USC in trouble

[Channing]

Not sure if this was just a repeat ... but I caught a couple mintues of OTL today, looking at OJ Mayo, and someone who "allegedly" provided him with cash while in high school, and in college.

i guess USC made their bed ... now it might by time to sleep in it.

[davekay1971]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3390695

I'm sure most of you have read the espn.com story linked above. If not, it's worth a read - big-time hoops recruiting can be a dirty, dirty business. This just reassures me that Coach K and his staff know what they're doing by recruiting the kids they do...and avoiding others.

[K24U]

There need to be tougher penalties for the person taking the money, in this case OJ Mayo. OJ Mayo will be off to the NBA without any penalties against him. The NBA should step in and agree to suspend anyone receiving payments while in college for a one year period without pay. That would put a stop to all this nonsense.

The problem with NCAA sanctions and penalties is they hurt players that had nothing to do with the infraction. The NCAA should make it hurt the people involved not the innocent kids that this will eventually end up hurting.

[El_Diablo]

I'm shocked, shocked, to find that this is going on in here!
:eek:

[davekay1971]

I'm shocked, shocked, to find that this is going on in here!
:eek:

who'd-a-thunk-it? :confused:

[RelativeWays]

USC has to be feeling the heat from this and the Reggie Bush situation. Supposedly the NCAA rules committee loves to nail big schools so I won't be surprised if both the football and basketball teams suffer some sort of penalties.

[gotham devil]

USC has to be feeling the heat from this and the Reggie Bush situation. Supposedly the NCAA rules committee loves to nail big schools so I won't be surprised if both the football and basketball teams suffer some sort of penalties.

:D :D :D

Please
"The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky, it's going to give Cleveland State two more years"-ever ethical Jerry Tarkanian


UCLA (Sam Gilbert), Ohio St. Football (Clarrett and the contents of his stolen car), Memphis basketball (break in/fur coats and jewels, Worldwide Wes)

http://njmg.typepad.com/zagsblog/2008/05/mayo-got-illega.html

[trinity92]

That kid is probably the best player in his class, and USC beat out AZ State and UNC for his services.

Stay tuned.

[gotham devil]

That kid is probably the best player in his class, and USC beat out AZ State and UNC for his services.

Stay tuned.

Derozan is tight with Master P's kid, Percy Miller.

Wall St. Journal did an excellent expose on that relationship and USC.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB120485166974418241-lMyQjAxMDI4MDA0NzgwNTcxWj.html

[davekay1971]

That kid is probably the best player in his class, and USC beat out AZ State and UNC for his services.

Stay tuned.

Think Gillroy will be in Ol' Roy's office when the Derozen calls changing his commitment to UNC?

[slower]

Derozan is tight with Master P's kid, Percy Miller.

Yeah, but can he dance like Danny Green? :D

[Devilsfan]

This is a football first school that by the way also plays basketball, so if their program goes farther in the tournament then we do it might make a lot of people wonder and speculate. This couldn't just be talented players and good coaching, or could it?

[roywhite]

This is a football first school that by the way also plays basketball, so if their program goes farther in the tournament then we do it might make a lot of people wonder and speculate. This couldn't just be talented players and good coaching, or could it?

Last year USC finished 21-12 with a first round loss in the NCAA tournament.

[ugadevil]

Not sure if this was just a repeat ... but I caught a couple mintues of OTL today, looking at OJ Mayo, and someone who "allegedly" provided him with cash while in high school, and in college.

i guess USC made their bed ... now it might by time to sleep in it.

I saw that story as well. I couldn't believe the comments from Mayo's own mother. She basically said she knows it's bad situation and she didn't trust the people O.J. was hanging out with, but she had to support him.

[CameronBornAndBred]

From what I read this was between Guillory, Duffy Associates, and Mayo. USC happened to be the unfortunate school that is now tied to Mayo, but did nothing wrong on their own.
"USC said in a statement that NCAA and Pac-10 officials have looked into Mayo's status "before and during his enrollment at USC, and did not identify any amateurism violations.""--source (http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8127552/Report:-Mayo-got-cash,-benefits-from-promoter)

I agree with the earlier post in that there should be a way to penalize the player more than the school. It sounds like Mayo had been taking cash for a while.

[Channing]

From what I read this was between Guillory, Duffy Associates, and Mayo. USC happened to be the unfortunate school that is now tied to Mayo, but did nothing wrong on their own.
"USC said in a statement that NCAA and Pac-10 officials have looked into Mayo's status "before and during his enrollment at USC, and did not identify any amateurism violations.""--source (http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8127552/Report:-Mayo-got-cash,-benefits-from-promoter)

I agree with the earlier post in that there should be a way to penalize the player more than the school. It sounds like Mayo had been taking cash for a while.

don't they have a little bit of a responsibility to look into things when a 43 year old former basketball tournament promoter is hanging around their star player, driving a 50,000 dollar car, and the star player lands up with flat screen tv's in his room and new clothes all the time?

[Channing]

I saw that story as well. I couldn't believe the comments from Mayo's own mother. She basically said she knows it's bad situation and she didn't trust the people O.J. was hanging out with, but she had to support him.

its a tough position for a mom. See the piece on Chris Anderson (i think thats his name) on the front page of ESPN.com yesterday.

[ugadevil]

don't they have a little bit of a responsibility to look into things when a 43 year old former basketball tournament promoter is hanging around their star player, driving a 50,000 dollar car, and the star player lands up with flat screen tv's in his room and new clothes all the time?

