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NYC Duke Fan
05-29-2008, 02:44 AM
Why doesn't Duke add women's softball?

The sport gets play in the newspaper as well as being televised on ESPN.

The only other sports that Duke does not participate in that awards a national championship are hockey, skiing, gymnastics and water polo...the latter three get very little national coverage and hockey is just not a Southern sport, but I think that women's softball would be an excellent addition to the Duke program.

The women's sports programs at Duke compete on a very high level nationally.

weezie
05-29-2008, 06:09 AM
That is an excellent question. I'm surprised it has never been on the radar.

Bluedog
05-29-2008, 08:20 AM
Didn't you ask this same question about a year ago? ;)

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1468

burnspbesq
05-29-2008, 08:27 AM
Certainly, any discussion about adding softball has to start with the facilities issue. Where on the Duke campus is there room to add a softball facility? And where does the $ (just a guess on my part, but I'm thinking that a state-of-the-art facility, including locker room and offices, is going to run somewhere in the vicinity of $2 million) come from?

Don't know what the operating budget for a major-conference D1 softball progarm would look like; my guess is that it would fall somewhere between women's soccer and women's lax. That's a not inconsiderable chunk of change. Does Duke Athletics currently run enough of an operating surplus that it could cover that without additional revenue?

hughgs
05-29-2008, 10:27 AM
Certainly, any discussion about adding softball has to start with the facilities issue. Where on the Duke campus is there room to add a softball facility? And where does the $ (just a guess on my part, but I'm thinking that a state-of-the-art facility, including locker room and offices, is going to run somewhere in the vicinity of $2 million) come from?

Don't know what the operating budget for a major-conference D1 softball progarm would look like; my guess is that it would fall somewhere between women's soccer and women's lax. That's a not inconsiderable chunk of change. Does Duke Athletics currently run enough of an operating surplus that it could cover that without additional revenue?

Right now the club team uses the East Campus turf field (presumably the field hockey field) for practice and a Durham field for home games. Even if you ignore the money issues, the location of a softball field looms large. A varsity softball team is not going to want to share facilities with the field hockey team. Maybe you could do some major regrading on East Campus near the field hockey stadium, but you'd have to worry about balls heading into the very busy streets in that area.

grc5
05-29-2008, 10:28 AM
Why doesn't Duke add women's softball?

The sport gets play in the newspaper as well as being televised on ESPN.

The only other sports that Duke does not participate in that awards a national championship are hockey, skiing, gymnastics and water polo...the latter three get very little national coverage and hockey is just not a Southern sport, but I think that women's softball would be an excellent addition to the Duke program.

The women's sports programs at Duke compete on a very high level nationally.

We also don't have a Men's Volleyball team, a Bowling team, or a Rifle team.
Just wanted to be thorough :D

jimsumner
05-29-2008, 10:30 AM
It was on the radar several years ago, when Duke decided to add another woman's sport. Duke went with rowing over softball, in large part because you can have multiple boats, which translates to lots of athletes, which translates to less Title IX pressure.

hughgs
05-29-2008, 10:51 AM
It was on the radar several years ago, when Duke decided to add another woman's sport. Duke went with rowing over softball, in large part because you can have multiple boats, which translates to lots of athletes, which translates to less Title IX pressure.

How did the facilities issue play into the decision of crew over softball? When crew was introduced I thought it was a no-brainer, largely because a boat house doesn't require any space on campus. I would have thought the same thing about gymnastics and bowling.

merry
05-29-2008, 12:46 PM
We also don't have a Men's Volleyball team, a Bowling team, or a Rifle team.
Just wanted to be thorough :D

And we don't have a Competitive Cheer team. Note this is not the same as our cheerleaders who would, I think, technically be called a "spirit squad" to distinguish them from a competitive cheer team.

