Miles Plumlee to Duke

[Lord Ash]

Seems to have happened.

Here (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=8&cfg=bb&toinid=354&yr=2008)

[kramerbr]

http://scouthoops.scout.com/2/751792.html

[pfrduke]

sweet :D

[BlueintheFace]

WOW!!! This changes things in a very very good way!!! I did not expect to be this happy. Our future looks to be set down low, this is so awesome!

[dukejim1]

I have read accounts on several boards but are there any free sites reporting this?

[dukejim1]

Perky knows who the next assistant is.

[kramerbr]

Didn't I post a link from Scout??? ^^^^^^^^

[Troublemaker]

Excellent! Welcome to Duke, Miles.

This is excellent news for Duke, and for the Plumlee family (again).

[CameronCrazy'11]

I think it's great now that we have both Miles and Olek coming next year. I know neither is an all-American or anything, but both are very likely to play for four years, and there's a great chance that at least one of them will turn into a big time player. We still have no huge talent playing center or power forward, but we have a lot more depth than last year, and a few players who look ready to step up in a big way.

[Channing]

I am very excited about Miles ... but late signees tend to be pumped up unfairly. Remember, the kid is still a good (not great) recruit (same thing happened with Lance - and he was ranked much higher)

[Karl Beem]

We still have no huge talent playing center or power forward...

Does the name Kyle Singler ring a bell?:confused:

[CameronCrazy'11]

Does the name Kyle Singler ring a bell?:confused:

He played as our center a lot last season, but given his athleticism, size, and great shot he's more of a small forward (and a great one at that). What he's not is a huge guy who can dominate everyone right under the basket.

[Duvall]

He played as our center a lot last season, but given his athleticism, size, and great shot he's more of a small forward (and a great one at that).

throatybeard, I think it may be time for an addition.

[juise]

Didn't I post a link from Scout??? ^^^^^^^^

You have to be a member to read the article... the teaser just says that he committed to a powerhouse.

[Indoor66]

You have to be a member to read the article... the teaser just says that he committed to a powerhouse.


The link in the first post in this thread lists the Duke recruits and includes Miles as of 5/1/08.

[kramerbr]

You have to be a member to read the article... the teaser just says that he committed to a powerhouse.

My apologies. I have a free membership for the message boards there.

[Karl Beem]

He played as our center a lot last season, but given his athleticism, size, and great shot he's more of a small forward (and a great one at that). What he's not is a huge guy who can dominate everyone right under the basket.

He's a college 4.

[CameronCrazy'11]

He's a college 4.

exactly, he's a 4 not a 5 (call it PF, SF, or whatever you want). The point is that Olek and Miles will both bring us more depth at the 5.

[watzone]

Miles Plumlee is a Duke Blue Devil (http://myblogdevils.eponym.com/blog/_archives/2008/5/1/3670837.html)

I can see for miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles
I can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles
oh yeah!

[chrisheery]

Dawkins picks up Taylor King in what would amount to a trade? Would be an odd event, but seems possible, no?

[hc5duke]

Dawkins picks up Taylor King in what would amount to a trade? Would be an odd event, but seems possible, no?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3345570

[SilkyJ]

Dawkins picks up Taylor King in what would amount to a trade? Would be an odd event, but seems possible, no?

no. taylor is going to villanova. don't know if he could change his mind, but stanford never was on his list of schools and I think he's made up his mind.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3345570

welcome to duke, miles!

[Uncle Drew]

Seems to have happened.

Here (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=8&cfg=bb&toinid=354&yr=2008)

Well spank my potty mouth and call me Consuella! Sometimes rumors can come true. Good news again at last. If this keeps up we could have more Plumlee's having played basketball for Duke than guys with the last name Williams! Someone tell me their parents believe in HUGE families and there are ten more on the way. Sue me I'm greedy!

[TwoDukeTattoos]

OK, so he's not a five-star. But Duke is in such desperate need in the paint that even a "just quality" PF should help tremendously as part of the frontcourt rotation. With two PF's coming in next year (and Czyz developing very nicely) this could end up paying huge dividends.

[Troublemaker]

Besides being a fine student-athlete, I like that the addition of Miles adds some class balance. With two guys (Nolan, Kyle) remaining from the class of '07, adding only two guys from the class of '08 could've led to depth issues down the line, especially if Kyle or someone else leaves for the NBA soon. So adding a third commitment in '08 helps. And hopefully '09 is a 4-man class.

[godukecom]

Guys, I feel stupid for asking this, but isnt Miles Plumlee the one who just got out of his LOI to stanford?

Is there any penalty for getting out of your LOI? will he have to sit out a year?
Im sorry, i dont know the rules of recruiting very well.

Thanks in advance

[geraldsneighbor]

If he didn't already move to the main line to play for Nova.

[geraldsneighbor]

Guys, I feel stupid for asking this, but isnt Miles Plumlee the one who just got out of his LOI to stanford?

Is there any penalty for getting out of your LOI? will he have to sit out a year?
Im sorry, i dont know the rules of recruiting very well.

Thanks in advance

Nope, hes good to go opening day.

[Acymetric]

Guys, I feel stupid for asking this, but isnt Miles Plumlee the one who just got out of his LOI to stanford?

Is there any penalty for getting out of your LOI? will he have to sit out a year?
Im sorry, i dont know the rules of recruiting very well.

Thanks in advance

Nope. It'll be like he signed with us from the beginning. Starts school in August (or September? Whenever Duke starts...), plays in the 08-09 season. Whoo!

Someone beat me to it!

[dukeimac]

Welcome MILES!

I love the idea that this guy is coming to Duke. He'll play some post with Zou.

The thing to remember, Duke's offense played without a post this season. Yes Kyle guarded the post player but on offense they did not.

Just think, having Czyz guard Hans and Miles coming over to help. I think he could get a lot of blocks if he doesn't play on Hans, just helps out.

As for 5 stars and 4 stars, it doesn't matter much. Just 5 stars tend to jump to the pros quickly and 4 stars tend to last in the college game longer. I think when a guy gets 5 stars he tends to think big right away.

I think the Plumlees could be a major steel for Duke.

Now I hope all the tarholes come back next year, nothing better than to stop them short of another title!!!

I hope the Plumlees feel the love...

[Namtilal]

Dawkins picks up Taylor King in what would amount to a trade? Would be an odd event, but seems possible, no?

I love your logic. If only we could make this happen. Does the NCAA allow a bulletin board to veto a transfer?

[norduck]

Welcome MILES!

I love the idea that this guy is coming to Duke. He'll play some post with Zou.

The thing to remember, Duke's offense played without a post this season. Yes Kyle guarded the post player but on offense they did not.

Just think, having Czyz guard Hans and Miles coming over to help. I think he could get a lot of blocks if he doesn't play on Hans, just helps out.

As for 5 stars and 4 stars, it doesn't matter much. Just 5 stars tend to jump to the pros quickly and 4 stars tend to last in the college game longer. I think when a guy gets 5 stars he tends to think big right away.

I think the Plumlees could be a major steel for Duke.

Now I hope all the tarholes come back next year, nothing better than to stop them short of another title!!!

I hope the Plumlees feel the love...


Tim Duncan was a zero-star coming out of high school. You never know.

[watzone]

Plumlee's > Wear's

[BlueintheFace]

Headline Of the Future:

"Plumlee's 'Wear' Down Tarheels"

...beautiful

[roywhite]

Plumlee's > Wear's

To be fair to the Wears, they may exceed other recent TarHeel brother acts:

Pat and Ryan Sullivan
Chris and Matt Brust

By the way, I'm drawing a blank on brothers who have played for the Blue Devils...

[FireOgilvie]

By the way, I'm drawing a blank on brothers who have played for the Blue Devils...


Patrick and Jordan Davidson...

... that's all I've got.

[DevilWolf]

"By the way, I'm drawing a blank on brothers who have played for the Blue Devils..."

^ Here we go again with another post regarding the racial makeup of our team. HAHA

[watzone]

Patrick and Jordan Davidson...

... that's all I've got.

I think there may have been Carter brothers in the sixties.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

By the way, I'm drawing a blank on brothers who have played for the Blue Devils...

We've had a father/son duo (Gary and Lee Melchionni), but not at the same time of course!

[watzone]

"The opportunity for Miles to play with his brother was very appealing." Yes, the two talked.

When asked to describe his sons game - "Miles is a finisher, an accurate shooter that made 70% of his shots from the floor this past season, an excellent ball handler. I once saw him ..."

"He was with Mason on all his visits, so he was familiar with Duke."

"The two biggest reasons he chose Duke was number one, to play for Coach K and number two, play with his brother. He knew ..."

Here are some of the quotes from his Father I can share. I have to save the good stuff for my members. The family is very happy to be a part of Duke. I even have the skinny on their youngest son, Marshall. Oh, and Miles has grown. Lots of good stuff was shared with me. His commitment really helps our 08 class.

[watzone]

We've had a father/son duo (Gary and Lee Melchionni), but not at the same time of course!

Jay and Clay Buckley

[HK Dukie]

I'm so happy now! AWESOME!!!

[Uncle Drew]

We've had a father/son duo (Gary and Lee Melchionni), but not at the same time of course!

Yeah not at the same time of course, this isn't NC State; most fathers have graduated high school by the time their children do. Sorry, sorry, I couldn't resist. Thanks Ozzie, you set that one up for me and I knocked it down.

I'm gone for the night, think I'll listen to some Miles Davis as I nod off to sleep.

[devildeac]

Plumlee's > Wear's

Mathematically, talent-wise or both:D ?

[Blueequalslife23]

Marshall Come On Down!!! Haha

[godukecom]

Abby and Emily Waner...

[hc5duke]

To be fair to the Wears, they may exceed other recent TarHeel brother acts:

Pat and Ryan Sullivan
Chris and Matt Brust

By the way, I'm drawing a blank on brothers who have played for the Blue Devils...

Taylor and Billy King

[jimsumner]

C'mon people, am I the only one to remember Cedric and Garland Loftis?

[Capn Poptart]

If I read them right, a few months ago the Plumlee family despised Duke basketball. Now they may become the biggest Duke family ever.

Funny how this stuff works.

[CameronBornAndBred]

"Mason insisted his older brother Miles, who signed at Stanford, is a better athlete." There's a cool quote. (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=402127) Welcome to Duke, Miles. Poor Mason is gonna have an interesting rookie year. Play nice!:D

[Ignatius07]

Oooh boy - I sense another Lance Thomas experience of unrealistic expectations coming on. A few people need to seriously curb their enthusiasm, as some might say. I think it is a good pick-up, especially for the solid player he will hopefully be by his junior year and possibly in helping nab the supposedly most talented brother of Marshall (2010), but in the frontcourt pecking order, he is at best 4th, more likely 5th or 6th (Singler, Zoubek, LT, McClure, Czyz, Plumlee).

I would think we'd get between 5-10 minutes next year from him. The best thing, really, is that he can back up Zoubek more efficiently so Singler doesn't have to.

[phaedrus]

Taylor and Billy King

Brian and Greg Koubek?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Brian and Greg Koubek?

Now THAT is funny! :D

[Mike Corey]

Yup. Those plum trees sure are going to look nice in the Gardens.

:)

Great, great job by the staff to make this happen.

[devilboomer]

Yup. Those plum trees sure are going to look nice in the Gardens.

:)

Great, great job by the staff to make this happen.

by the looks of it (from the Rivals premium article), it seems like Miles recruited himself to Duke. He basically said (and this is my own words): "I want to play for Duke. Can you take me?"

[Duke> Ur Mom]

Oh yeah... to those that want the local paper's take on it....

http://citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080502/SPORTS0202/80501174&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

[stickdog]

(redacted deleted post)

Miles has grown over an inch and put on 20+ lbs of muscle in the last year and he can still clear 6'4" in the high jump. He's an athlete who improved a ton during his senior season, he can help Duke out starting next season, and his freshman experiences will help his brother Mason become better prepared by the time Mason arrives at Duke.

[Devilsfan]

Not bad an AD and an assistant coach for a much needed big man. Now on to the final four.

[BD80]

This means we have the MPs coming to arrest the opposition.

Perhaps to militaristic for college, but when your Coach is a West Point grad ...

[devildeac]

Taylor and Billy King

Too funny:D .

[BlueDevilJay]

I actually did a shortened version of the Peanut Butter Jelly Time dance when I saw and heard this news. You just don't land this high of a recruit in the spring, they are all already committed elsewhere.....This should easily make up for the loss of King. Yes we lost someone who could hit half court 3's sometimes, but gained a guy who is used to playing in the post, and won't be out of position down there like King unfortunately was. AWESOME recruiting job guys and welcome to the family Miles! (Oh yeah, Nate James for assistant coach, keep the campaign going!)

Okay so heres what we know. We have landed two great high school basketball players, who happen to be brothers, and who have the potential to be great college players. Im sorry if I get excited about Duke landing another top level recruit, whether he turns out to be Lance Thomas or another Brand, I could care less at this point. Duke needed some positive energy in the program, and this is definitely generating it.

[slower]

Oooh boy - I sense another Lance Thomas experience of unrealistic expectations coming on. A few people need to seriously curb their enthusiasm, as some might say. I think it is a good pick-up, especially for the solid player he will hopefully be by his junior year and possibly in helping nab the supposedly most talented brother of Marshall (2010), but in the frontcourt pecking order, he is at best 4th, more likely 5th or 6th (Singler, Zoubek, LT, McClure, Czyz, Plumlee).

I would think we'd get between 5-10 minutes next year from him. The best thing, really, is that he can back up Zoubek more efficiently so Singler doesn't have to.

Opinions, that is. Having never seen Czyz or Plumlee play in person, I think it's a bit early to speculate about the depth chart at the 5. Alas, that is what we posters love to do - speculate. If Czyz is the physical specimen/competitive animal that some claim, then who knows? Same for Plumlee. Yada, yada, yada...

[Devildog]

The best thing in my opinion is that K has more options. Zoubek, Thomas, Plumlee, and Czyz each bring something different to the table. In addtion, competitive practices will improve everyone and keep folks motivated.

[whereinthehellami]

Here are some links regarding Miles;

ESPN scouting report (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=44485&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d444 85).

Scout's profile page (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=2653726).

Rivals profile page with video (http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=65463&Sport=2&SR=TSN).

[kramerbr]

So all of the sudden we go from lack of depth in the post to being set?

Does anyone think this will have an affect on Favor's decision? There will be Zoubek, LT, Olek, Miles, (maybe) Singler, and Mason playing minutes in the 4-5 slots in 2009-2010.

