NBA "Book Club"

[Jumbo]

Sorry it took me so long to get around to this. But, as we discussed in another thread, I'm going to start a "recommended viewing" guide during the playoffs. I hope NBA fans and NBA haters alike will tune in and give this a chance.

If I had time today, I'd watch all four games. I don't have time, though. In fact, I just hope I'll be able to see half of the two games I'm going to recommend. Still, I hope you guys will watch and discuss. So, here we go with today's games:

Game 1, Suns at Spurs (3 PM, ABC)
What to look for:
-Watch San Antonio's help defense and their rotations. Compare it to what you're used to watching in the college game.
-Grant Hill, baby!
-Pay attention to a) how often Phoenix is actually able to get out on the break off a rebound or turnover with numbers and b) when Phoenix doesn't have numbers, if they're still able to get off a quick shot. And, if they do get off a quick shot, is it a good look? Mike D'Antoni's philosophy is that you get your best looks in the first seven seconds of the shot clock. Watch that, watch what San Antonio does to prevent that and discuss.
-When the Spurs have the ball, check out whether they go to a lot of pick and rolls, particularly with whomever Shaq is guarding (likely Duncan). See how effective they are in exposing Shaq's lack of mobility and what the Suns do to counter.
-Since Duke supposedly runs the Phoenix offense, look for what principles are the same, and what's different.

Game 1, Jazz at Rockets (9:30 PM, ESPN)
What to look for:
-Carlos and Shane! Just check 'em out and see what you think!
-Check out the precision of Utah's offense. And think about how if you had a combo like Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer, how you would deploy them.
-Check out Houston going small, and how they spread the floor.
-Pay attention to how Utah elects to defend Tracy McGrady. Will they double him? If so, when and where?

Those are a few good starting points. Mostly, just sit back and enjoy the games, and let's see what everyone thinks tomorrow!

-Oprah

[jipops]

I have zero time as well, except for maybe the Jazz-Rockets game. The DVR is set for the Suns game. I may be up a little late watching that one.

Suns-Spurs in the 1st round. I mean are you kidding me?!!?? This is practically the equivalent to a Western conference final.

[Karl Beem]

The Wizards uniforms! (ESPN)

[JBDuke]

The Wizards uniforms! (ESPN)

Yeah, but how about that 35-footer from Agent Zero? That was a heck of a long shot. It reminded me of JJ - how sometimes he'd go up so far from the basket, it was kind of hard to believe he could take that shot, only he'd bury it, and it would get everybody all fired up.

[Cameron]

Those two games will be hard pressed to top the Jay-Z/Souljia Boy battle we have going on right now on ESPN. Bringing back the days of Heat-Knicks. I love it.

[SilkyJ]

Something I always like to look for in the playoffs is Defense (and as dukies that's something we can all appreciate). The teams really turn it up a notch on D in the playoffs. So that being said, I'm especially excited to see Houston's D in the playoffs b/c they've been such a good defense team during the regular season. I know Shane brings it 100% every night, but hopefully he's got that extra gear and can really turn it up.

Go Suns! Go Rockets! Go Jazz!

(too bad booz and shane have to play each other 1st round)

[JBDuke]

Here's one of the things I hate about the NBA - superstar treatment. Lebron James gets away with walking on many of his drives to the basket. In the game today, I saw him walk on a drive at one end, and then Caron Butler, an All-Star, but not a superstar, does almost a carbon-copy of Lebron's drive on the other end, but he gets called for travelling.

Ugh.

[Cameron]

^^I agree with that. The NBA certainly has its own set of rules, which is sad. It's been that way for a long time now, though, and likely isn't going to change. That's why I only watch the playoffs anymore. The regular season in the NBA has become a complete joke. Out of all the major pro sports, the regular season NBA is by far the most "plastic." In other words, the intensity and game play in the regular season is just whack.

I want the 1990s NBA back. The '80s would be ideal, but the '90s were just as entertaining and amazing, IMO. What I wouldn't do to live those memories over again.

[BlueintheFace]

Here's one of the things I hate about the NBA - superstar treatment. Lebron James gets away with walking on many of his drives to the basket. In the game today, I saw him walk on a drive at one end, and then Caron Butler, an All-Star, but not a superstar, does almost a carbon-copy of Lebron's drive on the other end, but he gets called for travelling.

