Olympic team PG

[dkbaseball]

I guess Chris Paul lost the job last summer to Jason Kidd, backed up by Deron Williams and Chauncey Billups, a group that seemed to work well against negligible competition. But no question Paul has been the best pg in the NBA this year, and may pick up league MVP. He's an order of magnitude quicker than the other three. Does K stick with Kidd, who arguably is starting to slow down just a bit? Give the ball back to Paul? Williams?

I'm wondering also how much the Duke coaching staff's ability to evaluate player progress in Cameron pick-up games this summer will be hindered by being away for a long stretch with the O team. Do the assistants usually spend a lot of time watching in Cameron, or is that verboten by the NCAA and they get their info from others?

[bhd28]

I guess Chris Paul lost the job last summer to Jason Kidd, backed up by Deron Williams and Chauncey Billups, a group that seemed to work well against negligible competition. But no question Paul has been the best pg in the NBA this year, and may pick up league MVP. He's an order of magnitude quicker than the other three. Does K stick with Kidd, who arguably is starting to slow down just a bit? Give the ball back to Paul? Williams?

I'm wondering also how much the Duke coaching staff's ability to evaluate player progress in Cameron pick-up games this summer will be hindered by being away for a long stretch with the O team. Do the assistants usually spend a lot of time watching in Cameron, or is that verboten by the NCAA and they get their info from others?
Guess it depends on whether he is more interested in offense or defense in his PG. Offense, you might go with Paul, but for defense, Kidd is still clearly way better (and with Williams 2nd).

[BobbyFan]

Interesting question. While Paul has clearly passed Kidd and is having one of the greatest seasons ever by a PG, I think Kidd will remain the starter. His passing is even more invaluable when playing with such a talented roster.

[Inonehand]

No doubt Paul has been amazing this year but Kidd playing the point and feeding other scorers will be the choice.
And, Coach K gets his info from others during pickup games. I think the coaches can only do individual skills work (with a few guys at a time) and not monitor pickup games. I can assume any and all of the Duke NBA guys who come into town become very good scouts for K.

[roywhite]

This will be interesting to see which PG's make the team, and then who gets the major minutes.

One problem that K's first US team had in 2006 was defending the pick and roll at the top of the key; Greece in particular ran that very effectively. Seems like K went to bigger PG's the second time around, with Kidd, Billups, and Deron Williams, and would occasionally have LeBron or even Kobe at the top of the defense. The bigger defenders did better against the physical international pick and roll plays.

That said, Chris Paul has had a sensational season; with his great quickness, seems like he can go wherever he wants on the court and deliver the ball perfectly. He can certainly score and run the offense, but will he be the type of defender we need in the Olympics?

[FireOgilvie]

Paul leads the league in steals (and assists) and averages 10 more points a game than Kidd. He also has fewer turnovers a game than Kidd. He's up for MVP. I believe those that probably know more about this than I do, but why would Kidd get the nod over Paul? Is it something about the style of play in the Olympics vs. the NBA?

[Jumbo]

One problem that K's first US team had in 2006 was defending the pick and roll at the top of the key; Greece in particular ran that very effectively. Seems like K went to bigger PG's the second time around, with Kidd, Billups, and Deron Williams, and would occasionally have LeBron or even Kobe at the top of the defense. The bigger defenders did better against the physical international pick and roll plays.

That said, Chris Paul has had a sensational season; with his great quickness, seems like he can go wherever he wants on the court and deliver the ball perfectly. He can certainly score and run the offense, but will he be the type of defender we need in the Olympics?

Bingo, Roy. Well done. K talked a lot about the need for bigger point guards in international play. He's also not a huge fan of Chris Paul. That said, it will be hard to keep Paul off the team; he just might not play as much in certain games. There is no way K leaves Kidd off the team, even though the three guys are all better at this point. Not only does Kidd fill a valuable role by setting everyone and using his size, but K loves his leadership. Then, two questions have to be answered if Paul is on the team. Does K use a roster spot on a third PG, knowing that Wade can handle the point (as can LeBron)? And, if so, is it Williams or Billups? Those are some tough decisions to make. But they are good decisions to have.

