Ladies and Gentlemen, the Atlanta Hawks.

[wilson]

I'm still not predicting a series victory or anything, but the Hawks have just evened the series with the Celtics. On top of that, as Dominique Wilkins mentioned on the TNT telecast, the city has actually decided (albeit in typically belated fashion) to care. Philips Arena was LOUD tonight, and people in Atlanta actually know what's going on. My brother called from a sports bar, dumbfounded to be amid several dozen people loudly cheering for the team. I sat and watched the whole thing by myself at home. Tonight's 4th quarter was among the most inspired basketball I can ever remember seeing from any Hawks team (down 10 at the end of the 3rd, win by 6). I have actually watched a number of games this year, because the team has displayed its first semblance of true progress in nearly a decade. The losing record playoff campaign was/is a bit of a laugher, but it was improvement nonetheless, and here we stand with a deadlocked series against the best team in the NBA. I, for one, am quite pleased.

[Channing]

I know JE is stewing at the thought of Mike Woodson being successful because it will only elongate his tenure with the Hawks - but that was awesome.

Joe Johnson is something else.

[hc5duke]

If someone told me 2 weeks ago that #1 and #2 seeds would go 7-1 in one conference, while the other conference goes 4-4... I would have lost a lot of money.

[billybreen]

Congrats to the Hawks. There are going to be quite a few concerned faces in the office tomorrow.

[Ignatius07]

Joe Johnson was unreal in the fourth quarter. Perhaps that big deal is finally paying off (well, probably not)?

[Channing]

Joe Johnson was unreal in the fourth quarter. Perhaps that big deal is finally paying off (well, probably not)?

to debunk a common misconception - There was not opposition to getting Joe Johnson. The problem is that he was a restricted free agent. With Nash on the books, Marion on the books, and Stoudamire about to get a huge pay day the Suns were not going to match a max deal for JJ. The Hawks offered him a max deal, and then balked, and traded a first round pick (or was it two first rounders) in a sign and trade with the Suns. I think JJ has clearly shown that he is worth a max deal. The problem was with the Hawks giving up a first round pick. Incidentally, it will be a pick in this draft- one of the deepest drafts in recent years.

[JasonEvans]

to debunk a common misconception - There was not opposition to getting Joe Johnson. The problem is that he was a restricted free agent. With Nash on the books, Marion on the books, and Stoudamire about to get a huge pay day the Suns were not going to match a max deal for JJ. The Hawks offered him a max deal, and then balked, and traded a first round pick (or was it two first rounders) in a sign and trade with the Suns. I think JJ has clearly shown that he is worth a max deal. The problem was with the Hawks giving up a first round pick. Incidentally, it will be a pick in this draft- one of the deepest drafts in recent years.

The Hawks gave up Boris Diaw (who has blossomed into a pretty darn good player in Phoenix) and 2 first rounders for JJ. One of those first rounders was later dealt to the Celtics who used it on Rajon Rando. The other comes due this year and will be the 15th pick in this year's draft. Had the Hawks been just a couple games worse this year, it would have been a lottery pick. In fact, had the Hawks not gotten quite lucky in the lottery last year, that pick could have been someone like Mike Conley, Corey Brewer, or Brandan Wright.

I don't think anyone disputes the value of getting JJ. I very much wanted the Hawks to get him. But, as indicated in the post above, the Hawks gave him a deal that they knew the Suns could not match -- they "overpaid" for Johnson precisely so the Suns would not match it -- and then when the Suns threatened to match it (a threat that they never could have kept) the Hawks buckled. Really, really bad management.

--Jason "this is a franchise that has lucked into being decent despite itself" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I know JE is stewing at the thought of Mike Woodson being successful because it will only elongate his tenure with the Hawks - but that was awesome.

Bingo. As I was enjoying the Hawks comeback in the 4th and feeling great about the team, I kept on thinking in the back of my mind, "Woodson just bought himself another year...@^@&!*@*~!!!"

Want to know how bad a coach Mike Woodson is? The following is a true story--

With 4 seconds left last night, James Posey makes a 3 from the corner to make it a 3 point game. Boston has really only one chance at this point. They must steal the inbounds pass and hit a 3 to send it to overtime. One of the Hawks players grabs the ball almost the instant it goes through the basket and inbounds it to Mike Bibby (an 80% FT shooter and a NBA vet immune to pressure). The moment the ball hit Bibby's hands, the game was over. It was perfect execution by Atlanta-- not waiting to let Boston get set up to steal the inbounds pass and designed to maybe even run an extra second or two off the clock before hitting just 1 of 2 FTs to ice the game. It was smart basketball. The team in the lead has to make that play before the opposition gets a chance to defend them and maybe steal the pass.

But wait... the play had been blown dead. Before the Hawks inbounded the ball, Mike Woodson had called timeout to design an inbounds play. Did I mention that this was the Hawks final timeout? So, not only did he allow Boston to set up for a potential steal, but (just in case everyone was covered) he made it so that the Hawks could not call timeout if they were having trouble inbounding the ball. The sheer stupidity of the team in the lead calling that timeout boggles the mind.

Ladies and Gentlemen, that is Mike Woodson at his finest.

Oh, and anyone who praises Woodson for his role in the Hawks success last night is on crack. I wonder what he was saying in the huddles during the 4th quarter? "Hey guys, pass it to JJ and get out of the way. Ready, break!"

--Jason "could Marvin Williams suck any more than he does? Boy, I sure am glad we did not get Chris Paul or Deron Williams out of that draft pick!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I have moved this thread to the main board as pro basketball playoff action is on-topic.

--Jason

[gvtucker]

With 4 seconds left last night, James Posey makes a 3 from the corner to make it a 3 point game. Boston has really only one chance at this point. They must steal the inbounds pass and hit a 3 to send it to overtime. One of the Hawks players grabs the ball almost the instant it goes through the basket and inbounds it to Mike Bibby (an 80% FT shooter and a NBA vet immune to pressure). The moment the ball hit Bibby's hands, the game was over. It was perfect execution by Atlanta-- not waiting to let Boston get set up to steal the inbounds pass and designed to maybe even run an extra second or two off the clock before hitting just 1 of 2 FTs to ice the game. It was smart basketball. The team in the lead has to make that play before the opposition gets a chance to defend them and maybe steal the pass.

But wait... the play had been blown dead. Before the Hawks inbounded the ball, Mike Woodson had called timeout to design an inbounds play. Did I mention that this was the Hawks final timeout? So, not only did he allow Boston to set up for a potential steal, but (just in case everyone was covered) he made it so that the Hawks could not call timeout if they were having trouble inbounding the ball. The sheer stupidity of the team in the lead calling that timeout boggles the mind.

Ladies and Gentlemen, that is Mike Woodson at his finest.
I don't think that was a horrible call at all by Woodson.

