Czyz playing in D.C.

[dkbaseball]

in the Capital Classic Sunday. At the risk of having my rose-tinted lenses challenged, I'd be very interested to get the impressions of anyone who attends. He might be able to display some of his skills in a game like this, as the mano-a-mano thing appeals to him more than some Duke recruits. He will be in the slam dunk contest, maybe three-point shooting.

Ralph Sampson Jr. will also be playing.

[pratt '04]

Looks like it will be shown on the Mid Atlantic Sports Network (http://masnsports.com/2008/04/masn-program-listings-for-sund-6.html)

[Ignatius07]

Too bad MASN is not in HD... at least for Cox subscribers.

[Indoor66]

in the Capital Classic Sunday. At the risk of having my rose-tinted lenses challenged, I'd be very interested to get the impressions of anyone who attends. He might be able to display some of his skills in a game like this, as the mano-a-mano thing appeals to him more than some Duke recruits. He will be in the slam dunk contest, maybe three-point shooting.

Ralph Sampson Jr. will also be playing.

Anyone know the time of the game?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Too bad MASN is not in HD... at least for Cox subscribers.

And Time Warner doesn't carry it at all - they are still in court arguing about what tier it would be in.

[BlueDevilBaby]

5:30ish according to MASN web site.

[dkbaseball]

Anyone know the time of the game?

5:30, per the MASN link.

[Indoor66]

5:30, per the MASN link.

Thanks all. I don't see the game listed on Comcast in SE Florida.

[yancem]

Too bad MASN is not in HD... at least for Cox subscribers.

Do we get MASN? I'm not sure I've seen it, what channel is it?

[jimsumner]

"And Time Warner doesn't carry it at all - they are still in court arguing about what tier it would be in."

Yep. And Time-Warner actually lost an arbitration hearing and they're still fighting it.

[dkbaseball]

Thanks all. I don't see the game listed on Comcast in SE Florida.

Ironic, given it's being played in the Comcast Center. The blogger for the Reno paper said he thought it was being televised only by MASN in the D.C. area, but wasn't sure.

[arnie]

"And Time Warner doesn't carry it at all - they are still in court arguing about what tier it would be in."

Yep. And Time-Warner actually lost an arbitration hearing and they're still fighting it.

That's one of many reasons I switched to Direct TV in the Triangle - they carry MASN and many, many more HD channels.

[kramerbr]

Is anyone currently watching the game and could provide some insight on Olek?

[jimbonelson]

he has 10 points at half with a spectacular 360 dunk in final minute of half

[roywhite]

Is anyone currently watching the game and could provide some insight on Olek?

Have watched good part of first half. Typical all-star game with sloppiness, etc.

Impressed with Czyz. First word would be "athlete". Runs very well, jumps very well, really strong frame (he looks very strong but doesn't appear to be cut in a weight-training sense).

Believe he has 10 points at half. Did not start, but has played about half the time for US team, which is up by 15 or so at half. Finished the first half with an absolutely spectacular spinning dunk. (Apparently he did not compete in slam dunk contest, and the annoucer said he would have been "an odds-on choice to win"). Has scored mostly close to the basket with short shots and an offensive rebound basket.

Seems to have lateral quickness as well as good speed. Really interesting prospect; can't compare him to other Duke players off-hand.

[Kishiznit]

He looks good - I've seen video of him during the regular season but it's nice to see him live. He is surprisingly strong and VERY athletic. He is very coordinated - loves to dunk...he had a nice 360 in the 1st half. Showed signs of defensive ability (even during an all-star game).

[Kishiznit]

He just missed a windmill dunk - SHOULD SEE BIG MINUTES NEXT YEAR

[Kishiznit]

MVP of the game

[roywhite]

MVP of the game

Finished with 23 points (9-14? FG, I believe) and 9 rebounds. Looks good at the FT line, too.

Typical all-star game disclaimers aside, this guy looks like a player. IMO, if he reacts well to coaching, and learns Duke defense, he could get 20+ minutes a game next year, and be even better down the line.

[kramerbr]

Does anyone know of a website that might have some highlights from the game?

[shadowfax336]

Finished with 23 points (9-14? FG, I believe) and 9 rebounds. Looks good at the FT line, too.

Typical all-star game disclaimers aside, this guy looks like a player. IMO, if he reacts well to coaching, and learns Duke defense, he could get 20+ minutes a game next year, and be even better down the line.

Yep he'll be getting 20+ a game along with Marty, and Email, and every other "backup quarterback syndrome" player on the team...

just look at the Marty thread...

[dkbaseball]

Yep he'll be getting 20+ a game along with Marty, and Email, and every other "backup quarterback syndrome" player on the team...

just look at the Marty thread...

Do you not think there's a difference between Duke's needs on the perimeter next year and its needs inside?

[FireOgilvie]

Yep he'll be getting 20+ a game along with Marty, and Email, and every other "backup quarterback syndrome" player on the team...

just look at the Marty thread...

Except he'll be competing with Lance Thomas, McClure, and Zoubek for minutes... I like his odds.

[roywhite]

Yep he'll be getting 20+ a game along with Marty, and Email, and every other "backup quarterback syndrome" player on the team...

just look at the Marty thread...

Just speculation at this point, but our frontcourt situation is different than our backcourt situation. We need size and athleticism up front, and Olek has some tools.

[yancem]

I was quite impressed! I'm not sure I'm buying the 20+ mpg but Czyz looks like he should be able to contribute next year. He definitely brings much needed size and athleticism to the team. It was also nice to see that he has some low post moves. I was a little worried he would be a little like McRoberts and rely solely on dunks. I wouldn't confuse him with Kevin McHale but he looks like fairly solid in the post.

[CDu]

Yep he'll be getting 20+ a game along with Marty, and Email, and every other "backup quarterback syndrome" player on the team...

just look at the Marty thread...

There's a BIG difference between saying Czyz could get 20+ minutes per game and saying Williams or Pocius could get 20+ minutes per game. Czyz doesn't have multiple potential All-ACC players in front of him at his positions. In fact, he doesn't even necessarily have a sure-fire starter in front of him right now. Both Zoubek and Thomas certainly have their questions.

I'm not saying that Czyz will get 20+ minutes per game. But there's certainly an opening for those minutes. Singler will play close to 30 minutes per game. That leaves probably 45-50 minutes per game at the "4" and "5" spots (assuming as many as 5 minutes per game when the team goes small). The best of Czyz, Zoubek, Thomas, and McClure may very well get 20+ minutes per game next year. It is not completely out of the question for Czyz to be that guy.

If I had to guess, I'd say Czyz won't be getting 20+ minutes per game next year. But I'd say it is most certainly more likely that he will play 20+ minutes per game next year than that Pocius will play 15+ minutes per game next year.

[Jumbo]

Do you not think there's a difference between Duke's needs on the perimeter next year and its needs inside?

The point is he hasn't proven anything against the kind of competition he'll face next year. It's way too early to be placing any kind of expectations on him, and posts predicting 20-plus minutes out of him based on watching an all-star game are absurd.

[CDu]

The point is he hasn't proven anything against the kind of competition he'll face next year. It's way too early to be placing any kind of expectations on him, and posts predicting 20-plus minutes out of him based on watching an all-star game are absurd.

I agree with you that he's proven nothing yet. But regardless, wouldn't you agree Czyz has a better shot at being a 20+ minutes per game player next year than Pocius, based simply upon who is on the depth chart at their respective positions? I think that was the point that the previous poster was trying to make - not that Czyz is in any way a proven commodity at this point.

[Kishiznit]

I would have to think that he gets more minutes than Marty next year but that is only because I'm trying to predict the rotation. The last 3 years I have tried to predict the rotation but the only rotation that I'm good at predicting is that the 5 that are on the court with 8 1/2 minutes to go in the game will be the same 5 when the horn sounds (if the game is close).

This kid can play and he plays to win rather than playing not to lose. I was less than impressed with his ability to get defensive boards but it was an all star game.

[beltwayBD]

Czyz was a beast tonight. "Czyz!" Can't you just here the Crazies whispering that? "Shhhhhhhizzzssss...."

I was very impressed. Even with the missed windmill dunk that the announcers couldn't stop talking about. :D

He's strong. He's very built. He's agile and fast. Stronger than Thomas, faster than Zoubek. If he can play defense (who knows in this kind of game), I think he will get major back-up time behind Singler and Thomas (whom I envision starting again next year). If he learns quickly, he might even challenge Thomas for that starting spot. Might.

Wish I had seen Email (not used to saying that yet) at the McDonalds game, this was fun.

[roywhite]

The point is he hasn't proven anything against the kind of competition he'll face next year. It's way too early to be placing any kind of expectations on him, and posts predicting 20-plus minutes out of him based on watching an all-star game are absurd.

Ouch. Here I thought this was a fan's board where we talked about Duke basketball, and in the off-season there are not many basketball things to talk about. I was just expressing an observation and opinion. No need to be so harsh.

[Jumbo]

I agree with you that he's proven nothing yet. But regardless, wouldn't you agree Czyz has a better shot at being a 20+ minutes per game player next year than Pocius, based simply upon who is on the depth chart at their respective positions? I think that was the point that the previous poster was trying to make - not that Czyz is in any way a proven commodity at this point.

I think it's sort of a pointless argument, as neither will happen.

[Jumbo]

Ouch. Here I thought this was a fan's board where we talked about Duke basketball, and in the off-season there are not many basketball things to talk about. I was just expressing an observation and opinion. No need to be so harsh.

I'm sorry if you thought that was harsh. This is a fan board where we discuss Duke basketball. That means people will also disagree with you, as I did in that case. It's no big deal.

[roywhite]

I'm sorry if you thought that was harsh. This is a fan board where we discuss Duke basketball. That means people will also disagree with you, as I did in that case. It's no big deal.

Fine with me. Did you see Czyz play tonight? Have you seen him play? What is your opinion of how he fits into Duke's plans for next year?

[CDu]

I think it's sort of a pointless argument, as neither will happen.

So you're saying that there's no chance that any of the following could happen?

a) Czyz is better than both Thomas and Zoubek
b) Zoubek winds up not being healthy, and Czyz and Thomas are about even (both getting about 20 minutes per game)

I agree that I don't THINK Czyz will play 20+ minutes next year. As I said, if I had to guess, I'd certainly guess that he won't. I suspect that Thomas and Zoubek will be further along. But to say that there's no chance of Czyz averaging 20+ minutes is, well, pretty short-sighted, in my opinion. It's rarely a good idea to deal in absolutes like that. Especially considering that you haven't seen him play against college competition (or against Thomas and Zoubek).

[Cali-Duke]

http://prepballerstv.com/olekczyz.html

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6956711291717438546

hopefully people will upload more recent clips

[ikiru36]

Glad to hear that Czyz played well though I certainly agree it doesn't mean a lot in and of itself (one game, and a regional all-star game at that).

In terms of him stealing interior minutes from Lance or Zoubek, how tall is he (a real 6'8"+?), what is his wingspan like and (while everyone seems to agree he has impressive vertical leap), is he quick off his feet as a rebounder/shot blocker? These are three things that pretty much can't be taught (Obviously the third can be improved upon but it still seems a largely innate talent.) Zoubs already offers us real height/size, Lance a solid wingspan (I think), but (while I love 'em) neither has thusfar proven to have a special knack as a rebounder or interior defensive presence. If Czyz can bring either of these, I imagine he may garner some significant minutes. I'm guessing his other main competition will be David but if Czyz is a legit 6'8" that does give him some added versatility at the 5 that McClure can't naturally offer against most front-courts.

Anyways, thanks to all for any Czyz information. I know he's kind of a late bloomer as a top prospect but him doing well at this All-Star game certainly is better than him stinking there. I'll take it to at least indicate that he may be continuing to improve which is great!

Go Czyz!!!!!!!!! Go Blue Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[beltwayBD]

In terms of him stealing interior minutes from Lance or Zoubek, how tall is he (a real 6'8"+?), what is his wingspan like and (while everyone seems to agree he has impressive vertical leap), is he quick off his feet as a rebounder/shot blocker? These are three things that pretty much can't be taught (Obviously the third can be improved upon but it still seems a largely innate talent.) Zoubs already offers us real height/size, Lance a solid wingspan (I think), but (while I love 'em) neither has thusfar proven to have a special knack as a rebounder or interior defensive presence. If Czyz can bring either of these, I imagine he may garner some significant minutes. I'm guessing his other main competition will be David but if Czyz is a legit 6'8" that does give him some added versatility at the 5 that McClure can't naturally offer against most front-courts.

Nice analysis.

Funny part I didn't mention. In the post-game interview (where they told him he was the MVP of the game), they just couldn't stop giving him a hard time about the missed dunk. I felt so bad for him. Here's this 17-18 year old kid, winded, and some aging boomer is giving him a hard time about missing a dunk. So poor Czyz is defensive through the whole interview.

On the predictive value of this stuff....I did the scouting report of the Blue Devils at the Verizon Center last month. Not cuz I thought it would be predictive of anything. Just cuz I thought it was fun. And this kind of thing is fun, too, even if it's predictive of nothing.

[roywhite]

Funny part I didn't mention. In the post-game interview (where they told him he was the MVP of the game), they just couldn't stop giving him a hard time about the missed dunk. I felt so bad for him. Here's this 17-18 year old kid, winded, and some aging boomer is giving him a hard time about missing a dunk. So poor Czyz is defensive through the whole interview.

One of the announcers was Chris Knoche, who is the basketball color analyst for the Maryland Terp network. He, especially, was getting in the anti-Duke jabs at every opportunity.

[Kishiznit]

Get ready for a lot of this lineup next year.......
Singler
Czyz
Henderson
E. Williams
Smith/Paulus

It would be nice to see Zoubek at 5 and Singler and Czyz playing 3/4 but with the talent we always have in the backcourt and wings, we have to go <6'5" in at least 3 positions.