Ugh.

Hate to say it, but that superstar treatment happens in the NCAA too, it's just not as visible (see- Tyler Hansbrough)

[phaedrus]

^^I agree with that. The NBA certainly has its own set of rules, which is sad. It's been that way for a long time now, though, and likely isn't going to change. That's why I only watch the playoffs anymore. The regular season in the NBA has become a complete joke. Out of all the major pro sports, the regular season NBA is by far the most "plastic." In other words, the intensity and game play in the regular season is just whack.

I want the 1990s NBA back. The '80s would be ideal, but the '90s were just as entertaining and amazing, IMO. What I wouldn't do to live those memories over again.

You don't like the superstar treatment that Lebron gets today, so you want to go back to watching Michael Jordan? I'm confused.

[SilkyJ]

I want the 1990s NBA back.

The only thing I would add is "early" 90s. I have not done any research to support this, but there seem to have been of "top 50-100 players of all time" in the league during the early 90s (80s too, as you mention...)

[SilkyJ]

^meant to say "...have been A LOT of top 50-100 players..."

can't edit for some reason...

[SilkyJ]

the suns got shaq for one reason: to stop a big man, mainly tim duncan, who had knocked them out a least once before, especially in late game situations. so why the heck does d'antoni leave him on the bench as the spurs mount a comeback with timmy leading the way both by scoring and multiple times passing out of double teams for layups. if shaq was guarding him, u dont have to double every time, if at all...

also, grant looks to be hurting. I saw him on play about 2-3 mins ago where he grimaced just walking up the court. could be that groin. that's something that can be easily aggravated...

[Troublemaker]

the suns got shaq for one reason: to stop a big man, mainly tim duncan, who had knocked them out a least once before, especially in late game situations. so why the heck does d'antoni leave him on the bench as the spurs mount a comeback with timmy leading the way both by scoring and multiple times passing out of double teams for layups. if shaq was guarding him, u dont have to double every time, if at all...

also, grant looks to be hurting. I saw him on play about 2-3 mins ago where he grimaced just walking up the court. could be that groin. that's something that can be easily aggravated...

D'antoni brought Shaq back with 2 minutes left. In the NBA, if your team gets fouled off-the-ball with under 2 minutes left, you shoot free throws and retain possession. That eliminates Hack-a-Shaq with under 2 minutes left.

[Troublemaker]

That was such a terrible charge by Amare. Take the wide-open FT line jumper which you've been canning all season or wait for the defender to close on you and lob it for Shaq to dunk. The only thing you don't do is dribble in closer and lean forward for an off-balance shot which results in a charge.

[SilkyJ]

D'antoni brought Shaq back with 2 minutes left. In the NBA, if your team gets fouled off-the-ball with under 2 minutes left, you shoot free throws and retain possession. That eliminates Hack-a-Shaq with under 2 minutes left.

I guess...its certainly the only thing that would make sense.

I just disagree with the decision...


That was such a terrible charge by Amare. Take the wide-open FT line jumper which you've been canning all season or wait for the defender to close on you and lob it for Shaq to dunk. The only thing you don't do is dribble in closer and lean forward for an off-balance shot which results in a charge.

I thought the same thing. Take the jumper. He's a good shooter from there...

[Troublemaker]

I guess...its certainly the only thing that would make sense.

I just disagree with the decision...

Well, I'm sure if D'antoni could go back in time and do it all over again, he'd leave Shaq in. The Suns just couldn't hold the fort on Duncan while Shaq was out. But we have the benefit of hindsight. At the time, Shaq had just bricked 3 FTs on one possession, and I could see the logic.

[SilkyJ]

wow. double OT. one of the better playoff games I've seen, definitely one of the best opening 1st round games ever. That was duncan's 1st 3 all season i think! how is this is a 1st round series...

how the suns respond in game 2 will be telling to me of whether they are ready to be a championship team. clearly they are at that level talent wise, but mentally can they keep it together after coming so close (and they were winning most of the game too)

[Spret42]

Watching this Suns/Spurs game reminded me of just how "professional" NBA basketball can be when good smart disciplined players are involved. Everyone on the floor knew assignments and played their roles.

It just ended and I just love the fact that they are going to do this at least three more times. It really was "professional" in a lot of ways.