[wilko]

Yeah, Im pleased, actually. We struggled in the post horribly last year. I'll take solid and competent over struggling any day.

Also... I think the spectacular players leave early so whats really a short term fix? Hard to say these days...

I feel that if last years team had had an Erik Meek, Taymon Domzalski,
or Casey Sanders we would have had an extra dimension to our O and possibly not be as beat up at the end of the year. Now we've got enuff depth to rotate guys based on matchups and wider foul distribution to absorb and deliever.

Scheyer got Zoubs the ball enuff to get him 6pts a game when he played... If Miles has ANY wheels he'll get looks.. Olek, Lance, McClure, All in the mix.

Each add different things.. Lance showed flashes last year so I expect him to improve.. Dave was great in the post as an undersized defender... he had touble D'ing up on the perimeter. Olek is unknown.

A Brand or Boozer would be an extreme luxury.

Having a solid core of support puts us in EXTREMELY good position to recruit that next spectacular player.... one who wants to showcase, grow and not be a savior, cuz we dont need saving.

Yeah Im happy.

[sagegrouse]

Jay and Clay Buckley

At my 25th reunion (Jay was my classmate), Clay was at Duke. At one reception, one slightly inebriated classmate came up to Clay and said seriously, "Jay, you haven't changed a bit."

sagegrouse

[sagegrouse]

One problem Brian has had is no one of comparable size and bulk to practice against.

Czyz and Plumlee change that situation quite a bit. And, of course, they will benefit from having Brian on the team.

sagegrouse

[Cormac]

Has anyone here actually seen the Plumlee brothers in a game? Just curious if anyone can offer any first hand reports, whether that be high school or AAU. All I know is what rivals/scout tell me and star rankings are just a place to start, not the end all-be-all of what a player offers.

[Ignatius07]

Opinions, that is. Having never seen Czyz or Plumlee play in person, I think it's a bit early to speculate about the depth chart at the 5. Alas, that is what we posters love to do - speculate. If Czyz is the physical specimen/competitive animal that some claim, then who knows? Same for Plumlee. Yada, yada, yada...

True, none of us actually know what the depth chart will be, but recruiting rankings are helpful to a certain degree. For instance, on very good teams, pretty consistently the only freshmen to make a large impact in their first year are top-20. Let's not forget that both Z and LT were higher rated out of high school and have two years in college under their belts. I just think some people are underestimating the transition to the college game, especially in the post. I'm not saying Plumlee won't help some, I just don't think he's going to be the difference between, say, the Sweet 16 and the Final Four.

[watzone]

This means we have the MPs coming to arrest the opposition.

Perhaps to militaristic for college, but when your Coach is a West Point grad ...

All three Plumlee childrens initials are MP.

[BlueDevilJay]

Can someone tell me how speculating on who will be better, Miles or Mason, is considered a lockable thread offense? I was kinda interested to see what people had to say on the matter, what our hopes are, etc, only to see the thread immediately locked. I mean, had something negative been said in there, I could see deleting it and locking it, but to preempt it because "there might be something destructive" said is a bit much to me, honestly. Whats the point of even having ANY open threads, as in any of them something MIGHT be posted negative....just plain old weird, but for some reason I'm not all that surprised any more :rolleyes:

For the record, I was planning on posting in that thread discussing the potential of both guys, how I thought they would fit in with the program, and nothing negative about either, as Im stoked to have them both and consider it a blessing for Duke to get them......sheesh.

[Bluedawg]

I have read accounts on several boards but are there any free sites reporting this?

I know I'm 4 pages late coming on the board [had Dr.'s appt] but here is the article from today's N&O.


Devils add late recruit (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/duke/story/1057947.html)Published: May 02, 2008 12:30 AM Modified: May 02, 2008 05:27 AM

Tim Stevens, Staff Writer

Duke added one of the top high school senior basketball players in the country Thursday when 6-foot-10 Miles Plumlee picked the Blue Devils.

"He got his release and immediately committed to Duke," said Dave Telep, the national recruiting coordinator for Scout.com.

If this article has already been posted please excuse the repeat.

[Devilsfan]

Our poor stregnth coach suddenly has more work to do.

[duketaylor]

http://videos.thestate.com/vmix_hosted_apps/p/media?id=1609766

Here's 2 1/2 minutes of video from a game. Looks decent. Miles is #13 and Mason's #23.

Welcome to Duke all the Plumlee's!!!!

[JasonEvans]

Can someone tell me how speculating on who will be better, Miles or Mason, is considered a lockable thread offense? I was kinda interested to see what people had to say on the matter, what our hopes are, etc, only to see the thread immediately locked. I mean, had something negative been said in there, I could see deleting it and locking it, but to preempt it because "there might be something destructive" said is a bit much to me, honestly. Whats the point of even having ANY open threads, as in any of them something MIGHT be posted negative....just plain old weird, but for some reason I'm not all that surprised any more :rolleyes:

For the record, I was planning on posting in that thread discussing the potential of both guys, how I thought they would fit in with the program, and nothing negative about either, as Im stoked to have them both and consider it a blessing for Duke to get them......sheesh.

The odds that something destructively negative would be said were so close to 100% as to make the thread an easy lock. Frankly, even this thread, which is a celebration of a new Dukie coming into the fold, has contained several posts that were destructively negative.

People need to learn to read the stickied posting guidelines before they post for the first time.

--Jason "also, just FYI, questions about moderation decisions are best handled over PM but seeing as you made your complaint public I posted a public response" Evans

[Bluedawg]

"The opportunity for Miles to play with his brother was very appealing." Yes, the two talked.

When asked to describe his sons game - "Miles is a finisher, an accurate shooter that made 70% of his shots from the floor this past season, an excellent ball handler. I once saw him ..."

"He was with Mason on all his visits, so he was familiar with Duke."

"The two biggest reasons he chose Duke was number one, to play for Coach K and number two, play with his brother. He knew ..."

Here are some of the quotes from his Father I can share. I have to save the good stuff for my members. The family is very happy to be a part of Duke. I even have the skinny on their youngest son, Marshall. Oh, and Miles has grown. Lots of good stuff was shared with me. His commitment really helps our 08 class.

Ok...my turn to sound out of touch... " my members"???

[delfrio]

I realize Miles is 6' 10'', but the scouting report on him makes it sound like he's less of a banger down low and more of an outside man. Do we know he'll be playing as a true 5?

[Bluedawg]

Oooh boy - I sense another Lance Thomas experience of unrealistic expectations coming on. A few people need to seriously curb their enthusiasm, as some might say. I think it is a good pick-up, especially for the solid player he will hopefully be by his junior year and possibly in helping nab the supposedly most talented brother of Marshall (2010), but in the frontcourt pecking order, he is at best 4th, more likely 5th or 6th (Singler, Zoubek, LT, McClure, Czyz, Plumlee).

I would think we'd get between 5-10 minutes next year from him. The best thing, really, is that he can back up Zoubek more efficiently so Singler doesn't have to.

Also from today's N&O


Telep said Miles Plumlee will have an immediate impact on the Blue Devils' program.

"He gives Duke a legitimate frontcourt scoring threat," Telep said. [Dave Telep, the national recruiting coordinator for Scout.com]

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/duke/story/1057947.html

[MChambers]

I realize Miles is 6' 10'', but the scouting report on him makes it sound like he's less of a banger down low and more of an outside man. Do we know he'll be playing as a true 5?

What's a "true 5"? At 6'10", I'm sure he'll often defend the other team's tallest player. Is that good enough? Or are you worried about low post scoring? Not sure he'll supply a lot of that, but let's wait and see.

[JasonEvans]

So all of the sudden we go from lack of depth in the post to being set?

Does anyone think this will have an affect on Favor's decision? There will be Zoubek, LT, Olek, Miles, (maybe) Singler, and Mason playing minutes in the 4-5 slots in 2009-2010.

I wonder if Michael Beasley was worried about playing time at K-St or if Kevin Durant was concerned that he might not get time at Texas.

Kids like Favors, generally regarded as the #1 player in an extremely deep and talented class, do not worry about playing time. I mean, maybe if Duke had a sure-fire high lottery pick who was a senior playing in the post he might worry a bit. But, must as I like our big men, we don't have one of those and I think the path to playing time at Duke is pretty clear for a kid as talented as Favors.

--Jason "I like the feeling that things are trending up for Duke right now... this is going to be a big few months of recruiting as we attempt to land some real studs from 2009" Evans

[yancem]

The best thing in my opinion is that K has more options. Zoubek, Thomas, Plumlee, and Czyz each bring something different to the table. In addtion, competitive practices will improve everyone and keep folks motivated.

I think that you hit the nose hight on the head with the part about practice. This is a good pickup for Duke because it adds depth and flexibility to the front court lineup (I also agree with an earlier post about it spreading scholarships out being a good thing). Realistically, though I don't expect Miles to come in and make huge contributions next year. If he does great, but as someone pointed out earlier, only top tier recruits (1-20+/-?) usually make large immediate impacts.

Sometimes a lower rated recruit comes in and blows up and from all of the excitement on these boards we may have two in the upcoming freshman class. I just think that to EXPECT either Miles or Olek to come in and average more than 6-10 mpg, 3-5 ppg and 2-4 rpg is setting yourself up for disappointment. The good think is that if Zoubek and Thomas are healthy and develop in a normal fashion we shouldn't need much more than those numbers to be a very good team. Anything else would be gravy.

[wilson]

By the way, I'm drawing a blank on brothers who have played for the Blue Devils...

Justin and Ryan Caldbeck

[Lord Ash]

I know that Miles is a bit on the skinny side, but I am happy that in every picture I have seen of him his musculature, especially in his arms, looks very defined. No doughy-ness in sight. That is nice to see.

[Lord Ash]

Oh, and I know this sounds silly, but can you imagine...

5 Zoubek
4 Plumlee the Elder
3 Singler
2 Scheyer or Hendo
1 Greg or Nolan


That is a pretty darn tall line-up... and it doesn't even use Thomas or Czzzz. Or Pocious or McClure...

[BD80]

Oh, and I know this sounds silly, but can you imagine...

5 Zoubek
4 Plumlee the Elder
3 Singler
2 Scheyer or Hendo
1 Greg or Nolan


That is a pretty darn tall line-up... and it doesn't even use Thomas or Czzzz. Or Pocious or McClure...


Uh ohh, you listed Singler at the 3. Stand back everybody and get your marshmallows ready ...

[Ignatius07]

Uh ohh, you listed Singler at the 3. Stand back everybody and get your marshmallows ready ...

Haha - I thought everybody had been properly warned about bringing this up?

[Lord Ash]

*laugh* Sorry, just wanted to imagine what a super tall line-up would be, if we really needed height (say, the team was going on a roller-coaster.) I am sure no one will mind.

[tux]

If you look back through the recruiting rankings from years past, there are always a couple (or maybe a handful) of players who were 50-100 or 100-150 that ended up being great. However, fans of every team are hoping that the guy ranked 88 is going to be "better than people realize." You hear this all the time; folks see a few dunks on youtube and get excited.

Miles (in the near term) helps mainly with practice depth, IMO. You always hope to have one or two freshmen that play well enough to be part of the regular rotation, like Kyle and Nolan (to a lesser extent) were last year. I expect Williams to be that freshman in the 08 class. If either Olek or Miles are good enough to be in the mix as freshmen, that would be a real bonus. (And I don't mean this as a knock on either guy, both of who could develop into great players.) However, what Duke really needs is for Lance and Brian to make significant leaps this year. Duke needs a guy in the post trying to actually dominate, as opposed to just trying to stay on the court and not make any mistakes.

[jimsumner]

This is a nice pick-up. Adds size, depth, and flexibility. Maybe more. Remains to be seen.

But yes, late signees tend to be over-valued. Two years ago Duke signed a promising but raw 6'8" forward who averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds a game as a senior. But giddy Duke fans immediately decided that Lance Thomas would single-handedly solve Duke's interior woes. When it didn't happen, many of them turned on Thomas and began looking for a new savior, like, oh, I don't know, a promising but raw Hoosier by way of western North Carolina. When Plumlee doesn't immediately invoke comparisons with Danny Ferry and Christian Laettner, what happens then?

In other words, let's try and keep our expectations at rational levels. I know, I know, this is a message board and it's off-season and Jumbo's knitting suggestion doesn't work for everyone. Just dial it down a bit, that's all I'm asking.

[freedevil]

This is a nice pick-up. Adds size, depth, and flexibility. Maybe more. Remains to be seen.

But yes, late signees tend to be over-valued. Two years ago Duke signed a promising but raw 6'8" forward who averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds a game as a senior. But giddy Duke fans immediately decided that Lance Thomas would single-handedly solve Duke's interior woes. When it didn't happen, many of them turned on Thomas and began looking for a new savior, like, oh, I don't know, a promising but raw Hoosier by way of western North Carolina. When Plumlee doesn't immediately invoke comparisons with Danny Ferry and Christian Laettner, what happens then?

In other words, let's try and keep our expectations at rational levels. I know, I know, this is a message board and it's off-season and Jumbo's knitting suggestion doesn't work for everyone. Just dial it down a bit, that's all I'm asking.

Ah-greeeeeeeeeeeeeeed. All I want to see from Miles is sustained improvement over time. I'm not expecting him to play more than 5-10 a game, but as he plays 5-10 and the season progresses, I look forward to his improvement and contributions.

[Edouble]

This is a nice pick-up. Adds size, depth, and flexibility. Maybe more. Remains to be seen.

But yes, late signees tend to be over-valued. Two years ago Duke signed a promising but raw 6'8" forward who averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds a game as a senior. But giddy Duke fans immediately decided that Lance Thomas would single-handedly solve Duke's interior woes. When it didn't happen, many of them turned on Thomas and began looking for a new savior, like, oh, I don't know, a promising but raw Hoosier by way of western North Carolina. When Plumlee doesn't immediately invoke comparisons with Danny Ferry and Christian Laettner, what happens then?

In other words, let's try and keep our expectations at rational levels. I know, I know, this is a message board and it's off-season and Jumbo's knitting suggestion doesn't work for everyone. Just dial it down a bit, that's all I'm asking.

This is an excellent point. But right now I am not hoping for a Laettner or a Ferry. I am hoping for two things from young Miles:

1) That he is tough enough to hold his spot in the post and get rebounds. If he really is 6'10", 230 lbs, I think this is a reasonable thing to wish for.

2) That he can hit his free throws. I've been looking around for some free throw numbers on this kid, but can't find any.