It wasn't guaranteed that they would get the ball inbounds so quickly (although, of course, they did).

You call time out, you're guaranteed to get the ball at the hash mark in front court. With 2.xx seconds left (I don't remember exactly how much) you can even have the inbounds pass stolen, and as long as you pass the ball forward, and not backward, you're fine.

Oh, and Joe Johnson....dang, what a 4th quarter.

[Classof06]

Boston let a young team get confidence and now they got themselves into a sticky situation. That whole Garnett-Pachulia incident last night was so telling because it mirrors what's going on in this series; Boston thinks Atlanta will lay/back down, Atlanta won't (they came back from two 10-point defecits last night- one in the 1st quarter and one in the 4th), and Boston is getting frustrated.

What makes this troublesome for Boston is that they have to come back to Atlanta (a place they have yet to win) for Game 6 no matter what. This Friday night, no less. Phillips Arena will be rocking again.

As a Cavs fan, I hope this series goes as long as possible and I hope we close Washington out tomorrow night and get some rest :D .

[Classof06]

As far as Joe Johnson goes, it's clear that Ray Allen cannot stay in front of him and I applaud Mike Woodson and the Hawks for continually exploiting that matchup; it very well may have won them the game.

[Troublemaker]

Yeah, the Hawks dominated Boston to the tune of 32-17 in the 4th quarter to win by 5. Pretty shocking first round series here. Atlanta doesn't have much depth but their predominant lineup of Bibby, JJ, Childress, Smith, and Horford consists of 5 good to very good players. And except for Bibby, they're all young. Not a bad future for Atlanta. Horford is going to turn into an All-Star center in the East. I love his aggressiveness and skill. Smith is a freaking versatile stud at PF -- 7 blocks last night. And Joe Johnson -- what can you say after a performance like that. It was Kobe-like. Great player at SG.

[Edouble]

to debunk a common misconception - There was not opposition to getting Joe Johnson. The problem is that he was a restricted free agent. With Nash on the books, Marion on the books, and Stoudamire about to get a huge pay day the Suns were not going to match a max deal for JJ. The Hawks offered him a max deal, and then balked, and traded a first round pick (or was it two first rounders) in a sign and trade with the Suns. I think JJ has clearly shown that he is worth a max deal. The problem was with the Hawks giving up a first round pick. Incidentally, it will be a pick in this draft- one of the deepest drafts in recent years.

Yeah, but any long time Hawks fan can tell you how terrible we are in the first round of the draft. I, for one, was glad to give up the first round pick in exchange for a very solid player. Go Hawks, get it done fellas!!!

[Huh?]

Who drafted all those guys? Didn't he catch hell for drafting the "same" type players.

[hood7]

I don't think that was a horrible call at all by Woodson.

It wasn't guaranteed that they would get the ball inbounds so quickly (although, of course, they did).

You call time out, you're guaranteed to get the ball at the hash mark in front court. With 2.xx seconds left (I don't remember exactly how much) you can even have the inbounds pass stolen, and as long as you pass the ball forward, and not backward, you're fine.

Oh, and Joe Johnson....dang, what a 4th quarter.

I disagree (and agree with Jason). There was about 4 seconds left, and Woodson didn't even wait to see if they could get the ball in easily. He panicked and called the TO, when he should have let them take a look or two for an inbounds pass before calling the TO. So, he gave the Celts a chance to set up a D, and if they'd stolen the inbounds they'd have had a few seconds to get a decent 3 off. It was one of those "oh, they're trying so hard to blow this" moments, which are plentiful in Atlanta.

[wilson]

Who drafted all those guys? Didn't he catch hell for drafting the "same" type players.

Yes, and some of that now appears unfounded. But let's not forget, he still drafted Marvin Williams over Chris Paul. Make that trade today, and this is easily a 55-win team.

[gvtucker]

I disagree (and agree with Jason). There was about 4 seconds left, and Woodson didn't even wait to see if they could get the ball in easily. He panicked and called the TO, when he should have let them take a look or two for an inbounds pass before calling the TO. So, he gave the Celts a chance to set up a D, and if they'd stolen the inbounds they'd have had a few seconds to get a decent 3 off. It was one of those "oh, they're trying so hard to blow this" moments, which are plentiful in Atlanta.

If you wait and see if you can get the ball in easily, you give up the opportunity to inbound the ball in front court. You have to call the timeout after the basket is made but before you make an attempt to inbound the ball.

[Edouble]

Who drafted all those guys? Didn't he catch hell for drafting the "same" type players.

Yeah, Billy Knight wanted a bunch of tall guys with long arms. It's ridiculous. Draft the best players, not just guys that fit a physical description.

[Channing]

Who drafted all those guys? Didn't he catch hell for drafting the "same" type players.

well, you can throw Shelden and Marvin Williams into that group too. He also drafted (in the same draft) Childress over Luol for some unknown reason, and Royale Ivey over Duhon after Duhon (and Duke) dominated Ivey (and UT) in MSG earlier that very season.

[JasonEvans]

well, you can throw Shelden and Marvin Williams into that group too. He also drafted (in the same draft) Childress over Luol for some unknown reason, and Royale Ivey over Duhon after Duhon (and Duke) dominated Ivey (and UT) in MSG earlier that very season.

I quite litterally threw stuff at my TV when the Hawks took Childress over Luol Deng. It was the moment that made me hope and pray for the demise of the Billy Knight regime.

But, the best, best, best thing about it was a column in the newspaper the next day. There is a columnist in Atlanta who serves as Billy Knight's appologist and he wrote that the Hawks too Childress over the more highly regarded Deng because "Billy Knight believes in drafting guys with long arms."

I read that line 4 or 5 times. It may be the first time in recorded history that Luold Deng has NOT BEEN associated with having long arms. I even went back and looked at the official height and reach info from the NBA's pre-draft camp. Sure enough Deng's reach is greater than Childress.

Mind boggling stupidity by this franchise... its fan-tastic!

--Jason "is Billy Knight worse as a GM than Mike Woodson is as a coach-- tough question!" Evans

[CDu]

--Jason "could Marvin Williams suck any more than he does? Boy, I sure am glad we did not get Chris Paul or Deron Williams out of that draft pick!" Evans

He could definitely be worse. I mean, the guy averaged 15 and 6 this year, and is averaging 11 in the playoffs against the #1 seed. Not amazing stats, but he's no Darko Milicic. But while he doesn't suck, he certainly was not the right choice over Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

And yes - Woodson is not a good coach. The Hawks actually have quite a talented team. Bibby, Johnson, Williams, Smith, and Horford, with Childress off the bench. The only gripe I have (aside from the coach) is the lack of a good backup at guard and the lack of a solid center to bump Horford down to the PF spot and Smith down to the SF spot, and Williams to the bench. But man are they athletic at the 2 through 4 spots.