[NM Duke Fan]

I posted for several years in the "good old days" of the old bulletin board, and it is good to see some familiar names still around. This is my first post in well over a year, so here goes:

I recall reading an interview with Czyz where he stated that he fully expected to compete for a starting job as a freshman, and I was very glad to hear those words. He has a certain assertiveness and boldness in his demeanor and game, and he isn't going to back down from much of anything or anyone (Interesting that he shares the same last name as a Polish-American boxer from the recent past). So for himself at least he isn't shying away from the placement of high expectations upon him, he is confident in his ability to contribute.

One thing is for sure, unlike quite a few recent slender Duke freshman he is physically mature beyond his years, and the team this season lacked physical maturity in some key spots. He already has the muscle to compete with the rugged players like we all saw in some of the recent NCAA tournament games, and he has the habit of playing hard on both offense and defense and goes for the rack anytime it is a viable option. A few dunks now and then can energize the whole team! Also remember that he is quite young and could easily grow another inch or so and add another 5 or even ten pounds.

This team is well-stocked with small forwards who have been asked to play power positions, and who by the end of the season just didn't have the explosion and strength that they had in the middle of the year. I've seen posts where people hope that Thomas adds 20 lbs of muscle! Fortunately Zoubek is a natural for a power position, and has much undeveloped potential. But in my view Czyz is one of those superior athletes that comes along only so often, and he has the tools and the attitude to compete for major minutes inside. At times Zoubek and Czyz may even play together. With his excellent leaping ability, if he learns the finer points of shot blocking he could become a superb help defender. Like the vast majority of freshman he will have to learn the finer points of Duke's defensive scheme, but I for one am optimistic that Duke's inside game has a nice chance to be significantly improved by the middle of next season. :)

[JBDuke]

Get ready for a lot of this lineup next year.......
Singler
Czyz
Henderson
E. Williams
Smith/Paulus

It would be nice to see Zoubek at 5 and Singler and Czyz playing 3/4 but with the talent we always have in the backcourt and wings, we have to go <6'5" in at least 3 positions.

Please explain why you believe that we will see "a lot" of a lineup that has two unproven freshmen and no Scheyer or Thomas, both of whom have started for the Blue Devils in the past and can be expected to improve over the summer. A warning - failure to do so may have your post dismissed as irrational exuberance based on the performances of incoming freshmen in all-star games...

[Jumbo]

Get ready for a lot of this lineup next year.......
Singler
Czyz
Henderson
E. Williams
Smith/Paulus

It would be nice to see Zoubek at 5 and Singler and Czyz playing 3/4 but with the talent we always have in the backcourt and wings, we have to go <6'5" in at least 3 positions.

Uh, why should we get ready for a lot of that lineup? Is Jon Scheyer moving to Finland?

[shadowfax336]

Get ready for a lot of this lineup next year.......
Singler
Czyz
Henderson
E. Williams
Smith/Paulus

It would be nice to see Zoubek at 5 and Singler and Czyz playing 3/4 but with the talent we always have in the backcourt and wings, we have to go <6'5" in at least 3 positions.

Yep cuz Williams is gonna replace Scheyer for minutes... and Czyz (not even a top 50 recruit, and viewed as an athletic project) is going to come in and replace two junior big men who came in with a lot more of a pedigree and have 2 years in the system already...

you say this... why exactly?

[shadowfax336]

Uh, why should we get ready for a lot of that lineup? Is Jon Scheyer moving to Finland?

wow my response was completely outclassed in the "witty disdain" category

[devildeac]

Get ready for a lot of this lineup next year.......
Singler
Czyz
Henderson
E. Williams
Smith/Paulus

It would be nice to see Zoubek at 5 and Singler and Czyz playing 3/4 but with the talent we always have in the backcourt and wings, we have to go <6'5" in at least 3 positions.

Paging Mr. Scheyer. Is Jon Scheyer in the house?

[devildeac]

Uh, why should we get ready for a lot of that lineup? Is Jon Scheyer moving to Finland?

Finland? Did someone mention Finland?

Finland, Finland, Finland, that's the country for me!
(various animal noises)
Finland is the country where we dance
Finland is the country where we play
Here in Finland boy and girl can find a true romance
In traditional Scandinavian way...

lovingly stolen from "Spamalot"(Jason Evans or someone did mention on another thread that we should try to quote Monty Python in most/all of our replies:D ).

We now return you to our regularly scheduled thread...

[mcdukie]

I'm not saying that Czyz is the second coming or anything, but after what we have seen of Thomas and Zoubek I can't help but to think he has a shot at 20 plus minutes. I'm hoping worst case he gives us a finisher and a rebounder. As far as the broadcast goes, I agree that Knoche got his diggs in whenever he could.

[DBFAN]

How do you pronounce his last name?

[dkbaseball]

With respect to Olek's ability to compete for time in Duke's post rotation next year, here is my best estimate, after seeing him play 12 times, as to how his tools rank compared to the other four players, Singler, Zoubek, Thomas and McClure. With the qualifier that Greg is the only current Duke player I have seen play in person; the others only on TV, which makes the attempt to compare more problematic. OTOH, I haven't seen Olek play on TV, so anyone who saw him today through the camera lens can serve as a check on my take.

Ability to run the floor -- number one.

Leaping -- 1

Strength -- 1. If any of the others can power clean 275 maybe I'll take it back.

Lateral quickness -- 1

Aggressiveness -- 1

Outside shooting -- 2. Behind Kyle, but on the rise with a bullet. He didn't take more than about one three-pointer a game in high school, but reputedly in practice he always goes shot-for-shot in 3-point contests with a teammate of his named Austin Morgan, a junior who is being recruited by Stanford and others after scoring 37 in the state final. Morgan is the best shooter I've seen in high school since another Austin in '67, a fellow by the name of Carr who showed up in ESPN's recent list of the 25 greatest college basketball players.

Passing -- 1. Yes, better than Kyle, based on what I've seen. A very clever passer, both in half court sets and triggering the break. Does tend to hold the ball a bit long waiting for the highlight reel assist, but I love his potential for playing with other good passers.

Rebounding -- I'm not sure, really. I do agree with the poster who said he's not great at getting defensive position for boards, and I don't think he's been well coached on the defensive end under the bucket. Kyle probably gets better position, and Zoubs certainly takes more space. But Czyz is strong, explosive, a great leaper and willing to bang.

Shot blocking -- Not sure here either, since he wasn't allowed by his high school coach to try it near the basket. It does seem like he has the potential to be really good at coming over on help defense and having a go at it.

Low post scoring -- 3 or 4 now. Kyle has polished post moves, and Zoubs is so close to the basket that if you can get it to him there, and he doesn't bring the ball down, chances are he'll score. Lance was starting to convert more baskets down low later in the season. But Olek is the most explosive of them and has the quickest first step. This is where Wojo could really earn his money teaching Olek a few moves he can rely on.

Finishing on the break -- 1. Nobody but Grant and Gerald have been comparable, among Duke players.

Playing Duke's style of interior defense -- potentially 1, once he learns what to do. Really extraordinary at getting in somebody's grill on the perimeter and then beating feet back to the basket to take a charge, block a shot or whatever.

Physical confidence, i.e., knowing deep down inside that you have a physical edge on most of the other lads, and carrying yourself accordingly -- 1.

Mental confidence -- thinking your shots are going to drop, you're going to make a play when needed, and so forth -- probably 2, after Kyle. He's coming to school on the heels of a state championship and MVP at an all-star game, and thinking he's a great player. I don't think Duke's Darwinian practice culture will break him, because he's the most physical player in the program and can always fall back on that. Plus, the competition in the post rotation isn't that strenuous.

Drive -- 1 or 2. Right there with Kyle. He wants to be great. Will be pursuing a PhD, as Bo Ryan likes to say -- poor, hungry and driven.

I guarantee he's going to compete hard for time. At the very least, can we please retire the "project" meme? He's going to be in the mix next year, and Thomas, Zoubek and McClure had better get ready.

[ikiru36]

I'm not saying that Czyz is the second coming or anything, but after what we have seen of Thomas and Zoubek I can't help but to think he has a shot at 20 plus minutes. I'm hoping worst case he gives us a finisher and a rebounder. As far as the broadcast goes, I agree that Knoche got his diggs in whenever he could.

Please avoid the unnecessary backhanded disses of Lance and Brian. I hope that Czyz is ready to contribute as a Freshman (and I'm increasingly hopeful this may be the case).

However, while I'd love for Lance and Brian to have already emerged as All-ACC by now, they are actually quite young for their years (Brian just turned 20 last week, Lance later this month - for comparison, Psycho T was 20 before his first game his Freshman year) and they have faced assorted injuries thusfar in their careers. I know that it may seem that 2 seasons is long enough to have seen their capabilities but in actuality, despite their youth and sundry setbacks they've each already shown flashes of significant potential. More to the point, they continue to positively represent Duke Basketball and need not be disrespected by our own fans.

This post is really not directed at you specifically Mcdukie as I frequently see these kinds of subtle (and not so subtle) digs at players who we feel have disappointed our hopes/expectations. (Hey, I've had such thoughts myself from time to time.) I will only speak for myself in stating that I try to avoid such expressions in a public forum which may be read by players, their family, their friends, recruits...etc. I also just feel that there's a bad karma to dissing our own.

I hope this doesn't come across as condescending as this isn't my intent. May Czyz meet all our most lofty expectations so as to vie with Lance and Brian for All-ACC kudos next year!!!

Go Lance!!! Go Brian!!!! Go Olek!!!!! Go Blue Devils!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!

[Jumbo]

With respect to Olek's ability to compete for time in Duke's post rotation next year, here is my best estimate, after seeing him play 12 times, as to how his tools rank compared to the other four players, Singler, Zoubek, Thomas and McClure. With the qualifier that Greg is the only current Duke player I have seen play in person; the others only on TV, which makes the attempt to compare more problematic. OTOH, I haven't seen Olek play on TV, so anyone who saw him today through the camera lens can serve as a check on my take.

Ability to run the floor -- number one.

Leaping -- 1

Strength -- 1. If any of the others can power clean 275 maybe I'll take it back.

Lateral quickness -- 1

Aggressiveness -- 1

Outside shooting -- 2. Behind Kyle, but on the rise with a bullet. He didn't take more than about one three-pointer a game in high school, but reputedly in practice he always goes shot-for-shot in 3-point contests with a teammate of his named Austin Morgan, a junior who is being recruited by Stanford and others after scoring 37 in the state final. Morgan is the best shooter I've seen in high school since another Austin in '67, a fellow by the name of Carr who showed up in ESPN's recent list of the 25 greatest college basketball players.

Passing -- 1. Yes, better than Kyle, based on what I've seen. A very clever passer, both in half court sets and triggering the break. Does tend to hold the ball a bit long waiting for the highlight reel assist, but I love his potential for playing with other good passers.

Rebounding -- I'm not sure, really. I do agree with the poster who said he's not great at getting defensive position for boards, and I don't think he's been well coached on the defensive end under the bucket. Kyle probably gets better position, and Zoubs certainly takes more space. But Czyz is strong, explosive, a great leaper and willing to bang.

Shot blocking -- Not sure here either, since he wasn't allowed by his high school coach to try it near the basket. It does seem like he has the potential to be really good at coming over on help defense and having a go at it.

Low post scoring -- 3 or 4 now. Kyle has polished post moves, and Zoubs is so close to the basket that if you can get it to him there, and he doesn't bring the ball down, chances are he'll score. Lance was starting to convert more baskets down low later in the season. But Olek is the most explosive of them and has the quickest first step. This is where Wojo could really earn his money teaching Olek a few moves he can rely on.

Finishing on the break -- 1. Nobody but Grant and Gerald have been comparable, among Duke players.

Playing Duke's style of interior defense -- potentially 1, once he learns what to do. Really extraordinary at getting in somebody's grill on the perimeter and then beating feet back to the basket to take a charge, block a shot or whatever.

Physical confidence, i.e., knowing deep down inside that you have a physical edge on most of the other lads, and carrying yourself accordingly -- 1.

Mental confidence -- thinking your shots are going to drop, you're going to make a play when needed, and so forth -- probably 2, after Kyle. He's coming to school on the heels of a state championship and MVP at an all-star game, and thinking he's a great player. I don't think Duke's Darwinian practice culture will break him, because he's the most physical player in the program and can always fall back on that. Plus, the competition in the post rotation isn't that strenuous.

Drive -- 1 or 2. Right there with Kyle. He wants to be great. Will be pursuing a PhD, as Bo Ryan likes to say -- poor, hungry and driven.

I guarantee he's going to compete hard for time. At the very least, can we please retire the "project" meme? He's going to be in the mix next year, and Thomas, Zoubek and McClure had better get ready.

I respect the fact that you've seen him a bunch of times in high school. But do you realize what people who saw Lance Thomas play in high school were saying? That, plus more. Fact is, Olek wasn't exactly playing in one of the better basketball communities around. I hope he turns out to be as good as you've advertised, but the last thing we need is another player to be burdened by unrealistic expectations.

[shadowfax336]

With respect to Olek's ability to compete for time in Duke's post rotation next year, here is my best estimate, after seeing him play 12 times, as to how his tools rank compared to the other four players, Singler, Zoubek, Thomas and McClure. With the qualifier that Greg is the only current Duke player I have seen play in person; the others only on TV, which makes the attempt to compare more problematic. OTOH, I haven't seen Olek play on TV, so anyone who saw him today through the camera lens can serve as a check on my take.

Ability to run the floor -- number one.

Leaping -- 1

Strength -- 1. If any of the others can power clean 275 maybe I'll take it back.

