What is your favorite WWII Airplane?

[EarlJam]

Mine is the Douglas Dauntless dive bomber pictured in my avatar.

It kicked butt at Midway in 1942 and quite frankly, I want one.

I think it's a pretty airplane. I like airplanes.

-EarlJam

[DukeUsul]

P-38 Lightning. I've thought that thing was just bad-looking since I was a kid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lockheed_P-38J_Lightning_-_1.jpg

[EarlJam]

P-38 Lightning. I've thought that thing was just bad-looking since I was a kid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lockheed_P-38J_Lightning_-_1.jpg

Oh snap. That's one of my favorites too! The Japanese pilots named it "The Forked Devil" or something like that because of it's twin fuselage and high kill rate.

-EJ

[2535Miles]

Mine is the PBY Catalina.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/PBY_Catalina_landing.jpg

My Grandpa (the bane of Lenny Wirtz's existence) flew this plane. I'm trying to find a great shot of Grandpa in front of his plane on a runway in Gibraltar. Until then, just imagine this dapper gentlemen perched in front of his plane. What a man!

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/long1118/grandpa.jpg

[colchar]

Mine are the Supermarine Spitfire which played such a huge role for the British (but, contrary to popular belief, it was the Hurricane that played the biggest role in the Battle of Britain) and the Avro Lancaster which enabled the British to strike back at the Germans much more effectively than any previous bomber had.

[Shammrog]

At the risk of sounding cliche, I have to go with the P-51 Mustang. Far ahead of its time, it was probably the first "air superiority fighter," which, apart from its own legend, also helped define the archetype for successive generations of fighter aircraft.

(I also like the B-17. Mainly because I think it was a cool and beautiful aircraft. I built a model of one as a kid. Also - it seems to me to be the classic "warplane" - like you would draw it in a cartoon of Coyote bombing Road Runner.)

[Lavabe]

In terms of its impact on technology, the ME-262 jet is worthy of consideration.

In terms of style, the P-38, followed by the P-51.

[wilson]

World War II? That was Spartans against Trojans, right?

You people are old.

[Lavabe]

World War II? That was Spartans against Trojans, right?

You people are old.

Thanks for reminding me.;)

[killerleft]

The B-17. My dad was a tailgunner on one of those bombers. His plane, the "How Soon?", once returned from a mission over Germany on one engine. By the time they got back to England, they had jettisoned everything that could be torn off the plane that wasn't needed to fly. Machine guns, the ball turret, seats, everything! I was awed by this story, which was written up in the local Bedford paper and put in a kind of "yearbook" type deal my dad brought home.

[Olympic Fan]

It was actually the Germans who nicknamed the P-38 as the "fork-tailed devil"

Funny, because in the European theater, the Lightning was largely used as a ground-support weapon and not (as it was designed) as a long-range interceptor.

On the other hand, the P-51 Mustang, the most advanced fighter of the war (except for the German jets and rocket-planes) was designed as a ground support weapon, but became a great long-range interceptor when they replaced the American Allison engine with a British Merlin engine.

The P-38 did have a lot of aerial success in the Pacific. The two top American aces in the war flew Lightnings in the SW Pacific -- Bong (40 kills) and McGuire (38). Lightnings also made the long-range intercept of Yamamoto's plane (although there's still debate as to whether Thomas Lamphier or Rex Barber actually got the guy who planned Pearl Harbor).

Surprised no votes for the Corsair (with its gull wings). Cool plane. I also kind of like the British Mosquito, the fastest prop-driven plane of the war -- built almost entirely of playwood!

But I think I'll cast my vote for two workhorse planes that never get their due -- the P-47 Thunderbolt ("Jugs" was the largest single-engine fighter of the war and a really effective plane as an interceptor and as a fighter-bomber) and the F6F Hellcat, which had the highest kill ratio of any fighter from any country in the war.

(And, yes, I'm old!)

[DukieInKansas]

I have to go with the B-17 as I've met the people working on restoring one in Urbana, OH. (Also, I know very little about the planes of WW II.) It was interesting to see the work they are doing and hear about some of the vets that have visited and shared their stories. You can see the work they are doing here: http://www.b17project.com/

[Fish80]

P-51, P-38, B-17.

May dad was a navigator on B-17s. I've always thought the P-51 and P-38 were very cool and built models of each as a kid. Later on, I liked the Cessna 337 Skymaster because of it's twin tail configuation.

