Leslie McDonald to UNC?

[Methodistman]

Fayetteville Observer is reporting that Leslie McDonald has committed to UNC, but their source is InsideCarolina. Anyone have confirmation?

http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=296316

[Bluedog]

Rivals and Scout.com also have McDonald giving a solid verbal to UNC....

So, UNC has FIVE players already committed from the Class of 2009. That has to be some kind of record. 2 guards and 3 PFs. And they have four coming in next year, right? If people don't go pro/drop-out/transfer, they're quickly going to run out of scholarships to give....Not that that should be their biggest concern, but 9 players in two years is a lot.

[TheDuke11]

NOT COOL!!!!!!!

we have no luck when the recruit visits both on the same day/weekend.

first bwright and now lmcdonald.

NOT COOL!!!!!!!!!!

[jv001]

First time poster. Have been on the sidelines for couple of years and decided to take part. Great board by the way. McDonalds verbal to unc(does not deserve caps) comes as no suprise to me. I know coach K has back up plans and we needed big men more than we needed swing men. NEXT PLAY! Thanks for letting me participate.

[Olympic Fan]

I suspect that K's backup plan is a 6-4 Texas combo guard named Nick Russell, who was pretty impressive when he was hear last week for the TOC.

As always, the key to this class for Duke is Kenny Boynton -- get him to go along with Mason Plumlee and we'll be fine ... miss him, and we'll be playing catchup (which means going hard for Brandon Knight in the 2010 class).

As for UNC's numbers crunch, they're only in trouble if Lawson and Ellington stay four years. If neither leaves early (and nobody else does), Roy will have 14 on scholarship for 2009-2010. But it's a pretty good bet that won't happen. Heck, if both leave either this month or after next season, he would still have another scholarship for the 2009 class.

No matter what they do, Roy's lined up to have 12 scholarship players in 2010-11 -- so technically he's got one more give (he's already got Bullock and Marshall lined up for that class). Of course, that's a long way off and a defection or early NBA entry can change that.

[watzone]

http://myblogdevils.eponym.com/blog

[sandinmyshoes]

The only sting to this really is rivalry pride. He seems a very good player and a great kid, but I do not think Duke or UNC saw him as a must-get.

Probably the biggest negative for us is that with that class wrapped up, Williams can get a jump on building a solid recruiting foundation for the two following classes.

[watzone]

The only sting to this really is rivalry pride. He seems a very good player and a great kid, but I do not think Duke or UNC saw him as a must-get.

Probably the biggest negative for us is that with that class wrapped up, Williams can get a jump on building a solid recruiting foundation for the two following classes.


You're pretty much on target here. Duke is in good shape with some 2010 kids.

[TheDuke11]

You're pretty much on target here. Duke is in good shape with some 2010 kids.


we were in good shape with lmac too, at least I had thought we were.

for the life of me I cant understand how we went from "the staff feels great, we are in it for him" to him committing to unc, in the span of like 4 hours.

[Devilsfan]

I HATE losing especially to that school. Not good news.

[Classof06]

While it would've been great to land the kid, I'm not losing any sleep over this. With the exceptional perimeter players we have, I personally feel Duke still needs to focus on the frontcourt and McDonald doesn't fall under that category.

Sucks to lose out to UNC on a kid but that's about it. We get Boynton and this isn't even an issue.

[Edouble]

I'm suprised that he visited us second and still committed to UNC so quickly. Was Coach K around last weekend? Is McDonald allowed to see the coaches on an unofficial visit?

[TheDuke11]

who knows if we are even in it for Boynton anymore?

Almost impossible to know for sure anymore. I almost think that whoever these "sources" are seem to be intentionally feeding false information lately, and thats not fair to the reporters or the fans who pay money to read it.

[RepoMan]

I thought Yates told us he was a lock for Tennessee

[watzone]

who knows if we are even in it for Boynton anymore?

Almost impossible to know for sure anymore. I almost think that whoever these "sources" are seem to be intentionally feeding false information lately, and thats not fair to the reporters or the fans who pay money to read it.

What site are you talking about? I haven't seen a lot of false information my way. It pretty ,uch came down to Duke and UNC. Don't overeact on KB. It'll all work out.

[watzone]

I'm suprised that he visited us second and still committed to UNC so quickly. Was Coach K around last weekend? Is McDonald allowed to see the coaches on an unofficial visit?


Nobody knows what got into the kids mind for sure. K had a lot of responsibilities going on. Roy put the full court press on, even having dinner at midcourt of the Dean Dome with his family.

[DUKIECB]

Can someone do a list of the four players unc has coming in this year and the five coming in 2009. What does it look like beside Ewill, the Plumlees and Czyz?

[Chicago 1995]

You're pretty much on target here. Duke is in good shape with some 2010 kids.

When we whiffed on Patrick Patterson, wasn't it the '08 Class that we were in good shape with?

And when we missed on Monroe, it was that '09 was much stronger, and we'd be in good shape with the '09 recruits. We've now missed on three of those '09 recruits -- McDonald, Murphy and Echinque (who has since been reclassified as an '08).

Now we're on to 2010. Forgive me if at this point, the we're "in good shape with some 2010 kids" refrain rings hollow.

[roywhite]

When we whiffed on Patrick Patterson, wasn't it the '08 Class that we were in good shape with?

And when we missed on Monroe, it was that '09 was much stronger, and we'd be in good shape with the '09 recruits. We've now missed on three of those '09 recruits -- McDonald, Murphy and Echinque (who has since been reclassified as an '08).

Now we're on to 2010. Forgive me if at this point, the we're "in good shamp with some 2010 kids" refrain rings hollow.

If you're suggesting that we're doing poorly in recruiting, I'd have to disagree:

The 2008 class of Miles Plumlee, Elliott Williams, and Olek Czyz fills needs; Czyz for one is a very intriguing prospect---way too early to call that class a miss

The 2009 class is off to an excellent start with Mason Plumlee---saw the other day that Brick Oettinger (one of the better gurus IMO) has Mason ranked #12 in that class. We're certainly in it with Kenny Boynton, who is a Top 10 type recruit, and apparently in it with Jamil Wilson also, and perhaps others.

