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NYC Duke Fan
04-20-2008, 07:21 AM
If you look at it from the outside you could say that Duke Women's Basketball is one of the top 20 programs in the country.However, if you examine it really closely you would be disappointed. A few years ago, Duke was right up there with the 2 powerhouses, UCONN and Tennessee under Coach G, and dominated ACC basketball.

Now, we lag far behind UCONN, ( Ellena Della Donne is going there and will team with the young team that they had this year), and Tennessee, ( who recruited 5 McDonald's All Americans). UNC and Maryland have come up to us and probably have overtaken us in the ACC, and I bet that Texas under Coach G will soon be there also.

I see Duke being a very good team but not be one of the top programs any more and not challenging for a national championship in the near future.

As I said, it is disappointing to see the program drop from being one of the elite programs to being just a very good one.

CameronBornAndBred
04-20-2008, 07:59 AM
I believe that we are a top 10 program. This year was rough, but you'd expect that with a change like they endured. I think next year will be a much better one to make judgements from. I wasn't thrilled with all of the coaching this year, I think we had some bright spots of promise.
We played well in the post season, including a great performance against Md. In our games against Tennessee, Rutgers, Md. (Reg season), and the first one against UNC we showed we could play with anyone. Next year I'd expect to win a few more of those, but we only really looked bad twice. (UCONN, which I don't count because it was sooo early in a season of change, and the 2cnd UNC game, which was just a disaster.) I'm looking forward to next year, I'll think the program will be just fine.

godukecom
04-20-2008, 08:20 AM
the first one against UNC we showed we could play with anyone.

What about that game (which was an exhibition of poor defense, rebounding, offense, and overall lackluster play) showed you the Duke could play with anyone? The first game duke lost by 17, iirc.

CameronBornAndBred
04-20-2008, 08:39 AM
You're right, I was thinking both Md. games. Both carolina ones were a disaster.

NYC Duke Fan
04-20-2008, 09:19 AM
I believe that we are a top 10 program. This year was rough, but you'd expect that with a change like they endured. I think next year will be a much better one to make judgements from. I wasn't thrilled with all of the coaching this year, I think we had some bright spots of promise.
We played well in the post season, including a great performance against Md. In our games against Tennessee, Rutgers, Md. (Reg season), and the first one against UNC we showed we could play with anyone. Next year I'd expect to win a few more of those, but we only really looked bad twice. (UCONN, which I don't count because it was sooo early in a season of change, and the 2cnd UNC game, which was just a disaster.) I'm looking forward to next year, I'll think the program will be just fine.

I agree the program will be fine, but not elite as we were a few years back. I see no chance of competing for a National Championship in the very near future, especially since as was posted on another thread that Coach P is not a very good recruiter

godukerocks
04-20-2008, 12:02 PM
I agree the program will be fine, but not elite as we were a few years back. I see no chance of competing for a National Championship in the very near future, especially since as was posted on another thread that Coach P is not a very good recruiter

FWIW, Sports Illustrated has us at #3 for next year.

brevity
04-20-2008, 01:51 PM
Duke can place as low as 3rd among ACC perennial powers and still be a top 10 program. UNC, Maryland, and Duke from the ACC, Connecticut and Rutgers from the Big East, Tennessee and LSU from the SEC, Oklahoma, and Stanford. That's 9 teams, giving a little leeway to add Baylor or maybe Notre Dame.


FWIW, Sports Illustrated has us at #3 for next year.

Out of curiosity, is this the print version? Because SI's Tracy Schultz has us at #5.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/tracy_schultz/04/09/top.ten/index.html

I think next year's Final Four will be anything but business as usual. The biggest names of this season lose too much to graduation. That's not to say that a young UConn team (led by a soph and a frosh) can't stay on top, but that it's tougher without that extra senior leadership to slug their way through the closer games.

Duke should rebound nicely. And watch out for Cal.

bludev03
04-20-2008, 03:05 PM
UConn will have Maya Moore, Tina Charles, EDD, and Renee Montgomery in the same lineup. Scaaaaaaaaaaary! :eek:

BlueintheFace
04-20-2008, 03:12 PM
As I said, it is disappointing to see the program drop from being one of the elite programs to being just a very good one.

It might be disappointing, but it certainly isn't unexpected... and if it is then it might be time to follow a new sport.

If you lose the best post player in the nation (Bales), the best point guard/all around player in the nation (Harding), and one of the best coaches in the nation (Coach G) ALL IN ONE YEAR... I mean, come on. It was bound to be a down year.

Indoor66
04-20-2008, 04:10 PM
It might be disappointing, but it certainly isn't unexpected... and if it is then it might be time to follow a new sport.

If you lose the best post player in the nation (Bales), the best point guard/all around player in the nation (Harding), and one of the best coaches in the nation (Coach G) ALL IN ONE YEAR... I mean, come on. It was bound to be a down year.

...And this down year team made the Sweet Sixteen!

Inonehand
04-20-2008, 05:45 PM
will get Duke back to the level we were a couple of years ago. While I believe the team could have played better during the regular season, Gail wouldn't have coached this team to a deeper finish in either tournament...it just didn't have the talent. When a beloved coach leaves, there will be tough moments adjusting to different personalities. It just happens. Duke will be back because kids want to come here and Coach P is a good coach. One thing I noticed from her was amazing composure during the tournament. That I was impressed with.

Bluedawg
04-20-2008, 06:00 PM
If you look at it from the outside you could say that Duke Women's Basketball is one of the top 20 programs in the country.However, if you examine it really closely you would be disappointed. A few years ago, Duke was right up there with the 2 powerhouses, UCONN and Tennessee under Coach G, and dominated ACC basketball.

Now, we lag far behind UCONN, ( Ellena Della Donne is going there and will team with the young team that they had this year), and Tennessee, ( who recruited 5 McDonald's All Americans). UNC and Maryland have come up to us and probably have overtaken us in the ACC, and I bet that Texas under Coach G will soon be there also.

I see Duke being a very good team but not be one of the top programs any more and not challenging for a national championship in the near future.

As I said, it is disappointing to see the program drop from being one of the elite programs to being just a very good one.

I could not disagree more! to base this off of a coaches first year is unfair and wrong.



