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View Full Version : Zoubek's foot again....



markbdevil
04-08-2008, 02:09 PM
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=zoubek_has_surgery_no_2&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

Classof06
04-08-2008, 02:18 PM
Better to have the surgery sooner rather than later but this is certainly discouraging news..

happydays1949
04-08-2008, 02:19 PM
Let's just hope that this surgery will take care of it.

slower
04-08-2008, 02:19 PM
starting to get a bad feeling about this? Some injuries just never seem to heal.

eddiehaskell
04-08-2008, 02:19 PM
He won't be playing basketball for nearly 3 months! :( I don't think he'll be significantly better next year.

3 months for surgery + ~2 months to get back where he was pre-surgery. That gives him what...2-3 months before the season starts?

Jumbo
04-08-2008, 02:26 PM
This is not surprising. It wasn't a well-kept secret that when he returned, the foot wasn't exactly in good shape. I expected him to have surgery and am shocked it took this long.
The good news is that he's getting it done now. He'll miss some stuff with the team in the next two months, but for player development, the key time starts in June. So, if he hits the 10-week mark, he should be ready to go for the camps he's scheduled to attend this summer. That also gives him PLENTY of time to prepare for the upcoming season. It's not ideal, but the timing is MUCH better than last year.

Devil07
04-08-2008, 02:27 PM
The guy just can't catch a break...It does make you appreciate though what he played through to come back for the stretch run. Here's hoping that this takes care of it and Brian has a full, healthy year next go round.

MChambers
04-08-2008, 02:32 PM
He played decently down the stretch. Imagine what he'll be able to do fully healthy.

TillyGalore
04-08-2008, 02:41 PM
This situation is really bringing out the pessimist in me - but not enough to be destructively negative. :)

Coach K mentioned that Zoubek will be able to play pain free as a result of the surgery (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1435729). I'm having a hard time buying that. Not that I would expect him to say anything else, but for the kid to have two surgeries as a result of the same thing makes me a little nervous.

I do hope I'm wrong - it does happen occasionally.

wisteria
04-08-2008, 02:46 PM
This depresses me a bit. Zoub needs all the time in the off-season to improve.

I have a question, and I don't want to sound like I'm questioning the coaches' decision or something. If Zoub's foot wasn't 100%, was it a good idea that he played? (With respect to Zoub, we were glad to see him in action but he wasn't TOO much of a contributor.) Was it possible that if simply rested all the way, he wouldn't require the surgery again? I really don't know much about sports related injuries. So maybe somebody could help me understand it better. Thanks.

wisteria
04-08-2008, 02:49 PM
Also, after the wvu loss, Brian talked about joining big-man camp and playing summer ball. With the new surgery development, does it mean he won't be doing any of those things now?

elvis14
04-08-2008, 02:54 PM
This is not surprising. It wasn't a well-kept secret that when he returned, the foot wasn't exactly in good shape. I expected him to have surgery and am shocked it took this long.
The good news is that he's getting it done now. He'll miss some stuff with the team in the next two months, but for player development, the key time starts in June. So, if he hits the 10-week mark, he should be ready to go for the camps he's scheduled to attend this summer. That also gives him PLENTY of time to prepare for the upcoming season. It's not idea, but the timing is MUCH better than last year.


I agree with Jumbo that this isn't shocking and that from a timing perspective, it's not so bad. I just hope he gets healthy because after watching him improve so much at the end of the season, I'm really looking forward to seeing him be a solid contributor next season. On the bright side, Lance, Gerald and Marty will have more company at rehab this spring. If we can get Smith under the knife, we'll have a pretty good starting 5 hangin' in rehab together :D

RelativeWays
04-08-2008, 02:56 PM
I hope it goes well. Zoub can contribute if he is more assertive. We don't need a bum foot holding him back

wisteria
04-08-2008, 02:57 PM
If we can get Smith under the knife, we'll have a pretty good starting 5 hangin' in rehab together :D

Now you get me all worried. Remembering how Nolan's knee was bothering him...

