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View Full Version : when, and how are duke individual numbers assigned/requested



moonpie23
05-07-2008, 09:41 AM
my son is obsessed with player's numbers. he follows his favorite players (and even some foes) throughout the nba according to numbers.

now he's asking what number cyz will be wearing. is anyone privy to this process?


i am sure he'll be wearing an "awesome" number ;)

markbdevil
05-07-2008, 10:14 AM
Many players choose the same number they wore in high school. I think Olek wore #45 and that number was not worn last year. I think Danny Meagher was the last to wear 45.
Eliott Williams wore #25 which is retired (Art Heyman), so it will be interesting to see what number he chooses. Plumlee wore #13 in HS.

mr. synellinden
05-07-2008, 11:39 AM
Many players choose the same number they wore in high school. I think Olek wore #45 and that number was not worn last year. I think Danny Meagher was the last to wear 45.
Eliott Williams wore #25 which is retired (Art Heyman), so it will be interesting to see what number he chooses. Plumlee wore #13 in HS.

well, 2 and 5 are taken. how about 20 for Ewill, taking king's #?

there really aren't a lot of choices.

Johnboy
05-07-2008, 04:18 PM
Many players choose the same number they wore in high school. I think Olek wore #45 and that number was not worn last year. I think Danny Meagher was the last to wear 45.

Clay Buckley - #45 - 1988-1991 (http://www.sportsstats.com/duke/player/players/cbuckley.html)

Meagher was class of Johnboy ('85)

wilko
05-07-2008, 04:27 PM
Danny is one of my personal all time Faves at Duke..

I hope that Oleks game resembles Dannys aggression and Kyles talent.
I also hope that Miles turns out to be a 7ft Jon Scheyer.

Duke09
05-07-2008, 05:59 PM
Someone has to retire 21 someday. Trajan, Duhon, and D Marc have all come close while wearing it, but no cigar. Who is going to put it out of its misery?

geraldsneighbor
05-07-2008, 08:15 PM
If you can only wear 1-5, 10-15, 20-24, 30-35, 40-45, and 50-55...in theory we will have to start unretiring numbers.

Bluedog
05-07-2008, 08:44 PM
If you can only wear 1-5, 10-15, 20-24, 30-35, 40-45, and 50-55...in theory we will have to start unretiring numbers.

Yeah, so what's available? Hmmm, these are retired: 4, 10, 11, 22, 23, 24, 25, 31, 32, 33, 35, 43, 44. And 2, 3, 5, 12, 14, 15, 30, 41, 42, 51, and 55 are taken for next season. So, the only numbers available are 1, 13, 20, 21, 34, 40, 45, 50, 53, and 54....Right? Slim pickings.

tommy
05-08-2008, 02:36 AM
If you can only wear 1-5, 10-15, 20-24, 30-35, 40-45, and 50-55...in theory we will have to start unretiring numbers.

Why, really, are those the only #s that can be worn? I know the justification given is so that the refs can signal each digit with a single hand when indicating to the scorers table who a foul is on, but come on, there's no problem in the NBA with guys wearing digits between 6 and 9. The refs can make themselves understood. It's not that hard. Allowing all those other digits would of course open up lots of new jersey numbers and make it more interesting and fun than having the same #s recycled year after year.

brevity
05-08-2008, 03:19 AM
Allowing all those other digits would of course open up lots of new jersey numbers and make it more interesting and fun than having the same #s recycled year after year.

Ah, but new players would lose any sense of tradition that comes with wearing that jersey. Duke09 mentioned the number 21, worn by DeMarcus Nelson, Chris Duhon, and Trajan Langdon. But it's also been worn by other players including:

Antonio Lang
Robert Brickey
Jay Bilas
Bob Bender
Dick DeVenzio

Sure, an incoming freshman may not know much about the predecessors who shared his number, but you better believe he'll learn more about them during his tenure at Duke.

BamaBlueDevil
05-08-2008, 09:31 AM
0 and 00 have also been worn by NCAA players. I would think 01, 02, 03, 04 and 05 are technically possible as well, though I've never seen those.