Lateral quickness -- 1

Aggressiveness -- 1

Outside shooting -- 2. Behind Kyle, but on the rise with a bullet. He didn't take more than about one three-pointer a game in high school, but reputedly in practice he always goes shot-for-shot in 3-point contests with a teammate of his named Austin Morgan, a junior who is being recruited by Stanford and others after scoring 37 in the state final. Morgan is the best shooter I've seen in high school since another Austin in '67, a fellow by the name of Carr who showed up in ESPN's recent list of the 25 greatest college basketball players.

Passing -- 1. Yes, better than Kyle, based on what I've seen. A very clever passer, both in half court sets and triggering the break. Does tend to hold the ball a bit long waiting for the highlight reel assist, but I love his potential for playing with other good passers.

Rebounding -- I'm not sure, really. I do agree with the poster who said he's not great at getting defensive position for boards, and I don't think he's been well coached on the defensive end under the bucket. Kyle probably gets better position, and Zoubs certainly takes more space. But Czyz is strong, explosive, a great leaper and willing to bang.

Shot blocking -- Not sure here either, since he wasn't allowed by his high school coach to try it near the basket. It does seem like he has the potential to be really good at coming over on help defense and having a go at it.

Low post scoring -- 3 or 4 now. Kyle has polished post moves, and Zoubs is so close to the basket that if you can get it to him there, and he doesn't bring the ball down, chances are he'll score. Lance was starting to convert more baskets down low later in the season. But Olek is the most explosive of them and has the quickest first step. This is where Wojo could really earn his money teaching Olek a few moves he can rely on.

Finishing on the break -- 1. Nobody but Grant and Gerald have been comparable, among Duke players.

Playing Duke's style of interior defense -- potentially 1, once he learns what to do. Really extraordinary at getting in somebody's grill on the perimeter and then beating feet back to the basket to take a charge, block a shot or whatever.

Physical confidence, i.e., knowing deep down inside that you have a physical edge on most of the other lads, and carrying yourself accordingly -- 1.

Mental confidence -- thinking your shots are going to drop, you're going to make a play when needed, and so forth -- probably 2, after Kyle. He's coming to school on the heels of a state championship and MVP at an all-star game, and thinking he's a great player. I don't think Duke's Darwinian practice culture will break him, because he's the most physical player in the program and can always fall back on that. Plus, the competition in the post rotation isn't that strenuous.

Drive -- 1 or 2. Right there with Kyle. He wants to be great. Will be pursuing a PhD, as Bo Ryan likes to say -- poor, hungry and driven.

I guarantee he's going to compete hard for time. At the very least, can we please retire the "project" meme? He's going to be in the mix next year, and Thomas, Zoubek and McClure had better get ready.

Can we put this post somewhere and take a look at it after the season? Because you're either going to look like a genius or an idiot, not much room for in-between with stuff like this...


And don't forget there's stuff like being smart and being in the right position on defense (something McClure is amazing at), versatile defense(something Lance, Kyle and Dave are strong in), and note that the 3 qualities Duke really could use in a big man (post scoring shot blocking and rebounding, are the 3 that you don't strongly endorse him in).

just something to keep in mind. Also keep in mind that lots of guys can look good against High School comp. What happened when Czyz played Babbit, a legit ACC type player?

[CALVET]

With respect to Olek's ability to compete for time in Duke's post rotation next year, here is my best estimate, after seeing him play 12 times, as to how his tools rank compared to the other four players, Singler, Zoubek, Thomas and McClure. With the qualifier that Greg is the only current Duke player I have seen play in person; the others only on TV, which makes the attempt to compare more problematic. OTOH, I haven't seen Olek play on TV, so anyone who saw him today through the camera lens can serve as a check on my take.

Ability to run the floor -- number one.

Leaping -- 1

Strength -- 1. If any of the others can power clean 275 maybe I'll take it back.




Lateral quickness -- 1

Aggressiveness -- 1

Outside shooting -- 2. Behind Kyle, but on the rise with a bullet. He didn't take more than about one three-pointer a game in high school, but reputedly in practice he always goes shot-for-shot in 3-point contests with a teammate of his named Austin Morgan, a junior who is being recruited by Stanford and others after scoring 37 in the state final. Morgan is the best shooter I've seen in high school since another Austin in '67, a fellow by the name of Carr who showed up in ESPN's recent list of the 25 greatest college basketball players.

Passing -- 1. Yes, better than Kyle, based on what I've seen. A very clever passer, both in half court sets and triggering the break. Does tend to hold the ball a bit long waiting for the highlight reel assist, but I love his potential for playing with other good passers.

Rebounding -- I'm not sure, really. I do agree with the poster who said he's not great at getting defensive position for boards, and I don't think he's been well coached on the defensive end under the bucket. Kyle probably gets better position, and Zoubs certainly takes more space. But Czyz is strong, explosive, a great leaper and willing to bang.

Shot blocking -- Not sure here either, since he wasn't allowed by his high school coach to try it near the basket. It does seem like he has the potential to be really good at coming over on help defense and having a go at it.

Low post scoring -- 3 or 4 now. Kyle has polished post moves, and Zoubs is so close to the basket that if you can get it to him there, and he doesn't bring the ball down, chances are he'll score. Lance was starting to convert more baskets down low later in the season. But Olek is the most explosive of them and has the quickest first step. This is where Wojo could really earn his money teaching Olek a few moves he can rely on.

Finishing on the break -- 1. Nobody but Grant and Gerald have been comparable, among Duke players.

Playing Duke's style of interior defense -- potentially 1, once he learns what to do. Really extraordinary at getting in somebody's grill on the perimeter and then beating feet back to the basket to take a charge, block a shot or whatever.

Physical confidence, i.e., knowing deep down inside that you have a physical edge on most of the other lads, and carrying yourself accordingly -- 1.

Mental confidence -- thinking your shots are going to drop, you're going to make a play when needed, and so forth -- probably 2, after Kyle. He's coming to school on the heels of a state championship and MVP at an all-star game, and thinking he's a great player. I don't think Duke's Darwinian practice culture will break him, because he's the most physical player in the program and can always fall back on that. Plus, the competition in the post rotation isn't that strenuous.

Drive -- 1 or 2. Right there with Kyle. He wants to be great. Will be pursuing a PhD, as Bo Ryan likes to say -- poor, hungry and driven.

I guarantee he's going to compete hard for time. At the very least, can we please retire the "project" meme? He's going to be in the mix next year, and Thomas, Zoubek and McClure had better get ready.

Not disputing your observation, as you have first hand info. But how in the world did Olek get destroyed by Luke Babbit during their matchup? I guess I'd probably would've like to have read that he was a better rebounder and shot blocker than outside shot as that is what we need and maybe would've explained his poor showing against his fellow Nevada product.

[dkbaseball]

Not disputing your observation, as you have first hand info. But how in the world did Olek get destroyed by Luke Babbit during their matchup? I guess I'd probably would've like to have read that he was a better rebounder and shot blocker than outside shot as that is what we need and maybe would've explained his poor showing against his fellow Nevada product.

Didn't see the game. Obviously, Olek didn't show up, for whatever reason. The rematch didn't materialize, as Olek's team won by 20 in the state tournament against the team that beat Babbitt's. I've seen Babbitt play twice. He's a nice player, who will probably be a big scorer in college. But I'd much rather have Olek for Duke's post rotation. He's stronger and more athletic.

[dkbaseball]

I respect the fact that you've seen him a bunch of times in high school. But do you realize what people who saw Lance Thomas play in high school were saying? That, plus more. Fact is, Olek wasn't exactly playing in one of the better basketball communities around. I hope he turns out to be as good as you've advertised, but the last thing we need is another player to be burdened by unrealistic expectations.

With the exception of a couple of teams from poor schools that could barely afford to field a team, the competition he faced was roughly on the level of what Grant Hill was playing against in Northern Virginia. I saw Grant play about a dozen times in high school also.

Trust me: Olek doesn't have the sort of personality to be burdened by expectations on a fan website. That's sort of like a journalist-invented story that bears no relation to what's happening in the real world.

I welcome all counterpoints from people who have seen Czyz play.

[dkbaseball]

Can we put this post somewhere and take a look at it after the season? Because you're either going to look like a genius or an idiot, not much room for in-between with stuff like this...

just something to keep in mind. Also keep in mind that lots of guys can look good against High School comp. What happened when Czyz played Babbit, a legit ACC type player?

Oh, I'm long since on record with my views about Czyz, and willing to be called to account. Bear in mind that what I'm trying to evaluate are raw tools, and I think he has an awful lot to work with there.

I believe there were seven ACC signees in the game today. But honestly, I don't think anybody should be evaluated on the basis of one game. I didn't see the Babbitt game, but it's clear the player I watched the rest of the year didn't show up for that one.

[shadowfax336]

Oh, I'm long since on record with my views about Czyz, and willing to be called to account. Bear in mind that what I'm trying to evaluate are raw tools, and I think he has an awful lot to work with there.

I believe there were seven ACC signees in the game today. But honestly, I don't think anybody should be evaluated on the basis of one game. I didn't see the Babbitt game, but it's clear the player I watched the rest of the year didn't show up for that one.

I understand that you're evaluating raw tools, but the point is I think you're assuming that those raw tools will seamlessly transition into the ACC. I'm obviously less informed than you, and you'll note that I didn't question your statement, I'm just saying that its bold to make the statements you've been making. I strongly hope you're right.

[Jumbo]

With the exception of a couple of teams from poor schools that could barely afford to field a team, the competition he faced was roughly on the level of what Grant Hill was playing against in Northern Virginia. I saw Grant play about a dozen times in high school also.

Trust me: Olek doesn't have the sort of personality to be burdened by expectations on a fan website. That's sort of like a journalist-invented story that bears no relation to what's happening in the real world.

I welcome all counterpoints from people who have seen Czyz play.

Northern Virginia has a FAR better range of basketball schools than Reno. It's not even close. And I know you've watced Czyz play, but are you really qualified to comment on his personality? In actuality, it's not Czyz I'm concerned about. It's the people on this message board that will expect Czyz to make major contributions and then label him as a "disappointment" if he doesn't live up to your extremely high billing.

[dkbaseball]

Northern Virginia has a FAR better range of basketball schools than Reno. It's not even close. And I know you've watced Czyz play, but are you really qualified to comment on his personality? In actuality, it's not Czyz I'm concerned about. It's the people on this message board that will expect Czyz to make major contributions and then label him as a "disappointment" if he doesn't live up to your extremely high billing.

Well, in 1990 I can't recall anybody from Northern Virginia who went on to play Div. One besides Grant, though there may have been some (check that, Joey beard was a freshman on Grant's team). His team did almost get beat by a squad with no one over 6-2, featuring Charlie Garner, the former Eagles running back. I've been watching Northern Virginia basketball since 1965. It's probably better than northern Nevada generally, but probably not Las Vegas. In all that time I've never seen a NOVA team as big, as deep or as good as Olek's team.

I've talked with several people who know Olek, including a teammate, and I think I have a bit of a handle on his personality.

As I've said before, and I should think goes without saying, raw potential does not always translate into on court performance. I'm not saying Olek will be a very-good-to-great player at Duke, I'm saying I think he will be, based on what I've seen. If people on this website want to burden themselves with unreasonable expectations that aren't met, then I guess that will just have to be on my conscience.

But I'm really interested to know if anybody who watched today disagrees with my assessment.

[CALVET]

Northern Virginia has a FAR better range of basketball schools than Reno. It's not even close. And I know you've watced Czyz play, but are you really qualified to comment on his personality? In actuality, it's not Czyz I'm concerned about. It's the people on this message board that will expect Czyz to make major contributions and then label him as a "disappointment" if he doesn't live up to your extremely high billing.


Don't take this the wrong way big guy, but we're all adults here and it won't be the first disappointment. This optimism here is a form of venting from this season. A positive one at that.

[RelativeWays]

I'm hoping that Olek can contibute so we will be more versatile down low. I think K should be able to work him with Brian, Lance and Kyle depending on the situation and if we want to go "tall" we can have Gerald at the 2, Kyle at the 3, Olek or Lance at the 4 and Brian at the 5. This will also help Lance and Brian on their assertiveness because I think foul trouble sometimes limits how aggressive they can be. They improved on how many fouls they commited last year so I definitely see improvement next year with another body in the mix.

October needs to hurry up and get here.

[whereinthehellami]

My first impression was that the talent level was way below the McDonalds All-star game. Overall Olek played well and showed the desire to compete while in the game, moreso on offense than defense. In broad terms Olek plays strong and hard, has some talent, but is rough around the edges.

Some positves I saw from last night. Plays physical on both sides of the ball. Olek wants to attack the basket with the ball. Showed deceptive speed with the ball once he made his move to the basket. Has great leaping ability when he has time to collect himself. When near the basket and the ball goes up Olek immediatley finds a man and bodies him up. FTs looked good.

Some negatives I saw from Olek last night. Got really lost on defense a couple of times. Didn't appear to be a quick leaper as he had some rebounds go to the man he had boxed out. Scored on a couple of double-clutch fadeways from ~ 10 feet, that won't work in the ACC. Didn't stay down on defense, I saw him reaching with his hands instead of moving his feet on a few occasions, picked up some quick cheap fouls for no reason.

As far as next year goes, I think Olek is going to have a hard time adjusting to the ACC. I think he'll definately see some time because of his hard nosed style of play and the fact that he is a frontcourt player. But I can see frontcourt players with length and quicker hops giving him alot of problems on both ends of the floor. I can see him picking up alot of ticky-tack fouls with Duke's pressure defense. Olek gives Duke some much needed toughness but it is asking alot for a freshman to figure out how to use that toughness in the ACC on a consistent and effective manner.

