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Bluedawg
05-31-2008, 01:19 PM
Duke University introduced Kevin White, who has been at Notre Dame University, as its new vice president and director of athletics at a news conference on Saturday afternoon.

"Simply stated, I am thrilled to be coming to Duke," White said. "I have the highest regard for the institution, and I'm excited about the opportunities in front of us."

http://wral.com/sports/story/2969179/

Personally I like the hire.

Truth
05-31-2008, 01:33 PM
Just watched the press conference. I'm still digesting the content, but there were no glaring gotchas. Seemed like he was genuinely happy to be in this position at Duke.

He was frank in the sense that he openly admitted as to not yet having much knowledge about the "unique challenges" that Duke faces. That said, he did come across well overall. Curious to hear others first impressions..

Also, there were a few interesting remarks about him not having been a candidate a few days ago. Not terribly sure what, if anything, to read into that...

laxbluedevil
05-31-2008, 02:07 PM
Kevin White still needs to be approved by the Board of Trustees and White hired George O'Leary right before firing him, so it's not a done deal thankfully. White also hired Willingham who was fired after 3 years. After only half of Weis' first year ever as a head coach White gave him a 10 year contract for $30-40 million. Then under no pressure Weis just had perhaps the worst season in ND history, 3-9. ND fans wanted White gone like Duke fans wanted Alleva gone.

Why didn't Duke just hire Ron Wellman from Wake Forest who did the impossible by making the worst program in the nation ACC football champs? He was named the best AD in the nation multiple times including just a few days ago.

An even better choice might be Debbie Yow at Maryland, who hired Frese who turned losers into national champs in 4 years, and Friedgen who won an ACC title his first year with a perennial loser football program. She also hired great coaches for lacrosse and other sports, and doesn't seem to have made any bad hires or bad moves at all.

Those are just 2 superior choices in the ACC, undoubtedly there are dozens more around the country. Why hire someone ND didn't even want who was responsible for so many high profile failures?

White has not been hired yet by Duke and still needs to be approved by the Board of Trustees. There hasn't been any real discussion of the top candidates especially White so the search should only be starting.

Forget White, let Duke know it's clearly the wrong choice. Everyone should get behind Yow, or Wellman, or another good AD.

DukeVu
05-31-2008, 02:10 PM
It appears from Coach K's glowing remarks that he and Brey could have had a big hand in this hire.

devilirium
05-31-2008, 02:45 PM
^Good thought on Wellman, but he's not leaving Wake to come to Duke. Laugh all you want, but Wake would match anything we could financially to keep him in Winston. He's also got Wake's football team rolling. Not sure he'd want to embrace that challenge again, but I like your thinking about that.

I don't have anything against Yow, but a ton of Maryland alums would help her pack. She's not well received up there.

I'm just glad that we didn't go with Mike Cragg. Every Duke insider and media person that I've spoken with has said that this guy is as arrogant as they come. I think Leo could've been a good hire, but on the other hand, it's also nice to see Duke go outside of the family. Also, I agree with DBR, the athletic program will be run like a business. Not like the type of operation from a guy who got his MBA in 1 year at Lehigh University and who headed up some pharmacy department at Duke.

OldPhiKap
05-31-2008, 02:50 PM
ND tries to lead the big boys in hoops and pigskin. You can't blame the AD every time they do not reach the pinnacle, but he would not have had/kept the job there if he wasn't committed to those programs.

Good hire. GTHC.

Bluedawg
05-31-2008, 04:24 PM
Dave Nathan's analysis of Duke's new AD (http://wral.com/sports/999thefan/audio/2969867/)

OZZIE4DUKE
05-31-2008, 05:21 PM
Don't know anything about the man. I am, of course, disappointed that it isn't me and/or DukeTaylor. But we've got to give him a chance and support him. I have changed my signature and location accordingly. :(

His biggest challenge is to not screw up the many many things that are right with Duke Athletics. And as a friend of mine said to me, maybe he can get the new bathrooms built at Wallace Wade sooner rather than later.

Jarhead
05-31-2008, 07:07 PM
Kevin White still needs to be approved by the Board of Trustees and White hired George O'Leary right before firing him, so it's not a done deal thankfully. White also hired Willingham who was fired after 3 years. After only half of Weis' first year ever as a head coach White gave him a 10 year contract for $30-40 million. Then under no pressure Weis just had perhaps the worst season in ND history, 3-9. ND fans wanted White gone like Duke fans wanted Alleva gone.

Why didn't Duke just hire Ron Wellman from Wake Forest who did the impossible by making the worst program in the nation ACC football champs? He was named the best AD in the nation multiple times including just a few days ago.

An even better choice might be Debbie Yow at Maryland, who hired Frese who turned losers into national champs in 4 years, and Friedgen who won an ACC title his first year with a perennial loser football program. She also hired great coaches for lacrosse and other sports, and doesn't seem to have made any bad hires or bad moves at all.

Those are just 2 superior choices in the ACC, undoubtedly there are dozens more around the country. Why hire someone ND didn't even want who was responsible for so many high profile failures?

White has not been hired yet by Duke and still needs to be approved by the Board of Trustees. There hasn't been any real discussion of the top candidates especially White so the search should only be starting.

Forget White, let Duke know it's clearly the wrong choice. Everyone should get behind Yow, or Wellman, or another good AD.
Trust me. It's a done deal. The Trustee vote will be by acclamation. The search is over, and it isn't going to restart. Any way you look at it, it would have been bad form to go after Wellman or Yow, unless they had applied for the job. There is no indication that they did, and if they did, they did not make the cut. The search committee did a good job, in my view. Anyhow welcome to the DBR. Too bad your first shot missed the backboard.

SMO
05-31-2008, 08:16 PM
Kevin White still needs to be approved by the Board of Trustees and White hired George O'Leary right before firing him, so it's not a done deal thankfully. White also hired Willingham who was fired after 3 years. After only half of Weis' first year ever as a head coach White gave him a 10 year contract for $30-40 million. Then under no pressure Weis just had perhaps the worst season in ND history, 3-9. ND fans wanted White gone like Duke fans wanted Alleva gone.