[bdh21]

I always liked the "George (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawanishi_N1K-J)." Although am I allowed to pick a plane from the other side?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Kawanishi_N1K2-J_050317-F-1234P-015.jpg/300px-Kawanishi_N1K2-J_050317-F-1234P-015.jpg

[captmojo]

Hellcats were hard to beat, but the B-17 won the war in Europe.

My dad was an 8th Army Air Corps B-17 ground support crewman in England. Hearing loss kept him out of the skies and relegated him to the ground.

[captmojo]

I have to go with the B-17 as I've met the people working on restoring one in Urbana, OH. (Also, I know very little about the planes of WW II.) It was interesting to see the work they are doing and hear about some of the vets that have visited and shared their stories. You can see the work they are doing here: http://www.b17project.com/

I also have a friend living in Urbana. He was an engineer for International Harvester. I should ask what he may know about this. He might be insightful to the group as far as interpretation of blueprints and such.

Wait. I don't know these folks but I do know him....Maybe this might not be such a great idea. I'm not sure I'd want to do this to innocent people. :eek:

[Olympic Fan]

Hellcats were hard to beat, but the B-17 won the war in Europe.


I think that statement is wa-a-a-a-y over the top. In fact, strategic bombing played only a very minor role in the ultimate victory over Germany. German production actually rose consistently throughout the combined bomber offensive (the round-the-clock bombing by the British at night and the Americans during daylight) until the early months of 1945. And, as the British found out during the Battle of Britain, strategic bombing did not break the will of the people -- it, in fact, made it stronger.

The greatest impact that the Allied strategic bombing campaign actually had was in forcing the Germans to withdraw a large portion of their air defense assets from forward positions in France back to Germany in 1944. That allowed the Allies almost total tactical control of the air over the invasion beaches in Normandy and the battlefields in France. But those were largely P-47s and British Typhoons that provided the ground support that gave our ground forces -- the grunts who REALLY won the war in Europe -- their edge.

As for the B-17, I know it's an iconic plane, but the Avro Lancaster dropped far more tonnage of bombs and suffered lighter losses, possibily because it was designed as a night bomber. Despite its nickname, the B-17 didn't work as a day bomber unless heavily escorted. And most aviation experts I've read suggested the Consolidated B-24 Liberator was a more effective long-range bomber than the B-17.

[DukieInKansas]

I also have a friend living in Urbana. He was an engineer for International Harvester. I should ask what he may know about this. He might be insightful to the group as far as interpretation of blueprints and such.

Wait. I don't know these folks but I do know him....Maybe this might not be such a great idea. I'm not sure I'd want to do this to innocent people. :eek:

He might enjoy going out to see the work they are doing. I believe they are getting ready to build a new hangar so that the wings can be added. The website gives their hours and the webcam shows the activity going on at the time.

[EarlJam]

Mine is the PBY Catalina.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/PBY_Catalina_landing.jpg

My Grandpa (the bane of Lenny Wirtz's existence) flew this plane. I'm trying to find a great shot of Grandpa in front of his plane on a runway in Gibraltar. Until then, just imagine this dapper gentlemen perched in front of his plane. What a man!



Little did I know when I posted this I'd get so many great responses (and better stories). This is SO cool. I too love the PBY and recently built a model of it. I used to build model airplanes as a kid and at one time had over 200 of them. I recently rediscovered it as nearly a form of therapy. When I was a kid, I'd build any model in a day. Now it takes weeks. I take my time and get lost in it.

Anyway, love the PBY. My other favorites are ones that have been listed here (B-17, P-47, P-51). The Hellcat was a great plane. My ex-grandfather-in-law (is that a term?) flew them in the war.

When I was at Elon, I worked for a small community paper and for a Memorial Day edition, I interviewed a handful of WWII vets. I could talk to them for hours. What lives they led.

Did your grandfather go on to fly commercially? That is one of many ways WWII changed history. Many of the pilots (it still blows my mind that these were 20-year-old or younger kids flying these missions) went on to be commercial pilots.

Keep the stories coming!

-EarlJam

[EarlJam]

The B-17. My dad was a tailgunner on one of those bombers. His plane, the "How Soon?", once returned from a mission over Germany on one engine. By the time they got back to England, they had jettisoned everything that could be torn off the plane that wasn't needed to fly. Machine guns, the ball turret, seats, everything! I was awed by this story, which was written up in the local Bedford paper and put in a kind of "yearbook" type deal my dad brought home.

Is your dad still living? Do you still have access to that "yearbook?" I would love to read it if you can put elements of it on line.

A tailgunner on a B-17. Awesome.

Though sensationalized, did you like the movie Memphis Belle? I love it.

