Did anyone watch?

[DBFAN]

Did anyone watch the Spurs and Hornets game tonight or last night (depending on when you read this)? One of the commentators kept going on about how Chris Paul should be on the Olympic team, and if he wasn't he was going to boycott watching it. I was more than irritated by those comments. First it seemed to be a low blow at the coaching staff for not putting Paul on last years squad. If I were Deron Williams (spelling?) or Jason Kidd I would be very offended by this. If memory serves me Paul got a chance and did not do so well. Now grant it that was 2 years ago and his talent has grown, but the problem with Paul was not his talent level, but rather his inability to operate against world teams. Something that just takes a level of maturity that would probably only come with age. He maybe the most talented guard in the league (and that is a big maybe) but that does not mean he can just pick up a new offense and work with a group of new players. I for one feel his numbers may be attributed to the offense of Byron Scott. And the last time I looked Paul still can not play defense, but I guess that does not matter with most NBA people. Maybe I read a little too much but I found his comments to be attacks against the Olympic committee. I hope this does not go into the same group as the other Chris Paul discussion, because I want people to comment on what the announcer said.

[Atlanta Duke]

Here is an interesting recent analysis from the Boston Globe

When trying to gauge Paul's chances of making the Olympic team, the first word that comes to mind is "small" -- as in he may be too small for U.S. coach Mike Krzyzewski, who believes international play favors bigger guards. ...

Two numbers work against him: 6-0 and 175, his listed height and weight.

"It's a factor," Krzyzewski said. "I'm not saying it's the deciding factor because Chris has shown he's beaten a lot of bigger guards in the NBA this year. And he's stronger.

The problem for Paul is the guys who might be ahead of him are all much bigger. Kidd goes 6-4 and 210 pounds, Billups is listed at 6-3 and 202, and Williams is 6-3, 208.

And anyone who thinks "size matters" is only a cliche never watched Greece's big backcourt punish the smaller American guards two years ago in the semifinals of the world championships. Paul was on the floor that night, struggling to defend the pick-and-rolls that the Greeks used to shred the U.S. defense.

http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/olympics/articles/2008/05/13/to_make_olympic_team_paul_must_show_bigger_isnt_be tter/

K is building a team to win under international rules, which may not be well suited to Paul's game - but I agree it is hard to make an argument in favor of Jason Kidd, who has slipped.

[jma4life]

I did not catch those comments but I believe that whoever made the comments was really just emphasizing how ridiculously good Paul has been. He's an unbelievable talent. I know a lot of DBR people don't like him, but regardless of whether you think he is too chippy, he is an outstanding leader, outstanding teammate, and unbelievable player. And by all accounts, a great guy off the court.

[brevity]

And by all accounts, a great guy off the court.

Maybe so, but on the court he struggles to make his considerable talent overshadow his considerable attitude. I realize that the strongest roster for summer 2008 would probably include Chris Paul, but if I were coaching this team, I'd leave him off to avoid the possibility of an international incident.

[dukemomLA]

No one can deny that's he's had a great season. BUT GO JASON KIDD & DERON W. I personally don't think that CP will be an asset to the Olympic team. Experience, savvy, team mentality and knowledge of the international game are most important.

I root for CP -- as I cheer for most ACC players in the NBA. Despite his couple of dirty plays in college, we can't deny his talent. But the USA team will do better without him.

[jma4life]

"Maybe so, but on the court he struggles to make his considerable talent overshadow his considerable attitude. I realize that the strongest roster for summer 2008 would probably include Chris Paul, but if I were coaching this team, I'd leave him off to avoid the possibility of an international incident."


Do you really believe this? Is it not somewhat odd to you that the only people that would go this far are Duke and NC state fans.

There's no denying he's done some incredibly stupid things. The Hodge incident is one of the most disgraceful things I have ever witnessed in a sporting event. The Davidson incident and his many run ins against Duke were embarrassing moments as well. To this day, I still find him to be a chippy player (Bruce Bowen like) and that is something I very much dislike about his game. I understand why most Duke fans and many ACC fans in fact, still hold a grudge.

But to say that this overshadows his considerable talent seems like hyperbole to me. Maybe in college that was a legitimate claim. But the guy just finished higher than Lebron James in the MVP race, in only his, what, third season? He is one of the most respected players in the league and frankly, just dominated Jason Kidd in the last playoff series. So the chippiness should not over-shadow his skills.