[Kishiznit]

Please explain why you believe that we will see "a lot" of a lineup that has two unproven freshmen and no Scheyer or Thomas, both of whom have started for the Blue Devils in the past and can be expected to improve over the summer. A warning - failure to do so may have your post dismissed as irrational exuberance based on the performances of incoming freshmen in all-star games...

I do not recall in my post saying that Scheyer was out of the picture, he will still get minutes. His legs gave out at the end of season and the shots were not falling. The lineup that I listed would be the most athletic and explosive team. I agree with you, it's hard to assess incoming freshmen but from what I've seen from these guys - they can play. As for your "expected to improve" line - didn't we expect the same last summer?

[Troublemaker]

Don't take this the wrong way big guy, but we're all adults here and it won't be the first disappointment. This optimism here is a form of venting from this season. A positive one at that.

True, but we also want to avoid repeatedly banging our heads against the wall. Remember the Zoubek = Gminski talk three years ago?

Being positive about Czyz's contributions next season is great, but it's important to get the counterpoint out there as well. Hopefully, nobody will be puzzled if/when Czyz plays 0 to 5 min/gm next season. More importantly, from a selfish perspective, hopefully nobody will translate that disappointment into rules-violating posts on this board, creating extra work for the moderators via bannings, citations, etc.

[Troublemaker]

I do not recall in my post saying that Scheyer was out of the picture, he will still get minutes. His legs gave out at the end of season and the shots were not falling. The lineup that I listed would be the most athletic and explosive team. I agree with you, it's hard to assess incoming freshmen but from what I've seen from these guys - they can play. As for your "expected to improve" line - didn't we expect the same last summer?

They DID improve. Scheyer made more strides, but LT improved as well. He just wasn't consistent, and there is hope that he'll become consistent as an upperclassman.

Your lineup is probably fine for the 2010 season. Next season, however, expect Ewill and Czyz to play like freshmen.

[Troublemaker]

Here's one article on the Czyz vs Babbitt matchup weeks ago, in case anyone's interested: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/columns/story?columnist=francisco_joel&id=3145263

[Jumbo]

I do not recall in my post saying that Scheyer was out of the picture, he will still get minutes. His legs gave out at the end of season and the shots were not falling. The lineup that I listed would be the most athletic and explosive team. I agree with you, it's hard to assess incoming freshmen but from what I've seen from these guys - they can play. As for your "expected to improve" line - didn't we expect the same last summer?

Scheyer's legs gave out at the end of the season? Are you sure you aren't confusing him with someone else? Because Jon Scheyer, he of the Duke men's basketball team, was team's best player down the stretch. Here are his stats from Duke's last 10 games (when guys like Singler and Nelson faded):
14.7 ppg; 3.1 rpg; 3.1 apg; 1.8 spg; .447 FG%; .400 3FG%; .932 FT%.

Yeah, his legs really "gave out." Throw in the fact that he is an outstanding wing defender, an excellent secondary ball-handler and probably our best passer, and he'll play at least 30-35 minutes in every close game.

[Jumbo]

They DID improve. Scheyer made more strides, but LT improved as well. He just wasn't consistent, and there is hope that he'll become consistent as an upperclassman.

Your lineup is probably fine for the 2010 season. Next season, however, expect Ewill and Czyz to play like freshmen.

Don't forget Gerald, who improved a ton from his frosh to soph year. I can't think of any of last year's four sophomores who didn't improve.

[slower]

Because you're either going to look like a genius or an idiot

Basically, just like 95% of the rest of us, depending on the day, huh? ;)

[sagegrouse]

Next season, however, expect Ewill and Czyz to play like freshmen.

Playing like freshmen is fine with me, as long as the standards of comparison are Kyle Singler, Elton Brand, and Grant Hill.

sagegrouse

[Kishiznit]

Scheyer's legs gave out at the end of the season? Are you sure you aren't confusing him with someone else? Because Jon Scheyer, he of the Duke men's basketball team, was team's best player down the stretch. Here are his stats from Duke's last 10 games (when guys like Singler and Nelson faded):
14.7 ppg; 3.1 rpg; 3.1 apg; 1.8 spg; .447 FG%; .400 3FG%; .932 FT%.

Yeah, his legs really "gave out." Throw in the fact that he is an outstanding wing defender, an excellent secondary ball-handler and probably our best passer, and he'll play at least 30-35 minutes in every close game.

To try and keep this positive, Scheyer was much improved last season and was an excellent secondary ball-handler and an above average wing defender. I'm just saying his legs went out at the end of the season - his post season stats compared to your year totals - 23% 3FG%; 2.7 RPG; 2.5 APG with 1.7:1 assist/turnover ratio compared to yearly total of 2.2:1.

[Troublemaker]

From what I've seen, dkbaseball's glowing assessment of Czyz's potential is dead-on. But I still expect Czyz to be the 10th or 11th man in the rotation next season and receive 0 to 5 minutes a game. It will take time for Czyz to adjust to the much higher level of competition that Duke plays, and it will take time for Czyz to learn Duke's systems on offense and defense. Czyz is an excellent prospect and I love that Duke recruited him, but his production will come in the 09-10 and more likely the 10-11, and 11-12 seasons.

He's only 6'7", which means he's more suited to play the 4 at Duke, which means he'll have to develop much more faceup game and wait for Singler to leave before he has a chance to start. Czyz is also not a natural rebounder; if he develops like I hope, he'll be a 16/6 guy his senior year, not a 16/11 guy. As of now, he's also not a shotblocker. Being neither a ferocious rebounder nor shotblocker, he won't play the 5 spot any better than LT or Z, who have two years of experience and height on him.

That said, Czyz is an incredible athlete. You can't take too much away from an All-Star game, and his U.S. team also had much more talent than the D.C. opponent, which led to a blowout, but Czyz moved at a different speed from the competition. As dkbaseball described, his speed, quickness, and leaping ability are all there in abundance and he has surprisingly good court vision, all of which can hopefully be harnessed in the future. For now, he'll need skillwork and he'll have to adjust to a different level of play and new systems.

[1Devil]

...but LT improved as well. He just wasn't consistent...

I didn't see it. I'm hoping this season was his one step back in order to take two steps forward next year.

[Classof06]

This was my first time seeing Olek and I was very impressed. While this wasn't the McD AA game, a lot of the kids in that game are going to ACC schools and a decent amount of them are expected to contribute right away, so the competition was solid. Olek is rough around the edges but his starting point is a lot higher than I thought.

I think Czyz will and should play solid minutes next year. The first thing that stood out to me was that he's an active body around the rim, something Duke is sorely lacking; by the 2nd half of the WVU game, Duke had no more than one body in the lane for the rebound on any given shot. And even in general, the times Duke got into trouble were when we didn't rebound. If nothing else, Czyz will help on the boards.

The other reason I think Czyz will undoubtedly get solid minutes next year is because he's athletic as all hell. I'd have to imagine he'll be one of the best athletes on the team with Gerald and Marty. You mean to tell me Duke (out of all teams) can't find minutes for an athletic, active frontcourt body? Czyz doesn't solve Duke's frontcourt problems but he's a definite step in the right direction. It's only one game but based on what I saw last night, he certainly gets minutes next season.

I see absolutely no reason why Czyz can't challenge Lance Thomas for his minutes.

[IStillHateJimBain]

Physical. "Rough-around-the-edges." Good leaper. Wore jersey No. 33.
For the old Duke fans, this could have described Kenny Dennard when he came to Durham up the road in King, N.C., in 1978 is the unheralded half of the frontcourt duo with Gene Banks.
Does anyone see some of the same qualities in Olek Czyz? I liked a lot of what I saw from Czyz in the Capital Classic apart of the points and the breakaway slam. I saw him box out a guy after a deep 3-pointer in a game where very little of that was going on. I saw him give up a layup to pass to an open teammate on the break. I saw him take a really hard foul inside, barely react at all and then not just hit both free throws but swish them both in a way that indicates he will be a very good shooter.
The kid reminds me a little of Dennard, who is one of the really underrated players in Duke history and played well in the NBA before his health issues. If Czyz can be close to that good, Duke really has something to look forward to.

[Saratoga2]

To try and keep this positive, Scheyer was much improved last season and was an excellent secondary ball-handler and an above average wing defender. I'm just saying his legs went out at the end of the season - his post season stats compared to your year totals - 23% 3FG%; 2.7 RPG; 2.5 APG with 1.7:1 assist/turnover ratio compared to yearly total of 2.2:1.

Scheyer played very well down the stretch when really Nelson, Thomas and Singler were fading. I can't see any reason whatsoever for saying Jon's legs went out. Jon is a remarkable player and was very consistent down the stretch.

[gw67]

To try and keep this positive, Scheyer was much improved last season and was an excellent secondary ball-handler and an above average wing defender. I'm just saying his legs went out at the end of the season - his post season stats compared to your year totals - 23% 3FG%; 2.7 RPG; 2.5 APG with 1.7:1 assist/turnover ratio compared to yearly total of 2.2:1.

First, Jumbo's post listed the last ten games for Scheyer not a much fewer post-season games. Second, why would one think that a skinny 18 year old freshman who hasn't played aginst college level of competition or played a rigorous college season be a better player than Scheyer and have "fresher" legs late in the season. I appreciate differences of opinion but EWill appears to be this year's flavor of the summer. If EWill and the Polish youngster are better than the current juniors, I'm positive that Coach K will gladly show them the court. Color me skeptical not because these youngsters lack ability but because they are freshmen coming in behind experienced players, including one who was the second or third best player on the team last year.

gw67

[Troublemaker]

I didn't see it. I'm hoping this season was his one step back in order to take two steps forward next year.

Go watch your tape of Duke's win in Chapel Hill; Lance was key. He had a few games like that this season but he did not play that well nearly enough. I'm hoping he becomes more consistent as an upperclassman.

[Troublemaker]

This was my first time seeing Olek and I was very impressed. While this wasn't the McD AA game, a lot of the kids in that game are going to ACC schools and a decent amount of them are expected to contribute right away, so the competition was solid.

The best players on the court were all on his own team. Czyz went to town against a weak opponent, which is still impressive, but if we're going to give weight to one-game samples, Czyz's matchup against Luke Babbitt in a real game carries more weight for me.



I think Czyz will and should play solid minutes next year. The first thing that stood out to me was that he's an active body around the rim, something Duke is sorely lacking; by the 2nd half of the WVU game, Duke had no more than one body in the lane for the rebound on any given shot. And even in general, the times Duke got into trouble were when we didn't rebound. If nothing else, Czyz will help on the boards.

Like I said, Czyz is only 6'7" and not a good rebounder. At least not right away at the ACC level. I really think you're setting yourself up for disappointment, like with a freshman Nolan Smith overtaking Paulus for the starting spot.



The other reason I think Czyz will undoubtedly get solid minutes next year is because he's athletic as all hell. I'd have to imagine he'll be one of the best athletes on the team with Gerald and Marty. You mean to tell me Duke (out of all teams) can't find minutes for an athletic, active frontcourt body? Czyz doesn't solve Duke's frontcourt problems but he's a definite step in the right direction. It's only one game but based on what I saw last night, he certainly gets minutes next season.

I see absolutely no reason why Czyz can't challenge Lance Thomas for his minutes.

And how many minutes does Marty play despite his great athleticism? Being athletic by itself isn't going to be enough for Czyz to get playing time. Even though there is less competition in the post, Czyz is a 4 in Duke's system, which means he'll play behind Singler. And I find it hard to believe that he'll overtake LT or Z at the 5 when he isn't a great rebounder or shotblocker and when he's just a freshman adjusting to many different things being thrown at him.

[Kishiznit]

...If EWill and the Polish youngster are better than the current juniors, I'm positive that Coach K will gladly show them the court.... gw67

I would like to agree with you but Coach K's recent history of not subbing down the stretch leads me to disagree. I'll take a rested Polish youngster and EWill over a winded Thomas and Scheyer any day of the week. Just like I would have taken a rested King and Smith over a winded Singler/Nelson and Paulus this past season. BUT, I'm not in charge of the rotation.

[sagegrouse]

I would like to agree with you but Coach K's recent history of not subbing down the stretch leads me to disagree. I'll take a rested Polish youngster and EWill over a winded Thomas and Scheyer any day of the week. Just like I would have taken a rested King and Smith over a winded Singler/Nelson and Paulus this past season. BUT, I'm not in charge of the rotation.

I suspect Czyz will get on the floor and his minutes will depend on how effective he is in defense and rebounding. I.e., offense will be gravy. But the limiting factor will be his tendency toward fouls. If he incurs one foul for every 2-3 minutes, he won't play much.

sagegrouse

[Duvall]

I would like to agree with you but Coach K's recent history of not subbing down the stretch leads me to disagree. I'll take a rested Polish youngster and EWill over a winded Thomas and Scheyer any day of the week. Just like I would have taken a rested King and Smith over a winded Singler/Nelson and Paulus this past season. BUT, I'm not in charge of the rotation.

I'm not sure how this applies after last season.

[DukeVol]

I would like to agree with you but Coach K's recent history of not subbing down the stretch leads me to disagree. I'll take a rested Polish youngster and EWill over a winded Thomas and Scheyer any day of the week. Just like I would have taken a rested King and Smith over a winded Singler/Nelson and Paulus this past season. BUT, I'm not in charge of the rotation.

I normally don't reply, but this post is crazy!! EWill automatically gets minutes over Scheyer because of what....explosive hops?? People that really know hoops realize how good Scheyer really is; at many of the unheralded aspects of the game. I watch EVERY game and it always amazes me how Scheyer ends up in the right place for a rebound or a loose ball. Watch him on defense; you just don't see him allow dribble penetration. I don't care if people don't think he's athletically "explosive", the dude can flat out play. Plus he has TWO years of solid ACC playing time.

I'm as excited about Williams as the next guy, but c'mon, taking PT from Scheyer AIN'T gonna happen.