-EJ

[killerleft]

Is your dad still living? Do you still have access to that "yearbook?" I would love to read it if you can put elements of it on line.

A tailgunner on a B-17. Awesome.

Though sensationalized, did you like the movie Memphis Belle? I love it.

-EJ

No, my dad died in '99. He graduated from Elon in 1952. I think I can come up with the book, and if so, I'll let you know. He never really wanted to talk much about the war. Luckily, he didn't fly any missions until late '44, when German fighters were much less of a threat than anti-aircraft fire. It was flak that damaged the How Soon?.

I did love the movie Memphis Belle. Daddy said they did a very good job with the technical aspects of the film.

[EarlJam]

No, my dad died in '99. He graduated from Elon in 1952. I think I can come up with the book, and if so, I'll let you know. He never really wanted to talk much about the war. Luckily, he didn't fly any missions until late '44, when German fighters were much less of a threat than anti-aircraft fire. It was flak that damaged the How Soon?.

I did love the movie Memphis Belle. Daddy said they did a very good job with the technical aspects of the film.

Awesome, thanks. I too went to Elon. Was his plane silver? I know that after the Allies had gained air superiority and the Luftwaffe was all but vanquished, we stopped painting our bombers green and just left them bare metal. No need for camouflage.

I would LOVE to read that article on the "How Soon."

Thanks,

-EJ

[killerleft]

The only picture I have of the How Soon? shows only the nose of the plane and a small part aft of the cockpit. That part is indeed silver. I think some planes were both silver and green.

[colchar]

the B-17 won the war in Europe.



Only in combination with the Lancaster.

[colchar]

I think that statement is wa-a-a-a-y over the top. In fact, strategic bombing played only a very minor role in the ultimate victory over Germany. German production actually rose consistently throughout the combined bomber offensive (the round-the-clock bombing by the British at night and the Americans during daylight) until the early months of 1945. And, as the British found out during the Battle of Britain, strategic bombing did not break the will of the people -- it, in fact, made it stronger.



Your statements are not entirely correct. Sure, German production rose but, as Richard Overy pointed out, how much more would their production have increased if not for the bombing campaign? To say that strategic bombing played only a minor role in the Allied victory is inaccurate (it played a much bigger role - especially for the British - than bomb damage assesments and production figures can convey).

Actually, this isn't a debate that is going to be resolved here as we historians have been debating this one for a while - and the debate shows little sign of cooling off.

[Shammrog]

Your statements are not entirely correct. Sure, German production rose but, as Richard Overy pointed out, how much more would their production have increased if not for the bombing campaign? To say that strategic bombing played only a minor role in the Allied victory is inaccurate (it played a much bigger role - especially for the British - than bomb damage assesments and production figures can convey).

Actually, this isn't a debate that is going to be resolved here as we historians have been debating this one for a while - and the debate shows little sign of cooling off.


That's interesting colchar - are you a military historian?

(I was actually like 2 classes away from a 3rd major - in history - at Duke. I was (and still am) particularly interested in military history and the history of science and technology.)

Also - have to give an honorable mention here to the B-29. It came along very late in the war, but it is truly an AWESOME airplane. Huge, complex, technically advanced; a true mammoth. That was to be replaced by jet bombers in relatively short order with the ramp up of the Cold War... You can see a lot of B-29s on display at various places. Just saw one two weeks ago at the Warner-Robins air museum. Also, one parked in front of the Air Force Reserve base at Dobbins. Drive past it a few times a week. :)

[EarlJam]

Only in combination with the Lancaster.

Yes, but the Lancaster was ugly, and flew mostly at night and had no Nordon Bombsight. In short, compared to the B-17, it sucked.

-EJ

P.S. Just a kiddin'!

[EarlJam]

Also - have to give an honorable mention here to the B-29. It came along very late in the war, but it is truly an AWESOME airplane. Huge, complex, technically advanced; a true mammoth. That was to be replaced by jet bombers in relatively short order with the ramp up of the Cold War... You can see a lot of B-29s on display at various places. Just saw one two weeks ago at the Warner-Robins air museum. Also, one parked in front of the Air Force Reserve base at Dobbins. Drive past it a few times a week. :)

Ah yes, the Superfortress. It was rushed into production and many pilots were afraid to fly it because of many engine failures early on. Still, the destruction it laid on Japan through fire-bombing, then finally with the atomic bombs was mind-boggling. I don't know the exact numbers, but I read somewhere that fire-bombing killed far more than the atomic bombs. Is that true?