If they are being honest in saying they cooperated with the NCAA and PAC 10 officials, it's hard to believe no one saw what was going on. Whether it's USC, PAC 10, or NCAA investigators, how does no one notice the benefits he's receiving? In the Outside the Lines story, the informant says they never told O.J. they were violating NCAA rules because he would be scared away if he knew it was wrong. Are you kidding?! How does everyone in this story seem so clueless?

[roywhite]

If they are being honest in saying they cooperated with the NCAA and PAC 10 officials, it's hard to believe no one saw what was going on. Whether it's USC, PAC 10, or NCAA investigators, how does no one notice the benefits he's receiving? In the Outside the Lines story, the informant says they never told O.J. they were violating NCAA rules because he would be scared away if he knew it was wrong. Are you kidding?! How does everyone in this story seem so clueless?

See no evil? Hear no evil?

School officials may not have wanted to look too closely, for fear of what they might find.

[ugadevil]

School officials may not have wanted to look too closely, for fear of what they might find.

Understandable. Yet, how would that explain PAC 10 and NCAA investigators not being able to find anything? It seems like the NCAA has been able to find much more difficult material in other cases. This one just seems like a giveaway. People were asking questions about Mayo since his freshman year in high school.

[dukeimac]

There are ways to get around everything, i.e. tax laws. For the same reason tax laws are so complicated so are the NCAA regulations. Write a law and you can find someone who is looking for ways to get around it.

All OJ Mayo was was a money making machine to someone. He had people around him that only saw the money; family, friends and want-a-be's. Those that object to it get some cash and they don't object for too long.

I do believe the coaches know what is going on. It just comes down to the pressure of winning. And the way to win sometimes is by recruiting those guys that might have some baggage, i.e. Huggins at Cincinnati, Bliss at Baylor, etc. Look at Maryland and there latest recruiting issue. A win at all cost thing.

The coach needs to be disciplined, i.e. Coach K. Sometimes people are puzzled why Coach K gives up on a top recruit but I think it is because he knows things about the guy that he doesn't want to get involved with. It might be things like this or that they only will stay for a year, i.e. Love.

I think Coach K is the MOST reputable coach in the game today. But I think, not fully sure, that a few years back he might have almost run into a similar issue with Corey Maggette. There were people screaming for an investigation into him after he left Duke for the pros after his freshman year. I believe people were saying his AAU coach had some influence over him and did some money transactions with Corey. Reports were, from Correy I believe, that Coach K was very supportive of him going pro event though he didn't start for Duke. Things looked funny.

There are too many cases like Mayo's to effectively investigate them so they slip by until someone close the situation comes forward. And I bet one person, at least, is upset they made this guy mad. It probably came down to this guy not getting his fair share of the $200,000.

[Channing]

All OJ Mayo was was a money making machine to someone. He had people around him that only saw the money; family, friends and want-a-be's. Those that object to it get some cash and they don't object for too long.


I understand your point, but in this particular case, from everything that has come out, and everything I have read, his mother has walked the straight and narrow and tried to keep him on the straight and narrow. She is in no way like Lebron's mom and her antics when he was in high school. In fact, she tried to counsel OJ to stay away from Guillory.

[Classof06]

I saw that story as well. I couldn't believe the comments from Mayo's own mother. She basically said she knows it's bad situation and she didn't trust the people O.J. was hanging out with, but she had to support him.

True. While most future D1 athletes consult with their parents on where to go to school and which offer to accept, the bottom line is that parents (OJ Mayo's mom included) have absolutely no legal say over where their kid is going to college. The reality is that no matter where the kid goes, the parents aren't footing the bill, so all they have are merely suggestions. Obviously most kids look to their parents for advice, opinions, etc., but it's the kid's decision in the end. Mayo's mom has said since high school that she didn't want OJ going out to LA for college and that she didn't like or trust Guillory (Mayo's chief confidant).

But, as crazy as it sounds, her hands were tied.

[juise]

This one just seems like a giveaway. People were asking questions about Mayo since his freshman year in high school.

That's what I was thinking. Earlier in the thread, someone said that USC just happened to have this kid who was receiving money from a third party. I think USC had a pretty good idea that there was some risk in taking on Mayo. It's hard not to get that impression if you've heard the story about how Mayo landed in Tim Floyd's lap (he recieved a random phone call from someone who represented Mayo).

[ugadevil]

It's hard not to get that impression if you've heard the story about how Mayo landed in Tim Floyd's lap (he recieved a random phone call from someone who represented Mayo).

If I'm not mistaken, Outside the Lines made it sound like that "someone" was actually Rodney Guillory.

[Turtleboy]

It's hard not to get that impression if you've heard the story about how Mayo landed in Tim Floyd's lap (he recieved a random phone call from someone who represented Mayo).What was random about it?

[juise]

What was random about it?

Because USC had done nothing to recruit him prior to that contact. Read up (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/21/sports/ncaabasketball/21usc.html?_r=1&oref=slogin).

UGA, you're right... it was Guillory. At the time, he was just some guy (not a coach, family member, etc.). I was wrong in that the initial contact didn't come via phone. Even more strange.

[roywhite]

What was random about it?

"Unsolicited" would probably be a better word, according to the stories. Floyd was not recruiting Mayo for USC, and was surprised about his interest, but the fact that USC was local to the "advisor" makes it not random.

[Channing]

i wonder how long it is until the IRS decides that they want a piece of this action. If the IRS starts knocking down the doors of players who are getting benefits this whole thing could be taken to another level.

[SoCalDukeFan]

in both the OJ Mayo deal and the Reggie Bush deal are not exactly choir boys.

So, after the Nifong lacrosse hoax, I will wait before passing judgment.

I do think that somehow the player's taking money need to be penalized. Getting the IRS involved would probably be a good thing. The slimeballs who pay high schoolers under the table need to be punished also.