If we can get a big guy that can stay injury free, can get 6-7 boards/game, and can hit 70% from the line, I think we are in the title hunt. So far, the two guys that were the most likely candidates to do this, Z and Lance, have been unable to deliver, whether due to injury or size. With Miles in the mix, it pushes everyone in practice and takes pressure off of Z and Lance to have to deliver for 25 minutes a game. Miles is not Patrick Patterson, from what I can tell--but he is also not a project. Apparently, he can get up and down in the open court too, which is a huge bonus for our style of play. Even if we have to slow it down some with Zoubs, we can take it up a notch with Lance and Miles if we want to run.

[Truth]

All three Plumlee childrens initials are MP.

MP3!

[Duke> Ur Mom]

So I'm not allowed to state this is not a good signing because coach K is trying to fix now instead of saving the schollie for better talent in 09?

[freedevil]

So I'm not allowed to state this is not a good signing because coach K is trying to fix now instead of saving the schollie for better talent in 09?

Think of Miles as an upgrade at a position of need over King, who was essentially a wing.

[Acymetric]

So I'm not allowed to state this is not a good signing because coach K is trying to fix now instead of saving the schollie for better talent in 09?

There are still plenty of scholarships for 09. How big of a class are you expecting to have? We got a scholarship freed up, and Coach K is using it on a player who could very well probe to be a great contributer this year or later in his career.

[Olympic Fan]

C'mon people, am I the only one to remember Cedric and Garland Loftis?

Jim, I think you are right that the Loftis brothers are the best pair of brothers to play basketball at Duke. The funny thing is that they were (I think) triplets -- I know they had a third brother (Shuler?) who played with them on that great Durham High team along with Bones, Bob Gantt (who was part of a two-sport father/son combo at Duke -- his father was a great pitcher for the baseball team) and Gordon Carver.

It's funny because while we haven't had a lot of brother combos in basketball (I can also think of the Hendrickson's in the '30s and the Sapp's in the late 40s), we've had a ton in football -- off the top of my head, I can think of the McAfee's, the McGee's, four Knotts brothers and, of course, the Jones twins today. Were Tom and Jap Davis brothers? I think so.

I can also think of one recent football/basketball brother combo. Shane Battier worked out pretty well in hoops ... his little brother Jeremy didn't fare as well on the football field.

[slower]

True, none of us actually know what the depth chart will be, but recruiting rankings are helpful to a certain degree. For instance, on very good teams, pretty consistently the only freshmen to make a large impact in their first year are top-20. Let's not forget that both Z and LT were higher rated out of high school and have two years in college under their belts. I just think some people are underestimating the transition to the college game, especially in the post. I'm not saying Plumlee won't help some, I just don't think he's going to be the difference between, say, the Sweet 16 and the Final Four.

...with most of your points. It's just my own opinion that, aside from Singler at #1 in the "big man" pecking order, everything else is up for grabs.

[ugadevil]

So I'm not allowed to state this is not a good signing because coach K is trying to fix now instead of saving the schollie for better talent in 09?

You can say it. As a second post, it's rather bold. Who would the scholarship be available for in '09? Do you have any inside information as to whether or not certain players plan to turn pro after the upcoming season? Also, as someone else stated, how big is the 2009 class going to be? By all means say it, if you can defend it.

[Acymetric]

Jim, I think you are right that the Loftis brothers are the best pair of brothers to play basketball at Duke. The funny thing is that they were (I think) triplets -- I know they had a third brother (Shuler?) who played with them on that great Durham High team along with Bones, Bob Gantt (who was part of a two-sport father/son combo at Duke -- his father was a great pitcher for the baseball team) and Gordon Carver.

It's funny because while we haven't had a lot of brother combos in basketball (I can also think of the Hendrickson's in the '30s and the Sapp's in the late 40s), we've had a ton in football -- off the top of my head, I can think of the McAfee's, the McGee's, four Knotts brothers and, of course, the Jones twins today. Were Tom and Jap Davis brothers? I think so.

I can also think of one recent football/basketball brother combo. Shane Battier worked out pretty well in hoops ... his little brother Jeremy didn't fare as well on the football field.

Don't forget Zack and Paul this year. I hope that's his name...I'm not checking. The Asacks.

[Duke> Ur Mom]

If I'm a big time recruit, and I see Coach K pulling desperate moves with players who r reaches... and him tryin to plug holes with NOW instead of building for the future with quality, i'd go somewhere else... Duke is courting several players, and stuff like this is NOT enticing to them. Plumlee is a upgrade over King, but as far as this season, he's not going to get duke over the hump in 08? so y not get some athletes in there who can make Duke versatile instead of bringing in shavlick's little brother? Duke has TOO many projects on the team to bring in another one.

[Classof06]

OK, so he's not a five-star. But Duke is in such desperate need in the paint that even a "just quality" PF should help tremendously as part of the frontcourt rotation. With two PF's coming in next year (and Czyz developing very nicely) this could end up paying huge dividends.


Agree wholeheartedly. Wow, this just made my weekend. Getting Plumlee substantially increases my hopes about next year not because the kid is Michael Jordan but because he brings frontcourt depth, a hole (or former hole :D ) Duke desperately needs to fill; this is a HUGE step in the right direction.

I'm not expecting 15 and 10 from the kid next year but this pickup does more for Duke than it looks on the surface. IMO, Duke became an incrementally better team yesterday.

Now if the Cavs can finish the job tonight, this will be an even better weekend..

[jgehtland]

If I'm a big time recruit, and I see Coach K pulling desperate moves with players who r reaches... and him tryin to plug holes with NOW instead of building for the future with quality, i'd go somewhere else... Duke is courting several players, and stuff like this is NOT enticing to them. Plumlee is a upgrade over King, but as far as this season, he's not going to get duke over the hump in 08? so y not get some athletes in there who can make Duke versatile instead of bringing in shavlick's little brother? Duke has TOO many projects on the team to bring in another one.

Don't take this as rude, but this post is logically inconsistent from top to bottom.

1) Coaches who take "projects" aren't "plugging for NOW", they are "building for the future". Projects, by definition, don't contribute now, they blossom over time. As examples: Derrick Rose, not a project, one and done. Hasheem Thabeet, project, blossoming. I'd say holding that scholarship and giving it to Favors is more of a "plugging for NOW" move. Plus, we STILL HAVE SCHOLARSHIPS available in '09.

2) Duke has plenty of "athletes". Hendo, Lance, Kyle, Nolan, Jon, EWill. Plugging in another run-jumper makes zero sense, when everybody everybody everybody agrees that we stalled late because we had nobody to man the post.

3) Not everybody who signs with a team is a hotshot surefire prospect. Teams NEED guys who are willing to come off the bench. You can't just snap your fingers and fill every slot with a Greg Oden. Doesn't happen.

4) How any recruit on the planet would read this as a negative is beyond me; Miles' little brother is going there in a year. They are a close family. Miles helps fill an obvious need on the team. He'll be there for the long haul. What the heck is not to like? It isn't like K went out after school let out looking for big guys to back out of their commitments; this fell in his lap, and he'd be stupid not to take advantage of it.

I just don't see the downside unless this kid turns into JameSon Forte-Dyiae.

[davekay1971]

Ah-greeeeeeeeeeeeeeed. All I want to see from Miles is sustained improvement over time. I'm not expecting him to play more than 5-10 a game, but as he plays 5-10 and the season progresses, I look forward to his improvement and contributions.

I want to see him have the best work ethic in basketball, an instinct for the boards, a suspect defensive game, the ability to build campfires in the lane without getting hit up for a 3 second violation, the ability to confuse refs into thinking 4 steps is actually 2, the ability to climb the backs of opposing players without getting called for a foul, solid free-throw shooting AND the ability to get to the line 10-12 times per game, a mid-range jumper that goes from poor to pretty decent, a wicked forehand at the ping-pong table, and, most of all, the ability to jump from high balconies into a swimming pool...without taking his socks off!

On second thought, I don't want that.

[CameronCrazy'11]

If I'm a big time recruit, and I see Coach K pulling desperate moves with players who r reaches... and him tryin to plug holes with NOW instead of building for the future with quality, i'd go somewhere else... Duke is courting several players, and stuff like this is NOT enticing to them. Plumlee is a upgrade over King, but as far as this season, he's not going to get duke over the hump in 08? so y not get some athletes in there who can make Duke versatile instead of bringing in shavlick's little brother? Duke has TOO many projects on the team to bring in another one.

How is getting Miles not building for the future? If anything, getting a one and done is the way to fill a gap now and not build for the future. It is very likely that Miles will stay all four years, and by his junior and senior year will probably be putting in significant minutes and points. Even if he never starts for Duke, good teams need a good bench, and he's a good step in helping us build depth in the low post. The suggestion that signing Mies would scare off recruits in '09 simply doesn't hold any weight. For one thing, he doesn't compete at all with the guards we're trying to land, and an elite big man like Favors knows he's going to play as many minutes as he can each game. He's not going to turn down Duke because our bench has a little more depth. This is definitely a good thing for Duke in both the short and the long run.

[JasonEvans]

After banning Duke> Ur Mom for what are obviously destructively negative posts (anyone who gets 2 infractions in their first 5 posts is a troll), I was all ready to delete his mean-spirited posts. But, I am going to leave them up because folks are already refuting his idiotic points so well. Props to ya'll for dealing with this by using logic and basketball sense.

--Jason "dude needs a new posting home" Evans

[OldPhiKap]

^ Odd that someone pops up to troll on this issue. Must be a Stanford fan.

[NovaScotian]

^^this is yet another example of the dbr secret police silencing dissent and criticism. this guy/girl was trying to make a point about how he/she thought it would be more worthwhile to save a sholarship for next year as part of moving in another direction in terms of recruiting. he/she saw plumlee as a desperation stop-gap solution for next year whos talents are in line with other unremarkable bigmen who have come through duke.

i for one will miss his/her fresh insight

[stickdog]

If I'm a big time recruit, and I see Coach K pulling desperate moves with players who r reaches... and him tryin to plug holes with NOW instead of building for the future with quality, i'd go somewhere else... Duke is courting several players, and stuff like this is NOT enticing to them. Plumlee is a upgrade over King, but as far as this season, he's not going to get duke over the hump in 08? so y not get some athletes in there who can make Duke versatile instead of bringing in shavlick's little brother? Duke has TOO many projects on the team to bring in another one.
Name the "projects" Duke has and the schools that would take such projects. Duke has a lot of projected four year contributors. That doesn't equate to projects, that equates to stability and consistent top 10 team play. Specifically, who are Duke's 10-12 players next season? Which NCAA teams have better talent at the 10-12 spots on their rosters?

[ugadevil]

^ Odd that someone pops up to troll on this issue. Must be a Stanford fan.

Watch out for Kewlswim! I'd give Stanford fans more credit than that.

[slower]

^^this is yet another example of the dbr secret police silencing dissent and criticism. this guy/girl was trying to make a point about how he/she thought it would be more worthwhile to save a sholarship for next year as part of moving in another direction in terms of recruiting. he/she saw plumlee as a desperation stop-gap solution for next year whos talents are in line with other unremarkable bigmen who have come through duke.

i for one will miss his/her fresh insight

Not me. Thanks for the ban. My first thought was "troll". As much as we all may have "free speech" issues, I think many of us would quickly abandon DBR if it degenerated into the chaos that is an unmoderated board.

[OldPhiKap]

Watch out for Kewlswim! I'd give Stanford fans more credit than that.

I will, and no broad insult intended. It just struck me as a pretty clear trolling effort, and this kid seems an odd target for such a swift attack. So I figured it was not just some random Carolina fan, but someone motivated by this specific event. Which leads me back to Stanford. . . .

But I have a great respect for the institution and it now has one of my favorite coaches in the country. I'll be pulling for Stanford in their non-Duke games.

[BlueDevilJay]

The odds that something destructively negative would be said were so close to 100% as to make the thread an easy lock. Frankly, even this thread, which is a celebration of a new Dukie coming into the fold, has contained several posts that were destructively negative.

People need to learn to read the stickied posting guidelines before they post for the first time.

--Jason "also, just FYI, questions about moderation decisions are best handled over PM but seeing as you made your complaint public I posted a public response" Evans

My apologies Jason, I wasn't typing that up as an intention of publically calling you out. You are correct sir, and next time I have a question of that nature, I'll PM you first. Thanks. :)

[MChambers]

^^this is yet another example of the dbr secret police silencing dissent and criticism. this guy/girl was trying to make a point about how he/she thought it would be more worthwhile to save a sholarship for next year as part of moving in another direction in terms of recruiting. he/she saw plumlee as a desperation stop-gap solution for next year whos talents are in line with other unremarkable bigmen who have come through duke.

i for one will miss his/her fresh insight

As far as I can tell, that makes one of you.

[Saratoga2]

By losing DeMarcus and gaining Williams, we have lost some experience and defensive presence, but have also possibly gained in one area by getting a quicker slasher. That's TBD. We also get Pocius back

In Czyz we have gained a very athletic and strong 6'7" guy who can contribute inside and help the very thin front court from last year. Now with Plumlee, a good sized front court player, we have added depth. Also, Zoubek, Thomas, McClure and Singler all should improve off of last year.

We really will have a very solid back court with experience and depth. In the front court we have Singler, a budding star, and while no other front court player fits into the star category, there are a lot of hard working and capable kids there. Next season should be really fun to watch and maybe we can break back into the final four.

It looks like we will have 12 scholarship players this year and only Paulus leaving though graduation. It is conceivable that one or two more of our guys may try to turn pro at the end of the coming season. We could have 2 or three scholarships available with Plumlee committed to one of those. Priorities would be to find another point guard to help Smith and a gifted front court player who can add points, rebounds, blocks to the team. Interesting times.

[ehdg]

Hmm could be mistaken but won't Pocius also be a Senior next year with Paulus?

[RepoMan]

Redshirt this past season. So, he still has 2 years of eligibility.

[dukejunkie]

It looks like we will have 12 scholarship players this year and only Paulus leaving though graduation. It is conceivable that one or two more of our guys may try to turn pro at the end of the coming season. We could have 2 or three scholarships available with Plumlee committed to one of those. Priorities would be to find another point guard to help Smith and a gifted front court player who can add points, rebounds, blocks to the team. Interesting times.

I believe McClure is going to be a fifth year senior. Therefore, Duke will have 2 spots open for 2009/2010 in addition to Mason Plumlee. Any early entrants into the draft would add to that number.