johnb
05-29-2008, 01:25 PM
One associated issue is the extent to which Duke admissions should be affected by the pursuit of athletes. It is one thing to take 2 or 3 basketball players a year who would not otherwise get accepted, but it is another to not only accept but provide scholarship money for all of the possible athletes who could fill the teams. Most student athletes function well in all phases of Duke life, but the need for high-quality players inevitably means that the admissions process is affected. This pursuit minimally affects large state schools, moderately affects mid-size private schools like Duke but has a large effect on very small, elite schools like Williams or Swarthmore, where significant prcentages of the freshman classes are varsity athletes. Another 5or 6 athletes per year for a sport that is likely to draw a very small audience may not be all that intriguing to the administration. By the way, without any actual evidence, I'd guess that crew was added because it's a tad more prestigious to participate in a sport made famous by Oxford/Cambridge/Harvard/Yale rather than a sport most widely known for its middle-aged beer-drinking participants (not that I could even begin to hit the pitches thrown by top college pitchers).

weezie
05-29-2008, 03:04 PM
(not that I could even begin to hit the pitches thrown by top college pitchers).

So you think you could hit the midrange college pitchers? ;) Those ladies are pretty darned good. And for the record, I've never played the sport outside of my backyard but those chicks bring it!

jimsumner
05-29-2008, 03:51 PM
Anyone who thinks that middle-aged beer-drinking has anything to do with high-level, fast-pitch softball probably has never watched the latter.

Bluedog
05-29-2008, 06:56 PM
And we don't have a Competitive Cheer team. Note this is not the same as our cheerleaders who would, I think, technically be called a "spirit squad" to distinguish them from a competitive cheer team.

Well, cheerleading (it is NOT the "spirit quad") is a VARSITY sport. So, it's considered well above softball, hockey, etc. Although they don't give out scholarships. The only reason they don't compete is because there are no male cheerleaders, which are required for those types of things. But if they appear on GoDuke.com it is considered varsity (plus I've been told by people on the team that it is considered a varsity sport): http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=562071&SPID=3412&SPSID=57113


This pursuit minimally affects large state schools, moderately affects mid-size private schools like Duke but has a large effect on very small, elite schools like Williams or Swarthmore, where significant prcentages of the freshman classes are varsity athletes. Another 5or 6 athletes per year for a sport that is likely to draw a very small audience may not be all that intriguing to the administration.

As it is, Duke athletes comprise 10% of the student body.

msdukie
05-29-2008, 09:09 PM
The cheerleaders are a part of the athletic department and many consider them athletes. However, they are not considered one of Duke's 26 varsity sports.

Inonehand
05-29-2008, 09:28 PM
That's why rowing was added. You can have large numbers and the sport carried a low budget burden at the beginning. Softball, like baseball, is a relatively expensive program to run, even without considering the stadium issue. However, Duke has been trying to build a boathouse for years now with no luck. Rowing has turned out to be more expensive than they thought, but still less expensive than softball would be...and the roster can be much bigger.

devildeac
05-29-2008, 10:42 PM
Well, cheerleading (it is NOT the "spirit quad") is a VARSITY sport. So, it's considered well above softball, hockey, etc. Although they don't give out scholarships. The only reason they don't compete is because there are no male cheerleaders, which are required for those types of things. But if they appear on GoDuke.com it is considered varsity (plus I've been told by people on the team that it is considered a varsity sport): http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=562071&SPID=3412&SPSID=57113



As it is, Duke athletes comprise 10% of the student body.

Not sure about varsity sport. Listing/photo on GoDuke gives the impression that it is, checking out the link on duke.edu, I am not so sure. They don't compete because of an injury/paralysis in the 90's when "stunting" was "banned", NOT because there are no male cheerleaders. NCSU, unc (I think) and ECU (I think) all have women only competitve cheer squads/teams. So, male cheerleaders are NOT required to be a competition squad. I will re-visit this later this summer.

devildeac
05-29-2008, 10:44 PM
The cheerleaders are a part of the athletic department and many consider them athletes. However, they are not considered one of Duke's 26 varsity sports.