Why didn't Duke just hire Ron Wellman from Wake Forest who did the impossible by making the worst program in the nation ACC football champs? He was named the best AD in the nation multiple times including just a few days ago.

An even better choice might be Debbie Yow at Maryland, who hired Frese who turned losers into national champs in 4 years, and Friedgen who won an ACC title his first year with a perennial loser football program. She also hired great coaches for lacrosse and other sports, and doesn't seem to have made any bad hires or bad moves at all.

Those are just 2 superior choices in the ACC, undoubtedly there are dozens more around the country. Why hire someone ND didn't even want who was responsible for so many high profile failures?

White has not been hired yet by Duke and still needs to be approved by the Board of Trustees. There hasn't been any real discussion of the top candidates especially White so the search should only be starting.

Forget White, let Duke know it's clearly the wrong choice. Everyone should get behind Yow, or Wellman, or another good AD.

I clicked on this thread wondering how many posts it would take for someone to say something negative about this hire. My guess was 5. I totally underestimated the critical tone of the DBR posters! It only took 3!

ehdg
05-31-2008, 09:31 PM
Okay so this pick caught me totally off guard. I didn't see this one coming at all. I hope he's the right guy for the job. Sounds like he know's how to handle it from a business side so that should help us. As for the complaints folks had about him I bet he's learned and won't be handing out huge extensions so fast this time around. I think we need to give him our full support and see how things develop. Least we know he's not Joe Alleva and for that alone it's a huge improvement!!

OldPhiKap
06-01-2008, 08:06 AM
K likes him.

Cut's son played for him at Ol' Miss.

He has worked with small private schools competing in big leagues.



Good enough for me.

laxbluedevil
06-01-2008, 11:27 AM
Forgot to mention White also extended Bob Davie's contract then fired him the next season, so he hired/rehired 4 bad football coaches at Notre Dame in 5 years. Is that an NCAA record? Seems that most people who wanted a proven AD wanted Wellman or Yow or someone similar. Who were the candidates that were interviewed?

Duke has won 3 of 14 mens basketball final fours, and 1 of 21 final fours in other team sports (mens soccer in 1986). And that doesn't count when Duke was #1 and didn't even make the final four like 98, 02, 06, in mens basketball, and 04, 05, 07 in womens basketball. Surely there must be others. So 10% winning percentage instead of 25-50% considering Duke is often #1 and not just top 4. Less than 5% for Duke coaches not named Krzyzewski.

It seems to me that isn't "good enough". Duke's prestige has gotten amazing players for the same reason as perennial #1 Stanford, heck even better without the tough admissions of Stanford. But then Duke often gets outcoached in the postseason. Womens golf has 4 national titles to equal all other sports combined because Duke's great golfers don't really need coaching or even heavy recruiting to flock to Duke and dominate. Former AD Butters hired some great coaches including all 3 that won national titles for Duke. Alleva hired some bad ones. I think Yow or Wellman would get winners that could win 25-50% of the final fours instead of 4-10%. Maryland has 17 national titles since Yow took over in the 90s, despite rarely having the best players.

Don't Duke's best players and best fans deserve great coaches and ADs, even the best? Duke athletics isn't acting like it wants to be #1 as they claim. White was the Alleva of ND and their fans seem pleased he left kind of like Mich St fans when McCallie left. How is that good enough?

I just think Duke can do better with Yow or Wellman or maybe the AD of SMU, Florida, Kansas, or Louisville. Duke is one of the top athletic programs and easiest to win at along with perennial #1 Stanford.

gotham devil
06-01-2008, 01:33 PM
Forgot to mention White also extended Bob Davie's contract then fired him the next season, so he hired/rehired 4 bad football coaches at Notre Dame in 5 years. Is that an NCAA record? Seems that most people who wanted a proven AD wanted Wellman or Yow or someone similar. Who were the candidates that were interviewed?

Duke has won 3 of 14 mens basketball final fours, and 1 of 21 final fours in other team sports (mens soccer in 1986). And that doesn't count when Duke was #1 and didn't even make the final four like 98, 02, 06, in mens basketball, and 04, 05, 07 in womens basketball. Surely there must be others. So 10% winning percentage instead of 25-50% considering Duke is often #1 and not just top 4. Less than 5% for Duke coaches not named Krzyzewski.

It seems to me that isn't "good enough". Duke's prestige has gotten amazing players for the same reason as perennial #1 Stanford, heck even better without the tough admissions of Stanford. But then Duke often gets outcoached in the postseason. Womens golf has 4 national titles to equal all other sports combined because Duke's great golfers don't really need coaching or even heavy recruiting to flock to Duke and dominate. Former AD Butters hired some great coaches including all 3 that won national titles for Duke. Alleva hired some bad ones. I think Yow or Wellman would get winners that could win 25-50% of the final fours instead of 4-10%. Maryland has 17 national titles since Yow took over in the 90s, despite rarely having the best players.

Don't Duke's best players and best fans deserve great coaches and ADs, even the best? Duke athletics isn't acting like it wants to be #1 as they claim. White was the Alleva of ND and their fans seem pleased he left kind of like Mich St fans when McCallie left. How is that good enough?

I just think Duke can do better with Yow or Wellman or maybe the AD of SMU, Florida, Kansas, or Louisville. Duke is one of the top athletic programs and easiest to win at along with perennial #1 Stanford.

You'd be hard pressed to find ND fans that regard Coach Weis as a "bad hire."
A more apt point would have been to what degree was Kevin White involved in the hiring of Charlie Weis. It is widely perceived that he was told this (Weis) would be the successor by the BOT, after a botched run at Urban Meyer.

