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JasonEvans
05-02-2008, 07:03 AM
"What drove Jack to become a pill-popping, suicidal lunatic?"

This has been one of the burning questions bugging Lost fans since last season's stunning flash-forward finale. Well, I think we now have our answer. Jack and Kate get off the island and begin to make a life together. Jack is nervous about raising baby Aaron as his own... and pretty soon he is getting cryptic warning from Hurley about it and visits from his long-dead father too. For a guy who has been prone to addiction in the past, I could certainly see this pushing him over the edge. Losing Kate to the memory of Sawyer probably helped a bit too.

I adore the way this show slowly spins its story. They give us reactions and consequences of events and then, in later episodes, they reveal what happened to move characters in that direction (like making Sayid a killer for Ben and then showing us why he chose that path). It really is wonderful storytelling and we are fortunate to be the recipients of it.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think this episode contained any major reveals that will matter in the end. We did not get more hints about what Ben is up to or the back story on his battle with Charles Whitmore. We got no more hints or info on time travel. This episode was purely for character development and filling gaps in the Jack and Kate story. Hey, I am fine with that. Here is what we learned that may matter significantly in the future--

Sawyer chose to stay on the island according to Jack. Why? Was Jack referencing Sawyer's choice of Locke's group over Jack's or was there something else? Could it be that Sawyer stays to look for the now missing Claire?
Sawyer is going to ask Kate a very personal favor. Ok. We'll find out about this one in the next 2-3 episodes I think.
For some reason the Island folks now cannot contact the freighter. Why?
The conversation between Rose and Bernard was significant -- people don't get sick on the Island... but Jack just did. The Island is trying to keep Jack around.
Ummmm, where did Clarie go? What would make her leave Aaron laying in a tree while she wanders off? I am betting ghost-talking Miles could help us find the answer. That dude is gonna be a major player in the future, I bet.
We are starting to get hints as to why these 6 folks got off the island-- Jack is sick and needs to be evac'd, Jin made a deal to get Sun off, baby Aaron needs to go because you save the baby first among everyone, Kate is there to take care of Aaron because Claire is missing, and Sayid is already off the island on the freighter. Hurley is a mystery and he is nowhere near the other folks who are going to get off, but that can be resolved reasonably quickly.


All in all, a really great episode in my mind. Wonderful acting and thoughtful storytell. I loved it.

--Jason "the next few weeks of Lost are gonna rock!!! I can sense it" Evans

Pacer
05-02-2008, 10:11 AM
When Claire was feeling "off," my fiancee noted that both of Christian's kids were the ones experiencing medical issues. And then, Christian appeared to both of them... I think it's significant, but I can't tell why.

And, not directly related to this episode... Ben spoke of the rules.. and that he couldn't kill Widmore. However, in "The Economist," when Sayid was romancing the assistant/counter agent, the prevailing thought (at least by me, and I think the larger population) was that Sayid was attempting to get to Widmore and kill him... I don't recall the dialog that led to that...

It would just seem odd that Ben couldn't kill Widmore, but it would be ok for Sayid to do so. I can't see Sayid trying to get to Penny... I think I recall the Economist being a male, and Sayid knows who Penny is relative to Desmond... I would have a hard time believing that Sayid would kill Penny in that his whole quest is driven by the rage of having his own lost and found love killed.

Also, the Ben/Widmore relationship kind of reminds me of the central issue in "Constantine." Keanu Reeves' character says "What if I told you that God and the Devil made a wager, a kind of a standing bet for the souls of mankind...no direct contact with humans, that would be the rule. Just influence. To see who would win."

There's clearly some "game" going on with Ben and Widmore, and there are rules... and Ben's MO is clearly to get people to do his bidding by pulling strings... Widmore however appears a bit more hands on up to this point.

ChrisP
05-02-2008, 10:47 AM
When Claire was feeling "off," my fiancee noted that both of Christian's kids were the ones experiencing medical issues. And then, Christian appeared to both of them... I think it's significant, but I can't tell why.

I do think you're onto something about a connection between Christian's kids, but it's not like Claire was actually "sick" like Jack was - I mean, her house got destroyed by a rocket, after all. I think she was just concussed (not that there's anything wrong with that) while Jack was definitely ailing physically. Also..I think Christian only appeared to Claire (at least in "real time" on the island). When he appeared to Jack, it was in the flash forward segments. Anyway..something is up.

On a side note...I guess that Jack is Aaron's uncle huh? I wonder if he knows that in the future - he made the comment to Kate that "you're not even related to him". Was he simply stating a fact or are we to infer that Jack knows that he is the boy's uncle?

JasonEvans
05-02-2008, 10:56 AM
On a side note...I guess that Jack is Aaron's uncle huh? I wonder if he knows that in the future - he made the comment to Kate that "you're not even related to him". Was he simply stating a fact or are we to infer that Jack knows that he is the boy's uncle?