This is probably true. See my prior post. I will try to get this answered in the next several weeks.

Inonehand
05-30-2008, 07:09 AM
This is probably true. See my prior post. I will try to get this answered in the next several weeks.

100% true. Cheerleading is not considered a varsity sport at Duke.

Bluedog
05-30-2008, 08:37 AM
Not sure about varsity sport. Listing/photo on GoDuke gives the impression that it is, checking out the link on duke.edu, I am not so sure. They don't compete because of an injury/paralysis in the 90's when "stunting" was "banned", NOT because there are no male cheerleaders. NCSU, unc (I think) and ECU (I think) all have women only competitve cheer squads/teams. So, male cheerleaders are NOT required to be a competition squad. I will re-visit this later this summer.

k, my bad on both accounts (varsity and competition). I'll admit my mistakes! A cheerleader definitely told me herself that it is considered a varsity sport, but it's definitely not listed as you all say. Carolyn Hardin, SI.com's "cheerleader of the week" even stated "I can practically guarantee that our cheerleading squad has the highest GPA of any Duke varsity sport." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sioncampus/12/14/cheerleader.duke/index.html So, I guess they don't even know themselves that they aren't considered a varsity sport - perhaps it's confusing b/c there is a varsity "level" squad (as opposed to JV) even though it's not a "varsity sport." ??

Also, on GoDuke.com, it lists only 24 sports from the dropdown, but I always hear people saying that Duke has 26 varsity sports teams (and see it confirmed from official sources such as theAcc.com and Duke's athletic and admissions sites). What are the other two then?

Edit: Even on Duke's Athletic Report (http://www.goduke.com/pdf5/80918.pdf?SPSID=22634&SPID=1841&DB_OEM_ID=4200) it clearly states: "assisting our 26 varsity sports programs," but then only talks about 24 of them in the Sports Summaries. Perhaps the remaining 2 are "non-competitive" varsity sports so they don't have results to report?

msdukie
05-30-2008, 08:52 AM
Also, on GoDuke.com, it lists only 24 sports from the dropdown, but I always hear people saying that Duke has 26 varsity sports teams (and see it confirmed from official sources such as theAcc.com and Duke's athletic and admissions sites). What are the other two then?

That's because men's indoor track and field, men's outdoor track and field, women's indoor track and field, women's outdoor track and field consist of 4 varsity sports (the NCAA awards championships for each of the two seasons and the sports are considered different, even if they have many of the same athletes). GoDuke just lists pages for men's and women's though it delineates it more on each page. There are also separate ACC indoor and outdoor championships, just like the separate NCAA indoor and outdoor championships. Thus, the 26 varsity sports.

http://www.theacc.com/this-is/accchampionships.html

http://org-www.ncaa.com/track-and-field-indoor/default.aspx?id=508

http://org-www.ncaa.com/track-and-field-outdoor/default.aspx?id=524

Bluedog
05-30-2008, 09:07 AM
Ah! That makes sense. Thanks. Seems kinda silly to me, though, but I guess separate championships are awarded, so have to consider them separate sports.

hughgs
05-30-2008, 05:14 PM
That's because men's indoor track and field, men's outdoor track and field, women's indoor track and field, women's outdoor track and field consist of 4 varsity sports (the NCAA awards championships for each of the two seasons and the sports are considered different, even if they have many of the same athletes). GoDuke just lists pages for men's and women's though it delineates it more on each page. There are also separate ACC indoor and outdoor championships, just like the separate NCAA indoor and outdoor championships. Thus, the 26 varsity sports.

http://www.theacc.com/this-is/accchampionships.html

http://org-www.ncaa.com/track-and-field-indoor/default.aspx?id=508

http://org-www.ncaa.com/track-and-field-outdoor/default.aspx?id=524

Just to put a very fine point on this topic, there are actually three seasons for the runners. Fall is cross-country, winter is indoor track, and spring is outdoor track. And athletes can red-shirt in one without affecting eligibility in another. For example, one could red-shirt in cross-country, but still compete in the indoor and outdoor season.