[1Devil]

Go watch your tape of Duke's win in Chapel Hill; Lance was key. He had a few games like that this season but he did not play that well nearly enough. I'm hoping he becomes more consistent as an upperclassman.

Yeah, I know. I think he had one other good game too.

[Classof06]

The best players on the court were all on his own team. Czyz went to town against a weak opponent, which is still impressive, but if we're going to give weight to one-game samples, Czyz's matchup against Luke Babbitt in a real game carries more weight for me.



Like I said, Czyz is only 6'7" and not a good rebounder. At least not right away at the ACC level. I really think you're setting yourself up for disappointment, like with a freshman Nolan Smith overtaking Paulus for the starting spot.



And how many minutes does Marty play despite his great athleticism? Being athletic by itself isn't going to be enough for Czyz to get playing time. Even though there is less competition in the post, Czyz is a 4 in Duke's system, which means he'll play behind Singler. And I find it hard to believe that he'll overtake LT or Z at the 5 when he isn't a great rebounder or shotblocker and when he's just a freshman adjusting to many different things being thrown at him.

How many times have you seen Czyz play? He's not a good rebounder? He pulled down 9 boards last night! It's one game but I don't see where you get off saying he's not a good rebounder. That seems awfully ridiculous to me unless you've seen this kid play several times. I'm not calling him Dennis Rodman but to see him last night and then say he's not a good rebounder just doesn't add up.

Setting myself up for disappointment? You mean like the disappointment of Lance Thomas averaging 4 points and 3 rebounds per game, never once getting double-digit rebounds in a game all season? You say I'm setting myself up for disappointment, I say I see a kid who can help a largely disappointing frontcourt.

I don't know why you decided to compare Marty to Olek when Olek plays in the frontcourt and Marty doesn't. Based on that alone, Olek is much more likely to play; if you haven't noticed, we're not exactly deep in the frontcourt and Duke doesn't have the luxury of distinguishing between 4 and 5 until Zoubek can claim that 5 spot. If Czyz has more to offer, then he'll play. You speak of Lance and Zoubek like they're Shelden Williams and Carlos Boozer.

Based on the comments you've made, I fully expect you to reply saying you've seen Olek play multiple times. If not, you're making claims with no basis whatsoever.

[Kishiznit]

I normally don't reply, but this post is crazy!! EWill automatically gets minutes over Scheyer because of what....explosive hops?? People that really know hoops realize how good Scheyer really is; at many of the unheralded aspects of the game. I watch EVERY game and it always amazes me how Scheyer ends up in the right place for a rebound or a loose ball. Watch him on defense; you just don't see him allow dribble penetration. I don't care if people don't think he's athletically "explosive", the dude can flat out play. Plus he has TWO years of solid ACC playing time.

I'm as excited about Williams as the next guy, but c'mon, taking PT from Scheyer AIN'T gonna happen.

My bad for not presenting my point more clear - when you play from the 12 minute mark in the 2nd half on - I take my chance with a player that is rested with talent and in this case Williams, I'm not saying he is better than Scheyer when they are both fresh and 100%, I'm simply saying I would take a rested Williams (100%) over a tired Scheyer (90%). Unfortunately we saw a lot of 90% (meaning stamina) down the stretch. This is not saying the players on the court weren't giving it their all.

[moonpie23]

from my observation, you get minutes from what you show in practices (to begin with) and you have minutes taken away for the same reason. Once you go "live" (game time) it's a combination of what you are really doing and what they have seen in practice that you're CAPABLE of doing...


if he gets minutes, and capitalizes on them, he'll start "stealing min" from somone else that isn't doing as well.

should be interesting.

[Classof06]

Yeah, I know. I think he had one other good game too.

Haha, cosigned.

That other good game was Marquette. That's it, Troublemaker.

[shadowfax336]

I would like to agree with you but Coach K's recent history of not subbing down the stretch leads me to disagree. I'll take a rested Polish youngster and EWill over a winded Thomas and Scheyer any day of the week. Just like I would have taken a rested King and Smith over a winded Singler/Nelson and Paulus this past season. BUT, I'm not in charge of the rotation.

oh good, it wouldn't be the offseason if we weren't criticizing the way K uses his depth...

[Hot Route]

I forgot to DVR the game. Does anyone know if it will be shown again (taped?)

[Jumbo]

To try and keep this positive, Scheyer was much improved last season and was an excellent secondary ball-handler and an above average wing defender. I'm just saying his legs went out at the end of the season - his post season stats compared to your year totals - 23% 3FG%; 2.7 RPG; 2.5 APG with 1.7:1 assist/turnover ratio compared to yearly total of 2.2:1.

I didn't give yearly totals. I gave his last 10 games. You're interested in postseason stats? OK, how about this one: In Duke's four postseason games, he led the team with 14.8 ppg. When you've got dead legs, you should have trouble a) getting into the paint and b) hitting FTs. Scheyer took a ridiculous 32 FTs in those four postseason games and hit 30 of them. That's 93.8%. Yeah, his legs were shot.
The whole team's shooting went south from beyond the arc in the last four games, and at least Scheyer still hit over 40% from the field. Why are you singling him out? Why is a negligible decrease in A/TO ratio (2.2:1 vs. 1.7:1) indicative of tired legs? Why is a very mild drop in assists indicative of tired legs and not other guys just missing shots off his passes? And, even if he had tired legs (which he didn't), why would that mean Elliot Williams would suddenly be playing as much as a guy who is, at worst, Duke's third best player and who has averaged 11.9 ppg and 31 mpg in his first two seasons? Give me a break.

[Hot Route]

I didn't give yearly totals. I gave his last 10 games. You're interested in postseason stats? OK, how about this one: In Duke's four postseason games, he led the team with 14.8 ppg. When you've got dead legs, you should have trouble a) getting into the paint and b) hitting FTs. Scheyer took a ridiculous 32 FTs in those four postseason games and hit 30 of them. That's 93.8%. Yeah, his legs were shot.
The whole team's shooting went south from beyond the arc in the last four games, and at least Scheyer still hit over 40% from the field. Why are you singling him out? Why is a negligible decrease in A/TO ratio (2.2:1 vs. 1.7:1) indicative of tired legs? Why is a very mild drop in assists indicative of tired legs and not other guys just missing shots off his passes? And, even if he had tired legs (which he didn't), why would that mean Elliot Williams would suddenly be playing as much as a guy who is, at worst, Duke's third best player and who has averaged 11.9 ppg and 31 mpg in his first two seasons? Give me a break.

Agreed! Scheyer (even though he's not quick) was our best penetrator by the end of the year. No one else could take the ball to the rack. He has an incredible knack to be where he needs to be. If the game's on the line, I like the ball in his hands.

[Jumbo]

I would like to agree with you but Coach K's recent history of not subbing down the stretch leads me to disagree. I'll take a rested Polish youngster and EWill over a winded Thomas and Scheyer any day of the week. Just like I would have taken a rested King and Smith over a winded Singler/Nelson and Paulus this past season. BUT, I'm not in charge of the rotation.

I'm sorry, K didn't sub this year? Do I need to post more stats to refute this bunk?

[mddukefan]

I was really excited to watch Czyz play last night because the only time i had seem him previously was on his youtube video. I was pelased with what i saw but i realize there is only so much you can take away from an All-Star game. I'm not going to try and predict much from just watching the kid play one time because i know i there is still much i don't know about him or his game.

I've learned over the years that there is only a few things that can translate into real games from an event like last night. I was mainly looking at his height, build, movement, ball-handling and shooting form. Usually when i look at those things it has typically given me somewhat of an idea what players could possibly bring to Duke in the future. There has been a few occasions where i have been fooled on some plays. Josh McRoberts hit a nice three in the McDonalds game on an assist form Paulus a few years ago that i was impressed with, but he never really used that at Duke.

I was happy to see Czyz's athleticism and aggresiveness last night. I liked the fact that he used the ball fake on certain occasions and that he was successful at getting open with it. I know some people seemed to not be impressed by his defensive rebounding or defense, but honestly he seemed to be breaking early a lot last night for dunks (Especially after he missed the one windmill attempt), which is what kids want to do and fans want to see in all star games. I doubt once he gets into Duke's system that will ever happen if he wants to be on the court .

He hit all his free throws so hopefully that was no fluke. I think his aggressiveness could cause him to get to the line a good amount during his career. My favorite play was a missed dunk attempt he had when he took off just unside the free throw line and went up left handed and was fouled. That play really impressed the crowd and his teammates.

I know him getting the MVP should not be read much into, but it was at least nice to see on of our guys get an award. Especially at a Maryland event!


Dkbaseball, i wanted to say i appreciate all the notes you have put up on Czyz throughout the year. I had nothing to go on about him so it was nice to see someone with personal knowledge on his play take the time to post some thoughts. As my girlfriend and i watched last night we were keeping your analysis in mind and notice some of the same things you have mentioned about Czyz. I think he has some skills that will benefit the team, but to what extent is obviously unknown. I'm looking forward to him playing with the current team and learning from the older guys.

GO DUKE!!!

[shadowfax336]

My bad for not presenting my point more clear - when you play from the 12 minute mark in the 2nd half on - I take my chance with a player that is rested with talent and in this case Williams, I'm not saying he is better than Scheyer when they are both fresh and 100%, I'm simply saying I would take a rested Williams (100%) over a tired Scheyer (90%). Unfortunately we saw a lot of 90% (meaning stamina) down the stretch. This is not saying the players on the court weren't giving it their all.

Um so you're saying we should play our best players till we get to the 12 minute mark of the second half? And then should play our bench? I mean I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Are you claiming that Ewill et al. should be the main players out on the floor for the last 12 minutes of the game? Or that they should come in briefly with 12 minutes or so to go in the second half to rest the starters?

[Jumbo]

Haha, cosigned.

That other good game was Marquette. That's it, Troublemaker.

I see. So 10/5 vs. GT wasn't good? 10/3 vs. Miami? Six points, five offensive boards and two steals against BC? Lance had plenty of strong outings last year playing about half the game. He also had plenty of games where he did nothing. He needs to become more consistent, no question. But the level to which you and others criticize him is ridiculous.

[Classof06]

I see. So 10/5 vs. GT wasn't good? 10/3 vs. Miami? Six points, five offensive boards and two steals against BC? Lance had plenty of strong outings last year playing about half the game. He also had plenty of games where he did nothing. He needs to become more consistent, no question. But the level to which you and others criticize him is ridiculous.

OK Jumbo, I'll give you G-Tech. But I was personally at the Miami game and I don't care what the box score says, nobody on Duke played well that game. I'm not here to crticize Lance but your boy Troublemaker is saying that thinking Olek will be a good rebounder is just setting myself up for disappointment. No disrespect to Lance but compared to the stats he put up this year, how much of a disappointment could Olek really be? I've seen nothing to tell me that Czyz can't average 3.3 rebounds per game like Thomas did this year.

This is no personal vendetta against Thomas, it's fact. Look up all my prior posts and see how many times I've said negative things about Thomas; my guess is you won't find any prior to today. I never said Lance played terribly all season long, I'm just saying that he rarely stood out. If you find this statement to be erroneous, then I'd love to hear your reply as to why.

[Kishiznit]

Um so you're saying we should play our best players till we get to the 12 minute mark of the second half? And then should play our bench? I mean I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Are you claiming that Ewill et al. should be the main players out on the floor for the last 12 minutes of the game? Or that they should come in briefly with 12 minutes or so to go in the second half to rest the starters?


I'm saying that there is a difference between how he subs in the 1st half vs. 2nd half. He usually rotates 2 in at a time in the first half and constantly gets people involved. He begins the 2nd half the same way but if you are on the floor with 12 minutes to go, you will finish unless you foul out. To answer your question, have the best players on the floor to finish the game but DO NOT expect them to beat quality teams playing a 12 minute stretch to end the game.

[NM Duke Fan]

This has certainly turned into a very interesting thread!

Like I said earlier, I posted for many years and then took a break. Very interesting how the boards have evolved since the days of James and the Sagarmatha BB system.

One way in which they have changed is the tricky job of being a 'moderator.' It is indeed a difficult job, and I have always enjoyed the writing of Jason Evans over the years. But some of the posts by moderators can be a bit extreme at times including in this thread.

I do not at all agree that is is absurd to posit that Czyz might get 20 minutes of playing time by some point in the season "based on one game." First of all, for that poster perhaps that game just solidified earlier impressions from other reports and even personal knowledge. And when one looks at the competition for minutes inside there are no other inside players on the current roster who come close to the explosiveness, strength and moxie of Czyz.

This past years team overall was skinny! And with Nelson graduating one of the few strong players is gone. As people have said last seasons team didn't intimidate anyone, and I found myself saying, "This team needs a Nate James or two." Look at the Memphis team and how physically mature that team was, Duke looked like a high school team by comparison. Czyz brings a desperately needed physical presence. Both Singler and Thomas are not natural power players, they are small forwards in their builds, and BTW maybe neither of them is 6'8" either! Czyz might be by the time the season begins, he is young.

How many of you have played street ball? And in rough neighborhoods? I lived in both Los Angeles and the DC area and played a great deal, and I am white. There is a physical level to the game in those environments, and a certain intimidation factor which does carry over to the college game. You have to really bring it! A line from the front page article on Czyz spoke volumes: "Some of my teammates came with comments, 'You're my favorite white boy now." There was respect for the explosiveness and assertiveness that Czyz has as a natural power player.

I lived in Poland doing research, it can be a tough environment with all the difficult transitions the country has had to make for decades. There is a certain level of fierce mental toughness and drive that one finds amongst those Poles who want a better life, and Czyz has it: ""I've always had a dream to play basketball across the sea and have an easier life...."