[shadowfax336]

I started watching with 4 minutes to go in regulation, and that was one of the best NBA games I've seen in a looong time.

[prefan21]

What a game! How can anyone dislike Tim Duncan?

I'm not even a Spurs fan.

[BobbyFan]

Wow! Spectacular game. While some may wish Suns-Spurs was the Conference Finals match-up, at least this series is happening.

Amare was outstanding offensively, but he made a critical mistake by not helping on Finley when it was apparent that Barbosa was beat on the screen.

Grant played pretty well defensively, but in some ways held his team back on offense. I think it's fairly obvious that he isn't 100%.

And Duncan showed why he is still the game's best player.

[Troublemaker]

how the suns respond in game 2 will be telling to me of whether they are ready to be a championship team. clearly they are at that level talent wise, but mentally can they keep it together after coming so close (and they were winning most of the game too)

Don't be surprised if the Spurs win Game 2 easily. Losers of heart-breaking games typically have a tough time recovering when the next game is on the opponent's homecourt. The Suns will probably lack energy in Game 2 and still be thinking about how they had two chances up 3 to win Game 1, but both Finley and Duncan hit clutch threes to tie it in regulation and overtime, respectively. Phoenix will probably need to return home before they get re-energized for the series.

[BobbyFan]

I forgot to mention, a few other major defensive errors by the Suns:

1. Nash leaving Duncan alone for the 3 with 5 seconds left in the 1st OT.
2. Bell allowing Ginobili to go left for a relatively easy, classic Manu drive, to win the game.

[Cameron]

definitely one of the best opening 1st round games ever

I agree, today's game in San Antonio was pretty good. But, the best first round game I have ever witnessed was Game 5 between the Pacers and the Nets in 2002, a double OT thriller in Jersey. Reggie Miller sent the game into the first overtime with a 40 foot bank shot at the buzzer, solidifying his legend as one of the greatest clutch performers in the history of the sport, at any level. Uncle Reggie sent the contest into a second extra period with his unbelievable hammer dunk over Kenyon Martin with under a second left on the clock and the Pacers down two, a mythic slam by the near 40 year old that came out of NOWHERE. In fact, I should have added that to the "Greatest Dunks" thread. It was sick, and those here who saw it can back me up on that.

I miss Miller Time:(


You don't like the superstar treatment that Lebron gets today, so you want to go back to watching Michael Jordan? I'm confused.


I guess I should have been more specific with what I agreed with JB about. Actually, I was more or less agreeing with his pointing out of the poor officiating as a whole (i.e. the NBA stripes ignoring walks, carrying, allowing three-point plays with shots that come 7 seconds later, etc.). The officiating is just terrible, IMO.

Also, I said I would like to go back to the '90s and '80s NBA mostly because I think the competition was much better back then, especially in the regular season. I just don't think the intensity, level of defense, and overall passion of really wanting the prize, almost to the point of death being the only alternative of not winning, is there anymore. Which, IMO, is how I would characterize the '80s and '90s. Go back and look at teams like Detroit, Boston, and those early Chicago teams. They killed guys to get to that gold trophy. It was special.

Also, NBA on ESPN? Not buying it. It all looks fake. NBC and Bob Costas is where it's at. The NBA is not the NBA without its TRUE theme music. Not "We Got Hoops" or whatever the awful ABC crap is (and especially not how ABC now uses hit pop songs from time to time to entrance games. AWFUL!).

Ugh is right.

[jma4life]

Cameron, I agree that for much of this decade, intensity in the regular season has been sub par. But the last two seasons and this season in particular (especially out west) the competition and intensity has been fantastic. It had to be given how competitive the west was and thus how important each game was in terms of seeding and even making the playoffs.

[BobbyFan]

Also, I said I would like to go back to the '90s and '80s NBA mostly because I think the competition was much better back then, especially in the regular season. I just don't think the intensity, level of defense, and overall passion of really wanting the prize, almost to a point of death being the only alternative of not winning. Which, IMO, is how I would characterize the '80s and '90s. Go back and look at teams like Detroit, Boston, and those early Chicago teams. They killed guys to get to that gold trophy. It was special.

The game is called differently today. You can't fault the players for that. You think Tim Duncan doesn't want it as badly? Kobe? Nash? Garnett? These guys want it just as much as any generation's players.