And to be honest, I don't think his chippiness gets the attention it often deserves by announcers. You'll often see Paul do something questionable and hear announcers praise his grit. So if anything, I think that his chippiness is a little too under-shadowed. It is rightly undershadowed relative to his skill, but under-shadowed a little too much nonetheless.

And I can understand not putting him on the team for a variety of reasons. I fully trust K will make the right move whatever that is.

[yancem]

And the last time I looked Paul still can not play defense, but I guess that does not matter with most NBA people.

Umm, he made the nba all defensive second team team, wouldn't that seem to imply that he plays pretty good defense?

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2009

[jacone21]

When I watch him play, when I hear the announcers gush about his talent, I can't help but lament the fact that he's not battling J-Will for the "best point guard in the league" title. :( That's how it should have been.

[BobbyFan]

Maybe so, but on the court he struggles to make his considerable talent overshadow his considerable attitude.

No he doesn't.

[Matches]

Not sure how any of those larger guards from other countries would be able to contain Paul off the dribble. I realize there's less penetration and more zone in the international game, but geez... CP3 is about as quick a guard as I've ever seen. He ought to be able to create havok against pretty much ANY defense.

I do get K's preference for bigger guards in the international game, but there's just no way Paul should take a backseat to Jason Kidd at this point in Kidd's career.

[rtnorthrup]

The question in my mind is what would CP's role be on this Team USA? We already have Kobe and Lebron, both of whom like to operate with the basketball in their hands. I dont see this team running a true high screen and roll like a lot of the international teams do, so a pure point guard who beats people off the dribble doesnt seem a priority for me. Kidd plays better D, Chauncy is a better spot up shooter.

There are some questions, however: Kidd showed his age in the playoffs, and Chauncy is banged up.

Even if CP is on the team, I see his role being very limited.

[burnspbesq]

I did not catch those comments but I believe that whoever made the comments was really just emphasizing how ridiculously good Paul has been. He's an unbelievable talent. I know a lot of DBR people don't like him, but regardless of whether you think he is too chippy, he is an outstanding leader, outstanding teammate, and unbelievable player. And by all accounts, a great guy off the court.

And he's no more likely to be effective against a guy like Papaloukas than I am.

[Billy Dat]

None of the posts have touched upon the fact that CP3, according to the way they have set up the Olympic Senior Men's program under Colangelo, is already very much in the mix. He was part of the original group of players selected to participate in the 3 year experience, played in the World Championships after his rookie year (and started over Kirk Hinrich I might add), and didn't play last summer because he was injured. The competition for the point guard slot is going to be huge with Kidd, Billups, Deron Williams and CP3. The way the process seems to have worked the past few years, guys who feel like they aren't going to make the team tend to bow out before they get officially "cut". That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if Hinrich decides not to go to the July training camp in Las Vegas. Frankly, after the way he has played, I'd be shocked if CP3 didn't make the team. What he's got working against him is that he is associated with the bronze medal at the Worlds, and he didn't play on last summer's team which K and Colangelo seem to have fallen in love with. There was huge turnover due to injury from 06 to 07 with only Lebron, Melo and Dwight Howard playing on both squads. But, I think we'd all agree, the competition at the Worlds was much, much better then the comp at the Tournament of the Americas. CP3, being that much older, stronger and BETTER, should be a lock.

[gvtucker]

1. Watching the way Chris Paul has handled Tony Parker on D thus far, it is evident that he is an excellent defender now.

2. As banged up as Billups is, I think that this situation may resolve itself without anyone having to make a choice.

[ugadevil]

1. Watching the way Chris Paul has handled Tony Parker on D thus far, it is evident that he is an excellent defender now.


Some of the point guards that come to mind for other countries: Jose Calderon, Carlos Arroyo, Tony Parker, etc. I like our chances with Chris Paul playing defense or offense against those individuals. And I'm not sure I get the arguments about how Paul is someone who looks to score more than lead and run the offense? Usually, the biggest knock on Paul is that he looks to get his teammates too involved and doesn't take his own shot enough.

[BlueintheFace]

Not sure how any of those larger guards from other countries would be able to contain Paul off the dribble. I realize there's less penetration and more zone in the international game, but geez... CP3 is about as quick a guard as I've ever seen. He ought to be able to create havok against pretty much ANY defense.