WOMEN'S BASKETBALL RANKINGS (http://www.ncaa.com/basketball-womens/default.aspx?id=136)
W Basketball AP

1 Connecticut 1249
2 North Carolina 1188
3 Tennessee 1158
4 Stanford 1091
5 Maryland 1027
6 LSU 1014
7 Rutgers 952
8 Texas A&M 858
9 Duke 817
10 California 788
11 Old Dominion 711
12 Baylor 705
13 Oklahoma State 552
14 Oklahoma 535
15 Notre Dame 477
16 Kansas State 436
17 West Virginia 434
18 Utah 426
19 Louisville 371
20 George Washington 352
21 Vanderbilt 263
22 Marist 222
23 UTEP 218
24 Virginia 113
25 Ohio State 86

Texas didn't make the top 25, so, since you based your evaluation on one years performance, what is your foundation for your Texas praise?


I agree the program will be fine, but not elite as we were a few years back. I see no chance of competing for a National Championship in the very near future, especially since as was posted on another thread that Coach P is not a very good recruiter

They wanted to run Coach K out his first year as well. Aren't you glad they didn't??????

godukerocks
04-20-2008, 06:12 PM
Out of curiosity, is this the print version? Because SI's Tracy Schultz has us at #5.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/tracy_schultz/04/09/top.ten/index.html

I think next year's Final Four will be anything but business as usual. The biggest names of this season lose too much to graduation. That's not to say that a young UConn team (led by a soph and a frosh) can't stay on top, but that it's tougher without that extra senior leadership to slug their way through the closer games.

Duke should rebound nicely. And watch out for Cal.


In the latest issue, Richard Deitsch has us at #3.

godukecom
04-20-2008, 06:41 PM
Duke's success this past year was largely due to the fact that Gail's "leftover" talented recruits (Waner, Black, Smith, Thomas, etc) would simply overpower the lesser teams in a weak acc. Duke had little success when facing a team that was on an equal playing field talent wise.

If P can keep the talent pool high, then that will be great. The jury is still out on her, and a verdict must wait for the time being.

cbfx3
04-20-2008, 08:03 PM
We will be fine...

Duvall
04-20-2008, 08:17 PM
We will be fine...

I have little doubt of this. But a program that is "fine" will not win a national championship, will not win an ACC championship and will not beat North Carolina.

JG Nothing
04-20-2008, 08:29 PM
Coach P will get Duke back to the level we were a couple of years ago. While I believe the team could have played better during the regular season, Gail wouldn't have coached this team to a deeper finish in either tournament...it just didn't have the talent.

This team "just didn't have the talent?" G left McCallie with eight McDonald's All-Americans and three other Parade All-Americans. That is an insane amount of talent. How much talent do you want? By the way, what kind of talent did McCallie leave for Merchant at Michigan State?
To say that G would not have coached this team to a better finish in the ACC or NCAA tournaments is pure speculation and too quickly discounts G's coaching abilities. G had seven straight 30 win seasons between 2000 and 2007. Her teams would reload, not rebuild. You do not seem to appreciate what a truly great coach and recruiter G was.
I hope you are right that McCallie gets us back to perennial 30 win seasons. G left her all the parts to do it next season. However, unless McCallie can recruit at G's level, I seriously doubt it will happen in the long term. My fear is that we have hired a Bruce Weber instead of a Bill Self.

hughgs
04-20-2008, 08:36 PM
This team "just didn't have the talent?" G left McCallie with eight McDonald's All-Americans and three other Parade All-Americans. That is an insane amount of talent. How much talent do you want? By the way, what kind of talent did McCallie leave for Merchant at Michigan State?
To say that G would not have coached this team to a better finish in the ACC or NCAA tournaments is pure speculation and too quickly discounts G's coaching abilities. G had seven straight 30 win seasons between 2000 and 2007. Her teams would reload, not rebuild. You do not seem to appreciate what a truly great coach and recruiter G was.
I hope you are right that McCallie gets us back to perennial 30 win seasons. G left her all the parts to do it next season. However, unless McCallie can recruit at G's level, I seriously doubt it will happen in the long term. My fear is that we have hired a Bruce Weber instead of a Bill Self.

Pot, meet kettle. Since Coach G wasn't here to coach the team you have no way of knowing how the team would've done if she had stayed. Second, you are assuming that the high school rankings apply to the college game. And you're not taking into account the differences between the types of players that Coach G recruited and the type players that would've thrived in the offense and defense that Coach P ran. It's all speculation.

JG Nothing
04-20-2008, 09:24 PM
Pot, meet kettle. Since Coach G wasn't here to coach the team you have no way of knowing how the team would've done if she had stayed. Second, you are assuming that the high school rankings apply to the college game. And you're not taking into account the differences between the types of players that Coach G recruited and the type players that would've thrived in the offense and defense that Coach P ran. It's all speculation.

My speculation is based on past performance. In 2004, we lose Beard and Tillis. The next year we go 31-5. In 2006, we lose Currie and Bass-Williams. The next year we go 32-2. Yes, we lost Harding and Bales in 2007, but we also got Black back after a season ending injury. There has been virtually no drop off in overall year-to-year performance by G's teams since the 1999 run to the Final Four. She has a track record of nine straight years of consistent excellence. That is not speculation, that is fact. It seems to me the burden of proof is on people who do not think G would have done better than McCallie with last year's team.
Also, you are correct, I am assuming that high school rankings do tell us something about college potential. Anyway you cut it, eight McDonald's All-Americans is eight McDonald's All-Americans. If you honestly think that is meaningless, then what can I say. If McCallie is unable or unwilling to take full advantage of the wealth of talent and athleticism she inherited from G, whose fault is that?

Duvall
04-20-2008, 09:32 PM
It's all speculation.

It's speculation informed by the historic performance of two coaches with lengthy track records. You can't compete at the top levels of women's basketball without recruiting elite players, and a lot of them. Gail is one of the top recruiters in the game; McCallie's recruiting has historically been mediocre by high major standards.

And that's that.

KandG
04-20-2008, 09:36 PM
unless McCallie can recruit at G's level, I seriously doubt it will happen in the long term. My fear is that we have hired a Bruce Weber instead of a Bill Self.


Bingo. I'm willing to give her another year to see how her system plays out, but I have concerns...as I'm sure many fans do.

yancem
04-20-2008, 09:37 PM
This was a difficult season on many fronts and while I believe that this years squad would have performed better under Coach G, I don't think that you can properly evaluate Coach P based on one season. Coach G assembled this years team to fit her coaching style. If she had stayed then they wouldn't have learned a new offense and defense, in a word there would have been continuity.