[wilson]

There's some scuttlebutt as to whether KG will be suspended for tomorrow night's game for bumping a ref during the Pachulia imbroglio. If that happens, the league will pretty much have to suspend both Marvin Williams and Kendrick Perkins as well (each had one foot on the court during the incident, qualifying as "leaving the bench area"). My hunch is that nobody will be suspended. Fair or not, I don't think the NBA really wants to take the image hit that would result from suspending Garnett in such a situation (though it would fit right in in Boston sports history).
Anybody got a good read on how this all might go down?

[jipops]

Well for all the apparent draft blunders the Hawks certainly do have themselves an extremely talented and mostly young roster. Just look at the matchup issues they're presenting Boston. Adding Bibby was a huge move obviously.

You know the interesting thing about these playoffs? The West was supposed to be this constant showdown between dominant teams. Well the Lakers have swept Denver while Dallas, Phoenix, and Houston are almost done. It is quite possible that no Western series will last more than 5 games in the 1st round. However, in the East we have even series with Detroit-Phili and Boston-Atl and some very nice side drama going on with Cleve-Wash. All the talk before the playoffs was about the West but the East has turned out to be just as interesting if not more so.

[gvtucker]

There's some scuttlebutt as to whether KG will be suspended for tomorrow night's game for bumping a ref during the Pachulia imbroglio. If that happens, the league will pretty much have to suspend both Marvin Williams and Kendrick Perkins as well (each had one foot on the court during the incident, qualifying as "leaving the bench area"). My hunch is that nobody will be suspended. Fair or not, I don't think the NBA really wants to take the image hit that would result from suspending Garnett in such a situation (though it would fit right in in Boston sports history).
Anybody got a good read on how this all might go down?

The NBA has historically taken the "leaving the bench area" very seriously and very literally. Williams and Perkins will probably be suspended.

Regarding Garnett, that's a bit more subjective. I think it's possible, but if they suspend Garnett, they'll probably also suspend Pachulia, who appeared to head butt Garnett. I think those two guys go together--either both are suspended or neither is.

[CDu]

The NBA has historically taken the "leaving the bench area" very seriously and very literally. Williams and Perkins will probably be suspended.

Regarding Garnett, that's a bit more subjective. I think it's possible, but if they suspend Garnett, they'll probably also suspend Pachulia, who appeared to head butt Garnett. I think those two guys go together--either both are suspended or neither is.

Williams and Perkins will definitely be suspended on one condition: if the NBA deems the incident a fight. If they don't call it a fight, there will be no suspensions. As evidence, see last year when Duncan left the bench during an altercation between Bell and Horry (I believe), but no punches were thrown so he wasn't suspended.

Either all four will be suspended or none of them will be suspended - I don't see any middle ground here. And I suspect none will be suspended, as I don't think the NBA will call it a fight.

[gvtucker]

Williams and Perkins will definitely be suspended on one condition: if the NBA deems the incident a fight. If they don't call it a fight, there will be no suspensions. As evidence, see last year when Duncan left the bench during an altercation between Bell and Horry (I believe), but no punches were thrown so he wasn't suspended.

Either all four will be suspended or none of them will be suspended - I don't see any middle ground here. And I suspect none will be suspended, as I don't think the NBA will call it a fight.

Ah, good point, forgot about that important piece to the puzzle.

[JasonEvans]

I think the Hawks would gladly sit Marvin and Zaza if it forced the Celtics to sit Perkins and KG. Heck, if I was the Hawks GM, I'd be on the phone with Stern demanding this right now!!

--Jason "I agree that no one will be suspended-- the guys who came on the floor looked like they were just standing up to get a better view of the 'fight'" Evans

[wilson]

There's still a distinction to be made here. There is at least one photo of KG clearly elbowing/shoving/whatever the ref...it is definite contact, and it's no mere brush. I can't find the pic at the moment, but I'm still looking. That, to me, stands completely aside from the fight/non-fight (and fwiw, I agree with the board consensus on that matter).

[wilson]

Side note: After patting the Hawks on their head and sending them to bed with a glass of milk in his latest column (after Game 2), Bill Simmons is [poop]ing bricks as I write this in his ESPN.com chat. I suspect that'll bring a smile to a few faces around here.

[wilson]

Here is the pic of Garnett shoving an official:

http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/01/60/22/orignal_522601_PNSUSG0_fight.jpg

[CDu]

Side note: After patting the Hawks on their head and sending them to bed with a glass of milk in his latest column (after Game 2), Bill Simmons is [poop]ing bricks as I write this in his ESPN.com chat. I suspect that'll bring a smile to a few faces around here.

Yes, that is a good point. I have changed my position a bit based on this: I still think that the incident will not be viewed as a fight. Thus, I don't think that Pachulia, Williams, or Perkins will be suspended. Garnett is entirely in his own category. He may be suspended not for fighting, but for excessive contact with an official. I still suspect that no one gets suspended, though I can certainly see the argument that Garnett could/should be suspended.

[Acymetric]

Yes, that is a good point. I have changed my position a bit based on this: I still think that the incident will not be viewed as a fight. Thus, I don't think that Pachulia, Williams, or Perkins will be suspended. Garnett is entirely in his own category. He may be suspended not for fighting, but for excessive contact with an official. I still suspect that no one gets suspended, though I can certainly see the argument that Garnett could/should be suspended.

I didn't think anyone would get suspended last year in the Suns/Spurs series, and honestly I think they have to here because they did then. If they don't I'll be PO'd because I was mad when that suspension happened and if this slides by then its obviously because its KG and the Celtics, and even though I think what Boston has done is great, you still have to follow the rules. No star treatment. Rules are rules right? Thats what they said last year.

Great, now I'm all mad about the suspensions (and inadiquate suspensions...Horry I'm looking at you) from last year again.

[MChambers]

The Hawks gave up Boris Diaw (who has blossomed into a pretty darn good player in Phoenix) and 2 first rounders for JJ. One of those first rounders was later dealt to the Celtics who used it on Rajon Rando. The other comes due this year and will be the 15th pick in this year's draft. Had the Hawks been just a couple games worse this year, it would have been a lottery pick. In fact, had the Hawks not gotten quite lucky in the lottery last year, that pick could have been someone like Mike Conley, Corey Brewer, or Brandan Wright.

I don't think anyone disputes the value of getting JJ. I very much wanted the Hawks to get him. But, as indicated in the post above, the Hawks gave him a deal that they knew the Suns could not match -- they "overpaid" for Johnson precisely so the Suns would not match it -- and then when the Suns threatened to match it (a threat that they never could have kept) the Hawks buckled. Really, really bad management.

--Jason "this is a franchise that has lucked into being decent despite itself" Evans

Redick's with the Hawks? How did I miss this?

Come on, Jason, around here there's only one JJ.

