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arnie
05-05-2008, 10:29 PM
Received my personal letter from JA today telling me that he's my friend and that he was an incredible AD at Duke and that he's probably the greatest man to ever walk on earth. He also told me that he hired outstanding coaches and staff without naming Roof, Franks and Hillier.

But then my wife broke my heart and told me is a form letter to all Iron Dukes.

Inonehand
05-05-2008, 10:59 PM
You forgot to mention that he hired the volleyball (better), men's golf (too early), new baseball (better than pre-Hillier as well as Hillier), field hockey (better), rowing (1st coach), track (better), women's soccer (at least even), men's soccer (too early), wrestling (better), and, yes, men's lax (better) coaches during his tenure. Leaving out the fact that Gail Goestenkors was basically his hire as well as her successor, Coach P (too early). Were Franks and Roof bad hires. Absolutely. Did Hillier turn out to be a bad choice? Yes, but I will say this much, that man was given ZERO chance to succeed. Would he have if given a shot, I don't know but my gut says no. Again, beat the man down all you want, but the department is in MUCH better shape now than it was when he took over the reigns from Tom Butters.

msdukie
05-05-2008, 11:12 PM
How was Coach G "basically" his hire? Does JA have a time machine back to 1992?:cool:

Inonehand
05-05-2008, 11:43 PM
How was Coach G "basically" his hire? Does JA have a time machine back to 1992?:cool:

because Tom Butters didn't give a crap about women's hoops and didn't do much toward that search. And since you were in high school then and I was out of Duke but local, a big women's hoops fan, and knew Butters and Alleva at the time, you can simply take my word for it. Or not.

Duke09
05-06-2008, 02:47 AM
You forgot to mention that he hired the volleyball (better), men's golf (too early), new baseball (better than pre-Hillier as well as Hillier), field hockey (better), rowing (1st coach), track (better), women's soccer (at least even), men's soccer (too early), wrestling (better), and, yes, men's lax (better) coaches during his tenure. Leaving out the fact that Gail Goestenkors was basically his hire as well as her successor, Coach P (too early). Were Franks and Roof bad hires. Absolutely. Did Hillier turn out to be a bad choice? Yes, but I will say this much, that man was given ZERO chance to succeed. Would he have if given a shot, I don't know but my gut says no. Again, beat the man down all you want, but the department is in MUCH better shape now than it was when he took over the reigns from Tom Butters.

track coach better than buehler, who was an olympic coach several times? Yeah he was mailing it in in the 90s but still. The track coach is not very good, 0 individual points in running events at ACCs this year, indoor or out.

El_Diablo
05-06-2008, 07:41 AM
because Tom Butters didn't give a crap about women's hoops and didn't do much toward that search. And since you were in high school then and I was out of Duke but local, a big women's hoops fan, and knew Butters and Alleva at the time, you can simply take my word for it. Or not.

I don't want to be argumentative, but I'd like the background info if you've got it...perhaps without the condescending tone though.

gvtucker
05-06-2008, 09:07 AM
track coach better than buehler, who was an olympic coach several times? Yeah he was mailing it in in the 90s but still. The track coach is not very good, 0 individual points in running events at ACCs this year, indoor or out.

First of all, that is inaccurate. Duke men and women both scored points at the ACC outdoor championships. Tyler Clarke could have won the decathlon but he pulled a Dan O'Brien and no-heighted on the pole vault.

IMO, Norm Ogilvie has done a fine job as head track coach. The program is certainly in a lot better shape than it was in the latter part of Buehler's career. With no scholarships to work with, Ogilvie has crafted a bit of a niche for Duke in the distances, and we have done pretty well with that strategy. Duke's not going to compete for the top of the ACC on a regular basis without being competitive in scholarships, that is an unreasonable expectation. When you think about it, that makes our men's ACC title in 2000 really remarkable. Last year, the women came in 12th in the outdoor NCAAs, probably our best performance there in decades.

We are fortunate to have a very good track coach at Duke, given how little that Duke supports track.

arnie
05-06-2008, 09:35 AM
You forgot to mention that he hired the volleyball (better), men's golf (too early), new baseball (better than pre-Hillier as well as Hillier), field hockey (better), rowing (1st coach), track (better), women's soccer (at least even), men's soccer (too early), wrestling (better), and, yes, men's lax (better) coaches during his tenure. Leaving out the fact that Gail Goestenkors was basically his hire as well as her successor, Coach P (too early). Were Franks and Roof bad hires. Absolutely. Did Hillier turn out to be a bad choice? Yes, but I will say this much, that man was given ZERO chance to succeed. Would he have if given a shot, I don't know but my gut says no. Again, beat the man down all you want, but the department is in MUCH better shape now than it was when he took over the reigns from Tom Butters.