Edouble
05-08-2008, 10:28 AM
Someone has to retire 21 someday. Trajan, Duhon, and D Marc have all come close while wearing it, but no cigar. Who is going to put it out of its misery?

Maybe Trajan might have been close, but the other two were pretty far from having their jersey retired.

Acymetric
05-08-2008, 10:49 AM
Maybe Trajan might have been close, but the other two were pretty far from having their jersey retired.

You don't give Duhon enough credit. I wouldn't say his jersey belongs in the rafters, but he certainly wasn't "pretty far off" from it. He was a great point guard, and got a lot of steals too.

msdukie
05-08-2008, 11:23 AM
0, 00, and 1 are legal numbers (01, 02, 03, 04, 05 are not) and you can only have 00 or 0, not both, on a team.

However, K won't let anyone wear those numbers.

Duke09
05-08-2008, 12:08 PM
Ah, but new players would lose any sense of tradition that comes with wearing that jersey. Duke09 mentioned the number 21, worn by DeMarcus Nelson, Chris Duhon, and Trajan Langdon. But it's also been worn by other players including:

Antonio Lang
Robert Brickey
Jay Bilas
Bob Bender
Dick DeVenzio

Sure, an incoming freshman may not know much about the predecessors who shared his number, but you better believe he'll learn more about them during his tenure at Duke.

Thanks for the history lesson. I didn't realize that the number 21 had that much history. Some really good players have worn 21, maybe Elliot will put it in the rafters.

Bluedog
05-08-2008, 12:16 PM
You don't give Duhon enough credit. I wouldn't say his jersey belongs in the rafters, but he certainly wasn't "pretty far off" from it. He was a great point guard, and got a lot of steals too.

The Chronicle had two writers make arguments for and against retiring Duhon's jersey back in 2004. The argument is that Duhon is second on the Duke career assists list (behind Hurley), tops on the steals chart, and second all-time in minutes (behind Hurley again). Also, won a championship in 2001 and led team to Final Four in 2004. I personally don't think his jersey should be retired, and I don't think it was that close, but those are the arguments.

See Duhon's Jersey should be retired (http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2004/04/03/UndefinedSection/Commentary.Duhons.Jersey.Should.Be.Retired-1465407.shtml) and Duhon's Jersey should not be retired (http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2004/04/03/UndefinedSection/Commentary.Duhons.Jersey.Should.Not.Be.Retired-1469297.shtml)

GopherBlue
05-08-2008, 12:55 PM
I know the justification given is so that the refs can signal each digit with a single hand when indicating to the scorers table who a foul is on ....

NCAA may have to start a breeding program for 6-fingered refs (reportedly several SEC programs have a head start on this). That would add 13 additional one-handed jersey number combinations - providing for another 50 years or so of retired basketball jersey numbers. This would buy us time for the NCAA R&D department to develop 7-fingered refs.

Of course, adding fingers is not sustainable indefinitely - think of the hardships it would impose on the glove industry and the UNC mathematics department. While male refs might facilitate use of an additional binary digit (though that is not without its challenges), at some point we will have to transition to an alphanumerics, barcoding/RFID technologies, or even develop a 3-armed ref. Or a simpler solution might be for refs with dextrous toes to wear flip-flops.

hurleyfor3
05-08-2008, 01:01 PM
The Chronicle had two writers make arguments for and against retiring Duhon's jersey back in 2004. The argument is that Duhon is second on the Duke career assists list (behind Hurley), tops on the steals chart, and second all-time in minutes (behind Hurley again). Also, won a championship in 2001 and led team to Final Four in 2004. I personally don't think his jersey should be retired, and I don't think it was that close, but those are the arguments.



So the criterion is Being Not Quite Bobby Hurley? Isn't that, like, every point guard we're had since 1993? [ducking]


I think we should always have a 21 on our team. I used to think this about 23, too, before Shelden had to be good enough to get it retired.