[HK Dukie]

Alot of this will take care of itself over the next few months as players get tired and injured. Some will pull themselves out so no sense in stressing out about it now.

We will have a great team for the Olympics. I just wish I could watch the tryouts/practice.

[K24U]

Chris Paul was a dirty player in college. (How can one forget the punch in the nuts that Hodges took during the ACC Tournament) Chris Paul is a dirty player in the pro's. I can see the headlines now, Chris Paul starts war between US and China.

Seriously, Paul is not K's type of player and just in case you think Paul has changed since the ball hitting incident think again. Take a look at this article. (http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Tom7/2008/03/15/Chris_Paul_is_a_Dirty_Player)

[dukeENG2003]

Is it something about the style of play in the Olympics vs. the NBA?

YES. International basketball allows about 500% more contact than the NBA. Paul moves through defenses with ease in the NBA, but in the Olympics, he'd get roughed up. Frankly, I expect to see Kidd start, with Billups as his primary backup for this very reason. I expect Paul to compete with Williams for the 3rd PG spot, as I see Kidd and Billups as locks, for good reason. Kidd is on the team for sure, given his defense, and the fact that he's got a Gold medal.

[rtnorthrup]

This is a very interesting topic as both Kobe and LeBron like to play with the ball in their hands, much like our Duke team this year when Demarcus and Gerald (and to some extent Jon) did most of the penetrating.

So the question becomes, what are the most important roles for the PG on this olympic team? Do we need a pure penetrator/passer, will Defense be the number one priority, what about an outside shooting PG?

The real question to me will be what K does with Michael Redd and Mike Miller. Where does K get his 3-point shooters? Billups would add a long range threat at the point that Kidd, Paul and Deron do not bring. Lots of interesting choices to be made.

[BD80]

Chris Paul was a dirty player in college. (How can one forget the punch in the nuts that Hodges took during the ACC Tournament)

That is CP's way of pressuring the ball on D. :eek:

Kidd is cinch because of his experience and leadership. Nobody else on the team will question Kidd having the ball in key situations. Kidd also plays TEAM defense, and won't over commit for steals (a highly overrated stat for arguing a player's ability to play defense).

Chauncey is nearly a lock because he too has the respect of all of the other players (he has ring, multiple All Star trips and a Finals MVP) and the shorter three point line makes him a real weapon. He is probably the strongest of the point guards.

I don't think CP's NBA success will immediately translate to the international game. The zone defenses (or active help man-to-man D) in the international game will limit his penetration; remember, there is no defensive 3 second call to pull the bigs out of the lane. The international teams also do a much better job of rotating back to cut off fast breaks - so his speed would be less of a factor. CP would get killed (perhaps literally) by high screens. Last, CP wouldn't get the calls he currently enjoys in the NBA.

Although Allen Iverson had some statistical success in international play, his struggles to get into the lane should be a decent predictor as to CP's chances in the Olympics.

The beauty of it is, Coach K will have no pressure to pick CP because of his popularity. The only goal is to win, and they will let Coach K live and die with his choices. I predict that Williams gets the last spot because of his defense, three point shooting, and his ability to run the pick and roll.

[MrBisonDevil]

NBA playoffs end in June. Olympic basketball tourney is Aug 8-24.

Does the US Basketball team get a chance to practice against any international teams before Aug 8th?

I would like to see how our point guards match up against international guards. I'll try to find 07 FIBA videos...

[SilkyJ]

I expect Paul to compete with Williams for the 3rd PG spot, as I see Kidd and Billups as locks, for good reason. Kidd is on the team for sure, given his defense, and the fact that he's got a Gold medal.

In the backcourt, beyond Kidd, Kobe, Wade, and Redd I don't think anyone is necessarily a lock (Redd is a lock in my mind b/c we HAVE to have ONE token 3 pt specialist. its been too obvious of a weakness...) . Williams is still coming of age and has developed a very good jumper, but billups' Defense probably gives him the edge.

I used to think a 3rd PG is necessary, but as Jumbo points out, both Wade and Lebron are very capable creators...



The real question to me will be what K does with Michael Redd and Mike Miller. Where does K get his 3-point shooters? Billups would add a long range threat at the point that Kidd, Paul and Deron do not bring. Lots of interesting choices to be made.