We will choose to disagree with each other and that's OK. Football is very important to me (more than the other sports) and that is one of the main reasons that I don't think JA served us well. I also didn't like the way the letter was written - thought it was way over the top with respect to his accomplishments.

Devil in the Blue Dress
05-06-2008, 11:24 AM
We will choose to disagree with each other and that's OK. Football is very important to me (more than the other sports) and that is one of the main reasons that I don't think JA served us well. I also didn't like the way the letter was written - thought it was way over the top with respect to his accomplishments.
I had a similar reaction to the letter when I read it. It was such a contrast to Alleva's demeanor when he was in the job. I was an administrator at his children's schools. Though I greeted him when he attended various events in which they participated, he never acknowledged my presence or greeting in any way.

K24U
05-06-2008, 11:56 AM
Joe Alleva did a good job with all sports except football and women's basketball. Unfortunately for him that's all most Duke fan's care about with the exception of the men's B-Ball team.

Duvall
05-06-2008, 12:16 PM
Joe Alleva did a good job with all sports except football and women's basketball. Unfortunately for him that's all most Duke fan's care about with the exception of the men's B-Ball team.

I think that's a charitable interpretation of his track record regarding the baseball program. To be fair, he may not have been paying much attention to that team.

diablesseblu
05-06-2008, 12:50 PM
I had a similar reaction to the letter when I read it. It was such a contrast to Alleva's demeanor when he was in the job. I was an administrator at his children's schools. Though I greeted him when he attended various events in which they participated, he never acknowledged my presence or greeting in any way.

Oh yes. Know that attitude well. His acknowledgement of me and others in my family has always been directly related to whether we were with a relative who is very powerful at Duke. I don't care personally but have been concerned for what that approach means for his job and for how well/poorly he represents the university.

It's a puzzle. Everyone is the ID office knows us. We have season tickets in three sports. But JA (whom I have met too many times to count) never "remembers" having met me or other family members. He's the only person I know at Duke who continually has that problem.

He gives the "good ol' boys" approach a bad name. I wish him well on the Bayou but he better clean up his act down there. He'll be encountering a culture where it's harder to succeed with his air of benign arrogance. My friends who have recently left NC to return to their beloved Baton Rouge say they are just waiting to watch him flame out.

They believe his hubris (as shown in this letter) will be ill received.

weezie
05-06-2008, 01:53 PM
.... his hubris (as shown in this letter) will be ill received.


Yeah, it looked like a big horn-tooting waste of paper and postage to me.
Did the money come out of the ID budget or the athletic department?
Right into the circular file with Joe's love letter.

phaedrus
05-06-2008, 01:58 PM
First of all, that is inaccurate. Duke men and women both scored points at the ACC outdoor championships. Tyler Clarke could have won the decathlon but he pulled a Dan O'Brien and no-heighted on the pole vault.

IMO, Norm Ogilvie has done a fine job as head track coach. The program is certainly in a lot better shape than it was in the latter part of Buehler's career. With no scholarships to work with, Ogilvie has crafted a bit of a niche for Duke in the distances, and we have done pretty well with that strategy. Duke's not going to compete for the top of the ACC on a regular basis without being competitive in scholarships, that is an unreasonable expectation. When you think about it, that makes our men's ACC title in 2000 really remarkable. Last year, the women came in 12th in the outdoor NCAAs, probably our best performance there in decades.

We are fortunate to have a very good track coach at Duke, given how little that Duke supports track.


He said running events. I haven't checked the results myself, but if true, it represents a sad decline from the state of the distance program just a few years ago.

The sad part is, as bright as our program's future looked in the late '90s and early 00's, since we've started (slowly) adding scholarships things have just gotten worse.

gvtucker
05-06-2008, 02:35 PM
He said running events. I haven't checked the results myself, but if true, it represents a sad decline from the state of the distance program just a few years ago.

The sad part is, as bright as our program's future looked in the late '90s and early 00's, since we've started (slowly) adding scholarships things have just gotten worse.

I know that Molly Lehman placed in the outdoor 1500m. Not sure about the guys' running events, or if there were other gals that placed. And yeah, I missed that "running" part of his post, sorry.