Your whining about performances at a single elimination Final Four comes across as ungrateful for even being put in the enviable position of competing for championships.

laxbluedevil
06-01-2008, 02:24 PM
Actually, White hired/rehired 4 bad football coaches in 4 years at Notre Dame, wow. How is that supposed to help Duke football more than say Wellman or Yow or ADs at SMU, Florida, Kansas?

Weis just had perhaps the worst season in ND's long football history, and White gave him a $30-40 million 10 year contract extension SIX GAMES into the first head coaching job of his life. If White wasn't very involved in hiring coaches, could Duke be better served with an AD respected enough at his institution to be more involved in hiring coaches, like Wellman or Yow?

Actually the 1 of 21 final fours "whining" as you call it came from other fans on another site. Consider this, could it be that Duke with its prestige like perennial #1 Stanford is able to get phenomenal players that can make any coach's job easier to get to the final four? And could Duke then be outcoached to win only 1 of those 21 final fours? Possible? Impossible? Plausible?

How did Northwestern win 4 straight women's lacrosse titles when there are no recruits anywhere near the midwest and its freezing cold out there? Shouldn't Duke be better than Northwestern in that and other sports, like softball?

One thing White should do immediately is add womens softball as a scholarship sport and hire a great coach. That's long overdue at Duke with 8 ACC schools already playing a sport that schools like Stanford and Northwestern dominate. That would be starting things off on the right foot.

Jarhead
06-01-2008, 03:08 PM
Take a look at this article linked by the DBR front page in the article on White's appointment (http://www.blueandgold.com/content/?aid=5468). It gives a different slant on ND football and its travails over the last several years. It must have been exasperating for White getting so much interference in football matters from the trustees and the president who were mostly responsible for the bad moves you attribute to White. I can't imagine being an Irish Catholic as a reason for hiring a football coach. Well, that was why White was directed to hire O'Leary. It appears that White's job was to stand out there, make the announcements, and suffer the slings and arrows of the media and fans. Overall his tenure shows plenty of success at Notre Dame. I look forward to his leadership at Duke.

laxbluedevil
06-01-2008, 04:40 PM
Isn't that what people said about Alleva, that he had no real power and was there to take the blame for coaching failures? Alleva was said to be shut out of the hiring of the latest football and baseball coaches. If that's the case does it matter who Duke's AD is? I just hope whoever hires coaches for Duke hires the best in the country. There have been too many that were never head coaches before Duke, or never won much if they were. Duke's athletes and fans are the best and deserve nothing but the best coaches and administrators.

I just don't get your comment about "bad form" to go after Yow or Wellman. DBR recommended Wellman right off the bat, so did most everyone else who wanted a proven AD. Bad form? Should Duke only go after coaches or ADs who are unemployed or looking to escape places they're not wanted like Alleva or White and maybe McCallie? Seems like the truly great coaches or ADs are ones Duke has to go after instead of the other way around, like Paul Johnson or Wellman. Who was interviewed?

I can't think of a single better opportunity than Duke for an AD or coach for that matter. Duke is like Stanford before it became a perennial #1 juggernaut, with easier admissions. Only things left is for Duke to get serious about hiring proven coaches. And not have the fewest athletic scholarships in the ACC after explaining why that was ever the case.

Starting a softball program with a top coach is just a first step. Duke should be top 2 in NACDA Cup rankings every year. Stanford's never been challenged for the thing despite making some poor hires. It's not because of CA recruiting or "endowed" scholarships. Duke is within driving distance of half the US population, has lower standards, and if SU has enough cash to endow all their scholarships, Duke has enough to fund a decent number without endowing them until it can afford to.

Some seem to be advocating NO new scholarships (or bathrooms at Wade), until only after HUNDREDS of MILLIONS are spent first to endow the few schollies Duke already has at $1 million each. To stay with the fewest scholarships in the ACC for decades, whose brilliant idea is that? No wonder Duke has little money for coaches, facilities, or more scholarships.

Let's just give out 300-400 schollies per year like every other school, get the best coaches who want the top recruits lining up for a Duke degree, and win everything. Then worry about endowing scholarships later if ever, really don't see the point. Does Duke foresee athletic revenue and overall revenue dropping to zero at some point? I don't think recruits care if recruits 100 years from now already have their scholarship paid for.

gvtucker
06-01-2008, 05:40 PM
I'm just glad that we didn't go with Mike Cragg. Every Duke insider and media person that I've spoken with has said that this guy is as arrogant as they come. I think Leo could've been a good hire, but on the other hand, it's also nice to see Duke go outside of the family. Also, I agree with DBR, the athletic program will be run like a business. Not like the type of operation from a guy who got his MBA in 1 year at Lehigh University and who headed up some pharmacy department at Duke.
Regardless of whether or not White was a good hire, the way you're describing Mike Cragg is the complete opposite of my impression. Arrogant is the last word I'd think of to describe him. And in a world of arrogant people, that's a nice change of pace.

devilirium
06-01-2008, 05:42 PM
Isn't that what people said about Alleva, that he had no real power and was there to take the blame for coaching failures? Alleva was said to be shut out of the hiring of the latest football and baseball coaches. If that's the case does it matter who Duke's AD is? I just hope whoever hires coaches for Duke hires the best in the country. There have been too many that were never head coaches before Duke, or never won much if they were. Duke's athletes and fans are the best and deserve nothing but the best coaches and administrators.

With regard to Bayou Joe, he made his own bed with the hiring of Carl Franks. Hell, I could do what he did with that search. He made one phone call. One. Uno. That was why the committee was formed for football.

Looking back, the committee made a mistake of hiring Ted Roof, but most people (myself included) thought that this was a good hire at the time. Joe rubberstamped that hire--unlike Franks. But again, Joe really didn't conduct a search, either. Four candidates to interview? Dick Biddle, Bobby Ross, Hue Jackson, and Ted Roof?

And then Joe had the nerve to say at the presser regarding Roof's firing "well because we're Duke then people will flock to this job". Well, yes, this time they did. But it had a lot to do with the commitment from the administration (that Joe should've sought numerous years before) and dollars dangled.