2010? I really don't know; Watzone knows as much as any non-Duke staff person, and he seems pleased with our positioning.

Duke and Carolina are competing for the best prospects in the country, but that's nothing new. Seems to me the 2008-09 season looks very promising, and beyond that looks good too.

[formerdukeathlete]

Nobody knows what got into the kids mind for sure. K had a lot of responsibilities going on. Roy put the full court press on, even having dinner at midcourt of the Dean Dome with his family.

Roy kind of rubs it in our face, with recruits, on a same weekend visit. "You saw CIS, now lets have dinner center court at the Dean Dome." Kid wants to play in front of large crowds. Maybe he has not been to a game in Cameron to withness the heightened, special atmosphere. The differences in arenas is one thing that got into this recruit's mind, is my bet.

[superdave]

IIRC, McD did come to a game or two in Cameron this past winter.
My guess is this points to some openings in the UNC backcourt that will be created by the 08 nba draft.
Super "Word." Dave

[TheDuke11]

What site are you talking about? I haven't seen a lot of false information my way. It pretty ,uch came down to Duke and UNC. Don't overeact on KB. It'll all work out.

we've got this weird firewall thing here where I work so I can only access rivals free boards and dbr's free boards. Not sure exactly why that is.

Didnt LMac visit dean smith center 1st?

[DukeBlood]

Relax people. It's far from the end of this recruiting class. Yeah, It doesn't feel good losing a recruit to a rival. In the end, Leslie felt it was best for him to attend UNC. Im glad he made the decision that felt right to him.

Watzone, Is it safe to assume Nick Russell will be getting the next scholarship? Nick Russell is basically the same size as McDonald. Russell really had a great TOC outing. He wasn't on the same level as Kenny Boynton but right there.

Also, We still have people like Jamil Wilson, Terell Vinson, Derrick Favors, and maybe one or two others that are slipping my mind. I don't think Favors will ever be wearing a Duke uniform, but he likes Duke. The thing about Vinson and Wilson is they are both SF's.

Everyone, There is NO need to worry. I dont think we need another frontcourt player as we do a true point guard. None the less, still lots of players better then McDonald left to grab.

[TheDuke11]

if this was the first recruit we have lost in awhile then I agree there would be no need to worry.

problem is, this has become a disturbing trend as of late (losing recruits). There is a little bit of a need to worry.

[dukeimac]

I know people get depressed when Duke doesn't land a good recruit like McD but sometimes I think it is because the Duke coaches saw something they weren't real crazy about and decided not put put on the full-court press.

The way things are going these days I'd rather see Duke recruit guys that will stay around 3 (gulp) years rather than try to recruit a 1 or 2 year wonder.

Duke was high on Love and then it seemed like they went soft and he committed to UCLA. Now he is gone (after 1 year) and UCLA never won the title.

Monroe will play for G-Town for 1 year and then he is gone. I don't think they will be in the running to cut the nets down in the next year or two.

If Duke is letting their recruits know they want someone who will think college ball first and nba second and UNC doesn't care then let them go to UNC.

UNC had the POY this year and never cut down the net. Trust the coaching staff to know more than us and do the right thing. The enjoyment I get is that ol' Roy has had some pretty good teams at UK and UNC and the only time they have cut down the nets is when someone recruited for him. Something tells me ol' Roy can win games but not the big one and that will catch up with UNC. The pressure is on Roy and he better deliver soon or the recruits will go elsewhere real quick.

[Bluedog]

Can someone do a list of the four players unc has coming in this year and the five coming in 2009. What does it look like beside Ewill, the Plumlees and Czyz?

UNC's Class of 2008 - coming in next year (scout.com rankings by position):
SG NR (3 star) Justin Watts 6-4/185/22.0
PF 7 (5 star) Tyler Zeller 6-11/220/32.1
PF 3 (5 star) Ed Davis 6-8/215/21.6
PG 4 (4 star) Larry Drew 6-0/170/13.9

Duke's Class of 2008:
PF 14 (4 star) Miles Plumlee 6-10/225/11.0
SG 4 (5 star) Elliot Williams 6-4/170/21.3
PF 30 (4 star) Olek Czyz 6-7/23

UNC's Class of 2009:
SG 7 (4 star) Leslie McDonald 6-4/185
SG 4 (5 star) Dexter Strickland 6-3/175
PF 17 (4 star) David Wear 6-9/225
PF 18 (4 star) Travis Wear 6-9/225
PF 1 (5 star) John Henson 6-10/200/24.0

Duke's Class of 2009 (as of now, still waaaay early):
PF 3 (5 star) Mason Plumlee 6-11/210

We'll be fine. Duke will get more great recruits to add to the ones we already have. UNC just happens to be getting commits super early, but you don't get bonus points for getting them early. Plus, we all know how reliable recruiting rankings can be....:rolleyes: I'm not worried at all.

[dw0827]

Something tells me ol' Roy can win games but not the big one and that will catch up with UNC. The pressure is on Roy and he better deliver soon or the recruits will go elsewhere real quick.

Um, didn't ol' Roy just win the big one a few years ago? Like in '05? So why is the pressure on ol' Roy to deliver soon any more than the pressure is on Coach K to deliver soon . . . who, incidentally, hasn't won the big one since '01. So does that mean our potential recruits will go elsewhere real quick? Is that what's happening?

I think your logic is bizarre.

[Cali-Duke]

UNC's Class of 2008 - coming in next year (scout.com rankings by position):
SG NR (3 star) Justin Watts 6-4/185/22.0
PF 7 (5 star) Tyler Zeller 6-11/220/32.1
PF 3 (5 star) Ed Davis 6-8/215/21.6
PG 4 (4 star) Larry Drew 6-0/170/13.9

Duke's Class of 2008:
PF 14 (4 star) Miles Plumlee 6-10/225/11.0
SG 4 (5 star) Elliot Williams 6-4/170/21.3
PF 30 (4 star) Olek Czyz 6-7/23

UNC's Class of 2009:
SG 7 (4 star) Leslie McDonald 6-4/185
SG 4 (5 star) Dexter Strickland 6-3/175
PF 17 (4 star) David Wear 6-9/225
PF 18 (4 star) Travis Wear 6-9/225
PF 1 (5 star) John Henson 6-10/200/24.0

Duke's Class of 2009 (as of now, still waaaay early):
PF 3 (5 star) Mason Plumlee 6-11/210

We'll be fine. Duke will get more great recruits to add to the ones we already have. UNC just happens to be getting commits super early, but you don't get bonus points for getting them early. Plus, we all know how reliable recruiting rankings can be....:rolleyes: I'm not worried at all.


