Lost Season Finale 5-29 (Spoilers)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Well no one can complain that nothing happened or was resolved tonight, can they?!?

I did not expect Jeremy to be Locke. At least we get to see (by my count) 4 years of Locke between when the Oceanic 6 left and where we were left in this episode.

Pretty neat how they moved the island. Where did Ben get to after he turned the wheel?

I'm sorry the Jin didn't make it off the boat. Michael, well, he could go. lol

How long do we have to wait until the next season starts?

[Jmac1970]

Cool episode. As it went along my wife and I started to think that is might be Locke. It makes sense that as he became the leader of the Others he would learn the ability to leave the Island like Ben did. That was the same outfit he was wearing when he showed up in the desert a few episodes ago I think.

Wonder what happened to the folks in the Zodiac? They seemed as stranded as the Helicopter group. I wonder if we will find out. I hate that we have to wait a year.

[onepresent]

Weren't we promised the origins of the four-toed statue?

I felt a lot happened but not many questions answered.

[Pacer]

I too recall being promised the origins of the four toed statue...

I found it very interesting that Charlotte had previously been to the island... and even more interesting that she alluded to being born on the island.

Using the antipode theory that the producers said had a lot right in it, Charlotte finding the ex-polar bear would point her to the location of the island...

(A mod may want to move the Jeremy/Locke comment from last week's thread to this one).

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

There was an awful lot of death in that episode. Way to go out with a bang, both figuratively and literally.

It saddened me to see Jin die. Interesting that Jacob aka Christian Shepherd let Michael know that he was released before he was killed.

Why did Hurley mention to Walt that his dad was still on the island. Why lie? And couldn't Walt tell that his dad was dead given his special powers? Or did his Shining powers go away when he grew up?

Ben immediately goes to the desert and future (which we saw several episodes ago) when the island moved.

I need more time to chew on this one...

[Pacer]

It saddened me to see Jin die.

Remember, we didn't see Jin die... the explosion was in the middle of the ship... Jin was towards the back... The ship sank, so he's at least in the drink... the Zodiac can come by the explosion site and pick up survivors... Jin could be dead, but it's hardly a sure thing.


Interesting that Jacob aka Christian Shepherd let Michael know that he was released before he was killed.

Yeah that is directly opposite to how Ben was saying that the Island didn't release the 6... Michael was released, the 6 weren't. Would Michael's release have teleported him out of the bomb room? Is he in the cabin? Christian came and got Claire, and she was next seen in the cabin...


Why did Hurley mention to Walt that his dad was still on the island. Why lie?

I figured this was to incentivise Walt to keep the secrets. Sayid clearly knew Michael was in the bomb room.

[2535Miles]

I loved this episode.

Some questions were answered. We know how the Oceanic 6 get off the Island, and we know who is in the coffin. Hurray.

Some questions were posed. What's up with Sun and Whidmore? Charlotte and the Island? Did Miles whisper with a ghost to find out about Charlotte? Where did the Island go? Where did Ben go? Did Daniel make it to the freighter? If not, I guess he's floating around in the middle of the ocean with a bunch of red shirts. Bummer for him.

There were some parts of this episode that just blew me away. I've never lost my significant other in a freighter explosion, but when Sun lost Jin her reaction gave me chills. I really felt bad for her and can start to understand why Jack is such a wreck. By his own standards he is an utter and complete failure.

Ben was magnificent. His one liners: "No" and "So" were flawless. His scenes were the best on the show and he has secured his spot as my favorite character, and actor, on the show. I was glad to see Sayid stick a knife in Keamy, but then disappointed that none of the Others checked to see if he was really dead, then relieved that he was a live so Ben could stick him in the neck.

Penelope and Desmond are reunited, but how long will they stay together? It seems we're setup for Daughter vs. Father as Penelope has basically aided the Lostees with their lie and I assume she is also concealing Frank and Desmond.

I need an time-machine equipped Island so I can fast forward to the next Season.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

More random observations:

So if Sawyer and Juliet can see the exploded ship in whatever time the island moved to does that mean that a large surrounding area of the sea moved in time as well swallowing up Faraday and the extras on the zodiac? Why wouldn't the helicopter be included in this time shift if it was somewhere in between the freighter and the island. Or is one still able to see off the island, much like one could radio to and from the island previously?

