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jimsumner
06-11-2008, 09:57 PM
Duke press release.

"Duke University redshirt junior Brittany Mitch has been granted her release from the Blue Devil women’s basketball program.

Mitch, who is a native of McLean, Va., saw action in 23 contests last season, while averaging 2.0 points, 1.0 assists and 0.9 rebounds. Over her career at Duke, Mitch played in 59 contests and averaged 2.8 points, 1.5 rebounds, 1.2 assists and 1.0 steals.

“I enjoyed coaching Brittany this season, but understand and support her decision,” said Duke Head Coach Joanne P. McCallie. “We wish Brittany and her family all the best in the future.”

Mitch will remain at Duke in the fall and is expected to graduate in December of 2008 with a degree in biological anthropology and anatomy. She will pursue her graduate studies and remaining basketball eligibility at another institution."

No real surprise. She has been hampered by injuries and never regained her pre-injury mobility. With two guards coming in next season, it was difficult to invision a plausible sceanrio in which she got significant PT.

devildeac
06-11-2008, 10:11 PM
Curse you, Jim:(. I can almost always tell when you start a thread with a player's name that it will not be good news. Best of luck to Brittany finishing her degrees and any more hoops she may decide to play. And a hearty thank you to her also for her efforts on the court.

dukemomLA
06-12-2008, 01:49 AM
Can anyone closer to the Women's program give me a true heads up with what is going on? I'm a real fan of WBB and just can't get a handle on what's up with Duke at the moment. Thanks for any info.

CameronBornAndBred
06-12-2008, 07:48 AM
I think it's great she's finishing her academics at Duke. I wondered last year what was up with her. I enjoyed watching her during her 1st year, but for whatever reason Coach P didn't find a place for her in her system. Best of luck to her, she can be a valuable asset to a team that uses her.

bludev03
06-12-2008, 08:36 AM
Can anyone closer to the Women's program give me a true heads up with what is going on? I'm a real fan of WBB and just can't get a handle on what's up with Duke at the moment. Thanks for any info.

dukemom, I think you can see the handwriting on the wall:
a) Emily quit the team w/ about ten games left in her senior season and career. Only ten more games to play with her sister. She gave it up

b) Mitch has the chance to leave w/ the class she came in with (Abby, Careem). She gives it up.

c) No McD All-Americans in the freshman class (the first time ever this has happened)

d) Nneka Ogwumike, last year's #1 recruit and who made it clear it was 50/50 between Duke and Stanford because she was interested in medicine, wouldn't even make an official visit to a school that's located in a city whose nickname is the "City of Medicine"...

e) Because we failed to land Nneka, we are probably out of the running for her sister Chiney, who is the #1 player in 2010...

jimsumner
06-12-2008, 09:12 AM
"No McD All-Americans in the freshman class (the first time ever this has happened)"

Really. First-time ever?

Don't you love it when people just make up stuff?

I knew it wouldn't take long for the McCallie-is-evil-folks to jump in on this.

Brittany came to Duke with a reputation as a smart player, with a good skill set but who was athletically challenged by ACC-perimeter standards. After a series of injuries, including a bad hip problem, she became even more athletically challenged.

It was painful watching her play last season. You could tell that she knew where she needed to be and what she needed to be doing. She just couldn't get there in time to do it. Duke is bringing in two freshmen guards this season, one of whom is a consensus top-20 player, McDonald's notwithstanding. So, there was simply no plausible way she was going to play.

Brittany is a smart woman, a very good student, and I'm pretty sure she'll be a success in whatever she endeavors to do. I hope she can continue her hoops career but I suspect it won't be at an ACC-equivalent program. Injuries end or negatively impact college athletic careers all the time and that's unfortunate, tragic even to those involved, but it doesn't necessarily signify anything larger.

Nobody jumped off the Goestenkors bandwagon when Laura Kurz, Rometra Craig, Brittany Hunter et. al. left for greener pastures. I suggest we take a deep breath and give McCallie more than one season before sending out the lynch mob.

bludev03
06-12-2008, 10:00 AM
"No McD All-Americans in the freshman class (the first time ever this has happened)"

Really. First-time ever?

Don't you love it when people just make up stuff?

I knew it wouldn't take long for the McCallie-is-evil-folks to jump in on this.