SoCal

[Noteware]

It looks like there is a precedent for the IRS being involved. The Fab Five loans from Ed Martin were uncovered by the IRS, and Webber plead guilty to an obstruction of justice claim. It does not seem that the IRS had a claim against Webber directly for accepting the "loans". Check out the Wikipedia description http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan_basketball_scandal. (If I did the link correctly.)

[Turk]

Seems like a case study of why a school should avoid "one-and-done" players if possible (emphasis on the word "school", not "factory"). Granted, the facts are not in and the whole story could be sour grapes by a hanger-on who got kicked to the curb. I did remember thinking USC was a strange choice when Mayo signed there...

Could you imagine what would have happened if Lebron had to sign on for a year somewhere before heading to the NBA? Call me a cynic, but I have a hard time believing the Mayo story is rare... Too much money sloshing around at the top of the pyramid, and now people are taking seriously the statements made by 8th graders....

USC is putting on an excellent Sgt Schultz performance... (how badly am I dating myself with a Hogan's Heroes reference?) "I zee nuttink!! Nuttink!!"

For you young'uns, here's a sample. Go to the 4:30 mark or so to see a typical example of the estimable John Banner's signature phrase....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVERD_ewDxw

[dukeimac]

The money is running rampant and everyone is to blame. I'm willing to bet any money the whistle blower didn't feel like he was getting is fair share and that is why he did it. One report states Guillory got $200,00 and about $30,000 of that went to Mayo. If true, I'm sure mom got part of that. I'm not sure of her story but if she a single mom and working two jobs to feed her family, when a guy offers her some cash I would believe it would be very tempting.

I would believe Guillory saw Mayo and thought he could be something special. Sells the idea of the kid to an agent. Once the agent buys into him they want him to go to a school that can show case him, hence USC. Guillory sells USC on this kid and convinces the kid USC gives him the best chance to show case his talent, tells him they will start you as a freshman. The agent likes the option, since the kid will be show cased and will get to the bigs sooner this way for a bigger price.

USC gets a talented guy who can help a coach win right away. The coach wins!
Mayo gets to start right away, make an impact and his NBA stock goes up. The player wins (everyone wants to start as a freshman)!
The agent gets the prospect showcased and a good chance he'll be worth some bucks in the pros. The agent gets a cut of a larger pot because he has been show cased. The agent wins!
For his services, Guillory gets a kick back. And he wins!
If mom or dad are hesitant and could derail everything, Guillory kicks in a few bucks to make the parent happy. The parent usually isn't a a position to say no to some real easy money. The parent wins!

It has to be an alarm when a guy sells you on a kid that is no relation to them and they never coached the kid, as the coach you have to know something isn't right. AAU coaches are getting in more trouble all the time because of things similar to this. The smell is bad, the Coach knew.

[K24U]

In one of the articles I read yesterday on OJ Mayo said that his agent Rodney Guillory was in Floyds office when Mayo committed. By all accounts there have been questions about his life style for a few years. Flotd and USC wnat us to believe they had no knowledge. What a crock of crap.

[Bluedog]

Minor tangent: In Luke Winn's SI.com article, he states that "The school sold Mayo's jerseys for $75 a pop." I thought schools are forbidden to sell players' jerseys while they're in school. You think Winn was just mistaken? Or am I mistaken with the rule?

[Acymetric]

Minor tangent: In Luke Winn's SI.com article, he states that "The school sold Mayo's jerseys for $75 a pop." I thought schools are forbidden to sell players' jerseys while they're in school. You think Winn was just mistaken? Or am I mistaken with the rule?

It can't have the name, but I'm fairly certain it could have the number on it at the time. So perhaps they're selling a jersey with his number on it, which I think is acceptable (it certainly happens in any case).

[JasonEvans]

Make no mistake, Ropdney Gillory was a known "runner" for BDA. I suppose it is possible that Tim Floyd did not know who he was when Gillory first walked into his office but if you tossed Gillory's name out to more than 2 or 3 other people who really know college recruiting, I am sure someone would have told you who he was. What's more, I would question how someone who was a total unknown would even get into Tim Floyd's office in the first place. I mean, could one of us walk in off the street, claim we represented Derrick Favors, and get a one-on-one with Coach K? I doubt it.

Tim Floyd knew who he was talking to and knew what Rodney Gillory was about.

Oh, worth noting (Luke Wynn notes it in his article) -- Gillory had been cited for begin a runner in the past and arranging for a kid to attend a school. The kid was Jeff Trepagnier... who went to USC.

-Jason "USC/Floyd were bad guys in all this-- not horrible, but bad enough to get some punishment" Evans

[gw67]

Jason - The high school kid was Tito Maddox (see link below). Trepagnier of USC was suspended for a few games because he accepted plane ticket from Guillory. According to link, Fresno State lost three scholarships and had a self-imposed two-year probation.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/printedition/la-sp-maddox13-2008may13,0,6137597.story

Floyd and USC should be severely punished to send a message.

gw67

[Clipsfan]

USC is known around here as a school that plays dirty (especially on the football side...Bush was just the tip of the iceburg). There was little doubt that something shady went on with the Mayo commitment and there is also little doubt that Floyd thought that everything was on the up-and-up. However, proving it is always difficult.

UCLA just hired a new football coach whom I bet will lead to recruiting violations within the next 5 years...

[ugadevil]

USC is known around here as a school that plays dirty (especially on the football side...Bush was just the tip of the iceburg). There was little doubt that something shady went on with the Mayo commitment and there is also little doubt that Floyd thought that everything was on the up-and-up. However, proving it is always difficult.

UCLA just hired a new football coach whom I bet will lead to recruiting violations within the next 5 years...