Also, it's ugly, but you got to give it up for the B-24 Liberator. Many an Axis oil refinery (sp?) was destroyed by this mutha. Also, the first bomber crew member to die in WWII was on a B-24 flying over Ploesti (sp) - Jesse Franks.

-EJ

[EarlJam]

This whole topic has me interested in wanting to do some more reading on the subject. Just went to Amazon and saw these two books - the latter being particularly interesting to me.

Has anyone here read them? Any feedback, other recommendations?

Untold Valor
http://www.amazon.com/Untold-Valor-Forgotten-Stories-American/dp/1574889990/ref=pd_sim_b_3/103-1389216-0531803

Safely Rest
http://www.amazon.com/Safely-Rest-David-P-Colley/dp/0425198359

-EJ

[Lavabe]

B-24 is great, but no discussion is complete without the B-25 Mitchell. These bombers were most noted for Jimmy Doolittle's raid.

Cheers,
Lavabe

[EarlJam]

B-24 is great, but no discussion is complete without the B-25 Mitchell. These bombers were most noted for Jimmy Doolittle's raid.

Cheers,
Lavabe

Excellent addition! The B-25's were also the plane used in the movie Catch-22. Great flick!

Also, I'll add another - the oft-forgotten-about B-26 Maurader (similar to the B-25 in size and configuration).

-EJ

[Indoor66]

B-24 is great, but no discussion is complete without the B-25 Mitchell. These bombers were most noted for Jimmy Doolittle's raid.

Cheers,
Lavabe

The B-25 was reputed to be one of the most difficult planes, of the era, to pilot. There were many instances of crashes due to pilot error.

[Faustus]

I think it was the Martin B-26 Marauder (or "Widowmaker") that had the early bad rap for dangerous bombers to fly due to instability during take-off and landing, but once figured out, did very well and ended up with the lowest % of losses in the war among bombers for the US Air Force.

A pretty good book to read as requested above is Masters of the Air by Donald Miller, Simon and Schuster Publishers, 2006, now in paperback, about the 8th Air Force bombers in WWII over Europe. It strongly argues that much of the strategic bombing of German factories and cities had relatively little impact vs. the really terrible losses in our personnel (the % of US losses was absolutely frightening until the final year). However, the disruption of transportation, esp. in railways and distribution areas in the German cities, turned out to be of huge importance even though it had never been High Command's primary focus..

I was walking on a road in a wooded area in eastern England I guess in 2000, 60th anniversary of the Battle of Britain, and all of a sudden zooming low overhead (only got to see a second or so being mostly in forest) was an honest to God Spitfire. Man, was that a cool sight.

[colchar]

That's interesting colchar - are you a military historian?



Yes, sort of. My major field was War & Society (with minor fields in modern Britain and modern Europe) but my dissertation involves British intelligence during the Cold War rather than anything military. So in a way I am a military historian but, at the same time, I am not. There, that should be clear as mud...

[colchar]

This whole topic has me interested in wanting to do some more reading on the subject. Just went to Amazon and saw these two books - the latter being particularly interesting to me.

Has anyone here read them? Any feedback, other recommendations?

Untold Valor
http://www.amazon.com/Untold-Valor-Forgotten-Stories-American/dp/1574889990/ref=pd_sim_b_3/103-1389216-0531803

Safely Rest
http://www.amazon.com/Safely-Rest-David-P-Colley/dp/0425198359

-EJ


Are you interested in popular histories or in more academic treatments of the subject?

[captmojo]

It should also be noted that the "resolve" of the German people was concentrated on the overseers of the production facilities, not the workers, as these folks were "resolved" not to be executed by said overseers for failure to produce. This was, after all, slave labor.

BTW, if the nazis (not worthy of capitalization) could produce a usable synthetic fuel while their refineries were blasted, why can't we come up with usable alternative today?

[Indoor66]

I think it was the Martin B-26 Marauder (or "Widowmaker") that had the early bad rap for dangerous bombers to fly due to instability during take-off and landing, but once figured out, did very well and ended up with the lowest % of losses in the war among bombers for the US Air Force.

I believe you are correct. Thanks for catching that.

[colchar]

It should also be noted that the "resolve" of the German people was concentrated on the overseers of the production facilities, not the workers, as these folks were "resolved" not to be executed by said overseers for failure to produce. This was, after all, slave labor.


Not all of them were slave labourers - many were just ordinary German civilians or civilians from other countries who were simply working for a living.




BTW, if the nazis (not worthy of capitalization) could produce a usable synthetic fuel while their refineries were blasted, why can't we come up with usable alternative today?