[JasonEvans]

^^this is yet another example of the dbr secret police silencing dissent and criticism. this guy/girl was trying to make a point about how he/she thought it would be more worthwhile to save a sholarship for next year as part of moving in another direction in terms of recruiting. he/she saw plumlee as a desperation stop-gap solution for next year whos talents are in line with other unremarkable bigmen who have come through duke.

i for one will miss his/her fresh insight

Thanks for your opinion of the moderation on DBR. The mods often discuss whether we are being too lenient or too harsh as well as many other issues. I am not being sarcastic when I say that a post like yours will give us pause to consider what we do.

That said, it sounds like you do not like the way the DBR is run. You clearly are someone who has been around these parts a while and have strong feelings about the moderation here. If that is the case, you are more than welcome to post/read elsewhere. There are many other Duke bulletin boards. You will have no trouble at all finding "fresh insight" like that on them. I doubt you will ever find the DBR allowing negative commentary like that to remain unpunished.

I must say that am a little stung by the "secret police" label. It seems particularly strange here, in a thread where the actions of the mods are being discussed out in the open and at the prompting of the mods. To me, that is the polar opposite of "secret police."

--Jason "I won't be around much this afternoon-- but I'll check up on this over the weekend" Evans

[VaDukie]

Hmm could be mistaken but won't Pocius also be a Senior next year with Paulus?

He was a redshirt this past year so we've got two more years of Marty :D

[CameronCrazy'11]

Redshirt this past season. So, he still has 2 years of eligibility.

But Pocius did play a few games last year before he got injured. Does he still gain another year of eligibility if he didn't sit the whole season out? And i know Jordan Davidson is a walk on, but I think I remember hearing somewhere that K gave him a scholarship anyway because we had one available. If that's true we would have four scholarships opening up next year just due to graduation.

[Troublemaker]

Nice, little tidbits on the Miles recruitment from the Charlotte Observer

http://aboverim.blogspot.com/2008/05/plumlee-family-dynamics-pay-off-for.html

[BCGroup]

"Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski and assistant Chris Collins were careful about how they recruited Miles Plumlee after Stanford released him from his scholarship."

http://aboverim.blogspot.com/2008/05/plumlee-family-dynamics-pay-off-for.html

[RepoMan]

But Pocius did play a few games last year before he got injured. Does he still gain another year of eligibility if he didn't sit the whole season out?

I am 99% certain that Marty received a medical redshirt and has 2 full years of eligibility

[jimsumner]

Pocius has two more years, if he's inclined to use them. He will be an academic senior next year and could elect to graduate and play professionally in Europe. I suspect the decision has not been made yet.

All athletic scholarships are for one year, renewable or not at the discretion of the school. When a walk-on like Jordan Davidson is awarded a scholarship, it is done so with the understanding that the scholarship can and will be pulled if needed for a recruited players.

[davekay1971]

That said, it sounds like you do not like the way the DBR is run. You clearly are someone who has been around these parts a while and have strong feelings about the moderation here. If that is the case, you are more than welcome to post/read elsewhere.

I must say that am a little stung by the "secret police" label. It seems particularly strange here, in a thread where the actions of the mods are being discussed out in the open and at the prompting of the mods. To me, that is the polar opposite of "secret police."

--Jason "I won't be around much this afternoon-- but I'll check up on this over the weekend" Evans

I'm in complete agreement that the "secret police" label is completely unwarranted. However, I think the first paragraph quoted above is, in and of itself, destructive and negative.

As someone who's had a post deleted and received warning, I actually like the way this board is moderated and found Jason to be very reasonable in a PM discussion of the matter...but I think people who read and post here should be allowed to critique, and receive a better answer than something along the lines of "love it or leave it."

[davekay1971]

"Gaines envisions Miles Plumlee helping Duke immediately because Gaines said he is strong and athletic enough to guard opposing centers. Miles weighs 230 pounds, and Gaines said he could bulk up to 240 by the time his freshman season starts" (from the Charlotte Observer link above)

Back to the topic at hand...I'm trying not to get too excited about Mr. Miles

Duke is looking increasingly strong for 08-09 :)

[davekay1971]

"their parents, Perky and Leslie Plumlee" (also from the Charlotte Observer link).

His name is really Perky?? I guess we'll get to hear some ACC crowds having fun with that...

[Troublemaker]

I'm in complete agreement that the "secret police" label is completely unwarranted. However, I think the first paragraph quoted above is, in and of itself, destructive and negative.

As someone who's had a post deleted and received warning, I actually like the way this board is moderated and found Jason to be very reasonable in a PM discussion of the matter...but I think people who read and post here should be allowed to critique, and receive a better answer than something along the lines of "love it or leave it."

Except Jason didn't say that critique of the moderation is disallowed, nor would I characterize his response as "love it or leave it," but rather "be practical." Jason was giving the most practical and straightforward advice possible, imo. Which is that users of this board need to learn what the rules are and figure out whether they want to participate in a community that abides by those rules or not. If the answer is no, then seeking another place to post at is the most practical solution. Because the rules are not changing.

[trinity92]

"Back to the topic at hand...I'm trying not to get too excited about Mr. Miles

Duke is looking increasingly strong for 08-09 :)

I see no reason to hold back your enthusiasm for this AMAZING late season pick-up.

Don't get me wrong-- I'm not expecting Miles to come in and transform the program, or average a double-double right out of the starting gate. However, until this news, I expected next year to be a repeat of this one, due to our failure to pick up a post player. Without Miles, I truly believe 2008-2009 would have been another very entertaining year watching a team we all could be proud of, but Mssrs. EW and OC (absolutely no insult here) didn't and don't address our most obvious needs.

Until adding MP, we were entering this coming season in virtually exactly the same position as last year: the team's ability to make any post-season run would hinge on Zoubek and LT's substantial improvement. Now, we can add MP's contribution as another factor. To me, that is an immeasurable step forward, and I'm so much more excited for this coming season than I was before.

Go Duke!!

[Troublemaker]

What can Miles bring to the table?

Honestly, I'm not expecting a thin freshman to arrive on campus and be able to significantly improve Duke's rebounding. Duke's rebounding deficits have always been mostly a function of the way we play defense and emphasize creating turnovers, anyway. So, instead of "I hope Miles can provide X boards a game," what I'm really hoping Miles can bring to the table are:

(a) Shotblocking. Can he provide weakside help and protect the rim without needing to draw a charge? Shotblocking is the easiest way a young post can come in and help Duke. I say "easiest" because Duke lacks a shotblocker and also because oftentimes, a post player can be relatively unskilled but still be a good shotblocker. That is, shotblocking seems to be an innate talent, and I'm wondering whether Miles has it.

(b) More greedily, I'm hoping he can score. Unlike shotblocking, being able to score in the post is mostly a developed skill and I'm hoping he arrives on campus with this skill already in place so he can help on offense right away. If he can score in the post, it will obviously increase the consistency of Duke's offense, as short-distance shots are more consistent than long-distance shots. From what I've gathered, Miles has good length and good springs in his legs. The question is can he hold position inside, and does he have touch on his shot? McRoberts had height and hops but zero touch.

[BlueintheFace]

What can Miles bring to the table?

Honestly, I'm not expecting a thin freshman to arrive on campus and be able to significantly improve Duke's rebounding. Duke's rebounding deficits have always been mostly a function of the way we play defense and emphasize creating turnovers, anyway. So, instead of "I hope Miles can provide X boards a game," what I'm really hoping Miles can bring to the table are:

(a) Shotblocking. Can he provide weakside help and protect the rim without needing to draw a charge? Shotblocking is the easiest way a young post can come in and help Duke. I say "easiest" because Duke lacks a shotblocker and also because oftentimes, a post player can be relatively unskilled but still be a good shotblocker. That is, shotblocking seems to be an innate talent, and I'm wondering whether Miles has it.

(b) More greedily, I'm hoping he can score. Unlike shotblocking, being able to score in the post is mostly a developed skill and I'm hoping he arrives on campus with this skill already in place so he can help on offense right away. If he can score in the post, it will obviously increase the consistency of Duke's offense, as short-distance shots are more consistent than long-distance shots.

I think you make a good point about shotblocking, but the kid is 6-10/11 (depending on the source) and a top 100 recruit. I think it is far more appropriate to expect good rebounding from a freshman like this than to expect offensive production on a team with so many scoring threats. Our two biggest problems last year were rebounding and defense down low. These are two areas that he should be able to contribute to immediately. Indeed, I think these are the first two areas coaches emphasize for incoming Freshmen post players because they are largely individual and simple.

[kramerbr]

I think you make a good point about shotblocking, but the kid is 6-10/11 (depending on the source) and a top 100 recruit. I think it is far more appropriate to expect good rebounding from a freshman like this than to expect offensive production on a team with so many scoring threats. Our two biggest problems last year were rebounding and defense down low. These are two areas that he should be able to contribute to immediately. Indeed, I think these are the first two areas coaches emphasize for incoming Freshmen post players because they are largely individual and simple.

I couldn't agree more. Duke needs someone to come in and play low-post defense as well as grab some rebounds. They attempted to do that with Taylor but he was realistically a 6'6" wing. This has to be an upgrade getting someone who is 6'10". Scoring is the least of our worries and Miles will help plug any of those other needed areas.

I loved TK but welcome aboard Miles.

[devildeac]

After banning Duke> Ur Mom for what are obviously destructively negative posts (anyone who gets 2 infractions in their first 5 posts is a troll), I was all ready to delete his mean-spirited posts. But, I am going to leave them up because folks are already refuting his idiotic points so well. Props to ya'll for dealing with this by using logic and basketball sense.

--Jason "dude needs a new posting home" Evans

JE-did it take him/her 5 posts? His/her profile looks like it only took him/her 3 posts? What is the fastest banning record on the boards? 2 posts? 1 post? Kinda sad/pathetic to flame your way out so quickly and undiplomatically...

[Ignatius07]

JE-did it take him/her 5 posts? His/her profile looks like it only took him/her 3 posts? What is the fastest banning record on the boards? 2 posts? 1 post? Kinda sad/pathetic to flame your way out so quickly and undiplomatically...

Perhaps it's something of a badge of honor for trolls to be banned with under 5 posts.

Probably my biggest hope for Miles Plumlee is that he be a good rebounder. For reasons that escape me, Lance is just not a very good rebounder or shotblocker. I don't expect Miles to be the on-the-ball defender that Lance has improved to become, but if he can provide some weak-side shotblocking and rebounding, he could really provide some quality minutes. If he can run the floor and pass well, too, he might be closer to 10 than 5 minutes. Only time will tell...

Question: Has Miles become the new Olek in terms of widest range of opinions on how a recruit will fare his freshman year?

[VaDukie]

Question: Has Miles become the new Olek in terms of widest range of opinions on how a recruit will fare his freshman year?

Sure seems like it. Either way, I think Olek-Miles debates are set to become this summer's Scheyer-Gerald.

[BlueintheFace]

Sure seems like it. Either way, I think Olek-Miles debates are set to become this summer's Scheyer-Gerald.

Hey, its nice to have two guys that people think could be hit or miss. The chances of having at least one player being a hit is that much greater...

[Troublemaker]

I think it is far more appropriate to expect good rebounding from a freshman like this than to expect offensive production on a team with so many scoring threats. Our two biggest problems last year were rebounding and defense down low. These are two areas that he should be able to contribute to immediately. Indeed, I think these are the first two areas coaches emphasize for incoming Freshmen post players because they are largely individual and simple.


I couldn't agree more. Duke needs someone to come in and play low-post defense as well as grab some rebounds. They attempted to do that with Taylor but he was realistically a 6'6" wing. This has to be an upgrade getting someone who is 6'10". Scoring is the least of our worries and Miles will help plug any of those other needed areas.

I loved TK but welcome aboard Miles.

Actually, getting more inside scoring (whether by penetration or postup) is going to be very important for Duke. Our season didn't end because of defense but because we shot 5-22 from three. For Duke to "reach the next level," the offense has to become more consistent (along with other improvements, of course) and inside scoring is the key to that. Again, I don't expect a thin freshman to help that much with rebounding and post defense. I'm hoping he can block shots from the weakside, score opportunistically, and, from what I'm hearing about the game of the Plumlee boys, be a versatile, motion center. The Plumlee boys apparently are very nice fits for motion offense, and so yes, I do expect Miles and then Mason to be helpful on that end of the floor.

[Devilsfan]

Hope he's ready for ACC action. I don't believe Christ School played any Maitre Dei, Oak Hill, or De Mathas. That said either did Anthony Morrow and he turned out to be pretty good by his second or third year.

[kramerbr]

Hope he's ready for ACC action. I don't believe Christ School played any Maitre Dei, Oak Hill, or De Mathas. That said either did Anthony Morrow and he turned out to be pretty good by his second or third year.

1/21/08
http://www.christschool.org/athletics.php?subsection=Winter%20Sports&page=Basketball&selSquad=1

Plumlees did pretty well against one of the nations high school powerhouses.

[sandinmyshoes]

It's worrisome that Miles seems to want to play from the outside on offense, but encouraging that he is said to be capable of defending in the post. We could use some back to the basket offense, but I can live with jumpshooting post players if they can defend in the paint.

[wilko]

It's worrisome that Miles seems to want to play from the outside on offense, but encouraging that he is said to be capable of defending in the post. We could use some back to the basket offense, but I can live with jumpshooting post players if they can defend in the paint.

I'll be thrilled if he can run the floor, find the open man, box out and block shots. We dont need SPECTACULAR... just solid, competent post play is all we need for improvement.

Our strength is our wings.... so constant movement up and down the floor, our new approach to spacing. There will be opportunities for all our guys to get involved.

I'd like spectacular.. I'd like for Duke to win all their games by 30+ pts and metaphorically bite the noses off their opponents and spit it back in their faces just to see the expression before we crush their windpipe...

But for this team... filling some holes with big bodies.. (hopefully ones that can run with no foot issues) is a big win.

[Charles Wicker]

three point shooter???? Please, not another one. Please don't hype this guy up like we did Shav and McRob. Please. Let the guy surprise us. But not another Bob Gibbons, McDonalds AA, or Top 100 prospect who's afraid to bang inside. I have never seen this guy play, and I do wish the best for him, but please lets not hype this guy like we do the rest of our recruits. And lets not forget, we got eliminated in the second round.

All good players are not McDonalds All Americans, or yada, yada, yada. We need some blue-collar, Hillary Clinton type players, who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty on the inside and bang! Guys who are tough enough to finish strong, and play with their backs to the basket. The Heck with a team loaded with three point shooters. I know K knows what he's doing though. I'm just tired of all the hype of our recruits. If they were all that, why are we being eliminated by these mid-major schools?