Good thing Stanford hired a basketball coach who will take it to both schools!

[gvtucker]

Hopefully, the one good thing that will come out of all this is that maybe everyone will start to realize that the NBA rule madating one year of college is idiotic. If a kid has zero interest in college, forcing him to go for one year in order to have the opportunity to play in the NBA is silly.

Alternatively, if the NBA is slow to recognize this and colleges start to stay away from kids that are clear risks, maybe it will give rise to a stream of high school kids that go over to Europe to play for a year.

[JasonEvans]

Hopefully, the one good thing that will come out of all this is that maybe everyone will start to realize that the NBA rule madating one year of college is idiotic. If a kid has zero interest in college, forcing him to go for one year in order to have the opportunity to play in the NBA is silly.


A-men!

Make it like baseball. Go out of high school or stay in school at least 3 years. That is how it should be. It makes perfect sense and allows a college basketball program to plan its future roster better as opposed to wondering every year who will stay and who will go. It makes perfect sense and provides meaningful value for both sides -- pro and college ball.

Sigh-- oh well.

--Jason "I would love to see several prominent coaches step up and begin to advocate loudly for this system" Evans

[SilkyJ]

I know its a ways off, but IIRC the NCAA and NBA are in talks about a 2-year minimum that would go into effect sometime around 2010-2012? DBR definitely had something about this on the main page not too long ago. (I'm on deadline at work so didn't have time to search thoroughly and link, sorry...)

[gvtucker]

A-men!

Make it like baseball. Go out of high school or stay in school at least 3 years. That is how it should be. It makes perfect sense and allows a college basketball program to plan its future roster better as opposed to wondering every year who will stay and who will go. It makes perfect sense and provides meaningful value for both sides -- pro and college ball.

Sigh-- oh well.

--Jason "I would love to see several prominent coaches step up and begin to advocate loudly for this system" Evans

Biggest reason why it should never be like baseball--to make things fair, if you make a kid entering college stay for 3 years, you should also make the school commit to the kid with a 3 year scholarship. And that ain't happening.

I'd rather it be like ice hockey. Going to college is a perfectly acceptable route to the pros. And teams can draft kids at any point in their college career. If a kid has zero interest in college, the OHL is a valid option In fact, the OHL is a better route to the pros if all you're interested in is hockey.

The D-League already exists, it wouldn't take too much of a change to make it a valid route to the NBA instead of college.

[Shammrog]

Good thing Stanford hired a basketball coach who will take it to both schools!


I sure hope so. Of course, to hoop there you need to be able to read; which could prove a major disadvantage.

[Classof06]

Jim Rome brought Gregg Doyel on his radio show this afternoon to discuss the whole USC-OJ Mayo fiasco.

Of course, Doyel had to take his obligatory shot at Duke. When asked about the prevalence of these Guillory-Mayo type relationships in college athletics and how Tim Floyd claims he knew nothing of the monetary relationshi\p between the two, Doyel brought up how Corey Maggette had a relationship with a known drug dealer who undoubtedly gave Maggette money in high school while Krzyzewski claimed he had absolutely no knowledge of it. This is really the first I've heard of this story but if anyone has any credible information on this, I'd be interested to hear about it. I'd rather take your word than take Doyel's.

[BD80]

It is disreputable that Floyd and USC may avoid severe sanctions because they will not be deemed "repeat offenders" because the Bush violations are still going through the investigative process.

Floyd will still have to pay the piper via a lost scholarship because Mayo almost certainly will not graduate. It is also doubtful that OJ has been making the academic progress now required each year. His quotes on the issue seem to indicate he is no longer on campus and is concentrating soley on preparing for the draft and the pre-draft workouts. Doesn't sound like he will be finishing whatever course load was required. Of course, Floyd must have more than enough scholarships if he can throw one away on the rapper buddy of DeRozan, the next one-and-done recruit.

USC deserves the harshest punishment, the rules violated were to establish fair competition amongst academic intitutions. Duffy should also be decertified for funding someone as stupid as Guillory. Mayo will pay in the long run - his "brand" has been diminished, but more his character reputation with owners will suffer. Owners are starting to look at the people upon whom they are gambling hundreds of millions of dollars. Mayo is looking like a risk when max contract time comes in 4 years.

It is interesting that Chase Buddinger will fly back to Arizona to take his ONE final (story linked on DBR front page about Miles Simon). Interesting that he can spend weeks training in California and still qualify to take a final. Interesting that he only has one final. Interesting that he is keeping is options open.

[roywhite]

Jim Rome brought Gregg Doyel on his radio show this afternoon to discuss the whole USC-OJ Mayo fiasco.

Of course, Doyel had to take his obligatory shot at Duke. When asked about the prevalence of these Guillory-Mayo type relationships in college athletics and how Tim Floyd claims he knew nothing of the monetary relationshi\p between the two, Doyel brought up how Corey Maggette had a relationship with a known drug dealer who undoubtedly gave Maggette money in high school while Krzyzewski claimed he had absolutely no knowledge of it. This is really the first I've heard of this story but if anyone has any credible information on this, I'd be interested to hear about it. I'd rather take your word than take Doyel's.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=dw-ncaafavorites&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

This is a fairly good recap of the Maggette case. From the article:

"Duke has a wrinkle in its defense. Maggette took his money before he was enrolled at the school. Crudup and Camby took theirs while in college.

"At no time when he was associated with Duke did [Maggette] take the payments," Burness said. "It is very different when someone is enrolled."


I don't think there was ever a penalty imposed on Duke, but I may be wrong (a fine perhaps?).

[devilish]

I don't think there was ever a penalty imposed on Duke, but I may be wrong (a fine perhaps?).