Still though, I'd really disagree with the thought that we're in a sad decline. Yes, this year wasn't as good as it has been, and no, we haven't won the ACC title since 2000. But I think that is a really unfair standard. (And anyway, we've got the same coach that got us there in 2000 to start with.) We have done well since that time, even had a multiple NCAA champ last year with Shannon Rowbury.

Inonehand
05-06-2008, 02:37 PM
We will choose to disagree with each other and that's OK. Football is very important to me (more than the other sports) and that is one of the main reasons that I don't think JA served us well. I also didn't like the way the letter was written - thought it was way over the top with respect to his accomplishments.

Football is very important to me as well. I am excited about this coaching staff. Someone alluded earlier (maybe in another thread) that Dorrell was his first choice and had to be slowed down. IMO, Dorrell was K's choice and Joe was ready to run with it. Glad it didn't happen.

I do agree Joe made some ridiculous moves in football prior to this. He also made a bad hire with Hillier. I also believe those hires were made when resources were not available to do what was needed to be successful in those sports. Some of that blame can go on Alleva but not all. Other hires have worked out well or very well.

As for the letter...I don't read two page letters unless they're from my grandmother and I saw no need for it. A simple goodbye from a man who served our university pretty well should have been enough. No doubt, he invited this thread by going on and on. But, he didn't write the damn thing. Some other wordy wordsmith killed the trees for this one.

Inonehand
05-06-2008, 02:42 PM
I don't want to be argumentative, but I'd like the background info if you've got it...perhaps without the condescending tone though.

Funny.

dkbaseball
05-06-2008, 03:38 PM
I think that's a charitable interpretation of his track record regarding the baseball program. To be fair, he may not have been paying much attention to that team.

Which seems kind of odd since his sons both played on it, and he was pals with Coach Hillier. Which might have been the main problem. Can't give Alleva a lot of credit for the McNally hire, if it indeed turns out ot be a good hire, as he was just one of a search committee of six, and not the leader of the committee.

Indoor66
05-06-2008, 03:47 PM
Can't give Alleva a lot of credit for the McNally hire, if it indeed turns out ot be a good hire, as he was just one of a search committee of six, and not the leader of the committee.

Can't give him much of the blame if it doesn't work out, can you?

dkbaseball
05-06-2008, 03:53 PM
Can't give him much of the blame if it doesn't work out, can you?

That's right, and sort of goes without saying, doesn't it?

Indoor66
05-06-2008, 03:58 PM
That's right, and sort of goes without saying, doesn't it?

My comment was not a shot at you. It was a general shot at the group who felt that JA was the source of all that is unsuccessful in Duke Athletics. He did not act alone in athletic administration.

sagegrouse
05-06-2008, 04:08 PM
That's right, and sort of goes without saying, doesn't it?

I have found very little on this site that "goes without saying." In fact, whatever can be said is often said several times.

sagegrouse

gvtucker
05-06-2008, 04:10 PM
My comment was not a shot at you. It was a general shot at the group who felt that JA was the source of all that is unsuccessful in Duke Athletics. He did not act alone in athletic administration.

Yeah, I am thinking the same way. There are plenty of reasons to be dissatisfied with Alleva. But I see way too many people who give him full credit for everything that has gone wrong and always have an excuse why he shouldn't get credit for things that went right. It is often "well, he wasn't resposible for hiring women's coaches" or "he wasn't the main fundraiser". He doesn't get credit for the MacNally hire, but gets blame for Hillier. He doesn't get credit for the Cutcliffe hire, but gets blame for Franks.

He's done some very good things, and made his share of mistakes, too.

weezie
05-06-2008, 05:04 PM
I have found very little on this site that "goes without saying." In fact, whatever can be said is often said several times.

sagegrouse


Ain't that the truth.

phaedrus
05-06-2008, 05:07 PM
I know that Molly Lehman placed in the outdoor 1500m. Not sure about the guys' running events, or if there were other gals that placed. And yeah, I missed that "running" part of his post, sorry.

Still though, I'd really disagree with the thought that we're in a sad decline. Yes, this year wasn't as good as it has been, and no, we haven't won the ACC title since 2000. But I think that is a really unfair standard. (And anyway, we've got the same coach that got us there in 2000 to start with.) We have done well since that time, even had a multiple NCAA champ last year with Shannon Rowbury.