Community, please don't take this as "trolling," whatever that means, or being overly critical. but I'm just tired of seeing us say the same things year in and year out. It's beginning to sound like a broken record. And our performance in the tourneys are as well. Diversify our player personnel, PLEASE.

[Bob Green]

We need some blue-collar, Hillary Clinton type players,

That's a disgusting thought:confused:

[Bob Green]

Not another three point shooter???? Please, not another one.

Okay, now for a serious response. Miles Plumlee is not a three point shooter. In his senior season of high school, he scored 491 points via 175 made 2-point shots, 18 made 3-point shots, and 87 made free throws.

http://www.maxpreps.com/FanPages/TeamFrame.mxp/AreaID-8807f3d8-47c7-46ef-b22e-182e0f3127be/Page-Stats/SchoolID-5939a639-4c82-4abb-800d-10db38f313d0/Boys_Varsity_Basketball_Winter_07-08/NorthCarolina

The link also contains Mason Plumlee's junior season scoring stats.

[gotham devil]

Okay, now for a serious response. Miles Plumlee is not a three point shooter. In his senior season of high school, he scored 491 points via 175 made 2-point shots, 18 made 3-point shots, and 87 made free throws.

http://www.maxpreps.com/FanPages/TeamFrame.mxp/AreaID-8807f3d8-47c7-46ef-b22e-182e0f3127be/Page-Stats/SchoolID-5939a639-4c82-4abb-800d-10db38f313d0/Boys_Varsity_Basketball_Winter_07-08/NorthCarolina

The link also contains Mason Plumlee's junior season scoring stats.

He isn't a three point shooter, but he is certainly a face up player who prefers working from the elbows.

[Bob Green]

He isn't a three point shooter, but he is certainly a face up player who prefers working from the elbows.

What do you mean by "the elbows?" I'm not familiar with that term.

[gotham devil]

What do you mean by "the elbows?" I'm not familiar with that term.

http://basketball.lifetips.com/cat/58414/basketball-terms/
Elbow:
The "elbow," another basketball term, is the intersection of the free throw line and the side of the "key." The key is also known as the free throw lane, the 12 foot area into which the basketball player cannot go when taking a free throw shot.


http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3014786

Elbow: Also called the “junction;” a term often used to indicate the area of the court where the free-throw line and side of the key meet.

[Jumbo]

three point shooter???? Please, not another one. Please don't hype this guy up like we did Shav and McRob. Please. Let the guy surprise us. But not another Bob Gibbons, McDonalds AA, or Top 100 prospect who's afraid to bang inside. I have never seen this guy play, and I do wish the best for him, but please lets not hype this guy like we do the rest of our recruits. And lets not forget, we got eliminated in the second round.

All good players are not McDonalds All Americans, or yada, yada, yada. We need some blue-collar, Hillary Clinton type players, who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty on the inside and bang! Guys who are tough enough to finish strong, and play with their backs to the basket. The Heck with a team loaded with three point shooters. I know K knows what he's doing though. I'm just tired of all the hype of our recruits. If they were all that, why are we being eliminated by these mid-major schools?

Community, please don't take this as "trolling," whatever that means, or being overly critical. but I'm just tired of seeing us say the same things year in and year out. It's beginning to sound like a broken record. And our performance in the tourneys are as well. Diversify our player personnel, PLEASE.

I think I can speak for much of the community when I say that I am tired of these types of posts from you. The number of times you've been corrected by other posters (combined with an five-point infraction) in a grand total of 28 posts is staggering. "Wisdom?" Hardly.

The above post is all over the place and little more than a rant. You go on and on about "too many three-point shooters," then admit that you've never seen Plumlee play. I have no idea what you're talking about in terms of reccruiting rankings -- there's a big difference between being a McD and a top-100 player, and this kid isn't coming in with anywhere close to the hype of Shav or McRoberts. We're well aware of the fact that Duke lost in the second round -- what on earth does that have to do with Miles Plumlee, who wasn't on that team? We're losing to mid-majors? Other than VCU, name a mid-major that has knocked off Duke recently.

I don't know if you're a troll, or if you just don't have a very good grasp on Duke hoops or basketball in general. But your posts are all over the place, and it might be wise for you to take several deep breaths before ranting again.

[Regenman]

Errr, I think the point is fairly clear.

We've had top 40 guys like Boateng (McD AA), Thompson (top 35), Sanders (McD AA), McRoberts (top 10), Burgess (top 10), Randolph (top 10), Thomas (top 20) not produce to the level of expectations (some not even closely). (and yes, we've had the Singlers, Boozer, Battier and Brand)

We don't even typically sniff at kids outside the top 75. We have two kids coming in Cyzk (78?) and Plumlee (outside the top 100) ranked outside the top 75.

These are some of the lowest rated kids we've seen at Duke so we should be tempering our expectations of them seeing meaningful playing time as freshmen, much less be significant defensive presences.

I'd like to be wrong, but seemingly every year for the last 6-7 years, someone hypes up our big men based on pick-up games and then we're disappointed. I'd rather have lower expectations be exceeded (which was why this past year was actually fun for a change).

The "trolling" part is really linking to Hillary Clinton and blue collar. A wealthy Wellesley and Yale woman is blue collar? You really believe the whiskey swilling and gun shooting BS? More like the misguided--a gas tax holiday that takes funds from highway repair while encouraging driving. /golfclap

[Uncle Drew]

Okay after a year of fretting over lack of size we get a 6'10+ guy who is athletic to fall in our laps for the very next season. And someone has to go negative about it suggesting Duke should have saved the scholorship for someone else in another class. Why not John Riek? Sorry had to throw that one in there. Save a scholorship for whom, names please. I mean would I like this guy to have more beef on him to help down low, sure. But Rome wasn't built in a day, and Hulk Hogan used to be a 95lb weakling. Give it time, and I think that's the biggest point here....with the Plumlees we will probably get time, as in four years. Weight can always be added unless they have a tape worm, nobody has yet to add height once the guy is done growing.

Look at it this way, with all the height a certain local school has and will have the next few years it's good to lock some up for Duke. I do have one question for the recruiting experts, if someone can answer it. Playing in your average public highschools these days won't pit you against the highest tallent on a regular basis. Playing in a private highschool, particularly a Christian school even less. (yes I know Detroit Country Day produced a couple of decent players.) So I imagine it's rather hard to rate them and compare them to their fellow recuits. Did / are / will any of the Plumlees play AAU ball or in any particular tournaments and if so how did they do? And I'm the only one around here allowed to be a pessimist, everyone else is supposed to be perky and optimistic to offset my bad attitude.

[JasonEvans]

The "trolling" part is really linking to Hillary Clinton and blue collar. A wealthy Wellesley and Yale woman is blue collar? You really believe the whiskey swilling and gun shooting BS? More like the misguided--a gas tax holiday that takes funds from highway repair while encouraging driving.

Folks, lets be exceedingly careful about turning this conversation into something that belongs on the Public Policy board. I have no idea what Charles Wicker was thinking with his "Hillary Clinton type player" reference. Frankly, I have no idea what Charles is thinking after reading almost all his posts. Still, I don't think it would be appropriate for us to have a discussion of what a "Hillary Clinton type player" is on this board at this time. Ok?

One exception-- I do think it would be ok for Charles to explain what he meant by that term. Whew, I really want to know the thought process that went into that one!

--Jason "Charles, hope it does not seem like we are piling on-- but, dude, you gotta think a bit more before you post" Evans

[RelativeWays]

I haven't checked DBR in a couple of days so I was surprised to read the headline "Plumlee to Duke" they were talking about Miles, not Mason.

[Bob Green]

Did / are / will any of the Plumlees play AAU ball or in any particular tournaments and if so how did they do?

Mason Plumlee plays AAU ball for the Indiana Elite One 17U team. He was the MVP of the Pittsburgh Jam Fest held 18-20 April 2008. He is playing this weekend at the Jayhawk Invitational in Lawrence, Kansas.

[roywhite]

FWIW, Scout.com ranks (all seniors, not by position) our incoming players:

Elliot Williams 14
Miles Plumlee 58
Olek Czyz 87

Rivals.com

Elliot Williams 16
Miles Plumlee 101
Olek Czyz 113

There are other rankings sources, but that gives you the idea.

[RelativeWays]

I'm not sure why people here are complaining about player rankings when after the WVU game, there were a lot of people whining why didn't Duke pursue someone like that Alexander kid who wasn't highly ranked either.

Miles is a good edition and can run pretty well for a player at 6'10 so he can mesh with our fast break style offense well. Nobody needs him or Olek to be a savior, 28-6 teams don't need saviors, they just need players to step up and fill in some weak spots. If Duke can improve its rebounding and put-backs between our 4 post players, then we're going to be a better team that last season.

[weezie]

I'm not sure why people here are complaining about player rankings when after the WVU game, there were a lot of people whining why didn't Duke pursue someone like that Alexander kid who wasn't highly ranked either.



Man, that is an EXCELLENT point! Spot on.

[El_Diablo]

We need some blue-collar, Hillary Clinton type players, who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty on the inside and bang!

I think he's just trying to say that he wants someone willing to do the "dirty" work to get the job done in the paint.

I'm not sure why he connects Hillary with "blue-collar," though. Perhaps a more apt example would be Boozer, Lambier, or Dennis Rodman. You know, tough guys who work hard to defend and rebound. Although I'm pretty sure Rodman's collar was more neon green, not blue...:D

[dkbaseball]

I'm not sure why people here are complaining about player rankings when after the WVU game, there were a lot of people whining why didn't Duke pursue someone like that Alexander kid who wasn't highly ranked either.

Czyz reminds me quite a bit of Alexander. The fixation on rankings is nuts. Actually, I'm very pleased when I see Duke sign players who aren't McD's AA types. It means the coaches are out there beating the bushes and making full use of their player evaluation skills, rather than just signing whatever McDs have good enough grades to get into Duke. There are plenty of not-so-highly-rated prospects that turn out to be terrific college players. And they often have one big advantage over the McDs -- coming into school hungry and with no sense of entitlement.

[El_Diablo]

On scout.com, Al Horford was the 12th-ranked PF for 2004, Joakim Noah was 18th, and Jeff Green was 19th. They turned out to be pretty decent players. Miles Plumlee is currently ranked 17th. I'm not trying to compare Miles to those three...I'm just going to take the rankings with a grain of salt and be glad that we have another big body to work with next year.

Now if only he can hit the weight room and a couple all-you-can-eat buffets...

[Uncle Drew]

Mason Plumlee plays AAU ball for the Indiana Elite One 17U team. He was the MVP of the Pittsburgh Jam Fest held 18-20 April 2008. He is playing this weekend at the Jayhawk Invitational in Lawrence, Kansas.

Thank you Bob, on the spot as usual.

[Troublemaker]

Czyz reminds me quite a bit of Alexander. The fixation on rankings is nuts. Actually, I'm very pleased when I see Duke sign players who aren't McD's AA types. It means the coaches are out there beating the bushes and making full use of their player evaluation skills, rather than just signing whatever McDs have good enough grades to get into Duke. There are plenty of not-so-highly-rated prospects that turn out to be terrific college players. And they often have one big advantage over the McDs -- coming into school hungry and with no sense of entitlement.

I agree. While I think it's important not to heap expectations on incoming recruits to produce right away and allow them to be the wide-eyed 18-yr-old freshmen that they are in most cases, that does NOT mean we aren't getting talented players here. Miles, by all accounts, is very athletic in a 6'10" body, and that kind of upside is rare and a good thing to have. And if he has perimeter skills, that's a positive, not a negative. No motion coach will ever scoff at getting a 6'10" guy that can faceup, shoot, and drive. He might not be a "power post player," but every Duke fan should know that Duke can be a productive haven for versatile centers.

[DukieInBrasil]

we´ll now have 6 guys in the post, basically 2 positions. that´s a lot of PT to manage and egos to massage. But one thing popped into my head. Even though not all 6 will get the PT they want there will mos def be a big benefit for Duke in at least this way: practice.
Before the Plumlee commit, we had 5, in other words there would be uneven matchups in practice. LT would be guarding Z, Czyz probably vs. Singler and McClure to rotate. This would leave Z practicing against much smaller LT and therefore not getting the practice he needs. LT also would be guarding a much bigger guy and not getting the practice he needs at using his quickness, but instead practicing power moves. And Dave would kinda be the odd man out.
But now we have a whole new set of matchups, and ones that actually benefit the players. 7ft Z can now practice against 6´10 Plumlee, Singler can bang it out against Czyz and LT can match up with McClure. I see this as very beneficial for the players´development and therefore the team. I have never seen Czyz or Plumlee play, but i can imagine that they will both be receiving a derth of PT, as there are now 12 scholarship guys on the roster.

[Edouble]

FWIW, Scout.com ranks (all seniors, not by position) our incoming players:

Elliot Williams 14
Miles Plumlee 58
Olek Czyz 87

Rivals.com

Elliot Williams 16
Miles Plumlee 101
Olek Czyz 113

There are other rankings sources, but that gives you the idea.

I appreciate this information. I can't say it gives me any idea other than the idea that there's no steadfast consensus on Miles Plumlee. 58 and 101 are kind of far apart.

In response to some of the other posts, I, too, am not concerned about where a player is ranked. I remember the Maryland team that won the national championship did not have a McDonald's AA among its starting five. Although this is an anomoly somewhat, there are always good players out there (like Alexander) that are not ranked in the top 20. The player rankings disappear once the ball is tipped. Just ask VCU.

A more important point, maybe, is what kind of a team player is Miles Plumlee? We obviously need a guy to do some dirty work (blue collar or whatever you want to call it), namely get rebounds and play defense, so that Kyle can do his thing without feeling completely beaten down. Guys like Cwell and Shane have been this kind of player in just their freshman year because they had toughness and desire. Although those two eventually became ACC POYs, at that point in their career it was not clear that they would turn out to be that good judging by the kind of basketball they were playing. They later got the chance to show the full scope of their games and put up a lot of shots, etc.,etc.

I don't know what the ceiling is on Miles' basketball talent, but I think that his immediate impact on the court next year has mostly to do with toughness, and character. It's long been said that rebounding is mostly about desire. Maybe as a non-McDonalds AA showing up on campus at (relatively) the last minute, Miles will have a little more fire in his gut because of this. Or maybe he just does naturally. It's pretty obvious what we need from him, and I'd say his attitude and toughness is key in whether or not it's available for the team next season.