Statements about his rebounding are also very puzzling, as another poster has already mentioned. The ESPN report on him said he is a tenacious rebounder on both ends! And I also am puzzled by statements that as long as Singler is here he won't start, as Singler is the '4'. Says who? Did Coach K say that? Singler is a natural 3 and I for one hope that he can get more playing time in that position more like Grant Hill. He is about the same height but still weighs a bit less and is likely not as strong either.

A prediction: Czyz is going to be one of the those players who is hard to define and put into a box. A question: How many NBA pros of his approximate size can power clean 275 and have around a 40" vertical?
How many played soccer for years with all its emphasis on constantly changing geometry and passing angles?

And his game isn't as one dimensional as some might think, he hits the threes well in practice according to reports, and his coach has talked about his ability to face up and drive to the hoop. He is a good passer. He could end up around 6'8" and 240-245 by the time he completely matures, and yet with the speed and quickness and explosivity required for the 3 in the NBA. In one interview I read Coach K told him he believes that he can play at the professional level and wants to help him get there. I now have some doubts that Thomas has that potential, and Czyz may take minutes quickly as his defense gets polished. From my point of view he is an unusual talent who is progressing faster than some of you might think, and it is stretching it to state that he will significantly contribute by the time of his junior and senior years.

[dkbaseball]

This has certainly turned into a very interesting thread!

Like I said earlier, I posted for many years and then took a break. Very interesting how the boards have evolved since the days of James and the Sagarmatha BB system.

One way in which they have changed is the tricky job of being a 'moderator.' It is indeed a difficult job, and I have always enjoyed the writing of Jason Evans over the years. But some of the posts by moderators can be a bit extreme at times including in this thread.

I do not at all agree that is is absurd to posit that Czyz might get 20 minutes of playing time by some point in the season "based on one game." First of all, for that poster perhaps that game just solidified earlier impressions from other reports and even personal knowledge. And when one looks at the competition for minutes inside there are no other inside players on the current roster who come close to the explosiveness, strength and moxie of Czyz.

This past years team overall was skinny! And with Nelson graduating one of the few strong players is gone. As people have said last seasons team didn't intimidate anyone, and I found myself saying, "This team needs a Nate James or two." Look at the Memphis team and how physically mature that team was, Duke looked like a high school team by comparison. Czyz brings a desperately needed physical presence. Both Singler and Thomas are not natural power players, they are small forwards in their builds, and BTW maybe neither of them is 6'8" either! Czyz might be by the time the season begins, he is young.

How many of you have played street ball? And in rough neighborhoods? I lived in both Los Angeles and the DC area and played a great deal, and I am white. There is a physical level to the game in those environments, and a certain intimidation factor which does carry over to the college game. You have to really bring it! A line from the front page article on Czyz spoke volumes: "Some of my teammates came with comments, 'You're my favorite white boy now." There was respect for the explosiveness and assertiveness that Czyz has as a natural power player.

I lived in Poland doing research, it can be a tough environment with all the difficult transitions the country has had to make for decades. There is a certain level of fierce mental toughness and drive that one finds amongst those Poles who want a better life, and Czyz has it: ""I've always had a dream to play basketball across the sea and have an easier life...."

Statements about his rebounding are also very puzzling, as another poster has already mentioned. The ESPN report on him said he is a tenacious rebounder on both ends! And I also am puzzled by statements that as long as Singler is here he won't start, as Singler is the '4'. Says who? Did Coach K say that? Singler is a natural 3 and I for one hope that he can get more playing time in that position more like Grant Hill. He is about the same height but still weighs a bit less and is likely not as strong either.

A prediction: Czyz is going to be one of the those players who is hard to define and put into a box. A question: How many NBA pros of his approximate size can power clean 275 and have around a 40" vertical?
How many played soccer for years with all its emphasis on constantly changing geometry and passing angles?

And his game isn't as one dimensional as some might think, he hits the threes well in practice according to reports, and his coach has talked about his ability to face up and drive to the hoop. He is a good passer. He could end up around 6'8" and 240-245 by the time he completely matures, and yet with the speed and quickness and explosivity required for the 3 in the NBA. In one interview I read Coach K told him he believes that he can play at the professional level and wants to help him get there. I now have some doubts that Thomas has that potential, and Czyz may take minutes quickly as his defense gets polished. From my point of view he is an unusual talent who is progressing faster than some of you might think, and it is stretching it to state that he will significantly contribute by the time of his junior and senior years.

I just agree 100 percent with this post and your earlier thoughts, after seeing Czyz play all year. I'm afraid people are going to have to come to terms with the fact that Duke may have stumbled upon an underrated recruiting afterthought who has a chance to be a special player. Deal with it. He is as good an athlete as Duke has had, and when have athletes not played at Duke, let alone one who is physically mature as a freshman? And by athlete, I'm including lateral quickness, which makes defense difficult for someone like Marty.

And please, folks, let the Babbitt game go. It was months ago, not weeks. If you'd seen the regional semifinals where Babbitt was completely shut down and didn't get a single offensive board despite being the tallest guy out there, and then seen Olek all over the place in the next game, you'd have no doubts about which player the Duke coaching staff had settled on after evaluating both. Maybe somebody can dredge up a story about the game last summer where Olek is supposed to have dominated Demarcus Cousins, considered a top five big man in the vaunted class of '09, if we're going to focus on one game.

I know venturing outside the territory of recruiting guru rankings is risky business (please note sarcasm), but take a chance and dare to imagine that we've stumbled on a real find.

And BTW, Olek himself expects to start at the five or a power four next year, according to a teammate. He's not going to be stuck behind Kyle, because he's easily the most physical player in the post rotation.

[Troublemaker]

How many times have you seen Czyz play? He's not a good rebounder? He pulled down 9 boards last night! It's one game but I don't see where you get off saying he's not a good rebounder. That seems awfully ridiculous to me unless you've seen this kid play several times. I'm not calling him Dennis Rodman but to see him last night and then say he's not a good rebounder just doesn't add up.

I've only seen him play once. Even last night, he missed at least 3 rebounds that a good ACC rebounder would've grabbed. But since nobody should be judged based on one game, especially a meaningless exhibition -- which is the whole point of my playing devil's advocate here -- you can check his stats. He only averaged 10 rebounds a game in a weak high school league where he is bigger and much more athletic than his opponents. Put, say, Samardo Samuels in Reno and he'd average 20 rebounds/gm. I can't know that for sure, of course, but I do know high school competition is very important in judging players. The weaker the competition, the longer the adjustment period for the player.



Setting myself up for disappointment? You mean like the disappointment of Lance Thomas averaging 4 points and 3 rebounds per game, never once getting double-digit rebounds in a game all season? You say I'm setting myself up for disappointment, I say I see a kid who can help a largely disappointing frontcourt.

Yes, and Lance played against much better high school competition and was more highly rated than Olek coming out of high school, and even he has struggled with ACC competition. I think Czyz can help the frontcourt and I'd agree that he has better physical tools than Lance, but I don't think that will translate right away, as in not his freshman season.



I don't know why you decided to compare Marty to Olek when Olek plays in the frontcourt and Marty doesn't. Based on that alone, Olek is much more likely to play; if you haven't noticed, we're not exactly deep in the frontcourt and Duke doesn't have the luxury of distinguishing between 4 and 5 until Zoubek can claim that 5 spot. If Czyz has more to offer, then he'll play. You speak of Lance and Zoubek like they're Shelden Williams and Carlos Boozer.

Based on the comments you've made, I fully expect you to reply saying you've seen Olek play multiple times. If not, you're making claims with no basis whatsoever.

Everyone in this thread except dkbaseball is judging Olek on one game. I would prefer not to, but I'm playing devil's advocate for the sake of basketball discussion. If you read my post, I already acknowledged Olek's competition for playing time is weaker than Marty's. But ultimately, PT still boils down to how he will fit in. He's not playing ahead of Singler. The question is: what can he bring to the table that will help him overcome LT and Z's experience advantage to play alongside Singler? He's not a great rebounder nor a shotblocker, and I don't think he's a scorer at the ACC level yet. He's athletic but that's not enough. I just think he needs a lot of skill development and that takes time.

I, of course, could be wrong. If you would like, I'll gladly make an avatar/signature bet with you ala Cameron-Jumbo. I think Czyz will play fewer minutes per game than both LT and Z. Do you want to take the other side?

[dkbaseball]

. He only averaged 10 rebounds a game in a weak high school league where he is bigger and much more athletic than his opponents.

He also averaged playing no more than 20 minutes a game, as he was on a very deep team that blew out most of its opponents. He hit his average of 10 in around 25 minutes in the state finals against an extremely athletic Las Vegas team that ran him up and down the floor at a breakneck pace.

I hope nothing I said makes you think he won't be a very good rebounder, low post scorer and shot blocker for Duke. He needs some coaching in these areas, but I would expect him to pick things up very quickly.

And of course, once we get out of the half court discussion and into the open floor game -- assuming Duke is still interested in running a little -- well then, there's just no comparison between Czyz and his competition for playing time.

[dyedwab]

I just agree 100 percent with this post and your earlier thoughts, after seeing Czyz play all year. I'm afraid people are going to have to come to terms with the fact that Duke may have stumbled upon an underrated recruiting afterthought who has a chance to be a special player. Deal with it. He is as good an athlete as Duke has had, and when have athletes not played at Duke, let alone one who is physically mature as a freshman? And by athlete, I'm including lateral quickness, which makes defense difficult for someone like Marty.

And please, folks, let the Babbitt game go. It was months ago, not weeks. If you'd seen the regional semifinals where Babbitt was completely shut down and didn't get a single offensive board despite being the tallest guy out there, and then seen Olek all over the place in the next game, you'd have no doubts about which player the Duke coaching staff had settled on after evaluating both. Maybe somebody can dredge up a story about the game last summer where Olek is supposed to have dominated Demarcus Cousins, considered a top five big man in the vaunted class of '09, if we're going to focus on one game.

I know venturing outside the territory of recruiting guru rankings is risky business (please note sarcasm), but take a chance and dare to imagine that we've stumbled on a real find.

And BTW, Olek himself expects to start at the five or a power four next year, according to a teammate. He's not going to be stuck behind Kyle, because he's easily the most physical player in the post rotation.

I like hearing all this optimism about Olek. It would be great if he came in and contributed a good physical 20+ game, pushes LT and Zoubek in practice. I love Olek's confidence and it really would be great if we had unearthed an under the radar recruit....we haven't done that in a while.

But, can we take a step back and not put too much pressure on the guy? He will be a freshman on a team that lose only one of its top 9 players, granted at a position that is less deep. I wish we could enjoy his potential development and not be disappointed if he doesn't meet some artificial expectations placed on him. I'm really excited about what I hear....I just want to see what he does when he gets to Durham

[Classof06]

I've only seen him play once. Even last night, he missed at least 3 rebounds that a good ACC rebounder would've grabbed. But since nobody should be judged based on one game, especially a meaningless exhibition -- which is the whole point of my playing devil's advocate here -- you can check his stats. He only averaged 10 rebounds a game in a weak high school league where he is bigger and much more athletic than his opponents. Put, say, Samardo Samuels in Reno and he'd average 20 rebounds/gm. I can't know that for sure, of course, but I do know high school competition is very important in judging players. The weaker the competition, the longer the adjustment period for the player.



Yes, and Lance played against much better high school competition and was more highly rated than Olek coming out of high school, and even he has struggled with ACC competition. I think Czyz can help the frontcourt and I'd agree that he has better physical tools than Lance, but I don't think that will translate right away, as in not his freshman season.



Everyone in this thread except dkbaseball is judging Olek on one game. I would prefer not to, but I'm playing devil's advocate for the sake of basketball discussion. If you read my post, I already acknowledged Olek's competition for playing time is weaker than Marty's. But ultimately, PT still boils down to how he will fit in. He's not playing ahead of Singler. The question is: what can he bring to the table that will help him overcome LT and Z's experience advantage to play alongside Singler? He's not a great rebounder nor a shotblocker, and I don't think he's a scorer at the ACC level yet. He's athletic but that's not enough. I just think he needs a lot of skill development and that takes time.

I, of course, could be wrong. If you would like, I'll gladly make an avatar/signature bet with you ala Cameron-Jumbo. I think Czyz will play fewer minutes per game than both LT and Z. Do you want to take the other side?

Oh, he may very well play less minutes than Lance and Z but I still think he's going to play; this team needs as many active frontcourt bodies as possible. The impression I got from your posts is that it's an exercise in futility to expect any production from him next season; I'd have to disagree with that. I won't sit here and guarantee minutes in April but I'm willing to bet that Olek will be part of Duke's regular rotation, especially if Lance continues to exhibit problems with foul trouble.

We won't know what's up until the preseason but I saw nothing last night to make me believe that Lance is that much better than Czyz. That is not the same as saying Czyz is a stud or Czyz is going to start or Czyz will solve all of our frontcourt problems. It's based on the fact that Lance Thomas started 28 of 32 games yet only averaged 18.5 mpg on a team that would've killed in the street for production from his position; it's based on the fact that Thomas never once recorded double-digit rebounds all season; it's based on the fact that Thomas averaged 4.3 points and 3.3 rebounds per game. With all due respect to Lance, Olek's not exactly coming into a situation where he's behind an All-American and he doesn't exactly have to be Shaquille O'Neal in practice to prove he's worthy of minutes.