I think the coaches have done a reasonable job given the 50 million budget that Duke has. Stanford has something 6 X that. They should lead the Sears Cup every year....but where are their championships in the revenue sports? LOL, they won their men's basketball championships as a result of the Helms Committee. They've been to one FF in 60 years. They haven't been relevant in football since the early 70's...excluding a freak upset of Southern Cal last year--that same team lost to Notre Dame.

OldPhiKap
06-01-2008, 06:19 PM
At the risk of being overly simplistic:

Coach K is happy with the hire. Who here knows more about it than him?

Coach Cut coached White's kid, and no doubt was consulted on the search. Given the commitment Duke is showing to him and his staff, one would assume that he is happy. Who knows more about it than him?

Mike Brey gives big kudos. Mike is the best of the Duke coaching tree so far.



Not to discount all of the naysayers here, but I'll take those three's opinions over mine or anyone here.

laxbluedevil
06-01-2008, 06:39 PM
Duke has $8.2 billion in endowment and assets managed by its investment company DUMAC as of Feb 2008, which is about $7 billion more than it had a decade ago. Duke's investment returns routinely lead the nation, earning over 25% in one year. How is it possible that Duke still funds the fewest scholarships in the ACC with 250 or so? Duke could endow 350 scholarships like Stanford today if it wanted to but where's the rush and what's the point? Recruits don't care if Stanford has 350 endowed scholarships or Duke gives out 350 unendowed scholarships.

Funding 100 extra scholarships per year would cost $5 million, or one half of one percent of the at least $1 billion Duke makes in investment returns every year. That money isn't going anywhere or doing anything, it's just sitting in the bank growing. Duke had none of that just 10 years ago but Duke is still acting like a pauper instead of the multibillionaire it is.

Stanford had already endowed all 350 or so of its scholarships a decade ago and was winning every Sears Cup when it may have been worth $8 billion or so. In fact they might have done it 15-20 years ago when they were worth far less than Duke has now. So what's the excuse for Duke not doing the same or even coming close to that?

Just add sports and scholarships and top coaches. Right now Duke has so much cash it wouldn't know what the hell to do with it all after endowing all scholarships and funding everything imaginable. Imagine what it will be in 10 years. At a minimum Duke could fund 100 extra scholarships per year now. Later when it has a few spare trillions lying around it can endow them all, whatever. Harvard has at least $35 billion and terrible sports. If Duke keeps holding back on adding sports like softball and insisting on having the fewest scholarships in the ACC, the commitment to athletics really has to be questioned.

Maybe Kevin White can get Duke its own basketball contract like ND had its own NBC football deal. No way Duke should be giving Clemson as much basketball TV revenue as it gets from ESPN, while Clemson and the football schools get to keep their stadium revenues away from Duke. The ACC is a trainwreck with 12 schools anyway, they can be 11 without Duke. That's one good thing that might come from the Kevin White hiring.

Bluedawg
06-01-2008, 06:49 PM
Comments on Kevin White [http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1092171.html]


"That is why [we] are so fond of him and why we will really miss him," Brey said. "I think Duke feels they have a good one in Kevin, but they don't have any idea yet of just how good of a guy they are getting."


ACC commissioner John Swofford has worked with White on the Bowl Championship Series committee and called the hire "not just a home run, but a grand slam home run for Duke."

Meet Kevin White: Press Conference http://www.wral.com/sports/video/2970917/

Everyone wanted someone who understood the academic side of Duke as well as the athletic side. I think we got a good guy!

Duvall
06-01-2008, 06:58 PM
Just add sports and scholarships and top coaches. Right now Duke has so much cash it wouldn't know what the hell to do with it all after endowing all scholarships and funding everything imaginable. Imagine what it will be in 10 years. At a minimum Duke could fund 100 extra scholarships per year now. Later when it has a few spare trillions lying around it can endow them all, whatever. Harvard has at least $35 billion and terrible sports. If Duke keeps holding back on adding sports like softball and insisting on having the fewest scholarships in the ACC, the commitment to athletics really has to be questioned.

Oddly enough, there are some people that think that a major research institution has higher priorities than fielding a softball team.

I'd rather go back to talking about John Riek.

Devil in the Blue Dress
06-01-2008, 08:08 PM
At the risk of being overly simplistic:

Coach K is happy with the hire. Who here knows more about it than him?

Coach Cut coached White's kid, and no doubt was consulted on the search. Given the commitment Duke is showing to him and his staff, one would assume that he is happy. Who knows more about it than him?

Mike Brey gives big kudos. Mike is the best of the Duke coaching tree so far.



Not to discount all of the naysayers here, but I'll take those three's opinions over mine or anyone here.

I agree with what you've said! Your comments are concise and put this hire into a realistic context.

Inonehand
06-01-2008, 08:19 PM
At the risk of being overly simplistic:

Coach K is happy with the hire. Who here knows more about it than him?

Coach Cut coached White's kid, and no doubt was consulted on the search. Given the commitment Duke is showing to him and his staff, one would assume that he is happy. Who knows more about it than him?

Mike Brey gives big kudos. Mike is the best of the Duke coaching tree so far.



Not to discount all of the naysayers here, but I'll take those three's opinions over mine or anyone here.


White's kid did not play football.

Inonehand
06-01-2008, 08:22 PM
Regardless of whether or not White was a good hire, the way you're describing Mike Cragg is the complete opposite of my impression. Arrogant is the last word I'd think of to describe him. And in a world of arrogant people, that's a nice change of pace.

Exactly what I was thinking. Obviously this guy doesn't know Mike OR the insiders and media people that I do.

roywhite
06-01-2008, 08:49 PM
To laxbluedevil's points on Duke's funding:

Good news that the endowment is growing significantly; Duke has played catch-up against older top academic institutions such as the Ivys and is now reaching the approx. level of Columbia, Cornell, and Penn. The most recent figures I see are an endowment of approx. $6 Bil for Duke in 2007, with Stanford at $17.2 Bil, Yale at $22.9 Bil, and Harvard at $34.9 Bil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._colleges_and_universities_by_endowmen t

I'm not clear as to Stanford's endowment of athletic scholarships; my understanding was that they were financed through donations outside of the general endowment. Is that correct?