Also, NBA on ESPN? Not buying it. It all looks fake. NBC and Bob Costas is where it's at. The NBA is not the NBA without its TRUE theme music. Not "We Got Hoops" or whatever the awful ABC crap is (and especially not how ABC now uses hit pop songs from time to time to entrance games. AWFUL!).

I agree. ABC's production has been terrible, although I do like, however, the refreshing Breen/Jackson/Van Gundy trio.

A Bob Costas intro, a catchy theme, and Marv Albert were quite the combination: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_-L-jilyFU

[darthur]

The game is called differently today. You can't fault the players for that. You think Tim Duncan doesn't want it as badly? Kobe? Nash? Garnett? These guys want it just as much as any generation's players.

I agree. Anyone who thinks that NBA players don't want it needs to tune into any of the Western conference playoffs series this year. NBA players aren't as demonstrative emotionally as college players are, but I challenge people here to find anyone anywhere who brings all he has every game more than, say, Nash does.

Also, I far prefer NBA officiating over college officiating for what it's worth. I could take it or leave it on the rules differences (yes continuation is a little stretched), but the officiating itself is far more consistent IMO and there are fewer flat-out bad calls than you'll see in college.

[BlueintheFace]

What a game! How can anyone dislike Tim Duncan?

I'm not even a Spurs fan.

I don't really dislike him, but I think he genuinely believes that every foul called on him is wrong. A lot of guys in the league make a bigger fuss over crucial calls, but nobody is a more consistent complainer day in and day out than Tim Duncan. That being said, he is so under-rated every year until the playoffs. It never ceases to amaze me.

[Cameron]

The game is called differently today. You can't fault the players for that. You think Tim Duncan doesn't want it as badly? Kobe? Nash? Garnett? These guys want it just as much as any generation's players.

I will concede to that. I probably didn't relay my feelings as well as I wish I would have. I don't know, the game just doesn't have that college feel like it used to. If that makes any sense at all. I will admit that last year's Golden State series in Oakland was pretty damn intense, and amazing.

Maybe I'm just living in a dream world, hoping that Costas and Jordan, Miller Time, NBA on NBC, Sunday games at the Boston Garden, Reggie in MSG, Malone to Stockton, Magic and Penny in Orlando, Willow Bay and the real and original NBA Inside Stuff (Moooonnnddaayyyyy!), and Heat-Knicks is going to return. But, boy do I wish it would.

The NBA just isn't what it used to be, IMO. But the playoffs, as I said, are still fun to watch. For NBA fans out there, sorry for being so definitive in my comments. That wasn't right of me.

[jipops]

I've mostly just seen up to mid-way through the 3rd quarter of the Suns-Spurs game so I can't say I'm commenting on a full body of work. I need to get back to watching the Jazz game too.

The Suns were on the verge of seizing control of this game in the 2nd quarter and then seemed to zone out. The writing was on the wall at the end of the half.

Phoenix's defense was actually quite good until San Antonio started to draw the double team away from Duncan. D'Antoni put Grant on either Parker or Ginobli which drew him away as the 2nd defender to help out on Duncan. The Sun's didn't really do a great job of denying the ball from Duncan either or even push him off the block, though early foul trouble hurt this as well. I still think the Suns are the better team, the Spurs just do such a great job adjusting.

random thoughts:
I really liked the zone D Pheonix played early on in the 1st. Also seemed to do an excellent job in containing Parker and Ginobli who at one point I believe was only something like 1-7. Obviously they're going to need to get more minutes out of Shaq in this series. How about the Duke-like lineup at the end of the 2nd quarter with Grant Hill at power forward and Diaw at center?

[jipops]

I will concede to that. I probably didn't relay my feelings as well as I wish I would have. I don't know, the game just doesn't have that college feel like it used to. If that makes any sense at all. I will admit that last year's Golden State series in Oakland was pretty damn intense, and amazing.

Maybe I'm just living in a dream world, hoping that Costas and Jordan, Miller Time, NBA on NBC, Sunday games at the Boston Garden, Reggie in MSG, Malone to Stockton, Magic and Penny in Orlando, Willow Bay and the real and original NBA Inside Stuff (Moooonnnddaayyyyy!), and Heat-Knicks is going to return. But, boy do I wish it would.

The NBA just isn't what it used to be, IMO. But the playoffs, as I said, are still fun to watch. For NBA fans out there, sorry for being so definitive in my comments. That wasn't right of me.