ugadevil
04-08-2008, 03:10 PM
This sucks for a college student! Someone mentioned this after the surgeries for Henderson and Thomas, and it made me think the same thing for Brian. I hope he is able to keep a positive attitude about this entire situation, because it's got to be very frustrating. I can't imagine having to deal with so many health issues while I try to be a good student and have fun while I'm in school. Hopefully, Brian won't be too hindered by the surgery and is able to enjoy himself in every day activities.

msdukie
04-08-2008, 03:53 PM
I'm not sure why everyone is getting to be so alarmist. Most likely Zoubek and the staff believed he would probably need some sort of surgery for a lengthy period of time. Offseason surgeries are not uncommon, nor is playing during the season with an injury. We did have a point guard who played with a broken foot in 2006-07. I would assume that he will be fully healthy in time to begin preparation for next year and go to the camps. Also recall that DeMarcus got injured in July and had surgery and he turned out just fine. (I'm aware there are differences between foot and hand surgery).

I expect Z to be a much improved player next year.

SilkyJ
04-08-2008, 04:03 PM
Imagine what he'll be able to do fully healthy.

Yea, and when's that gonna be?


I'm not sure why everyone is getting to be so alarmist.

Well let's see, cause this is like the 3rd or 4th time with him in 2 years. Cause we know that our biggest weakness is at Center, and he's the only Center we have. And he's only a solid role player at best right now, and we need him to be starter/solid contributor and the he needs the offseason to get better and surgery means he won't be able to work on many of the aspects he needs to. B/c lower body injuries often become chronic with guys that are 7 feet tall...

VaDukie
04-08-2008, 04:04 PM
Let's think about this in a little context: the improvement showed at the end of the year was done despite playing with a hurt foot. The lack of improvement time may be compensated by the fact that he won't be playing hesitantly on a hurt foot in the future. Let's just hope he doesn't continue to aggravate it.

HK Dukie
04-08-2008, 04:09 PM
Wow, three surgeries and we are only two weeks into the offseason. Knock on wood, that is the last one that is necessary.

Coach wasn't kidding when he said the team doesn't disclose all its injuries.

....unlike other teams!

(ok, the last part wasn't from Coach but I wish it was!)

freedevil
04-08-2008, 04:11 PM
I do not mean this to sound sarcastic, but could these foot-woes account for some of Zoubek's traveling problems? By that, I mean was the pain in his foot causing him to do things he would not otherwise do?

Salty Breezes
04-08-2008, 04:22 PM
I'm just waiting for a piece of news that actually surprises Jumbo...

greybeard
04-08-2008, 04:22 PM
I do not mean this to sound sarcastic, but could these foot-woes account for some of Zoubek's traveling problems? By that, I mean was the pain in his foot causing him to do things he would not otherwise do?

This is a serious inquiry?

freedevil
04-08-2008, 04:42 PM
This is a serious inquiry?

Yeah, it's serious. Anyone who has foot pain knows that when you put lots of pressure on it (pushing off in a move to the basket) that you want to take pressure off it as soon as possible. Is he taking pressure off his foot before he puts the ball on the floor because of pain or because of an inability to simply remember to dribble?

Sorry to offend your sensibilities greybeard.

BlueintheFace
04-08-2008, 04:45 PM
I'm just waiting for a piece of news that actually surprises Jumbo...

Well, we'd all be suspicious if for once Jumbo acted surprised or actually admitted to being wrong in any regard. At least we know it's actually him and not an impostor. haha

RepoMan
04-08-2008, 04:50 PM
Yeah, it's serious. Anyone who has foot pain knows that when you put lots of pressure on it (pushing off in a move to the basket) that you want to take pressure off it as soon as possible. Is he taking pressure off his foot before he puts the ball on the floor because of pain or because of an inability to simply remember to dribble?

Sorry to offend your sensibilities greybeard.

Wait a minute . . . I think I here Greybeard's Ode to the Foot. It should be here any minute now.

SilkyJ
04-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Yeah, it's serious. Anyone who has foot pain knows that when you put lots of pressure on it (pushing off in a move to the basket) that you want to take pressure off it as soon as possible. Is he taking pressure off his foot before he puts the ball on the floor because of pain or because of an inability to simply remember to dribble?

Sorry to offend your sensibilities greybeard.