[hood7]

If you wait and see if you can get the ball in easily, you give up the opportunity to inbound the ball in front court. You have to call the timeout after the basket is made but before you make an attempt to inbound the ball.

Is that right? I thought the inbound passer could look around (even run the baseline) for a couple seconds, looking for an open man, and then call a timeout if needed. That timeout would still give you the ball in the front court, as long as the inbounder had not made a pass, n'est-ce pas?

So why would you not give your inbounder a couple seconds to look for an open man? Answer: panic.

Maybe I've got the rule wrong, I've just never heard that your timeout is a different kind of timeout if you "wait and see if you can get the ball in easily" before calling your timeout, as opposed to calling it immediately. Strange rule, if true.

[ugadevil]

Here is the pic of Garnett shoving an official:

http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/01/60/22/orignal_522601_PNSUSG0_fight.jpg

Wilson, is this picture accurate? At times, you find some good pictures with the help of photoshop.

The referee looks to be Eddie F. Rush, who's a punk. Sorry...personal sidenote, but I played ball against his son. Judging by his attitude on the court, you'd never believe his dad is an NBA official.

[wilson]

Wilson, is this picture accurate? At times, you find some good pictures with the help of photoshop.

The referee looks to be Eddie F. Rush, who's a punk. Sorry...personal sidenote, but I played ball against his son. Judging by his attitude on the court, you'd never believe his dad is an NBA official.

The pic came from Cox News Service (via ajc.com). I sincerely hope it's not photoshopped.
I'm of course partial, but it appears to me to present a fairly damning argument in favor of a suspension for KG.

[ugadevil]

Here is the pic of Garnett shoving an official:

http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/01/60/22/orignal_522601_PNSUSG0_fight.jpg

After seeing this picture, what are the odds Kevin Garnett becomes known as "Ratatouille"?

[wilson]

No disciplinary measures for anyone. I'm not sure that a lesser person than Kevin Garnett would have escaped sanction for pushing a ref, but I think in this case, the decision is the right one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3374218

[phaedrus]

The Hawks gave up Boris Diaw (who has blossomed into a pretty darn good player in Phoenix)

I think that depends which night of the week you watch him play.

[BD80]

Bingo. As I was enjoying the Hawks comeback in the 4th and feeling great about the team, I kept on thinking in the back of my mind, "Woodson just bought himself another year...@^@&!*@*~!!!"

--Jason "could Marvin Williams suck any more than he does? Boy, I sure am glad we did not get Chris Paul or Deron Williams out of that draft pick!" Evans


Yeah, but any long time Hawks fan can tell you how terrible we are in the first round of the draft.


Mind boggling stupidity by this franchise... its fan-tastic!

--Jason "is Billy Knight worse as a GM than Mike Woodson is as a coach-- tough question!" Evans

From Randy Hill on FoxSports:

"In Atlanta, Mike Woodson's been on the hot seat long enough to have a common-law claim on its ownership. We don't know if breaking even in four playoff games with the Celtics is enough to save Mike's job.

But we'd certainly like to see how he'd do with Chris Paul suiting up instead of Marvin Williams or Brandon Roy instead of Shelden Williams.

Too bad for Woodson that GM Billy Knight's fondness for draft picks named Williams did not inspire him to select Deron."

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8090576/Suns-would-be-wise-to-keep-D'Antoni-in-Phoenix

[Edouble]

Ugh, we're in trouble now. I think the Celts smell blood in the water.

[wilson]

Wow. What a game. It's so much fun to watch a team like this who missed the memo that they were supposed to just roll over and die (unless said team is Belmont). We should lose on Sunday of course, but I'll definitely be watching no matter what. This was the first time I've been genuinely nervous about a Hawks game since I was about 14. I'm very proud of the hometown boys.

[BD80]

Up by 3 with 7 seconds to go, and the Hawks let Rondo put up a 3.

I am rooting for the Hawks to beat the Celts in game 7, but if they do, it won't be because of Woodson's brilliant coaching.

[moonpie23]

this could be this year's mavs/warriors meltdown.........i THINK the celts can get this done....but i THOUGHT the mavs could get it done last year....yeah...that was an ugly shot by rondo....

who the heck knows in a game 7.....


i mean.....UNC was SPOSED to win the title this year......oh....and last year too... ;)

[Edouble]

I'm so proud of the Hawks!!!

[EarlJam]

I'm so proud of the Hawks!!!

Simple, but so well said!

I am too! I watched the game tonight with friends at a buddy's house and in the middle of it just turned to him and said, "Dude, can you believe this? We actually planned the night around a Hawks game."

No matter what happens Sunday, this has been a Great, Great, Great Hawks season!

-EarlJam

[BlueintheFace]

Up by 3 with 7 seconds to go, and the Hawks let Rondo put up a 3.

I am rooting for the Hawks to beat the Celts in game 7, but if they do, it won't be because of Woodson's brilliant coaching.

Well, what else would it be? It certainly isn't a monopoly on effort/heart or superior talent. If they win you have to credit either Woodson or the Basketball Gods...

[wilson]

Well, what else would it be? It certainly isn't a monopoly on effort/heart or superior talent. If they win you have to credit either Woodson or the Basketball Gods...

I actually do think that the Basketball Gods deserve a certain amount of credit for this performance. I don't think Woodson is quite as bad as he gets credit for, but he isn't all that good, and the same goes for the Hawks roster. They are the NBA equivalent of a tournament team that is supposedly a year away, but plays out of its shoes for a round or two and becomes TV darlings. I still don't expect them to win on Sunday, but it's an undeniable accomplishment, and it definitely bodes well for the future.

[slower]

Yes, that is a good point. I have changed my position a bit based on this: I still think that the incident will not be viewed as a fight. Thus, I don't think that Pachulia, Williams, or Perkins will be suspended. Garnett is entirely in his own category. He may be suspended not for fighting, but for excessive contact with an official. I still suspect that no one gets suspended, though I can certainly see the argument that Garnett could/should be suspended.

I have never really seen Garnett play much over the years, but I always assumed (based on slurping in the media) that he was a "great and noble warrior". But the guy's just a punk. Extremely chippy and his dead-ball goaltending B.S. is WAAY over the top. I said in another thread a while ago, that I wish vintage Maurice Lucas could come back for a game and wreak havoc on some punks. For Garnett, I'm wishing that vintage Wilt Chamberlain would come back and hang Garnett from the basket support or shot-put him into the 5th row.

Paul Pierce has always been a punk and Ray Allen's omnipresent scowl is also irritating. I was actually ready to like these guys going into the season, but now I wish them nothing but failure. Maybe they are just channeling the spirit of the most offensive sports executive ever, the insufferable Red Auerbach.

GO HAWKS!