[Cormac]

I haven't read all of the posts here, so forgive me if this has been discussed. I have not seen Czyz play, only some youtube highlights, so I will not try to extrapolate what kind of player he will be from such a small sample size. But, one thing I haven't seen mentioned, although it might have been, is the help he can give in practice. I know people have questioned his defensive techniques right now, but that can be fixed with coaching. All it takes is some desire from the player. Look at Stanley Burrell from Xavier and what he did. Sorry, I digress. The point is, at the very least, Olek appears that he can help Duke's other bigs in practice. I know he's not a tree, but supposedly he's very physical and fairly athletic. He may not steal big minutes his freshman year (or maybe he will, who knows for sure), but I would expect him to help the development of Lance, Zoubs, and Singler in the post. It sounds like he's stronger and a better leaper than all of them, so that can only help them on both ends of the floor. Just because he's not getting 20 mins/game his freshman year does NOT mean he's not contributing to the team in a big way. It does not mean he's a bust or anything. And who knows, he may even eventually get those kinds of minutes by the end of the year or later in his career. I don't think with his athleticism he could be kept off of the floor forever, just needs some refinement from what I gather. Just my 2 cents. Thoughts?

[SMO]

I haven't read all of the posts here, so forgive me if this has been discussed. I have not seen Czyz play, only some youtube highlights, so I will not try to extrapolate what kind of player he will be from such a small sample size. But, one thing I haven't seen mentioned, although it might have been, is the help he can give in practice. I know people have questioned his defensive techniques right now, but that can be fixed with coaching. All it takes is some desire from the player. Look at Stanley Burrell from Xavier and what he did. Sorry, I digress. The point is, at the very least, Olek appears that he can help Duke's other bigs in practice. I know he's not a tree, but supposedly he's very physical and fairly athletic. He may not steal big minutes his freshman year (or maybe he will, who knows for sure), but I would expect him to help the development of Lance, Zoubs, and Singler in the post. It sounds like he's stronger and a better leaper than all of them, so that can only help them on both ends of the floor. Just because he's not getting 20 mins/game his freshman year does NOT mean he's not contributing to the team in a big way. It does not mean he's a bust or anything. And who knows, he may even eventually get those kinds of minutes by the end of the year or later in his career. I don't think with his athleticism he could be kept off of the floor forever, just needs some refinement from what I gather. Just my 2 cents. Thoughts?

Practice? We're talkin' 'bout practice?

All silliness aside, you make a good point. An added banger in practice could help toughen guys up.

[Kishiznit]

Do our bigs get much help in practice from Wojo and/or Collins?

[unexpected]

yes. Wojo is the big-man coach. As one of his job responsibilities, I think he helps out the bigs during practice.

[Kishiznit]

I think that's our problem.

[DBFAN]

I'm sure my question got lost in the middle of this discussion, but can anyone show a pronunciation key on how to pronounce his last name?

[Kishiznit]

They were announcing it yesterday with one syllable - shiz or chiz

[unexpected]

your personal feelings aside, can you come up with any hard evidence that wojo is a bad big-man coach? Something that might contradict Boozer, Shelden, Deng, McRoberts lineage that says otherwise?

[Kishiznit]

your personal feelings aside, can you come up with any hard evidence that wojo is a bad big-man coach? Something that might contradict Boozer, Shelden, Deng, McRoberts lineage that says otherwise?

As Deng was more of a slasher and wing at Duke (not really the point), I simply look at a player's progression. McRoberts really was no better offensively in his two years (but he was a little more aggressive on the boards)...our big guys recently are going to leave with the same ability and fundamentals they came to campus with. Call it the style of play or whatever, it would be nice to see Zoubek develop into the type of player that Zwikker was his senior year.

[Duvall]

As Deng was more of a slasher and wing at Duke (not really the point), I simply look at a player's progression. McRoberts really was no better offensively in his two years (but he was a little more aggressive on the boards)...

And he was *much* better defensively.


our big guys recently are going to leave with the same ability and fundamentals they came to campus with.

How do you know this?


Call it the style of play or whatever, it would be nice to see Zoubek develop into the type of player that Zwikker was his senior year.

Which we wouldn't see for another two years.

[greybeard]

This has certainly turned into a very interesting thread!

How many played soccer for years with all its emphasis on constantly changing geometry and passing angles?

Just goes to show that if you live long enough . . . . ;)

[Indoor66]

Just goes to show that if you live long enough . . . . ;)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the joy of confirmation.... :D

[Jaymf7]

I simply look at a player's progression.

That is not a bad measure of a coach's ability, but I think you've forgotten to apply your rule to any facts. McRoberts is a tough case because he relied almost entirely on athleticism in high school, then had two dramatically different roles during his two years at Duke (going from a pure supporting player to 2 All-Americans to the supposed go-to guy). I'm sure he improved in a number of areas (his numbers certainly did), but it is hard to really attribute that to true development (as opposed to the different role).

The other "recent" posts are MUCH clearer cases. I recall being worried about our future when Boozer came in to replace Brand. After his 3rd year (and a championship), those doubts were ancient history. He is now one of the very top PFs in the NBA. While you could argue that he continued to develop after he was drafted, the guy did very well at Duke and upon joining the league. He made a substantial "progression."

Shelden is an even clearer case. He could not pivot as a frosh. He had some defensive skill, but he was incredibly raw. I for one would have NEVER suspected that he would have his number retired after his first year. Again, I was shocked that he was the choice to replace a departing stud in Boozer. No one can reasonably contend that Shel did not make enormous "progress" at Duke.

[Kishiznit]

That is not a bad measure of a coach's ability, but I think you've forgotten to apply your rule to any facts. McRoberts is a tough case because he relied almost entirely on athleticism in high school, then had two dramatically different roles during his two years at Duke (going from a pure supporting player to 2 All-Americans to the supposed go-to guy). I'm sure he improved in a number of areas (his numbers certainly did), but it is hard to really attribute that to true development (as opposed to the different role).

The other "recent" posts are MUCH clearer cases. I recall being worried about our future when Boozer came in to replace Brand. After his 3rd year (and a championship), those doubts were ancient history. He is now one of the very top PFs in the NBA. While you could argue that he continued to develop after he was drafted, the guy did very well at Duke and upon joining the league. He made a substantial "progression."

Shelden is an even clearer case. He could not pivot as a frosh. He had some defensive skill, but he was incredibly raw. I for one would have NEVER suspected that he would have his number retired after his first year. Again, I was shocked that he was the choice to replace a departing stud in Boozer. No one can reasonably contend that Shel did not make enormous "progress" at Duke.

I agree with you on your Shelden analysis and as I was concerned about a replacement for Brand and hoping that Boozer could come in and be THE man....he was just that when he first came on campus.

[MChambers]

Just goes to show that if you live long enough . . . . ;)

Maybe someone else will advocate yoga. . .

[dukediv2013]

Olek Czyz will be a great asset to the Duke team next year. He will play with intensity and hopefully produce on a team that needs a hard-nosed, hard-working little-big man! I think many people base all of their assumptions on the Rankings from Scout or Rivals, where Olek is a 4-star recruit, but do you remember guys like Casey Sanders and Chris Burgess who were 5 stars that never really developed. Or even better... do you remember guys like Josh Howard, ACC Player of the Year at Wake Forest, who wasn't even a four star and ended up being the best player in a league that included people like Chris Duhon, Julius Hodge, and Ray Felton?

Let's all hope for the best, but not make huge expectations! Let's also not make assumptions that a player is going to be a bench warmer when they haven't even laced up their Nikes!

GO DUKE! GO CZYZ! GO EWILL! 9F!

[CALVET]

The best players on the court were all on his own team. Czyz went to town against a weak opponent, which is still impressive, but if we're going to give weight to one-game samples, Czyz's matchup against Luke Babbitt in a real game carries more weight for me.



Like I said, Czyz is only 6'7" and not a good rebounder. At least not right away at the ACC level. I really think you're setting yourself up for disappointment, like with a freshman Nolan Smith overtaking Paulus for the starting spot.



And how many minutes does Marty play despite his great athleticism? Being athletic by itself isn't going to be enough for Czyz to get playing time. Even though there is less competition in the post, Czyz is a 4 in Duke's system, which means he'll play behind Singler. And I find it hard to believe that he'll overtake LT or Z at the 5 when he isn't a great rebounder or shotblocker and when he's just a freshman adjusting to many different things being thrown at him.


Are you sure he's only 6'7"? I've seen several sites that have listed him as 6'8" and I don't think he's turned 18 yet. The comparison to Marty isn't fair because Olek appears to have better lateral movement, much more strength and weight, and definitely appears more aggressive. There's probably gonna be an avatar bet here somewhere, all in good fun.

[geraldsneighbor]

Kyle can play the 3 if we have to at times. Also, look at Pitt this year. Blair is only 6'7'' and played as a 5 all season. He also was ranked in the 80s I believe on rivals.com. If Czyz can rebound and score a bit, he will play. Don't worry.

[Jumbo]

OK, we've all argued back and forth (largely for the sake of arguing). Let's see if we can agree on some things.
*None of us has really seen Olek Czyz yet. Dkbaseball comes the closest, but those were high school games. College is a different story. So we'd be wise not to make too many lock-solid declarations.
*Twenty minutes per game is a lot of time for anyone, let alone a freshman. Consider that neither Thomas nor Zoubek has cracked that mark yet. Then consider that Duke will have Singler playing 30-35 minutes in close games, leaving only about 45-50 minutes available for the other frontcourt players. Duke has invested a lot in Zoubek, Thomas and McClure, and they aren't going to disappear.
*If Olek Czyz somehow finds a way to average 20 mpg, that would be really, really good for Duke. It would mean he's a stud. So, there's no one who hopes he doesn't reach that mark.
*Playing college basketball is hard. Tons of kids come in with all sorts of incredible physical tools. Learning to handle the pressure, Coach K's hard-core practices, the perfection Duke expects, a complicated defensive system based on communication, etc. PLUS all the off-court commitments is a challenge for anyone.
*For those who are skeptical about Czyz's impact, there's certainly room for someone to compete for minutes. The kid has a chance to do something.
*For those raving over Czyz, remember what Nick Horvath looked like every summer. Remember what we all thought Lance would do immediately. It's great to be enthusiastic, but try to temper the expectations.
*If Czyz doesn't get much playing time, please, please, please don't go nuts about it because he looked good in an all-star game. Give him and the coaches a break and let him work into the system for a year.
*I think the motto here should be "tempered expectations but high hopes."
Does that work for everyone?

[Regenman]

Let's just hope for the best. Every 4 or 5 that's come through in the last 3-4 years has been anointed a savior of sorts. I just want some quality minutes to give Singler and Thomas a blow. Anything else is gravy.

[DukieBoy]

Idk if anyone gets Slam magazine but Czyz got a small article in the magazine. Nothing big, but it's still impressive.

[RelativeWays]

We do know that Olek doesn't need to be our savior, just a solid contributor. At 28-6, Duke has room to improve but its hardly in need of a savior.

[sagegrouse]

OK, we've all argued back and forth (largely for the sake of arguing). Let's see if we can agree on some things.
*None of us has really seen Olek Czyz yet.

*Twenty minutes per game is a lot of time for anyone, let alone a freshman.

*Playing college basketball is hard.

*For those who are skeptical about Czyz's impact, there's certainly room for someone to compete for minutes.

*For those raving over Czyz, remember what Nick Horvath looked like every summer.

*If Czyz doesn't get much playing time, please, please, please don't go nuts about it because he looked good in an all-star game. Give him and the coaches a break and let him work into the system for a year.

*I think the motto here should be "tempered expectations but high hopes."

Does that work for everyone?

Jumbo--

You are a heroic individual on the order of Sisyphus. You are pushing the rock of human nature (Duke fan version) up the hill only to see it roll down again.

True spring is after the games are over. Every Duke fan views each incoming freshman as a potential reincarnation of Christian, Elton, Grant, Bobby or JJ. This is a truism on the order of "birds flying north in April and May." Or "hope springs eternal etc. etc."

Every November the birds and hopes fly south. The curses begin: "The rotation isn't deep enough." "Player X can't improve unless he gets minutes." "We need a big man coach." Yadda, yadda....

Jumbo, in the role of Sisyphus, why are you trying to mess with human nature? Your excellent analysis will do no good whatsoever. We fans will have exactly the same thoughts (in some cases, while agreeing with you).

sagegrouse

[BD80]

Jumbo--

You are a heroic individual on the order of Sisyphus.

Heh, heh, heh

Sage Grouse called Jumbo a Sissyphus.



Does that make Jumbo more wise than Zeus, or is DBR a modern Tartarus?

[Indoor66]

Heh, heh, heh

Sage Grouse called Jumbo a Sissyphus.



Does that make Jumbo more wise than Zeus, or is DBR a modern Tartarus?

...or maybe just another Mad Monk? :)

[dkbaseball]

*None of us has really seen Olek Czyz yet. Dkbaseball comes the closest, but those were high school games. College is a different story.

Guess I didn't really see Grant Hill play in high school more than a dozen times either, since he overmatched his competition every game. But I had a pretty good idea of what he was going to do at Duke. I've watched high school basketball for over 40 years in nine different states, including some big time programs such as DeMatha. It's really not that hard to properly discount the level of competition.

I've seen 10 Duke signees play in high school, including four who became pretty accomplished players at Duke -- Grant, Ferry, Duhon and Wojo. Of those 10, only Grant got me as excited as Olek (Danny looked soft, wouldn't go anywhere near a rebound, though his ball skills were evident). With all due respect to Nick Horvath, if I'd ever confused him with a stud athlete it would be time to find a new enthusiasm other than sports. It's really about a lot more than whether the ball happens to be going in the hole. It's about little things like lateral quickness, explosiveness, aggressiveness, hands, etc. I didn't see Lance play in high school, and I'm not at all down on him, but on TV I see a slender forward who struggles trying to be a power player.

No doubt Olek will find challenges aplenty -- athletic, academic and otherwise -- at Duke, and all would be prudent to submit to the Jumbo regime of tempered expectations. But I for one am going to get excited about Olek. Because I think I've really seen him, and he's a stud.

[BD80]

But I for one am going to get excited about Olek. Because I think I've really seen him, and he's a stud.

Well Jumbo, back to the boulder! Does this make you Czyzyphus?

Sorry.


