Two and Thru?

[blazindw]

Link to Front Page Post (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=24749)

This could have important influence on the game of college basketball as well as that of the NBA. Forcing players to stay at least two years (or until they turn 20) would be beneficial for the NCAA game, IMO. There would be less pressure on those coaches (like Coach K) to go after those players who would leave after one year in college that don't necessarily want to disrupt their programs by having one-and-dones. By having players stay at least two years, I think there's more of a chance to have continuity in a program and to prepare for a player's potential departure. I also think that more players will be staying the full 4 years because once you're halfway done with college, I feel it can be easier to persuade them to stay in many situations.

Now, I'm not sure what changes there were to the youth game (they weren't linked in the article), but I think that overall the players' games will benefit from staying in college.

The age 20 requirement may be a little shaky. Many players enter college at age 19 as it is, so that would mean they only have to stay one season before leaving. I think the rule should be 20 and 2 years removed from high school, but that will affect the players who were born later in the year (like I was). However, I think that will ensure that players aren't unnecessarily held back in high school or middle school so that they can turn pro earlier than others.

[moonpie23]

it's not fair.....you're depriving a legal adult to right to pursue his profession. there are a lot of kids that just can't cut college academically . So, the answer is to deny a kid like lebron, or kobe, or kg the right to play in the league?

it's just not fair.....when you're 18, you should be able to work where you want to work....

what would be more appropriate, is for the NBA to police their OWN drafting policies.

[Jumbo]

Look, this change is a LONG way from happening. It has to be collective bargained, and the NBA's current CBA doesn't expire until 2011. The Players' Association doesn't support this change, so it'll take a lot to get it done.

[Classof06]

Graduating HS seniors would be given the choice of going to the NBA or going to college; if they decided go to college, they'd have to stay for at least 2 years.

However, if you enter the draft out of high school, you are no longer eligible to play college basketball ever again (agent or not). That would make kids think twice about how ready they really are for the NBA. If they're still willing to take that chance out of high school, then so be it.

Obviously this is unrealistic in terms of implementation but that's how I'd run it if it was me. Colleges can't continue to become minor leagues for the NBA and all the 1-year rule did was perpetuate that notion. I still can't believe it got passed to begin with.

[Spret42]

While I am in some ways very glad to see a world where young men who are coming to college basketball spend more time in programs learning and getting better, it also bothers me that this rule may come to pass. I am of the opinion that everything involving skills/talents/acheivement operates on the simple model of a bell curve, and players like Lebron James, Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant are so far to the right hand side of the curve, they should not be made to play two years for free under the myth of "student athlete."

At the same time the NBA is a business and certainly has the right to set the age requirements for participation. If they choose to set this rule, it is their option and any young man who wants to be in their employ will have to live by these rules.

I know this will be a very unpopular notion, but in what I would consider a perfect world, there would be the same type of legitimate minor league systems in both the NBA and NFL as we see in baseball and hockey.

I think it would best serve the idea of amateurism in American sport as well as the schools (at the end of the day, these are schools) involved if athletes in basketball and football had the opportunity to make the choice. A young baseball player has the choice between what is basically a paid apprenticeship working for an organization, recieving top quality instruction and learning how to be a proffesional in order to eventually be promoted to "the show" and going to college where he will be required to stay for 3 years and be a true student athlete while also recieving quality instruction. That choice isn't afforded to a basketball or football player. That seems to me to be something that needs to be addressed.

I understand that college baseball is pretty much a minor sport, and maybe this would have the same impact on college basketball and football, reducing them to minor sports. This is where so many will divert from me, I don't care about that. There is nothing written in stone which says the Final Four and college basketball needs to be a spectacle. The Final Four could exist much in the same way as the college baseball world series.

I know this would never happen because of the money.

[blazindw]

it's not fair.....you're depriving a legal adult to right to pursue his profession. there are a lot of kids that just can't cut college academically . So, the answer is to deny a kid like lebron, or kobe, or kg the right to play in the league?

it's just not fair.....when you're 18, you should be able to work where you want to work....

what would be more appropriate, is for the NBA to police their OWN drafting policies.

The rule doesn't automatically say you have to go to college for 2 years. You can take time off or play in Europe. You just have to be 2 years removed from your high school class or age 20. 99.9% of people will go to college of some sort before trying to enter the draft, however.


Look, this change is a LONG way from happening. It has to be collective bargained, and the NBA's current CBA doesn't expire until 2011. The Players' Association doesn't support this change, so it'll take a lot to get it done.

Really? I had heard (I think through an article in the Houston Chronicle) that the PA had some issues with the policy, but that they were ultimately in favor of it. But you are right, any changes wouldn't kick in until the new collective bargaining agreement takes effect in 2011.