Brittany came to Duke with a reputation as a smart player, with a good skill set but who was athletically challenged by ACC-perimeter standards. After a series of injuries, including a bad hip problem, she became even more athletically challenged.

It was painful watching her play last season. You could tell that she knew where she needed to be and what she needed to be doing. She just couldn't get there in time to do it. Duke is bringing in two freshmen guards this season, one of whom is a consensus top-20 player, McDonald's notwithstanding. So, there was simply no plausible way she was going to play.

Brittany is a smart woman, a very good student, and I'm pretty sure she'll be a success in whatever she endeavors to do. I hope she can continue her hoops career but I suspect it won't be at an ACC-equivalent program. Injuries end or negatively impact college athletic careers all the time and that's unfortunate, tragic even to those involved, but it doesn't necessarily signify anything larger.

Nobody jumped off the Goestenkors bandwagon when Laura Kurz, Rometra Craig, Brittany Hunter et. al. left for greener pastures. I suggest we take a deep breath and give McCallie more than one season before sending out the lynch mob.

Really, first time ever. Since the McD's girls' game inception in 2001 (I think), Duke has had a recruit in every game. This year was the first time it didn't happen.

Laura Kurz - brought nothing to the table worthy of a scholarship
Rometra Craig - bad chemistry; team was better when she left - addition by subtraction
Brittany Hunter - never wanted to play at Duke. The only reason why she came to Duke was b/c her parents wouldn't sign the LOI for UConn. When she became 18, she got the hello out of Duke.

Any more examples you would like reasons behind?

Bluedawg
06-12-2008, 11:18 AM
I suggest we take a deep breath and give McCallie more than one season before sending out the lynch mob.

I'm in 100% agreement with this!

jimsumner
06-12-2008, 11:36 AM
Lello Gebisa
LaNedra Brown
Olga Gvozdenovic
Janee Hayes
Juanita Hepburn
Brooke Smith
Crystal White
Wynter Whitley

Injuries, chemistry, PT, home-sickness. Lots of variables. The point is that programs lose players all the time; good players, bad players, good programs, bad programs, good reasons, bad reasons. So why would the departure of an oft-injured, end-of-the-bench player necessarily signal flaws in McCallie's program when the departure of other players didn't signal flaws in Goestenkors' program?

BTW, Laura Kurz averaged 15 ppg this past year in the Big East, so I would question your characterization that she has no talent. But if she had no talent, if Craig was a cancer, if Hunter was looking for a chance to bail from the beginning, then why isn't it any of this GG's fault? Or maybe that sort of thing just goes with the turf.

Folks, Gail's not coming back. Maybe Alleva botched the job search, maybe McCallie isn't ultimately the best person for the job. I liked Boyle, too. But I suspect I have more face-to-face contact with McCallie than most on this board and I've found her to be personable, intelligent, and engaging. I also know that the career folks in the Athletic Department share that view, at least the ones I've talked to, and I've talked to quite a few.

My contacts with the players have been formal and structured but none of those contacts suggests the level of dismay that others have seen. Maybe they're just good actors. She's different than Gail and an adjustment period is expected, even inevitable. Maybe McCallie morphs into the Wicked Witch when she closes that door for practice. I can't prove the negative but based on what I have seen of her, she would have to be clinically bi-polar to make the kind of transformation that her most vitrolic critics have laid out. I have no doubt that she yells at her players. So did Gail. So does Mike Krzyzewski. So does every other coach in the known universe.

So, I'm more than a bit skeptical and I think we're still in the evaluation mode not bring-out-the-lifeboat-mode.

Let's let this play out longer.

JBDuke
06-12-2008, 11:39 AM
Lello Gebisa
LaNedra Brown
Olga Gvozdenovic
Janee Hayes
Juanita Hepburn
Brooke Smith
Crystal White
Wynter Whitley

Injuries, chemistry, PT, home-sickness. Lots of variables. The point is that programs lose players all the time; good players, bad players, good programs, bad programs, good reasons, bad reasons. So why would the departure of an oft-injured, end-of-the-bench player necessarily signal flaws in McCallie's program when the departure of other players didn't signal flaws in Goestenkors' program?

