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shadowfax336
04-13-2008, 12:12 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3341815

Florida has now lost 2 players in the past week, 1 to the draft (unexpectedly) and 1 to a transfer. Apparently they're joining us on the "programs on decline" list. And I mean when was the last time they even made the NCAAs? Much less won a championship.

Jumbo
04-13-2008, 12:14 PM
Cool, I get to update my list in that other thread.

Lotus000
04-13-2008, 06:30 PM
Good grief, we're not on any decline. I hope that was sarcasm. I hope x Avogadro's #.

Bluedawg
04-13-2008, 06:36 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3341815

Florida has now lost 2 players in the past week, 1 to the draft (unexpectedly) and 1 to a transfer. Apparently they're joining us on the "programs on decline" list. And I mean when was the last time they even made the NCAAs? Much less won a championship.

One of them may not be totally "lost"


Sophomore center Marreese Speights entered the NBA draft Tuesday, although he did not hire an agent and left open the possibility of returning to school for his junior season.

ugadevil
04-13-2008, 10:40 PM
This story isn't surprising at all. Considering what Billy D said about his team after their loss in the SEC Tournament game, I wouldn't be shocked if more people left UF before next season. Come to think of it...why would ANYONE stay at UF? :D

BD80
04-14-2008, 12:18 AM
Jeff Goodman at FOXSports is reporting another transfer:

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox

Purdue freshman forward Scott Martin’s departure was odd.

Martin came in with the highly touted freshman class that included Robbie Hummel, E’Twaun Moore and JaJuan Johnson.

...

However, according to sources, Martin was unhappy with his role coming off the bench.

So much for being a team player. The 6-foot-8 forward still played 23 minutes against Baylor in a first-round win and 19 minutes in the second-round loss to Xavier.

Look for Martin to land somewhere in the Midwest, maybe a Butler or even a Notre Dame.

SilkyJ
04-14-2008, 12:05 PM
One of them may not be totally "lost"

Yea I won't be totally surprised to see Speights withdraw from the draft and return, just b/c I think he could be a top 5-10 pick next year if he keeps improving the way he has. Then again he's already a 1st rounder probably, so if it stays that way, I won't be surprised if he goes b/c that's been the trend...

Hot Route
04-14-2008, 12:13 PM
This story isn't surprising at all. Considering what Billy D said about his team after their loss in the SEC Tournament game, I wouldn't be shocked if more people left UF before next season. Come to think of it...why would ANYONE stay at UF? :D

I'm with you on that one....I could not believe he said what he said. "We aren't going to be any better next year..." Wow.

BD80
04-14-2008, 02:29 PM
FOXSports lists over 140 transfers so far:

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox

Villanova must have worked out a trade to the ACC to get King:

According to sources, former Villanova freshman guard Malcolm Grant has decided to transfer to Miami.

The 6-foot, 185-pound Brooklyn native averaged 5.6 points in 12.7 minutes this past season. He had an up-and-down season under Jay Wright, going for 23 points against Rutgers, 22 against Pittsburgh and 18 in a win over LSU.

However, the Wildcats had three young guards - sophomore Scottie Reynolds and freshmen Corey Stokes and Corey Fisher. It would have been difficult for Grant to get consistent minutes with that trio on front of him.

pfrduke
04-14-2008, 03:13 PM
Looking at that list was the first I'd heard that Shamari Spears would be leaving BC. They'll be super-thin in the frontcourt - Blair and Oates both graduated, IIRC.

TampaDuke
04-14-2008, 04:00 PM
FOXSports lists over 140 transfers so far:

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox

Wow, they list the Univ. of South Florida as having lost 4 transfers this year. They lose their number 5, 6, 7 and 9 scorers. Add to that they also lose three seniors (including the No. 2 scorer). That's a loss of 6 out of 13 roster players from this past year. Wouldn't want to be USF's coach next year!