As repoman suggests above, I think greybeard actually agrees with you and thinks the answer to your question is "yes"

Also, (as repoman kinda suggests above), be prepared to be bombarded with a diatribe containing 100 different medical terms you've never heard before.


Well, we'd all be suspicious if for once Jumbo acted surprised or actually admitted to being wrong in any regard. At least we know it's actually him and not an impostor. haha

I'd be careful guys. This kinda stuff is often considering to be "attacking another poster."

MChambers
04-08-2008, 05:14 PM
Yeah, it's serious. Anyone who has foot pain knows that when you put lots of pressure on it (pushing off in a move to the basket) that you want to take pressure off it as soon as possible. Is he taking pressure off his foot before he puts the ball on the floor because of pain or because of an inability to simply remember to dribble?

Sorry to offend your sensibilities greybeard.

I think Greybeard means that of course it affected Zoubek's footwork, increasing his propensity to travel.

dukelion
04-08-2008, 05:22 PM
I was surprised when he actually returned from the reaggrevation in mid-season.

If he had pain in his foot he hid it well and means once alleviated he'll that much more mobile.

Jumbo
04-08-2008, 05:32 PM
Well, we'd all be suspicious if for once Jumbo acted surprised or actually admitted to being wrong in any regard. At least we know it's actually him and not an impostor. haha

Does this work (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5913) for you? If not, I can happily find you more examples.

I distinctly apologize for knowing that Zoubek's foot was still hurt and would probably require surgery. Clearly, I should have been releasing information that the coaching staff wasn't making public. Geez.

-jk
04-08-2008, 05:35 PM
Does this work (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5913) for you? If not, I can happily find you more examples.

I distinctly apologize for knowing that Zoubek's foot was still hurt and would probably require surgery. Clearly, I should have been releasing information that the coaching staff wasn't making public. Geez.

Maybe Jumbo's in the Duke sports information department! Not a journalist at all! He's just using DBR for his own (nefarious) purposes! Yeah, that's it!

-jk

greybeard
04-08-2008, 05:44 PM
Yeah, it's serious. Anyone who has foot pain knows that when you put lots of pressure on it (pushing off in a move to the basket) that you want to take pressure off it as soon as possible. Is he taking pressure off his foot before he puts the ball on the floor because of pain or because of an inability to simply remember to dribble?

Sorry to offend your sensibilities greybeard.

You miss my meaning, freedevil. I have been saying since the injury first occured that there was no way that Zoubek could "recover" and play anywhere up to normal this season. It was apparent to me once the season began that my prediction was unfortunately correct and I said so repeatedly.

Made precisely the same points about Paulus' foot injury and enruing performance his sophomore year.

The make believe world of it's-all-better when it comes to injuries of this sort that plays out on DBR time and again is terribly disappointing. Injuries to the feet at least do not work that way, ever.

What was to me maddening was that people on this board would criticize Zoubek for his poor footwork or some such when his difficulties were clearly the result of a seriously troubled foot. Before his injury, Zoubek displayed great footwork and vision in beating people to ideal scoring space only to be made to wait for a pass that came way to late after the defender had time to recover and was drapped all over him. He always displayed some balance/stability issues, but none that would have kept him from being a quite effective pivot, in my opinion. Those issues, however, I have to believe were the cause of the injury to his foot.

Should his foot heal well, as we all hope, Zoubek should do significant training with regard to balance issues, and with regard to gaining a better understanding of the use of his hips and torso and arms to support himself in standing and movement. Ultimately, that will lead to his having new choices about how to best use his feet in a healthy way, that will also be even more effective.

Or he can try the old ways some more and see if the results after surgery are different, but only after he improves his strength and explosiveness to make those old ways "safer." That option seems certain to be the path that the trainers and doctors will be advocating. Sadly to me it is also the one that Zoubek will likely take.

CDu
04-08-2008, 06:01 PM
Before his injury, Zoubek displayed great footwork and vision in beating people to ideal scoring space only to be made to wait for a pass that came way to late after the defender had time to recover and was drapped all over him.

Disagree with you on this one. The Zoubek I remember pre-injury looked just as travel-prone and lost as he did at times post-injury. If anything, he's looked substantially LESS likely to travel and MORE likely to be in the right spot since returning from the second injury.