[Troublemaker]

Yeah, I'm not sure Woodson deserves praise since he did go 37-45 with this team. That record should've been reversed at the very least because the Hawks really do have a good player at every position and a burgeoning great player in Joe Johnson that can make his teammates better. 37-45, with this team, in the East. Yikes.

For the Hawk fans that still lament not drafting Chris Paul. I would lament that as well, but keep in mind that, if you had drafted Paul, you wouldn't have been in position to draft Horford in this past draft. And who knows when Atlanta would've gotten another chance to pick up a young, fearless postscorer like him. Horford can be an All-Star in the East.

[wilson]

For the Hawk fans that still lament not drafting Chris Paul. I would lament that as well, but keep in mind that, if you had drafted Paul, you wouldn't have been in position to draft Horford in this past draft. And who knows when Atlanta would've gotten another chance to pick up a young, fearless postscorer like him. Horford can be an All-Star in the East.

This is a good point, but I have one correction to make: Horford will be an All-Star. Like, next season.

[Lavabe]

Yeah, I'm not sure Woodson deserves praise since he did go 37-45 with this team. That record should've been reversed at the very least because the Hawks really do have a good player at every position and a burgeoning great player in Joe Johnson that can make his teammates better. 37-45, with this team, in the East. Yikes.

Let's say the Hawks WIN this series. They would need to sweep the next two series to break .500.:eek:

Let's suppose they win this series, and win each of the remaining ones by 4-2. They'd be NBA champions, but they'd still have a losing record!:eek:

[wilson]

The final item in this rundown of last night's game is fantastic:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/specials/playoffs/2008/05/02/fastbreak.celtics.hawks/index.html?eref=T1

[calltheobvious]

I have never really seen Garnett play much over the years, but I always assumed (based on slurping in the media) that he was a "great and noble warrior". But the guy's just a punk. Extremely chippy and his dead-ball goaltending B.S. is WAAY over the top. I said in another thread a while ago, that I wish vintage Maurice Lucas could come back for a game and wreak havoc on some punks. For Garnett, I'm wishing that vintage Wilt Chamberlain would come back and hang Garnett from the basket support or shot-put him into the 5th row.

Paul Pierce has always been a punk and Ray Allen's omnipresent scowl is also irritating. I was actually ready to like these guys going into the season, but now I wish them nothing but failure. Maybe they are just channeling the spirit of the most offensive sports executive ever, the insufferable Red Auerbach.

GO HAWKS!

Dude, relax. We root for laundry.

[bhd28]

Yeah, I'm not sure Woodson deserves praise since he did go 37-45 with this team. That record should've been reversed at the very least because the Hawks really do have a good player at every position and a burgeoning great player in Joe Johnson that can make his teammates better. 37-45, with this team, in the East. Yikes.

For the Hawk fans that still lament not drafting Chris Paul. I would lament that as well, but keep in mind that, if you had drafted Paul, you wouldn't have been in position to draft Horford in this past draft. And who knows when Atlanta would've gotten another chance to pick up a young, fearless postscorer like him. Horford can be an All-Star in the East.
Yeah, but... all star PF for the East or the runner up for NBA MVP... who is one year older... and plays the toughest to fill spot outside of a true center?

[Troublemaker]

Yeah, but... all star PF for the East or the runner up for NBA MVP... who is one year older... and plays the toughest to fill spot outside of a true center?

True, I'm not saying they're equal, just that Horford is a nice silver lining. And actually, even though I'd take Paul over Horford if I'm starting a team fresh, I might argue that on a team that already has Joe Johnson, who is Atlanta's de facto playmaker and a fine one, adding Horford instead of Paul makes them a better, more well-rounded team.

[bhd28]

True, I'm not saying they're equal, just that Horford is a nice silver lining. And actually, even though I'd take Paul over Horford if I'm starting a team fresh, I might argue that on a team that already has Joe Johnson, who is Atlanta's de facto playmaker and a fine one, adding Horford instead of Paul makes them a better, more well-rounded team.
If I was to debate, I would counter that there was a reason that they went and got Bibby, but I say let's just be happy with where they are and not lament about what could have been. :)

[Edouble]

If I was to debate, I would counter that there was a reason that they went and got Bibby, but I say let's just be happy with where they are and not lament about what could have been. :)

Uh, yeah, that could take years.

[Uncle Drew]

I'm still not predicting a series victory or anything, but the Hawks have just evened the series with the Celtics. On top of that, as Dominique Wilkins mentioned on the TNT telecast, the city has actually decided (albeit in typically belated fashion) to care. Philips Arena was LOUD tonight, and people in Atlanta actually know what's going on. My brother called from a sports bar, dumbfounded to be amid several dozen people loudly cheering for the team. I sat and watched the whole thing by myself at home. Tonight's 4th quarter was among the most inspired basketball I can ever remember seeing from any Hawks team (down 10 at the end of the 3rd, win by 6). I have actually watched a number of games this year, because the team has displayed its first semblance of true progress in nearly a decade. The losing record playoff campaign was/is a bit of a laugher, but it was improvement nonetheless, and here we stand with a deadlocked series against the best team in the NBA. I, for one, am quite pleased.


Are you really pleased? At what point did you become pleased, last night? When they made the playoffs? I have to say I'd have a lot easier time pulling for the Hawks if Shelden Williams were still playing for them and a certain other Williams was playing in Antartica.

The scene you describe if I do say so doesn't sound like Atlanta at all. My mom was born and raised in Cumming GA (go ahead make jokes, I know I do.) and I have relatives from Cordele to Marietta. For all we know you and I may be cousins. There are a bunch of posters on DBR from GA, particularly Atlanta, native and transplant alike. (Earl Jam doesn't count, he's from Burlington NC originally and the tainted water fried his brain so badly he thinks he's in Atlantis.) But I have thought something for a long time, and don't take this as a slap directed at you Wilson. It's actually directed at the average sports fan in Georgia, many of whom are my relatives. The state of Georgia has some of the worst sports fans in the world.


I remember Dominique's Hawks playing the Bulls in the Omni years ago. The fans down there were pulling for Jordan, IN THE PLAYOFFS! Granted I loathe Jordan for where he went to school, but they were pulling against the home team. Every NBA draft when they make a bad pick that doesn't address needs I laugh and say it serves them right. If Atlanta wanted a good basketball team they should have been pulling for them the last time they had a decent team.

Then we go to the beloved Braves, everyones favorite baseball team from Gafney SC to Gainsville FL. We Duke fans are called spoiled, and perhaps it's with good reason. But a few years back when the Cubs and Braves met in the playoffs, Cubs fans bought up all the away tickets and Turner field had at least an equal number if not more fans than the Braves. I suppose if I were the owner I might just be glad the games were sold out. But knowing my home city didn't care enough about the most popular team in the city to give a homefield advantage? Well imagine Cameron being 50% or more filled with UNC fans durring a Duke vs. UNC mens basketball game. You can't envision it and neither can I.