Yes this team had a lot of talent but learning a different style of play and coaching can be difficult. We won't know how successful coach P can be until the current players gel playing her style of basketball and she has a chance to bring in players to fit her system. All of the talent in the world doesn't mean a thing if it doesn't match the playing style.

I think that coach P probably can coach well enough, the biggest question is can Coach P and her staff recruit the top tier talent. Duke certainly has the academic and basketball tradition attract interest from the best, so here's to hoping that coach P and her staff can seal the deal on some major talent.

Bluedawg
04-20-2008, 10:15 PM
Duke's success this past year was largely due to the fact that Gail's "leftover" talented recruits (Waner, Black, Smith, Thomas, etc) would simply overpower the lesser teams in a weak acc. Duke had little success when facing a team that was on an equal playing field talent wise.

If P can keep the talent pool high, then that will be great. The jury is still out on her, and a verdict must wait for the time being.

We are getting two 5 star and one 4 star recruits. Most people would be happy about that. I believe only one of the 5 star recruits was G's

Bluedawg
04-20-2008, 10:17 PM
This team "just didn't have the talent?" G left McCallie with eight McDonald's All-Americans and three other Parade All-Americans. That is an insane amount of talent. How much talent do you want? By the way, what kind of talent did McCallie leave for Merchant at Michigan State?
To say that G would not have coached this team to a better finish in the ACC or NCAA tournaments is pure speculation and too quickly discounts G's coaching abilities. G had seven straight 30 win seasons between 2000 and 2007. Her teams would reload, not rebuild. You do not seem to appreciate what a truly great coach and recruiter G was.
I hope you are right that McCallie gets us back to perennial 30 win seasons. G left her all the parts to do it next season. However, unless McCallie can recruit at G's level, I seriously doubt it will happen in the long term. My fear is that we have hired a Bruce Weber instead of a Bill Self.

G left her a team that played G's style of game. They had to learn an entirely new system and style of play.

Bluedawg
04-20-2008, 10:37 PM
G is a great coach and a great recruiter. I hated to see her go and will always miss her. her team at Texas this year went 7-9 in the conference and 22-13 overall and didn't finish in the top 25. Does this mean that Texas needs to fire her. NO! This means that they need to wait until she recruits players to play her style of play. Will she get Texas to 30 win seasons...yes she will.

Duke went 10-4 in the conference and 25-10 overall. Duke got to the sweet 16 and was ranked 9th overall. this was done with a team recruited to play G's style play and spent the season learning an entirely new system. Should P be fired because she didn't win 30 games..please. Will she get back up to 30 win seasons...yes.

Do both coaches need time to be able to recruit players to play their style of play...absolutely.

Should our team be proud of their season..absolutely. it shows what an extremely talented team they are in that they could take a new offense and defense and take it to a 9th ranking and a sweet 16. We should be praising them and crediting them for a good season amid trying times.

JG Nothing
04-20-2008, 10:40 PM
G left her a team that played G's style of game. They had to learn an entirely new system and style of play.

When McCallie was hired she explicitly said she would adapt her system to the strengths and athleticism of the Duke players she inherited. From the accounts I have read, that never happened. McCallie continued to use the system she had used at Michigan State.

Here is the DW Hoops report on McCallie after she was hired:

On the subject of what system Duke would run, Coach P noted that she changed styles when she went to the Big Ten from Maine, and will change & evolve given the challenge of the ACC and the very different kind of players Duke has; she stated "I have changed before and I will change again". She used the matchup zone and a halfcourt offense because she was limited in the kind of players she could get and specific roster problems that she faced. Given a roster with little depth, lateral quickness or leaping ability, it was necessary for her to use a system that hid her team's flaws and maximized her strengths. It's quite clear that at Duke, she's going to throw out most of what they did at both ends of the floor. It was obvious that she was licking her chops at the chance to coach run-and-jump athletes for the first time, and I think everyone was relieved to hear that she wouldn't try to fit a square peg into a round hole. At the same time, Duke's players were quite comfortable in playing many different kinds of offenses and defenses, using zones in certain situations and executing quite efficiently in a halfcourt offense last season. The greatest hallmark of Duke's players has always been their versatility, and it will be interesting to see if Coach P continues to exploit this aspect of the team. It'll also be interesting to see how she adjusts as a coach playing against UNC's combination of power & speed as well as Maryland's lethal array of scorers.

Bluedawg
04-20-2008, 10:49 PM
When McCallie was hired she explicitly said she would adapt her system to the strengths and athleticism of the Duke players she inherited. From the accounts I have read, that never happened. McCallie continued to use the system she had used at Michigan State.

Here is the DW Hoops report on McCallie after she was hired:

On defense at Michigan State she ran a straight match-up zone. here she threw in a lot more man-to-man than she did at Michigan State. Why, Duke's team was more talented and can play the man defense.



It was obvious that she was licking her chops at the chance to coach run-and-jump athletes for the first time,

And she did run a lot in transition. that was a big part of their game.

You said... "From the accounts I have read"

Did you see many of the women's games?

JG Nothing
04-20-2008, 11:02 PM
Duke went 10-4 in the conference and 25-10 overall. Duke got to the sweet 16 and was ranked 9th overall. this was done with a team recruited to play G's style play and spent the season learning an entirely new system. Should P be fired because she didn't win 30 games..please. Will she get back up to 30 win seasons...yes.

Do both coaches need time to be able to recruit players to play their style of play...absolutely.

Should our team be proud of their season..absolutely. it shows what an extremely talented team they are in that they could take a new offense and defense and take it to a 9th ranking and a sweet 16. We should be praising them crediting them for a good season amid trying times.

No one on this board is calling for McCallie to be fired. People, however, are expressing reservations. McCallie said she would adapt to the talent at Duke and not vice versa. She did not. In addition, McCallie's attiitude towards recruiting is not particularly inspiring. She was not an elite recruiter at Michigan State and I am sure Duke has much higher admission standards.
There is also an elephant in the corner of this conversation. Anyone who followed Duke basketball this past season knows that learning a new system was not the team's primary problem.

Wander
04-20-2008, 11:07 PM
There are two things that are extremely clear to me:

1. There is absolutely no way that Coach P should be fired after this season. Are people really suggesting this seriously and if so can someone please slap them in the face for me? She's done absolutely nothing to deserve losing her job after one year.