BTW, Laura Kurz averaged 15 ppg this past year in the Big East, so I would question your characterization that she has no talent. But if she had no talent, if Craig was a cancer, if Hunter was looking for a chance to bail from the beginning, then why isn't it any of this GG's fault? Or maybe that sort of thing just goes with the turf.

Folks, Gail's not coming back. Maybe Alleva botched the job search, maybe McCallie isn't ultimately the best person for the job. I liked Boyle, too. But I suspect I have more face-to-face contact with McCallie than most on this board and I've found her to be personable, intelligent, and engaging. I also know that the career folks in the Athletic Department share that view, at least the ones I've talked to, and I've talked to quite a few.

My contacts with the players have been formal and structured but none of those contacts suggests the level of dismay that others have seen. Maybe they're just good actors. She's different than Gail and an adjustment period is expected, even inevitable. Maybe McCallie morphs into the Wicked Witch when she closes that door for practice. I can't prove the negative but based on what I have seen of her, she would have to be clinically bi-polar to make the kind of transformation that her most vitrolic critics have laid out. I have no doubt that she yells at her players. So did Gail. So does Mike Krzyzewski. So does every other coach in the known universe.

So, I'm more than a bit skeptical and I think we're still in the evaluation mode not bring-out-the-lifeboat-mode.

Let's let this play out longer.

Thanks, Jim, for once again being the voice of reason.

bludev03
06-12-2008, 11:52 AM
Lello Gebisa
LaNedra Brown
Olga Gvozdenovic
Janee Hayes
Juanita Hepburn
Brooke Smith
Crystal White
Wynter Whitley

Injuries, chemistry, PT, home-sickness. Lots of variables. The point is that programs lose players all the time; good players, bad players, good programs, bad programs, good reasons, bad reasons. So why would the departure of an oft-injured, end-of-the-bench player necessarily signal flaws in McCallie's program when the departure of other players didn't signal flaws in Goestenkors' program?

BTW, Laura Kurz averaged 15 ppg this past year in the Big East, so I would question your characterization that she has no talent. But if she had no talent, if Craig was a cancer, if Hunter was looking for a chance to bail from the beginning, then why isn't it any of this GG's fault? Or maybe that sort of thing just goes with the turf.

Folks, Gail's not coming back. Maybe Alleva botched the job search, maybe McCallie isn't ultimately the best person for the job. I liked Boyle, too. But I suspect I have more face-to-face contact with McCallie than most on this board and I've found her to be personable, intelligent, and engaging. I also know that the career folks in the Athletic Department share that view, at least the ones I've talked to, and I've talked to quite a few.

My contacts with the players have been formal and structured but none of those contacts suggests the level of dismay that others have seen. Maybe they're just good actors. She's different than Gail and an adjustment period is expected, even inevitable. Maybe McCallie morphs into the Wicked Witch when she closes that door for practice. I can't prove the negative but based on what I have seen of her, she would have to be clinically bi-polar to make the kind of transformation that her most vitrolic critics have laid out. I have no doubt that she yells at her players. So did Gail. So does Mike Krzyzewski. So does every other coach in the known universe.

So, I'm more than a bit skeptical and I think we're still in the evaluation mode not bring-out-the-lifeboat-mode.

Let's let this play out longer.

LaNedra Brown - Chemistry; again, addition by subtraction
Lello Gebisa - Wanted to play w/ her sister at Wisconsin
Olga - ACL injuries, plus she wanted to play on the Duke Tennis team
Janee Hayes - 9 month flu
Juanita Hepburn- before my time, so no clue about her
Brooke Smith - didnt have the talent to compete in G's system, nor the athleticism to compete in the ACC (the Slac-10 is a cupcake compared to the ACC)
Crystal White - Chemistry; addition by subtraction
Wynter Whitley - she had personal/psychological issues that were documented. no clue if she used her elgibility

Oh, for Laura Kurtz averaging 15 points for Nova? You're talking about a system that is designed to milk the shot clock to under 5 seconds, then lauch a three pointer. Players dont go for O Boards, no 1 on 1, no fast break transitioning, no full court defense. Laura didnt have the skill set nor athleticism to compete in the ACC or on the biggest stage. VanillaNova is perfect for her. Oh, you failed to mention that VanillaNova finished 12th in the Big Least....

GopherBlue
06-12-2008, 12:02 PM
... I think you can see the handwriting on the wall...