Their synthetic stuff wasn't very good but I have to admit that I have often wondered why they could do it but we can't.

[EarlJam]

Are you interested in popular histories or in more academic treatments of the subject?

Both. Actually, at this point, I'd love to read some "academic treatments."

Can you hook me up?

Thanks!

[colchar]

Both. Actually, at this point, I'd love to read some "academic treatments."

Can you hook me up?

Thanks!

I can't recommend anything specifically American but I can recommend some good academic histories of the air war/strategic bombing campaign.

Let me take a look when I get home from the Public Records Office later today and I'll post then (should be shortly after lunch your time).

[colchar]

Both. Actually, at this point, I'd love to read some "academic treatments."

Can you hook me up?

Thanks!


Below is a partial bibliography for the strategic bombing campaign. Also, if you`re interested, I have an essay I wrote for my major field which deals with the relevant historiography (historiography examines the answers that other historians have provided for a particular historical issue) and I can send it to you if you want as it sums up a lot of the debate in about 15 pages. I`ll warn you now it isn`t very good as I tossed it off in a night and took a position specifically designed to provoke a response from my supervisor but, regardless, it should still give you a bit of a grounding in the academic debate. PM me if you want me to email it to you.

Here is the bibliography:


Bidinian, Larry J. The Combined Allied Bombing Offensive Against the German Civilian 1942-1945. Lawrence, Kansas: Coronado Press, 1976.

Buckley, John. Air Power in the Age of Total War. Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1990.

Ellis, John. Brute Force: Allied Strategy and Tactics in the Second World War. New York: Viking, 1990.

Frankland, Noble. The Bombing Offensive Against Germany: Outlines and Perspectives. London: Faber and Faber, 1965.

Garrett, Stephen A. Ethics and Airpower in World War II: The British Bombing of German Cities. New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1993.

Levine, Alan J. The Strategic Bombing of Germany, 1940-1945. Westport, Connecticut: Praeger, 1992.

MacIsaac, David. Strategic Bombing in World War Two: The Story of the United States Strategic Bombing Survey. New York: Garland Publishing, 1976.

Milward, Alan S. The German Economy at War. London: Athlone Press, 1965.

Murray, Williamson and Allan R. Millet. A War To Be Won: Fighting the Second World War. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 2000.

Overy, Richard. The Air War 1939-1945. London: Europa Publications, 1980.

----------. Why the Allies Won. New York: W.W. Norton & Company, 1995.

Terraine, John. The Right of the Line: The Royal Air Force in the European War 1939-1945. London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1985.

ETA: Here are a couple more I just thought of (sorry, but I don't have the publication info for these handy):

Biddle, Tammi Davis. Rhetoric and Reality in Air Warfare: The Evolution of British and American Ideas about Strategic Bombing, 1914-1945.

Corum, James S. The Luftwaffe: Creating the Operational Air War 1918-1940.

Sherry, Michael. Rise of American Air Power: The Creation of Armageddon.

[killerleft]

To EarlJam:

Tried to email you thru DBR but you have exceeded your allowed tonnage! Short story: I can't find the "yearbook" First Over Germany. I'm still looking, but if I can't find it I'll try to order a paperback copy soon thru a 306th Bomb Group website.

Killerleft

[EarlJam]

To EarlJam:

Tried to email you thru DBR but you have exceeded your allowed tonnage! Short story: I can't find the "yearbook" First Over Germany. I'm still looking, but if I can't find it I'll try to order a paperback copy soon thru a 306th Bomb Group website.

Killerleft

Awesome, thanks a ton! And now my PM box is emptied and ready to receive.

Also, Colchar, thanks for the bibs! I'm definitely going to look some of those up!

-EarlJam

[EarlJam]

Wow. Talk about relevant (well, sort of).

The infamous bombing raids over................Orlando?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/30/backyard.bombs/index.html

-EJ

[Uncle Drew]

I have to admit I am biased about my favorite WWII plane. My father was in the US Army Air Corps and stationed in England durring the war. While he wasn't a pilot when it came time to get pilots and gunners ready along with loading the bombs he had to assist. There is a photo of him and buddies posing in front of a B-17 at my moms I'll have to show Earl some time.