[dukerev]

With all due respect to moonpie, it is fair. The NBA is far from the only place a person can pursue his chosen craft to be a professional basketball player. It is one "company" of many in the world who pay people to play the game. Obviously, it is the company that pays the most money (usually, though there may come a point when certain European leagues pay their top stars as much as the NBA franchises do in order to keep their best players...but that's not yet and I digress....) Every company has the right to determine its hiring practices. Law firms could hire persons right out of high school (all you have to do is pass the bar, not have a J.D.), but almost none of them do - they require law degrees. The NBA is saying that a person needs a certain level of training in order to be "hired" into their particular company. Clearly, the NBA has to come to an agreement with their current workforce and collectively bargain this, but in the end, a company can hire who it wants to hire.

[Edouble]

Look, this change is a LONG way from happening. It has to be collective bargained, and the NBA's current CBA doesn't expire until 2011. The Players' Association doesn't support this change, so it'll take a lot to get it done.

Exactly, it's gonna be 3 years before this actually comes to a vote. I know that Stern is trying to gain public support by aligning himself with Brand and the NCAA, but there's no way he can keep this on the edge of people's tongues for 3 years. I think that all this talk will probably die down soon.

[Acymetric]

Exactly, it's gonna be 3 years before this actually comes to a vote. I know that Stern is trying to gain public support by aligning himself with Brand and the NCAA, but there's no way he can keep this on the edge of people's tongues for 3 years. I think that all this talk will probably die down soon.

I'm not gong to pretend to fully understand how the CBA works, or anything like that. But the way I understand it, they're trying to get the players union to agree to make the change now, in exchange for the NBA giving in to some undetermined request from the players.

[Highlander]

it's not fair.....you're depriving a legal adult to right to pursue his profession. there are a lot of kids that just can't cut college academically . So, the answer is to deny a kid like lebron, or kobe, or kg the right to play in the league?

it's just not fair.....when you're 18, you should be able to work where you want to work....

what would be more appropriate, is for the NBA to police their OWN drafting policies.

Agree with the policing of their own policies. Disagree on the age restriction.

Lots of professions have minimum requirements for employment. Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, plumbers, barbers, etc. I could be the best field doctor in the world, but if I don't have a license I can't get a job.

NFL also has an age restriction, and it's more restrictive. Maurice Clarett from Ohio State took them to court to change it and lost. Linky (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1808438).

After the appeals court blocked Clarett's entry, saying it believed it would rule against him, the 20-year-old athlete sought help from the U.S. Supreme Court. Two justices turned him down.

On Monday, the appeals court said Clarett was "no different from the typical worker who is confident that he or she has the skills to fill a job vacancy, but does not possess the qualifications or meet the requisite criteria that have been set."

It said ruling in favor of Clarett would be deciding that professional football players were entitled to advantages under federal labor laws that transport workers, coal miners or meat packers do not enjoy.

[RelativeWays]

I was going to say two and through, damn you blazindw, damn you!;)

[Cavlaw]

With all due respect to moonpie, it is fair. The NBA is far from the only place a person can pursue his chosen craft to be a professional basketball player. It is one "company" of many in the world who pay people to play the game. Obviously, it is the company that pays the most money (usually, though there may come a point when certain European leagues pay their top stars as much as the NBA franchises do in order to keep their best players...but that's not yet and I digress....) Every company has the right to determine its hiring practices. Law firms could hire persons right out of high school (all you have to do is pass the bar, not have a J.D.), but almost none of them do - they require law degrees. The NBA is saying that a person needs a certain level of training in order to be "hired" into their particular company. Clearly, the NBA has to come to an agreement with their current workforce and collectively bargain this, but in the end, a company can hire who it wants to hire.
Sorry to pick a nit and go a bit off on a tangent, but in all but a small handful of states you must have a JD to sit for the bar exam (and in the exceptions you have to comply with other requirements for self-study programs).

[blazindw]

I was going to say two and through, damn you blazindw, damn you!;)

Haha, well when I trademark the phrase before it becomes popular, I will put you on the trademark so we both get a cut of the royalties ;)

[weezie]

The rule doesn't automatically say you have to go to college for 2 years. You can take time off or play in Europe. You just have to be 2 years removed from your high school class or age 20. 99.9% of people will go to college of some sort before trying to enter the draft, however.


Some radio comments were made about the quality of the best high school players that have been seen over the past years: KG, KB, Bronnie, "Superman in Orlando" and how their off court behaviors have been well-adjusted (yes-yes, Kobe, but that was quite a while into his career.)
While I wish college was a real draw to great players, I still wonder about forcing a truly great talent to wait so long.
If I had a child/genius able to play Chopin with the London Symphony Orchestra, I sure would want it to happen.