Indeed. We are so stacked on the wing its unreal. The 3 factors I see contributing to who we take out there are: Defense, 3 pt shooting, athleticism/versatility (especially as it relates to our run and gun game). And b/c of that I think guys like battier and prince will have a serious shot b/c they can guard 3 positions, can run and finish in transition and are good to very good spot up 3 pt shooters. Of course, its tough to get PT when you are competing against Melo, Pierce, and Lebron, for PT.

BTW, why isn't KG on the team? I can only imagine that he declined an invite. To not include him would be just stupid.

[Hector Vector]

Assumes KG and Duncan still not playing:

Lebron
Kobe
Howard
Stoudemaire
Anthony
Wade (chance he will sit out because of injuries?)
Kidd
Paul
Redd (lit it up last year in role as designated shooter)
Boozer (but maybe need a big defender like Tyson Chandler)
D. Williams
Josh Howard (Prince, Battier, Jefferson all options as top wing defender)

[ugadevil]

I wonder if the looming court date of Carmelo will now affect his standing with the team? Last summer, he developed as the main offensive option and proved to be unstoppable.

[dukeENG2003]

yeah, KG and Duncan (and Shaq) declined to participate.

I'm SO excited about Stoudemire now, the way he has developed his jumpshot makes him a starter for sure IMO. My predicted starting lineup:

Kidd
Kobe
Lebron
'Melo
Stoudemire

I know it seems strange to have Howard off the bench, but Stoudemire's jumpshot makes up for his defensive shortcomings (its not like he's a BAD defender either, just not as good as Howard).

[Jumbo]

yeah, KG and Duncan (and Shaq) declined to participate.

I'm SO excited about Stoudemire now, the way he has developed his jumpshot makes him a starter for sure IMO. My predicted starting lineup:

Kidd
Kobe
Lebron
'Melo
Stoudemire

I know it seems strange to have Howard off the bench, but Stoudemire's jumpshot makes up for his defensive shortcomings (its not like he's a BAD defender either, just not as good as Howard).

The problem with Amare is he doesn't guard anyone. And his offensive game is built more for the NBA than international play. Anyway, here's my early guess at what the roster will look like.

Barring a shock, you'll have these nine guys:
Jason Kidd
Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
Michael Redd
LeBron James
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard
Amare Stoudemire
Carlos Boozer

There will be at least one backup PG among Paul, Billups and Williams for the 10th spot. Let's call it Chris Paul for the time being.
Then K will have to pick two guys who emerge from the following three battles: Williams vs. Billups; Battier vs. Prince; Bosh vs. Chandler.

It'll be interesting.

[SilkyJ]

The problem with Amare is he doesn't guard anyone. And his offensive game is built more for the NBA than international play. Anyway, here's my early guess at what the roster will look like.

Barring a shock, you'll have these nine guys:
Jason Kidd
Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
Michael Redd
LeBron James
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard
Amare Stoudemire
Carlos Boozer

There will be at least one backup PG among Paul, Billups and Williams for the 10th spot. Let's call it Chris Paul for the time being.
Then K will have to pick two guys who emerge from the following three battles: Williams vs. Billups; Battier vs. Prince; Bosh vs. Chandler.

It'll be interesting.

I agree with your "locks" and most of your battles, except that I think that Battier vs Prince battle is actually a little more complicated. You've also got Jamison, Pierce, and Marion battling there, and all 3 of those guys are all-stars. Will be verrrry interesting.

Oh and I would also throw Brand in the Bosh vs. Chandler battle, though I'm guessing you did not include him b/c he just returned from an injury a week ago and probably will sit out. (he has looked good though since his return so who knows...)

[ugadevil]

Oh and I would also throw Brand in the Bosh vs. Chandler battle, though I'm guessing you did not include him b/c he just returned from an injury a week ago and probably will sit out. (he has looked good though since his return so who knows...)

I thought Brand declined to participate because of his recent injury problems? Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't this on the front page a few days ago?

[Jumbo]

I agree with your "locks" and most of your battles, except that I think that Battier vs Prince battle is actually a little more complicated. You've also got Jamison, Pierce, and Marion battling there, and all 3 of those guys are all-stars. Will be verrrry interesting.