I would certainly like to see Duke have more endowed athletic scholarships, but it's no small task with an annual full scholarship cost approaching $50k. I expect this is a priority for new AD Kevin White. Do we seriously consider using general endowment funds to do this?

sagegrouse
06-01-2008, 09:03 PM
Duke has $8.2 billion in endowment and assets managed by its investment company DUMAC as of Feb 2008, which is about $7 billion more than it had a decade ago. Duke's investment returns routinely lead the nation, earning over 25% in one year. How is it possible that Duke still funds the fewest scholarships in the ACC with 250 or so?

The University has other (higher?) priorities than more athletic scholarships. As you may know, Brodhead's top priority is endowment funds to support need-based scholarships.

I think you will find that, as at Duke, the Stanford endowed athletic scholarships were given by individual donors for that specific purpose. It isn't too surprising that Stanford alums and supporters, at the epicenter of Silicon Valley, have provided untold millions for almost every conceivable need.

The Iron Dukes is a top-flight organization that has the mission to raise funds to support athletics. Kevin White will also be asked to provide personal leadership to the effort.

I agree with you BTW that universities like Duke are being neither creative nor aggressive in applying their huge endowments to fulfill their missions.

sagegrouse

OZZIE4DUKE
06-01-2008, 09:24 PM
First, welcome to the boards, and keep posting.

From your name, are you a current or former lax player at Duke? Perhaps a graduating senior?

Your first post in this thread was your first post on the boards, and now you're up to 8 as I write this. Your tone indicates to me that you have an ax to grind, and I'd like to know why? Is it because your are/were a lax player and are you, shall we say, ticked off at Joe? At Brodhead? At the administration as a whole? If so, I can understand that and knowing that will put your posts into context. If not, what's up?

Wellman at Wake would certainly have been a great hire for Duke, maybe Yow as well (but I think less so). But ACC conference teams generally don't go after other conference teams' employees, be they head coach or AD. Assistant coaches, who would be getting a promotion (or were fired) are fair game.

arnie
06-01-2008, 09:30 PM
First, welcome to the boards, and keep posting.

From your name, are you a current or former lax player at Duke? Perhaps a graduating senior?

Your first post in this thread was your first post on the boards, and now you're up to 8 as I write this. Your tone indicates to me that you have an ax to grind, and I'd like to know why? Is it because your are/were a lax player and are you, shall we say, ticked off at Joe? At Brodhead? At the administration as a whole? If so, I can understand that and knowing that will put your posts into context. If not, what's up?

Wellman at Wake would certainly have been a great hire for Duke, maybe Yow as well (but I think less so). But ACC conference teams generally don't go after other conference teams' employees, be they head coach or AD. Assistant coaches, who would be getting a promotion (or were fired) are fair game.

Despite what many may think of White's football hires or the concern that he may have left Notre Dame rather than be fired in 1-2 years, he appears 100 times more qualified than his predecessor. I think Duke has sent a message to all that we will try to take all sports seriously.

I also believe a women's softball team will be in place soon - far too much exposure for the sport to simply ignore it.

Surfsideron
06-01-2008, 09:31 PM
Personally I like the hire.

This will prove to be a mistake. His track record at Notre Dame is adequate at best and tragic at worst.

They needed a football man.....not some Ivy League wannabe. Duke will be going only as far as Cut can take them in football. Thankfully the basketball program is insulated from any outside influences.

Jarhead
06-01-2008, 09:41 PM
Isn't that what people said about Alleva, that he had no real power and was there to take the blame for coaching failures? Alleva was said to be shut out of the hiring of the latest football and baseball coaches. If that's the case does it matter who Duke's AD is? I just hope whoever hires coaches for Duke hires the best in the country. There have been too many that were never head coaches before Duke, or never won much if they were. Duke's athletes and fans are the best and deserve nothing but the best coaches and administrators.

I just don't get your comment about "bad form" to go after Yow or Wellman. DBR recommended Wellman right off the bat, so did most everyone else who wanted a proven AD. Bad form? Should Duke only go after coaches or ADs who are unemployed or looking to escape places they're not wanted like Alleva or White and maybe McCallie? Seems like the truly great coaches or ADs are ones Duke has to go after instead of the other way around, like Paul Johnson or Wellman. Who was interviewed?

I can't think of a single better opportunity than Duke for an AD or coach for that matter. Duke is like Stanford before it became a perennial #1 juggernaut, with easier admissions. Only things left is for Duke to get serious about hiring proven coaches. And not have the fewest athletic scholarships in the ACC after explaining why that was ever the case.

Starting a softball program with a top coach is just a first step. Duke should be top 2 in NACDA Cup rankings every year. Stanford's never been challenged for the thing despite making some poor hires. It's not because of CA recruiting or "endowed" scholarships. Duke is within driving distance of half the US population, has lower standards, and if SU has enough cash to endow all their scholarships, Duke has enough to fund a decent number without endowing them until it can afford to.

Some seem to be advocating NO new scholarships (or bathrooms at Wade), until only after HUNDREDS of MILLIONS are spent first to endow the few schollies Duke already has at $1 million each. To stay with the fewest scholarships in the ACC for decades, whose brilliant idea is that? No wonder Duke has little money for coaches, facilities, or more scholarships.

Let's just give out 300-400 schollies per year like every other school, get the best coaches who want the top recruits lining up for a Duke degree, and win everything. Then worry about endowing scholarships later if ever, really don't see the point. Does Duke foresee athletic revenue and overall revenue dropping to zero at some point? I don't think recruits care if recruits 100 years from now already have their scholarship paid for.

It was Alleva that made the bad choices at Duke. At Notre Dame, it was the trustees and the president that made the bad choices. Alleva was properly blamed, but Kevin White was not to blame for those choices.