2. Coach P did not have a good first year. We made the Sweet 16, finished ranked #9 or whatever it was in the regular season, blah blah blah. That's not to say that making the Sweet 16 is meaningless - it isn't - but we were consistently beaten by good teams. We lost our games to those jackasses down the road by a combined 61 points! That is never acceptable - never! And if I ever read/hear another quote by Coach P whining that we don't have talent on our team, I'm throwing my computer/TV out the damn window. Chante and Abby are completely capable of being All-Americans.

When it comes down to it, it's too early to make a judgement about where our program is. Give it another year or two...

Duvall
04-20-2008, 11:17 PM
Should P be fired because she didn't win 30 games..please. Will she get back up to 30 win seasons...yes.


What makes you think that she will? She's had one 30-win season in her career thus far.

JG Nothing
04-20-2008, 11:48 PM
On defense at Michigan State she ran a straight match-up zone. here she threw in a lot more man-to-man than she did at Michigan State. Why, Duke's team was more talented and can play the man defense.

And she did run a lot in transition. that was a big part of their game.

You said... "From the accounts I have read"

Did you see many of the women's games?

No, unfortunately I am not able to see many of the women's games, which is why I clearly qualified my comment. However, I have corresponded with long-time fans who have and they feel McCallie is maintaining the same basic approach she used at Michigan State. Also, that seems to be the opinion of several very well-known and knowledgeable fans on the Devil's Den forum. If I am misinformed, then I apologize. I am happy to hear you report that McCallie did not try to force Duke into a post-oriented, half court offense, when there is so much athleticism on the team.

JG Nothing
04-21-2008, 10:42 AM
Just to clarify, the following comment from the Devil's Den Women's Hoops forum succinctly sums up what friends tell me and what I have read from knowledgeable posters.
"The real turmoil [on the women's team], however, was not understanding player personnal and skillset and running a Big Ten offense in the ACC."
This comment was posted by CamrnCrz1974, a correspondent for Full Court Press and serious observer/fan of the Duke women and women's basketball in general. I am not in a position to argue whether or not this characterization is accurate, but CamrnCrz1974 has established a good reputation over time (and I also trust my friends).

Bluedawg
04-21-2008, 11:41 AM
McCallie said she would adapt to the talent at Duke and not vice versa. She did not.

I've pointed out to you defensively your comment is untrue. Although i didn't follow Mich State my understanding was she played a half court offense while at Duke she played a running transitional offense. So Offensively your statement is also untrue. Please stop posting it.

GrayHare
04-21-2008, 12:01 PM
... while at Duke she played a running transitional offense.

Quite correct. Provided that by "a running transitional offense" you mean one that begins with a half-court set and in which guards pass up open jump shots for passes into the post. That it worked at all is a tribute to Chante's ability to score despite defenders draped all over her.

And since it seems to matter, I was only at 15 of the games this season.

CamrnCrz1974
04-21-2008, 02:28 PM
I've pointed out to you defensively your comment is untrue. Although i didn't follow Mich State my understanding was she played a half court offense while at Duke she played a running transitional offense. So Offensively your statement is also untrue. Please stop posting it.

Actually, Bluedawg, YOUR statement is not true. Duke ran a halfcourt offense this year...and a very simple one at that. And I did watch Michigan State play...and there were very few differences between the Spartan's offense and Duke's offense.

Since McCallie has been at Duke, Duke is very easy to defend. The ball goes into Chante Black in the post. If she can make a move, she does. If not, she passes it out. Ball gets passed around the perimeter. If Cheek/Gay or Chante can post up, ball goes back in. If not, someone creates a shot one-on-one (Jasmine Thomas driving and pulling up from the elbow, Cheek/Gay trying a spin move, Waner launching a three).. That covers at least 80 percent of the sets Duke ran this past year.

The best part about Gail was the variety in her offensive sets (allowing guards to post up, post players to take jumpers). Gail was a master at inverting guards and forwards/post players so any player could score from most places on the court. She would post up the smaller players, get players to the line, and force someone other than the point guard to have to handle the ball. McCallie has no such vision or creativity.

As for the numbers...

This season, Duke had its worst overall shooting percentage since 1981-1982, when Duke shot 41.7 percent from the floor. The last time Duke shot below 33 percent from three was in 1990-1991, when Duke shot 23.1 percent from the floor. This year’s Duke team had the third lowest three-point shooting percentage in school history.

The number of assists was the lowest since 1997-1998, but Duke played 32 games that year and had 510 assists (as opposed to 35 games this year with 524 assists). Duke only had 470 assists in 1996-1997, but only played 30 games (about 15.6 assists per game, as opposed to this year, when Duke averaged 14.9 assists per game).

Inonehand
04-21-2008, 04:35 PM
We didn't shoot well because we only had one good outside shooter and she didn't shoot well...all year. We didn't have as many assists because we were adjusting to life without an experienced point guard. Jasmine Thomas will be a very good point guard at Duke and I can't see Abby shooting this poorly again next year.

CamrnCrz1974
04-21-2008, 05:20 PM
We didn't shoot well because we only had one good outside shooter and she didn't shoot well...all year. We didn't have as many assists because we were adjusting to life without an experienced point guard. Jasmine Thomas will be a very good point guard at Duke and I can't see Abby shooting this poorly again next year.

We didn't shoot well because the offense wasn't designed to set hard screens.

The assists argument is simply not true. Duke lost Harding to suspension and had to use a freshman shooting guard (Wanisha Smith) as the point...and Nish still got 154 assists that year, with much better ball movement. Why? The offense was designed to fit the personnel.

hughgs
04-21-2008, 05:54 PM
We didn't shoot well because the offense wasn't designed to set hard screens.

The assists argument is simply not true. Duke lost Harding to suspension and had to use a freshman shooting guard (Wanisha Smith) as the point...and Nish still got 154 assists that year, with much better ball movement. Why? The offense was designed to fit the personnel.

At that point in Coach G's tenure I think it would be truer to say that the personnel were designed to fit the offense. I think your view would be truer if Coach G changed her offensive scheme to account for Harding's suspension.

Inonehand
04-21-2008, 05:58 PM
Hard screens? We constantly missed wide open three pointers! As for Nish at point, she was surrounded by better talent. Be honest with yourself, this team was not as talented as the teams with Bales, Harding, Currie, Beard and Schweitzer (later). They just weren't. Give the woman a chance and see if she can make it happen. I loved Gail a ton and I wish she hadn't left but she left a team that wasn't as good as her more recent products.

CamrnCrz1974
04-21-2008, 06:39 PM
I think your view would be truer if Coach G changed her offensive scheme to account for Harding's suspension.