Perhaps the "penalty" was him leaving after only one year.

[Channing]

It is disreputable that Floyd and USC may avoid severe sanctions because they will not be deemed "repeat offenders" because the Bush violations are still going through the investigative process.

Floyd will still have to pay the piper via a lost scholarship because Mayo almost certainly will not graduate. It is also doubtful that OJ has been making the academic progress now required each year. His quotes on the issue seem to indicate he is no longer on campus and is concentrating soley on preparing for the draft and the pre-draft workouts. Doesn't sound like he will be finishing whatever course load was required. Of course, Floyd must have more than enough scholarships if he can throw one away on the rapper buddy of DeRozan, the next one-and-done recruit.

USC deserves the harshest punishment, the rules violated were to establish fair competition amongst academic intitutions. Duffy should also be decertified for funding someone as stupid as Guillory. Mayo will pay in the long run - his "brand" has been diminished, but more his character reputation with owners will suffer. Owners are starting to look at the people upon whom they are gambling hundreds of millions of dollars. Mayo is looking like a risk when max contract time comes in 4 years.

It is interesting that Chase Buddinger will fly back to Arizona to take his ONE final (story linked on DBR front page about Miles Simon). Interesting that he can spend weeks training in California and still qualify to take a final. Interesting that he only has one final. Interesting that he is keeping is options open.

didnt boozer manage to complete summer school classes while playing for the U20 team one summer? I could be wrong but I think that was the case.

[roywhite]

Perhaps the "penalty" was him leaving after only one year.

I think Maggette had come and gone from Duke by the time the Piggie case came to light. Now, whether, this was known behind closed doors, and contributed to a mutual decision for Corey to leave early...I have no idea.

It still gripes me that we didn't use our bench more in that '99 Title game vs UConn. Maggette played a grand total of 2 minutes, if I recall.

[Classof06]

I don't think there was ever a penalty imposed on Duke, but I may be wrong (a fine perhaps?).

If there was a penalty imposed on Duke, I'm sure I and every other college basketball fan would've heard about it. It would probably be like heaven on Earth for most fans.

[roywhite]

Hopefully, the one good thing that will come out of all this is that maybe everyone will start to realize that the NBA rule madating one year of college is idiotic. If a kid has zero interest in college, forcing him to go for one year in order to have the opportunity to play in the NBA is silly.

Alternatively, if the NBA is slow to recognize this and colleges start to stay away from kids that are clear risks, maybe it will give rise to a stream of high school kids that go over to Europe to play for a year.

You make a good point. For discussion purposes....if the NBA stuck with an eligibility threshold of at least one year after high school, but permitted guys to go to college or the D-league, would that really work?

Wouldn't an OJ Mayo still perhaps choose USC or whatever to gain greater exposure and a chance to play in the big stage NCAA tournament?

[JasonEvans]

Jim Rome brought Gregg Doyel on his radio show this afternoon to discuss the whole USC-OJ Mayo fiasco.

Of course, Doyel had to take his obligatory shot at Duke. When asked about the prevalence of these Guillory-Mayo type relationships in college athletics and how Tim Floyd claims he knew nothing of the monetary relationshi\p between the two, Doyel brought up how Corey Maggette had a relationship with a known drug dealer who undoubtedly gave Maggette money in high school while Krzyzewski claimed he had absolutely no knowledge of it. This is really the first I've heard of this story but if anyone has any credible information on this, I'd be interested to hear about it. I'd rather take your word than take Doyel's.

If the drug dealer came into Coach K's office saying that he represented Maggette then maybe, maybe, you could make an argument that the situation was similar.

If the drug dealer hung out in the Duke locker room and attended Duke games with Maggette's tickets...

If Maggette had a $1000+ TV set in his dorm room paid for by the drug dealer...

The key factor here is the fact that there is no way USC can claim it had no idea that Mayo had a relationship with a very shady character. That shady character delivered Mayo to USC and was around the player/program constantly this year.

I am guessing that the "drug dealer" here is Myron Piggie, who did provide about $2000 to Maggette and several other players who were on his AAU sumemr team in Kansas City. To the best of my knowledge Coach K and Duke never had any contact at all with Piggie and Piggie certainly did not hang out around Durham while Maggette was here.

To compare the two situations would seem to be quite a bit of a stretch.

--Jason "Gregg Doyle will never forgive K for not letting Gregg write that book" Evans

[Karl Beem]

I think Maggette had come and gone from Duke by the time the Piggie case came to light. Now, whether, this was known behind closed doors, and contributed to a mutual decision for Corey to leave early...I have no idea.

It still gripes me that we didn't use our bench more in that '99 Title game vs UConn. Maggette played a grand total of 2 minutes, if I recall.

11 minutes (http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/mayhem/history/yearbyyear/1999). I don't recall him playing very well.

[roywhite]

11 minutes (http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/mayhem/history/yearbyyear/1999). I don't recall him playing very well.

Thanks, Karl...

I've followed Duke basketball for over 40 years, and I think the 1999 title game pains me more than any other game. :(

[El_Diablo]

Biggest reason why it should never be like baseball--to make things fair, if you make a kid entering college stay for 3 years, you should also make the school commit to the kid with a 3 year scholarship. And that ain't happening.

I thought that scholarships pretty much HAVE to be renewed every year unless there is sufficient cause to dismiss a player from the team. This prevents schools from simply cutting players for younger/better ones whenver they are available. This in effect guarantees 4-year scholarships, so long as the player abides by the rules.

Someone, please correct me if I'm off-base on this.

[Carlos]

First the facts... Corey Maggette did in fact take money from his AAU coach - Myron Piggie, a guy who was arrested and convicted of dealing drugs. As I recall, the amount in question was about $2K but that doesn't really much matter.