Bluedawg
05-08-2008, 03:02 PM
my son is obsessed with player's numbers. he follows his favorite players (and even some foes) throughout the nba according to numbers.

now he's asking what number cyz will be wearing. is anyone privy to this process?

i am sure he'll be wearing an "awesome" number ;)

Like it has been said, usually players choose their numbers. I asked Vince Oghobaase how in the world he got a quarterback’s number [he wears #3]. He laughed and said he just asked for it.

Blueequalslife23
05-08-2008, 04:15 PM
I hope E-Will chooses 21 so this will be in the rafters.

Williams - Williams - Williams
21 - 22 - 23-

wilko
05-08-2008, 05:00 PM
NCAA may have to start a breeding program for 6-fingered refs (reportedly several SEC programs have a head start on this). That would add 13 additional one-handed jersey number combinations - providing for another 50 years or so of retired basketball jersey numbers. This would buy us time for the NCAA R&D department to develop 7-fingered refs.

While this is a noble initiative, I hope it doesnt take priority over other efforts.

I think that a ref being able to see out of the back of his head is a top item on the agenda.

As well as the direct cerebral uplink to replays.. He could watch the game on TV in his head while he works the game....

moonpie23
05-08-2008, 05:14 PM
While this is a noble initiative, I hope it doesnt take priority over other efforts.

I think that a ref being able to see out of the back of his head is a top item on the agenda.

As well as the direct cerebral uplink to replays.. He could watch the game on TV in his head while he works the game....

let's not get carried away....i don't mind the refs having the cerebral uplink to REPLAY but with that set-up....karl hess is gonna be watching re-runs of "married with children"......we don't need him to be ANY more distracted than he seems to be at a duke game...


and while we're at it.....where can WE get that implant chip for the replay? is it wireless? or are we gonna have an input (hdmi?) inserted in our head...i'm sure it will be high def.....right? and how much IS time warner gonna charge a month?


i'm excited...


oh...we will have split screen?

wilko
05-08-2008, 05:43 PM
let's not get carried away....i don't mind the refs having the cerebral uplink to REPLAY but with that set-up....karl hess is gonna be watching re-runs of "married with children"......we don't need him to be ANY more distracted than he seems to be at a duke game...

I said replay...


and while we're at it.....where can WE get that implant chip for the replay? is it wireless? or are we gonna have an input (hdmi?) inserted in our head...i'm sure it will be high def.....right? and how much IS time warner gonna charge a month?

i'm excited...

oh...we will have split screen?

Ask Apple. I think we just came up with a ruff draft of a product requirements doc for the new iBrain

Olympic Fan
05-09-2008, 11:51 AM
Ah, but new players would lose any sense of tradition that comes with wearing that jersey. Duke09 mentioned the number 21, worn by DeMarcus Nelson, Chris Duhon, and Trajan Langdon. But it's also been worn by other players including:

Antonio Lang
Robert Brickey
Jay Bilas
Bob Bender
Dick DeVenzio

Sure, an incoming freshman may not know much about the predecessors who shared his number, but you better believe he'll learn more about them during his tenure at Duke.

My first Duke basketball hero wore No. 21. Howard Hurt is hardly remembered today, but he was one of the "Birmingham Five" that carried Duke to the 1960 ACC Tournament championship -- its first ACC title.

Hurt, Doug Kistler (#34) and Carroll Youngkin (#23) were the stars of Duke's first ACC title team. Hurt later coached at Raleigh's Enloe High, from where he sent Randy Denton (#31) to Duke.

We're actually not all that close to running out of numbers. There are 36 legal numbers and we've retired 13 -- that still leaves 23 numbers to use.

Turk
05-09-2008, 12:14 PM
NCAA may have to start a breeding program for 6-fingered refs (reportedly several SEC programs have a head start on this). That would add 13 additional one-handed jersey number combinations - providing for another 50 years or so of retired basketball jersey numbers. This would buy us time for the NCAA R&D department to develop 7-fingered refs.