I certainly don't think our women's team is in a state of decline; in fact, they have had unprecedented success since Jermyn took over.

FireOgilvie
05-06-2008, 07:30 PM
I certainly don't think our women's team is in a state of decline; in fact, they have had unprecedented success since Jermyn took over.

Exactly. Kevin Jermyn is the coach of the women's team. As soon as he took over there was immediate success. Anyone that was/is actually on the men's team knows the truth about the sad state of the team. More than half of the people recruited and coached by Ogilvie end up quitting. In fact, out of the men's recruiting class of 2008, only 2 out of 10 or so distance runners are still on the team. The class of 2009 is quite similar. I could say more, but I don't want to get into specifics on this board.

Alleva completely ignored MULTIPLE complaints from multiple people, including a possible lawsuit, and no changes have been made to the coaching staff.

Edit: I have actually never personally complained to Alleva, despite my User Name. I chose the name after I saw "firealleva."

msdukie
05-06-2008, 11:05 PM
I think that's a charitable interpretation of his track record regarding the baseball program. To be fair, he may not have been paying much attention to that team.

Duvall was being sarcastic. He is very aware of JA's ties to Duke baseball.

Anyone else notice that according to today's N&O JA is still acting at Duke's AD through June 30 and going to ACC meetings, even though he is doing work for LSU (resulting in getting Johnny a new job and Duke a new post player), has already resigned, and an interim AD has already been put in place?

devilirium
05-06-2008, 11:58 PM
Let's just try and remember, "it's not about the truth anymore" Mr Pressler....He parrotted K at every moment. His hiring of Franks (made one phone call....to submit a bid for a govt project you have to make a minimum of 3 calls !!) was so bad that the committee was formed to prevent it from happening again.

Inonehand
05-07-2008, 09:50 AM
Which seems kind of odd since his sons both played on it, and he was pals with Coach Hillier. Which might have been the main problem. Can't give Alleva a lot of credit for the McNally hire, if it indeed turns out ot be a good hire, as he was just one of a search committee of six, and not the leader of the committee.

Sean McNally has done a fantastic job thus far with his kids, on and off the field. Joe Alleva can take full credit for that hire. He had a committee, yes, but Alleva wanted Coach McNally all the way.

blazindw
05-07-2008, 10:11 AM
First of all, that is inaccurate. Duke men and women both scored points at the ACC outdoor championships. Tyler Clarke could have won the decathlon but he pulled a Dan O'Brien and no-heighted on the pole vault.

IMO, Norm Ogilvie has done a fine job as head track coach. The program is certainly in a lot better shape than it was in the latter part of Buehler's career. With no scholarships to work with, Ogilvie has crafted a bit of a niche for Duke in the distances, and we have done pretty well with that strategy. Duke's not going to compete for the top of the ACC on a regular basis without being competitive in scholarships, that is an unreasonable expectation. When you think about it, that makes our men's ACC title in 2000 really remarkable. Last year, the women came in 12th in the outdoor NCAAs, probably our best performance there in decades.

We are fortunate to have a very good track coach at Duke, given how little that Duke supports track.

Except for sprinters. When I arrived at Duke, I had a faster 100m time than anyone on the team (sub-11 seconds) and the second fastest 200 time (~23 seconds). He still wouldn't give me a run. I worked out on my own, trained hard, and tried out again the following year, where he said the same thing. Yet, after seeing the times in the 100 and 200, I know I would have been among the best sprinters on the team had he given me a chance. But he didn't, so I moved on. I can always say that paved the way for my "higher calling" (being HLM), but I will always look back and say that I could have made it onto Duke Track had the coach not been so stubborn.

Inonehand
05-07-2008, 03:13 PM
Except for sprinters. When I arrived at Duke, I had a faster 100m time than anyone on the team (sub-11 seconds) and the second fastest 200 time (~23 seconds). He still wouldn't give me a run. I worked out on my own, trained hard, and tried out again the following year, where he said the same thing. Yet, after seeing the times in the 100 and 200, I know I would have been among the best sprinters on the team had he given me a chance. But he didn't, so I moved on. I can always say that paved the way for my "higher calling" (being HLM), but I will always look back and say that I could have made it onto Duke Track had the coach not been so stubborn.