Coach G did just that, changing the offense from a perimeter-oriented one to one that emphasized creating off the dribble and scoring in the post.

CamrnCrz1974
04-21-2008, 06:43 PM
Hard screens? We constantly missed wide open three pointers! As for Nish at point, she was surrounded by better talent. Be honest with yourself, this team was not as talented as the teams with Bales, Harding, Currie, Beard and Schweitzer (later). They just weren't. Give the woman a chance and see if she can make it happen. I loved Gail a ton and I wish she hadn't left but she left a team that wasn't as good as her more recent products.


Not surrounded with talent? Apparently EIGHT McDonald's All-Americans (and there others who were Parade All-Americans) isn't talent!!! The talent argument defies logic.

Gail still won 28 games in 1999-2000 after losing six seniors and having no healthy point guard (forcing Georgia to play there). That team won Duke's first ACC Tournament title.

The 2004-2005 team had Currie, a solid Mistie Bass, and that was about it. Everyone else was a freshman or a roleplayer. That team had lost Beard, Tillis, Krapohl, Hunter, and Harding (suspension)...and still won 31 games and made the Elite Eight.

What Gail did was DEVELOP players so that when others gradauted, the younger players could step in. Duke lost Currie, Williams, and Foley, but still went 32-2 last year. Why? She developed Harding and Bales.

Gail left a team that wasn't as good as her more recent products? More like Duke was left with a coach who isn't as good as Gail. Coaches are salivating over the talent Duke has. The problem is Duke does not have a coach who is smart enough or creative enough to design an offense to maximize the talent. Instead, she runs a Big Ten offense in the ACC.

MHTorringjan
04-21-2008, 06:54 PM
I actually agree with a lot of what's being said here on both sides of the debate. I personally agree that the offense was a bit unidimensional at times, so it'd be nice if we could see more than "ball goes in to Chante." But while it seemed that the offense (particularly from the outside) was stagnant at times, I saw glimpses of what's to come in the coming years. I actually like the speed that we have in Abby and Jasmine (especially Jasmine, since she's got some rockets on her feet), and Krystal was showing much better ability to back up Chante at the end of the season.

One thing that I can't help but wonder is, at the beginning of the season, they talked a lot about the new training regimen that was put in place, increasing strength conditioning in all the players. Is it possible that this new emphasis on strength development threw off the guards' shots? Sure, they probably would have adjusted to it over time, but I'm just wondering. Otherwise, Bluedawg has posted a thorough analysis in some of the other threads about the changes in the overall system that could contribute to the decline in offensive production.

I think that with the development of the players and additional time to get used to the system and the coach, we're going to see an improvement of the team over this past year (assuming Coach P can go out and get some good recruiting classes for the next couple of seasons). I wouldn't say things are bad, because (a) we've only seen one season post-Goestenkors and (b) we really did show improvement towards the end of the season.

WRT the preseason rankings for next year, I don't place much value in them, as I really think they've got UMd ranked too high and UNC ranked too low (ESPN's got UMD at 2nd, but they lost too much this year, and while UNC lost a lot, I think they're set for the foreseeable future; 9 may be a bit low).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. As much as the rumors of turmoil do trouble me, I'm still looking forward to next season.

M.H.

Inonehand
04-21-2008, 09:50 PM
CameronCrzy1974, or something like that, your stance is obvious. And deeply felt. No need to argue that. Bottom line, Gail left. She wasn't asked to leave. Nobody hoped she'd leave. She wanted to leave. She left a great job and a school that, I think, all of us love. Her choice. I personally believe Duke hired a very good replacement. She came into a job where her players were still longing for their old coach. Things weren't the same for them and it was not always a smooth situation. I believe, with time, Joanne will do a great job here. She deserves some support. We do have some very good players and I never said the cupboard was bare when she got here. However, I don't think Brenda, Sylvia, Geno, or Pat were salivating over our team. Their teams, their talent, was above ours. And a few others were as well. If it remains that way, then you have an arguement against Coach P. Right now, you simply have sour grapes.

CamrnCrz1974
04-22-2008, 12:04 AM
CameronCrzy1974, or something like that, your stance is obvious. And deeply felt. No need to argue that. Bottom line, Gail left. She wasn't asked to leave. Nobody hoped she'd leave. She wanted to leave. She left a great job and a school that, I think, all of us love. Her choice. I personally believe Duke hired a very good replacement. She came into a job where her players were still longing for their old coach. Things weren't the same for them and it was not always a smooth situation. I believe, with time, Joanne will do a great job here. She deserves some support. We do have some very good players and I never said the cupboard was bare when she got here. However, I don't think Brenda, Sylvia, Geno, or Pat were salivating over our team. Their teams, their talent, was above ours. And a few others were as well. If it remains that way, then you have an arguement against Coach P. Right now, you simply have sour grapes.

Sorry, but those excuses do not hold water.

This isn't about Gail leaving. This is about McCallie being an inferior Xs and Os coach. She did less with more.

UNC was in the same situation...losing an All-American post player and using a freshman point guard, plus losing a decorated post player. UNC did NOT have more individual talent, but the offense at UNC was designed to take advantage of the players' strengths. The offense at Duke was the only offense McCallie knows how to run.

Bluedawg
04-22-2008, 08:36 AM
I think that with the development of the players and additional time to get used to the system and the coach, we're going to see an improvement of the team over this past year (assuming Coach P can go out and get some good recruiting classes for the next couple of seasons). I wouldn't say things are bad, because (a) we've only seen one season post-Goestenkors and (b) we really did show improvement towards the end of the season.

M.H.

I agree. The problem is that any coach who follows a legend, like G is at Duke, will have problems. Those opposed to Coach P will always be there regardless of what happened. If she had won a NC this year then it would have been G's championship and P would still have to prove herself.

I think there is hope for the team under P. One year does not a trend make. I do have some strategy differences with her, but i do with every coach in every sport i watch. I do think she was too focused on the inside game and the team seemed to force the ball inside too much, but that may be part of the learning curve trying to adapt to a new system. Only time will tell.

Are they on the verge of falling out of the elite status? Absolutely not! I still think the hire was a good one and I'm still a strong supporter of Coach P.

Bluedawg
04-22-2008, 09:27 AM
And since it seems to matter, I was only at 15 of the games this season.

the reason I brought it up was it was beginning to look like some of the arguments against Coach P were coming from people who received their information 2nd, third or fourth hand or were basing it solely on statistics. Although stats have their place, I don't feel they give you as good an interpretation of the game as actually watching it.