There was a comment about sailing 3K miles to get "rescued" off Penny's boat. That would seem to mean that the island is no where near Indonesia. BTW, Penny showing up totally surprised me.

Good point about not actually seeing Jin die, although it would be another miracle for him to have survived that explosion.

[JasonEvans]

1) We did not see Jin die and Sun even said, "we can't see anything from up here" when she was urging them to go back down to find him. I fully expect that he jumped off or got blown off the freighter and swam back to the island before it moved. Of course, that is a long swim and the Island moved pretty quickly after the explosion. Still, I am betting Jin is still alive on the island.

2) Some of the surrounding water went with the island when it moved. Farraday and the "red shirts" in the boat are back on the island, at least that is my bet. Farraday is not done with the island. As an aside, what happened to all the stuff about maintaining specific vectors and directions when you escape the island. Ahh well, they had to abandon that for this episode.

3) As soon as Miles mentioned about Charlotte coming back to the island, I paused my TIVO and said, "welcome home, Annie (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Annie)!" I look forward to more with Miles and the spooky ghosts on the island in the future. That should be fun!

4) When Sun talks to Whidmore about other people getting off the island, she is talking about Ben and Desmond. I bet we see Sun as a bad guy working with Whidmore for a bit and then we get a big reveal that she has been plotting against Whidmore, perhaps even working with Ben, the whole time.

5) I am intrigued by who can and cannot get to and from the island. Ben left when he turned the "frozen donkey wheel" and now says he cannot come back. Are we supposed to think that Locke too could not get back after leaving? Richard Alpert and Tom "Mr. Friendly" are the only folks we've seen leave the island and come back, right? They were both "Others" which might allow them to move off the island in ways non-island born people cannot. Hmmm.

--Jason "more coming soon... gotta think on all of it a bit more" Evans

[blublood]

Jin being killed was just gut-wrenching, the second-worst moment we've ever had on the show, IMO. I can see why Sun blames Jack. We've seen a real devolution in his character from The Good Doctor in season 1 to allowing his desire for Kate and his determination not to be proved wrong lead to selfish decisions. Nice turnaround on the writers' part to have ol' out-for-himself Sawyer sacrifice his chance to get off the island while Jack, the supposed leader, signs Jin's death warrant. (what was up with that?? Way to save your girlfriend while killing off the father of a new baby, jerk...)

Along that same line, I liked how it turned out that Michael, who always wanted to be more of a father, truly became one by (at least making his best attempt) getting Jin off the boat for the sake of Jin's wife and baby.

I don't quite understand the whole Orchid station concept. O.k., so it sits on top of... Antarctica... or something... but if the island has been moved before, how come there's no hole in the wall? I suppose we're to deduce from this that Ben went straight from... Antarctica... to Tunisia via the bipolar opposition or whatever that is.

[JasonEvans]

I too recall being promised the origins of the four toed statue...


Not this season. I recall the producers specifically saying we would not get that this season and that it was something they were going to try to answer in future seasons but they could not promise they would get to it.

-Jason "I am resigned to the fact that there will be a lot of stuff that never gets resolved-- the statue, the whispers, and the numbers are three big ones I expect to never learn more about" Evans

[jma4life]

Well remember, Sawyer actually kind of wanted to stay on the island so it was not necessarily a completely selfless act. Also, how can you blame Jack for Jin's death. Jack was really just trying to save everybody else. This wasn't about Kate but about fulfilling his promise of getting everyone off the island. He probably realized that the risk of waiting for Jin was too high. He had the lives of 8 other people (including Sun's baby) to worry about. And remember, Frank was just as adamant about leaving.

[MarineTwinsDad]

For the first couple of years of the show, Jack was perhaps my favorite character. His leadership and strength seemed to be what was needed. Now, I find I don't really care what happens to him. Everyone goes through trauma in life, and as a doctor he would have had contact with all kinds of struggles that people go through. The way his role is now written, he could be dropped from the show and no one would miss him.