Oh and I would also throw Brand in the Bosh vs. Chandler battle, though I'm guessing you did not include him b/c he just returned from an injury a week ago and probably will sit out. (he has looked good though since his return so who knows...)

Brand won't play because of the injury and other concerns. Marion has played his way off the team because he became a cancer in the Phoenix locker room and doesn't get along with Amare. Seeing as he didn't play either of the previous two summers, they won't stick him on the roster this time. Pierce won't play either -- he is primarily a scorer and there are too many better scorers ahead of him on the wing. If Team USA adds another 3/4 hybrid, it'll be a defensive-oriented guy like Battier or Prince.

[dukeENG2003]

The problem with Amare is he doesn't guard anyone. And his offensive game is built more for the NBA than international play.

Not sure I understand how a big man with skills off the dribble and an excellent 17 ft jumpshot is built more for the NBA? He's not a back to the basket scorer, thats about the only knock I can see on his offensive game (and back to the basket scoring is less emphasized due to the trapezoidal lane). Amare's defensive game isn't NBA all defense or anything, but I think saying he "doesn't guard anyone" is being a bit harsh.

I think Prince is a lock personally, he's just too good. He combines a lot of the positives that Battier provides with a superior offensive game.

I kind of disagree about Boozer being a lock, he's still got some work to do if you ask me. With Anthony playing 4, Amare able to play it as well and Prince/Battier able to guard a 4 and provide added speed, that position is pretty loaded, while 5 has basically Howard as the only lock, I see Bosh and Chandler as just as likely as him (since they can play 5, Boozer is too short to guard Pau Gasol or Yao Ming).

[SilkyJ]

Marion has played his way off the team because he became a cancer in the Phoenix locker room and doesn't get along with Amare. Seeing as he didn't play either of the previous two summers, they won't stick him on the roster this time. Pierce won't play either -- he is primarily a scorer and there are too many better scorers ahead of him on the wing. If Team USA adds another 3/4 hybrid, it'll be a defensive-oriented guy like Battier or Prince.

, in your opinion.

I think you are probably right, and I think it ought to be a defensive oriented guy, but to state it like fact this early on is pretty bold. Pierce and Marion (and jamison) are big time players, and I think it'll be very tough to keep Pierce off this team.

[Jumbo]

, in your opinion.

I think you are probably right, and I think it ought to be a defensive oriented guy, but to state it like fact this early on is pretty bold. Pierce and Marion (and jamison) are big time players, and I think it'll be very tough to keep Pierce off this team.

Well, it's not purely my "opinion." I've been told Marion and Amare hate each other than that Marion is out of the mix, especially since he didn't play on either of the first two teams. I've also been told they like having someone in that Battier/Prince role that the previous two teams featured. That said, as I mentioned, the could take an additional big and a third point guard which would leave all the SFs out of the mix.

[SilkyJ]

A comment from Bill Simmons' latest piece:

To poor Jason Kidd, who got eviscerated by Chris Paul in Games 1 and 2 to the degree that he might have to pretend he's injured before the Olympics so we can replace him with Danny Noonan. Which reminds me ...

1. How dumb is it that we picked the Olympic team already? Kidd over Deron Williams? Really? That's our final answer? Do we need to hire the guys who attacked Nancy Kerrigan to rectify this? Also, are we sure Mike Miller is getting the shooter's spot over Ray Allen? Can we vote on this like it's "American Idol"?

2. Given the 2008 Olympic team has Kobe in his prime, as well as Paul and LeBron during their superduperstar breakout seasons, doesn't our '08 USA Hoops Team have the highest ceiling since the '92 Dream Team? That crunch-time lineup of Howard, LeBron, Paul, Melo and Kobe sounds three times more ridiculous than it did 12 months ago. Hey, speaking of Melo ...

1st off, Ray Allen isn't in the program so miller isn't even competing with him, he's competing with Redd, and right now its Redd's spot to lose.

It also seems like he has penciled Chris Paul into the starting lineup which is funny considering he seems to be considered #3 in the depth chart by members of this board. I used to be in that camp, but damn, he can really play...