Duke took a huge pounding after all this came to light, mainly on the charges that "they should have known" about Piggie and the rest of the guys on that AAU which Wetzel declared was known around the AAU circuit as "Team Cash 'n' Carry." Interestingly, none of the guys who were so adamant about what Duke should have known about Maggette and the rest of his teammates were confident enough in the story to write about it before Maggette and the rest of his teammates signed with colleges. So the idea that "everyone knew" is hard to reconcile with the fact that nobody was reporting what "everyone knew" when it was happening.

BTW - the last fan base who should be in a position to criticize Duke for their involvement with Maggette would be the folks just down the road wearing the ugly blue uniforms. Maggette's AAU team, the Kansas City Children's Mercy Hospital 76ers was underwritten by two major sources. The first was Nike, the second was Tom Grant, a wealthy Kansas City businessman. Tom also happened to be a major University of Kansas booster.

The 76ers had a great array of talent to go along with Maggette. Kareem Rush (who dumped almost 30 points on Duke in the 2001 NCAA Tournament game against Missouri) and his brother JaRon Rush (who was as talented as Kareem and their other brother Brandon but basically drank himself out of basketball) combined with Korleone Young who went straight to the NBA and then straight overseas when it was clear he couldn't play.

The short story to all of this is that it was Tom Grant who hired Piggie and it was Tom Grant who was a huge benefactor of all those guys on that team, especially JaRon Rush who was driving around in a car that was paid for by Grant. To be fair, Grant actually does do a lot of charitable work and has paid for more than a few kids' college tuition.

But, the timeline of things goes something like this:


Grant hires Piggie and funds the operation
Rush verbally commits to Kansas
The whole Piggie mess becomes public knowledge and Grant fires Piggie
Rush makes some sort of public statement along the lines of he doesn't like the way that Roy Williams substitutes but that he "still may go to Kansas."
Roy cuts ties with JaRon
JaRon signs with UCLA


So if JaRon honors his original commitment to Kansas then Ol' Roy is right there in the middle of all of this, perhaps even worse since JaRon Rush was the guy who really got paid by Piggie. The question is, since Rush didn't waiver on his commitment until after Piggie was fired by Grant, how much of what went down was controlled by Piggie?

[gvtucker]

I thought that scholarships pretty much HAVE to be renewed every year unless there is sufficient cause to dismiss a player from the team. This prevents schools from simply cutting players for younger/better ones whenver they are available. This in effect guarantees 4-year scholarships, so long as the player abides by the rules.

Someone, please correct me if I'm off-base on this.

You're off base here.

There is nothing at all to prevent schools from simply cutting players for younger/better ones when they are available. No conditions are necessary. In fact, at many places the only thing that needs to happen is that the coach to makes a decision not to renew a player's scholarship. It happens ALL the time, particularly when there's a change of coaches at a program. Thankfully, it doesn't happen at Duke.

[gvtucker]

You make a good point. For discussion purposes....if the NBA stuck with an eligibility threshold of at least one year after high school, but permitted guys to go to college or the D-league, would that really work?

Wouldn't an OJ Mayo still perhaps choose USC or whatever to gain greater exposure and a chance to play in the big stage NCAA tournament?

And that is offset by the dollars that Mayo could make elsewhere. Even for a player with no qualms at all about taking money, there's a limit to how much you get under the table. At a eruo league team a player can make 6 figures if he's good enough to be thinking about being one and done in college. With the D-league, I bet a guy like Mayo could warrant a 6 or 7 figures salary, easy.

[roywhite]

And that is offset by the dollars that Mayo could make elsewhere. Even for a player with no qualms at all about taking money, there's a limit to how much you get under the table. At a eruo league team a player can make 6 figures if he's good enough to be thinking about being one and done in college. With the D-league, I bet a guy like Mayo could warrant a 6 or 7 figures salary, easy.

I'm not clear about how you see the economics of the D-league working. Would the league itself through gate receipts, TV, radio, internet, etc. be able to generate large salaries for the better players? Or would a Mayo be signing a long-term contract with a parent NBA team that would guarantee him the money?

Minor league baseball franchises are often fairly small economic players, with limited staff and limited expenses due to a small revenue base. Now those franchises certainly may have some players who got a substantial signing bonus from the major league team.

D-league makes sense in a lot of ways, and is a more honest alternative for an 18 or 19 year old who is talented in basketball but not interested in attending college. But I'm skeptical of their economic power; I much prefer to follow Duke and other ACC teams, and would have no great interest in the RTP Inter-Nets of some future Developmental League.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I did not like the 1 and Done from the beginning and hate it now.

The real problem is that the NCAA seems to have to let the NBA dictate the rules. I do not know the solution to that.

DeMar DeRozan is USC top's recruit. He may try to go elsewhere. Here is a quote from his father in today's La Times:

"If they can't make the tournament next year, that's what we're going to college for," Jermaine DeRozan said. "If you do your one year, you at least have to shine and get to the tournament with the intentions of winning it or get to the Elite Eight."

Recruiting this 1 and done players puts you on a treadmill that you never get off. Every year USC needs to bring in a star to replace the one who left.

SoCal

[Shammrog]

I did not like the 1 and Done from the beginning and hate it now.

The real problem is that the NCAA seems to have to let the NBA dictate the rules. I do not know the solution to that.

DeMar DeRozan is USC top's recruit. He may try to go elsewhere. Here is a quote from his father in today's La Times:

"If they can't make the tournament next year, that's what we're going to college for," Jermaine DeRozan said. "If you do your one year, you at least have to shine and get to the tournament with the intentions of winning it or get to the Elite Eight."