When its 2nd, third or fourth hand you are getting other people's biases [just like you do with my posts], and if you rely on stats you are only getting raw data. You don't get the information that seeing the flow of the game gives you.

I hope my question didn't sound elitist, it was not intended to.

Inonehand
04-22-2008, 09:43 AM
Sorry, but those excuses do not hold water.

Excuses?

This isn't about Gail leaving. This is about McCallie being an inferior Xs and Os coach. She did less with more.

Certainly entitled to your opinion, however I believe your assessment of our talent level this year compared to our competition's is quite out of whack. Watch the draft from this year through 2010 and I think you'll see how that plays out.

UNC was in the same situation...losing an All-American post player and using a freshman point guard, plus losing a decorated post player. UNC did NOT have more individual talent, but the offense at UNC was designed to take advantage of the players' strengths. The offense at Duke was the only offense McCallie knows how to run.

UNC had more talent. Any basketball person could see that. I'm pretty much through with this non-argument. For Duke's sake I'll simply say I'm right and you're wrong.

Raleighfan
04-22-2008, 09:46 AM
the reason I brought it up was it was beginning to look like some of the arguments against Coach P were coming from people who received their information 2nd, third or fourth hand or were basing it solely on statistics. Although stats have their place, I don't feel they give you as good an interpretation of the game as actually watching it.

When its 2nd, third or fourth hand you are getting other people's biases [just like you do with my posts], and if you rely on stats you are only getting raw data. You don't get the information that seeing the flow of the game gives you.

I hope my question didn't sound elitist, it was not intended to.

I attended all the home games + the game in CH, do not have stats at my fingertips, but can state that my perception was that Duke was not a well-coached team and that players (except freshmen whom I hadn't seen play before) had taken a step backward as far as skill development. I wasn't very impressed with the "flow", if you could call it that, of the games. I went to every game hoping for improvement and plan to go to the games next year.

Inonehand
04-22-2008, 10:03 AM
UNC had more talent. Any basketball person could see that. I'm pretty much through with this non-argument. For Duke's sake I'll simply say I'm right and you're wrong.

...I hope I'm right and you're wrong.

CamrnCrz1974
04-22-2008, 10:16 AM
UNC had more talent. Any basketball person could see that. I'm pretty much through with this non-argument. For Duke's sake I'll simply say I'm right and you're wrong.

You are done with the argument because it doesn't hold water. Your decree that UNC has more talent isn't supported by anything other than you repeating your own conclusory assertion.

Bluedawg
04-22-2008, 11:40 AM
I attended all the home games + the game in CH, do not have stats at my fingertips, but can state that my perception was that Duke was not a well-coached team and that players (except freshmen whom I hadn't seen play before) had taken a step backward as far as skill development. I wasn't very impressed with the "flow", if you could call it that, of the games. I went to every game hoping for improvement and plan to go to the games next year.

I agree that the team did seem somewhat disjointed at times but you would expect that with the drastic changes made in the style of play.

I don't agree that "players had taken a step backward as far as skill development." I can offer Chante Black's year alone. Although Abby's shooting was down the other parts of her game really developed making her more of a major threat next year when Shelby comes in, who is a true point guard. Everyone raved over the development of Keturah Jackson and, although Coach G seemed to ignore her, she really blossomed with Coach

Inonehand
04-22-2008, 12:07 PM
You are done with the argument because it doesn't hold water. Your decree that UNC has more talent isn't supported by anything other than you repeating your own conclusory assertion.

Simply ask Sylvia, Geno, Brenda, Pat, etc. if they'd trade lineups. Like you, I don't know the answer for sure, but I'm relatively positive the answer is no.

MHTorringjan
04-22-2008, 01:11 PM
I agree that the team did seem somewhat disjointed at times but you would expect that with the drastic changes made in the style of play.

I don't agree that "players had taken a step backward as far as skill development." I can offer Chante Black's year alone. Although Abby's shooting was down the other parts of her game really developed making her more of a major threat next year when Shelby comes in, who is a true point guard. Everyone raved over the development of Keturah Jackson and, although Coach G seemed to ignore her, she really blossomed with Coach

And can I add Joy onto that list? She really worked on her game, and is trying to get her toughness and shooting all into one package. I was particularly impressed with her all through the season.

M.H.

Raleighfan
04-22-2008, 01:12 PM
OK....I should have excepted Keturah from my statement to the effect that it looked like the veterans had taken a step backward this year. Since we hardly saw KJ play during G's last year, we really didn't know much about her. So....yes, I'd say that this year was an improvement for her.

Bluedawg
04-22-2008, 01:43 PM
And can I add Joy onto that list? She really worked on her game, and is trying to get her toughness and shooting all into one package. I was particularly impressed with her all through the season.

M.H.

Absoultely. I did not mean to leave Joy off...thanks for pointing that out. I saw a lot of growth in her game.

CamrnCrz1974
04-22-2008, 03:48 PM
OK....I should have excepted Keturah from my statement to the effect that it looked like the veterans had taken a step backward this year. Since we hardly saw KJ play during G's last year, we really didn't know much about her. So....yes, I'd say that this year was an improvement for her.

Keturah had more minutes this year (16 per game). But she shot 42 percent from the floor, 50 percent from the free throw line, and couldn't hit a jumper. She had double the amount of turnovers as compared to assists and averaged 4 points and 3 rebounds per game. She was a good defender, but she still had trouble with the better players in the ACC.

Last year, Keturah played 8 minutes per game, shot 41 percent from the floor and 61 percent from the line. She averaged 2 points and 1.8 rebounds per game. Basically, her minutes just doubled.

The only main difference (other doubling her numbers because she got more minutes) were big increases in steals and turnovers.

CamrnCrz1974
04-22-2008, 03:50 PM
I don't agree that "players had taken a step backward as far as skill development." I can offer Chante Black's year alone. Although Abby's shooting was down the other parts of her game really developed making her more of a major threat next year when Shelby comes in, who is a true point guard. Everyone raved over the development of Keturah Jackson and, although Coach G seemed to ignore her, she really blossomed with Coach

See my comments re Keturah...that isn't improvement. That is an increase in minutes for which the numbers doubled. She only had significantly more steals...and offset them with significantly more turnovers.