Actually, if Czyz can provide a significant addition to our inside presence, which should improve from healthier, older and more experienced versions of Zoubek and Thomas, and we consider healthy and more experienced versions of Henderson and Smith, more mature and stronger versions of Singler and Scheyer, the return of a much more experienced and healthy version of Pocius, the addition of one of the most explosive freshmen in the nation in Email, and the senior leadership of Paulus and McClure, hmmm, I feel like I'm GGLC ...

WE'RE GOING TO THE FINAL FOUR!!!

Sorry Jumbo, consider that a hope and not an expectation. :)

[greybeard]

I'd also consider Zoubek's return a hope rather than an expectation. My hope for him is that his foot heals for real, and that he can use it in a full range of normal activities during the rest of his life. Hopefully, that will include playing basketball for Duke, next year even. I have no expectation on that score one way or the other.

[Cali-Duke]

here are some highlights from the capital classic game

kinda bad quality, but it'll do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKaJlXu7mrc

[shadowfax336]

here are some highlights from the capital classic game

kinda bad quality, but it'll do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKaJlXu7mrc

Well I thhink we've officiall established that Czyz can dunk...

[FireOgilvie]

Well I thhink we've officiall established that Czyz can dunk...

I want to see a Henderson/Czyz dunk competition... I think it would be close.

[oldnavy]

this kid seems to have the "it" factor. Not sure what "it" is. Possibly the aggressiveness when he attacks the rim, or the look in his eye, just something seems special about him... Time and some ACC competition will tell.

[Ignatius07]

I want to see a Henderson/Czyz dunk competition... I think it would be close.

I don't think it would be close. I think some people perhaps are forgetting Henderson's pre-injury dunking ability. After he injured his wrist, he really did tone down his dunks. Czyz is certainly very athletic, but Henderson is just on another planet.

[dkbaseball]

this kid seems to have the "it" factor. Not sure what "it" is. Possibly the aggressiveness when he attacks the rim, or the look in his eye, just something seems special about him... Time and some ACC competition will tell.

For as good a stab as you'll find at what it is -- assuming it exists -- scroll back to the two posts in this thread by NM Duke Fan. I certainly thought I saw it early on in watching Czyz. It's just really unusual to find that combination of football (American-style) explosiveness, aggressiveness, and physical confidence, with good basketball skills and a 40 inch vertical. And maybe a little rest-of-the-world-style football skills as well.

[oldnavy]

For as good a stab as you'll find at what it is -- assuming it exists -- scroll back to the two posts in this thread by NM Duke Fan. I certainly thought I saw it early on in watching Czyz. It's just really unusual to find that combination of football (American-style) explosiveness, aggressiveness, and physical confidence, with good basketball skills and a 40 inch vertical. And maybe a little rest-of-the-world-style football skills as well.

Thanks, I had not read that. He could be the biggest flop ever, but I just have a hunch... I did read a comment in this tread about how going against the recruiting raters is risky business (meant to be sarcastic). Try telling that to Bob McKillop! I think he found a pretty good, under the radar recruit in Curry wouldn't you say?

[Classof06]

Thanks, I had not read that. He could be the biggest flop ever, but I just have a hunch... I did read a comment in this tread about how going against the recruiting raters is risky business (meant to be sarcastic). Try telling that to Bob McKillop! I think he found a pretty good, under the radar recruit in Curry wouldn't you say?

While I realize nobody was knocking down Olek's door for the McD's AA game, this kid was recruited by Florida and Louisville. Those are pretty good programs with extremely successful coaches.

I think the fact that Krzyzewski, Donovan and Pitino all saw something in this kid just reinforces the notion that he seems to have something about him.

[kydevil]

While I realize nobody was knocking down Olek's door for the McD's AA game, this kid was recruited by Florida and Louisville. Those are pretty good programs with extremely successful coaches.

I think the fact that Krzyzewski, Donovan and Pitino all saw something in this kid just reinforces the notion that he seems to have something about him.

I agree with that, I think you can tell a lot about a kid by what coaches are interested. To have K, Donovan, and Pitino all recruit you says something.

[sagegrouse]

I want to see a Henderson/Czyz dunk competition... I think it would be close.

My own preference is for the NCAA to award only one point for a dunk. I guarantee it will have a salutary effect on the long-term preparation of players for college (and NBA) hoops.

[Sorry to interrupt the train of thought here.]

sagegrouse

[dkbaseball]

While I realize nobody was knocking down Olek's door for the McD's AA game, this kid was recruited by Florida and Louisville. Those are pretty good programs with extremely successful coaches.

I think the fact that Krzyzewski, Donovan and Pitino all saw something in this kid just reinforces the notion that he seems to have something about him.

Bill Self, Billy Gillispie and Tony Bennett were after him also. Kentucky considered him a really crucial get.

[VaDukie]

While I realize nobody was knocking down Olek's door for the McD's AA game, this kid was recruited by Florida and Louisville. Those are pretty good programs with extremely successful coaches.

I think the fact that Krzyzewski, Donovan and Pitino all saw something in this kid just reinforces the notion that he seems to have something about him.

Hear Hear. Whenever someone questions Olek's ranking I just point to the 6 national titles between the coaches in his final 3.

[roywhite]

Hear Hear. Whenever someone questions Olek's ranking I just point to the 6 national titles between the coaches in his final 3.

Good point, and a good illustration of the schizoid view of "the rankings". On one hand, we complain about several of our highly rated McD A-A players not panning out. Now we get a lower ranked, but potentially very helpful recruit, and folks are worried about hs low ranking.

Guru recruit rankings mean something, but not nearly everything.

[Indoor66]

My own preference is for the NCAA to award only one point for a dunk. I guarantee it will have a salutary effect on the long-term preparation of players for college (and NBA) hoops.

[Sorry to interrupt the train of thought here.]

sagegrouse

I completely agree. Fundamentals, not dunking.

[VaDukie]

I know this has been discussed before, but I can't imagine basketball without the dunk. I also have serious doubts that there are moments when a dunk isn't necessary. Do you really think guys can go into the lane and finish against bigger, stronger players by laying it in?

*Case in Point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOisVIE5NR8

[NM Duke Fan]

Regarding Czyz and having 'it,' bear with me while I bring up some reflections from my international travels and also my observations from another sport, one which isn't so well known in the US.

I earned a Master's from the Monterey Institute of International Studies and have travelled quite a bit around the world. And for decades I've been fascinated by the various cultures and genetic inheritences of nations and have noted that Eastern Europe has produced some very unusual athletes from time to time. Travelling and living in that region one can encounter people with some very impressive natural athletic talents.

Many years ago I was watching the World's Strongest Man competition on television in the US, and it was the first time that Mariusz Pudzianowski had competed and he had surprised the announcers by making it to the final, where he came in 4th his first try. When I saw him I strongly sensed that this WSM competition, which had been dominated by Scandinavians for awhile, was about to see some major shifts. For I thought I saw that Mariusz had a very unusual combination of explosiveness, speed, strength, coordination and fierce confidence and competitiveness, he had the total package, he had 'it.' I've always thought that his playing rugby and his training as both a boxer and in karate also helped him have an edge as well. Sure enough, he has gone on to win 4 titles and will try for an unprecedented 5th this year.

And when another Pole known more for his superb performances in the Highland Games, Sebastian Wenta, came onto the WSM scene last year he also exhibited many unusual explosive qualities right away, and set 3 new records at last years competition, and came in 2nd place. Another example of this was when Vasyl Virastiuk from Ukraine exploded onto the scene years ago.

In terms of explosiveness, even to this day the only sub 100 meter dash by a white sprinter was ages ago by the Pole Marian Woronin which was at 9.992 but rounded up to 10 even.

It looks to me like Czyz is one of these unusual athletes, and he also has already developed some real basketball skill, he is no project. There are no guarantees about anything of course, players have to keep up their grades, and this might be an area for improvement, one factor reportedly being that he likes to have a good time. But with his natural abilites and how rapidly he is already progressing I am optimistic that he does have 'it.' And he trusts Coach K to bring out 'it' to the best possible level and help him to strengthen his weak areas. At the very least it looks like a great match of current team needs with a player's natural assets -- combined with trust in the coaching process. There must be realism that each freshman has his own ups and downs in the adjustment process to school, classes, girls, balancing all the demands on time, the demands of the college game, defense, communication, etc. But I do think that there is room for tempered optimism and hope that next years team has more than one potential impact player on the way. :)

[MChambers]

My own preference is for the NCAA to award only one point for a dunk. I guarantee it will have a salutary effect on the long-term preparation of players for college (and NBA) hoops.

[Sorry to interrupt the train of thought here.]

sagegrouse

I still favor the Abe Lemons solution of cutting a hole in the floor.

[MChambers]

Maybe he will solve our big man issues:

This article describes him as "the 6-foot-9 towering center"

http://www.albanyherald.com/archives/Sports/2008/sports041508e.html

;)

[dkbaseball]

Regarding Czyz and having 'it,' bear with me while I bring up some reflections from my international travels and also my observations from another sport, one which isn't so well known in the US.

I earned a Master's from the Monterey Institute of International Studies and have travelled quite a bit around the world. And for decades I've been fascinated by the various cultures and genetic inheritences of nations and have noted that Eastern Europe has produced some very unusual athletes from time to time. Travelling and living in that region one can encounter people with some very impressive natural athletic talents.

Many years ago I was watching the World's Strongest Man competition on television in the US, and it was the first time that Mariusz Pudzianowski had competed and he had surprised the announcers by making it to the final, where he came in 4th his first try. When I saw him I strongly sensed that this WSM competition, which had been dominated by Scandinavians for awhile, was about to see some major shifts. For I thought I saw that Mariusz had a very unusual combination of explosiveness, speed, strength, coordination and fierce confidence and competitiveness, he had the total package, he had 'it.' I've always thought that his playing rugby and his training as both a boxer and in karate also helped him have an edge as well. Sure enough, he has gone on to win 4 titles and will try for an unprecedented 5th this year.

And when another Pole known more for his superb performances in the Highland Games, Sebastian Wenta, came onto the WSM scene last year he also exhibited many unusual explosive qualities right away, and set 3 new records at last years competition, and came in 2nd place. Another example of this was when Vasyl Virastiuk from Ukraine exploded onto the scene years ago.

In terms of explosiveness, even to this day the only sub 100 meter dash by a white sprinter was ages ago by the Pole Marian Woronin which was at 9.992 but rounded up to 10 even.

It looks to me like Czyz is one of these unusual athletes, and he also has already developed some real basketball skill, he is no project. There are no guarantees about anything of course, players have to keep up their grades, and this might be an area for improvement, one factor reportedly being that he likes to have a good time. But with his natural abilites and how rapidly he is already progressing I am optimistic that he does have 'it.' And he trusts Coach K to bring out 'it' to the best possible level and help him to strengthen his weak areas. At the very least it looks like a great match of current team needs with a player's natural assets -- combined with trust in the coaching process. There must be realism that each freshman has his own ups and downs in the adjustment process to school, classes, girls, balancing all the demands on time, the demands of the college game, defense, communication, etc. But I do think that there is room for tempered optimism and hope that next years team has more than one potential impact player on the way. :)

Fascinating perspective. Thanks for passing it along. If some posters here don't put too much stock in these different aspects of physicality, K certainly does. He's been talking all year to Kyle about developing "a strong look," and he's always focusing on body language. Olek speaks a different body language than most basketball players, and K will love it.

[oldnavy]

Fascinating perspective. Thanks for passing it along. If some posters here don't put too much stock in these different aspects of physicality, K certainly does. He's been talking all year to Kyle about developing "a strong look," and he's always focusing on body language. Olek speaks a different body language than most basketball players, and K will love it.



Olek has that body language that not so subtly says, "stop me if you can"... and man does he get up... Stop some of those video shots (freeze) and see that his head is at the rim... I for one can't wait to see him in person! I think he is going to be special!

[moonpie23]

Do you really think guys can go into the lane and finish against bigger, stronger players by laying it in?
]

tony parker

[Ignatius07]

tony parker

Stephen Curry!

[slower]

Teen Wolf

[wumhenry]

The buzz in this thread has been mostly about strength, speed, and hops, but in one or more of the clips that have been linked here, the guy made some deft fast-break passes. I'd like to know whether any of our more sapient correspondents sees evidence of noteworthy Olekian passing skill in the videos.

[CDu]

The buzz in this thread has been mostly about strength, speed, and hops, but in one or more of the clips that have been linked here, the guy made some deft fast-break passes. I'd like to know whether any of our more sapient correspondents sees evidence of noteworthy Olekian passing skill in the videos.

I don't remember any fast break passes in the video clip I saw. I remember what I thought to be another white guy (a guard) making some nice passes. But the only highlights I remember from Czyz were the "360" dunk and the windmill dunk.

[dkbaseball]

The buzz in this thread has been mostly about strength, speed, and hops, but in one or more of the clips that have been linked here, the guy made some deft fast-break passes. I'd like to know whether any of our more sapient correspondents sees evidence of noteworthy Olekian passing skill in the videos.

Not sure I meet anyone's definition of sapient, and I haven't seen him make any passes on video, but in each of the 12 games I saw him play in person he made at least 1 or 2 really nifty passes, both in half court sets and triggering the break. I'd say he's an unusually gifted passing big man. I just think the complementarity with Singler, who can find an open man also, could really be something special.

[MChambers]

Is "complimentarity" a word? I know what you mean by it, however.

[dkbaseball]

Is "complimentarity" a word? I know what you mean by it, however.

No, but complementarity is. Sorry -- couldn't resist.

[MChambers]

No, but complementarity is. Sorry -- couldn't resist.

It sure is, although I don't remember seeing it used in connection with sports before.

Thanks for the vocabulary lesson. I'll have to work it into some conversations this weekend.