NYC Duke Fan
04-15-2008, 03:07 AM
In my opinion the 6 elite basketball programs over the years are Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA and Indiana.

It seems to me that out of the six, more players have transferred from Duke in the past several years than the other five programs.

Am I correct or incorrect ? I don't recall any players transferreing from UCLA or Kansas

Edouble
04-15-2008, 10:36 AM
In my opinion the 6 elite basketball programs over the years are Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA and Indiana.

It seems to me that out of the six, more players have transferred from Duke in the past several years than the other five programs.

Am I correct or incorrect ? I don't recall any players transferreing from UCLA or Kansas

There was a really long discussion about this around a week ago, and Jumbo did some serious research to compare Duke to the programs that you mention. I can't remember the title (is it in the Taylor King to Transfer thread?), but maybe someone else can chime in and direct you to this excellent, comprehensive thread.

Jumbo
04-15-2008, 10:43 AM
In my opinion the 6 elite basketball programs over the years are Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA and Indiana.

It seems to me that out of the six, more players have transferred from Duke in the past several years than the other five programs.

Am I correct or incorrect ? I don't recall any players transferreing from UCLA or Kansas

That's incorrect (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131108&postcount=45).

JasonEvans
04-15-2008, 11:16 AM
In my opinion the 6 elite basketball programs over the years are Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA and Indiana.

It seems to me that out of the six, more players have transferred from Duke in the past several years than the other five programs.

Am I correct or incorrect ? I don't recall any players transferreing from UCLA or Kansas

Wow, are you ever about to get edjumacated.

I am reminded of a famous saying that has been applied to me many, many times over the years.


Better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.

I suggest you check out this post (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=131108#post131108) for a dose of reality.

--Jason " ;) " Evans

Duvall
04-15-2008, 11:25 AM
It's pretty clear that when people claim that Duke has had more transfers than most other schools, they really mean that Duke has had four transfers in the last five years while UNC hasn't had any during that span.

BD80
04-15-2008, 11:43 AM
I am reminded of a famous saying that has been applied to me many, many times over the years.


Thanks to our Emmy nominated alum Jay Bilas, we have another saying, "only slightly less famous":

"OK, take offense then. It's stupid."

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/lifeofkings/2008/04/this_is_why_jay_bilas_is_cool_1.html

NYC Duke Fan
04-15-2008, 12:04 PM
Wow, are you ever about to get edjumacated.

I am reminded of a famous saying that has been applied to me many, many times over the years.



I suggest you check out this post (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=131108#post131108) for a dose of reality.

--Jason " ;) " Evans

Thanks for the link. I certainly was wrong

Chard
04-15-2008, 01:50 PM
"OK, take offense then. It's stupid."


Out of that entire interview I loved that line the most.

Back on topic. I am in the camp that thinks Duke has a great shot at a FF next year. The team will be better. When Duke has just come off of a 28-6 season, that is saying something!

jma4life
04-15-2008, 11:10 PM
It should be pointed out that all of those schools but Duke have been in transitional periods with new coaches coming in over the past few years.

gofurman
04-15-2008, 11:18 PM
In my opinion the 6 elite basketball programs over the years are Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA and Indiana.

It seems to me that out of the six, more players have transferred from Duke in the past several years than the other five programs.

Am I correct or incorrect ? I don't recall any players transferreing from UCLA or Kansas

micah downs left KU for Gonzaga a year or so ago

Duvall
04-15-2008, 11:18 PM
It should be pointed out that all of those schools but Duke have been in transitional periods with new coaches coming in over the past few years.

I certainly hope that those new guys Boeheim and Calhoun catch on at their new schools.

UConn, Syracuse, Texas, Florida, Arizona and Michigan State have had their current coaches for a full decade, if not longer. And yet somehow they have enjoyed their full share of transfers, just like Duke.

jma4life
04-16-2008, 01:12 AM
I was referring to the post I will quote below and Jumbo's response that this post is incorrect. Tell me if I'm wrong but I do not see Syrcause, UCONN or the other schools that you mentioned in this post. As for the schools discussed, I am not sure how many of the transfers in these schools are attributable to the coaching changes but nonetheless, in comparing Duke solely to these schools, a glaring distinction is the absence of a coaching change at Duke in comparison with these schools.