What did he say? This doesn't quite make sense in that you didn't state his reasoning to you in the first place.

formerdukeathlete
05-07-2008, 04:06 PM
Yeah, I am thinking the same way. There are plenty of reasons to be dissatisfied with Alleva. But I see way too many people who give him full credit for everything that has gone wrong and always have an excuse why he shouldn't get credit for things that went right. It is often "well, he wasn't resposible for hiring women's coaches" or "he wasn't the main fundraiser". He doesn't get credit for the MacNally hire, but gets blame for Hillier. He doesn't get credit for the Cutcliffe hire, but gets blame for Franks.

He's done some very good things, and made his share of mistakes, too.

One of the most important determinants of successs in non-rev. prorgrams is scholarship funding. If Duke offers the full allotment of scholarships, then the questions become, do we have adequate travel, recruitment budgets, and then do we pay coaches competitively.

I know we are fully-funded (offer the full NCAA allowable allotment of scholarships) in lacrosse, but are we fully-funded in track and baseball? Because, if we do not offer the full allotment, then our coaches hands are tied to some degree, and the AD cannot be accountable (fully) with regard to success or failure in the sports.

It is a big ticket, but Duke should fund (to the extent of NCAA limits) every sport in which it fields a varsity team.

Add this to the cost of fixing up or replacing Wade, and we are talking multiple millions. Why, the next AD needs to be a fundraiser.

Devil in the Blue Dress
05-07-2008, 05:13 PM
One of the most important determinants of successs in non-rev. prorgrams is scholarship funding. If Duke offers the full allotment of scholarships, then the questions become, do we have adequate travel, recruitment budgets, and then do we pay coaches competitively.

I know we are fully-funded (offer the full NCAA allowable allotment of scholarships) in lacrosse, but are we fully-funded in track and baseball? Because, if we do not offer the full allotment, then our coaches hands are tied to some degree, and the AD cannot be accountable (fully) with regard to success or failure in the sports.

It is a big ticket, but Duke should fund (to the extent of NCAA limits) every sport in which it fields a varsity team.

Add this to the cost of fixing up or replacing Wade, and we are talking multiple millions. Why, the next AD needs to be a fundraiser.

With something like 10% of Duke's undergraduates taking part in some sort of athletic team, the role, responsibilities and influence of the new AD go beyond any sort of narrow view of simply "the Athletics Department." I hope fans who follow this selection process will be moved to become contributors.

duketaylor
05-07-2008, 10:02 PM
There was also a search committee for the men's golf coach position and I'm not sure how much Joe had to with that, not too much I imagine. I'm pleased with the hire, but wish I'd of had a chance to interview, which I didn't. Perhaps (OZZIE) I have a higher calling...stay tuned.

In editing my post, I'll say this much, I knew Joe when he was in the SID dept, along with Johnny Moore. I knew Chris Kennedy (great guy, I liked Johnny as well), but Joe came across as a bit arrogant, IMO. Somewhat aloof. Just my opinion. I'd come down for games or functions and he never sought me out for (money) anything. I kinda felt unimportant to Duke athletics. Not a good feeling for someone who loves the school, participated in a sport, succeeded, and moved on. Folks can say what they will and I just did. I was uninspired by Joe, including at my coach's funeral service. That might be harsh, but upon reflection, it's how I feel. GO DUKE!!

Inonehand
05-08-2008, 07:59 AM
One of the most important determinants of successs in non-rev. prorgrams is scholarship funding. If Duke offers the full allotment of scholarships, then the questions become, do we have adequate travel, recruitment budgets, and then do we pay coaches competitively.

I know we are fully-funded (offer the full NCAA allowable allotment of scholarships) in lacrosse, but are we fully-funded in track and baseball? Because, if we do not offer the full allotment, then our coaches hands are tied to some degree, and the AD cannot be accountable (fully) with regard to success or failure in the sports.

It is a big ticket, but Duke should fund (to the extent of NCAA limits) every sport in which it fields a varsity team.

Add this to the cost of fixing up or replacing Wade, and we are talking multiple millions. Why, the next AD needs to be a fundraiser.


Baseball is fully funded with scholarships. Track is not...basically they have maybe one for the men and partially fund women's which allows enough for distance kids and some field events. Women's swimming gets a few, men's: none. Rowing is not at the max but has a good number. Fencing, wrestling and men's swimming have zero. THe rest of the sports are basically at their max.

Biscuit King
05-08-2008, 08:20 AM
Alleva can take the credit or the blame for anything at this point, and I don't care. He is gone, and I know I am not the only one that is happy to see that.