Rather than insisting this announcement constitutes "handwriting on the wall" and using it as an excuse to get out the torches and pitchforks - chill out and look at the facts associated with this announcement.

- Brittany will complete her undergraduate degree at the end of fall semester;
- Brittany, largely due to serious injuries, has been buried on the depth chart, with little prospect for meaningful playing time in the coming seasons;
- Brittany has two years of eligible playing time remaining;
- Brittany has expressed interest in post-graduate studies.

By leaving the team at this time, Brittany can complete her undergrad degree and has the opportunity to begin (and likely complete) a graduate program while on scholarship at a school where she has the potential to play a significant role on the basketball team. Undergrad and grad degrees without debt, while playing major college basketball - makes sense to me.

Go for it, Brittany - congrats & best of luck!

MHTorringjan
06-12-2008, 12:19 PM
Thanks to the people who've spoken with a level head in this thread. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I'm behind Coach P for at the very least three seasons.

As for Brittany, I feel really bad that she's going to finish her career elsewhere. I've enjoyed watching her play, even despite the injuries and everything else, and was looking forward to seeing how she improved with an additional year. From a fellow graduate student, here's to hoping that she finds the school that's right for her and her graduate career! :-)

M.H.

jimsumner
06-12-2008, 12:23 PM
BluDev,

You're missing the point. Players transfer or leave eligibility on the table all the time. If Brittany bailing is by definition a reflection on McCallie, then the players who left under GG have to be a reflection on Goestenkors.

I would say that it's a reflection on neither but simply the nature of the college-basketball-universe. For crying out loud, Duke was down to eight players one year because of attrition. Nobody was calling for Gail's head then.

Again on Kurz (or Smith). If they didn't have the ability to play in the ACC, then why were they recruited? If we give the same scrutinty to Goestenkors that we give to McCallie, wouldn't that mean Gail can't evaluate talent? Or offers scholarships to people she knows can't play? Doesn't she know that Gebisa is going to be home sick?

Of course, not. This isn't a science, it's an art involving flawed human beings and people make mistakes, grow, don't grow, change their minds, get hurt, get sick. Add a new coach, a new system, throw that into the cauldron of arguably the nation's top college conference, and you're going to have some wobbles. Give them a chance to work it out.

pacificrounder
06-12-2008, 12:36 PM
c) No McD All-Americans in the freshman class (the first time ever this has happened)

d) Nneka Ogwumike, last year's #1 recruit and who made it clear it was 50/50 between Duke and Stanford because she was interested in medicine, wouldn't even make an official visit to a school that's located in a city whose nickname is the "City of Medicine"...

e) Because we failed to land Nneka, we are probably out of the running for her sister Chiney, who is the #1 player in 2010...

I am less interested in what has already happened and more interested in these three recruiting points. Is next year's class sub-par, or are they strong players not selected to the McD team? Any ideas on why they weren't selected if they are strong players?

Why wouldn't Ogwumike visit a school with one of the best medical centers in the nation? Was it that she instantly fell in love with Stanford, that the staff didn't make her a priority, or that she wasn't a good fit for our system? (Though, being a #1 recruit and having a little sister who is a #1 recruit might make it smart to fit them into the system, within reason.)

Who are we recruiting for the upcoming seasons? I admit, after following WBB closely for a few years (thanks to my sister who followed it closely and I got a lot of updates from), I have fallen out of the loop.

fadero
06-12-2008, 06:15 PM
The offense last year was brutal to watch. It was poorly designed for the talent on the team. Hardly any screens were ever set, player rotation, and ball movement was minimal. We failed to take advantage of our speed at point guard. Because so few screens were set, Abby was in a shooting funk all year. Our offense was so predictable we were at an all time high in turnovers. In big games against elite teams our offense looked high schoolish. I could go on and on.

dukemomLA
06-13-2008, 02:44 AM
I've been a Coach P fan from the start. I wish her well and support the WBB program always.

My post about "what's going on" was prompted by my dilemma as to what we DBR fanatics can possibly do to add encouragement and added support to the women's program, players, coaches, etc.

Obviously I can't attend most games. I've sent positive, supportive emails to Coach P on a regular basis. Is there anything else we can do?

chrishoke
06-13-2008, 07:01 AM
Like others, I thank Jim for his level headed responses.