[fogey]

Miles Plumlee and Duke are a great fit. The guy has post moves, is athletic, and is big enough to hold his own down low. He has a great upside, and in four years at Duke will prove to be a valuable team member. I believe he will make an immediate contribution and bring needed balance to our roster. He will also help younger brother Mason with adjustment to DU and the college game.

Great get for Duke, props to K and staff.

[nyr484]

The player rankings disappear once the ball is tipped.

I agree with you, but I would take it even further: the player rankings are complete BS! How do you think scout or rivals come up with their top 150. They look at which players are being selected by power schools, which players are playing in which tournaments, etc. In other words, they look at hype. The rankings are a measure of how much hype a player is getting. While this is a decent indicator of expectations, it's completely based on the collective efforts of people who are not working together (college coaches). That's why you end up with some players in the top 20 who are complete busts (overhyped), and some players nowhere near the top 100 who are college studs (underhyped i.e. Stephen Curry).

Speaking of McD's AA's, how do you think they pick their team? It's based on hype too. When Duke gets involved in a player's recruiting, it gives them more credibility and boosts their ranking. That, in turn, gives them a better chance of being a McD AA. That's why Duke ends up with so many.

As an aside, this is also why so many high school players say they are thinking Duke when they most likely aren't. (Derrick Favors, Jamil Wilson). It's like the Yankees effect when a free agent's value is bumped up b/c the Yankees are involved in the negotations. I wonder if Watzone has noticed this...

[Channing]

I agree with you, but I would take it even further: the player rankings are complete BS! How do you think scout or rivals come up with their top 150. They look at which players are being selected by power schools, which players are playing in which tournaments, etc. In other words, they look at hype. The rankings are a measure of how much hype a player is getting. While this is a decent indicator of expectations, it's completely based on the collective efforts of people who are not working together (college coaches). That's why you end up with some players in the top 20 who are complete busts (overhyped), and some players nowhere near the top 100 who are college studs (underhyped i.e. Stephen Curry).

Speaking of McD's AA's, how do you think they pick their team? It's based on hype too. When Duke gets involved in a player's recruiting, it gives them more credibility and boosts their ranking. That, in turn, gives them a better chance of being a McD AA. That's why Duke ends up with so many.

As an aside, this is also why so many high school players say they are thinking Duke when they most likely aren't. (Derrick Favors, Jamil Wilson). It's like the Yankees effect when a free agent's value is bumped up b/c the Yankees are involved in the negotations. I wonder if Watzone has noticed this...

I'd have to say this is pretty inaccurate. There is a lot of hype, but with all of the AAU tournaments and exposure high school kids get, recruiting and recruiting information has become a big business. Sure, there are some kids that blossom (maybe even of kids that blossom), but for the most part, the rankings, especially at the top (i.e. top 15) are pretty accurate. These are the kids that are the best, while they are in high school. There was another thread a few weeks back showing how Duke recruiting a kid does not actually boost their rankings (at least not anymore - it might have). If Duke recruitment leads to one becoming a McD AA, why wasn't Zoubek an AA? Derrick Favors was the number one recruit in his class before his name and Duke were connected (at least publicly).

Bear in mind, that just as the NBA game is different from college, high school is different from college. Someone who dominated at the HS level may not dominate at the college level - but that doesnt mean he isnt one of the highest ranked prospects in a class (paging Neil Fingleton).

I would venture to say that you could ask ANY coach at any program (other than maybe Duke, UNC, KU et al that can get more in the top 5 or top 10) in the country if he would take a class with a top 5 kid, a top 10 kid, and a top 15 kid or he could go out and evaluate players on his own and look for the "diamond in the rough" (assuming timing constraints are no issue) - they will all take the former option.

[devildeac]

Mason Plumlee plays AAU ball for the Indiana Elite One 17U team. He was the MVP of the Pittsburgh Jam Fest held 18-20 April 2008. He is playing this weekend at the Jayhawk Invitational in Lawrence, Kansas.

Bob,

You have to be one of the most amazing posters on this board. I have trouble keeping up with Duke sports from 30 miles away and you post this kind of stuff from thousands of miles and 12 time zones away. Simply astounding.

[roywhite]

I'd have to say this is pretty inaccurate. There is a lot of hype, but with all of the AAU tournaments and exposure high school kids get, recruiting and recruiting information has become a big business. Sure, there are some kids that blossom (maybe even of kids that blossom), but for the most part, the rankings, especially at the top (i.e. top 15) are pretty accurate. These are the kids that are the best, while they are in high school. There was another thread a few weeks back showing how Duke recruiting a kid does not actually boost their rankings (at least not anymore - it might have). If Duke recruitment leads to one becoming a McD AA, why wasn't Zoubek an AA? Derrick Favors was the number one recruit in his class before his name and Duke were connected (at least publicly).


Player evaluation is inexact, but I think the gurus ratings or a consensus of ratings is a pretty good way to compare players. While there can be considerable variation on an individual's college performance vs his ranking, these ratings seem to hold up well in the aggregate; example, UCLA, UNC, and Duke recruit many of the Top 50 kids and have consistently good talent levels.

It is difficult to project what a 16-17 year old will be like at age 20-22 (Look at the NFL draft; there are 21-23 year old 1st rounders that don't make a good transition to the pros). Read an interesting article by Dave Telep, one of the better recruiting guys IMO, who said there was a positive correlation of success when a prospect was climbinng in the rankings; example, rated #60 as a junior, and #20 by the time he leaves HS---such players seem to do well, even better than someone who was ranked approx. #20 as a junior and a senior. Call it the "late bloomer" effect.

So, one thing I like about Czyz and both Plumlees is that they seem to be improving in the rankings. And the Duke coaches like them. I look forward to Olek and the Plumlees being good players.

[Ignatius07]

Player evaluation is inexact, but I think the gurus ratings or a consensus of ratings is a pretty good way to compare players. While there can be considerable variation on an individual's college performance vs his ranking, these ratings seem to hold up well in the aggregate; example, UCLA, UNC, and Duke recruit many of the Top 50 kids and have consistently good talent levels.

It is difficult to project what a 16-17 year old will be like at age 20-22 (Look at the NFL draft; there are 21-23 year old 1st rounders that don't make a good transition to the pros). Read an interesting article by Dave Telep, one of the better recruiting guys IMO, who said there was a positive correlation of success when a prospect was climbinng in the rankings; example, rated #60 as a junior, and #20 by the time he leaves HS---such players seem to do well, even better than someone who was ranked approx. #20 as a junior and a senior. Call it the "late bloomer" effect.

So, one thing I like about Czyz and both Plumlees is that they seem to be improving in the rankings. And the Duke coaches like them. I look forward to Olek and the Plumlees being good players.

Elliot Williams was a tremendous late-riser as well. Hopefully this augurs good things for him!

[Charles Wicker]

for my individual creativity of expression. Just because it's different from yours community, doesn't mean its deficient. Yes I did receive an infraction, and based upon the spirit I strive to possess, I will forgoe future posts and thoughts about this basketball program. But to my defense; I too hardly believe Hillary Clinton is a "blue collar" type, I was basing that description upon the media's idea that she, not Obama appeals to that type.

OK, politics aside. I believe one poster understood my, "blue collar analogy. It was simply meant to say that I would like us, (or you'll, because honestly I do feel like an outsider now) to have players tough and gritty enough to do the banging, inside dirty work in the paint. We seem to get players who don't possess the physical toughness and agressiveness on the inside.

Lastly, this stifling, and critiquing of a persons individual creativity of expression is a little dissapointing. I too have loved, supported and enjoyed DBB for well over 30 years. If I have an opinion, why not try and understand where I'm coming from, as opposed to viewing it as, crazy, ranting, trolling or whatever. But because I'm a peaceful spirit, I will conclude by saying God Bless those who think my trolling, ranting, critical statements are out of line. Good luck to you next season.

Thanks DBR for some interesting discussions!

God Bless you all

[Bob Green]

Bob,

You have to be one of the most amazing posters on this board. I have trouble keeping up with Duke sports from 30 miles away and you post this kind of stuff from thousands of miles and 12 time zones away. Simply astounding.

Thanks for the compliment!

[eddiehaskell]

Hopefully he can make an impact next year. I'd like to see him put on 10 lbs by next season. :D 6'10 235lbs sounds good. :D

With Miles, E. Williams, Olek, a healthy Thomas, Marty, Henderson and Zoubek.....I'm starting to think this just might be a top-5 team next year!!!

[davekay1971]

Hopefully he can make an impact next year. I'd like to see him put on 10 lbs by next season. :D 6'10 235lbs sounds good. :D

With Miles, E. Williams, Olek, a healthy Thomas, Marty, Henderson and Zoubek.....I'm starting to think this just might be a top-5 team next year!!!

I agree, though I've been thinking Duke has the potential to be a top-5 team (hopefully in early April, as well as in mid February) next year. Whether or not Plumlee is going to be big, strong, and aggressive enough to bang for post points and rebounds or not remains to be seen. But he certainly seems to have both the body and the skills to at least contribute.

We'll probably still have just one true 5 in Zoubs, and hopefully the poor guy's foot won't set him back too much. Bottom line, I doubt we'll have a team that's going to excel in a grinding, pound-it-into-the-post kind of game. But we'll at least hold our own a little better in the paint.

Add that to a very experienced, talented, and cohesive guard and wing game, and we'll be able to pressure on the defensive end, run the court, and create multiple looks on offense, even in the half court.

Looking forward to hoops season :)

[jimsumner]

"As an aside, this is also why so many high school players say they are thinking Duke when they most likely aren't. (Derrick Favors, Jamil Wilson)."

Favors is the consensus number one player in his class. Exactly how does it enhance his reputation to mention Duke? Wilson, btw, is visiting Duke this spring, which suggests that his interest level in Duke is genuine.

[devildeac]

Thanks for the compliment!

You are indeed quite welcome.

[moonpie23]

Exactly how does it enhance his reputation to mention Duke?


for the same reason he would mention UNC, or kansas, or texas, or ucla.....duke is a top notch program.

nuff said.

[jimsumner]

I think you're missing the point. Favors is the consensus number one player in the class. He's a cinch prep All-America and could go to any school in the country. How can you move up from number one?

Sure, some people claim to be recruited by Duke when neither party is really interested but Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, O.J. Mayo, Michael Beasley, and countless others have managed to become pretty well-known prepsters without gratuitously throwing in Duke or anybody else.

[MChambers]

I agree, though I've been thinking Duke has the potential to be a top-5 team (hopefully in early April, as well as in mid February) next year. Whether or not Plumlee is going to be big, strong, and aggressive enough to bang for post points and rebounds or not remains to be seen. But he certainly seems to have both the body and the skills to at least contribute.

We'll probably still have just one true 5 in Zoubs, and hopefully the poor guy's foot won't set him back too much. Bottom line, I doubt we'll have a team that's going to excel in a grinding, pound-it-into-the-post kind of game. But we'll at least hold our own a little better in the paint.

Add that to a very experienced, talented, and cohesive guard and wing game, and we'll be able to pressure on the defensive end, run the court, and create multiple looks on offense, even in the half court.

Looking forward to hoops season :)

Not sure what you mean by only one true 5, unless you mean that Miles Plumlee isn't a low post scorer or isn't an NBA 5. 6'10" 230 lbs is big by college standards. Not many college 4s are that big.

I agree that it remains to be seen how much help he'll be next year, because he's an untested freshman. But if he is good enough to play, he'll give us a pretty big body.

[91.92.01DUKE]

What is the manner in which prospects like Miles are evaluated? If only one of his games was watched by recruiting sites, then he may be streaky (explains disparity in rankings between sites). Perhaps this will hold true at Duke. If so then he may not be as helpful as many seem to anticipate.

[Uncle Drew]

Last edited by Jumbo : Today at 10:51 AM. Reason: Took out the following after he ignored Jason's directive: [I]We need some blue-collar, Hillary Clinton type players, who are


I appreciate it, truly. My fingers have terrets Jumbo and Jason. When I read something (yes even something I typed) that borders on insanity they have to respond.

[Jim3k]

What is the manner in which prospects like Miles are evaluated? If only one of his games was watched by recruiting sites, then he may be streaky (explains disparity in rankings between sites). Perhaps this will hold true at Duke. If so then he may not be as helpful as many seem to anticipate.

For that, you will have to go to the player evaluations sites -- unfortunately, they are pay sites. Some folks here do join those sites and do pass ranking information on if it is public information, but folks here do not do what you are asking.

Such sites are rivals.com and scout.com and others you can Google for.

[JasonEvans]

What is the manner in which prospects like Miles are evaluated? If only one of his games was watched by recruiting sites, then he may be streaky (explains disparity in rankings between sites). Perhaps this will hold true at Duke. If so then he may not be as helpful as many seem to anticipate.

Almost all of the top 200 or so kids play in numerous prominent AAU and High School tournaments that allow the rankings services to see them play multiple times in just a few days. It is not a case where kids are rated based on one or two high school games against mostly overmatched opponents. Additionally, top players go to summer camps that showcase their skills and allow coaches/recruiting gurus to see them in practice too.

The major recruting services certainly factor more than 3 or 4 performances into their rankings. I would imagine that a kid who consistently plays well gets a lot more credit from them than one who is very up-and-down.

--Jason "the recruiting gurus I trust the most are the Duke coaching staff" Evans

[davekay1971]

I don't understand the anxiety over the exact rankings numbers. First of all, these are 15, 16, and 17 year old kids, and it's difficult at baseline to know what kind of college players they're going to be. There is still so much development (physically, in skill sets, mentally, emotionally, etc) that goes on from year to year with each of these kids. All the rankings can say is: here's about where this kid is now, today, in terms of talent, skills, and potential. The correlation to where that kid will be 2, 3, or 4 years in the future is going to be limited.

It seems to me the best way to look at the rankings is in groups - kids that are phenomenally talented and gifted and almost certainly will excel at the next level (the top 20-30 kids), kids that are likely to succeed at the next level, and kids that need some work, but certainly have the potential to succeed. Within that framework, it doesn't much matter if Plumlee is ranked number 50 or number 100 - clearly the scouts are telling us that he's got physical gifts, skills, and potential to be a strong college player. I'll take that.

[Franzez]

With us landing Miles Plumlee who's a 6'10 PF(Anybody have a scouting report on him?)

Could this allow us to play Singler and Thomas at SF barring injuries to Z or Miles.I think Singler would work better at SF since he played out of position last year at both PF and sometimes at C but with him at SF I think we will definetly be able to matchup with teams who don't use 3 Guards.

I still believe Lance Thomas could become a factor on this team,from the stuff I remember seeing him do in high school I know hes capable of doing more than providing size and collecting a few putbacks and rebounds.