Simply put, I would consider it bad form for Duke to try to hire an AD or a coach from another ACC school. Maybe it's happened before, but I don't recall it. Wellman would be a catch, but I didn't see his name on the list of applicants. I don't know what you see in Yow. Please explain. Just what does having a softball team have to do with the selection of a new AD? How does Stanford's situation have any connection with hiring Kevin White? Are you suggesting that winning the Director's Cup should be a requirement for the new AD? Stanford is a lot richer than Duke, and allocates virtually unlimited funds to its non-revenue sports. They don't do to well in the revenue sports, though, do they?

Just how do the bathrooms at Wade fit in to the selection? Aren't endowed scholarships a good idea just about everywhere, and what does that have to do with the selection of White? Recently the University published a paper on the new directions for DUAA. It is what gave us the funds to go out and get Dave Cutcliffe and his staff. That took a lot of money. A lot more money has been allocated to fix the bathrooms at Wade among other things, but the City of Durham would not give the necessary permits unless Duke took some actions that Duke did not want to do. A sidewalk and removing trees along Basset Drive comes to mind.

Sorry that you are so unhappy with Dr. White. I think that you are way off base on this.

Jarhead
06-01-2008, 10:01 PM
This will prove to be a mistake. His track record at Notre Dame is adequate at best and tragic at worst.

They needed a football man.....not some Ivy League wannabe. Duke will be going only as far as Cut can take them in football. Thankfully the basketball program is insulated from any outside influences.
I'm with Bluedawg. I like the hire. I don't agree with your assessment if White's track record. I have read everything I could find about him, and my assessment is that he was burdened by the poor judgments of his president and the trustees particularly in football. He did a commendable job at Notre Dame, and I have more faith in what Coach K, Coach Cutcliffe and the search committee have to say about him. If you have something to back up your assessment, please share it with us.

devilirium
06-01-2008, 10:44 PM
You're correct about the unwritten rule about coaches moving to other ACC institutions. Off the top of my head, I can think of only a few HC moves:

1) Jim Tatum (Maryland to UNC)
2) Bobby Ross (Maryland to GA Tech)
3) Tom O'Brien (BC to NC State)

Also, I'm not sure what softball has to do with Duke. Just another sport to appease some Title IX dork.

As far as AD's are concerned, I can't think of a single instance. It's just not done in the ACC like it is in the SEC and a few other leagues.

devildeac
06-02-2008, 07:24 AM
I'd rather go back to talking about John Riek.

I have been gone for a few days. Are we still recruiting him:o;):rolleyes:?

OldPhiKap
06-02-2008, 07:50 AM
White's kid did not play football.

I may have misread a prior report, then. A quote (goduke.com) which makes me think Cutcliffe ceratinly knew his kid (and thus must have had some relationship with him):




“I have known Kevin White for quite some time now and I think he and his family are phenomenal people. His son, Michael, was at Ole Miss when I was there. They are great people to add to the Duke Athletics family. Beyond that, we have the chance to embrace the top athletic director in all of college athletics and I am thrilled to have the opportunity to work with him.”
- David Cutcliffe, Duke Football Head Coach




This opinion seems to hold some weight as well (same source):

“Kevin White has been a good friend and is one of the most respected people in intercollegiate athletics. He brings a wealth of experience and is someone who people admire in addition to respecting. We are very lucky to have him and I am looking forward to working together with him to make our athletic department the best in the country. This is an exciting day for Duke.”
- Mike Krzyzewski, Duke Men’s Basketball Head Coach

Faustus
06-02-2008, 08:20 AM
P.S. And even Bobby Ross was laundered through the NFL for a couple or three years between ACC stints, if I recall correctly.

I like the hire. I think staying inside the family can become detrimental at times. On the surface, this looks like a good fit (and surface is all I know).

sagegrouse
06-02-2008, 08:47 AM
P.S. And even Bobby Ross was laundered through the NFL for a couple or three years between ACC stints, if I recall correctly.

I like the hire. I think staying inside the family can become detrimental at times. On the surface, this looks like a good fit (and surface is all I know).

I like the hire too.

FWIW, Bobby Ross went directly from Maryland to Georgia Tech. I remember that he had problems with the facilities in Terpdom and the lack of plans for improvements.

sagegrouse

Faustus
06-02-2008, 10:09 AM
Wow, Sagegrouse, I must be becoming truly senile. I'd have bet money he was in the NFL (San Diego???) between college coaching jobs. Thanks. Was Gene Corrigan a lacrosse coach at Duke (or just a player) early on? - went on the UVa as Athletic Director and then... ironically, to ND. It's funny how assistant fb coaches hop around schools within conferences like crazy, but not as head ones when it becomes almost verboten. And then let's not forget Ted Roof from GT asst. to HC... already forgotten? Tom O'Brien was under Welsh at UVa for years, too. Rod Broadway played for UNC but I guess spent more years on the Duke sidelines as an asst. Not nearly so much line-crossing seems to take place in bball.

Bluedawg
06-02-2008, 11:18 AM
This will prove to be a mistake. His track record at Notre Dame is adequate at best and tragic at worst.

They needed a football man.....not some Ivy League wannabe. Duke will be going only as far as Cut can take them in football. Thankfully the basketball program is insulated from any outside influences.

This was very well put....and worthy of repeating.


It was Alleva that made the bad choices at Duke. At Notre Dame, it was the trustees and the president that made the bad choices. Alleva was properly blamed, but Kevin White was not to blame for those choices.

Nuff said

Bluedawg
06-02-2008, 11:22 AM
You're correct about the unwritten rule about coaches moving to other ACC institutions. Off the top of my head, I can think of only a few HC moves:

1) Jim Tatum (Maryland to UNC)
2) Bobby Ross (Maryland to GA Tech)
3) Tom O'Brien (BC to NC State)

Also, I'm not sure what softball has to do with Duke. Just another sport to appease some Title IX dork.