Not only that, but UNC has 5 power forwards coming in over the next two years. UNC will also have deon thompson for those two years (and luckily Hansblah for only one more). Sure they have great recruits, but what is the point if they can't play them all.

We have a good balance, and I'm pretty happy about that.

[DukeBlood]

if this was the first recruit we have lost in awhile then I agree there would be no need to worry.

problem is, this has become a disturbing trend as of late (losing recruits). There is a little bit of a need to worry.

Yeah, I can see your point. Step back and take a look. We lose Murphy to Florida, end up offereing someone who at the time was thought to be much less of a player in Plumlee, and ends up being better.

Greg Echenique, Turns out somehow his age is different then what it was previously said. Duke doesnt need any kind of distraction like that IMO.

What about Leslie McDonald? A solid player, sure it hurts to miss him. He CAN and WILL be replaced. Most likely by Nick Russell. Who cares WHEN they committ? As long as they are wearing Duke Uniforms, I could care less.

As said by everyone on here, Kenny Boynton is the #1 target. If we miss on him, then there is some need for worry. My understanding that Kenny Boynton is head and shoulders above Leslie McDonald..

Lets take a look to when the 09 class will be freshman. Assuming we have Boynton, and hopefully Gerald Henderson.

Kenny Boynton(FR)
Nolan Smith(JR)
Jon Scheyer(SR)
Gerald Henderson(SR)
Elliot Williams(SO)

Thats 5 players for 3 positions. Now, If we lose Henderson to the draft(very likely) and Boynton doesnt join the Duke family(doubtful). Then we still have 3 above average players at 3 positions. Coach K WILL add a couple more guards to that class. Once again, Relax.

I will worry IF Kenny Boynton does not become a Duke player.

Duke does not have to keep up with UNC. Coach K just needs to fill spots for the team needs, and he is doing that. I almost will promise you that SOME of these Carolina guys will transfer. Most likely only one or two of them. But once again, we do not have to keep up with UNC as far as signing 9 reccruits in two years. That has transfer written all over it.

[pamtelp]

By all objective standards, the 2008 class and the pending 2009 class look to be very fine recruiting classes. They would be the envy of the vast majority of schools and we will undoubtedly field winning teams with them. Very excited to have those players on board.

That having been said, Duke's recruiting has fallen more than a few notches in the past few years. 3-4 years ago we talked about picking and choosing our players. Never really an accurate description of the process, but the results seemed to suggest we could seemingly get anyone that we wanted. Today, we are working very hard to fill out top 10-25 classes. We simply aren't bring in top classes anymore and our hit rate is much more mortal right now.

I think Roy's arrival has had an impact. He has beaten us like a mule over the past couple of years. Beyond that, I am simply at a loss to explain it. Perhaps the anti-Duke sentiment has had a real impact. Perhaps our assistants and Coach K just aren't as persuasive as they once were. Perhaps the Olympic commitments are having an effect.

Makes you long for those amazing days where we were fielding the top class in the country every other year. No fan can rationally expect that to go on forever, but I sure do miss those days!

I don't know, but in a college basketball world where one to two very strong classes seem to yield championships (as opposed to consistency), we seem to be treading water.

I know others are frustrated with the lack of athletic "star" players as well. That is a post for another day.

Pamtelp

[roywhite]

By all objective standards, the 2008 class and the pending 2009 class look to be very fine recruiting classes. They would be the envy of the vast majority of schools and we will undoubtedly field winning teams with them. Very excited to have those players on board.

That having been said, Duke's recruiting has fallen more than a few notches in the past few years. 3-4 years ago we talked about picking and choosing our players. Never really an accurate description of the process, but the results seemed to suggest we could seemingly get anyone that we wanted. Today, we are working very hard to fill out top 10-25 classes. We simply aren't bring in top classes anymore and our hit rate is much more mortal right now.

I think Roy's arrival has had an impact. He has beaten us like a mule over the past couple of years. Beyond that, I am simply at a loss to explain it. Perhaps the anti-Duke sentiment has had a real impact. Perhaps our assistants and Coach K just aren't as persuasive as they once were. Perhaps the Olympic commitments are having an effect.

Makes you long for those amazing days where we were fielding the top class in the country every other year. No fan can rationally expect that to go on forever, but I sure do miss those days!

I don't know, but in a college basketball world where one to two very strong classes seem to yield championships (as opposed to consistency), we seem to be treading water.

I know others are frustrated with the lack of athletic "star" players as well. That is a post for another day.

Pamtelp

Welcome to the board.

It's hard enough to evaluate fairly our 2008 recruiting class; it's darn near impossible to evaluate our 2009 recruiting class at this point.

Plenty of good days ahead for Duke basketball. I wouldn't trade our team and future for any other college program, particularly one just down the road.

[taiw93]

I look forward to seeing E-Mail and McDonald, friends and rivals in high school, continue their "rivalry" on the college level - I can't think of a better way to continue it than on Tobacco Road. Should be fun in the coming years seeing E-Mail and McDonald go at it on the biggest stage, especially when Elliot and Duke are dominating the rivalry.

[trinity92]

Haven't seen much of LM, but with Nolan, EW, Scheyer, Pocius and maybe Henderson on the roster for 2009-2010, we really have enough guard talent without him. OTOH, we desperately need KB, and would have needed him even if LM came.

While (obviously) they're not absolutely gone, I really don't expect Singler or Henderson to come back for their Junior and Senior seasons, respectively. As far as youtube and recruiting rankings go, EW projects to be GH's replacement. As such, and with McClure graduating this season, I'd like to see us get a superb and athletic SF to join a great PG (hopefully KB) and, of course, that killer PF/C we've been searching for to join Plumlee in the class of 2009.