One final point. We are talking about Duke here. I frankly don't care what goes on at UCONN, Syracuse or even some of these other elite programs. I know transfers are a part of the game and I know that for whatever reason, elite schools (all schools really) have always and will always have transfers. But as a fan that strives to see Duke reach it's highest level, I am slightly disappointed in the number of transfers from Duke. Whether or not this occurs at other schools is irrelevant to me. I am not strongly troubled by the transfers nor do I think it's an indication of a program in decline but it's definitely not a positive in any way.


"In my opinion the 6 elite basketball programs over the years are Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA and Indiana.

It seems to me that out of the six, more players have transferred from Duke in the past several years than the other five programs.

Am I correct or incorrect ? I don't recall any players transferreing from UCLA or Kansas

That's incorrect."

BD80
04-16-2008, 07:48 AM
Connecticut announced sophomore guard Doug Wiggins has asked to be released from his scholarship so he can transfer.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3348597

Junior forward Rodney Alexander has left the basketball team after just one season at Illinois.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3348597

Freshman forward Bryan Bouchie has been granted a release from Valparaiso and will transfer to another school
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3348569

wiscodevil
04-16-2008, 07:52 AM
That's incorrect (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131108&postcount=45).

just read your "comparative transfers/early entry/etc." post - thank you. that's a wonderful snapshot of the CBB landscape. Should put things in perspective for folks who think the sky is falling.

Thanks again!!

Duvall
04-16-2008, 11:15 AM
I was referring to the post I will quote below and Jumbo's response that this post is incorrect. Tell me if I'm wrong but I do not see Syrcause, UCONN or the other schools that you mentioned in this post. As for the schools discussed, I am not sure how many of the transfers in these schools are attributable to the coaching changes but nonetheless, in comparing Duke solely to these schools, a glaring distinction is the absence of a coaching change at Duke in comparison with these schools.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Yes, elite schools that have had coaching changes have had more coaching changes than Duke - that kind of goes without saying. They've also had transfers. If, as Jumbo did, you also look at elite schools that *haven't* coaching changes, you'll see that many of them have had as many transfers as Duke, if not more. This suggests that transfers are just something that happens to major college basketball programs.


One final point. We are talking about Duke here. I frankly don't care what goes on at UCONN, Syracuse or even some of these other elite programs. I know transfers are a part of the game and I know that for whatever reason, elite schools (all schools really) have always and will always have transfers. But as a fan that strives to see Duke reach it's highest level, I am slightly disappointed in the number of transfers from Duke. Whether or not this occurs at other schools is irrelevant to me. I am not strongly troubled by the transfers nor do I think it's an indication of a program in decline but it's definitely not a positive in any way.


But the number of transfers from Duke is in no way remarkable. Why is it even slightly disappointing?

jma4life
04-16-2008, 03:40 PM
I was simply responding to the person who compared Duke to other elite schools, aka, Kansas, UNC, UCLA, Indiana. These schools have obviously been affected greatly in terms of transfers from their coaching changes. Give me similar numbers for UNC under Dean Smith, Indiana under Knight and Kansas under Roy Williams in the 90s and you have a group that can actually be compared to Duke under Coach K. As of now, it's just not a fair comparison because those schools have been so greatly affected by their coaching changes. (UCONN with Calhoun is a valid comparison for sure)

As for why it's disappointing, I always want to see Duke be as good as it can be. Decreasing transfers to zero would make me happier so by definition, I am disappointed that transfers occur.

BD80
04-16-2008, 05:19 PM
... I always want to see Duke be as good as it can be. Decreasing transfers to zero would make me happier so by definition, I am disappointed that transfers occur.