Next we go to the Falcons who didn't do anything every single year after being in the NFC championship game against the Cowboys to get the right to lose to the Steelers in the 1979 Super Bowl. The city had high hopes, but year after year it got worse and worse. People in Georgia do LOVE some football and they actually know it better than baseball despite the Braves. It's just a shame all hope of the future went down in a dog fight in a Home Depot lot. Blame PETA all you want to, but season ticket sales haven't been anything to smile about since Jimmy Carter was still in office.

Now UNLIKE North Carolina, Georgia knows, loves and appreciates college football UGA and GT both have national titles. (Although GT's last one was a co-champion and UNC tied them that year so it doesn't really count.:D) Game day in Athens or Atlanta is actually a happy time filled with hope, unlike recent autumn Saturdays in the triangle. And next to Ibiza Spain, Mardi Gras and anytime my ex wife drinks absynthe there isn't a bigger party than Florida vs. Georgia in football. GT has been to two Final Fours (oddly enough in the same year as Duke went) but even a national title in basketball wouldn't rank up there with an SEC title in football.

I just wonder if the Hawks were to knock off the Celtics how much talk around the average peach flavored water cooler there would be about it. If they won the whole freakin' title I don't think the city would go half as Gonzo as just going to the Super Bowl. (Oh dirty bird where art thou?) My mom played basketball for Berry College way back in the day, and swears it's where I get my game from. I tell her, "no mom, you're from Georgia, you don't know anything about basketball, I'm good, lol". To the GA DBR posters on here PLEASE don't take this as a knock on any of you. From most everything I've read your knowledge of the game however you came to find it is encouraging if not impressive. But anyone could see fans in the city / state tend to be a little "fickle" to put it nicely. I guess unlike NC when you grow up having teams in all the major sports (Go Flames.....I mean Thrashers!) it all gets passe. God knows this state didn't go bonkers when the Hurricane's won the stanley cup like they did when that ugly shade of blue won their last title, so I have no room to talk. And maybe it's being forced to watch the Pathers EVERY bloody week that has me misthinking this state is any more loyal.:rolleyes:

[JasonEvans]

The final item in this rundown of last night's game is fantastic:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/specials/playoffs/2008/05/02/fastbreak.celtics.hawks/index.html?eref=T1

You are aware that about 1/3rd of the "moments" caught by the "Kiss Cam" are staged and taped in advance with actors playing the role of the people who are being asked to kiss, right?

I am sure the girl sitting between two rival fans was one of these.

--Jason "that said, Kiss Cam is funny and fun and my 2 sons adore it" Evans

[slower]

Dude, relax. We root for laundry.

Meaning, I'm guessing, that you pull for the uni and not the particular mammal that occupies it?

Otherwise, I don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about.

[wilson]

Are you really pleased? At what point did you become pleased, last night? When they made the playoffs? I have to say I'd have a lot easier time pulling for the Hawks if Shelden Williams were still playing for them and a certain other Williams was playing in Antartica.

The scene you describe if I do say so doesn't sound like Atlanta at all. My mom was born and raised in Cumming GA (go ahead make jokes, I know I do.) and I have relatives from Cordele to Marietta. For all we know you and I may be cousins. There are a bunch of posters on DBR from GA, particularly Atlanta, native and transplant alike. (Earl Jam doesn't count, he's from Burlington NC originally and the tainted water fried his brain so badly he thinks he's in Atlantis.) But I have thought something for a long time, and don't take this as a slap directed at you Wilson. It's actually directed at the average sports fan in Georgia, many of whom are my relatives. The state of Georgia has some of the worst sports fans in the world.


I remember Dominique's Hawks playing the Bulls in the Omni years ago. The fans down there were pulling for Jordan, IN THE PLAYOFFS! Granted I loathe Jordan for where he went to school, but they were pulling against the home team. Every NBA draft when they make a bad pick that doesn't address needs I laugh and say it serves them right. If Atlanta wanted a good basketball team they should have been pulling for them the last time they had a decent team.

Then we go to the beloved Braves, everyones favorite baseball team from Gafney SC to Gainsville FL. We Duke fans are called spoiled, and perhaps it's with good reason. But a few years back when the Cubs and Braves met in the playoffs, Cubs fans bought up all the away tickets and Turner field had at least an equal number if not more fans than the Braves. I suppose if I were the owner I might just be glad the games were sold out. But knowing my home city didn't care enough about the most popular team in the city to give a homefield advantage? Well imagine Cameron being 50% or more filled with UNC fans durring a Duke vs. UNC mens basketball game. You can't envision it and neither can I.

Next we go to the Falcons who didn't do anything every single year after being in the NFC championship game against the Cowboys to get the right to lose to the Steelers in the 1979 Super Bowl. The city had high hopes, but year after year it got worse and worse. People in Georgia do LOVE some football and they actually know it better than baseball despite the Braves. It's just a shame all hope of the future went down in a dog fight in a Home Depot lot. Blame PETA all you want to, but season ticket sales haven't been anything to smile about since Jimmy Carter was still in office.

Now UNLIKE North Carolina, Georgia knows, loves and appreciates college football UGA and GT both have national titles. (Although GT's last one was a co-champion and UNC tied them that year so it doesn't really count.:D) Game day in Athens or Atlanta is actually a happy time filled with hope, unlike recent autumn Saturdays in the triangle. And next to Ibiza Spain, Mardi Gras and anytime my ex wife drinks absynthe there isn't a bigger party than Florida vs. Georgia in football. GT has been to two Final Fours (oddly enough in the same year as Duke went) but even a national title in basketball wouldn't rank up there with an SEC title in football.

I just wonder if the Hawks were to knock off the Celtics how much talk around the average peach flavored water cooler there would be about it. If they won the whole freakin' title I don't think the city would go half as Gonzo as just going to the Super Bowl. (Oh dirty bird where art thou?) My mom played basketball for Berry College way back in the day, and swears it's where I get my game from. I tell her, "no mom, you're from Georgia, you don't know anything about basketball, I'm good, lol". To the GA DBR posters on here PLEASE don't take this as a knock on any of you. From most everything I've read your knowledge of the game however you came to find it is encouraging if not impressive. But anyone could see fans in the city / state tend to be a little "fickle" to put it nicely. I guess unlike NC when you grow up having teams in all the major sports (Go Flames.....I mean Thrashers!) it all gets passe. God knows this state didn't go bonkers when the Hurricane's won the stanley cup like they did when that ugly shade of blue won their last title, so I have no room to talk. And maybe it's being forced to watch the Pathers EVERY bloody week that has me misthinking this state is any more loyal.:rolleyes:

I'm not sure if you know, but I'm also from Atlanta, and have lived here all my life. I am a big fan of all the Atlanta teams, and always have been. I was pleased about the Hawks back in about December when they started nicely, and have been tracking their rebuild throughout. I attended their last playoff victory before this season (in 1999), and have attended probably 20 Braves playoff games, not to mention countless dozens of regular season ones. I have also seen the Falcons play once a season or so since the Georgia Dome was built, as well as in the playoffs. I love Atlanta, and I love Atlanta teams. I agree that my fellow fans sometimes aren't great, but Kevin Garnett himself said that the atmosphere in Philips Arena has been electric this past week. I can't account for other Atlanta fans, because it's not really my problem. Rather, I support my teams as best I can. You can start a discussion about Atlantans' lack of sporting passion, but you definitely can't challenge mine. I promise I'm as big a fan of these teams as any person is of their hometown squads. EarlJam (and others) will vouch for it.
But thanks for playing.