On recruiting, for next year Hoopgurlz ranks our incoming recruits thus:

#13 Shay Selby
#21 Kathleen Scheer
#61 Chelsia Hopkins

ohioguy2
06-13-2008, 08:27 AM
O.K. I will admit that I was not happy with the play of the team last year. I saw four or five games at Cameron and a few others on TV or away. There was a lack of flow to the offense and some of the players never really reacted well in the match up zone. That being said, it is simply not possible at this time to place the blame on a certain position or coach. I will not rehash all that has been said, but such a dramatic change in philosophy is hard for players to adjust to, mentally or physically. Also, some of the people responding here need to quit their day jobs and become coaches. They obviously are just five players away from a national championship.

cspan37421
06-13-2008, 08:56 AM
I agree P should be given time for her system to develop. There's been a lot of criticism over quality of play, players quitting on P and the team, recruiting supposedly falling off. Yes, some of these things can be random (like injuries). But for a lot of people, their gut is telling them that if it was just random, why aren't we seeing some randomly good news coming out of the program?

By no means should we bail on P or the team. By the same token, though, I wouldn't extend her until we're sure it the trend is just random luck or a temporary transitional period to a different system.

miramar
06-13-2008, 09:45 AM
I've been a Coach P fan from the start. I wish her well and support the WBB program always.

My post about "what's going on" was prompted by my dilemma as to what we DBR fanatics can possibly do to add encouragement and added support to the women's program, players, coaches, etc.

Obviously I can't attend most games. I've sent positive, supportive emails to Coach P on a regular basis. Is there anything else we can do?

You might be interested in a long article on women's basketball that appeared in the Chronicle Towerview a couple of months back:

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/04/23/Features/A.Season.Of.Change-3343683.shtml

I think the article is pretty objective and well written. I am sure that everyone would agree that Coach P's first year did not go as well as planned, so the question is where the program goes from here.

I am sure that Duke will give her every chance to show what she can do, one way or another, so I guess we will have to stay tuned.

GADevilFan
06-13-2008, 11:09 AM
That is a very interersting article. I would say that last season was really rough; the women were not fun to watch. Of course, the new coach needs to be given time to get her system going and to recruit her type of players.

However, GG really built the program. The powers that be need to make sure that this program retains it's elite status.

Losing another player is not a good sign.

ohioguy2
06-13-2008, 12:39 PM
That is a very interersting article. I would say that last season was really rough; the women were not fun to watch. Of course, the new coach needs to be given time to get her system going and to recruit her type of players.

However, GG really built the program. The powers that be need to make sure that this program retains it's elite status.

Losing another player is not a good sign.

I agree--not fun to watch and it looked as if they were not having fun. Losing another player is not a good sign, but neither is it a bad sign. Players come and go from elite programs and from not so elite programs. Recruiting is not an exact science and most if not all highly recruited players feel they can be starters if not stars anywhere.

Bluedawg
06-13-2008, 12:41 PM
I agree P should be given time for her system to develop. There's been a lot of criticism over quality of play, players quitting on P and the team, recruiting supposedly falling off. Yes, some of these things can be random (like injuries). But for a lot of people, their gut is telling them that if it was just random, why aren't we seeing some randomly good news coming out of the program?

By no means should we bail on P or the team. By the same token, though, I wouldn't extend her until we're sure it the trend is just random luck or a temporary transitional period to a different system.

by " players quitting on P and the team" do you mean leaving the team or just mailing it in?

cspan37421
06-13-2008, 04:55 PM
I meant leaving the team, such as before the end of the year, or before one's full commitment is up. I didn't mean quitting in a game. I'm sure they had frustrations in-game many a time, but I doubt very strongly any of them has ever quit trying during a game. There'd have to be some remarkable evidence. Sorry for being unclear.

As I said, I'd feel a lot more confident if some random good news came out of the WBB program. Like a good player eager to transfer in, or a good recruit landed, or stories of enthusiasm for the team and coach, etc.

DST Fan
06-14-2008, 10:38 AM
Rather than insisting this announcement constitutes "handwriting on the wall" and using it as an excuse to get out the torches and pitchforks - chill out and look at the facts associated with this announcement.