So you are disappointed that Boykin transferred due to a medical issue in his family? You would be happier if he ignored his family and stayed an entire continent away? Nice.

jma4life
04-16-2008, 10:27 PM
Are you serious?

And for the record, absolutely, I would be happier if there were no medical situation that forced Boykin to leave. Given that there was a medical situation, I do not at all (as should be obvious) count that transfer against Duke. I am disappointed however that a situation occured which caused Boykin to have to transfer?

Are you saying you are not disappointed that the medical sitaution occurred. (Not disappointed in Duke but disappointed nonetheless because I most certainly am not happy that Boykin had to deal with a situation that forced him to have to transfer.

And again, just to be clear, given the situation, he did what any good family member would do and I frankly commend him. (I really shouldn't have to make this point but I guess with some posters it's necessary)

For the record, I was going to state that the Boykin transfer does not apply in my original post but I figured that it was implied, so sorry, next time I'll spend time confirming relatively obvious points if that makes you happier.

BD80
04-16-2008, 11:21 PM
For the record, I was going to state that the Boykin transfer does not apply in my original post but I figured that it was implied, so sorry, next time I'll spend time confirming relatively obvious points if that makes you happier.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your "disappointment", but it sounded like you were disappointed in the number of transfers over the last several years as if something should be done about it or that something was wrong

I am slightly disappointed in the number of transfers from Duke

Jamal is a significant percentage of our recent transfers. If Jamal is removed from the equation, is there really a statistical trend, or a problem, or even a concern?

Why are you concerned? How does this have any effect on the program?

Dean Smith had his share of transfers, as did Bob Knight (ever hear of Larry Bird?), and those were the days when transfers were not so prevalent. How has Duke failed compared to these icons?

I remember a lot of freshmen that left Duke after one year for a wide variety of reasons: it was too difficult, they were homesick, they didn't get along with a roommate, it was too hot or too cold. Are you "disappointed" if any freshmen leave?

Yes. I guess you should be more careful about your implications when your post expresses disappointment with the Duke program, that would make me happier at least. If you are just venting, fine, say so. But if you are trying to make some point, it would help if it were more clear.

jma4life
04-17-2008, 12:10 AM
All right, fair enough.

Again, I don't particularly think Duke is any worse than other schools. The only reason I initially got involved was to point out that I think it is flawed to compare Duke in the past ten years to UNC, Indiana, UCLA, and Kansas in the last ten years.

That said, while I have not seen Jumbo's thread, I don't suspect that Duke is any worse than UNC under Smith, Indiana under Knight, etc. But until there are zero players leaving Duke, improvement is possible. So why not strive for it.

And again, I never like to see someone feel as if Duke is not a great fit. If a player is homesick, I would like to think there is something Duke could do to make that player feel more comfortable. If a player feels as if their role on the team is not sufficient, I would like to see the staff to a better job of informing the recruit of the challenge of playing time (though I know K makes it clear that no pt is guaranteed) or of evaluating a player's ability to judge how well players handle adversity. (obviously this is easier said than done) Is this a major issue in my opinion. Not at all. Is it something which could potentially be improved. I believe so. Is it a good sign that this is something which some feel the need to complain about. Again, yes considering it pails in comparison to issues many other big time programs deal with.

gep
04-17-2008, 12:22 AM
I was thinking about this after I saw this in the TK thread... that TK is the 3rd McD AA on the Villanova team. Contrast that to 8(?) at Duke. And, if most (if not all) of the McD AA's at Duke think that they are "good" based on the McD AA "title", then they all feel they deserve PT. But, there's only 5 players at time... 3 of them will "sit". And, if there's other non-McD AA's on the roster and they are good enough to play, some (or all) of the remaining 3 will not play very much. And if they think they should be playing, then the alternatiive, to me, is to transfer. As absurd as it sounds, it almost appears that less McD AA's at Duke is one way to reduce the perceived high rate of transfers... (my 2 cents)