I do get K's preference for bigger guards in the international game, but there's just no way Paul should take a backseat to Jason Kidd at this point in Kidd's career.


Not sure how any of those larger guards from other countries would be able to contain Paul off the dribble. I realize there's less penetration and more zone in the international game, but geez... CP3 is about as quick a guard as I've ever seen. He ought to be able to create havok against pretty much ANY defense.

I do get K's preference for bigger guards in the international game, but there's just no way Paul should take a backseat to Jason Kidd at this point in Kidd's career.

First, in the International game, every time paul gets in the lane off the pick and roll and slowly probes the defense and tosses in hesitation steps he will be literally knocked over and no foul will be called. This is really half of Paul's game...probing the defense and attacking the basket/alleyoops with a mixture of hesitation steps and quick bursts to the rim. The international game is just so much more physical and fouls are NEVER called for hand checks or pure body fouls. At the world championships you all may remember Coach K answering questions about adapting to the international game by saying that it was hard to get used to the fact that hand checks are never called. Long story short, Paul will get bounced around like a pinball and be yelling for a foul the whole time.

Second, on the defensive end Paul will be a HUGE liability. Yes he is a good face up ball defender, but who cares? Paul got absolutely OWNED this season by bigger guards like Chauncey Billups. This is what happens in the international game. Big guards go down low and post up the little guys and then pass out of a double team or simply shoot over their opponent. If you watched any games with some of the lesser international powers a few years ago when we took third, this trend was certainly on display.

Paul is a great NBA guard, but in a more physical and less whistle-heavy international game, he simply won't be able to utilize his strengths. Deron and Kidd will. Such is life.

[BlueintheFace]

We already have Kobe and Lebron, both of whom like to operate with the basketball in their hands.

That is certainly not how we played in the qualifying games last summer... Kidd was as pure a point guard as they come with tons of assists and the ball usually in his hands. Meanwhile Kobe and Lebron hardly ever started the offense and more often finished it. Melo may be an exception here since he literally could not miss and so turned quite a few possessions into the Melo show, but who can complain when every shot is going down?

[gvtucker]

Second, on the defensive end Paul will be a HUGE liability. Yes he is a good face up ball defender, but who cares? Paul got absolutely OWNED this season by bigger guards like Chauncey Billups. This is what happens in the international game. Big guards go down low and post up the little guys and then pass out of a double team or simply shoot over their opponent. If you watched any games with some of the lesser international powers a few years ago when we took third, this trend was certainly on display.

The facts argue otherwise.

Paul was "owned" by guards like Billups? Bunk.

Let's look at the two times they faced each other this season.

5 Dec
Here's the lines:
Billups: 4-16 from the field, 18 pts, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, 1 steal
Paul: 4-14 from the field, 14 points, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, 1 steal

Pretty close that game.

Now go to the other game they played.

16 Mar
Billups: 6-10, 17 pts, 5 asts, 1 TO, 2 stls
Paul: 6-12, 14 pts, 14 asts, 4 TO, 1 stl

If anything Paul has the better line there.

Without question, it is an absurd notion to state the Billups owned him.

Heck, look at Paul's lines from every game. (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_paul/game_by_game_stats.html) If anyone owns anyone here, it is Paul that owns the other point guards, not the other way around.

[Classof06]

Paul is a smaller guard and we do have Deron Williams and Jason Kidd. But we all saw what Paul did to Kidd in the first round.

The bottom line is that the best PG in the NBA should at least get consideration. And Chris Paul is the best PG in the NBA.

[rsvman]

Chris Paul is outstanding, no question about it.


But y'all have seen Deron Williams play, right?

[DBFAN]

Chris Paul is outstanding, no question about it.


But y'all have seen Deron Williams play, right?

Co Sign

[DBFAN]

I guess when I originally started this thread I went on a little too much about CP3 himself. I think I was more flabbergasted by the announcer going on for 5 minutes about how Paul should be on the Olympic team. Obviously that means that someone would probably needed to be cut. And If I were Deron Williams and Jason Kidd I would be offended. Please do not forget that even with all of Paul's accolades we lost with him, and we won with Kidd. Just wanted to put that out there.:cool:

[Kfanarmy]

jma4life;

where does this come from:
He is one of the most respected players in the league ...From what I've seen/heard here in New Orleans and on the tube, his physical ability to play is respected and admired, but he as a player is seen to be dirty. A lot of local and NBA fans are enamored at the moment with him and they may be for a long time, but I think he has a tendency to be a dirty player when things aren't going his way.
I frankly have been disgusted by the conduct of the last couple of Men's-- read NBA-- teams representing us in the Olympics: cursing at other players and officials, obscene gestures to other countries' fans, wanting to fight when the runaway score doesn't come...not to mention bad play.
I don't think individual superstars with attitude problems are helpful to the US image or team sports in general. If he is as dirty off the ball as I've seen him be in a few games here, I would prefer he not represent our country...regardless of outcome.