Of course, adding fingers is not sustainable indefinitely - think of the hardships it would impose on the glove industry and the UNC mathematics department. While male refs might facilitate use of an additional binary digit (though that is not without its challenges), at some point we will have to transition to an alphanumerics, barcoding/RFID technologies, or even develop a 3-armed ref. Or a simpler solution might be for refs with dextrous toes to wear flip-flops.

Perhaps the NCAA and high school rulesmakers don't have much confidence in their refs... Somehow it doesn't seem to matter in summer leagues, where Joe's Bar and Grill orders a dozen T-shirts with the numbers 1 thru 12 and the refs manage to figure it out...

"I noticed you have six fingers on your left hand.... Someone was looking for you."

MHTorringjan
05-09-2008, 03:49 PM
Perhaps the NCAA and high school rulesmakers don't have much confidence in their refs... Somehow it doesn't seem to matter in summer leagues, where Joe's Bar and Grill orders a dozen T-shirts with the numbers 1 thru 12 and the refs manage to figure it out...

"I noticed you have six fingers on your left hand.... Someone was looking for you."

I say just switch to having the refs signal in binary. Each finger represents a place, and then you've got all 100 numbers possible. Heck, you could get all the way up to 512 like that, which should last until approximately the year 4125 for retiring numbers.

The only issue would then be the TV coverage cutting out every time the ref signals that numbers 2, 64, or 66 committed a foul. :(

M.H.

Newton_14
05-09-2008, 11:07 PM
Regarding Duhon, he had a really good career, but he missed on key requirements.. (1st Team AA, CPOY,) and I believe you have to meet at least the 1st team AA requirement to be considered. Shelden was 1st team AA and Def POY and that got his jersey in the rafters..

Regarding numbers, I too hope EWill wears 21... that would be cool.

Edouble
05-10-2008, 01:46 AM
We're actually not all that close to running out of numbers. There are 36 legal numbers and we've retired 13 -- that still leaves 23 numbers to use.

Yeah but the ones we have left are gonna get worse and worse. Imagine a team taking the floor with the following jersey numbers:

00, 3, 14, 41, 53

How awful is that?

Olympic Fan
05-10-2008, 07:30 PM
Regarding Duhon, he had a really good career, but he missed on key requirements.. (1st Team AA, CPOY,) and I believe you have to meet at least the 1st team AA requirement to be considered. Shelden was 1st team AA and Def POY and that got his jersey in the rafters..

Regarding numbers, I too hope EWill wears 21... that would be cool.

There are no firm requirements for jersey retirements.

There is only one standard for retiring jersies -- graduation (although several jersies were retired before players graduated ... they were at least on track and close).

First-team All-America may seem like a requirement ... although Jeff Mullins made a couple of first teams (Converse, Basketball Writers), he was mostly second team (AP, UPI, NABC) and was a consensus second team A-A. Yet, his jersey number is retired while Bob Verga -- consensus first team A-A -- did not have his jersey retired.

The only three consensus first teamers who did not have their jersey retired were Verga, Chris Carrawell and Elton Brand (and Brand obviously would have been retired if he'd stayed and graduated).

Mullins is the only player to have his jersey retired who did not make first-team consensus A-A.

A number of players who made at least one recognized first-team A-A have not had their jersies honored -- Werber, Mock, Marin, Denton, Spanarkel, Langdon, Dunleavy and Duhon. Unhonored second-teamers include Koffenberger, Lewis, Banks, Boozer and D. Jones. If you want to go down to guys who made at least a recognized third-team, you'd also include Alarie, Amaker and McLeod.

My point is, there is no "requirement" for retirement ... it's entirely up to the coaches -- in this case, Coach K.

Newton_14
05-10-2008, 10:12 PM
To clarify, I was not suggesting that being a 1st team AA automatically meant the jersey got retired as I am aware of guys that achieved that honor without having the number retired. I was not 100% sure if there were official requirements or not... I just seem to recall reading or hearing that to be considered you would have to at least be 1st team AP AA... and graduating goes without saying so that is why I did not reference that part.. even if it's not an official requirement, it would be extremely difficult to never make a 1st team AA, AP or otherwise but have the jersey retired.. nevertheless I stand corrected. thanks for providing the info...