I think it was just supposed to be an ironic wink to the audience. Jack does not know that he and Claire are related. I am fairly sure she does not even know Christian Sheppard's real name. No way they could put it together unless one of them has a tattered photo of their father that the other could see and comment upon. The odds of that would be so slim as to really piss me off if the show tried to convince us of that reality.

--Jason "do folks agree that last night was a great episode?" Evans

JasonEvans
05-02-2008, 11:05 AM
Also worth noting -- Jack was reading Alice in Wonderland to young Aaron. I thought it was a strange book to read to a child that young. Of course, there have been so many Alice in Wonderland references in Lost it is freaking absurd!

There was an episode entitled "White Rabbit" and one called "Through the Looking Glass."

Of course, there is the "Looking Glass" station where Charlie died.

The show makes much use of White Rabbits (Ben has used them several times and it is a White Rabbit that gets cloned/teleported/time travelled/whatever in the Orchid station film).

Lostpedia says (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Alice_in_Wonderland)that 42 was an important number to Alice author Lewis Carol, but I am not sure I believe that.

--Jason "I need to go back and re-listen to the passage Jack read... I bet it is at least a little bit significant... did it talk about time travel or anything like that?" Evans

jimbonelson
05-02-2008, 11:26 AM
one of the first things Jack said on last nights episode was that "i promise to get you all of this island" i wonder if that will come true?

mr. synellinden
05-02-2008, 11:32 AM
Also worth noting -- Jack was reading Alice in Wonderland to young Aaron. I thought it was a strange book to read to a child that young. Of course, there have been so many Alice in Wonderland references in Lost it is freaking absurd!

There was an episode entitled "White Rabbit" and one called "Through the Looking Glass."

Of course, there is the "Looking Glass" station where Charlie died.

The show makes much use of White Rabbits (Ben has used them several times and it is a White Rabbit that gets cloned/teleported/time travelled/whatever in the Orchid station film).

Lostpedia says (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Alice_in_Wonderland)that 42 was an important number to Alice author Lewis Carol, but I am not sure I believe that.

--Jason "I need to go back and re-listen to the passage Jack read... I bet it is at least a little bit significant... did it talk about time travel or anything like that?" Evans

It talked about waking up in the morning and being a different person than you were the night before. I think there was a line "How would I know?" I actually watched it twice because I thought it had to be significant. Lost wouldn't miss that opportunity to drop a hint or Easter egg in what Jack was reading.

I am not quite sure I understand why Jack was so upset at Kate for keeping a promise to Sawyer - unless he knows what it related to. I hope that we do find out more about that before the end of the season.

Yes, I thought it was an amazing episode, but I missed seeing Ben and Locke - I can't wait to see their journey to Jacob.

JasonEvans
05-02-2008, 12:15 PM
It talked about waking up in the morning and being a different person than you were the night before. I think there was a line "How would I know?" I actually watched it twice because I thought it had to be significant. Lost wouldn't miss that opportunity to drop a hint or Easter egg in what Jack was reading.

I am not quite sure I understand why Jack was so upset at Kate for keeping a promise to Sawyer - unless he knows what it related to. I hope that we do find out more about that before the end of the season.

Yes, I thought it was an amazing episode, but I missed seeing Ben and Locke - I can't wait to see their journey to Jacob.

Hmmm-- "How would I know?" ... uh oh, that lends some credence to Hurley thinking they are all dead already, though I hate that explanation and it makes no sense with a lot of the freaky stuff that has happened.

We saw from Jack's relationship with his first wife, Sarah, that Jack is a fiercely jealous guy. That, along with his obsession with work, drove her away.

--Jason

acdevil
05-02-2008, 12:36 PM
I think the favor for Sawyer probably has something to do with his daughter.

juise
05-02-2008, 01:05 PM
I think the favor for Sawyer probably has something to do with his daughter.

Quite possibly... and let's not forget that Kate is friends with Sawyer's baby-mama.

Exiled_Devil
05-02-2008, 02:53 PM
Hmmm-- "How would I know?" ... uh oh, that lends some credence to Hurley thinking they are all dead already, though I hate that explanation and it makes no sense with a lot of the freaky stuff that has happened.

We saw from Jack's relationship with his first wife, Sarah, that Jack is a fiercely jealous guy. That, along with his obsession with work, drove her away.

--Jason

I wouldn't worry too much about the truth of Hurley's statements - he has become the voice for inaccurate internet theories.