Sawyer, the opposite is true. I never really liked him, and even resented that Kate was torn between the two. I just never saw any redeeming qualities in who he was. Every time he did something notable, he would turn around and throw it away. Now, he has become perhaps the most noble character in the whole show. His short conversation with Juliet after swimming to shore was just the right humble hero. He could well replace Eko as the best character, although Desmond remains pretty well seated in that regard.

And the Island. After lots of response in the first couple of seasons, the Island has pretty much limited itself to the occasional whispering and ghosts. Even the smoke monster was limited to attacking what, only one military type? (On the same note, when Sayid was fighting Keamy, why did all the Others just stay in hiding until Alpert shot Keamy? Were they prevented from taking sides?) There's no more monsters, little evidence of the smoke monster, and the whole island seems to be quite nice.

Locke. Dead, by whose hand? Was it Hurley who said that they had heard of bad things happening in the three years since they left? They would have heard that from Locke, who had only been off the island for a month or so. Claire said not to bring her son back to the island, probably a reflection of what had been happening. But with Ben kept from going back, even if he did know where the island was, what would have been the cause of the trouble on the island? In fact, it seems that Widmore didn't know where the island was anymore either.

So I'm just not sure that the show can go on as it had been, featuring the surviors. I would venture to guess that the focus now has to be on time travel, space time manipulations, and larger events.

Even so, the show last night was tremendous. I will be interested in seeing where they go with it next. But not so much in watching something centered around survivors such as Jack.

[dukeblueyes]

More random observations:

So if Sawyer and Juliet can see the exploded ship in whatever time the island moved to does that mean that a large surrounding area of the sea moved in time as well swallowing up Faraday and the extras on the zodiac? Why wouldn't the helicopter be included in this time shift if it was somewhere in between the freighter and the island. Or is one still able to see off the island, much like one could radio to and from the island previously?

There was a comment about sailing 3K miles to get "rescued" off Penny's boat. That would seem to mean that the island is no where near Indonesia. BTW, Penny showing up totally surprised me.

Sawyer and Juliet see the ship BEFORE the island was moved. Sawyer crawls up, asks what she's celebrating, and she points to the smoking ship. Later, we see them shielding their eyes from the white light while the island was being moved.
The comment about the raft getting "rescued" after 3K was after the fact that we see it's been one week on Penny's boat and they have sailed over 1000 miles. They do this in order to keep Widmere off the trail and to protect the island.
I'm pretty sure Farraday is lost at sea, aka dead. Jin's dead too. Even if he survived the crash, the island moved. The only chance they have to survive is if the little sister island did not move.
Ben obviously goes straight from the wheel to Tunisia (and 2005, right?).

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Ben obviously goes straight from the wheel to Tunisia (and 2005, right?).

Yep, his winter jacket and arm injury seem to corroborate this.

Agreed on the timeline of events with Sawyer/Juliet on beach, then the island moving. The episode has gotten mashed up in my head after having weird Lost dreams last night.

[alteran]

Okay, some things.

1) Uh-- anybody else intrigued that Walt has initiated contact with the Losties? I was kind of underwhelmed by his interaction with Hurley (I smell a writer's strike victim) but I still think the concept has promise.

2) Jason's right on the vectors thing-- they really screwed the pooch on that one. Again, I'm going to assume this is a result of the writer's strike and the extreme time pressures for writing this episode. I do think they have some weasel room, though.

First, the "event horizon" of the island is pretty far out there, we learned this when the Others kidnapped Walt from Jin, Sawyer, and Michael years ago while they were pretty far out to sea, and no vectors or time issues came into play (at the very least, one assumes The Others would have intercepted them before the event horizon).

Also, Faraday is the person who directed them to move the freighter "as close to the island as they can without hitting the coral reef." Presumably, he could have told them what vector to do this on. And hence, the ship would be within the event horizon. This could explain the helicopter as well-- by the time they got to it, it was within the island's event horizon.

However, typically the writers would have established some of this, and all that stuff is all missing.

I'm not convinced that Jin and Faraday are lost at sea. In fact, I'm absolutely convinced Faraday made it back. He certainly should have turned around the second he felt the shockwave and certainly when he saw the smoke. Also, something else could have made him turn back as well-- maybe he's got a sat phone?