Why would you want a Heat-Knicks type series to return? The emotional drama was certainly entertaining but the quality of basketball played in that series was often ugly. Those games were all about position defense and neither team had a reliable outside shooter.

I do understand your nostalgia. Reggie in MSG was something you absolutely had to watch. But times change. Now we have LeBron taking teams apart by himself which is actually quite awesome, especially when it's against a team that calls him out before hand (pretty stupid Wiz).

[Cameron]

emotional drama

You said it exactly. The theatre, the intensity, the drama. Heat-Knicks was real life mortal kombat. Riley vs. New York. LJ vs. Alonzo. Charlie Ward vs. PJ Brown. Heat vs. Knicks. Four straight spring playoff wars. It might not have been basketball at its most finesse, but it was hard fought and dramatic as hell. I could really identify with it because of my hate for North Carolina. It had that classic rivalry feel, like the Pistons and Bulls used to have or the Celtics and Pistons. (Pacers-Knicks was great, too.)

You've gotta be kidding me, you didn't love Heat-Knicks? Heat-Knicks was a staple. Heat Knicks was Heat-Knicks. Okay, perhaps I have a bit of an odd fascination with Heat-Knicks:)

[SilkyJ]

Don't be surprised if the Spurs win Game 2 easily. Losers of heart-breaking games typically have a tough time recovering when the next game is on the opponent's homecourt.

I know, that's my point exactly. its typical, as you say, for teams to come in and get blown out after a heart breaker, so are the suns a typical playoff team or a championship one. That's why I think it would be telling if they came out and made it as close as this one...

[jma4life]

Well I think Cameron is referring strictly to intensity of play in the Miami-Knicks series. During the playoffs, that series had UNC-Duke type emotions (or as close as the NBA can get to that level ) going. Then again, there are some intense series now as well so I don't know how valid that point is.

I mean no disrespect Cameron and I understand your point, but I agree with your suspicion that you are simply suffering from missing the good old days of Reggie and a great Pacers team. And I say that because I'd probably feel the same way if in your position.


(I guess Cameron posted inbetween my opening of this thread and getting back to posting so yea, I agree with what he said regarding Heat-Knicks. And it's not just you, those series were appreciated by me as well)

[Troublemaker]

I know, that's my point exactly. its typical, as you say, for teams to come in and get blown out after a heart breaker, so are the suns a typical playoff team or a championship one. That's why I think it would be telling if they came out and made it as close as this one...

Perhaps. But I think Phoenix has been a strong championship contender for a few years now; they just haven't been the very best team in any single year, and I think the same concept applies this season since Boston looks like the top dog around. (The Suns have also had some bad luck over the years, with the suspensions last season, Amare's injury two seasons ago, and Joe Johnson's injury three seasons ago).

I agree with jipops above that Phoenix appears to be better than San Antonio, at least head-to-head now that Shaq allows them to matchup much better with the Spurs. Hopefully the Suns don't allow Game 1 to get into their heads. Game 2 apparently isn't until Tuesday, so hopefully it'll be out of their system by then?

[Troublemaker]

You said it exactly. The theatre, the intensity, the drama. Heat-Knicks was real life mortal kombat. Riley vs. New York. LJ vs. Alonzo. Charlie Ward vs. PJ Brown. Heat vs. Knicks. Four straight spring playoff wars. It might not have been basketball at its most finesse, but it was hard fought and dramatic as hell. I could really identify with it because of my hate for North Carolina. It had that classic rivalry feel, like the Pistons and Bulls used to have or the Celtics and Pistons. (Pacers-Knicks was great, too.)

You've gotta be kidding me, you didn't love Heat-Knicks? Heat-Knicks was a staple. Heat Knicks was Heat-Knicks. Okay, perhaps I have a bit of an odd fascination with Heat-Knicks:)

Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of those Knicks-Heat series, either. Sorry, Cameron. For me, the emotions of those games couldn't make up for the grind-it-out ugliness. The good news is the NBA has more finesse these days, so we can get games like the Spurs-Suns one we witnessed today.

[calltheobvious]

Man, I was such a good husband yesterday. Set my DVR in the morning before going out with my wife for the day to a carnival and later B&N and Marble Slab. Then we get home, I surf while she watches a movie, then she goes to bed, and now it's time for the Playoffs!