DukeFencer
05-31-2008, 04:02 PM
While cheerleading is not a varsity sport at Duke, it is treated in many ways like it is one. The girls (and mascot) receive access to the same training room and are assigned to a trainer (currently the same trainer as WBB), and get the same varsity jackets. My guess is that they also get early class registration, although I'm not sure about that or access to the academic resources provided to varsity athletes. I believe this is what results in the confusion over their official status.

laxbluedevil
06-01-2008, 12:19 PM
Softball is great, all you need is one great pitcher and she can throw doubleheaders every day and win national titles for Duke. Rowing allows the most scholarships of any female Division I sport, 20. Duke is nowhere near Title IX compliance like Boston College is, tough to have equal numbers with 85 football scholarships. Isn't the rule that schools have to be shown to be "making progress" towards title IX meaning they have to add a womens sport every few years to eventually achieve equality? Even if Duke is dragging its feet as much as allowed, isn't it time to add a new sport or two for the women? Rowing eats up 20 scholarships but nobody really watches or cares about it yet that's what Duke chose over softball. The attitude seems to be forget the fans, let's just do the minimum to avoid getting sued for title IX. But those 20 rowing scholarships cost $1 million per year.

So $2 million for a new softball facility is nothing considering Duke can charge admissions and get fans excited and donating. Duke should add gymnastics too, no new facility needed for that. Does Duke still fund the fewest athletic scholarships in the ACC? I remember they used that fact to ask for Iron Dukes donations. Wake Forest costs more per scholarship and they have very little money or fans, how do they have more scholarships? There's no excuse for that, none whatsoever. Especially after all the money Duke has raised. Duke should have added softball and gymnastics long ago since schools like Stanford and Duke can dominate those sports. Duke should have a great shot at national championships in softball, gymnastics, and other sports that will be broadcast on national TV. Softball first since the ACC is already a great softball league and most members already have teams. How can Duke fans get this done? Duke needs to be pressured into it or nothing will happen.

Bluedog
06-01-2008, 12:42 PM
Duke is nowhere near Title IX compliance like Boston College is, tough to have equal numbers with 85 football scholarships.
[...]
Duke should add gymnastics too, no new facility needed for that.

What the heck are you talking about? Duke is nowhere near Title IX compliance? That's the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. Secondly, you clearly don't know the rules of Title IX. It doesn't require that the number of scholarships for males and females be equal: http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/interath.html "This does not require the same number of scholarships for men and women or individual scholarships of equal value. However, the total amount of assistance awarded to men and women must be substantially proportionate to their participation rates in athletic programs. In other words, if 60 percent of an institution's intercollegiate athletes are male, the total amount of aid going to male athletes should be approximately 60 percent of the financial aid dollars the institution awards." Duke follows this completely as far as I know.

No new facility needed for gymnastics? What? Where would they go? There's already space issues in the existing gyms plus gymnastics requires lots of equipment that Duke currently doesn't have, which would make the gym unusable to other teams. Unless there's some mystery gymnastics gym on campus that I don't know of....which I guess is possible.

laxbluedevil
06-01-2008, 01:00 PM
Duke's student body is half male, half female, so that means number of male and female athletic scholarships should be equal as explained below. About 130 scholarships for women if maxed out to NCAA limits for sports I know Duke plays according to:

http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/scholarships_by_sport.htm

Duke football alone has 85 scholarships so I assume Duke has far more for male than female scholarship athletes, and should have equal numbers or be "continuing" to move towards it.