Chante's improvement came last year, when she sat out. All she did was work on her shooting with the staff.

fadero
04-22-2008, 07:15 PM
Kj was the beneficiary of more playing time....enough said. Chante did not play the year before so of course she looked better. She still can't finish against elite teams, has questionable hands, waits too long to make a move, and has no signature move to the basket but yet is our featured offensive threat. Every good team could read our offense and defend accordingly.

Our movement on offense was non existant. Al Brown was supposed to be a big persons coach extraordinare but I can't see it. The lack of screens is in direct proportion to Abby's shooting woes. Our offense only works against teams that are inferior. When we struggled on offense there was no plan b.

coach p let officials initimidate her. She let bad call after bad call just roll by. The momentum we lost comming into the start of the second half in several games was uncalled for. This team was never really inspired to play for her. This team actually gave up several times this year in a couple of games when it was out of hand.

This coach does not like to recruit and openly admits it. This should have been an easy transition...she had alot to work with.

MHTorringjan
04-23-2008, 09:40 AM
Keturah had more minutes this year (16 per game). But she shot 42 percent from the floor, 50 percent from the free throw line, and couldn't hit a jumper. She had double the amount of turnovers as compared to assists and averaged 4 points and 3 rebounds per game. She was a good defender, but she still had trouble with the better players in the ACC.


Well, one thing that I agree with here is the free-throw shooting. That's definitely the big thing that they need to work on as a team for next year, as it was always an adventure watching them go to the line. As for the PT argument, I'll agree that she got more playing time, and that the raw numbers don't necessarily show improvement, but (a) doesn't the fact that she got more playing time mean that she showed improvement in practice, (b) the players all voted her the most improved player at the beginning of the season, and (c) I think she had more heady play, and many of the better players that she had trouble defending, pretty much anyone whose name wasn't Lindsey Harding would have had trouble defending. I'm sticking with KJ as greatly improved.

M.H.

MHTorringjan
04-23-2008, 09:55 AM
Kj was the beneficiary of more playing time....enough said. Chante did not play the year before so of course she looked better. She still can't finish against elite teams, has questionable hands, waits too long to make a move, and has no signature move to the basket but yet is our featured offensive threat. Every good team could read our offense and defend accordingly.

Our movement on offense was non existant. Al Brown was supposed to be a big persons coach extraordinare but I can't see it. The lack of screens is in direct proportion to Abby's shooting woes. Our offense only works against teams that are inferior. When we struggled on offense there was no plan b.

coach p let officials initimidate her. She let bad call after bad call just roll by. The momentum we lost comming into the start of the second half in several games was uncalled for. This team was never really inspired to play for her. This team actually gave up several times this year in a couple of games when it was out of hand.

This coach does not like to recruit and openly admits it. This should have been an easy transition...she had alot to work with.

I'm really not sure what to say to you besides, wow, that's a bunch of negative comments there. :-\

I disagree with your statement about Chante not being able to finish against elite teams (which, I'm not sure if she played a team by herself). She scored in double digits in the majority of our games against top-five ranked teams (although admittedly, she did have trouble rebounding in many of those games), and led the team in scoring in at least a few of those games. Now, again, this may be because of the "Get the ball to Chante" offense, but I think it shows that she can produce against good post players. Now, when she's double- or triple-teamed, she had problems, but really, who wouldn't? It's kind of the point.

We've addressed the offense issue. Hopefully, she'll diversify a bit, and I did notice the lack of movement in a lot of games. Not sure what that was about, but I'm certain that they're working on it.

As for the intimidation by the refs, you sound like a State fan criticizing Herb Sendek for not being more fiery. She questioned calls that she disagreed with, and I remember seeing her talking to the refs many times about calls that they missed or that she thought should have gone the other way. And while it's not necessarily a good indicator of my point, I'd like to point out that she also did not hurt us by arguing herself into a technical.

We've addressed the recruiting issue, and we all hope that's changed.

Anyway, try looking at the positives for a bit. Lighten up and enjoy the game.

M.H.

MHTorringjan
04-23-2008, 10:03 AM
You know, one thing that I was kind of disappointed with that I don't think has been addressed yet in the thread is the attendance issue. While we had I think three announced sell-outs this season and season ticket sales were supposedly up on the year, I was disappointed specifically with student attendance at the games. While, the attendance at non-conference games was low, as expected and as usual, we weren't even able to fill up the bleachers for the Carolina game fer chrissake! Could somebody maybe go out to K-ville and tell them that this is still your school and still your team playing against still your rival? (Sure, the argument wouldn't work as well for the UMD game, since they're still not our rivals, but I digress)

The fact that Tenn-clad grad students (and Tenn alum children) were able to get front row on the student section for the Tennessee game was disturbing, IMO, and I near about bet if Candace Parker had heard a louder cadence screaming at her, she might have had a harder time shooting that 9-12 from the line.

M.H.

Bluedawg
04-23-2008, 10:08 AM
This coach does not like to recruit and openly admits it. This should have been an easy transition...she had alot to work with.

It will be nice if we can get beyond this 3-4 year old quote that was taken out of context.

Besides, Mike Corey responded to this in his post in another thread http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=137858&postcount=17

I won't try to repeat or repost it, but reading it should put this comment to rest.

MHTorringjan
04-23-2008, 10:11 AM
It will be nice if we can get beyond this 3-4 year old quote that was taken out of context.

Besides, Mike Corey responded to this in his post in another thread http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=137858&postcount=17

I won't try to repeat or repost it, but reading it should put this comment to rest.

Thanks, Bluedawg, I hadn't read that one. It's good to see something like that to put my mind at ease. :-)

M.H.

Inonehand
04-23-2008, 11:42 AM
I agree with the poster above with disappointment in attendance this year. Some of it may have to do with the lack of star-power in the team. Some because of early-season losses. But I believe a lot of the student attendance issue has to do with the changing demographics of the student body. Honestly, it takes a large percentage of students to fill the student sections and it has simply gotten harder and harder for that to happen. Many of the men's games are less than full downstairs. In fact, most of them.

Bluedawg
04-23-2008, 12:23 PM
I agree with the poster above with disappointment in attendance this year. Some of it may have to do with the lack of star-power in the team. Some because of early-season losses. But I believe a lot of the student attendance issue has to do with the changing demographics of the student body. Honestly, it takes a large percentage of students to fill the student sections and it has simply gotten harder and harder for that to happen. Many of the men's games are less than full downstairs. In fact, most of them.