Also, you misspelled "Antarctica."

[moonpie23]

more classy play from the tarholes.....could not POSSIBLY have been more of a punk move...


way to show your style marvin...

[YmoBeThere]

Never say never, but it is a 28 point lead mid-way through the 3rd period.


(And yes I am breaking my rule of watching NBA playoffs before the Conference championship level.)

[Channing]

I'm not sure if you know, but I'm also from Atlanta, and have lived here all my life. I am a big fan of all the Atlanta teams, and always have been. I was pleased about the Hawks back in about December when they started nicely, and have been tracking their rebuild throughout. I attended their last playoff victory before this season (in 1999), and have attended probably 20 Braves playoff games, not to mention countless dozens of regular season ones. I have also seen the Falcons play once a season or so since the Georgia Dome was built, as well as in the playoffs. I love Atlanta, and I love Atlanta teams. I agree that my fellow fans sometimes aren't great, but Kevin Garnett himself said that the atmosphere in Philips Arena has been electric this past week. I can't account for other Atlanta fans, because it's not really my problem. Rather, I support my teams as best I can. You can start a discussion about Atlantans' lack of sporting passion, but you definitely can't challenge mine. I promise I'm as big a fan of these teams as any person is of their hometown squads. EarlJam (and others) will vouch for it.
But thanks for playing.

Also, you misspelled "Antarctica."

Also bear in mind that a LARGE number of Atlantans are transplants. It is easy for a transplant to root for the home team when they are doing well, but also easy to ignore them when things are not going well.

Second - you mentioned Atlanta fans and UGA fans typically focus much more on college football.

Look at Univ of Illinois. The cubs fans are die hard - but until the last 2 years under Zook they couldnt fill half of their football stadium. Same thing with Boston fans and BC football/ Red Sox.

Even in the mid 90s, when UGA football was not good at all, they were filling Sanford stadium.

Just a couple of thinking points - not necessarily bad sports fans. Perhaps just different sports fans. Just because Atlantans are fans of different sports than other cities doesnt make them bad. One more - Montreal has the Canadiens, and everyone acknowledges that they are mad about their hockey. But the Expos couldn't outdraw a high school baseball game. That doesnt make them bad fans.

Oh, and if you ever go to a race a Nascar race at Atlanta Motor Speedway you would see a max crowd of 125,000 - and dont try telling me those fans arent die hard.

[Channing]

more classy play from the tarholes.....could not POSSIBLY have been more of a punk move...



way to show your style marvin...

what happened - i am not watching on tv.

[JBDuke]

what happened - i am not watching on tv.

Williams fouled Rondo hard on an open court breakaway. He basically tackled Rondo and did not make a play on the ball. In his defense, though, he did try to catch Rondo - I didn't think he was trying to hurt him - just absolutely prevent him from scoring.

It was ruled a Flagrant 2 foul, and Williams was ejected.

[YmoBeThere]

Same thing with Boston fans and BC football/ Red Sox.

A couple of thoughts on this point:

1) BC is a private university and relatively small(8500 undergrads) compared to the other schools you mention, this does limit the number of fans.
2) Boston is a pro sports town, in fact most of the Northeastern cities(Boston, NYC, Philly, etc.) strike me as pro sports towns. In the Southeast, except for Atlanta and recent additons in Florida and North Carolina and Nashville, there isn't the pro competition you might face up here.

[Channing]

A couple of thoughts on this point:

1) BC is a private university and relatively small(8500 undergrads) compared to the other schools you mention, this does limit the number of fans.
2) Boston is a pro sports town, in fact most of the Northeastern cities(Boston, NYC, Philly, etc.) strike me as pro sports towns. In the Southeast, except for Atlanta and recent additons in Florida and North Carolina and Nashville, there isn't the pro competition you might face up here.

#2 is exactly my point. Just because Atlanta fans are more college fans than pro doesnt make them any worse than other fans who are more pro rather than college. I am not saying Atlanta sports fans are as good as Boston's. They arent. I was just making an analogy.

[jimsumner]

"In his defense, though, he did try to catch Rondo "

It appeared to me that he tried to catch him by the neck.

IMO, it was indefensible, dangerous play in a game long since decided. Lots of NBA fouls are designed to stop a basket but don't even approach the danger level of Williams' take-down of Rondo.

[moonpie23]

"In his defense, though, he did try to catch Rondo "

It appeared to me that he tried to catch him by the neck.

IMO, it was indefensible, dangerous play in a game long since decided. Lots of NBA fouls are designed to stop a basket but don't even approach the danger level of Williams' take-down of Rondo.

agreed....3-5 game suspension for marvin would be my guess...just a chump play...

[ugadevil]

IMO, it was indefensible, dangerous play in a game long since decided. Lots of NBA fouls are designed to stop a basket but don't even approach the danger level of Williams' take-down of Rondo.

I found Williams' response of his ejection to be hilarious. Michelle Tafoya reported that Williams said he didn't think it was a flagrant at all and that Rondo is his friend. Uhhhhh....Marvin, it wouldn't matter if it's your childhood sweetheart, you still get ejected.

[hc5duke]

"In his defense, though, he did try to catch Rondo "

It appeared to me that he tried to catch him by the neck.

IMO, it was indefensible, dangerous play in a game long since decided. Lots of NBA fouls are designed to stop a basket but don't even approach the danger level of Williams' take-down of Rondo.

agreed 100%, video here:

http://awfulannouncing.blogspot.com/2008/05/marvin-williams-clotheslines-rajon.html
and
http://ballhype.com/video/marvin_williams_body_slams_rajon_rondo/

[denniden]

That was every bit as hard a foul as you will ever see. Regardless of what Marvin said, it was flagrant. Marvin could have fouled him without closelining him. Bad play and he got what he deserved. I am just thankful that Rondo was no injured and can continue to play.

On another note, I found it funny that Mike Bibby called Celtic fans badwagon fans. Yet how many sellouts did the Hawks have this season before the playoffs?