The following is an excerpt from your link:


Levels of Competition

Colleges and universities must provide opportunity for intercollegiate competition as well as team schedules which equally reflect the competitive abilities of male and female athletes. An institution's compliance in this area may be assessed in any one of the following ways:

the numbers of men and women participating in intercollegiate athletics are substantially proportionate to their overall enrollment; or

where members of one sex are underrepresented in the athletics program, whether the institution can show a continuing practice of program expansion responsive to the developing interests and abilities of that sex; or

the present program accommodates the interests and abilities of the underrepresented sex.

Bluedog
06-01-2008, 01:18 PM
Duke's student body is half male, half female, so that means number of male and female athletic scholarships should be equal as explained below. About 130 scholarships for women if maxed out to NCAA limits for sports I know Duke plays according to:

http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/scholarships_by_sport.htm

Duke football alone has 85 scholarships so I assume Duke has far more for male than female scholarship athletes, and should have equal numbers or be "continuing" to move towards it.

The following is an excerpt from your link:


Levels of Competition

Colleges and universities must provide opportunity for intercollegiate competition as well as team schedules which equally reflect the competitive abilities of male and female athletes. An institution's compliance in this area may be assessed in any one of the following ways:

the numbers of men and women participating in intercollegiate athletics are substantially proportionate to their overall enrollment; or

where members of one sex are underrepresented in the athletics program, whether the institution can show a continuing practice of program expansion responsive to the developing interests and abilities of that sex; or

the present program accommodates the interests and abilities of the underrepresented sex.

Ok, well, for mere Title IX compliance the institution doesn't have to have the same number of scholarships for men and women even if the student population is 50/50. That is a misrepresentation of the rule. As I stated, scholarships should be roughly proportional to "participation rates in athletic programs." As you have quoted ONE of the possible ways for compliance in the "level of competition" section is to have "the numbers of men and women participating in intercollegiate athletics [be] substantially proportionate to their overall enrollment." So you utilized the transitive property to say that since Duke is 50/50, the athletic participation rates should be roughly equal, so the scholarships should be equal, which seems like sound logic. However, that is not the only way for Title IX compliance as you also stated that the institution can instead just show that it is making an effort to accommodate the interests of the underrepresented sex. It's an "OR" statement, not an "AND" one. It doesn't state the institution must make an effort to make the numbers of athletic participation equal if the same amount of interest is not there. I would say Duke has shown it accommodates the interests of the female student body as is. This is a fine line, but there is an important distinction. Also, see http://www.dukemagazine.duke.edu/dukemag/issues/030407/titleix-compliance1.html and http://www.dukemagazine.duke.edu/dukemag/issues/030407/titleix1.html.

laxbluedevil
06-01-2008, 01:52 PM
So all those women that play Duke club softball off campus DON'T WANT athletic scholarships? How did you determine that the interest and ability of Duke's female students dictates they shouldn't have nearly as many athletic scholarships as the men? Did all the Duke women take a poll and deliver the results to you? Are you saying you personally don't want Duke to have a softball or gymnastics or any other new team, if so why?

Do you also think Duke should continue to have the fewest athletic scholarships in the ACC and fewer even than Wake Forest? Even though Duke has by far the most money and biggest endowment and an expressed desire to be #1 in the nation in athletics? Despite the fewest scholarships, Duke often has the ACC's highest NACDA Cup rankings for all sports so has unmatched potential to dethrone perennial #1 Stanford.

Duke has to make "continuing" progress towards title IX compliance, so it can't just add rowing then do nothing for the next several years. A scholarship softball team should have happened a long time ago.

Duke womens teams all seem to do very well so what's the problem, doesn't Duke athletics want another great program? Surely this must have been addressed in the brand new athletics report, so when is the scholarship softball team going to start competing with all the other ACC teams? The delay is quite embarassing and puzzling.

Bluedog
06-01-2008, 04:38 PM
So all those women that play Duke club softball off campus DON'T WANT athletic scholarships? How did you determine that the interest and ability of Duke's female students dictates they shouldn't have nearly as many athletic scholarships as the men? Did all the Duke women take a poll and deliver the results to you? Are you saying you personally don't want Duke to have a softball or gymnastics or any other new team, if so why?

