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devildeac
05-10-2008, 04:39 PM
:( WFU-7, Duke-3 last PM. That drops us to 9th place overall in the ACC and OUT of the tournament for now unless we take today's and Sunday's games against the Deacs. I believe we have another 1 or 2 series left but winning the next 2 games would help greatly, putting WFU a game or two behind us in the overall standings as only the top 8 teams play in the tourney.

jimsumner
05-10-2008, 06:31 PM
Wake won today 3-1, wasting a solid performance on the mound by Manno.

Duke has another ACC series, next week at Va. tech but for it to mean anything, Duke really needs to win tomorrow. Assuming the game is even played. Weather forecast pretty grim.

Bad time for the bats to go silent.

Inonehand
05-10-2008, 11:16 PM
Losing three to BC and now at least two to Wake is the difference in potentially going to the NCAA tournament and not even making the ACC tournament. You are there as a team/program when you win most of the games you're supposed to and some of the ones your not. We were supposed to win those two series.

Inonehand
05-12-2008, 05:51 PM
But, somebody tell me if I'm looking at this incorrectly: If Duke sweeps VaTech this weekend, we get into the ACC tournament over Clemson and the difference being we have one less loss than they do AND the infamous tie game?

devildeac
05-12-2008, 06:12 PM
But, somebody tell me if I'm looking at this incorrectly: If Duke sweeps VaTech this weekend, we get into the ACC tournament over Clemson and the difference being we have one less loss than they do AND the infamous tie game?

I was wondering the same thing, but I do not know if Clemson has any more ACC games to play. You are right, however, we stunk up the diamond for the series against WFU. Our 3 losses to BC, another team below us in the standings also hurt greatly as I believe Jim Sumner also pointed out.

jimsumner
05-12-2008, 06:17 PM
Yes,

If Duke sweeps VT this weekend, Duke is in. No wiggle room, however.

If this happens, the feces will hit the rotating blade big time. The Clemson folks are absolutely convinced that Duke stole a win from them by manipulating the rules.

devildeac
05-12-2008, 06:22 PM
Yes,

If Duke sweeps VT this weekend, Duke is in. No wiggle room, however.

If this happens, the feces will hit the rotating blade big time. The Clemson folks are absolutely convinced that Duke stole a win from them by manipulating the rules.

C'mon Jim, you know Duke gets all the calls anyway...;)

Inonehand
05-12-2008, 06:52 PM
C'mon Jim, you know Duke gets all the calls anyway...;)

As we should.

devildeac
05-18-2008, 12:01 AM
5/15: Duke-4, vt-2
5/16: Duke-5, vt-8
5/17: Duke-7, vt-5

The loss on Friday eliminated them from the ACC tourney and they finish 10-18 in the ACC which is 1/2 GB the tiggers. Too bad, but as mentioned previously, 3 losses each to BC and Wake doomed them.

devilirium
05-18-2008, 12:13 AM
McNally's decision to go the gamesmanship route cost us....the baseball gods don't like that ****. Can't remember a time when a Duke coach like McNally basically said, "Ok, there's a million in one chance that one of our kids will get hit by lightning, and for some unknown reason we sent out grounds crew home, and we're not gonna compete." That's what kills me. We could've won that game. 2 runs down with a half inning to play with an aluminum bat. Instead, he wussed out.

JasonEvans
05-18-2008, 06:56 AM
McNally's decision to go the gamesmanship route cost us....the baseball gods don't like that ****. Can't remember a time when a Duke coach like McNally basically said, "Ok, there's a million in one chance that one of our kids will get hit by lightning, and for some unknown reason we sent out grounds crew home, and we're not gonna compete." That's what kills me. We could've won that game. 2 runs down with a half inning to play with an aluminum bat. Instead, he wussed out.

Explain-- for those of us who do not follow the team.

-Jason "how did we steal a game from Clemson earlier this year?" Evans

godukerocks
05-18-2008, 10:14 AM
Explain-- for those of us who do not follow the team.