- Brittany will complete her undergraduate degree at the end of fall semester;
- Brittany, largely due to serious injuries, has been buried on the depth chart, with little prospect for meaningful playing time in the coming seasons;
- Brittany has two years of eligible playing time remaining;
- Brittany has expressed interest in post-graduate studies.

By leaving the team at this time, Brittany can complete her undergrad degree and has the opportunity to begin (and likely complete) a graduate program while on scholarship at a school where she has the potential to play a significant role on the basketball team. Undergrad and grad degrees without debt, while playing major college basketball - makes sense to me.

Go for it, Brittany - congrats & best of luck!

I agree with GopherBlue's comments. Personally, I would hope we would take some pride in a D-1 athlete who graduates one semester early and moves on to grad school. Best of luck to her.

DevilDan
06-14-2008, 11:18 AM
The upcoming season is very important for Duke women's hoops. The article paints a very sobering picture of the '07-'08 year. The new coach was brought in after GG left the program (apparently for a number of reasons), to take the women to the next level. Looking back, there just weren't many bright moments.

I echo the point that the team just didn't look at all comfortable on the floor, nor appear to be having a good time. It looked much more like a GRIND than a game. It was as though they were THINKING their way thru the game, (with hesitation, and fears of screwing up) more than PLAYING the game. Example: Abby Waner, who can be a standout in the WNBA.

'08-'09 is a new year. Some can say that Coach P can't be judged until she has "her own players" (recruits) on the floor -- I'm sitting on the fence on this one. What do you guys think?

grahamdevil
06-14-2008, 11:44 AM
If she can put in a up tempo offense and recruit we should be fine.

Raleighfan
06-14-2008, 02:07 PM
The upcoming season is very important for Duke women's hoops. The article paints a very sobering picture of the '07-'08 year. The new coach was brought in after GG left the program (apparently for a number of reasons), to take the women to the next level. Looking back, there just weren't many bright moments.

I echo the point that the team just didn't look at all comfortable on the floor, nor appear to be having a good time. It looked much more like a GRIND than a game. It was as though they were THINKING their way thru the game, (with hesitation, and fears of screwing up) more than PLAYING the game. Example: Abby Waner, who can be a standout in the WNBA.

'08-'09 is a new year. Some can say that Coach P can't be judged until she has "her own players" (recruits) on the floor -- I'm sitting on the fence on this one. What do you guys think?

I'm in total agreement with you. The biggest thing that bothered me about McCallie was that she did not deliver on her boasts in her introductory presser---it was a lot of hot air. PR seems to be one of her talents. I can understand Brittany leaving the team and her subsequent plans to transfer; IMO, Emily Waner was another story. If that didn't raise a red flag for you/anyone, then you haven't been following Duke WBB very closely and probably don't care much about the program anyway.

miramar
06-14-2008, 02:23 PM
If she can put in a up tempo offense and recruit we should be fine.

I agree, but there was something in the article that really struck me:

“McCallie's coaching philosophy stated that teams who relied heavily on a fast pace throughout the year set themselves up for failure in March, when referees swallowed their whistles and possessions became more valued as the weight of a season hung on every one. Anyone could get up and down the court in the regular season, but teams that could control the ball and establish an inside game had a better chance of advancing in the Tournament-the only time that having a better chance actually mattered, at least by Duke's expectations.”

The article also indicates that (as we know) Duke had trouble “playing against teams that wanted to run up and down the floor and were more adept at enforcing their style-e.g., Maryland, North Carolina, Tennessee and Connecticut.”

So the theory is that you don’t want to be a running team because that sets you up for failure in the post-season, but we can see from the teams mentioned above that this notion is highly suspect. In addition, the article states that WBB lost $3 million in GG’s last year, but I am not sure how Duke is going to fill up seats with a Big 10, grind-it-out approach.

Having said that, I wish the team every success and I hope that the 2007-08 season was just a bump in the road.

bludev03
06-14-2008, 08:47 PM
The upcoming season is very important for Duke women's hoops. The article paints a very sobering picture of the '07-'08 year. The new coach was brought in after GG left the program (apparently for a number of reasons), to take the women to the next level. Looking back, there just weren't many bright moments.

I echo the point that the team just didn't look at all comfortable on the floor, nor appear to be having a good time. It looked much more like a GRIND than a game. It was as though they were THINKING their way thru the game, (with hesitation, and fears of screwing up) more than PLAYING the game. Example: Abby Waner, who can be a standout in the WNBA.

