Jennings considering going overseas

[El_Diablo]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3454157

An interesting article about Arizona's incoming PG recruit. If he doesn't become eligible to play in the NCAA, he's thinking about going overseas for a year. It makes sense if he knows he wants to go to the NBA a year from now, which (he makes abundantly clear) is what he intends to do even if he ends up a Wildcat this season.

[JasonEvans]

Aren't there rumors of someone doing this every year? I recall talk that OJ Mayo would go to Europe for a year instead of playing in the NBA. I seem to recall a rumor that LeBron would play in Europe for $10 million rather than play his senior season of college basketball -- or something like that.

Granted, Jennings situation is a little different as he is looking at not being NCAA elligible and also is committed to a program that is in utter chaos that he may want to avoid but the bottom line about rumors like this is -- I'll believe it when I see it.

-Jason "have I missed it or is no one here talking about the lunacy that is Lute trashing his former recruit who is now going to Tennessee?" Evans

[Uncle Drew]

This doesn't really pertain to Duke basketball, at least not in the immediate future. But by now I'm sure most everyone has heard the situation involving Brandon Jennings. Should he qualify he may suit up for Arizona this year. All he would need are two D's in the fall semester to play and then bolt for the NBA. However whether he qualifies or not he is thinking (right or wrong) about playing a year overseas (if a team will actualy sign him knowing he is one and done) and entering the next NBA draft. I recently read an article on Yahoo and this was a quote by the young man that struck a nerve with me....

“For a person that plays ball, our dream is to get to the NBA,” Jennings told The New York Times. “College is like, ‘OK, we’ll do this one year, but our real mind-set is that we’re trying to get to the league, take care of our families.’

It's not so much that he might actually be from a financially strained situation and actually want to help his family out. That I can certainly appreciate. But it seems every highschool player has their focus on the NBA (whether they have NBA talent or not) and college is a prison sentence before they are set free to hopefully make millions.

In the era before Bird and Magic made the NBA popular again I can remember never seeing a regular season game. And I remember one championship game (Sonics and Bullets) only being televised because it had gone to a seventh and final game. A ton of us here don't like the NBA game much and quite a few could care less who wins, loses and gets awarded insane contracts. But what happened to love of college basketball? Does that even exist anymore?

I can remember growing up playing in the backyard pretending to be Mike Gminski or later on Laettner. And I have no doubt kids grew up pretending to be Phil Ford, Michael Jordan, Ralph Sampson, Buck Williams, David Thompson etc. To me and I'm sure others the college game is more entertaining and dramatic than the NBA. In the NCAA's if you lose you go home. In the NBA you go home, but it's to your mansion to drive your Lamborghini.

It's hard to understand how todays generation thinks about anything. (God that makes me sound old saying that!) But is the average athlete in the ACC, particularly at Duke just viewing the whole college thing as a stepping stone now? There are recent Duke players like JJ and Grant Hill who I think would have played for Duke twelve years if eligability weren't an issue. And I firmly realize a lot of the recruits attending UNC, Duke and State are not from North Carolina and didn't grow up in the Tobbacco road hot bed. But as someone who has grown up eating, sleeping, drinking ACC basketball I can't help but wonder if the era when players want to attend a particular school because of their love for that school is gone. It seems like players decide to go to the school that will give the the best and fastest chance to turn pro now.

[CameronCrazy'11]

I totally understand what you're saying. I lived overseas for a lot of my life growing up, so I don't even really have a hometeam to follow. I don't watch the NBA all that much and when I do I usually just root for whichever team has a Duke player on the roster. I'll tune in for the playoffs and all that but I'd much prefer to watch a college game. All that being said, I really understand where these kids are coming from. I'm 19 and I love going to Duke and am having the time of my life. Still, if I had the chance to make millions of dollars a year doing something I loved, I'd probably leave college and do that. And there's nothing wrong with these players not going to college. At Duke our athletes actually have to take their classes seriously, but that's not the norm at top D-1 schools. It's not like these guys are going to need the skills they learned in whatever joke class they periodically attended for one term. Their careers are in basketball, and if they're good enough to go at 18, they should be able to just go to the NBA. College should be for the players who either need to get better or actually want the education and can seriously commit to it. You can't really blame the one-and-done players for not taking college seriously when they were forced into it. For me, it takes a lot of the fun out of college basketball. I'd rather watch Duke win its next national championship led by veteran players that I've followed over the years than by a star freshmen who I know is going to bolt.

[Channing]

and college is a prison sentence before they are set free to hopefully make millions.


Rashad McCants . . . Is that you??

Seriously though, I absolutely see where he is coming from. Especially for a kid like Jennings who either doesnt like school or just isn't very good at it. His options, as he sees them, are (a) become a millionaire and never worry about money again - buy whatever you want, whenever you want, and however many of those as you want. Be able to go back home and be the envy of everyone, or (b) go to college, run two a days, be a celebrity on campus - but that doesnt translate to the wallet (theoretically). Have tutors bugging you to go to class. Coaches bugging you to make sure you are staying eligible, and then go after option A.