Do you also think Duke should continue to have the fewest athletic scholarships in the ACC and fewer even than Wake Forest? Even though Duke has by far the most money and biggest endowment and an expressed desire to be #1 in the nation in athletics? Despite the fewest scholarships, Duke often has the ACC's highest NACDA Cup rankings for all sports so has unmatched potential to dethrone perennial #1 Stanford.

Duke has to make "continuing" progress towards title IX compliance, so it can't just add rowing then do nothing for the next several years. A scholarship softball team should have happened a long time ago.

Duke womens teams all seem to do very well so what's the problem, doesn't Duke athletics want another great program? Surely this must have been addressed in the brand new athletics report, so when is the scholarship softball team going to start competing with all the other ACC teams? The delay is quite embarassing and puzzling.

This will be my last reply, but just wanted to say that overall I'm completely in agreement with you. I definitely welcome making as many sports as possible varsity and scholarship. It would be positive for the university, the athletic program as a whole, and I certainly have no issue with it. The only thing I took exception with was your statement that Duke doesn't comply with Title IX. I don't think that's an accurate description of the situation. But certainly I agree and welcome the addition of new scholarship sports, particularly women's sports.

DukeFencer
06-01-2008, 07:13 PM
Does Duke give out all 20 of those rowing scholarships? To my understanding, there is a sizeable group of rowers at Duke on either no scholarship or a very partial one, especially since the Duke team depends a lot on new rowers rather than recruits. I would be curious to know both the number of scholarships the team has as well as how many are used each year. The women's fencing team has "had" a scholarship for a number of years, but was not permitted to use it until this year on incoming Olympian Becca Ward, despite a number of highly rated recruits who turned into high performing athlete while at Duke.

hughgs
06-01-2008, 09:51 PM
So $2 million for a new softball facility is nothing considering Duke can charge admissions and get fans excited and donating.

A couple of questions pertaining to this statement. First, where would a new facility go? Be specific, because I can't think of anyplace on campus to put one.

Second, do you really think that charging people to see softball would energize a fan base? Duke has a nationally competitive volleyball team and attendance at those matches are primarily the same people at every match. And it's not that energized, unfortunately.

buddy
06-01-2008, 10:41 PM
Duke currently does not charge for volleyball, baseball, men's or women's lacrosse, all of which I attend regularly. I can't speak for other sports, but don't think there are admissions charged for other "olympic" sports either--unless it's for a conference tournament played at Duke. So charging admission for softball would require a fan commitment that doesn't seem to exist for the other sports I mentioned. The same die hard groups (consisting first and foremost of parents and secondly of friends) show up for each game. Softball would require a facility, presumably on campus. Might have to kill a lot of trees to build a field, or cut out a lot of otherwise hard to find parking. Rowing uses a county owned boathouse on Lake Michie. Capital investment consists of a pickup truck, a boat hauler, and the various boats. Students get there generally in their own vehicles. So minimal capital investment, relatively large roster, with a large proportion of walk-ons. It helps the numbers without busting the budget. I'd love to see softball, just don't see it happening. I'm also not sure rowing gets 20 scholarships. I understand that most walk-ons who come back as sophomores get some nominal stipend, but recruited athletes per year are minimal. Once every four years they get a waiver from normal admission standards.

grc5
06-02-2008, 08:15 AM
While cheerleading is not a varsity sport at Duke, it is treated in many ways like it is one. The girls (and mascot) receive access to the same training room and are assigned to a trainer (currently the same trainer as WBB), and get the same varsity jackets. My guess is that they also get early class registration, although I'm not sure about that or access to the academic resources provided to varsity athletes. I believe this is what results in the confusion over their official status.