Sad story, one of my fathers best buddies was a bottom gunner on a B-17. Call it bad engineering, but the bottom gunner on the plane had to be put into the canopy and raised up to the bottom of the airplane and locked in place. There was no way for him to enter the plane and had to wait until someone let him out when they landed. (Later editions of the plane included a door down into the canopy from the plane.) Anyway after a particularly rough bombing raid over Germany the B-17 my dads buddy was in had taken a lot of damage. As they neared the field the pilot tried to lower the landing gear but one side wouldn't drop. They couldn't land on one wheel and knew they were going to have to come in belly up. So the pilot was forced to fly around the field for an hour to use up as much fuel as possible to deter an explosion once they landed. The pilot and everyone on board along with my dads buddy knew when they landed the bottom gunner would be crushed to death by the weight of the plane but they had no choice. (I asked my dad why they couldn't land in the ocean, but they still wouldn't have been able to get to him under the plane in the water and set him free.) That had to be a long hour for everyone on board especialy my dads friend. But he had his time to make peace with God before the end came. That generation considered it an act of pride to die for your country. If something similar happened today the family would sue and there would be a congressional inquiry about the whole thing.
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh51/williamglatta/Dad1.jpg

Posted this for Earl and Duke PA, my dad played baseball for Elon and the Burlington Indians. Even made it to the Cleveland Indians for a week when their shortstop went down with injurry.

[Uncle Drew]

No, my dad died in '99. He graduated from Elon in 1952. I think I can come up with the book, and if so, I'll let you know. He never really wanted to talk much about the war. Luckily, he didn't fly any missions until late '44, when German fighters were much less of a threat than anti-aircraft fire. It was flak that damaged the How Soon?.

I did love the movie Memphis Belle. Daddy said they did a very good job with the technical aspects of the film.

Killer as both our dads were in the US Army Air Corps in England I thought I might ask you. Have you any sources that could tell what base your dad or my dad were stationed durring the war and where they were located. I had been planning a trip to tour the UK and I wanted to visit where his base was even if it is now a strip mall or row of condos.

My dad and his buddies were out playing baseball often and they would hear buzz bombs going over and even take bets on when they would fall. (For those who don't know they fell from the sky when they ran out of fuel.) He said when the Germans came out with those %#$#% rockets, when you heard one coming you hit the deck and prayed.

[killerleft]

Killer as both our dads were in the US Army Air Corps in England I thought I might ask you. Have you any sources that could tell what base your dad or my dad were stationed durring the war and where they were located. I had been planning a trip to tour the UK and I wanted to visit where his base was even if it is now a strip mall or row of condos.

My dad and his buddies were out playing baseball often and they would hear buzz bombs going over and even take bets on when they would fall. (For those who don't know they fell from the sky when they ran out of fuel.) He said when the Germans came out with those %#$#% rockets, when you heard one coming you hit the deck and prayed.

I know my dad was stationed at Thurleigh near Bedford. There are quite a few websites devoted to the Eighth Air Force in England. If you know his Group and squadron designations I'm sure you can find out where he was based. There were many air bases, as you can imagine. Emailing someone at an Eighth Air Force website might be the surest way to find out.

[colchar]

Killer as both our dads were in the US Army Air Corps in England I thought I might ask you. Have you any sources that could tell what base your dad or my dad were stationed durring the war and where they were located. I had been planning a trip to tour the UK and I wanted to visit where his base was even if it is now a strip mall or row of condos.



What squadron was he in and when was he stationed in England?

[Uncle Drew]

What squadron was he in and when was he stationed in England?

I honestly have no idea. He may have told me but I'm bad with numbers. I'll have to look at some of his old WWII belongings and try to figure that out. I do know letters home were censored in case they fell into enemy hands so name of the base wouldn't have been in there. My dad being a practical joker sent my grandmother a letter and all but maybe ten words had been cut out of the letter. The first line "Hi moma", then about midway through, "I'm doing well", and the signiture, "I love you" and his name. My grandmother thought he'd gotten involved in some top secret mission and didn't know until 1946 when he got home it was a practical joke.

I know my dad did his training in Tishamingo (sp) Oklahoma. And I know Elizabeth came by the base to thank the American GI's once, I don't know if she was queen yet. Burlington is a small town and oddly enough there was another guy on my dads base from Burlington NC, but I can't remember his name.

[colchar]

I honestly have no idea. He may have told me but I'm bad with numbers. I'll have to look at some of his old WWII belongings and try to figure that out. I do know letters home were censored in case they fell into enemy hands so name of the base wouldn't have been in there. My dad being a practical joker sent my grandmother a letter and all but maybe ten words had been cut out of the letter. The first line "Hi moma", then about midway through, "I'm doing well", and the signiture, "I love you" and his name. My grandmother thought he'd gotten involved in some top secret mission and didn't know until 1946 when he got home it was a practical joke.