As far as AD's are concerned, I can't think of a single instance. It's just not done in the ACC like it is in the SEC and a few other leagues.

And State did not go after Tom O'Brien. Tom O'Brien contacted State. They would have been stupid to pass that up.

formerdukeathlete
06-02-2008, 12:28 PM
Duke has $8.2 billion in endowment and assets managed by its investment company DUMAC as of Feb 2008, which is about $7 billion more than it had a decade ago. Duke's investment returns routinely lead the nation, earning over 25% in one year. How is it possible that Duke still funds the fewest scholarships in the ACC with 250 or so? Duke could endow 350 scholarships like Stanford today if it wanted to but where's the rush and what's the point? Recruits don't care if Stanford has 350 endowed scholarships or Duke gives out 350 unendowed scholarships.

Funding 100 extra scholarships per year would cost $5 million, or one half of one percent of the at least $1 billion Duke makes in investment returns every year. That money isn't going anywhere or doing anything, it's just sitting in the bank growing. Duke had none of that just 10 years ago but Duke is still acting like a pauper instead of the multibillionaire it is.

Stanford had already endowed all 350 or so of its scholarships a decade ago and was winning every Sears Cup when it may have been worth $8 billion or so. In fact they might have done it 15-20 years ago when they were worth far less than Duke has now. So what's the excuse for Duke not doing the same or even coming close to that?

Just add sports and scholarships and top coaches. Right now Duke has so much cash it wouldn't know what the hell to do with it all after endowing all scholarships and funding everything imaginable. Imagine what it will be in 10 years. At a minimum Duke could fund 100 extra scholarships per year now. Later when it has a few spare trillions lying around it can endow them all, whatever. Harvard has at least $35 billion and terrible sports. If Duke keeps holding back on adding sports like softball and insisting on having the fewest scholarships in the ACC, the commitment to athletics really has to be questioned.

Maybe Kevin White can get Duke its own basketball contract like ND had its own NBC football deal. No way Duke should be giving Clemson as much basketball TV revenue as it gets from ESPN, while Clemson and the football schools get to keep their stadium revenues away from Duke. The ACC is a trainwreck with 12 schools anyway, they can be 11 without Duke. That's one good thing that might come from the Kevin White hiring.

are some of the assets managed by DUMAC pension assets of Duke employees? because if these are, these do not count as endowment funds.

Duke is under-endowed, from the standpoint of the percentage of its annual operating budget which is covered by endowment income. This we have heard for years, and it continues to be true / the case.

One of the things brought brightly to the attention of the Duke admin. and Trustees in the strategic plan process was that athletic departments cost money to run. 3 Ivy league schools athletic departments require subsidies of at least $20 million. And, the deficits at such schools do not take into account financial aid/scholarship costs for recruited student athletes. At harvard, 18% of the undergrad student body are recruited student athletes. It is safe to say that most of these student athletes would not have been assured admission to Harvard, Penn, Cornell but for their recruitment. For an apples to apples comparison, one needs to add financial aid costs to the $20 million subsidy. Perhaps the real number is $40 million per year.

Contrast this with Duke, where the current subsidy, decucting all expenses including all athletic scholarship costs, is $5 million.

We have a real bargain being a member of the ACC and playing big time. I believe this is not lost on the admin and Trustees at this point.

Stanford's A Dept endowed its athletic scholarships, and continues to raise (separately from the University) additional endowment funds. Duke was late to make athletic department fundraising a priority. Nan did not make it a priority. So we are way behind.

With the above, Duke could offer the NCAA full allotment of scholarships in every sport, right now, for an additional cost of about $4 million per year. This would bring up our subsidy to $9 million.

If you check the NCAA allotted schollies in each sport, you will find that limits are slanted toward equalization outside of Football. Women's b-ball gets more than men, women's track more, women's swimming more. At Duke presently, wrestling gets none, men's track virtually none, men's swimming none, fencing none. Before adding softball or other sports, Duke might just bring all sports up to the NCAA allowable limits. Women would still be awarded more schollies a year than men (even counting Football) and we would be way in compliance with Title IX. I am all for adding sports, but right now we are in need of many more scholarships for what we offer, and our football and basketball venues are slated for some major redos.

All that said, I am not so sure that we needed a White to get done what Duke needs to get done. I listened to the press conference. When he emphasized as the 3 most important things compliance, I thought, "What did we need to hire this guy for?" We have a great compliance function. What we do need is tremendous fundraising, and I am not convinced he was the best person, under the circumstances.

Dopeshop
06-02-2008, 06:19 PM
The AD search committee hired Gene Corrigan as a consultant.(Duke grad and former ND AD;)Gene's son Kevin is LAX coach at ND.When Pressler was fired ,Kevin was a candidate for the Duke job. I understand Gene counseled his son to stay at ND and I believe Joe Aleva was the primary basis . With Aleva gone ,I think Gene was more than happy to make the pitch for Kevin White. By the way, I expect Kevin Corrigan to get a serious look from UNC.
I ,for one, applaud the hire .I remember the angst we went through after Butters left. We couldn't even get the guy from Iowa State to come for an interview! No one, it seems , was high on becoming Coach K's boss.Kevin White has the maturity and experience to help Duke.

Inonehand
06-03-2008, 07:08 AM
The AD search committee hired Gene Corrigan as a consultant.(Duke grad and former ND AD;)Gene's son Kevin is LAX coach at ND.When Pressler was fired ,Kevin was a candidate for the Duke job. I understand Gene counseled his son to stay at ND and I believe Joe Aleva was the primary basis . With Aleva gone ,I think Gene was more than happy to make the pitch for Kevin White. By the way, I expect Kevin Corrigan to get a serious look from UNC.
I ,for one, applaud the hire .I remember the angst we went through after Butters left. We couldn't even get the guy from Iowa State to come for an interview! No one, it seems , was high on becoming Coach K's boss.Kevin White has the maturity and experience to help Duke.