Good for him that he found a job at LSU. Bad for them, in my opinion. But no longer Duke's problem. Next play, as they like to say.

formerdukeathlete
05-08-2008, 08:44 AM
Baseball is fully funded with scholarships. Track is not...basically they have maybe one for the men and partially fund women's which allows enough for distance kids and some field events. Women's swimming gets a few, men's: none. Rowing is not at the max but has a good number. Fencing, wrestling and men's swimming have zero. THe rest of the sports are basically at their max.

Current NCAA limits for men's swimming - 9.9, wrestling 9.9, fencing 4.5, cross country/track and field - 12.6.

On the women's side - rowing is 20, and swimming is 14.

my guess is that to fully fund (in terms of scholarships) Duke would have to add about 60 scholarships.

Quite a few, however, funding these frees up other financial aid resources. For example, I would imagine your average wrestler from a small town USA is on finanical aid.

Funding also helps us snag kids otherwise destined for H,Y,P (which offer highly desirable general financial aid packages) to come to Duke to run track, for example.

http://www.campuschamps.com/rulebook/ncaa_scholarship_limits.shtml

Inonehand
05-08-2008, 10:55 AM
Current NCAA limits for men's swimming - 9.9, wrestling 9.9, fencing 4.5, cross country/track and field - 12.6.

On the women's side - rowing is 20, and swimming is 14.

my guess is that to fully fund (in terms of scholarships) Duke would have to add about 60 scholarships.

Quite a few, however, funding these frees up other financial aid resources. For example, I would imagine your average wrestler from a small town USA is on finanical aid.

Funding also helps us snag kids otherwise destined for H,Y,P (which offer highly desirable general financial aid packages) to come to Duke to run track, for example.

http://www.campuschamps.com/rulebook/ncaa_scholarship_limits.shtml

However, not only does the department need to add scholarships but it needs to have funding for the ones they already award...only about 25% of them are endowed as it is.

formerdukeathlete
05-08-2008, 11:20 AM
However, not only does the department need to add scholarships but it needs to have funding for the ones they already award...only about 25% of them are endowed as it is.

If we award 240 scholarships and 25% are endowed, then about 60 are endowed. We add another 60 and seek to endow all, then we need to raise about $240 million in scholarship endowments for 240, which can be slow going....needs to remain a priority for some time. To have all 320 supported by endowment would put us right in there with Stanford.

Inonehand
05-08-2008, 11:24 AM
If we award 240 scholarships and 25% are endowed, then about 60 are endowed. We add another 60 and seek to endow all, then we need to raise about $240 million in scholarship endowments for 240, which can be slow going....needs to remain a priority for some time. To have all 320 supported by endowment would put us right in there with Stanford.

Add to that $240 million an approximate $100 million needed for facility upgrades (bulk is football) and you've got one helluva fundraising need. AND, ever-growing operational costs including coaches' salaries. Big job. And you're right, slow-going.

gvtucker
05-08-2008, 11:37 AM
If we award 240 scholarships and 25% are endowed, then about 60 are endowed. We add another 60 and seek to endow all, then we need to raise about $240 million in scholarship endowments for 240, which can be slow going....needs to remain a priority for some time. To have all 320 supported by endowment would put us right in there with Stanford.

While I would be all for having all of our scholarships endowed in the same manner that Stanford does, that's a pretty ambitious goal.

First off, I think that we have far less than 60 scholarships endowed. We've been working on the basketball team for a while, now, and we still haven't gotten all 13 done there. In fact, I think we're only halfway there. I don't think that any other sport has ANY scholarships endowed.

Now while that doesn't sound all that good, note that Stanford is an outlier. As far as I know, no other school has done what Stanford has been able to do. And let's face it, endowing a scholarship is a REALLY big deal. It takes about a million bucks to endow a scholarship.