[CameronCrazy'11]

Yeah, I can see your point. Step back and take a look. We lose Murphy to Florida, end up offereing someone who at the time was thought to be much less of a player in Plumlee, and ends up being better.

Greg Echenique, Turns out somehow his age is different then what it was previously said. Duke doesnt need any kind of distraction like that IMO.

What about Leslie McDonald? A solid player, sure it hurts to miss him. He CAN and WILL be replaced. Most likely by Nick Russell. Who cares WHEN they committ? As long as they are wearing Duke Uniforms, I could care less.

As said by everyone on here, Kenny Boynton is the #1 target. If we miss on him, then there is some need for worry. My understanding that Kenny Boynton is head and shoulders above Leslie McDonald..



Lets take a look to when the 09 class will be freshman. Assuming we have Boynton, and hopefully Gerald Henderson.

Kenny Boynton(FR)
Nolan Smith(JR)
Jon Scheyer(SR)
Gerald Henderson(SR)
Elliot Williams(SO)

Thats 5 players for 3 positions. Now, If we lose Henderson to the draft(very likely) and Boynton doesnt join the Duke family(doubtful). Then we still have 3 above average players at 3 positions. Coach K WILL add a couple more guards to that class. Once again, Relax.

I will worry IF Kenny Boynton does not become a Duke player.

Duke does not have to keep up with UNC. Coach K just needs to fill spots for the team needs, and he is doing that. I almost will promise you that SOME of these Carolina guys will transfer. Most likely only one or two of them. But once again, we do not have to keep up with UNC as far as signing 9 reccruits in two years. That has transfer written all over it.

You're forgetting Singler too. How's this for a lineup in 09-10:

Smith/Boynton (whichever turns out to be better)
Scheyer
Henderson
Singler
Plumlee/Zoubek/Thomas

it's looking like we'll definitely have some good options.

[GopherBlue]

Speculation regarding the Leslie McD decision:

- Who on the Duke staff was the primary recruiter for LM? Might the departure of Coach Dawkins have played in UNC's favor?

- The Kenny Boynton factor: Duke does not seem to hide that KB is their #1 guard priority in 09. His potential arrival on Duke campus may have significantly impacted LM's role on the team. Could LM have been influenced by this? On the flip side, LM to Duke may have negatively affected our chances with KB, so LM to UNC may ultimately be a good thing.

- Was UNC in the KB sweepstakes, and will Roy now back off KB (or vice versa)?

Certainly, the sky is not falling, but it does seem to be a bit more carolina blue today than I prefer it to be :(

[Bob Green]

I think it is time to revisit two great articles from Featherston and Sumner:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=24202

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=24203

For the many new members of the DBR community, the articles linked above are a must read when it comes to recruiting and perspective.

[DukePA]

Um, didn't ol' Roy just win the big one a few years ago? Like in '05? So why is the pressure on ol' Roy to deliver soon any more than the pressure is on Coach K to deliver soon . . . who, incidentally, hasn't won the big one since '01. So does that mean our potential recruits will go elsewhere real quick? Is that what's happening?

I think your logic is bizarre.

The point is that Roy hasn't won the big one with players he recruited. Duke has 3 titles with K-recruited players.

[SupaDave]

UNC has done this before. Back in the day they signed that stellar class with Brian Reese and a bunch of other folks. There was a transfer in that group as well...

[SupaDave]

It also seems that many are overlooking the fact that Duke is very much built for right NOW.

Sure - we'll miss on some recruits but there are SO many players out there. There are the kids that grow 4 inches in a year (like our very own Mason) and the kids who are already starting to peak (Favors is a man) BUT there are so many other factors involved. You never know when a local kid will pop up either... (or a 8 footer in Asheville).

Recruiting will be fine. I've seen the new gym and it's bananas. Gerald Henderson alone could influence recruits this year.

It's the Devils baby! We'll be fine. Diaper dandies come our way on a regular basis.

By the way, I've read several accounts that say that Williams and McDonald have similar types of games. I knew the coaching staff wanted McDonald but never saw it as a need.

[studdlee10]

Has Duke fallen a bit in recruiting? I would definitely appear so, but it's not a problem that cannot be repaired. You have to remember that Duke has a much smaller pool of recruits to choose from than some other programs. While we do allow a certain amount of leniency to recruits, the bottom line is that they have to be somewhat academic oriented in order to find the Duke education appealing. I was in a few classes with Duke players, and while they were given a good deal of breathing room, they still had to earn their grades and go to class. The academic standards and rigors automatically rule out players such as Michael Beasley, Brandon Jennings, and Demar Derozan and players with no interest in academics, ie Ty Lawson, are ruled out as well. Duke has always missed on recruits, as has UNC. But when Duke is only able to offer a handful of players, that issue is magnified greatly. If Duke could offer every player in the top 30-40 like UNC seemingly does, then I'm sure we'd see a few commits by now. Unfortunately, because we are recruiting from a pool of players that are both talented and outstanding students, there is a great deal of demand and competition for their services. The ascension of once great programs back into prominence such as UCLA and Georgetown haven't helped our cause either. It wasn't that long ago that Duke was just about the only school for academic-minded basketball recruits to go. Now we have to compete with the Georgetowns and Stanfords of the world.

So what can be done? I like that Duke is seemingly recruiting more players. Perhaps the Duke staff has rested on their laurels a bit and haven't been as proactive as other schools, so its' good to see that they're keeping in contact with more players. As cheesy as they sound, tactics such as dinner in the Dean Dome, or dancing at Midnight Madness, help humanize coaches and shows that they really want a player. Duke needs to somehow start doing this as well. Adding Chris Carrawell and Nate James to the staff is a step in the right direction.

Leslie was not that big of a recruit for us. While I most certainly would have liked to have him, the fact is is that we are somewhat loaded at his position. Landing Leslie would have prolly meant the end of the Andre Dawkins or Brandon Knight as targets, and to be honest, both those players are heads and shoulders above Leslie in terms of talent and athleticism.

