Quality of life and salary

[Acymetric]

Ok. I'm in the process of mulling possible future career possibilities, and had previously been set on engineering (until I realized I didn't like it at all. at least not electrical or mechanical). Anyways, I've been trying to come up with other possibilities, but my biggest problem is getting hung up on the difference in income since a lot of jobs don't pay as well as a lot of engineering jobs (I'm not interested in becoming a doctor or lawyer, so that knocks of those two as well). Now I don't think I need to be making six figures to consider myself successful, but I'm not really sure what kind of things you can do with certain levels of income.

As in. I know what its like to have the level of income I grew up with, but what kind of things can you afford with an income of 80,000; 60,000; or 40,000 just to cover a good range? I know it depends on a number of factors, like geographic location, financial responsibility, and such, but is there any way to figure out say, what kind of house you might be able to afford, and what kind of leisure activities and vacations can you afford?

Is there a good site for information like this?

[DevilAlumna]

Go for an MBA! :D

With an engineering background, an MBA from a top 25 school, and a flair (or at least a willingness to try) for marketing and/or strategy, you can readily get a starting salary in the $100k range (more, if you've got more than 5 years of career experience,) and move up nicely from there. Ymo may be able/willing to discuss the EE/ME to MBA path.

Now, whether the cost of taking off 2 years to attend (and pay for) a top 25 b-school is worth the salary coming out depends entirely on what you're making now.

But to answer your question -- is there a source out there for this info, like a quality of life calculator, I'd doubt it. But you can talk to people you know, friends and family, and see how they're doing and what niceties they can afford.

It's hard to judge "happiness" (or probably more appropriate, "contentment," as happy is a pretty fleeting emotion) without knowing someone's values and how they compare to your own. So, first you probably need to assess what's more or less important to you, in a relative way. Sometimes this is as easy as figuring out things like, taking a vacation every year is worth more to you than a new car; living in an a bigger house you can afford may be worth an extra half-hour commute.

You do have to figure out the "big ticket" items like rent/mortgage, insurance, transpo, savings, and if there's a spousal unit, whether there will be 1 or 2 incomes, and how that might be impacted by children. There may be a "basic budget" template out there that has those things in place, and you can add/edit based on location costs of living comparisons, and choices of lifestyle. I'll look around and post back if I find anything.

[2535Miles]

Ok. I'm in the process of mulling possible future career possibilities, and had previously been set on engineering (until I realized I didn't like it at all. at least not electrical or mechanical). Anyways, I've been trying to come up with other possibilities, but my biggest problem is getting hung up on the difference in income since a lot of jobs don't pay as well as a lot of engineering jobs (I'm not interested in becoming a doctor or lawyer, so that knocks of those two as well). Now I don't think I need to be making six figures to consider myself successful, but I'm not really sure what kind of things you can do with certain levels of income.

As in. I know what its like to have the level of income I grew up with, but what kind of things can you afford with an income of 80,000; 60,000; or 40,000 just to cover a good range? I know it depends on a number of factors, like geographic location, financial responsibility, and such, but is there any way to figure out say, what kind of house you might be able to afford, and what kind of leisure activities and vacations can you afford?

Is there a good site for information like this?
http://www.salary.com does a decent job. You could also try talking with a professional head hunter/recruiter to get their input. Their livelihood depends on their ability to understand and place candidates based upon the factors you've mentioned.

[Deslok]

Ok. I'm in the process of mulling possible future career possibilities, and had previously been set on engineering (until I realized I didn't like it at all. at least not electrical or mechanical). Anyways, I've been trying to come up with other possibilities, but my biggest problem is getting hung up on the difference in income since a lot of jobs don't pay as well as a lot of engineering jobs (I'm not interested in becoming a doctor or lawyer, so that knocks of those two as well). Now I don't think I need to be making six figures to consider myself successful, but I'm not really sure what kind of things you can do with certain levels of income.

As in. I know what its like to have the level of income I grew up with, but what kind of things can you afford with an income of 80,000; 60,000; or 40,000 just to cover a good range? I know it depends on a number of factors, like geographic location, financial responsibility, and such, but is there any way to figure out say, what kind of house you might be able to afford, and what kind of leisure activities and vacations can you afford?

Is there a good site for information like this?

Well, lets see... on about $60,000 a year I'm about to take a vaction that will include stops in 15 different countries on 3 different continents, all flights business class. Mind you I spend next to nothing most of the year( have no dependents or anything), but I'd say find a job you love, and the rest will take care of itself. Just FYI, I teach internationally(so my salary is actually a bit nicer than it initially appears, I technically make only a bit over $40,000, but have my housing taken care of, pay no taxes, have various bonuses coming due when I leave here so in reality its more like I make closer $70k really). But mainly, if you don't like what you do, you probably won't be all that good at it(there might be something you'd rather do, heck, I'd prefer to play SS for the Boston Red Sox, but I haven't heard them come calling yet).