So yeah, endowing all our athletic scholarships is a fine goal. But let's not hold a new ADs feet to the fire on that one.

edit: OK, I was way off. We're up to 44 scholarships that have been endowed. Pretty good, actually. And the new capital campaign is looking to endow another 15. So that gets us to the 60 number, if things go well.

formerdukeathlete
05-08-2008, 01:52 PM
Add to that $240 million an approximate $100 million needed for facility upgrades (bulk is football) and you've got one helluva fundraising need. AND, ever-growing operational costs including coaches' salaries. Big job. And you're right, slow-going.

from the 40s, 50s, 60s, who remember good football and who have done well, particularly early baby boomers who have done well in real estate....

maybe the best person to make this fundraising pitch on behalf of Duke athletics as AD would be the last great qb at the end of the Duke-was-consistently-good-in-Football era - Leo Hart.

bill brill
05-08-2008, 02:21 PM
I commend to anybody the strategic plan that is on goduke.com. it is being voted upon by the trustees this weekend. it is very ambitious, not to mention being 38 pages long, but it is well worth reading. duke eventually wants to endow all scholarships, to free up iron dukes money for whatever is the need of the day. they also plan to add scholarships. if you read the whole thing -- it's much easier if u print it out -- I am sure u will see that the next AD needs to be a superior fund raiser. there was about $200 million raised while joe was AD, of which he did not raise any significant amount that I know of. but including the athletic fund raising in the next capital campaign is a big deal.

Bluedog
05-08-2008, 02:57 PM
I commend to anybody the strategic plan that is on goduke.com. it is being voted upon by the trustees this weekend. it is very ambitious, not to mention being 38 pages long, but it is well worth reading. duke eventually wants to endow all scholarships, to free up iron dukes money for whatever is the need of the day. they also plan to add scholarships. if you read the whole thing -- it's much easier if u print it out -- I am sure u will see that the next AD needs to be a superior fund raiser. there was about $200 million raised while joe was AD, of which he did not raise any significant amount that I know of. but including the athletic fund raising in the next capital campaign is a big deal.

Thanks for mentioning it, Bill. It was quite an interesting read. I appreciated the honesty and not sugar-coating the current state of the football program: "Our most obvious weakness has been the lack of success of our football program. We have not been competitive on the field; attendance has been abysmal. Moreover, our stadium is one of the least appealing in Division I."

On baseball: "Jack Coombs Field is the worst baseball facility in the ACC and far inferior to
stadiums at institutions against which we recruit academically motivated prospects: Rice,
Tulane, Stanford, Baylor, and Vanderbilt. In its current state it does not meet the
necessary NCAA criteria for hosting post season play due to limited seating capacity,
poor lighting, inadequate concessions and restrooms, and the lack of a press box. It is a
serious detriment to recruiting, player development, student-athlete experience, fan
experience, and community outreach."

Bluedog
05-08-2008, 03:20 PM
Another interesting schedule tidbit: "We need to ensure that our non-conference schedule—which we control—puts us in a position to be bowl-eligible every year. To this end, we need to play a FCS (formerly 1-AA) opponent every year, preferably early in the season. We need to avoid “money games” for the foreseeable future." I guess they weren't a fan of the ND game last year - although that ended up being a beatable opponent!

roywhite
05-08-2008, 03:27 PM
I commend to anybody the strategic plan that is on goduke.com. it is being voted upon by the trustees this weekend. it is very ambitious, not to mention being 38 pages long, but it is well worth reading. duke eventually wants to endow all scholarships, to free up iron dukes money for whatever is the need of the day. they also plan to add scholarships. if you read the whole thing -- it's much easier if u print it out -- I am sure u will see that the next AD needs to be a superior fund raiser. there was about $200 million raised while joe was AD, of which he did not raise any significant amount that I know of. but including the athletic fund raising in the next capital campaign is a big deal.

Thanks, Bill. I did read it, and found it very direct in its comments and goals. Makes sense to me, and certainly paints the challenges the incoming AD will face.

Inonehand
05-08-2008, 05:22 PM
I commend to anybody the strategic plan that is on goduke.com. it is being voted upon by the trustees this weekend. it is very ambitious, not to mention being 38 pages long, but it is well worth reading. duke eventually wants to endow all scholarships, to free up iron dukes money for whatever is the need of the day. they also plan to add scholarships. if you read the whole thing -- it's much easier if u print it out -- I am sure u will see that the next AD needs to be a superior fund raiser. there was about $200 million raised while joe was AD, of which he did not raise any significant amount that I know of. but including the athletic fund raising in the next capital campaign is a big deal.

and don't give him credit for the good comment. The AD can and should take credit for ALL fundraising done under his/her watch.

dkbaseball
05-08-2008, 09:32 PM
and don't give him credit for the good comment. The AD can and should take credit for ALL fundraising done under his/her watch.