K-ville looked smaller this year than I recall from years past.

duke74
04-23-2008, 12:27 PM
I agree with the poster above with disappointment in attendance this year. Some of it may have to do with the lack of star-power in the team. Some because of early-season losses. But I believe a lot of the student attendance issue has to do with the changing demographics of the student body. Honestly, it takes a large percentage of students to fill the student sections and it has simply gotten harder and harder for that to happen. Many of the men's games are less than full downstairs. In fact, most of them.

What changing demographics do you mean? Foreign students, etc? Not disagreeing - just trying to understand the hypothesis.

CamrnCrz1974
04-23-2008, 12:57 PM
It will be nice if we can get beyond this 3-4 year old quote that was taken out of context.

Besides, Mike Corey responded to this in his post in another thread http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=137858&postcount=17

I won't try to repeat or repost it, but reading it should put this comment to rest.

Out of context? Let us see...

"We do nationally recruit, but if we can go 30 miles, that's how far we're going to go because I can't stand recruiting," McCallie says. "I will take the shortest distance to a recruit. I think if you can get great talent in the Midwest, why would you go somewhere else?"

Now, take her comment about assistants doing recruiting and consider this. AAU and high school coaches in the MD/VA/DC region (one of Duke's strongest recruiting areas) have NO CLUE who McCallie is. SHE needs to be the face of recruiting. Only after years of building relationships could Gail Goestenkors send Gale Valley and not go to everything herself. McCallie comes in and assumes everyone knows about her and thinks the world of her, such that her assistants can do the recruiting.

It is very telling that Nneka Ogwumike, who won several POY awards, was a Duke lean before McCallie arrived. McCallie arrives, and Duke couldn't even get Nneka to visit (she had been to Duke previously with Gail). McCallie has to be the face of recruiting until she establishes a proven track record.

Plus, relying on her assistants isn't great, when you consider Samantha Williams has had five jobs in seven years.

jtelander
04-23-2008, 08:05 PM
On a related note, I thought this was an interesting article on the team's season.

http://media.www.dukechronicle...e-3343683.shtml

GrayHare
04-24-2008, 08:42 AM
On a related note, I thought this was an interesting article on the team's season.

http://media.www.dukechronicle...e-3343683.shtml

Thanks. It's a very interesting article, but I had trouble with the link. If anyone else does, try this one:

A Season Of Change (http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/04/23/Features/A.Season.Of.Change-3343683.shtml)

MHTorringjan
04-24-2008, 09:24 AM
Now, take her comment about assistants doing recruiting and consider this. AAU and high school coaches in the MD/VA/DC region (one of Duke's strongest recruiting areas) have NO CLUE who McCallie is. SHE needs to be the face of recruiting. Only after years of building relationships could Gail Goestenkors send Gale Valley and not go to everything herself. McCallie comes in and assumes everyone knows about her and thinks the world of her, such that her assistants can do the recruiting.

I actually agree with this for a number of reasons. For one thing, I agree with the statement that a lot of HS coaches don't know who she is, and they'll play at least some part in the decision making of many recruits. If she was able to endear herself to the HS coaches of the recruits she wants, that would influence the recruits in a positive manner. Also, it says a lot to the recruits that the head coach herself would come to see them, telling them that they're important to the program.

It also seems that she's relying heavily on the appeal of Duke as an institution, which can be risky when we're up against other prestigious academic institutions, like Stanford and UNC, which also have national recognition as prestigious academic institutions with excellent women's basketball programs. Not to say we're not as good as if not better than them in that respect, but it may not be as clear to many recruits in other parts of the country.

M.H.

bludev03
04-24-2008, 01:28 PM
It also seems that she's relying heavily on the appeal of Duke as an institution, which can be risky when we're up against other prestigious academic institutions, like Stanford and UNC, which also have national recognition as prestigious academic institutions with excellent women's basketball programs.

M.H.

UNC, a school that accepts community college classes, a "prestigious academic institution" ?! ROFLMAO

MHTorringjan
04-24-2008, 08:52 PM
UNC, a school that accepts community college classes, a "prestigious academic institution" ?! ROFLMAO

Oh, come on, like all public schools, their students run the gamut. I mean, I've known some rock-stupid people who went there, but I've also known some incredibly intelligent people who went there for their education and came out the better for it. However, you have to admit that they're a nationally recognized program with high quality professors who know their subject. Now, the quality of the teaching versus the quality of research, which is sometimes an issue at larger institutions, that may be a different story. The point is, the perception is there.

And anyway, that's a different thread and likely a different forum, so try to keep the topic to women's basketball, please, and how we're going to kick the bejesus out of Carolina next year (ideally).

M.H.

Bluedawg
04-25-2008, 01:11 PM
Incoming Freshmen


Guard Chelsea Hopkins (5-8) of Las Vegas, guard Shay Selby (5-9) of Cleveland, Ohio, and forward Kathleen Scheer (6-2) of New Haven, Mo., make up a class that is ranked fifth best in the county by two recruiting services and seventh by another. It’s the ninth straight year that Duke has brought in a top 10 class. Selby is considered to be the nation’s top point guard by one service.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22760&SPID=1846&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1445813

http://www.hoopgurlz.com/files/players/405000_8.jpg
Shay Selby (http://www.hoopgurlz.com/player/shay-selby)

Gatorade State Player of the Year (Ohio), 2008. ... WBCA All-American, 2008. ...Adidas Top Ten Camp All Star, 2005. ... Second Team All State (Division III), 2005. ... State All Tournament Team, 2005. ... First Team All District, 2005. ... First Team All County, 2005.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/36/361602m.jpg
Kathleen Scheer (http://www.hoopgurlz.com/player/kathleen-scheer)

Player of the Year, Four Rivers Conference, 2007 First Team, All-Conference, Four Rivers, 2007 All-Tournament, River City Class, 2006 Player of the Year, Four Rivers Conference, 2006 All-State, Missouri Basketball Coach's Association, 2006 Second Team All-State, Missouri Writers, 2006 First Team, All-District, 2006 First Team, All-Conference, 2006 Scored 1,000 points, sophomore year, 2005-06 Player of the Year, Four Rivers Conference, 2005 2006 Club Team: Missouri Rockets



http://www.hoopgurlz.com/files/players/Chelsea%20Hopkins.JPG
Chelsea Hopkins (http://www.hoopgurlz.com/player/chelsea-hopkins)

Club Team: West Coast Elite

Grass Roots Sports Fall Showcase All-Star, 2006.
Led the State of Nevada in scoring, 06-07.