The real trick is Jin. They took great pains to show him on the deck within a few seconds of the explosion, and in the real world he'd be dead from that kind of event. However, in a fictional world where Keamy can be shot and stabbed, with his eyes staring into space wide open-- yet completely alive and capable of getting up and initiating physical combat-- Jin can jump off the boat into a life raft and survive.

There's no way Jin could have covered the distance to the island before the move, obviously, but since he's within the event horizon there are a number of things I imagine the writers could say to explain his being with the island-- proximity to metal in the water, certain field fluctuations, blah, blah, blah.

In the future, I have NO DOUBT that we'll see him there, and I predict a lot of mystery regarding whether he REALLY survived or not.

2a) My pet peeve was the unnatural and unlimited range of Keamy's radio. They established that The Orchid was absurdly far underground. You just can't transmit radio from there. Either the ship should have blown up when the radio lost contact, or losing contact should have stopped the bombs from going off upon Keamy's death. Sloppy.

3) Okay, so Ben tells us everyone has to go back to the island. Who exactly is that? We have to assume Jack, Kate, Sun, Hurley, and Sayid for sure, plus Locke's body. Aaron? Probably. How about Walt? What about Desmond and pilot-guy? This actually plays into my next point...

4) Penny and Desmond. I was telling my wife, "you know, even though we've got a lot of waiting to do, at least they gave us one, complete, happy ending-- Desmond and Penny." She turned to me and said, "did you forget that Ben is try to kill Penny?"

Yes, I forgot. Damn you Lost producers!!!

I wouldn't be surprised if the vendetta of Ben is what pushes Desmond to the island (it's the only place Ben can't go) with Penny, or Desmond goes in the wake of Ben killing her.

5) Speaking of Desmond, I loved Jack saying, "see you in the next life, brutha."

[DukeDevil]

Anyone else catch that ad for "Octagonglobalrecruiting.com"? I noticed it because it just seemed so out of place and then they had a dharma like octagon in the ad, and they also said they were looking for people in a variety of unpaid positions. I went to the site (it was SWARMED after the show, took a while to get it to load up) and sure enough it's a website sponsored by ABC "oh behalf of the Dharma initiative." It listed the dates of Comic Con in San Diego, so I think the producers are going to reveal something there. It also has a place for you to put your e-mail if you wish to be contacted "for recruiting purposes" by Dharma. I'm hoping it's the start of another off season mystery like find815.

[mkirsh]

One way they could save Jin would be Farraday's boat - given how close to the island the freighter had gotten, Farraday may have been very close to the freighter when it blew, and then headed to the wreckage to tow any survivors back to the beach before the island moved.

I'm not sure I really understand the bomb and what freezing the battery accomplished. Isn't that the same thing as unhooking the battery? Couldn't they have drilled into it and drained the battery chemicals?

Overall a very satisfying episode. Good simple answers as to why the O-6 were lying (although why they have to say there were 8 originally is still open) and how Ben got the Tunisia. Nice reunion for Des and Penny. More guilt for Jack's eventual plunge off the deep end. And Locke in the coffin was a good twist (I thought it was going to be Ben the whole episode until he showed up at the end).

It will be interesting to see what the show will be about from now on - I assume mostly about getting back, but how much of the narrative of what happens on the now-moved island will we see? My guess is that we'll have a long arc to start next season about one of the two, but with little info on the other (kind of like the tail section episodes).

[johnb]

Lost rules imply that Jin and Faraday have to be alive; we haven't seen them really, really dead, and it seems like such important characters would get some kind of decent killing. Lost rules would allow them to pop up in significant ways even if they had died, but I just have to think there's a Sun/Jin reunion coming up.

Locke's death makes a lot of sense, in retrospect, but this certainly does not imply that he won't factor in throughout the show--in fact, I think he's sacrificed himself for the good of the island and wouldn't be surprised to see him revive upon his return there (the group simlpy has to go back; it would dramatically weird for them to stall out and stay in suburbia).