-Jason "how did we steal a game from Clemson earlier this year?" Evans

The last game of a three game series was tied late in the game, 1-1 I believe?, but was not finished because of lightning, McNally's call.

devilirium
05-18-2008, 10:51 AM
Actually, it was 6-6 going into extra innings. Clemson scored twice to make it 8-6. A Duke official came out onto the field as soon as the last Clemson run scored and said, "There's been a lightning report in Chapel Hill". I guess people in Durham can't see lightning 8 miles away. The grounds crew was sent home (inexplicably) earlier that day, and Coach McNally (in his infinite wisdom) wouldn't allow his players to tarp the field. About 40 minutes later, it started to rain (but no lightning) and it made the field unplayable. McNally knew that if he didn't do anything then the tie would be preserved. McNally may have improved our record from year to year incrementally, but he's a gutless coach.

roywhite
05-18-2008, 11:05 AM
Actually, it was 6-6 going into extra innings. Clemson scored twice to make it 8-6. A Duke official came out onto the field as soon as the last Clemson run scored and said, "There's been a lightning report in Chapel Hill". I guess people in Durham can't see lightning 8 miles away. The grounds crew was sent home (inexplicably) earlier that day, and Coach McNally (in his infinite wisdom) wouldn't allow his players to tarp the field. About 40 minutes later, it started to rain (but no lightning) and it made the field unplayable. McNally knew that if he didn't do anything then the tie would be preserved. McNally may have improved our record from year to year incrementally, but he's a gutless coach.

Statements from Duke and the ACC conference office regarding the lightning game:

http://www.thetigernet.com/view/story.do?id=7273

Davis Whitfield, Assistant Commissioner of the Atlantic Coast Conference, has issued the following statement regarding Duke's baseball game against Clemson on Sunday, April 20.
"Duke followed its institutional protocol regarding severe weather during Sunday's baseball game against Clemson. After discussions with representatives from both schools, we support Duke's handling of this situation as we would support other league institutions when following their inclement weather protocol. The safety of student-athletes, coaches and staff is a top priority for all of our league institutions"

JasonEvans
05-18-2008, 02:27 PM
Actually, it was 6-6 going into extra innings. Clemson scored twice to make it 8-6. A Duke official came out onto the field as soon as the last Clemson run scored and said, "There's been a lightning report in Chapel Hill". I guess people in Durham can't see lightning 8 miles away. The grounds crew was sent home (inexplicably) earlier that day, and Coach McNally (in his infinite wisdom) wouldn't allow his players to tarp the field. About 40 minutes later, it started to rain (but no lightning) and it made the field unplayable. McNally knew that if he didn't do anything then the tie would be preserved. McNally may have improved our record from year to year incrementally, but he's a gutless coach.

Wow-- I can understand Clemson feeling jobbed. That's pretty low.

--Jason

bill brill
05-18-2008, 03:27 PM
not just rain, lightning. it flashed over the stadium just as the game was called. they use aluminum bats. anybody who thinks mcnally was gutless is 100 percent wrong. he didn't take any chances with the lives of his and clemson's players. finishing the game was irrelevant. the ground crew had been sent home because duke doesn't have enough of them or pay them to stick around. for the record, in his third year, mcnally's team finished 37-18-1, won 10 games in the ACC for the first time since 2000, went 27-0 against non-acc opponents for first time in school history. with the worst facility in the league -- read the strategic report -- he's done a remarkable job. and, for all u lightning fans, he followed the ACC rules to the letter.

devilirium
05-18-2008, 04:06 PM
yeah, we'll agree to disagree. I live right near East Campus and the lightning was never present. The rain came close to an hour later. He knew the gig.

I'll commend him for going undefeated, but that non conference wasn't exactly a murderer's row...hell, NC Central just started playing baseball again. Iona, Davidson, Campbell, etc. Man those are some heavyweights right there.

godukerocks
05-18-2008, 04:22 PM
I'll commend him for going undefeated, but that non conference wasn't exactly a murderer's row...hell, NC Central just started playing baseball again. Iona, Davidson, Campbell, etc. Man those are some heavyweights right there.


Still. It's 27-0.

burnspbesq
05-18-2008, 04:27 PM
yeah, we'll agree to disagree. I live right near East Campus and the lightning was never present. The rain came close to an hour later. He knew the gig.