Cheerleaders DO NOT get early registration for classes. My Gen Chem lab partner was on the squad untill 2007, and definitely complained about that.

grc5
06-02-2008, 08:25 AM
A couple of questions pertaining to this statement. First, where would a new facility go? Be specific, because I can't think of anyplace on campus to put one.

Second, do you really think that charging people to see softball would energize a fan base? Duke has a nationally competitive volleyball team and attendance at those matches are primarily the same people at every match. And it's not that energized, unfortunately.

I think we could fit a softball field on Frank Bassett Drive, across the street from the FieldTurf practice fields next to Koskinen stadium. Right now they're just generic athletic fields.

hughgs
06-02-2008, 09:36 PM
I think we could fit a softball field on Frank Bassett Drive, across the street from the FieldTurf practice fields next to Koskinen stadium. Right now they're just generic athletic fields.

But, those fields are used by the soccer and lacrosse teams for practice. Where will those teams practice? And club teams use the fields for their practices. Are you going to get rid of those teams, because the varsity teams will certainly not let the club teams practice on their fields? I think you'll have to try again.

DukeFencer
06-02-2008, 11:41 PM
The rowers do not take their own vehicles to the lake, they take a charter bus that makes stops on east and west (I'm sure the cost of the bus is minimal compared to the risk of 30 college students driving almost 30 minutes at 5 in the morning.) And the boats are pretty expensive. At least as recently as 4 years ago we were buying Princeton's used boats at $30-40,000 a pop(new ones go for much more.) I heard talk that Duke was planning to build a new boathouse with locker room facilites out at Lake Mitchie.

dukemomLA
06-03-2008, 03:14 AM
It's disconcerting to me that Duke does not have a competitive softball team. The same goes for gymnastics. I've met many of the Olympic and top NCAA athletes in both these sports. Almost all of them would MORE than qualify academically for Duke.

I don't have personal knowledge of Duke's ability to house top swimmers and divers of both sexes, but again another sport with men and women who could meet Duke's academic requirements and more.

We call ourselves the "Harvard" of the south. And (perhaps due to athletics) the "Stanford" of the east. Let's prove it! I LOVE MBB & WBB, I am excited about golf, rowing, Lax, baseball, etc. BUT let's get to point where we can stand tall -- nationally and internationally -- with more and more and more, year by year.

Come on, guys, get off the dime! Duke could excel.

jimsumner
06-03-2008, 10:54 AM
Softball maybe. But gymnastics? It isn't even an ACC sport.

Despite, what some people seem to believe, the amount of resources Duke can spend on athletics is finite. Duke already has a number of sports that are woefully underfunded, e.g. track and field, swimming, wrestling, not to mention a baseball program that hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 1961. Does it make sense to start another underfunded program or would those finite reosurces be better spent augmenting existing programs?

My vote is for the latter.

Inonehand
06-03-2008, 12:48 PM
Softball maybe. But gymnastics? It isn't even an ACC sport.

Despite, what some people seem to believe, the amount of resources Duke can spend on athletics is finite. Duke already has a number of sports that are woefully underfunded, e.g. track and field, swimming, wrestling, not to mention a baseball program that hasn't made the NCAA Tournament since 1961. Does it make sense to start another underfunded program or would those finite reosurces be better spent augmenting existing programs?

My vote is for the latter.

Right on Jim! Duke has a very well-represented selection of sports for the student body that the university is trying to attract. Adding sports when we do not sufficiently support all the ones we have is simply digging a hole deeper than the one we are already in. If the university is doubling its subsidy to the athletic department, seven to eight million dollars a year can be utilized in some fantastic ways. My two cents...use half of it to endow scholarships already in place...use a quarter of it for adding scholarships to underfunded sports...use a quarter of it toward facility needs. As the endowment is built up, there will be even more funds available to do the second two items listed above. Two mil a year, over ten years takes care of baseball, field hockey, maybe a boathouse, and upgrades to Koskinen. That leaves the fundraising efforts toward the easier to sell, football and basketball projects.