The 2.5 hours alotted on the DVR for the Suns-Spurs game took me to six minutes left in regulation. Grrr.

[phaedrus]

The 2.5 hours alotted on the DVR for the Suns-Spurs game took me to six minutes left in regulation. Grrr.

Eh, nothing really happened after that anyway.

[Jumbo]

Good stuff yesterday. Did any non-NBA fans tune in? If so, what did you think?

I'm sure people have a lot of stuff going on today, so I'll just suggest one game -- Lakers vs. Nuggets at 3. Watch for the way the Lakers use Kobe's one-on-one skills within a team framework. Then watch the Nuggets and notice how they fail to do that with Melo and Iverson. Also, pay attention to the little things both teams do to try to dictate tempo.

[jipops]

You said it exactly. The theatre, the intensity, the drama. Heat-Knicks was real life mortal kombat. Riley vs. New York. LJ vs. Alonzo. Charlie Ward vs. PJ Brown. Heat vs. Knicks. Four straight spring playoff wars. It might not have been basketball at its most finesse, but it was hard fought and dramatic as hell. I could really identify with it because of my hate for North Carolina. It had that classic rivalry feel, like the Pistons and Bulls used to have or the Celtics and Pistons. (Pacers-Knicks was great, too.)

You've gotta be kidding me, you didn't love Heat-Knicks? Heat-Knicks was a staple. Heat Knicks was Heat-Knicks. Okay, perhaps I have a bit of an odd fascination with Heat-Knicks:)

That series was nothing compared to Knicks-Bulls, especially the series in '92 when the Knicks had the X-Man Xavier McDaniel. Remember X-Man and Jordan locking horns?

[jipops]

So no mention of the Jazz-Rockets game from yesterday and the fact that two Dukies were major-major players in that game. Maybe because everyone else has a life and went out on a Saturday night I guess.

Utah methodically controlled this game through patient offensive execution and, oh my, they played some solid D. It looked to me like the Jazz rotated heavily on McGrady forcing him to pull up and leaving Battier open to pour in his 22 (perfect from the field). Boozer really owned the boards during one crucial stretch in the 4th. With 16 boards I guess he pretty much owned them all night. I loved Harpring's play in this game - did a great job on McGrady. Anybody who knocks the NBA for being a league that lacks hustle has obviously never watched this guy. I also think he's a Jerry Sloan favorite. Kirilenko was murder cutting to the basket. I didn't think Deron played all that great until I looked at the boxscore - he still had 10 assists but I guess the 5 turnovers stuck out a bit. I think he's playing with a bit of an injury.


Lakers-Denver:
The best passing team in the NBA - there is no question the Lakers play some of the most beautiful basketball around these days. Looks even better vs a porous defense like Denver. Kobe amazingly had a terrible shooting game up to late in the 3rd but he initiated almost all the offense for LA. He never-ever gets out-worked on defense either - this is why he is the best player in the league and should win MVP. Gasol had a terrific game but he was setup so beautifully by the likes of Odom, Walton and Bryant. He returned the favor with 8 assists of his own. This team shares the ball so unbelievably well, a stark contrast to the typical George Karl coached team - a group with serious scorers and depth but very, very little chemistry. The ball pretty much stays on one side of the floor every time down. It's the brand of NBA ball the detractors love to point out even though this version does put up a lot of points.

Jumbo, you preview these "assigned viewings" extremely well. Are you working in a TNT studio or something? Can you please replace that know-nothing quack Stephen A Smith on espn?

[Spret42]

The Sixers win in Detroit was impressive. That team plays hard. They dig for everything.

The Lakers passing is almost unbelievable for any team at any level. Yes, Denver stands around like 5 guys in an adult book store on defense but a team still has to understand and be unselfish enough to exploit it, and the Lakers do and did.

This weekend was so much fun watching all the different good teams, all the great young players, and then there is KG in Boston. I swear at some point in these playoffs he is going to burst into flames.

[Turk]

Yes, Denver stands around like 5 guys in an adult book store on defense...



Yikes, what a great image... (I've never been in an adult bookstore, but I get the idea... ) :eek:

What other creative similies for bad defense can you come up with?

Standing around like....

...5 commuters waiting for an Amtrak train....
...5 statues waiting for a flock of pigeons...

nah, those don't work.... I give up.