Seems like an easy choice to me.

[Carlos]

It's actually not such an easy choice as that for a number of reasons.

First, few Euro teams are going to be that interested in spending any kind of money on a guy with no professional experience who is only going to be there one year. Jason's reference to LeBron earlier is the exception to the rule because James was such a physical specimen even as a HS player.

For this to make sense for a European team the guy they would be bringing in for a year would have to be someone who could absolutely make an immediate impact. At the level where guys are actually making decent money in the European leagues, the players are guys who have played in the junior programs. Or, to be succinct about it - I'm not sure how much demand there would be in Europe for a guy who hasn't played any professional basketball and would only want to be with you for a single year.

That's just looking at things from the European team's perspective. From the player's perspective, how many 18-year-old people are prepared to move to a country where they don't speak the language and they don't know anyone. It's easy to glorify the life of an American living tax free and expense free for a year while playing in Europe. But if you want a look at the other side of that equation then pick up a copy of Paul Shirley's book "Can I Still Keep My Jersey" which chronicles his life as a basketball vagabond in both the NBA and Europe.

The other thing to consider is that for a Euro team, there's very little incentive to put much effort into player development for a guy that's only going to be there one year. Pro basketball certainly has the resources to develop players. But from a business perspective do you allocate those resources to the guy who is signed to a 5-year contract or the guy that you know gone at the end of the year.

Player development is different in college because you may actually get another year out of a player and, even if that player leaves and gets drafted highly, the college basketball program still benefits because that exposure helps when recruiting.

In the end, while Jennings is likely enjoying the buzz this has created, I would be very surprised if he actually followed through on this option.

[kramerbr]

I think Coach K hits it right on the nose in the following article:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_9796341

"Some of those kids, to be quite frank, don't need to be students," Krzyzewski said. "That's why I'm against the rule (that prevents going straight to the NBA). LeBron and Kobe are the two best players in the NBA. They're articulate and brilliant, and they didn't need to go to college. ... I don't know why that opportunity would be denied. ... We should respect the individuals' right to have that chance and the school's right to have students."

[camion]

I think Coach K hits it right on the nose in the following article:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_9796341

"Some of those kids, to be quite frank, don't need to be students," Krzyzewski said. "That's why I'm against the rule (that prevents going straight to the NBA). LeBron and Kobe are the two best players in the NBA. They're articulate and brilliant, and they didn't need to go to college. ... I don't know why that opportunity would be denied. ... We should respect the individuals' right to have that chance and the school's right to have students."

That sounds about right. I'm going to check over at IC though and see why, since K said it, it must be wrong and evil. ;)

[JasonEvans]

The baseball model is the way to go. If you want to become a pro straight out of high school -- got for it. If you cannot make it in the NBA, then the Developmental League or perhaps a foreign league is a viable option.

But, if you want to go to school then commit to 3 years of school and really unpack your bags and be a part of the learning process.

I think that if the NBA adopted this it would lead to a more legit Developmental/Minor league, which would be a good thing for basketball. College ball will survive and thrive regardless of whether some kids opt directly for the NBA/DL. I feel it hurts college ball far more when kids show up for one season and bolt to the league.

-Jason "a rule like this would not lead to wholesale defections of all the top 25 players in high school, I predict" Evans

[guybrush]

It's actually not such an easy choice as that for a number of reasons.

First, few Euro teams are going to be that interested in spending any kind of money on a guy with no professional experience who is only going to be there one year. Jason's reference to LeBron earlier is the exception to the rule because James was such a physical specimen even as a HS player.

For this to make sense for a European team the guy they would be bringing in for a year would have to be someone who could absolutely make an immediate impact. At the level where guys are actually making decent money in the European leagues, the players are guys who have played in the junior programs. Or, to be succinct about it - I'm not sure how much demand there would be in Europe for a guy who hasn't played any professional basketball and would only want to be with you for a single year.

That's just looking at things from the European team's perspective. From the player's perspective, how many 18-year-old people are prepared to move to a country where they don't speak the language and they don't know anyone. It's easy to glorify the life of an American living tax free and expense free for a year while playing in Europe. But if you want a look at the other side of that equation then pick up a copy of Paul Shirley's book "Can I Still Keep My Jersey" which chronicles his life as a basketball vagabond in both the NBA and Europe.

The other thing to consider is that for a Euro team, there's very little incentive to put much effort into player development for a guy that's only going to be there one year. Pro basketball certainly has the resources to develop players. But from a business perspective do you allocate those resources to the guy who is signed to a 5-year contract or the guy that you know gone at the end of the year.

Player development is different in college because you may actually get another year out of a player and, even if that player leaves and gets drafted highly, the college basketball program still benefits because that exposure helps when recruiting.

In the end, while Jennings is likely enjoying the buzz this has created, I would be very surprised if he actually followed through on this option.