That's my thought anyway, take it for what its worth.

[EarlJam]

Ok. I'm in the process of mulling possible future career possibilities, and had previously been set on engineering (until I realized I didn't like it at all. at least not electrical or mechanical). Anyways, I've been trying to come up with other possibilities, but my biggest problem is getting hung up on the difference in income since a lot of jobs don't pay as well as a lot of engineering jobs (I'm not interested in becoming a doctor or lawyer, so that knocks of those two as well). Now I don't think I need to be making six figures to consider myself successful, but I'm not really sure what kind of things you can do with certain levels of income.

As in. I know what its like to have the level of income I grew up with, but what kind of things can you afford with an income of 80,000; 60,000; or 40,000 just to cover a good range? I know it depends on a number of factors, like geographic location, financial responsibility, and such, but is there any way to figure out say, what kind of house you might be able to afford, and what kind of leisure activities and vacations can you afford?

Is there a good site for information like this?

All I can say is, I took a 20% pay cut to go to work for a company I believe in and have been so much happier. As K would say, "Lead yourself with your heart and you can't go wrong."

-EJ

[Matches]

It all depends on your expenses. I assume you're unmarried and have no kids - those add a tremendous amount of strain to the ol' budget. I'll just say this - when I started work out of school I made $40,000 per year. I had rent, student loans, a car payment, some credit card debt, and month-to-month expenses, and I still had more money than I knew what to do with.

[blublood]

If you are a Duke grad, your perception of wealth is probably more skewed than you realize. (and I say that having had that hard bump back to reality after graduation!) $40,000/yr vaults you into the upper middle class in America. Most people raise families, send kids to college, etc. on around $35,000 or less. Of course that may be the median salary and not the average salary, but you get the idea. I had friends at Duke who turned down $55,000/yr salaries at Microsoft because "I'll never be able to live on that" which is crazy and kinda sickening when you really get down to it.

A lot depends on your frame of reference. If you run in circles where everybody has a BMW and takes vacations to Europe in the summer, then, yeah, you're going to feel poor if you don't. But that doesn't mean that you are.

[duke74]

Go for an MBA! :D

With an engineering background, an MBA from a top 25 school, and a flair (or at least a willingness to try) for marketing and/or strategy, you can readily get a starting salary in the $100k range (more, if you've got more than 5 years of career experience,) and move up nicely from there. Ymo may be able/willing to discuss the EE/ME to MBA path.



I can't comment on personal choices or what "fulfills" someone, but let me add a few quick points - I found that some of the most successful MBA students in my MBA class (Wharton '77) had an engineering background. The analytical approach they learned in their engineering studies really helped them, even though Wharton is not as quant oriented as, say, Chicago was.

Secondly, while I am not an expert, I suspect that $100K is on the VERY low side for an MBA from a "leading" school, especially if he/she is going into IBanking or consulting (Booz, McKinsey, etc) in a major business center (NY, Chicago, etc). Possibly the IBanking number has been affected by the current economic environment, but I don't have the facts...

All I know is that I started at my Big 4 (then Big 8) accounting firm at $17,500 in 1977 - this being a premium, no less, from the undergraduates' starting salaries of about $14,000. It was an entry point for me in business (marine geology at Duke!) and I viewed it as an investment in post graduate and LIFE experience. And I've never looked back. I've loved the challenge, the interaction with smart, dedicated and highly ethical people, the responsibilites I have been given, and the continual change in the profession. Certainly never boring.

[DevilDad]

While listening to the advice of these wise folks, please keep in mind the possibility of someday having to finance higher education (hopefully Duke) for your kids.:)

[Clipsfan]

I can't comment on personal choices or what "fulfills" someone, but let me add a few quick points - I found that some of the most successful MBA students in my MBA class (Wharton '77) had an engineering background. The analytical approach they learned in their engineering studies really helped them, even though Wharton is not as quant oriented as, say, Chicago was.

Secondly, while I am not an expert, I suspect that $100K is on the VERY low side for an MBA from a "leading" school, especially if he/she is going into IBanking or consulting (Booz, McKinsey, etc) in a major business center (NY, Chicago, etc). Possibly the IBanking number has been affected by the current economic environment, but I don't have the facts...