Recruiting this 1 and done players puts you on a treadmill that you never get off. Every year USC needs to bring in a star to replace the one who left.

SoCal

The NBA cracks me up. (Sorry Jumbo.) But, as Jumbo astutely points out, the NBA acts in its self interest; no more, no less, and certainly not for the benefit of college basketball.

The NBA successfully sold the one and done as a "compromise" solution to the college/NBA early departure conundrum. All it really does is give the NBA a chance to look at kids for a year before buying - given the relatively limited coverage and scouting of prospects, along with the widely disparate caliber of opposition, in high school.

Not to mention the 3-year rookie pay scale. Sold as a way to limit the appeal of big bucks to kids who might want to end early - all it really did was make kids want to leave even earlier and get it out of the way.

[willywoody]

excuse me if this has been discussed earlier in the thread but it's gotten kind of long.


does USC have legal recourse against Mayo for defrauding the school if it is found he took money from these people against NCAA rules and thereby causes sanctions against the school? i imagine it would depend on the actions of his coaches at USC, if they knew it was going on or not; but saying they didn't know, couldn't the school sue this soon to be millionare?

[Newton_14]

excuse me if this has been discussed earlier in the thread but it's gotten kind of long.


does USC have legal recourse against Mayo for defrauding the school if it is found he took money from these people against NCAA rules and thereby causes sanctions against the school? i imagine it would depend on the actions of his coaches at USC, if they knew it was going on or not; but saying they didn't know, couldn't the school sue this soon to be millionare?

First off, I will state that I hate it when current players/coaches pay the price for violations committed by previous players/coaches that are no longer around. (example being what Amaker and his teams at Michigan dealt with because of the Fab 5)

That being said, USC has no leg to stand on here. Given all that has come out about Reggie Bush, when Mayo called Tim Floyd, to say "Hey coach, I know we have never met, you are not recruiting me, and this comes as a surprise to you, but I am coming to play for you next year and I will be your starting point guard", that should have been flag number 1.

Flag number 2 should have been when Mayo walks into Floyd's office and introduces his main man Rodney and lets Floyd know that Rodney will attend all practices, games, etc etc. and flag number 3 should have been when Mayo ( who is in no way wealthy at the time), is wearing all the latest designer clothes, flying to NBA games, and is sporting a Flat Screen in his dorm room...

Floyd and USC should have seen this coming and I am sorry but they need to go on probation and pay the price...

[JasonEvans]

excuse me if this has been discussed earlier in the thread but it's gotten kind of long.


does USC have legal recourse against Mayo for defrauding the school if it is found he took money from these people against NCAA rules and thereby causes sanctions against the school? i imagine it would depend on the actions of his coaches at USC, if they knew it was going on or not; but saying they didn't know, couldn't the school sue this soon to be millionare?

The notion that USC would sue a former player, a star player that every kid in high school looks up to, is ludicrous. It would be a real death blow to USC recruiting.

Tim Floyd made his bed, now he has to sleep in it. Taking one-and-done kids is very dangerous for a number of reasons.

--Jason "has DeRozan signed his LOI? If USC does not go on probation, getting out of it may be a problem" Evans

[sandinmyshoes]

Now there are rumors all over the place about a Kansas player. This could turn out to be a bad week for college basketball.:(

[SoCalDukeFan]

Of course.

But then again USC and Mayo are innocent until proven guilty.

Evidently the NCAA and the Pac 10 looked into Mayo's situation and found nothing amiss, so USC let him play. It would seem like USC should have done their own investigation or at least monitored the situation more closely than apparently they did.

Even if Mayo is innocent, this episode shows how messy college basketball recruiting can be these days.

SoCal

[BD80]

does USC have legal recourse against Mayo for defrauding the school if it is found he took money from these people against NCAA rules and thereby causes sanctions against the school? i imagine it would depend on the actions of his coaches at USC, if they knew it was going on or not; but saying they didn't know, couldn't the school sue this soon to be millionare?

USC's General Counsel should be tortured, shot, set afire, and ridiculed if he ever suggested such a lawsuit. What damage would USC claim? Mayo brought in much more money than USC will ever spend defending these allegations or in lost scholarships. Mayo would also allege that USC knew he was on the take - that would make for great sound bites for years.

Better yet, lets say USC sues for some injury to its reputation. That hasn't worked out well for Roger Clemens has it? I'd bet Mayo and BDA could afford a pretty good lawyer in the LA area that might know a trick or two in this area of the law - maybe even a UCLA grad. Once reputation is at issue, the defendant gets to show ANY evidence that the reputation was already diminished. Might USC have some skeletons in the closet it might not want publicized?

Good God that would be a fun case to track!

[BD80]

OJ Mayo denies everything

...

Evidently the NCAA and the Pac 10 looked into Mayo's situation and found nothing amiss, so USC let him play. It would seem like USC should have done their own investigation or at least monitored the situation more closely than apparently they did.

Even if Mayo is innocent, this episode shows how messy college basketball recruiting can be these days.


No, Mayo denies he did anything illegal (I guess he filed an extension on his 2007 taxes).

Read his denials and BDA's denials carefully. They are being written carefully.

The NCAA has limited power to investigate such matters. Mayo can say he never received cash from BDA or Guillory, because it was funneled through Mayo's friends. How would the NCAA know who to ask, and how to prevent them from lying? The NCAA also did not have a roadmap of how Guillory was spending on Mayo (which credit cards). This was never Guillory's money, so he wasn't buying Mayo the clothes. The past investigation will be nothing compared the the forthcoming investigation, now they know who to ask and what to look for. Still, the NCAA cannot compel answers, so it will still be limited in its effectiveness.