I know my dad did his training in Tishamingo (sp) Oklahoma. And I know Elizabeth came by the base to thank the American GI's once, I don't know if she was queen yet. Burlington is a small town and oddly enough there was another guy on my dads base from Burlington NC, but I can't remember his name.


Figure out as much as you can and give me the info. In case you don't know, I'm in London right now doing research for my PhD dissertation and I spend most days at the National Archives. I could easily look up any info available there, copy it, and send it along to you.

Also, I might be heading to the Imperial War Museum for some research (if not, I'll be visiting it anyway) and I could check their files to see what they have (they probably wouldn't have much, the archives would be a better place to search).

[Uncle Drew]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh51/williamglatta/Dad2.jpg
Okay I found the photo I was looking for, my dad is on the bottom row far left. I have no idea what year this picture was taken, and I can't tell if that is a B-17 or a B-25.

Oh and for the record my dads favorite plane was the P-38.

[Lavabe]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh51/williamglatta/Dad2.jpg
Okay I found the photo I was looking for, my dad is on the bottom row far left. I have no idea what year this picture was taken, and I can't tell if that is a B-17 or a B-25.

Oh and for the record my dads favorite plane was the P-38.

I'd bet B-17, as the B-25 has wheels under each engine AND under the cockpit. The plane in the image is tilted up, suggesting a REAR wheel. The B-25 also lacks the front gunner's turret (seen in your image). Finally, the B-25 has guns where the wing meets the fuselage. The plane in the image lacks these guns.

Cheers,
Lavabe

[EarlJam]

That sir, is a B-17G. The "G" versions had the front nose turret gun. And THAT my friend, is one AWESOME picture!

Here's an EarlJam salute to your dad. He's a hero and I'm gonna hoist one in his honor this weekend. What a bad-arse!

-EJ


http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh51/williamglatta/Dad2.jpg
Okay I found the photo I was looking for, my dad is on the bottom row far left. I have no idea what year this picture was taken, and I can't tell if that is a B-17 or a B-25.

Oh and for the record my dads favorite plane was the P-38.

[Uncle Drew]

Earl what is the G version? Is that plane specific to a certain year? I'm trying to get a rough idea when the photo was taken.

[Uncle Drew]

And Earl when we were little in Burlington City Park they used to have an old abandoned WWII airplane sitting on the ground for the kids to play in. Eventually someone got cut on a piece of metal inside the plane and the city scrapped it so not to get sued. Do you remember that and what kind of plane was it? It had a top turret, I'd bet it was a B-17 or a B-25.

And I remember my dad telling me about flying in some plane that had a "cannon" in the front of it. He said when the cannon fired you could feel the plane stop in midair and then start going forward again.

[colchar]

And I remember my dad telling me about flying in some plane that had a "cannon" in the front of it. He said when the cannon fired you could feel the plane stop in midair and then start going forward again.

As they managed to make better and better planes, many of them had cannons instead of machine guns (or a combination of the two). But don't think of a cannon as what you would see on some old Civil War battlefield - they were larger than the machine guns but not by much. The Brits ended up with cannons in the Spitfire (replaced the machine guns or, at least, some of the machine guns) and they didn't need to redesign the wing as the cannons were small enough to fit into the existing wing design. Some commanders, such as Douglas Bader (if you want to hear an inspiring story read his - especially the Paul Brickhill original called Reach for the Sky), were against the cannons because they believed that cannons would cause pilots to shoot from further away than they would with machine guns thus causing them to be more inaccurate. I can't remember the statistics well enough to know whether Bader and those who thought like him were right or wrong, but the controversy did exist (it was something along the lines of the 'Big Wing' controversy from the Battle of Britain).

[EarlJam]

Earl what is the G version? Is that plane specific to a certain year? I'm trying to get a rough idea when the photo was taken.

The B-17G was one of if not the last versions made. I would guess that photo was taken in '44 or more likely '45 - the last year of the war.

It looks like iit's silver too. The Americans stopped painting the planes green late in the war because we had won air superiority and there was no need for camouflage.

My vote? Early 1945.

-EJ

[Uncle Drew]

As they managed to make better and better planes, many of them had cannons instead of machine guns (or a combination of the two). But don't think of a cannon as what you would see on some old Civil War battlefield - they were larger than the machine guns but not by much. The Brits ended up with cannons in the Spitfire (replaced the machine guns or, at least, some of the machine guns) and they didn't need to redesign the wing as the cannons were small enough to fit into the existing wing design. Some commanders, such as Douglas Bader (if you want to hear an inspiring story read his - especially the Paul Brickhill original called Reach for the Sky), were against the cannons because they believed that cannons would cause pilots to shoot from further away than they would with machine guns thus causing them to be more inaccurate. I can't remember the statistics well enough to know whether Bader and those who thought like him were right or wrong, but the controversy did exist (it was something along the lines of the 'Big Wing' controversy from the Battle of Britain).