[dkbaseball]

Anybody besides SilkyJ care to revisit this question in light of Kidd being by and large abused by Paul for the past five games? I think K has some very difficult personnel decisions on his hands.

[phaedrus]

Kidd is certainly not the player I thought he was when this thread was started, I'll say that much.

[dukemomLA]

Yes, no denying he's had/having a terrific season. BUT personally I think Coach K has been building a team with unselfish chemistry. CHEMISTRY is the key to the gold medal. CP is not that type of guy. USA does NOT need another scorer, they need an unselfish PG with vision, experience and a bit of humility and an unsatible need to win.

IMHO, the addition of CP to this mix would be a negative, not a positive.

I believe that Jason Kidd will be the 'starter' with Deron equal in importance. As to another PG to the roster... up for grabs. (Too bad Steve Nash is not an American).

[roywhite]

Yes, no denying he's had/having a terrific season. BUT personally I think Coach K has been building a team with unselfish chemistry. CHEMISTRY is the key to the gold medal. CP is not that type of guy. USA does NOT need another scorer, they need an unselfish PG with vision, experience and a bit of humility and an unsatible need to win.

IMHO, the addition of CP to this mix would be a negative, not a positive.

I believe that Jason Kidd will be the 'starter' with Deron equal in importance. As to another PG to the roster... up for grabs. (Too bad Steve Nash is not an American).

Didn't much like Chris Paul myself when he was in the ACC, particularly when he went through a stretch of dirty play (I always thought Prosser should have been more firm with him; can't imagine Coach K putting up with some of those antics). But have you been watching CP lately?

He is definitely more of an assist guy than a scorer; led the NBA in assists the past year with approx 11.5 per game. Last night against a very good team, Dallas, he had 15 assists and 0 turnovers. So the idea that he couldn't or wouldn't distribute the ball effectively doesn't ring true. So I could see CP making the team and getting plenty of time at the point.

The tricky consideration IMO is on defense. The 2006 USA team lost to Greece and had trouble with some other European teams that played physically and shot well; these teams used a pick-and-roll series at the top of the key a lot; CP had trouble defending against it, partly a function of being out-sized and out-muscled. The 2007 USA team, with Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups and Kidd, and also Kobe and LeBron playing defense at the top of the key occasionally, had no such trouble. So the bigger, more physical PG's seem better suited for defense in the international game.

I'll be watching the team selection and Olympic competition with interest; I don't think the lineup is firmly set just yet.

[BD80]

The 2007 USA team, with Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups and Kidd, and also Kobe and LeBron playing defense at the top of the key occasionally, had no such trouble. So the bigger, more physical PG's seem better suited for defense in the international game.


Don't overlook the fact that Kidd will be much more rested than CP :D

[CDu]

For all those who talk about Kidd's defense, I'm not so sure I agree that he's good defensively anymore. Against a guy like Chauncey Billups (where he can use his size to counteract the opponent's strength) he's solid. But he can no longer remotely guard the quicker PG with any success. It was a joke how bad Chris Paul made him look.

I can understand not being a fan of Chris Paul - I can't stand him either. But there's no way Kidd is a better option at this point in his career. He's living off his reputation at this point.

Another important consideration is that the international game emphasizes perimeter shooting ability. Needless to say, that's been one of Kidd's career-long weaknesses. He's great in transition, sees the floor really well, can post up well, and used to be able to defend against most anybody. He can't defend that well anymore and he can't shoot.

[dukeENG2003]

Paul will get manhandled in the international game. You have to be able to play through contact. I'll agree that Kidds defense hasn't been great recently, but at least he's shown he can be a solid defender. Paul hasn't proven ANYTHING defensively. Maturity is another thing, the officiating is "interesting" in international ball. I can see Paul getting frustrated and negative about it (this is that "chemistry" thing), while Kidd would be more willing to play through it.

Frankly, I'm not that high on Kidd right now either. I want to see Chauncey Billups start at PG for us. Big, tough, physical, plays great defense, and can shoot. In crunch time, give the ball to Kobe or Lebron, and have Chauncey spot up. If they double the ball, "Mr. Big Shot" will be ready to catch and shoot.