[BCGroup]

Just watched it and now feel like I need to watch it again because I probably missed all kinds of stuff. I was so happy to see Desmond and Penny get together, then I realized about Ben. Cannot WAIT for next season. By the way, anybody watch Good Morning America yesterday--supposedly they showed alternate endings?

[JasonEvans]

Anyone else catch that ad for "Octagonglobalrecruiting.com"? I noticed it because it just seemed so out of place and then they had a dharma like octagon in the ad, and they also said they were looking for people in a variety of unpaid positions. I went to the site (it was SWARMED after the show, took a while to get it to load up) and sure enough it's a website sponsored by ABC "oh behalf of the Dharma initiative." It listed the dates of Comic Con in San Diego, so I think the producers are going to reveal something there. It also has a place for you to put your e-mail if you wish to be contacted "for recruiting purposes" by Dharma. I'm hoping it's the start of another off season mystery like find815.

Did you notice some of the jobs Octagon Recruiting was looking for? It is a crazy list.

Zoologists - specializing in polar bears is probably a plus
IVF specialists - still studying fertility
Ichthyologists - these are zoologists who specialize in fish (I looked it up)
Illustrators - huh? Would these be folks to draw blast door maps?
Minibus drivers - you must provide your own gas mask

There were many more. I am betting this is clearly the start of a new ARG involving Lost.

--Jason "I am not optimistic that this ARG will have much impact on the show as the past two have only been vaguely connected to the show" Evans

[BCGroup]

Found the alternate endings video clips--I would not have liked the last one they showed:

http://www.tvsquad.com/2008/05/30/lost-alternate-endings-air-on-gma-video/

[BCGroup]

-Jason "I am resigned to the fact that there will be a lot of stuff that never gets resolved-- the statue, the whispers, and the numbers are three big ones I expect to never learn more about" Evans

You don't think we'll learn about the numbers, Jason? They have been so critical throughout the show. I totally expect to never learn about the statue.

[dcarp23]

You don't think we'll learn about the numbers, Jason? They have been so critical throughout the show. I totally expect to never learn about the statue.

I think there is still a plan to explain the numbers. They just keep coming up. Now, maybe they don't get to it, but I doubt they've given up on them yet.

[JasonEvans]

In case you missed it, there was an extended clip of the press conference the Oceanic 6 give when they get back to civilization where we learn the other people who they say survived the initial plane crash. Here is a clip (http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2008/05/extended-oceanic-press-release-scene.html) of it.

Jack says it was Boone (who died of massive internal injuries), Libby (he does not say she died of a gunshot, of course), and Charlie (who Jack says drowned).

--Jason "interesting that they picked those 3 and that the reasons for their deaths were largely accurate, even if some important details were omitted" Evans

[MIV]

Locke's death makes a lot of sense, in retrospect, but this certainly does not imply that he won't factor in throughout the show--in fact, I think he's sacrificed himself for the good of the island and wouldn't be surprised to see him revive upon his return there (the group simlpy has to go back; it would dramatically weird for them to stall out and stay in suburbia).

Agreed. Because Locke's death occurs several years after the 6 escape the island, I think there's plenty of Locke's story left to be told. In fact, I would expect a major storyline of the next season to be the transformation of "John Locke" into "Jeremy Bentham." I'm quite sure it was no accident that the writers chose the name of a philosopher whose views were the polar opposite of those of John Locke. Locke espoused natural law and natural rights, with the right to property being the most fundamental natural right. Bentham dismissed natural rights as nonsense and espoused utlilitarianism -- the greatest good for the greatest number.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Locke's focus shift from being on the island as an entity to being on, as the new head of the Others, the greatest good for the greatest number. Ben is certainly pretty darned utilitarian, so it will be interesting to see if Locke becomes more like Ben.

The writers can't deprive us of the great interaction between Ben and Locke, and since Ben can't return to the island, I suspect we'll be seeing a lot of Locke in the "real world" before he dies.

[Pacer]

Also, in that they are taking Locke back to the island.... the island has revived him from death before...

[Udaman]

I think Jin is definitely still alive. So is Micheal. So is Farraday. The scene with him right before the ship exploded was great - the whispering, then Jack's dad (Jacob?), then Michael - "Who are you?", then boom. Awesome.