I'll commend him for going undefeated, but that non conference wasn't exactly a murderer's row...hell, NC Central just started playing baseball again. Iona, Davidson, Campbell, etc. Man those are some heavyweights right there.

Non-conference schedules are primarily a function of geography. If you are, for example, Cal State Fullerton, you can play a killer non-conference schedule if you choose to do so, because USC, UCLA, Pepperdine, Stanford, Cal, USD, San Diego State, Arizona, and Arizona State are all within easy travel distance (so, for that matter, are Loyola Marymount and UNLV). If you're Duke, the only good non-ACC team within easy travel distance is Coastal Carolina. In order for Duke to beef up its non-conference schedule, it's going to have to go on the road in February to play weekend series at SEC schools. Where's the revenue to cover those costs?

The program is pretty clearly moving in the right direction. The ACC is one of the four toughest conferences in college baseball. Gotta crawl before you can walk. Next year, making the ACC tournament will be the goal.

hughgs
05-18-2008, 06:49 PM
yeah, we'll agree to disagree. I live right near East Campus and the lightning was never present. The rain came close to an hour later. He knew the gig.

I'll commend him for going undefeated, but that non conference wasn't exactly a murderer's row...hell, NC Central just started playing baseball again. Iona, Davidson, Campbell, etc. Man those are some heavyweights right there.

You cannot extrapolate the weather near East Campus to the weather on West Campus. If you've lived here long enough you would know that the weather can be pretty variable in venues even one mile apart.

As for the teams ability to defeat non-conference opponents, I think you need to look at who they used to lose to before McNally. It was my perception that Duke used to lose to those same teams.

devilirium
05-18-2008, 07:59 PM
You can certainly make a case for rain (I've gone through the walls of rain that hit your car on the Durham Freeway that come out of nowhere :o)), but I was outside during that time and you can view the "offing" nearly all the way to Raleigh or Hillsborough with regard to lightning. I've been here nearly 5 years, and that's been a pretty sound theory. Unless you have something that really obstructs your view, then I don't think that you have an argument with regard to lightning.

I'll agree with you about the pre McNally lack of success. I'm just stating that let's not get crazy. UNC Greensboro/Richmond are usually pretty solid and we beat them, but there weren't a host of tough games in that OOC schedule.

hughgs
05-18-2008, 08:39 PM
You can certainly make a case for rain (I've gone through the walls of rain that hit your car on the Durham Freeway that come out of nowhere :o)), but I was outside during that time and you can view the "offing" nearly all the way to Raleigh or Hillsborough with regard to lightning. I've been here nearly 5 years, and that's been a pretty sound theory. Unless you have something that really obstructs your view, then I don't think that you have an argument with regard to lightning.

I'll agree with you about the pre McNally lack of success. I'm just stating that let's not get crazy. UNC Greensboro/Richmond are usually pretty solid and we beat them, but there weren't a host of tough games in that OOC schedule.

Since you admit that the weather can be pretty localized then I'll take that to mean that you accept the fact that there could have been lightning on West Campus without lightning on East. And since you didn't see lightning on West, then I think you need to acquiesce those who claimed there was lightning.

And while I agree that we should temper our enthusiasm with respect to McNally, I also think you need to give him some credit for how he's changed the direction of Duke baseball. Regardless of how strong the OOC schedule was this season you can't say that it isn't improving unless you can show that the OOC schedule was much weaker than previous years. Maybe this year was an anomaly (and by extension so was last year) but you haven't shown that.

gvtucker
05-18-2008, 10:03 PM
Non-conference schedules are primarily a function of geography. If you are, for example, Cal State Fullerton, you can play a killer non-conference schedule if you choose to do so, because USC, UCLA, Pepperdine, Stanford, Cal, USD, San Diego State, Arizona, and Arizona State are all within easy travel distance (so, for that matter, are Loyola Marymount and UNLV). If you're Duke, the only good non-ACC team within easy travel distance is Coastal Carolina. In order for Duke to beef up its non-conference schedule, it's going to have to go on the road in February to play weekend series at SEC schools. Where's the revenue to cover those costs?

It is not that difficult a drive to go to South Carolina or Georgia. And East Carolina is also a solid program and easy driving distance.