[dukeimac]

The only way USC would even consider suing over the Mayo thing is if Floyd was completely innocent. Not likely, I'm sure he knew or had reason to know.

The guy on OTL had receipts, just cross reference what the receipts are for to what Mayo has / had in his possession. If Mayo even has a small clue those items better not be around. But just get a witness who says he had them and he is fried.

They tried to cover their tracks by giving the gifts / money to Mayo's friends to cover their tracks. Just like the tax laws, write a tax law and I can find an accountant who can figure a way around it.

Everything being said better be very correct. Mayo more than likely never took the cash or gift from the guy but if he had a friend take it and then deliver it to him, he is just as guilty.

And your right, remember the Duke Lax case, don't jump to conclusions. It does sound like there is ample evidence but until the NCAA penalizes them we don't know if it really happened this way. Maybe the guy on OTL just felt so burned he is making things up.

I just want to know who burned this guy and how such that he would come forward with this information. Do they still call him a friend?

[willywoody]

thanks for the opinions on the possibility of a lawsuit against mayo. i hadn't thought of the repercussions it might have for recruiting. maybe the school should sue floyd.

[hc5duke]

You're off base here.

There is nothing at all to prevent schools from simply cutting players for younger/better ones when they are available. No conditions are necessary. In fact, at many places the only thing that needs to happen is that the coach to makes a decision not to renew a player's scholarship. It happens ALL the time, particularly when there's a change of coaches at a program. Thankfully, it doesn't happen at Duke.

Most recent/prominent case of that happening that I recall is Ray Ray McElrathbey (http://clemsontigers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mcelrathbey_rayray00.html), and a lot of people were pissed at Bowden (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/phil_taylor/03/12/mcelrathbey.clemson/index.html) for it.

[Edouble]

Taking one-and-done kids is very dangerous for a number of reasons.

Not really. Lots of one-and-done guys come to school every year and do no damage to the school they attend. I think it's unfair to generalize about a bunch of kids based on one bad apple.

[JasonEvans]

Most recent/prominent case of that happening that I recall is Ray Ray McElrathbey (http://clemsontigers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mcelrathbey_rayray00.html), and a lot of people were pissed at Bowden (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/phil_taylor/03/12/mcelrathbey.clemson/index.html) for it.

Duke should bring that kid in. Yes, I am serious.

--Jason "Tommy Bowden is scum for doing this-- and he is an idiot too, the negative PR is huge" Evans

[El_Diablo]

Not really. Lots of one-and-done guys come to school every year and do no damage to the school they attend. I think it's unfair to generalize about a bunch of kids based on one bad apple.

And I think it's naive to think that there is only one bad apple out there. Not doing something is not the same as not getting caught doing something. But you have a point...there are probably a lot of one-and-dones who never broke any rules.

Regardless, it's hard to argue that there is SOME danger involved in taking someone into your program who has no plans on sticking around after a year, especially if there are no real repercussions for the athlete if he bends (or breaks) the rules. You can mitigate the risks, but the danger is still there.

[gotham devil]

Way I hear it, that 30G figure O.J. ("I want my") Mayo reputedly pocketed from agent Billy Duffy's "people" is absurdly low. You mean USC boosters weren't obligated to kick into the pot?

Meanwhile, a couple other projected elite lottery kids coming out supposedly got a ton more. One supposedly gloomed 300G; 150G to him, 150G to high school coach. Another allegedly got hooked up for 250G.

Anyway, the point is, why would an egocentric like Mayo allow himself to get so much less than other marquee players?
Peter Vescey in today's NY Post

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05182008/sports/knicks/steph_ing_in_it_111427.htm?page=2

[hc5duke]

Mayo has been dropped by BDA (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;_ylt=Anj8tgf63f5.2PKS310G9vbevbYF?slug=ap-usc-mayo&prov=ap&type=lgns), whatever that means...


"Due to the overwhelming intensity of recent allegations regarding the recruitment of O.J. Mayo, we feel that our representation of him is a distraction for he and his family at this time," the statement said.

(brownie points for the first person to correct the grammatical error in the P.R. statement.)

[mgtr]

The statement should read "for him and his family."

[hc5duke]

The statement should read "for him and his family."

Ding ding ding. Also, my trolling for replies to my posts worked ;)

[ugadevil]

Duke should bring that kid in. Yes, I am serious.

--Jason "Tommy Bowden is scum for doing this-- and he is an idiot too, the negative PR is huge" Evans

Do you mean bringing Ray Ray in to work with the football team? Tommy Bowden is an idiot and the negative PR is bad. It's probably worse than having a mediocre football team that underachieves every year.

[gvtucker]

Duke should bring that kid in. Yes, I am serious.

--Jason "Tommy Bowden is scum for doing this-- and he is an idiot too, the negative PR is huge" Evans

While Clemson handled the PR poorly in this instance, I don't think that you're giving them enough credit here.

First off, Clemson offered Ray Ray an academic scholarship to complete his degree at Clemson. They committed to paying for two additional years of school, if that much time was necessary for him to graduate. Additionally, they also made a commitment to him that they would hire him as a graduate assistant in the athletic dept.

The Clemson coaches made it clear to Ray Ray that he would be a 4th or 5th string running back on the team, and the odds were pretty much zero that he would see playing time. He wanted to receive a football scholarship and play football, so he chose to leave instead.

Clemson doesn't have a history of running off players who don't succeed, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[devildeac]

Ding ding ding. Also, my trolling for replies to my posts worked ;)

You should be "trolling" for more posts of your own. You are almost at 1500 which puts you on the DBR All ACC 3rd team. Come join us. It is a very small, undistinguished group (speaking for myself;)) right now and we are looking for new teammates:D.