[Lord Ash]

Does this mean we are going to have to listen to years more of the Gerald-Wayne "They are buddies!" stuff, along with appropriate graphic?

*sigh*

[SMO]

Roy kind of rubs it in our face, with recruits, on a same weekend visit. "You saw CIS, now lets have dinner center court at the Dean Dome." Kid wants to play in front of large crowds. Maybe he has not been to a game in Cameron to withness the heightened, special atmosphere. The differences in arenas is one thing that got into this recruit's mind, is my bet.

You may be correct that McDonald thinks he'll be playing in front of a larger crowd, but he should consider that more Duke games are nationally televised. If he wanted exposure, comparing arenas was not the way to measure it.

[sandinmyshoes]

I know people get depressed when Duke doesn't land a good recruit like McD but sometimes I think it is because the Duke coaches saw something they weren't real crazy about and decided not put put on the full-court press.

The way things are going these days I'd rather see Duke recruit guys that will stay around 3 (gulp) years rather than try to recruit a 1 or 2 year wonder.

Duke was high on Love and then it seemed like they went soft and he committed to UCLA. Now he is gone (after 1 year) and UCLA never won the title.

Monroe will play for G-Town for 1 year and then he is gone. I don't think they will be in the running to cut the nets down in the next year or two.

If Duke is letting their recruits know they want someone who will think college ball first and nba second and UNC doesn't care then let them go to UNC.

UNC had the POY this year and never cut down the net. Trust the coaching staff to know more than us and do the right thing. The enjoyment I get is that ol' Roy has had some pretty good teams at UK and UNC and the only time they have cut down the nets is when someone recruited for him. Something tells me ol' Roy can win games but not the big one and that will catch up with UNC. The pressure is on Roy and he better deliver soon or the recruits will go elsewhere real quick.

A lot of wishful thinking in that post. He never won a championship at KU, but was still recruiting well. He's not that far removed from a championship at UNC, and is fresh off another FF. I think we better just deal with the fact that Williams can coach, recruit and maintain a program, and be glad that we have Coach K to counter that.

We had a nice run as THE top program in the ACC, now we have to share it consistently with UNC again, along with the other ACC programs that rotate into the top four from time to time.

[SMO]

I think it is time to revisit two great articles from Featherston and Sumner:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=24202

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=24203

For the many new members of the DBR community, the articles linked above are a must read when it comes to recruiting and perspective.

Bob,
If these articles imply that recruiting is an inexact science where losses loom much larger than gains (at least on this board) and that Duke's recruiting is not in the toilet then they simply have no place on this board. Please do not suggest that the sky is not falling!
jk :p

[bfree]

You're pretty much on target here. Duke is in good shape with some 2010 kids.

Watzone, I don't post a ton, and I was a member of your site (switched to TDD, might switch back), but man oh man... I've heard the "next year is the year" line out of you (and many others) for three years! I remember when it was don't worry about it because we were golden with the #1 player in the 2008 class, then it didn't matter because 2009 was loaded, now we're talking about how good of shape we are with 2010?! I'm just saying, at some point Duke needs to do better than "the next year is the year."

[DukeBlood]

You're forgetting Singler too. How's this for a lineup in 09-10:

Smith/Boynton (whichever turns out to be better)
Scheyer
Henderson
Singler
Plumlee/Zoubek/Thomas

it's looking like we'll definitely have some good options.

I left him out mainly cuz Singler plays the 4 at Duke. Plus theres a chance he may go pro, doubtful but maybe.

[jipops]

Watzone, I don't post a ton, and I was a member of your site (switched to TDD, might switch back), but man oh man... I've heard the "next year is the year" line out of you (and many others) for three years! I remember when it was don't worry about it because we were golden with the #1 player in the 2008 class, then it didn't matter because 2009 was loaded, now we're talking about how good of shape we are with 2010?! I'm just saying, at some point Duke needs to do better than "the next year is the year."

I fail to see what's wrong with being positive. There has been every reason to remain positive and still is. Recruiting is not an exact science and never will be. Duke has never been guaranteed anything and never will be. We're still in the running for some top players. We should be thankful just for that.

We're not Maryland.

[Ignatius07]

I fail to see what's wrong with being positive. There has been every reason to remain positive and still is. Recruiting is not an exact science and never will be. Duke has never been guaranteed anything and never will be. We're still in the running for some top players. We should be thankful just for that.

We're not Maryland.

I think what our friend bfree is trying to say is that it's frustrating after a recruiting miss when somebody tries to downplay its importance by pointing to the next year and then trying to argue that this particular year is actually not as important as originally thought. It circumvents actually analyzing and critiquing our recruiting "misses."

Don't get me wrong, 09 recruiting is far, far from over. And if we get Boynton and another real good player, none of us should really be worried. But if we do miss on Boynton (actually regardless of what else we do, outside of landing Favors), Duke fans will have to face facts and admit that 09 was an enormous whiff, which is a legitimate possibility. Many people argued that 09 was a big year and much deeper than 08, so would be crucial to our future. The "wait till next year!" argument made more sense in what most people admitted was a weak class in 08, more so than with 09.

[bfree]

Thanks, that is a better response, and pretty much right on.


I think what our friend bfree is trying to say is that it's frustrating after a recruiting miss when somebody tries to downplay its importance by pointing to the next year and then trying to argue that this particular year is actually not as important as originally thought. It circumvents actually analyzing and critiquing our recruiting "misses."

Don't get me wrong, 09 recruiting is far, far from over. And if we get Boynton and another real good player, none of us should really be worried. But if we do miss on Boynton (actually regardless of what else we do, outside of landing Favors), Duke fans will have to face facts and admit that 09 was an enormous whiff, which is a legitimate possibility. Many people argued that 09 was a big year and much deeper than 08, so would be crucial to our future. The "wait till next year!" argument made more sense in what most people admitted was a weak class in 08, more so than with 09.