[Troublemaker]

I think I've fallen in love with this Lakers team and I wish they didn't have to play Boozer next round so I could root for them. They just have so much basketball IQ and can move the ball around so well, I think they're easily the most aesthetically pleasing team to watch in basketball right now, college or pros. There are other good passing teams in the playoffs like the Suns and the Jazz, but what the Lakers are doing is just at another level of motion and poetry, imo. They're also very skilled and very long to compensate for only having "pretty good" athleticism (by NBA standards). I don't think they're the best team this year because they're young and their defense is shaky, but if they can keep this core together, they should win championships plural in the next 5 years.

[Cameron]

That series was nothing compared to Knicks-Bulls, especially the series in '92 when the Knicks had the X-Man Xavier McDaniel. Remember X-Man and Jordan locking horns?

Yes, I do. Those were the days. Jordan playing in MSG was basketball theatre at its best as it was. But then you had the whole MJ-Charles Oakley connection, John Starks trying to out will Michael (big mistake), through both trash talk and physical play, in his attempt to become the next Michael (you were a wonderful streak shooter, Johnny, but it was never happening), etc. Bulls-Knicks mid '90s was one of the five greatest rivalries in NBA history.

Michael's return to the Garden in '95 when he dropped the double nickel was one of the greatest live basketball moments I have ever seen. There was certainly something special about those New York-Chicago meetings. Almost other-worldly in terms of hoops greatness. I miss those days like you wouldn't believe:(

Off-topic, but here's my top five greatest NBA rivalries ever:

1. Celtics-Lakers 1960s through '80s
2. Russell-Chamberlain
3. Bulls-Pistons 1987 through 1991
4. Bulls-Knicks 1990 through 1996
5. Pacers-Knicks 1993 through 2000

Honorable-Mention: Heat-Knicks 1997 through 2000

[Jumbo]

I saw all Knicks-Bulls up close and it's overrated as far as rivalries go. Yes, it was intense, but the Knicks never beat the Bulls with Jordan. There have been FAR greater rivalries throughout the league's history that span a much greater time period than the brief Knicks-Bulls tiff. Celtics-Sixers, for instance, has to be on the list. In fact, of your three post-80s rivalries, the only one that comes close to all-time status is Bulls-Pistons. Knicks-Pacers was intense and featured some classic games, but neither team was great, the quality of basketball was poor and neither team won a title. That matters. And the other thing in remembering 1990s hoops is that the product bottomed out. The physical defense, hard fouls, holding cutters, etc. left scores in the 80s and made the games really hard to watch at times. The level of basketball is SO much higher now, and I don't think the games are any less intense.

[jma4life]

Jumbo, do you think the talent quality is better or that it is better utilized due to the rule changes which make the game more enjoyable?

[Cameron]

Celtics-Sixers, for instance, has to be on the list.

I agree. Instead of simply putting Russell-Chamberlain, I should have put Boston-Philly. That was what I was aiming for anyway.

I disagree on Pacers-Knicks, though. I definitely think it deserves to be in the top five all-time. The two organizations met in the 1993, 1994, 1995, 1998, 1999, and 2000 playoffs. The seven game series' in the '94 Eastern Conference Finals and the '95 Eastern Conference Semi-Finals were legendary. Great, great basketball. Then you had the conference semi showdown in '98 and the Eastern Finals' match-ups in both '99 and '00. Pacers versus Knicks, small market Indiana versus Manhattan, Reggie versus Starks, Miller FINALLY trying to take out New York and get to the Finals, Miller Time on Broadway, Spike Lee, etc. The drama puts this one on the list of all-time greats hands down, IMO. Not budging on that one. So many great moments in NBA lore came from those battles. Miller's 8 points in 8 seconds, the 25 4th quarter points in the '94 "Choke Sign" game, his three-point buzzer tying shot in the '98 series, LJ's four-point play in '99, etc.

The one rivalry I am ashamed of leaving off my list, however, is the Celtics-Pistons from the '80s. I would replace that with Bulls-Knicks, I guess. The Bad Boys basically were rivals with anyone they played back then, but the Celtics may have been their biggest (or at least tied with Chicago.) Like the Bulls had to do with them, the Pistons had to fight like hell to overcome the power of Larry Bird and Boston in the East. Those spring wars were amazing. Bird and Lamb throwing it down under the basket, Rodman's post game comments at the Garden about Bird's "whiteness," and all the great basketball in between. Those series' were truly legendary.