I also don't really buy the argument that it's his teammates' fault for Zoubek's struggles. I think it has always been an issue of his poor balance and lack of strength/stability that have been his problem to this point (foot injuries aside).

Hopefully he can rebound from this, but I have a bad feeling with regard to a guy his size who has had multiple foot injuries in such a short time span.

Bob Green
04-08-2008, 06:19 PM
I also don't really buy the argument that it's his teammates' fault for Zoubek's struggles. I think it has always been an issue of his poor balance and lack of strength/stability that have been his problem to this point (foot injuries aside).



I agree with Greybeard. Over the past couple of years, Duke's perimeter players have struggled with delivering the ball inside at the appropriate time. I am not saying that Zoubek hasn't struggled but he could benefit immensely from better passing.

wumhenry
04-08-2008, 06:29 PM
Well, we'd all be suspicious if for once Jumbo acted surprised or actually admitted to being wrong in any regard. At least we know it's actually him and not an impostor. haha
Not a stupid imposter, anyway. ;)

freedevil
04-08-2008, 06:31 PM
You miss my meaning, freedevil. I have been saying since the injury first occured that there was no way that Zoubek could "recover" and play anywhere up to normal this season. It was apparent to me once the season began that my prediction was unfortunately correct and I said so repeatedly.

My bad. Silly internet.

BlueintheFace
04-08-2008, 06:33 PM
Does this work (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5913) for you? If not, I can happily find you more examples.

I distinctly apologize for knowing that Zoubek's foot was still hurt and would probably require surgery. Clearly, I should have been releasing information that the coaching staff wasn't making public. Geez.

Easy Jumbo, just a little teasing for the old veteran... No malicious intent here.

CDu
04-08-2008, 07:10 PM
I agree with Greybeard. Over the past couple of years, Duke's perimeter players have struggled with delivering the ball inside at the appropriate time. I am not saying that Zoubek hasn't struggled but he could benefit immensely from better passing.

I'm not saying that Duke's perimeter players aren't faultless. I'm just saying that I think it's disingenuous to suggest that Zoubek was constantly (even regularly) getting fantastic position and getting denied the ball. He may have occasionally gotten good position, but he also had trouble MAINTAINING good position (due to lack of balance/strength/stability).

There are very few players who can identify and execute an immediate entry pass to a guy who can't establish and maintain good position. With Zoubek, if you didn't see him at the EXACT moment he got good position, the moment was gone. What more seasoned post players do is learn to get good post position and MAINTAIN it, allowing teammates time to get them the ball. Zoubek unfortunately hasn't been physically ready to do that yet. That's the main reason why you don't see many successful entry passes to him - not the failure of his teammates.

Hopefully, Zoubek recovers on schedule and is able to gain a summer of good experience and preparation. If he can improve his strength, balance, and stability in the post, then maybe he'll be able to maintain that good position long enough to allow teammates to get him the ball. And maybe he can improve his post moves to provide more spaces on the floor from which he can be an effective post scorer.

MChambers
04-08-2008, 08:53 PM
Yea, and when's that gonna be?

Gee, Silky, my subject line was "look on the bright side". So I'm trying to be optimistic. You might give it a shot.

Also, if I read the news correctly, he didn't reinjure the foot. Instead, the surgery is just to relieve some discomfort.

I understand what you are saying about big men and foot troubles. Remember Bowie and Walton (although I'd be happy if Zoubs got to those levels)? But didn't Boozer break his foot twice? He turned out okay, I think.

billy
04-08-2008, 09:20 PM
From a surgeon's perspective, too little info released on GoDuke.com for us to jump to any sort of meaningful conclusions. On the positive side: maybe he had an irritating screw removed (although prob not, usually wouldn't put you out as much as 12 weeks) or some overgrown bone or scar tissue removed. On the negative side: maybe his bone has never healed and he needed a "revision" surgery with bone graft and bone stimulator etc and we don't know if it will heal or not....

I believe an earlier poster noted that it's not generally a good sign to have 3 surgeries for the same injury (I fully agree, by the way). For what it's worth, the surgeon who did BZ's surgery is the same guy who did Grant Hill's last surgery prior to his returning to play from his litany of prior surgeries.