The statement about Gene Corrigan telling his son to stay at ND because of Joe Alleva is simply false. Kevin did not get the job. Plain and simple. Doesn't make him a bad coach. He just didn't get it.

roywhite
06-03-2008, 09:07 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3422039&sportCat=ncf&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos2

From the article:
Notre Dame is looking for a new athletic director today because it neutered the previous one.

The surgical procedure, done without the benefit of privacy or anesthesia, was performed on Kevin White on Nov. 30, 2004 -- the day the school's president and board of trustees ignored White's objections and fired football coach Tyrone Willingham. ...

Kevin White said he was "euphoric" to land the athletic director's job at Duke.
Last Friday, White found his landing zone in Durham, N.C.: Duke University. And when he got there, White said he was "euphoric" to leave Notre Dame for the Blue Devils. I repeat, "euphoric."

Thurber Whyte
06-03-2008, 10:36 AM
The statement about Gene Corrigan telling his son to stay at ND because of Joe Alleva is simply false. Kevin did not get the job. Plain and simple. Doesn't make him a bad coach. He just didn't get it.

I do not know what if anything Gene Corrigan said to Kevin, but Kevin withdrew his name from consideration after his interview saying that he wanted to stay at Notre Dame.

Inonehand
06-03-2008, 11:07 AM
I do not know what if anything Gene Corrigan said to Kevin, but Kevin withdrew his name from consideration after his interview saying that he wanted to stay at Notre Dame.

Most coaches pull out of searches when it is evident they are not getting the job. Either way, he has a good job and is a good coach.

devilirium
06-03-2008, 07:43 PM
Judging from the Alleva update provided by DBR, he still has problems with truth telling.

1) As DBR pointed out, Bayou Joe said that Nifong suspended his credibility with being so convincing (?)....Huh? You couldn't convince Adam's housecat with that argument.

2) Three weeks ago, Joe granted an interview to Adam Gold and was asked about improvements for Wallace Wade and whether or not Coach Cutcliffe's predecessors suggested improvements to the stadium. Gold asked him twice and I'll give credit to Alleva for being a consistent liar--in both cases he said that neither coach had made recommendations. While I can't speak for Carl....I saw the model of the new stadium with Watzone in Ted's office--it was a rendering that appeared on the press guide this past year. It had colonnades, a new scoreboard, etc.

I'm sure that Joe did some good while he was here, but honesty wasn't his strong suit. And you wonder why he wasn't nationally connected like Kevin White? Hmmmm....

Small wonder that Joe was asked to look for a job a year ago...he wasn't credible. He had lost whatever base he had.

Kevin White: You're arrival to Duke couldn't come sooner.

Inonehand
06-03-2008, 09:03 PM
Judging from the Alleva update provided by DBR, he still has problems with truth telling.

1) As DBR pointed out, Bayou Joe said that Nifong suspended his credibility with being so convincing (?)....Huh? You couldn't convince Adam's housecat with that argument.

2) Three weeks ago, Joe granted an interview to Adam Gold and was asked about improvements for Wallace Wade and whether or not Coach Cutcliffe's predecessors suggested improvements to the stadium. Gold asked him twice and I'll give credit to Alleva for being a consistent liar--in both cases he said that neither coach had made recommendations. While I can't speak for Carl....I saw the model of the new stadium with Watzone in Ted's office--it was a rendering that appeared on the press guide this past year. It had colonnades, a new scoreboard, etc.

I'm sure that Joe did some good while he was here, but honesty wasn't his strong suit. And you wonder why he wasn't nationally connected like Kevin White? Hmmmm....

Small wonder that Joe was asked to look for a job a year ago...he wasn't credible. He had lost whatever base he had.

Kevin White: You're arrival to Duke couldn't come sooner.

No doubt, both of those statements are complete bull. However, I'm afraid we just got rid of an AD with no power and hired one that is used to having no power. You think ND's trustees and president ran athletics up there...we have our own issues with that down here.

devilirium
06-03-2008, 10:40 PM
^agree....I'm going to assume that there's a bit of difference in degree. It seemed that Tom Butters made me so many good and lasting hires (certainly he had some gaffes, too) that the folks in the administration assumed that Joe could do the same thing, initially. In the non-revenue hiring arena, Joe did a pretty good job. There's no reason to think that the committee and he did a poor job with the Cutcliffe hiring.

With White getting the VP title (something different than Joe)....how does that impact his "powers" ?Obviously, it impacts his chain of command. He doesn't report to Tallman--he reports to Brodhead.

gep
06-03-2008, 10:48 PM
With White getting the VP title (something different than Joe)....how does that impact his "powers" ?Obviously, it impacts his chain of command. He doesn't report to Tallman--he reports to Brodhead.

I was also wondering about the title. And, is Coach K still "special assistant to the president" or something like that?

Inonehand
06-04-2008, 07:31 AM
I was also wondering about the title. And, is Coach K still "special assistant to the president" or something like that?

I don't read too much into the title but I do believe it was at least a statement by the president that White would have a bigger say down here than at Notre Dame. There are other EVP/VP types in the administration that have had their powers lessened over the last couple of years. That said, maybe he will have more power than Joe...don't know. However, I believe, Joe lost power the day he took the AD job, not just later in his tenure. Quite honestly, the administration was about tired of Butters and the weight he carried.

devilirium
06-04-2008, 09:49 PM
^that makes perfect sense. Bill Brill suggested that Nan Keohane didn't want someone as powerful as Butters--hence the Alleva hire. With Joe's reign coming to end, there was more of a feeling to go back to a candidate that was a sitting AD--thus ruling out Leo Hart and Mike Cragg.

RPS
06-05-2008, 01:32 PM
A bit off-topic, but...

Cal was said to be working with Kevin White re a home-and-home football series with ND. Some Cal insiders (and even more not-so-insiders) are speculating that Sandy Barbour (a terrific AD in my view) will now look to put such a series together with Duke. Is there any talk like that coming out of Durham?

I'm not anything approaching a disinterested observer, but I'd love to see it....