[roywhite]

I could see lineups where Singler is on the floor along with, say, Zoubs and Plumlee, though doubt that would be for long periods of time. As to a lineup where Lance Thomas is the third big, don't see it---his ball handling and shooting, so far, wouldn't justify that.

The addition of Czyz and Plumlee should pay dividends in practice, and in some lineup flexibility, with less defensive burden for Kyle in particular. The other possibility is that either Czyz or Plumlee would happen to be better than expected and get major minutes.

[Hector Vector]

Zero chance that LT would be SF (that would mean a lineup with other spots being occupied by some combo of Z, the OC, or Plumlee). K would never go with that little perimeter skill on the court. Not impossible that Kyle would play some SF alongside two of those mentioned above, but I would be happy if I knew that Kyle was regularly playing the 4, as opposed to the 5.

There is a reasonably good chance that 5 of Duke's six best players will be guards: Henderson, Scheyer, Paulus, Smith, E. Williams. I would expect K would want to get 3 of them on the court most of the time. Henderson will probably play 32-34 mpg if healthy, almost entirely at SF.

[CDu]

With us landing Miles Plumlee who's a 6'10 PF(Anybody have a scouting report on him?)

Could this allow us to play Singler and Thomas at SF barring injuries to Z or Miles.I think Singler would work better at SF since he played out of position last year at both PF and sometimes at C but with him at SF I think we will definetly be able to matchup with teams who don't use 3 Guards.

I still believe Lance Thomas could become a factor on this team,from the stuff I remember seeing him do in high school I know hes capable of doing more than providing size and collecting a few putbacks and rebounds.

We COULD do that, but why would we? First, Singler wasn't out of position at PF. That is his position in college. At PF in college, he's a HUGE asset because he can defend most college PFs and yet most college PFs can't defend him. At SF, he's less of an asset. Further, if we did move Thomas to PF and Singler to SF then either Henderson or Scheyer (two of our three best players) would have to go out of the game.

If Plumlee is great, then he may push Thomas to the bench as the primary backup at both the "4" and "5" spots (though I doubt this happens). Or maybe Plumlee backs up at the "5" and Thomas starts but serves as the primary backup at the "4" as well. And if Plumlee just a typical freshman and takes time adjusting to the college game, then he adds depth to the core of players who can play the "5" spot adequately, and strengthens the depth behind Singler at the "4" spot. And if nothing else, Plumlee adds practice depth to help push Thomas, Zoubek, and Singler to be better players. But Plumlee is not going to push Singler to the "3" spot. It's just not in the best interest of the team, because it means essentially replacing Henderson or Scheyer with Plumlee.

[roywhite]

Zero chance that LT would be SF (that would mean a lineup with other spots being occupied by some combo of Z, the OC, or Plumlee). K would never go with that little perimeter skill on the court. Not impossible that Kyle would play some SF alongside two of those mentioned above, but I would be happy if I knew that Kyle was regularly playing the 4, as opposed to the 5.

There is a reasonably good chance that 5 of Duke's six best players will be guards: Henderson, Scheyer, Paulus, Smith, E. Williams. I would expect K would want to get 3 of them on the court most of the time. Henderson will probably play 32-34 mpg if healthy, almost entirely at SF.

I generally agree, though I would be surprised to see GH log that many minutes. Last year, Henderson, Scheyer, Paulus, and Singler all averaged between 26-28 minutes per game, with GH being low man in that group with 26.2 minutes per game. Granted, his injury was a factor, but stamina was a major concern in his freshman year, and at least a consideration last year.

Seems possible to me that no player will exceed 30 minutes per game on average.

[wilson]

I generally agree, though I would be surprised to see GH log that many minutes. Last year, Henderson, Scheyer, Paulus, and Singler all averaged between 26-28 minutes per game, with GH being low man in that group with 26.2 minutes per game. Granted, his injury was a factor, but stamina was a major concern in his freshman year, and at least a consideration last year.

Seems possible to me that no player will exceed 30 minutes per game on average.

I'd be shocked if Greg doesn't average 30+. He may be the only one, though.

[CDu]

I'd be shocked if Greg doesn't average 30+. He may be the only one, though.

I'll actually be fairly surprised if Paulus DOES average 30+ mpg next year. He only averaged 27.7 mpg this year, and that was for a team that only had a freshman combo guard as his backup. Next year, with a more experienced Smith and Scheyer available as well, I don't think you'll see Paulus increase his minutes substantially.

[Hector Vector]

I think Henderson's minutes last year were a product of (1) his injuries; (2) K effort to use more depth; and (3) presence of wing D. Nelson with somewhat similar skill set. With Nelson gone, there is really no replacement for Gerald in terms of wing athleticism, so I think he will be kept on the floor more.

I think the best scenario for this team is if Singler and Henderson combine for about 65 minutes and 33-35 pts per game, which would put them at all-ACC and possibly AA status. Depth is good and important, but we need these two to step up and be stars to be FF level team.

[Classof06]

I'll actually be fairly surprised if Paulus DOES average 30+ mpg next year. He only averaged 27.7 mpg this year, and that was for a team that only had a freshman combo guard as his backup. Next year, with a more experienced Smith and Scheyer available as well, I don't think you'll see Paulus increase his minutes substantially.

Agreed. I also think it's interesting that a lot of people assume Lance Thomas is going to log a certain number of minutes. For this first time in his career, Lance is going to have multiple competitors for his minutes in Olek Czyz and Miles Plumlee. His freshman year, it was him and McRoberts. His sophomore year, with Zoubek sidelined for the majority of the year, it was him and Singler. Coming into next season, Singler's basically (and justifiably) guaranteed his minutes and I'm also assuming/crossing my fingers than Zoubek can make it through the season healthy.

When you factor all of this in and consider Lance's production last year, I don't see how anyone can assume Lance Thomas will play substantial minutes. It's certainly a possibility but far from a given.

[CDu]

Agreed. I also think it's interesting that a lot of people assume Lance Thomas is going to log a certain number of minutes. For this first time in his career, Lance is going to have multiple competitors for his minutes in Olek Czyz and Miles Plumlee. His freshman year, it was him and McRoberts. His sophomore year, with Zoubek sidelined for the majority of the year, it was him and Singler. Coming into next season, Singler's basically (and justifiably) guaranteed his minutes and I'm also assuming/crossing my fingers than Zoubek can make it through the season healthy.

When you factor all of this in and consider Lance's production last year, I don't see how anyone can assume Lance Thomas will play substantial minutes. It's certainly a possibility but far from a given.

Those are fair points. One could also look at it another way: for the first time in his career, Thomas has the opportunity to go up against athletic opposition as a member of the starting rotation in practice. As a freshman and sophomore, he either had to play an undersized or underathletic opponent or he had to play on the second team. Now, he'll have two reasonably big guys with good athleticism to compete with in practice.

I agree though that at this point it's just not at all clear how the minutes inside will play out.

[sagegrouse]

Agreed. I also think it's interesting that a lot of people assume Lance Thomas is going to log a certain number of minutes. For this first time in his career, Lance is going to have multiple competitors for his minutes in Olek Czyz and Miles Plumlee. His freshman year, it was him and McRoberts. His sophomore year, with Zoubek sidelined for the majority of the year, it was him and Singler. Coming into next season, Singler's basically (and justifiably) guaranteed his minutes and I'm also assuming/crossing my fingers than Zoubek can make it through the season healthy.

When you factor all of this in and consider Lance's production last year, I don't see how anyone can assume Lance Thomas will play substantial minutes. It's certainly a possibility but far from a given.

Lets see.... Lance averaged 18-19 MPG this past year. Moreover, he was a much better player as a soph than as a freshman. I expect him to take another step forward next year.

So, is it your opinon that an improving Lance is likely to be replaced in the line-up by someone who played behind him for two years and/or a freshman who has potential but is a project?

Except for the replacements caused by the Dawkins and Alarie class, how many times has a starter lost his job at Duke over the summer? (No, Scheyer doesn't count!) Greg Koubek in 1990-1991 perhaps? Doesn't happen often.


sagegrouse

[Ignatius07]

I think Henderson's minutes last year were a product of (1) his injuries; (2) K effort to use more depth; and (3) presence of wing D. Nelson with somewhat similar skill set. With Nelson gone, there is really no replacement for Gerald in terms of wing athleticism, so I think he will be kept on the floor more.

I think the best scenario for this team is if Singler and Henderson combine for about 65 minutes and 33-35 pts per game, which would put them at all-ACC and possibly AA status. Depth is good and important, but we need these two to step up and be stars to be FF level team.

In terms of wing athleticism, Elliot Williams is one in the true sense of the word. Obviously he is not nearly as strong as Nelson (and likely won't be as good a defender, at least not initially), but he is probably a bit more explosive.

That said, your point(s) are well taken. If Singler and Henderson are not both All-ACC, we could be in trouble (unless one is pushed off by someone like Scheyer). By that I mean both of those guys clearly is among the top-15 players in the ACC, in my opinion, and need to play like it for Duke to be successful.

[jimsumner]

I agree that Lance will play major minutes next season and has a good chance to start.

But the idea that once a starter, always a starter isn't completely accurate. During K's tenure a number of players have lost starting positions. A list would include Allan Williams, Mike Tissaw, Doug McNeely, Greg Wendt, Marty Nessley, John Smith, Alaa Abdelnaby, Chris Collins, Greg Newton, Ricky Price, Roshown McLeod, Taymon Domzalski, Chris Burgess, Shavlik Randolph, Daniel Ewing, and David McLure.

Sometimes it was injuries, sometimes it was ineffectiveness, sometimes someone just plain better came along. Some regained starting roles, others remained valued reserves, several dropped off the side of the planet to the place where the monsters live. But nobody is grandfathered into a starting spot, even PT and they darn well know it.

[bhd28]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2008-King-James-Classic-Top-Big-Men/

[CDu]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2008-King-James-Classic-Top-Big-Men/

That's not the most glowing scouting report in terms of post play. As I read it, all I could think about was a cross between McRoberts and Randolph, or maybe a McRoberts/Singler combination. And then it closed with a reference to both players.

If that is accurate, then it doesn't sound like Plumlee and Singler would work all that well together, as neither is a post player.

[Karl Beem]

That's not the most glowing scouting report in terms of post play. As I read it, all I could think about was a cross between McRoberts and Randolph, or maybe a McRoberts/Singler combination. And then it closed with a reference to both players.

If that is accurate, then it doesn't sound like Plumlee and Singler would work all that well together, as neither is a post player.

Accurate? They're twits.

[roywhite]

I think Henderson's minutes last year were a product of (1) his injuries; (2) K effort to use more depth; and (3) presence of wing D. Nelson with somewhat similar skill set. With Nelson gone, there is really no replacement for Gerald in terms of wing athleticism, so I think he will be kept on the floor more.

I think the best scenario for this team is if Singler and Henderson combine for about 65 minutes and 33-35 pts per game, which would put them at all-ACC and possibly AA status. Depth is good and important, but we need these two to step up and be stars to be FF level team.

To be fair, we should probably differentiate between minutes per game for a season average, and minutes in close, competitive contests. The roster will have 12 scholarship players and good overall talent (who are players 10-12 for example?), so we should see some contests decided early and minutes pretty well spread out.

But we could need up to 35 minutes or more from Kyle and GH in some games; they are potential All-ACC and All-America performers, who can make a difference between winning and losing. So I think we are in general agreement.

[Bluedawg]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2008-King-James-Classic-Top-Big-Men/

I find this a bit troublesome....


Though Mason has skills that most players his height don’t possess, he owns very little in terms of a back to the basket game. Every time he received the ball within 8 feet of the rim he would turn and face, looking incredibly uncomfortable even when facing that close. Likewise he will have to vastly improve upon his strength if he hopes to compete on the blocks in the ACC, standing far too weak presently to fight in the trenches down low.

[Saratoga2]

I think Henderson's minutes last year were a product of (1) his injuries; (2) K effort to use more depth; and (3) presence of wing D. Nelson with somewhat similar skill set. With Nelson gone, there is really no replacement for Gerald in terms of wing athleticism, so I think he will be kept on the floor more.

I think the best scenario for this team is if Singler and Henderson combine for about 65 minutes and 33-35 pts per game, which would put them at all-ACC and possibly AA status. Depth is good and important, but we need these two to step up and be stars to be FF level team.


What about Williams. He appears to be very athletic when I saw him and he is about the same height, although not as strong.

[Ignatius07]

Troublesome, but not entirely shocking. I mean, we knew this when he committed, right? He has a year left in HS and I am sure this is something he will work on, but we knew all along that Plumlee wasn't a 5.

[Duvall]

That's not the most glowing scouting report in terms of post play. As I read it, all I could think about was a cross between McRoberts and Randolph, or maybe a McRoberts/Singler combination. And then it closed with a reference to both players.

If that is accurate, then it doesn't sound like Plumlee and Singler would work all that well together, as neither is a post player.

I have seen no Plumlee play, but it's generally been my impression that Mason Plumlee should be viewed as an understudy/replacement for Singler, not a complement. Miles is another matter.

[roywhite]

Interesting note....Miles jumped 6'9" to win his conference championship on Friday May 9. That's an excellent performance for a high school guy.

The Duke school record is 6'10 3/4"; Miles would be 3rd all-time on the list.

[devilboomer]

Interesting note....Miles jumped 6'9" to win his conference championship on Friday May 9. That's an excellent performance for a high school guy.

The Duke school record is 6'10 3/4"; Miles would be 3rd all-time on the list.

What's his vert?

[mgtr]

It seems a lot of people are dancing around one point -- we will have a whole lot more options next year than we did this year, plus it is less likely that Singler will be worn to a frazzle at tournament time. All positives in my book. Whats to dislike about the Duke team? And there looks to be more good stuff coming in '09!

[Festus13]

For that, you will have to go to the player evaluations sites -- unfortunately, they are pay sites. Some folks here do join those sites and do pass ranking information on if it is public information, but folks here do not do what you are asking.

Such sites are rivals.com and scout.com and others you can Google for.

Why, pray tell, would anyone try to protect a pay site by refusing to answer a question?

[-jk]

Why, pray tell, would anyone try to protect a pay site by refusing to answer a question?

Because pay sites contain copyrighted material, and we have a policy that bars posting of copyrighted material without permission.

If you want the information from a pay site, go sign up. Or wait for a free site to have it.

-jk

[moonpie23]

jk, i could be wrong , but aren't sites like CNN.com and NewsandObserver.com copyrighted material that forbid unauthorized reproductions? yet, it seems we often post quotes from them and sources like them which are not "pay" sites?

is there a distinction?