'08-'09 is a new year. Some can say that Coach P can't be judged until she has "her own players" (recruits) on the floor -- I'm sitting on the fence on this one. What do you guys think?

P can't be judged until she has "her own players" on the floor? She had 8 McDonald's AAs and a WBCA AA on the roster!! She came from MSU, where she had ZERO McD's AAs and WBCA AAs, to Duke that had a combined total of 9. Talk about a SERIOUS upgrade in TALENT! And this was the best she could do??

Women's basketball isn't stocked w/ prime talent like men's basketball. Nowdays, in women's basketball, there's a big gap in talent in the #3 player in the county and the #30. In the men's game, you can rack up players who rank in the 30-60 range and still have a competitive team; however, that won't fly in the women's game. There are only a few true studs out there, and if you want to stay competitive, then you need to get them. Right now, UConn, Tenn, and Rutgers have all the studs! They are soooo stocked up in talent, it's not even funny. LSU, Stanford, Baylor, and UNC have all racked up enough to stay afloat and be competitive. Duke didn't bring any in this year, and don't have any on the radar.

Most importantly, do you think a top recruit wants to play in a boring half-court pound-it-to-the-post grind-it-out style of basketball?! Noooooope! Especially when they can play for other schools, whose coaches have systems that allows their players to take advantage of their skillset and have free offensive reign...

bludev03
06-14-2008, 09:14 PM
I'm in total agreement with you. The biggest thing that bothered me about McCallie was that she did not deliver on her boasts in her introductory presser---it was a lot of hot air. PR seems to be one of her talents. I can understand Brittany leaving the team and her subsequent plans to transfer; IMO, Emily Waner was another story. If that didn't raise a red flag for you/anyone, then you haven't been following Duke WBB very closely and probably don't care much about the program anyway.

In Judge Judy's book, "Beauty Fades - Dumb Is Forever", she has a chapter titled: "Denial Is A River In Egypt". Have you ever had a friend who was in an abusive relationship or had a cheating spouse/partner? EVERYBODY in the world sees it and knows it - except him or her. "He only hit me because he was under stress.." , "It was my fault, I made him mad..." "He acts this way because he's protective and loves me..."
Or maybe they know it, but wants to give him or her the benefit of doubt or hopes the can change him or her. "Well, I'll just lose some weight..." , "Maybe if I'd dyed my hair a different color...", "But he's at the office at 2am because he has to work on a project.."

Well, that's what P supports sound like! "Just give her some time..." "Let her get her own recruits...." "We weren't bad, we won 25 games..." "It's not her fault Abby missed wide open shots...."
Denial is a river in Egypt!!!!

DevilDan
06-15-2008, 10:42 AM
WOW ... lots of good in-depth points from BluDev3. The quotes from Judge Judy (one of my alltime favorites) are great in the mix, too. I refereed the college game for 10 years, and found at the time that a major percentage of Mens players play for themselves, while Womens players play for Coach. Another general point of view is that women are "more coachable" ... along with that comes the term "more impressionable".

So this season is a big one for the DUKE women. Do the players make the adjustments to the new style more freely? A bigger question may be, does "Coach P" make some adjustments for the good of the program? Both questions need to answered YES, if this program moves forward. It appears that the talent level is there. The moves of E. Waner and B. Mitch (for whatever reasons) are perceived negatives ... Somebody needs to do some damage control, and create some positive PR for this program, and SOON.

Raleighfan
06-15-2008, 04:07 PM
DevilDan wrote: "Somebody needs to do some damage control, and create some positive PR for this program, and SOON."

PR you say? No, we've had our fill of PR...it's time, way past time, for some evidence of positive action on the part of the coaching staff toward getting the WBB program back on track.

DevilDan
06-15-2008, 04:59 PM
Right Raleighfan, I'm with you .... I'm not looking for anything more on or about "Coach P"; I need some news on the new recruiting class, what the players are doing now to get ready, something that has a positive spin .... until they tip it off in November, there's not much else we can hang our hat on.

fadero
06-15-2008, 05:44 PM
It would be nice to get an early committment. It would also be nice to see some evidence that she is actually recruiting.