I would guess that the start of next year is the interaction that Locke had with each of the people in the future (Jack, Kate, Walt, Ben and even Sun). It will juxtapose him talking with each of them, with stuff going back on the island. When he meets Sun he'll tell her that Jin is still alive - that will get her to return to the island for sure. The last half the season will be them trying to get back, and it will end with them on there.

Also, clearly time travels much, much faster off the island than on it. I would guess that do those on the island not much time has passed.

Hurley playing chess with Mr. Echo? Cool.

Also, loved Sawyer calling the pilot Kenny Rogers, and Ben killing the bad guy, despite the consequences.

Overall, just a great episode. February is a loooooong way away.

[DukeDevil]

I'm thinking that Jin is Definitely alive, michael is toast, and Faraday finds Jin in the water and brings him back to the moved island. After the island moves it looks like there is a bunch of water rushing in to fill the void, which likely included the surrounding water. Plus, you have to figure an island isn't build like a skyscraper, straight up from the ocean floor, it rises gradually up with a significant amound underwater, like an iceburg, so I assume the water above that also gets moved. What do I know, I'm just trying to convince myself that my thoughts on the topic are right.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

I'm thinking that Jin is Definitely alive

If Jin is alive, does Sun know he's alive? Would this give her the motivation to get back to the island? Hence her "partnership" with Widmore?

[Windsor]

If Jin is alive, does Sun know he's alive? Would this give her the motivation to get back to the island? Hence her "partnership" with Widmore?

I don't think she 'knows' he is alive...I think she hopes he survived. The only way to know for her to know for sure is to get back to the island. That is her motivation. She wanted them to fly closer and check...'you can't see anything from here'. so she isn't sure he is dead. Wishful thinking on her part? Who knows!

[johnb]

Why do they hate Locke so much? They've been gone several years, and if he hadn't played an ongoing nasty role in their lives, I'd think they'd show to his funeral if only out of curiosity.

They're traumatized by the final day, but, to an extent, that final day wasn't dramatically more traumatic than lots of other days on the island (i assume they'd assume that the people on the island are safe and that, aside from jin +/- Sawyer, all of the insiders survived).

Finally, finally, someone on the island has to go to the bathroom. Thanks, Hurley.

[Exiled_Devil]

Why do they hate Locke so much? They've been gone several years, and if he hadn't played an ongoing nasty role in their lives, I'd think they'd show to his funeral if only out of curiosity.

They're traumatized by the final day, but, to an extent, that final day wasn't dramatically more traumatic than lots of other days on the island (i assume they'd assume that the people on the island are safe and that, aside from jin +/- Sawyer, all of the insiders survived).

Finally, finally, someone on the island has to go to the bathroom. Thanks, Hurley.

I think they avoided his funeral because they were still living the lie. They don't know "Jeremy Bentham".

[BCGroup]

Pop Candy's 10 best comments about the final episode here:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/popcandy/2008/06/lost-in-a-flash.html#more

Nothing earth-shattering, just interesting, like this one:
"Was the lamp Ben lit before he moved the island a nod to the lamppost in “The Chronicles of Narnia” – the same lamppost that served as an axis mundi? In Narnia (at least in the beginning) you needed a parka, too – because it was always winter and never Christmas."

[JasonEvans]

I think the best comment from the USAToday thing is this one:


Forget Charlotte being Annie - I think Annie is Charlotte's mother and she'll later discover Ben is her father. Ben had pregnant Annie leave the island before the purge.

--Jason "there is much more about Ben's history and the history of Dharma that we need to find out" Evans

[devilish]

I think the best comment from the USAToday thing is this one:



--Jason "there is much more about Ben's history and the history of Dharma that we need to find out" Evans

I'm thinking he finds this out when he leaves the island. Which is probably why he is so interested in the O6 getting back to the island - perhaps he can hitch a ride back with them.

[Pacer]

I erased the finale from my Tivo... but did ben say that because he activated the frozen donkey wheel, that "he had to leave" or that he had to leave and couldn't come back?

[BCGroup]

He told Locke that whoever moved the island had to leave.