I can't believe I left that one out. Shame on me.

[Jumbo]

Jumbo, do you think the talent quality is better or that it is better utilized due to the rule changes which make the game more enjoyable?

Both. The talent pool is constantly expanding as the basketball grows as an international sport. And the rule changes have taken away the overly physical aspect of defense and the iso basketball that dominated the 1990s. The pace of play has increased and teams have learned to find other ways to score. The game right now is better than it has been for at least 15 years.

[Cameron]

So what about this updated list, Jumbo:

1. Lakers-Celtics (1960s through 1980s)
2. Sixers-Celtics (Between these two cities, all-time, really)
3. Bulls-Pistons (1987 through 1991)
4. Celtics-Pistons (1980s)
5. Pacers-Knicks (1993 through 2000)

Could you agree with that? I know you don't line the Pacers-Knicks, though, so I would be interested to see what rivalry you would put in its place.

I'd be interested to see your list, if you wouldn't mind!

[dukeENG2003]

Both. The talent pool is constantly expanding as the basketball grows as an international sport. And the rule changes have taken away the overly physical aspect of defense and the iso basketball that dominated the 1990s.

The rules changes could also be one reason we have faltered recently in international ball. That "overly physical aspect of defense" is most definitely still present in FIBA basketball. Thats why its hard for NBA players to adjust to the game. I think K has done a good job of reminding our players of that. I remember watching Kobe and Kidd in the tournament of the Americas and thinking, "Wow, they are fouling the @#%^ out of people on defense, way to go coach K for understanding the rules differences and impressing that on your players!".

[BobbyFan]

As the Spurs are about to position themselves into a commanding series lead, the Hack-a-Shaq strategy is really annoying me.

It's brutal from an aesthetic standpoint for obvious reasons. And I'm not limiting my criticism to the today's game; I also don't enjoy watching teams that are losing foul endlessly to finish games. Premeditated fouls are not the reason foul penalties were created and should result in a larger penalty than simply a personal foul.

I can't fault Popovich for employing the strategy, nor do I think it has made much difference tonight. It's just a flaw in the rules that is being exploited, much like a virus exploits a security hole before a patch is made available.

[KandG]

Wow, D'Antoni's gone from being an offensive genius and one of the great coaching minds of the NBA, to possibly losing his job in a few weeks if the Spurs complete the sweep this Sunday.

I've rooted for the Suns all year, but it's been painful to see how poorly they defend the perimeter and handle the pick and roll. From Game 2 on, it was clear to see that the Phoenix defenders get rubbed out too easily on screens...quite a contrast to Dallas (which isn't exactly a powerhouse physical team) and the way they were able to go under screens to keep up with Chris Paul in Game 3 (though in fairness, Tony Parker has a much better mid range game than CP). The Suns seem completely incapable of playing shut down defense from more than a couple of stops at a time, and without Marion, their perimeter D is especially atrocious.

Re the talk of rivalries earlier in this thread, I'm a Knicks fan (obviously in hibernation given the state of the team), but I don't believe Knicks-Bulls was a particularly great rivalry...too one-sided. It was entertaining from the standpoint of the rivalry between the cities, and the Knicks did everything they could to get the trash talk and physical contact up to ratchet up the intensity. But I never felt the buzz from those games that I do from Duke-Carolina, or Lakers-Celtics, or Pistons-Bulls or Celtics-Sixers in the '80s.

[jma4life]

not to hijack but thats another reason why Duke-UNC is so special. It's always a great rivalry. Even when one of the teams sucks, theres still the excitement, ala 95. Unlike in pro sports where rivalries are as much a function of the players as they are of the teams, in college its all about the teams.

Anyway, I really think game one just mentally killed the suns. After that game, I think the spurs officially entered their heads. Some people may say they were there but the bottom line is that the Suns very easily could have won last year and should've been up one zero after stealing home court if not for a couple of rediculous shots in game one. But those shots went in and the Suns just have not been able to recover.


And Parker is stepping it up in the playoffs again. He was simply brilliant.

Also, I wish the Suns would've taken Simmon's advice and played hack Oberto as well or responded in some way.