[watzone]

Watzone, I don't post a ton, and I was a member of your site (switched to TDD, might switch back), but man oh man... I've heard the "next year is the year" line out of you (and many others) for three years! I remember when it was don't worry about it because we were golden with the #1 player in the 2008 class, then it didn't matter because 2009 was loaded, now we're talking about how good of shape we are with 2010?! I'm just saying, at some point Duke needs to do better than "the next year is the year.":)

Hey! Don't get mad at me, I'm a recruiting analyst and not a coach:) I'm sorry you get your information or lack of from TDD too. I think you are reading much more into me saying we are in good shape with some kids in 2010 than you should. I am not sure how that translates into wait till next year and that I'm giving up on 09. As has been said, 09 is not over. Duke leads for Boynton IMO and they will sign another player or two. Still, there is a guarantee that someone will now say I said Duke led for Echenique, McDonald, yada, yada when I didn't. I could talk until I am blue in the face and it wouldn't change the fact that some see the wheels coming off, so why waste my breath but so much? It's not Duke's birthright to land the top targets and there will be reason for concern IF they don't feel out this class. I wish Duke could go after anybody, knowing their SAT's were intact. I wish there wern't payoffs, but that's not reality either. All I can say is that if fans see this as a down cycle, then they are truly spoiled beyond repair. Just recently, Duke missed on Erik Murphy and ended up with a better player in Mason Plumlee. Heck, they even got his brother but you don't hear about that and many think it can't happen twice. All you hear is another miss. Show me one single program that doesn't miss often and I will show you the team fans should pull for if they want it on a platter. The loss of McDonald is nowhere near the end of Duke Basketball, nor is Echenique. They cannot help it if they are played by a player like Monroe who talked Duke for two years, nor can they prevent the fact that they are one of the biggest targets of negative recruiting around. The reason for that is the most wins since the year 2000 and 90's, The 80's and late 70's showed sucess too. Three years is a temporary trend, the aforementioned is a hell of a trend. Only five players play at a time and I will guarantee you that Duke will have five quality guys out there at all times while K is the coach which is good enough for me personally. FWIW, this is not all directed at you and more of a soapbox.

[speedevil]

hey everyone,
just wondering why did duke offer both boynton and mcdonald?

both of them are listed as SG and duke already have e.williams coming this fall.

is it really a big lost that mcdonald didnt pick duke?
personally i dont think so, i much rather have boynton on the team in 2 years anyways.

time for the coaching staff to focus on some quality bigs and boynton.

[Bob Green]

hey everyone,
just wondering why did duke offer both boynton and mcdonald?

both of them are listed as SG and duke already have e.williams coming this fall.

Duke is a perimeter oriented team that runs a 1 in - 4 out motion offense. That offense requires an abundance of perimeter players.


is it really a big lost that mcdonald didnt pick duke?

I don't think so, but time will tell.



time for the coaching staff to focus on some quality bigs and boynton.

We signed two bigs in the Class of 2008: Olek Czyz and Miles Plumlee. Mason Plumlee has already signed for 2009, and Brian Zoubek and Lance Thomas both have two years of eligibilty left. We are good shape for bigs. I expect the emphasis will be on signing Boynton followed by securing a point guard and a small forward, but that is just my opinion.

[jv001]

I don't see why so many people are bummed out over us missing out on McDonald. It is not that bad because we are not nearly through with 09 recruiting. And for bashing Watzone, that is crazy. He is the best at what he does. I have not heard him say anything like 'wait till next year or wait till 09. He just give us facts and what he thinks will happen. Recruiting is not an exact science. So what does that make predicting where these 17/18 year old kids will play basketball. The sky is not falling guys. Duke will be ok.

[yancem]

One thing that the "sky is falling" group need to keep in mind is that during Duke's "pick who we want" era of the late 90's and early 00's is that UNC was coached by Guthridge and Doherty during that time. It's a little easier to recruit when you're not competing against a hall of famer a few miles down the road.

[Jaymf7]

It's a little easier to recruit when you're not competing against a hall of famer a few miles down the road.

Not sure that I agree with this -- recall that Doh recruited the 2005 championship team. In my opinion, UNC has had a bit of an edge in getting top-notch NBA-level athletes over the past few decades. The Jordan effect likely played a role in that. That said, we have more than held our own on the court against UNC despite this edge.

IMHO, the recent recruiting classes have reflected Coach K's adjustment to the new NBA one and done rule. Coach K has publicly stated that he generally focuses on players that will be around for at least 2 years. After getting "burnt" by the early NBA aspirations of Livingston, Humphreys and Deng (which left holes in our roster), it looks like we have cooled on some of the very top talents.

I know, McRoberts and Singler (and Monroe and others) were rated very, very high, but I'm sure they credibly stated that they were very committed to Duke and sticking around (at least unless they had an can't-miss opportunity). By requiring such a commitment (and dropping arecruit if you are anot confident in his commitment), we no doubt lose out on a good number of top recruits.

That said, what would you rather have -- a one and done superstar (even Rose or Beasley) or a seasoned but not as elitely talented junior (think Henderson this Fall or Singler next)? Putting aside the junior's contributions during his first two years, I would still prefer the junior.

It will take some time for our guys to "season" and we will lose some transfers, but remember that we have had a very young team after JJ, Shelden and Dockery (and Shav and Boykins and whoever else) left. Even with the supposed "3 year recruiting slump", I think we will see a marked difference as this team begins to have a significant upperclassman presence for the first time in that same period. In the new environment, I am very comfortable with our recruiting (and we will get more big hits).

Just remember, while we all loved watching Deng, Maggette, and Brand play, it is no coincidence that Battier is our favorite alum (although his 4 year tenure is just one of many reasons for that). Guys like Battier, JJ, Langdon, Nate-Dogg and others may never be top-NBA players and did not produce like some one-and-doners as freshmen or sophomores, but the wait was certainly worth it. I am really looking forward to watching the guys we have (and are getting commitments from) grow and win. And they will.

[Charles Wicker]

don't think we should minimize these misses in recruiting; but wonder are they indicative in any way towards the overall perception Duke has developed in recent years. I have felt that a good PR person would serve the program well, in terms of recruiting, quelling rumors, and other biased reports. Will we have a top-notched class in 09, more than likely. K recruits good players year in and year out. Are they future first rounders? We don't know for sure. Our recruits take time to develop. Whereas UNC lands players who are probably more ready to play at the next level alot sooner than ours do.