I'm happy that this season has showed some progress, to be sure, but it wouldn't cost that much money to present our team with at least some sort of non conference challenge.

roywhite
05-18-2008, 11:30 PM
It is not that difficult a drive to go to South Carolina or Georgia. And East Carolina is also a solid program and easy driving distance.

I'm happy that this season has showed some progress, to be sure, but it wouldn't cost that much money to present our team with at least some sort of non conference challenge.

UNC-Wilmington and Charlotte are also good programs that are nearby and might add to our non-conference scheduling.

dkbaseball
05-19-2008, 08:40 AM
Yes, there are plenty of solid non-conference baseball programs within an easy drive of Duke. Back in the day, when far less funding was available, we played them, as well as making a Florida trip during spring break. This year's non-conference schedule was a joke, put together strictly for the purpose of accumulating W's to offset all the expected conference L's. Three years into the McNally regime it's time for that approach to change. You don't develop good habits of concentration and competiveness playing 27 laughers in a season.

Inonehand
05-19-2008, 10:45 AM
The rain came during the lightning delay and it continued to rain. If Clemson was pissed it is simply because they had a subpar year and were at risk of losing out on the conference tourney because they stunk it up AND lost to a Duke team that they were ranked way higher than at the beginning of the year. The gamesmanship was Clemson's by trying to steal a win by protest of a game that was handled appropriately.

As for the schedule, it should be toughened up but I don't blame McNally for the softness this year. The team is getting better and better. Don't discount the fact that even marginal teams tend to have a good pitcher or two on their staffs and WILL throw them against Duke, providing a pretty decent midweek test. Signs are that Duke will have an established lineup next season and I hope to see some better regional competition. However, even though the budget is better these days than when dkbaseball and myself played, expenses are way higher. We used to play two conference series of two games each on road trips (like Clemson and GT or Maryland and Virginia). Now they are 3-game series each weekend. And, we never had to make a plane flight trip to BC or Miami either. The conference expansion created a large budget jump.

jimsumner
05-19-2008, 11:42 AM
I was at the game in question. It started raining at Coombs Field 28 minutes after play was suspended, it rained very, very hard, and lightning was abundant and very close by.

It should be noted that once play is begun, the home plate umpire controls whether a game is suspended and whether and when it is resumed with the proviso that any lightning delay is an automatic 30 minutes.

I've yet to have anyone explain to me why it would have been safe for the players to be on the field putting on the tarp in conditions where it had been deemed unsafe to be on the field playing.

devilish
05-19-2008, 12:07 PM
You can certainly make a case for rain (I've gone through the walls of rain that hit your car on the Durham Freeway that come out of nowhere :o)), but I was outside during that time and you can view the "offing" nearly all the way to Raleigh or Hillsborough with regard to lightning. I've been here nearly 5 years, and that's been a pretty sound theory. Unless you have something that really obstructs your view, then I don't think that you have an argument with regard to lightning.

Living in the Triangle for 5 years does not make you Greg Fishel. I'll take Bill Brill word and Jim Sumner's first hand account over someone who was accross campus.

Inonehand
05-19-2008, 04:28 PM
I was at the game in question. It started raining at Coombs Field 28 minutes after play was suspended, it rained very, very hard, and lightning was abundant and very close by.

It should be noted that once play is begun, the home plate umpire controls whether a game is suspended and whether and when it is resumed with the proviso that any lightning delay is an automatic 30 minutes.

I've yet to have anyone explain to me why it would have been safe for the players to be on the field putting on the tarp in conditions where it had been deemed unsafe to be on the field playing.

What he said...

devilirium
05-19-2008, 09:13 PM
Living in the Triangle for 5 years does not make you Greg Fishel. I'll take Bill Brill word and Jim Sumner's first hand account over someone who was across campus.



Difference of opinion. Moot point as it turned out. I've actually lived in the Triangle for 11 years, but I didn't make that clear, so whatever. We had to sweep VT and it didn't happen. It was a valiant effort. Duke may want to invest in paying a ground crew. I see Jim from time to time with Watzone so I'll get the full scoop. Greg Fishel does a solid job, by the way, but even he has been wrong on occasion. I vividly remember him doing a forecast under a fountain one February after one of our typical snowless winters.