Much thanks for the history lesson and specifics. My dad told me all kinds of war stories growing up. But he passed away in 1990 when I was 19 so even though I remember a lot of things specifics escape me. We still have a German Walther P 38 with a nazi emblem in the attic in an oil rag my dad bought off the black market. And even though my dad didn't smoke he bought a cigarette case made from airplane scrap metal by an Italian prisoner of war. Of course cigarettes had no filter back in the day so it's to short to be of use today. But it's a nice piece of history to have around. I think the front side is supposed to be a mustang and the reverse I guess a battleship.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh51/williamglatta/CigaretteCase1.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh51/williamglatta/CigaretteCase2.jpg

If memory serves me correctly the GI's and POW's were given an alotment of smokes, and since my dad didn't smoke he used them to trade for the cigarette case and gun.

[EarlJam]

Perhaps odd, but hey, I AM EarlJam.....here is a photo of one of the models I've built (my favorite - The Dauntless) descending on the USS Yorktown - another model I built (144/scale), the planes were a britch to put together!!!

368

A couple more of the ones I've built to come; one in honor of Latta's Dad (B-17) and the other a PBY Catalina (both beautiful airplanes)!

-EarlJam

[EarlJam]

Latta and other "B-17 posters." This one's for you. Still have some touch up jobs to do on it.....

Latta, did you know the name of the bomber? I know another poster said it was the "How Soon?"

I want to name this bomber after one of those two.

369

-EarlJam

[EarlJam]

My Hellcat (1:32 scale) - complete with detailed gun-well of three .50 caliber machine guns in right wing. My grandfather flew these in the Pacific...

371

-Earljam

[Uncle Drew]

Earl,


Back in the late 90's the Times News did an article of a WWII vet who lived in Graham that did models. Apparently he was retired and loved putting the extra details into each piece. Anyway, I've seen battleship models and aircraft models. This guy had handcrafted an aircraft carrier to scale with the 20 or 30 planes he had put together. In his workshop he had the planes on deck, hanging from strings as if flying through the air and even attacking a small handcrafted island complete with US and Japanese soldiers doing battle. He even had Japanese and US panes dogfighting. It was more of a museum piece in my opinion. I have no idea the gentlemans name nor if he's still alive but his work put to shame any models I have ever put together.

Oh and if your grandfather did battle in the Pacific I salute him. God bless that entire generation. The Pacific campains were hell on a whole different level.

And before I forget I have a former uncle down your way who has flown his own plane for years. Used to bring the family up and land at our airport all the time. I think he is still flying but I know his son (my cousin) was going through the ropes of getting his certification and all that. If you want I can give you his e-mail or ask him for pointers on getting things done cheaper perhaps. Just let me know via e-mail. My cousin lives in Cumming and my uncle lives I think in Valdosta.

[killerleft]

[QUOTE=EarlJam;164311]Latta and other "B-17 posters." This one's for you. Still have some touch up jobs to do on it.....

Latta, did you know the name of the bomber? I know another poster said it was the "How Soon?"

I want to name this bomber after one of those two.

Thanks for remembering the How Soon? But I don't know that you'd want to do her nose art. It only consists of rather crude lettering with the question mark larger that the letters and in the middle of the words. Then again, it would "authenticate" the model.

[jimsumner]

FWIW, the American Life TV network shows episodes of the 1960s series "12 O'Clock High" Tuesday nights at 10 Eastern.

[colchar]

Killer as both our dads were in the US Army Air Corps in England I thought I might ask you. Have you any sources that could tell what base your dad or my dad were stationed durring the war and where they were located. I had been planning a trip to tour the UK and I wanted to visit where his base was even if it is now a strip mall or row of condos.



Do you know which group your dad was attached to (ie. which bomber group)? I came across a book the other day that might be of interest to you depending, of course, on which group he was attached to and if it is the right one, I can give you the info for the book.

[EarlJam]

FWIW, the American Life TV network shows episodes of the 1960s series "12 O'Clock High" Tuesday nights at 10 Eastern.

Wow! Thanks Jim. This was my late dad's favorite show!

I'll tune in.

Thanks again!

-EJ