A barometer I would like to see is; are these future recruits NBA types, or are they four year players with skills best suited for the college game. A team needs both, but I definitely think that will provide the fans more insight into what kind of player we have landed. Yes, I know we cant predict the future, in terms of will a player make it to the next level; but watching one minute of Reggie Love's game tells you he will be a first rounder.

I would like to see us land a real impact and star player who can take over a game at whim. Don't know if this team has that. Henderson is good and has great potential, but there are other intangibles that come into play regarding an impact star players.

[MHTorringjan]

Watzone, I don't post a ton, and I was a member of your site (switched to TDD, might switch back), but man oh man... I've heard the "next year is the year" line out of you (and many others) for three years! I remember when it was don't worry about it because we were golden with the #1 player in the 2008 class, then it didn't matter because 2009 was loaded, now we're talking about how good of shape we are with 2010?! I'm just saying, at some point Duke needs to do better than "the next year is the year."

See, I personally think that this idea of any year being "the year" is pretty useless. There are really very few teams that can have a "the year," and much of the time, those teams don't amount to very much due to defections and transfers. I mean, the last year that UNC had a "the year" and got five players in, Raymond Felton, etc. produced only one championship and a lot of flare-outs.

Also, with the increasing parity in college basketball, more players are seeing more possibilities for winning destinations that will give them exposure and playing time. The likelihood of 5 or 6 star players going to one school is very low is the point (and before one points out that UNC is having one of those years next year, we can't say how that team is going to do right now, the whole inexactness issue being true).

The point I'm trying to make is, we should stop worrying about the perception of our recruiting classes for two, three years down the road and just enjoy the path more than the destination. I'm more interested in seeing the games and the great character of the players that we have going through here than I am about winning national championships (although, granted, those are really nice, too). I mean, sure, better players help us to get better results, but better players are not necessarily better recruits (and vice versa). And with our coaching staff and playing system that we have, we're going to have a lot more wins than losses, regardless of the recruiting rankings.

Anyway, that's my tirade for the day. :-\

M.H.

[JStuart]

From one of the news reports linked on the Headlines section:
McDonald said. "I felt welcome at Duke as well but I had, I don't know, just a gut feeling about North Carolina.McDonald said. "I felt welcome at Duke as well but I had, I don't know, just a gut feeling about North Carolina.

I've had gut feelings about Carolina for more than 50 years, and I can tell you they are not comfortable.:eek:
JStuart



I don't see why so many people are bummed out over us missing out on McDonald. It is not that bad because we are not nearly through with 09 recruiting. And for bashing Watzone, that is crazy. He is the best at what he does. I have not heard him say anything like 'wait till next year or wait till 09. He just give us facts and what he thinks will happen. Recruiting is not an exact science. So what does that make predicting where these 17/18 year old kids will play basketball. The sky is not falling guys. Duke will be ok.

[jv001]

From one of the news reports linked on the Headlines section:
McDonald said. "I felt welcome at Duke as well but I had, I don't know, just a gut feeling about North Carolina.McDonald said. "I felt welcome at Duke as well but I had, I don't know, just a gut feeling about North Carolina.

I've had gut feelings about Carolina for more than 50 years, and I can tell you they are not comfortable.:eek:
JStuart

Yes I've probably had that same gut feeling about the tarholes and no medicine can make it go away. I will not root for McDonald no matter who unc is playing.

[slower]

but watching one minute of Reggie Love's game tells you he will be a first rounder

Try as I might, I really don't understand what you mean.

[Devilsfan]

bfree you bright!

[arnie]

Duke is a perimeter oriented team that runs a 1 in - 4 out motion offense. That offense requires an abundance of perimeter players.



I don't think so, but time will tell.



We signed two bigs in the Class of 2008: Olek Czyz and Miles Plumlee. Mason Plumlee has already signed for 2009, and Brian Zoubek and Lance Thomas both have two years of eligibilty left. We are good shape for bigs. I expect the emphasis will be on signing Boynton followed by securing a point guard and a small forward, but that is just my opinion.

The previous poster wished for quality "bigs"; I don't agree that the group of Z, Thomas, Czyz and Plumlee represent high quality big men - at least not from the perspective of a national championship contender. I agree that we should be stronger in the post next year, but let's face it, we've got a lot of room to improve before our post play is a strength. Hopefully, one of the 4 will break out - but l also realize that it may not happen next year.

[Bob Green]

The previous poster wished for quality "bigs"; I don't agree that the group of Z, Thomas, Czyz and Plumlee represent high quality big men - at least not from the perspective of a national championship contender.

As far as this season is concerned we will just have to wait and see how well our frontcourt players perform. In regard to ongoing recruiting efforts, Mason Plumlee is the #15 rated player in the Class of 2009 and the #3 Power Forward, according to Scout (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2009). Obviously, rankings are not infallible and Mason is going to have to live up to the hype, but I don't see how anyone can deny that Duke has sought out and signed a quality big man.

[Ignatius07]

Obviously, rankings are not infallible and Mason is going to have to live up to the hype, but I don't see how anyone can deny that Duke has sought out and signed a quality big man.

People almost always mean banger/bruiser (eg Shelden, Brand, Boozer - or, for non-Duke guys, Echenique, Brockman et al) when they complain about Duke not getting big men. Obviously both Plumlees are "big" - they are 6'9". But they are not big in terms of having weight to throw around in the post.

[Bob Green]

People almost always mean banger/bruiser (eg Shelden, Brand, Boozer - or, for non-Duke guys, Echenique, Brockman et al) when they complain about Duke not getting big men. Obviously both Plumlees are "big" - they are 6'9". But they are not big in terms of having weight to throw around in the post.

Miles Plumlee is bigger/stronger than most people realize. He is 6-10 225 and has a reputation for loving the weight room. He just may suprise us in terms of ability to bang.

Yes Mason Plumlee is currently slender at 210 pounds, but he is 6-11 and still has a year of high school left.

I realize that I am an optimist (when it comes to Duke basketball) but I am excited about the approaching Plumlee era.