I would just point out that inonehand speaks with great authority on this subject. I haven't been high on Alleva, simply because he's a poor speaker, and as such hasn't presented the best face for Duke athletics. But inonehand's opinion, which I know to be informed, has caused me to take a different look at JA.

jmb
05-09-2008, 11:44 AM
Except for sprinters. When I arrived at Duke, I had a faster 100m time than anyone on the team (sub-11 seconds) and the second fastest 200 time (~23 seconds). He still wouldn't give me a run. I worked out on my own, trained hard, and tried out again the following year, where he said the same thing. Yet, after seeing the times in the 100 and 200, I know I would have been among the best sprinters on the team had he given me a chance. But he didn't, so I moved on. I can always say that paved the way for my "higher calling" (being HLM), but I will always look back and say that I could have made it onto Duke Track had the coach not been so stubborn.
That's surprising to me, and I would imagine there is more to the story, because the track team has had quite a good track record with developing walk-ons of late, though the retention rate of recruited athletes is troublesome, as another poster mentioned.

bill brill
05-09-2008, 06:03 PM
I was not slamming alleva. he has done a good job of managing the department. they have hired some excellent people. he has not had the authority since the lacrosse case that a normal AD would have. all that being said, I can't imagine anybody thinks joe was a great fund raiser. the legacy fund in basketball, which accounts for about 28-30 percent of all money raised under JA's watch, has been an exclusive product of the basketball staff. the football money for yoh was almost totally produced by spike and his family and ex-football players. my point was, and is, that if the strategic plan, which I submit would make duke a top 5 athletic program (forever, maybe) will need the AD to be an active leader in fund raising. it's not being a critic to say that was never joe's strength.

Inonehand
05-09-2008, 11:06 PM
I was not slamming alleva. he has done a good job of managing the department. they have hired some excellent people. he has not had the authority since the lacrosse case that a normal AD would have. all that being said, I can't imagine anybody thinks joe was a great fund raiser. the legacy fund in basketball, which accounts for about 28-30 percent of all money raised under JA's watch, has been an exclusive product of the basketball staff. the football money for yoh was almost totally produced by spike and his family and ex-football players. my point was, and is, that if the strategic plan, which I submit would make duke a top 5 athletic program (forever, maybe) will need the AD to be an active leader in fund raising. it's not being a critic to say that was never joe's strength.

a little bit. To say that all money raised for Duke Basketball (Legacy Fund, Schwartz-Butters, K Center) has been raised by the basketball staff is just wrong. In fact, much of that money was raised by university fundraisers and by other athletics staff. Not to take anything away from the amounts raised by the basketball staff either. They've done a good job but it has always seemed to be a team effort to raise money for hoops projects. If you had said that the money was because of basketball and Coach K and their success, that would be accurate. All hands were on deck for the Yoh facility too.

I agree with you, that fundraising was not Alleva's strength. However, just like any other organization, when those under you and others affiliated make things happen, it is to the manager's credit. Can Duke find a better fundraiser for AD? Yes. Can you take the successes that Duke HAS had in fundraising and lump it solely on the basketball staff and ex-football players backs and take it away from the athletic director who oversaw it all? Not without misleading those willing to believe it.

formerdukeathlete
05-09-2008, 11:40 PM
I was not slamming alleva. he has done a good job of managing the department. they have hired some excellent people. he has not had the authority since the lacrosse case that a normal AD would have. all that being said, I can't imagine anybody thinks joe was a great fund raiser. the legacy fund in basketball, which accounts for about 28-30 percent of all money raised under JA's watch, has been an exclusive product of the basketball staff. the football money for yoh was almost totally produced by spike and his family and ex-football players. my point was, and is, that if the strategic plan, which I submit would make duke a top 5 athletic program (forever, maybe) will need the AD to be an active leader in fund raising. it's not being a critic to say that was never joe's strength.

Bill, I agree with everything you said (and almost everything inone says)... no wasted words, right on point...

Edouble
05-10-2008, 01:33 AM
Except for sprinters. When I arrived at Duke, I had a faster 100m time than anyone on the team (sub-11 seconds) and the second fastest 200 time (~23 seconds). He still wouldn't give me a run. I worked out on my own, trained hard, and tried out again the following year, where he said the same thing. Yet, after seeing the times in the 100 and 200, I know I would have been among the best sprinters on the team had he given me a chance. But he didn't, so I moved on. I can always say that paved the way for my "higher calling" (being HLM), but I will always look back and say that I could have made it onto Duke Track had the coach not been so stubborn.

Dude, you have to be a person! Cheetahs aren't allowed to compete at the NCAA level.