[-jk]

jk, i could be wrong , but aren't sites like CNN.com and NewsandObserver.com copyrighted material that forbid unauthorized reproductions? yet, it seems we often post quotes from them and sources like them which are not "pay" sites?

is there a distinction?

Yes, there is a distinction. Pay sites generally forbid any quoting or other dissemination of their "insider" information. We abide by their wishes.

"Free" sites generally allow quoting within the constraints of the DBR Guidelines (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3350): "You may not cut and paste large or entire sections from a newspaper article or other website. You may mention an article, use a quote or two, critique it, and give a link."

IANAL (though lawyers did help write the guidelines).

-jk

[phaedrus]

Interesting note....Miles jumped 6'9" to win his conference championship on Friday May 9. That's an excellent performance for a high school guy.

The Duke school record is 6'10 3/4"; Miles would be 3rd all-time on the list.

So it looks like he'll be the second-best high jumper on the basketball team, and better than any high jumper on the track team.

[norduck]

So it looks like he'll be the second-best high jumper on the basketball team, and better than any high jumper on the track team.

who is the # 1 high jumper on the team? Surely not Zoubek or Thomas.

[Acymetric]

who is the # 1 high jumper on the team? Surely not Zoubek or Thomas.

I have to assume its G. Nobody else on our team is really known for getting up the way he is. And he sure does get up there...man is it basketball season yet?

[mgtr]

We know from watching that G is indeed a "high" jumper. The question is whether he is also a "high jumper?" 6'9" in high school is pretty darn good, certainly better than the average bear.

[Acymetric]

We know from watching that G is indeed a "high" jumper. The question is whether he is also a "high jumper?" 6'9" in high school is pretty darn good, certainly better than the average bear.

Per goduke.com G was a state high jump champion, so I'd imagine he is in fact a "high jumper."

[Carlos]

That makes 2 state high jump champions on the Duke basketball team with the other being Steve Johnson who cleared 6-8 in HS.

[SMO]

That makes 2 state high jump champions on the Duke basketball team with the other being Steve Johnson who cleared 6-8 in HS.

Now if we could just recruit some athletes...:rolleyes:

[devildeac]

Now if we could just recruit some athletes...:rolleyes:

I said the same thing recently when I found out this information about the Plumlees. We keep recruiting all these young men who are track and field or HS FB stars and just can't play hoops(jk).

[Ignatius07]

Now if we could just recruit some athletes...:rolleyes:

I realize you're being sarcastic, but 1) Nobody questions that Gerald is a phenomenal athlete. He is exactly what the "more-athletes" crowd is clamoring for more of; and 2) I don't think we can count Steve Johnson as an "athlete" on our basketball team, seeing as how he doesn't play.

[Jarhead]

From what I have been reading from posters here for several years, most basketball fans equate athleticism with being able to dunk dramatically. In my mind, all of the things our guys do on the court qualify them, in varying degrees, as athletes whether they can dunk or not.

[Ignatius07]

From what I have been reading from posters here for several years, most basketball fans equate athleticism with being able to dunk dramatically. In my mind, all of the things our guys do on the court qualify them, in varying degrees, as athletes whether they can dunk or not.

Right. We are talking about those degrees, which do vary dramatically.

[ice-9]

When I think of athleticism desired in players, it depends on the position played:

Smalls:
- Penetration
- Lateral movement for defense

Bigs:
- Agility and jumping ability to collect rebounds
- Agility and jumping ability for post moves (dunks, easy lay-ups, spin moves, etc.)

[SMO]

I realize you're being sarcastic, but 1) Nobody questions that Gerald is a phenomenal athlete. He is exactly what the "more-athletes" crowd is clamoring for more of; and 2) I don't think we can count Steve Johnson as an "athlete" on our basketball team, seeing as how he doesn't play.

Not really sure where you're going here, but I will share a funny anecdote. A guy I work with claims Henderson is not a good athlete, he can just jump really high. The dude claims that Gerald is not very fast so he's not a good athlete at the D1 level. I suppose the determination that one is a "good athlete" is highly subjective. I happen to think guys that are really tall and can high jump over 6 feet are good athletes at the very least. Doesn't mean they're great basketball players, but certainly good athletes.

[Ignatius07]

Not really sure where you're going here, but I will share a funny anecdote. A guy I work with claims Henderson is not a good athlete, he can just jump really high. The dude claims that Gerald is not very fast so he's not a good athlete at the D1 level. I suppose the determination that one is a "good athlete" is highly subjective. I happen to think guys that are really tall and can high jump over 6 feet are good athletes at the very least. Doesn't mean they're great basketball players, but certainly good athletes.

I'm not trying to disparage Steve Johnson's athletic abilities. I'm only saying that if we can agree he qualifies as a good athlete, it doesn't really count since he doesn't play and thus his athletic ability makes no impact on the team, except perhaps in practice.

As you and somebody else above you allude to, though, there are different qualities that lend oneself to being an "athlete." Gerald is not exceptionally fast, but he is quite strong and an incredible leaper. I don't think somebody has to be able to dunk dramatically, as someone pointed out, to be an "athlete." It's some combination of speed, quickness, strength (often overlooked, in my opinion - this is why I would consider Shelden Williams to be an "athlete" as well), explosiveness, jumping ability, and agility.

We all realize that every member of the team is an "athlete" in the sense that they play D-I basketball at an elite school, but that doesn't mean that some are much more gifted in the above-mentioned areas than others.

[SilkyJ]

When I think of athleticism desired in players, it depends on the position played:

Smalls:
- Penetration
- Lateral movement for defense

Bigs:
- Agility and jumping ability to collect rebounds
- Agility and jumping ability for post moves (dunks, easy lay-ups, spin moves, etc.)

For the smalls:

I would add jumping ability. Jumping ability is always a factor in athleticism, in my mind. I would also add "quickness" and remove "penetration." Penetration often has as much if not more to do with vision and ball handling, neither of which are really measures of athleticism in my mind.

[ice-9]

Good point; penetration is really skill + athleticism. But it's that explosive first step I'd like to see in a guard...the ability to blow by people and control your body as you weave through traffic. Jwill had this...CP3 has this...Michael Jordan was the king of this.

[norduck]

Miles to compete at state meet Saturday.

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200880512108

[SMO]

Miles to compete at state meet Saturday.

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200880512108

"Wearing basketball shoes, Plumlee matched a school record Friday at the Carolinas Athletic Association meet by clearing 6-foot-9, one week after committing to the Blue Devils. His height is five inches better than any other Western North Carolina jumper, and he is expected to be the favorite at Saturday’s meet."

Jumping 6'9" is insane. I'd love to see some highlight dunks from him.

[gvtucker]

While the competition that Plumlee is facing in track and field isn't the best, it should be noted that he would have also won the NC State Championship this year at the 4A public school meet, where 6'7" took home first place.

FWIW, the North Carolina state high school record in the high jump is 7'2".

[MIKESJ73]

6-9 is pretty awesome. Anything over 6-8 is considered US first team elite as far as national standards. Plumlee is ranked 34th in the HJ nationally. While his jump may have won the NC state championships, there are two guys ranked in front of him from NC.

17. 6-11.00 Derrick Ross, Sr, Union Pines NC, 08 NCHSAA 3A Mideast Regional

29. 6-10.00 Brandon Enoch, Jr, Walter M. Williams NC, 08 Villian Relays

I've follow track for a long time, I can remember basketball players doing well at the high jump, but I can't ever remember a big man doing well.

On a side note, I had heard that 6-3 Mike Powell, the world record holder of the long jump (29' 4 1/2") could dunk from the 19-9 three point line. I never heard any confirmation on it, but I guess if anyone could do it, he could.

[UrinalCake]

So basically he could jump over anyone on our roster except Z!

[Ignatius07]

So basically he could jump over anyone on our roster except Z!

Yes, but if I were Kyle Singler I would probably take my shoes off just in case Miles didn't eat his Wheaties that morning.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

6-9 is pretty awesome. Anything over 6-8 is considered US first team elite as far as national standards. Plumlee is ranked 34th in the HJ nationally.

I've follow track for a long time, I can remember basketball players doing well at the high jump, but I can't ever remember a big man doing well.



In 1958, Wilt Chamberlain won the high jump competition in the Big Eight track and field championships, clearing the bar at 6-6.

[MChambers]

In 1958, Wilt Chamberlain won the high jump competition in the Big Eight track and field championships, clearing the bar at 6-6.

So Miles will be better than Wilt? :)

[gvtucker]

6-9 is pretty awesome. Anything over 6-8 is considered US first team elite as far as national standards. Plumlee is ranked 34th in the HJ nationally. While his jump may have won the NC state championships, there are two guys ranked in front of him from NC.

17. 6-11.00 Derrick Ross, Sr, Union Pines NC, 08 NCHSAA 3A Mideast Regional

29. 6-10.00 Brandon Enoch, Jr, Walter M. Williams NC, 08 Villian Relays

I've follow track for a long time, I can remember basketball players doing well at the high jump, but I can't ever remember a big man doing well.

When I was in high school in the late 70s, I played hoops against a 6'11" guy in the winter and jumped against him in the spring, and he cleared 6'11" at the state meet.

He went on to play hoops and jump in college, and had a PR in the high jump of 2.26m (about 7½ feet).


On a side note, I had heard that 6-3 Mike Powell, the world record holder of the long jump (29' 4 1/2") could dunk from the 19-9 three point line. I never heard any confirmation on it, but I guess if anyone could do it, he could.
I saw Powell come close. He took off midway between the foul line and the top of the key and dunked it. That wasn't the 3 pt line, granted, but very impressive nonetheless.

[jimsumner]

Remember that Wilt jumped before Fosbury revolutionzed the event.


"I've follow track for a long time, I can remember basketball players doing well at the high jump, but I can't ever remember a big man doing well."

Robert McAdoo once edged Bobby Jones for the North Carolina State prep title in the event.

[mgtr]

Bob McAdoo vs Bobby Jones in the high jump -- that would be some competition.

[Devilsfan]

Now let's teach our two new, high jumping players to rebound and make foul shots and things could very bright next season. I'm happy with our roster for next year and hope everyone else is too. Remember things could always be alot worse. I overheard one person at this weekends' graduation after the keynote speech turn to a family member who was complaining constantly about the weather and told him "And you thought the weather was bad!"

[BD80]

Bob McAdoo vs Bobby Jones in the high jump -- that would be some competition.

Even more interesting if they allowed defense.

A whole new take on goaltending.

[devildeac]

So Miles will be better than Wilt? :)

At high jumping, BB or other activities:o?

[MIKESJ73]

I guess I showed my age, I have only followed track closely for around 20 years. I wasn't aware of Wilts' performances. I did research it though and he was very impressive. 6-6 in the high jump won the bronze medal in the 1952 Olympics which had to be close to when he jumped his mark. His 440y and 880y times convert to 48.7 400m and 1:57.6 in the 800m, unbelievable for a 7 footer. He also threw the shot 53-4 and "broad" jumped 22'-0". A question for the older posters, would this be a standing broad jump?

[Turtleboy]

A question for the older posters, would this be a standing broad jump?No, it wouldn't.

[roywhite]

Saw Team Plumlee at the NC Independent Schools State Track Championships this morning. Not a great high jump day for the guys; Mason cleared 5'10" and failed at 6'0"; Miles cleared 6'4", failed at 6'6" and finished second. Neither are very polished technically, but get up well.

Spoke some to the family; very nice people, they were headed back to Asheville for graduation for Miles. Miles said he would be on campus June 23 to start classes. Mason said he would be playing in Bob Gibbons tournament and other AAU Tournaments this summer; said he would also try to get on campus frequently to visit Miles and play pick-up.

Both guys are way above my altitude, but I would say Mason is the taller of the two by maybe an inch or a little more and may be 6'11". Miles is the heavier of the two, is filling out some and looks to be working out. Both very nice young men, look forward to seeing them at Duke.

[kramerbr]

Looks like Miles finished pretty high in Scout.com's final 2008 rankings.

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2008

I'm sure there will still be critics who say he's ranked higher because he signed with Duke....

[DevilDan]

At 6'10", maybe he can work against Zoubek in practice every day--and toughen them BOTH up. Lord knows, the Devils need an inside game this coming season. Singler, Scheyer, Paulus and Henderson have to get a dependable big man inside.

Czyz is a tough kid, and a slasher from 10 feet in -- I hope he develops quickly enough to earn minutes in Nov-Dec.

[trinity92]

My 5/2/08 post in this thread:


I see no reason to hold back your enthusiasm for this AMAZING late season pick-up.

Don't get me wrong-- I'm not expecting Miles to come in and transform the program, or average a double-double right out of the starting gate. However, until this news, I expected next year to be a repeat of this one, due to our failure to pick up a post player. Without Miles, I truly believe 2008-2009 would have been another very entertaining year watching a team we all could be proud of, but Mssrs. EW and OC (absolutely no insult here) didn't and don't address our most obvious needs.

Until adding MP, we were entering this coming season in virtually exactly the same position as last year: the team's ability to make any post-season run would hinge on Zoubek and LT's substantial improvement. Now, we can add MP's contribution as another factor. To me, that is an immeasurable step forward, and I'm so much more excited for this coming season than I was before.

Go Duke!!

In the wake of yesterday's B/W scrimmage, we should be very excited about this year. If we didn't have MP, watching BZ and LT yesterday would have been very discouraging, because they don't look substantially different from last year. Now we've seen that MP has a defensive clue and is at least ready to contribute, I feel BZ has the time he needs to get his legs under him, and if he can finally have an injury-free season, we may get to see the development he needs.

Go duke!

[Truth]

In the wake of yesterday's B/W scrimmage, we should be very excited about this year. If we didn't have MP, watching BZ and LT yesterday would have been very discouraging, because they don't look substantially different from last year. Now we've seen that MP has a defensive clue and is at least ready to contribute, I feel BZ has the time he needs to get his legs under him, and if he can finally have an injury-free season, we may get to see the development he needs.

Go duke!

Toot away! There is no doubt that Plumlee was an instrumental pick-up to this freshman class. While E-Mail (it'll take me awhile to get used to that nickname) is clearly the more talented player, Plumlee is filling a much larger area of need - post depth.

[SMO]

Toot away! There is no doubt that Plumlee was an instrumental pick-up to this freshman class. While E-Mail (it'll take me awhile to get used to that nickname) is clearly the more talented player, Plumlee is filling a much larger area of need - post depth.

Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but isn't it also encouraging that Mason Plumlee has been considered an even better prospect than Miles?