As far as why the surgery now and not earlier, I believe that a similar situation existed with Paulus last year with his toe. You can either finish playing the season with likely no further injury and have surgery afterward or stop playing during the season and have surgery at that time. Candace Parker (sp?) is a current example of the latter - she'll have surgery to stabilize her shoulder soon after tonight's finals. I believe that Paulus took the latter approach last year and turned out ok this year, recovery wise.

geraldsneighbor
04-08-2008, 09:20 PM
They just had a long season. A month off isn't the worst thing. Two months will set him back a bit but its good we can get this thing put behind us. Hopefully Zoub will enter the non-conference season 100%. After all, alot of the improving you can do is in the non-conference schedule. Zoub and LT will push eachother through the rehab time. Putting 15 lbs on anyway sitting around wouldn't be awful even if its fat.

greybeard
04-09-2008, 01:52 AM
I'm not saying that Duke's perimeter players aren't faultless. I'm just saying that I think it's disingenuous to suggest that Zoubek was constantly (even regularly) getting fantastic position and getting denied the ball. He may have occasionally gotten good position, but he also had trouble MAINTAINING good position (due to lack of balance/strength/stability).

There are very few players who can identify and execute an immediate entry pass to a guy who can't establish and maintain good position. With Zoubek, if you didn't see him at the EXACT moment he got good position, the moment was gone. What more seasoned post players do is learn to get good post position and MAINTAIN it, allowing teammates time to get them the ball. Zoubek unfortunately hasn't been physically ready to do that yet. That's the main reason why you don't see many successful entry passes to him - not the failure of his teammates.

Hopefully, Zoubek recovers on schedule and is able to gain a summer of good experience and preparation. If he can improve his strength, balance, and stability in the post, then maybe he'll be able to maintain that good position long enough to allow teammates to get him the ball. And maybe he can improve his post moves to provide more spaces on the floor from which he can be an effective post scorer.

It's great if you can get a position and own it against all comers, aka Boozer and Brand. That is not, however, the only option for effective pivot play. The game is on, for clever outside in play, when the pivot sees space, and by looking at him, the outside guy with the ball reads his receiver, before he makes his move. Zoubek is excellent at that part of the game; Duke's littles haven't been. You catch it with space 2-4 feet from the basket, it is over. Someone closes and pushes you, you are in the midst of doing something and it is a foul.

We disagree here CDu. Zoubek came to Duke with skills and seeing the play and moving to space while leaving the defender behind was the best of them. As V used to say when I was saying it about Duke's littles Z's freshman year, feeding the pivot is a lost art. Interestingly enough, the best feeder of the pivot from the perimeter on the Duke team this year was Kyle. Too bad he couldn't be two places at once though Lord knows he tried.

Devilsfan
04-09-2008, 02:57 AM
I think we fed the post quite well, especially Scheyer. He made our "bigs" look good on many occasions.

BD80
04-09-2008, 08:13 AM
Does this work (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5913) for you? If not, I can happily find you more examples.

I distinctly apologize for knowing that Zoubek's foot was still hurt and would probably require surgery. Clearly, I should have been releasing information that the coaching staff wasn't making public. Geez.

Sorry Jumbo, that just doesn't cut it. There is a standard for apologies and mea culpas on this board:


Hail to The Jumbo (& 92)
I, Cameron, am a big dumbo, Jumbo.
[Transfer's] average took a big tumble, Jumbo.
Why did I believe my own mumbo-jumbo?
Why did I take your bet? I bumbled, Jumbo!
My avatar, my sig -- both crumbled, Jumbo!
Both serve you. I am now humbled, Jumbo (& 92).

Anything less just doesn't cut it.

Now, if we are talking about whether an apology was merited ...

greybeard
04-09-2008, 10:59 AM
I think we fed the post quite well, especially Scheyer. He made our "bigs" look good on many occasions.

Scheyer does everything quite well. However, there is nothing about Scheyer's game that makes the bigs look good. A good outside-in passer respects the abilities of the potential receiver and takes his lead from them. If Scheyer is good at getting it inside in a manner that allows a big to make a play, it is a function of mutual trust and respect, combined with imagination on both their parts. It is called team work.