The dead people showing up ,IMO has something to do with the Temple - whatever that is, its how the Other's shrink sent the message to Juliette, and I think how the dead people are projecting around the island and world. Also, I think it is related to the whispers.

blublood
05-02-2008, 03:48 PM
I don't quite get some of the "Island made Jack sick so he'd stay" theories floating around the interweb tubes. If it was a sign of Jack being "off course" then yeah, that makes some sense - sort of the island's vote of displeasure. But if it was the island trying to keep him around, why would he have any incentive at all to stay there if he was in danger of dying from peritonitis? Wouldn't that give him a much stronger incentive to leave than to stay?

The only purpose that was accomplished as far as I can tell was to plant doubt in the minds of the rest of the Losties as to the wisdom of Jack's plan. That actually has some precedent in the show - recall that Juliet was terribly worried when she found Ben's tumor, far out of proportion to concern for his physical health. It wasn't just about the tumor, it was also a symbolic lifting of favor.

Also, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I really liked how the unraveling of Jack and Kate's engagement was portrayed as an almost consciously self-destructive process. Jack is making exactly the same mistakes that tanked the first marriage - working too late, allowing his suspicions to get the better of him, relying on other people's approval and respect, being the "savior" of the relationship. You sensed that he had an opportunity to make a clean start when Kate asked him to trust her and leave the argument alone, but he just wouldn't do it.

cato
05-02-2008, 05:57 PM
You sensed that he had an opportunity to make a clean start when Kate asked him to trust her and leave the argument alone, but he just wouldn't do it.

Clean start, perhaps, but to what? Kate is one of my favorite characters, but she is a lying liar who lies. Jack not trusting her is one of the few believeable things that Jack did.

JasonEvans
05-04-2008, 07:13 AM
Clean start, perhaps, but to what? Kate is one of my favorite characters, but she is a lying liar who lies. Jack not trusting her is one of the few believeable things that Jack did.

Kate may be a lying liar who lies, but Jack is supposedly in love with her -- enough in love to ask her to spend the rest of his life with her. He feels that strongly but cannot trust her? I dunno... that's an awful shaky foundation upon which to build a relationship.

I would have enjoyed the episode a lot more if Jack's descent had been slower. He seemed to be in an awful hurry to become a pill-addicted loner, ya know?

--Jason "Jack was fairly well balanced when he went to Australia to pick up his fahter's body, right?" Evans

Ignatius07
05-04-2008, 11:54 AM
I think he had a drinking problem back then, too, so I'm not sure he was "well-balanced."

As for him not trusting Kate, the episode is clearly set up in a way (initially) that the audience (and Jack) is not to trust her. He walks in on her and she says something that is mostly inaudible, and then "Jack never comes home before 8 anyway... I can probably come over for an hour." Then Kate LIES about who she was talking to (we assume from her later admission that the favor was for Sawyer and nothing to do with her friend), and when Jack confronts her at the end, she is dressed up as if she were going out.

BCGroup
05-04-2008, 12:53 PM
So, who do we think was on the phone? If it was a favor for Sawyer, and he stayed on the island (Jack said that, right?), was she talking to Sawyer and does that mean he can communicate with the rest of the world? I have no idea who she was talking to, but thought that part was very interesting.

BCGroup
05-05-2008, 05:07 PM
Here are the Top Ten Comments about the episode from viewers over at USA Today. Not quite up to their usual, but some are interesting:
"Did anyone notice that when Jack was getting out of bed he was on the other side of the bed than when he answered the phone. Also, his appendectomy scar was on the wrong side of the body as he was walking around Kate's apartment in the towel. Appendix are on your right side, not the left."

http://blogs.usatoday.com/popcandy/2008/05/lets-talk-lost.html

BCGroup
05-05-2008, 05:08 PM
That was the full thread--here are the top ten:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/popcandy/2008/05/lost-in-a-flash.html#more

"I don't think Jack had appendicitis. I think Juliet did something to him to make him think that, then wouldn't allow him to watch the surgery so she could plant some sort of tracking device or something inside him. It's like Rose said: people just don't get sick on that island."

Pacer
05-05-2008, 10:59 PM
Appendix are on your right side, not the left."


Hmm.. they were on his right side when they were cutting into him on the table...

alteran
05-06-2008, 08:40 AM
That was the full thread--here are the top ten:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/popcandy/2008/05/lost-in-a-flash.html#more

"I don't think Jack had appendicitis. I think Juliet did something to him to make him think that, then wouldn't allow him to watch the surgery so she could plant some sort of tracking device or something inside him. It's like Rose said: people just don't get sick on that island."

But Jack would still be a doctor, so he'd realize that the scar was on the wrong side.

JasonEvans
05-06-2008, 04:57 PM
But Jack would still be a doctor, so he'd realize that the scar was on the wrong side.

Maybe they never taught that to him in medical school.

Juliet planted a tracking device in Jack would be one of the worst plot twists ever!!! The writers are smarter than that.

--Jason "Juliet put Jack out because the pain was too much and he could not stay calm/hold still" Evans