All I know is that I started at my Big 4 (then Big 8) accounting firm at $17,500 in 1977 - this being a premium, no less, from the undergraduates' starting salaries of about $14,000. It was an entry point for me in business (marine geology at Duke!) and I viewed it as an investment in post graduate and LIFE experience. And I've never looked back. I've loved the challenge, the interaction with smart, dedicated and highly ethical people, the responsibilites I have been given, and the continual change in the profession. Certainly never boring.

The average salary from the top schools tends to range from $100k to $120k. Ibankers make a lot more, but there are also people who go into non-profit or entrepreneurial fields.

[duke74]

The average salary from the top schools tends to range from $100k to $120k. Ibankers make a lot more, but there are also people who go into non-profit or entrepreneurial fields.

Thanks. Not inconsistent with my point. Note that I focused on the Ibanks and consultants: "...especially if he/she is going into IBanking or consulting (Booz, McKinsey, etc) in a major business center (NY, Chicago, etc)"

NFP, etc would drive down the average...as would start ups/entrepreneurial entities (with significant upside potential I would hope)

[knights68]

"Lead yourself with your heart and you can't go wrong."

-EJ

I gotta agree with EJ on this. If you want to choose a career based first and foremost on money instead of doing something you'll like, you may want to reassess a few of your goals.

Find something you'll really enjoy first and foremost, secondly try for money, ad it may work out better for you in the long term

[dukestheheat]

Acymetric-

I like the fact that you're thinking ahead, and really, you ask some good questions. On the side, I counsel (for free) individuals who are having money 'problems'; I simply problem-solve with them and we devise a way outta the jungle. I love that and if I could get paid (what I'm accustomed to getting paid in my full time job) I'd do it 40 hours/week, no doubt about it.

Recently read an article in the Wall Street Journal that 74% of this years hiring companies plan to pay their new hires $40,000/year or less (to start). More companies may work to interview Dukies, but they are going to pay you the same as the dude they hire that schooled elsewhere. The Duke degree may get you in the door quicker and more readily than degrees from other schools, but after that initial bump and nudge, you're going to have to sell yourself to your prospective employer just like everyone else. Past that initial cut, everyone is equal in the mind of the employer (speaking from the mindset and with the experience of one who's been on the hiring side of the desk...).

If married to a non-working spouse and with one child, you really are going to be cash-strapped at 40K/year. Assuming you're single, 40K will allow you certainly more choices but again, it's not much because of taxes, rent, and basic living expenses.

Be advised that it's HERE that many people (that I have seen) get into very dire financial trouble: they see others making some more cash and they decide to start spending outside of their means, rolling up the credit cards, etc.., and very soon they're 'in a hole' and can't get out.

So, choose to be wise and spend within your means; Devil Alumna gives great advice (as always) to choose perhaps an advanced degree (MBA perhaps).....did you know that today's Registered Pharmacist makes almost $100,000.00 per year to start out?

Keep communicating with everyone on your choice(s); I'd like to find out where you end up!

dukestheheat

[Exiled_Devil]

One thing to consider - your career isn't a linear progression. Think of your work life as a book. Each chapter helps build the next, but may not necessarily take place in teh same space or have the same tone as the previous.

Opening up that metaphor - don't worry about choosing your permanent for life career now. Find work that you think is rewarding (financially, personally or both) and throw yourself into it. When you start feeling that it isn't right anymore, look inside and figure out what is next. I think that is likely part of what happened for EarlJam.

As for the money/living thing - I lived on $25,000 a year a dozen years ago just out of college. IAMNAE(conomist) but I guess that adjusting for inflation, $35k should be manageable. $50k should give you more money than you know what to do with. A bit of advice - if you are in a company with a 401K, start out putting in the maximum. It doesn't hurt as much to put it in if you never have it in your pocket.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

Ok. I'm in the process of mulling possible future career possibilities, and had previously been set on engineering (until I realized I didn't like it at all. at least not electrical or mechanical). Anyways, I've been trying to come up with other possibilities, but my biggest problem is getting hung up on the difference in income since a lot of jobs don't pay as well as a lot of engineering jobs (I'm not interested in becoming a doctor or lawyer, so that knocks of those two as well). Now I don't think I need to be making six figures to consider myself successful, but I'm not really sure what kind of things you can do with certain levels of income.

As in. I know what its like to have the level of income I grew up with, but what kind of things can you afford with an income of 80,000; 60,000; or 40,000 just to cover a good range? I know it depends on a number of factors, like geographic location, financial responsibility, and such, but is there any way to figure out say, what kind of house you might be able to afford, and what kind of leisure activities and vacations can you afford?

Is there a good site for information like this?


Go pick up a copy of the millionaire next door and read it.

http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Thomas-Stanley/dp/0671015206/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213414055&sr=8-1