[BlueintheFace]

The facts argue otherwise.

Paul was "owned" by guards like Billups? Bunk.

Let's look at the two times they faced each other this season.

5 Dec
Here's the lines:
Billups: 4-16 from the field, 18 pts, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, 1 steal
Paul: 4-14 from the field, 14 points, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, 1 steal

Pretty close that game.

Now go to the other game they played.

16 Mar
Billups: 6-10, 17 pts, 5 asts, 1 TO, 2 stls
Paul: 6-12, 14 pts, 14 asts, 4 TO, 1 stl

If anything Paul has the better line there.

Without question, it is an absurd notion to state the Billups owned him.

Heck, look at Paul's lines from every game. (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_paul/game_by_game_stats.html) If anyone owns anyone here, it is Paul that owns the other point guards, not the other way around.

First of all, looking at your numbers it is worth mentioning that Billups kept Paul below his scoring average for the season while hitting his own averages for scoring and assists.

Second, I wasn't referring only to Chauncey, but rather to other more physical guards and how they played him. What I am referring to is matchup difficulties.

Against Deron Williams for example... here are his numbers on the season (pts/ assists)-- 12.25/9.25

...but again, I am talking about how the bigger more physical guards can just go through him or back him down. PG's posting up in the NBA is fairly rare, but in International play... oh boy.

He is the best pg in the NBA, but what most of you are forgetting is that this means next to nothing for International play (see- the last decade of USA basketball)

[Carlos]

I guess when I originally started this thread I went on a little too much about CP3 himself. I think I was more flabbergasted by the announcer going on for 5 minutes about how Paul should be on the Olympic team. Obviously that means that someone would probably needed to be cut. And If I were Deron Williams and Jason Kidd I would be offended. Please do not forget that even with all of Paul's accolades we lost with him, and we won with Kidd. Just wanted to put that out there.:cool:

First, I think it's almost a given that Team USA will take three point guards and, as gvtucker pointed out, it looks like Billups may be the odd man out. You have to take Kidd because of the way he performed last summer. But the two best point guards in the league this year were Paul and Deron Williams and I think you'll see them on the team as well.

[KandG]

I personally think Paul should make the team, but the reservations about him are reasonable. In this thread, his defense is being both underrated and overrated -- he's decent, but the idea that he's a second team all NBA defensive guard is a bit of a joke (given how overrated steals are as a measure of defense).

I think this analysis of his defense (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-199/When-Chris-Paul-Plays-Defense.html?post=true), though a bit inconclusive, is the best I've read to date.

[jma4life]

By respected, I am referring to the media. Any time he is on t.v. he is praised. Most analysts absolutely love him.

For what it's worth, his teammates also have a strong devotion to him which shows that within the team he's highly respected as well.

[Billy Dat]

Disclaimer - I am WAY more bullish on CP3 then most of the folks who posted to this thread and frankly am scratching my head at everyone's continued doubts.

If the Hornets knock off the Spurs tonight and CP3 dominates the way he has all series, then he moves up a significant notch in the pantheon. If the Hornets progress further, all bets are off and I'd say he was a shoe-in.

As for comparing the 2006 World's with the 2007 Tourny of the Americas, it's apples and oranges. The competition at the World's was leagues beyond what took place in Las Vegas last summer and CP3's game wasn't near where it is now.

The only thing working for Kidd right now, as far as making this team, is his tenure and "leadership ability". As for everyone questioning Paul's character and favoring Kidd, I'd prefer the guy who punched someone in the jewels during a game to someone who open hands his wife across the face in front of their kid.

Paul is the acknowledges leader of the Hornets, his teamates LOVE the guy, and his respect level around the league is very high.

I think he's a lock and Deron, Kidd and Chauncey are fighting it out for the remaining 3 spots.