Absolutely right, no one would sign a 18 years old PG here b/c we need players ready to play, the system of leagues are different in Europe rather than ncaa-NBA american system: a bad season could send you in a second league, with a big loss of incomes so teams need full developed players.

Jennings maybe could be a factor in bad leagues such as swiss or austrian but there salaries are ridiculous.

[monkey]

It's easy to glorify the life of an American living tax free and expense free for a year while playing in Europe.

Heh - if only it were that easy to escape the long-reach of the American taxman ... Uncle Sam, unlike virtually every other country that I'm aware of, taxes American citizens on worldwide income, not just income earned in the US. Actually, unless there is a double-taxation treaty in place, he may get to enjoy the glory of being taxed twice (once by the local jurisdiction, once by the US) on the same income.

[Billy Dat]

....among other entities turned College Basketball into huge business. I know many are upset that today's young players are so jaded, but how can they be any other way? From the time they first flash that special talent, the long arm of the sneaker companies are there to sponsor their AAU teams, fly them around the country and, behind the scenes, cut deals to funnel them to one team or another. These kids aren't dumb, they see everyone getting paid...their AAU coaches, their high school coaches, the college coaches recruiting them, the agents trying to woo them, their parents, uncles, cousins, etc. Why would it be about anything BUT money to them? Along the way, many/most get preferred treatment in school because of their skill so studying is not made a priority, staying eligible is, and the two concepts are barely related. For every Sean Dockery who saw college/Duke as a haven from the tough neighborhood he grew up in and a stepping stone to "the American Dream", there are 9 others who distrust the whole system - and it is hard to blame them. I, too, wish every top high schooler played college ball, but I don't blame them for not wanting to go to college, especially now that the internet allows every citizen with a tape recorder, digital camera and internet connection to be a potential Woodward and Bernstein exposing pay-offs, gifts, etc. A lot of guys who used to choose to go to college probably went because they were paid to (e.g. Chris Webber).

[Channing]

Heh - if only it were that easy to escape the long-reach of the American taxman ... Uncle Sam, unlike virtually every other country that I'm aware of, taxes American citizens on worldwide income, not just income earned in the US. Actually, unless there is a double-taxation treaty in place, he may get to enjoy the glory of being taxed twice (once by the local jurisdiction, once by the US) on the same income.

I believe a foreign tax credit would protect against this.

[monkey]

I believe a foreign tax credit would protect against this.

Hmm. I haven't worked overseas in a few years now, but my understanding was the foreign tax credit ran out. If he is making 200,000 overseas or more, as I have seen alluded to in stories, the tax credit would only cover a fraction.

[Channing]

Hmm. I haven't worked overseas in a few years now, but my understanding was the foreign tax credit ran out. If he is making 200,000 overseas or more, as I have seen alluded to in stories, the tax credit would only cover a fraction.

Trying not to take this too off topic (as the point is basically irrelevant to the discussion), but sections 901(a) (direct credit) and 911 (exemption from gross income) deal with double taxation of US citizens abroad.

[yancem]

The baseball model is the way to go. If you want to become a pro straight out of high school -- got for it. If you cannot make it in the NBA, then the Developmental League or perhaps a foreign league is a viable option.

But, if you want to go to school then commit to 3 years of school and really unpack your bags and be a part of the learning process.

I think that if the NBA adopted this it would lead to a more legit Developmental/Minor league, which would be a good thing for basketball. College ball will survive and thrive regardless of whether some kids opt directly for the NBA/DL. I feel it hurts college ball far more when kids show up for one season and bolt to the league.

-Jason "a rule like this would not lead to wholesale defections of all the top 25 players in high school, I predict" Evans

I've long been a proponent of the "baseball model". One point that seems to get over looked is that a true development league provides teams with greater roster flexibility due to having x number of slots in the D-league. This is good for veterans as well as the young kids. Instead of having inexperienced and non productive kids taking up roster spots and riding the pine, you can have a veteran on the bench that can provide at least a few productive minutes a game. Meanwhile the kids are getting real game experience. When the youngsters develop to the nba level, sure they get called up and the veteran looses his spot but at least he got to play longer than without the D-league. McRoberts being sent to the D-league for much of last season is a good example. He wasn't producing for Portland so they sent him where he could get some minutes. Of course it is up to the younger players to use the time wisely, but that will become less of an issue as more teams utilize this approach.

To take the "baseball model" 1 step further, I would also like to see a clause in the cba that would put a different salary structure ($100-150k) for kids just out of highschool while learning the ropes in the D-league. Once they are called up for more than a 10 day contract or so their normal rookie contract would kick in. I like this idea for 2 reasons 1) 18-19 year old kids wouldn't have unlimited budgets so they would have to learn how to budget a little bit and 2) the nba franchises wouldn't have to shell out millions for players that are basically practice players. It also might be a little more incentive for the more academically gifted to go to school and enjoy playing college ball instead of riding 3rd class in the D-league for a few years.