[billybreen]

agreed 100%, video here:

http://awfulannouncing.blogspot.com/2008/05/marvin-williams-clotheslines-rajon.html
and
http://ballhype.com/video/marvin_williams_body_slams_rajon_rondo/

As you say, 'stay classy, Carolina.'

[ugadevil]

On another note, I found it funny that Mike Bibby called Celtic fans badwagon fans. Yet how many sellouts did the Hawks have this season before the playoffs?

Whoa Whoa Whoa! Are you calling Atlanta fans bandwagon? A significant percentage of them NEVER care about the pro teams, even when they're good.

[JasonEvans]

I was watching for a while in the first half when the Hawks were behind but still in the game. Then I had some stuff to get done so I went away from the game for about 30 minutes.

I came back and turned to TV on to see if the Hawks were making a run. The score popped up...

70 - 34 mid way through the 3rd quarter.

I was dumbfounded. That's a Duke vs. (overmatched directional school in December) score. DAMN! What a beatdown the Celtics put on the Hawks.

Still, the Hawks can be proud of how well they played at home. This team is close to being a real contender. All they need is a new PG, a legit C, a creative coach, and a front office with a clue and they are right in there. Oh, they also need to get rid of thier starting SF. But they are really close.

--Jason "Marvin Williams will be suspended for the first few games of next season so the Hawks may get off to a hot start next year" Evans

[CDu]

Meaning, I'm guessing, that you pull for the uni and not the particular mammal that occupies it?

Otherwise, I don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about.

It's an old Seinfeld bit from back in the day. Since the players change teams so much, we're basically just cheering for laundry (i.e., the uniforms).

[CDu]

All they need is a new PG, a legit C, a creative coach, and a front office with a clue and they are right in there. Oh, they also need to get rid of thier starting SF. But they are really close.

--Jason "Marvin Williams will be suspended for the first few games of next season so the Hawks may get off to a hot start next year" Evans

I still don't get your hatred for Marvin Williams as an NBA player. He averaged 15 points per game for a team with two big-time presences essentially at his position. He has actually turned into a pretty solid SF in the NBA.

The biggest knock against Williams that I can see is that he's not Chris Paul and he's not Deron Williams. But just because he hasn't become an NBA All-Star doesn't mean he's a bad player. And not having him available won't actually make the Hawks a better team.

[Channing]

Still, the Hawks can be proud of how well they played at home. This team is close to being a real contender. All they need is a new PG, a legit C, a creative coach, and a front office with a clue and they are right in there. Oh, they also need to get rid of thier starting SF. But they are really close.


i was thinking that - then I heard some commentator say that nobody is really locked up long term here - I think Joe Johnson and Horford are locked up the longest, for 3 more years. In that span just about everyone's contract comes due, and it is quite possible some players are going to try and go elsewhere.

[JasonEvans]

Who knew that the Hawks backup center was really Borat (http://deadspin.com/386856/sacha-baron-cohens-new-guy-is-tall) in disguise??!?!

-Jason " :D " Evans

[slower]

It's an old Seinfeld bit from back in the day. Since the players change teams so much, we're basically just cheering for laundry (i.e., the uniforms).

I guess if he'd said "we CHEER for laundry", I would have made the connection.

[moonpie23]

i will give marvin a pass THIS time cause he HAS had many opportunities to "punk out" and has pretty much been a good case of jumping to the big leagues..

with the money and life of an nba player, it would be easy for a kid of less character to fall down......



but that was a chump move and it gave me another small reason to hate on unc due to guilt by association...

[CDu]

I guess if he'd said "we CHEER for laundry", I would have made the connection.

Is there a difference between rooting and cheering?

[slower]

Is there a difference between rooting and cheering?


There is if you're trying to Google a phrase!

[CDu]

There is if you're trying to Google a phrase!

Ah, I see. Touche.

[gvtucker]

A couple of thoughts on this point:

1) BC is a private university and relatively small(8500 undergrads) compared to the other schools you mention, this does limit the number of fans.
2) Boston is a pro sports town, in fact most of the Northeastern cities(Boston, NYC, Philly, etc.) strike me as pro sports towns. In the Southeast, except for Atlanta and recent additons in Florida and North Carolina and Nashville, there isn't the pro competition you might face up here.

I think that's a big misconception.

Case in point is the notion that Boston is a "pro sports town" and that's why the attendance at BC games isn't very good.

Until this past year, the Celtics didn't draw well at all. Whatevertheycalltheirarenanowadays wsa never, ever full. Of course, this is mostly because the Celtics stunk.

Of course, Boston is hockey country, not basketball country, so that is a big reason behind the Celtics' attendance problems of years past. But if you look at the NHL Bruins, they don't draw well, either. Heck, the Carolina Hurricanes draw better than the Bruins. In fact, hockey is more of a college sport in the area. BU and BC routinely sell out games.

Yes, the Red Sox sell out, consistently. But it is no coincidence that the Red Sox have been very good lately.

[wilson]

I think that's a big misconception.

Case in point is the notion that Boston is a "pro sports town" and that's why the attendance at BC games isn't very good.

Until this past year, the Celtics didn't draw well at all. Whatevertheycalltheirarenanowadays wsa never, ever full. Of course, this is mostly because the Celtics stunk.

Of course, Boston is hockey country, not basketball country, so that is a big reason behind the Celtics' attendance problems of years past. But if you look at the NHL Bruins, they don't draw well, either. Heck, the Carolina Hurricanes draw better than the Bruins. In fact, hockey is more of a college sport in the area. BU and BC routinely sell out games.

Yes, the Red Sox sell out, consistently. But it is no coincidence that the Red Sox have been very good lately.

Similarly, a prominent conversation item in the earlygoing of yesterday's radio broadcast was the fact that the Garden had a noticeable number of empty seats upstairs (for Game 7!), while Philips Arena drew three record crowds during the same series. I contend that Atlanta fans are not markedly more fickle than any others, and I'm positive that the old meme about bad Atlanta fans is one of the more overblown things in all of sports.

[wilson]

Billy Knight is stepping down.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/05/07/hawks_0508.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

[Lavabe]

Billy Knight, GM of the Atlanta Hawks, has resigned this morning.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2008/05/07/hawks_0508.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Will hold onto DBR job waves until after the interview process begins.;)
Cheers,
Lavabe

[SilkyJ]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3385104

Silky "This will make Jason Evans happy" J

[wilson]

Is there an echo in here?
Is there an echo in here?;)

[SilkyJ]

tried to delete but can't. sorry...sorry...sorry...

[shadowfax336]

and unbelievably Jason has yet to comment

[shadowfax336]

According to John Hollinger at ESPN, Billy King is rumored to be the next GM

[shadowfax336]

and I mean anybody who plays Chess knows that you always have to sacrifice a Knight for a King...