[DukeBlood]

Miles Plumlee is bigger/stronger than most people realize. He is 6-10 225 and has a reputation for loving the weight room. He just may suprise us in terms of ability to bang.

Yes Mason Plumlee is currently slender at 210 pounds, but he is 6-11 and still has a year of high school left.

I realize that I am an optimist (when it comes to Duke basketball) but I am excited about the approaching Plumlee era.

Well said, People forget that losing Murphy and Echenique gained us 2 Plumlee's and perhaps a 3rd one. I for one am very excited about this recruiting class as long as Boynton is wearing a Duke uniform his Freshman year.

Whats the word on who Duke will offer with the last scholarship?

[roywhite]

Miles Plumlee is bigger/stronger than most people realize. He is 6-10 225 and has a reputation for loving the weight room. He just may suprise us in terms of ability to bang.

Yes Mason Plumlee is currently slender at 210 pounds, but he is 6-11 and still has a year of high school left.

I realize that I am an optimist (when it comes to Duke basketball) but I am excited about the approaching Plumlee era.

Right on, Bob. I met and shook the hands of the Plumlees, and I have the same judgment about their size as you did from several thousand miles away! Miles is getting some good development in his arms and shoulders, and Mason looks every bit of 6'11" (Their parents say youngest brother Marshall may be the tallest of the bunch). By the way, Brick Oettinger now has Mason Plumlee #12 in the class of 2009.

I think Mason Plumlee will be a Josh McRoberts type, but with a smile and a shooting touch. :)

[Oriole Way]

Miles Plumlee is bigger/stronger than most people realize. He is 6-10 225 and has a reputation for loving the weight room. He just may suprise us in terms of ability to bang.

Yes Mason Plumlee is currently slender at 210 pounds, but he is 6-11 and still has a year of high school left.

I realize that I am an optimist (when it comes to Duke basketball) but I am excited about the approaching Plumlee era.

I don't share in your optimism, Bob, regarding either Plumlee being a banger, but I sure hope you're right.

I'm a little frustrated that K seems to only recruit finesse 4's and 5's. Don't get me wrong, McRoberts and Singler can play/have played hard-nosed defense and rebound inside, but both players spend a little too much time on the perimeter (especially Singler).

Whenever Mason Plumlee is mentioned in article, phrases like "loves to float around the perimeter" make me cringe. Duke hasn't had a banger in the paint since Shelden Williams, and I really think Duke can be a Final Four team and title contender with an athletic, hard-nosed power forward/center who rebonds like a champ and shoots 60% from the field. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe Patrick Patterson would have made this Duke team national champion by the time he left for the NBA.

I really hope Mason can become a beast inside. I have slightly higher hopes for Miles to be a steady post presence on both sides of the ball, but I'm still concerned about the next couple years inside. We have so many options inside, hopefully one of Lance, Z, Miles, or Olek takes some extra initiative.

[mo.st.dukie]

I don't share in your optimism, Bob, regarding either Plumlee being a banger, but I sure hope you're right.

I'm a little frustrated that K seems to only recruit finesse 4's and 5's. Don't get me wrong, McRoberts and Singler can play/have played hard-nosed defense and rebound inside, but both players spend a little too much time on the perimeter (especially Singler).

Whenever Mason Plumlee is mentioned in article, phrases like "loves to float around the perimeter" make me cringe. Duke hasn't had a banger in the paint since Shelden Williams, and I really think Duke can be a Final Four team and title contender with an athletic, hard-nosed power forward/center who rebonds like a champ and shoots 60% from the field. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe Patrick Patterson would have made this Duke team national champion by the time he left for the NBA.

I really hope Mason can become a beast inside. I have slightly higher hopes for Miles to be a steady post presence on both sides of the ball, but I'm still concerned about the next couple years inside. We have so many options inside, hopefully one of Lance, Z, Miles, or Olek takes some extra initiative.

Syracuse in 2003 didn't really have much of a "banger" inside. Hakim Warrick was listed at 6'8 218, though he did have freakishly long arms, and Craig Forth was a slow-footed 7 ft. Of course they had Melo who was 6'8 but was more of a perimeter player. It doesn't happen often that you see a title team without a "banger" but it is possible. In fact, I think we'll look alot like the Cuse 03 squad next year, Paulus/McNamara, Melo/Hendo (he won't have to put up the same numbers), Singler/Warrick (in an ideal world Thomas would be like Warrick and Singler like Melo but I doubt that happens). And UCONN in 99 had Jake Voshkul (sp?) hardly a stud but they beat possibly Duke's best "banger" that year.

[speedevil]

And UCONN in 99 had Jake Voshkul (sp?) hardly a stud but they beat possibly Duke's best "banger" that year.

your exactly right.

uconn beat duke in the '99 Finals against Duke's best "banger" elton brand.

the point ur missing is that duke made it to the championship game!!

the past 2 seasons w/o a "banger" duke has not made it to the sweet sixteen.

duke already has the perimenter players, duke needs to focus on recruiting 1-2 "bangers" in order to move to the sweet sixteen and contend for the championship. otherwise its going to be another short tournament for us.

henderson, singler, thomas they are getting worn out guarding bigger players and then late in the year, teams are punishing duke inside.

[CameronCrazy'11]

Really we just need someone to rebound, rebound, and rebound some more. Our lack of great rebounding definitely lost us some games last year (WVU outrebounded us 45-19). If the Plumlee brothers are realy 6'10" and 225-ish then they should definitely be able to grab some boards.

[mo.st.dukie]

your exactly right.

uconn beat duke in the '99 Finals against Duke's best "banger" elton brand.

the point ur missing is that duke made it to the championship game!!

the past 2 seasons w/o a "banger" duke has not made it to the sweet sixteen.

duke already has the perimenter players, duke needs to focus on recruiting 1-2 "bangers" in order to move to the sweet sixteen and contend for the championship. otherwise its going to be another short tournament for us.

henderson, singler, thomas they are getting worn out guarding bigger players and then late in the year, teams are punishing duke inside.


The point of my post was that a team can win a title even without a stud "banger" inside, you don't need AA type big men, what you do need is big men that can play defense and rebound to compliment a hopefully great group of guards.