[JG Nothing]

Agree with the policing of their own policies. Disagree on the age restriction.

Lots of professions have minimum requirements for employment. Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, plumbers, barbers, etc. I could be the best field doctor in the world, but if I don't have a license I can't get a job.

NFL also has an age restriction, and it's more restrictive. Maurice Clarett from Ohio State took them to court to change it and lost. Linky (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1808438).
[/I]

There is, of course, a difference between fair and legal. It may be legal to have an age restriction, but that does not make it fair.

[wilko]

Like with Trajan...

Didint the Padres pay for him to be at Duke?
How does that work exactly?

Why cant a pro team make an investment in a guy a send him to college to mature and still retain rights to him?

I dont understand the concpet of amateurism in this case. Kids have been going to camps and playing ball for yrs upon yrs by the time they get to be college age. How exactly is that being an ameteur?

[Jumbo]

I'm not gong to pretend to fully understand how the CBA works, or anything like that. But the way I understand it, they're trying to get the players union to agree to make the change now, in exchange for the NBA giving in to some undetermined request from the players.

That's incorrect. It will not be bargained until 2011.

[dukemath]

I would like to see college players stay around for at least two years. They should have to make a committment to be a student-athlete if they are going to go to college.

That being said, I do not think it is really fair to hold back a high-school graduate from earning a living. So here is my solution. Allow teams to draft players out of high school, but send them to the NBDL for their first two years. This could help with the concerns about maturity and improving fundamentals and allows the players who do not want to go to college the opportunity to earn a living playing basketball. With good talent in the NBDL, you will see more interest in that league. Players who start college should be committed for 2 years.
(I know. I'm stealing this from baseball.)

I think this solution is fair. I gave up a bigger salary coming out of college to be a graduate student and then a post-doc. I got some training, they got some cheap labor, and now I am moving into a tenure-track position.

I can't belive the NBA hasn't thought about this.

[allenmurray]

However, if you enter the draft out of high school, you are no longer eligible to play college basketball ever again (agent or not). That would make kids think twice about how ready they really are for the NBA. If they're still willing to take that chance out of high school, then so be it.


Setting up a system where a 17 or 18 year old will be punished in a way that might end their career in a chosen filed due to a one-time mistake in judgement, seems to go against the best interests of the kids and the purported goals of colleges and universities. Your position makes sense if you only care about the entertainment value of college sports. If you actually care about the kids you might want to soften that up just a tad.

[Spret42]

That being said, I do not think it is really fair to hold back a high-school graduate from earning a living. So here is my solution. Allow teams to draft players out of high school, but send them to the NBDL for their first two years. This could help with the concerns about maturity and improving fundamentals and allows the players who do not want to go to college the opportunity to earn a living playing basketball. With good talent in the NBDL, you will see more interest in that league. Players who start college should be committed for 2 years.
(I know. I'm stealing this from baseball.)

I think this solution is fair. I gave up a bigger salary coming out of college to be a graduate student and then a post-doc. I got some training, they got some cheap labor, and now I am moving into a tenure-track position.

I can't belive the NBA hasn't thought about this.

Hey didn't I just say that. ;) :D I was way to long though. God I STILL need an editor.

I am in absolute agreement. The NBA and NFL have though about it I am sure. Why it will never happen.

A. It will cost the NBA and NFL money to provide, equip and pay the salaries of a legitimate minorleague system. Why do that when you can rely on the NCAA to do it for free under the guise of "student athletes."

B. College coaches go back to being moderately paid. You provide a minor leagues and "Big Time" college coaches dissappear. No more boosters, no more millions, no more "campus legends." They will fight a minor league with every ounce of energy they have. This is their bottom line.

[SilkyJ]

it's just not fair.....when you're 18, you should be able to work where you want to work....


Welcome to the real world where people have to apply for jobs. you don't get to just go work wherever "you want to work" just b/c you driver's license has a certain date on it.

In the business world people put artificial boundaries around the type of people they will hire to ensure that the product of their work is of the highest quality. An example would be only looking at applicants who have a GPA above 3.0.

With the NBA the product is the game being played on the court and obviously they feel that younger/more immature people or whatever are diminishing their product. Or at least it can be justified in this manner.

[dukemath]

Sorry Spret, I didn't read your post thoroughly.

[Spret42]

Sorry Spret, I didn't read your post thoroughly.

Oh man, don't apologize. I was kidding. It is nice to see someone else recognizing that the simplest way to fix this is a legit minor league. What is the NB"D"L for if not "D-VEL-OP-MENT."

[JG Nothing]

Welcome to the real world where people have to apply for jobs. you don't get to just go work wherever "you want to work" just b/c you driver's license has a certain date on it.

In the business world people put artificial boundaries around the type of people they will hire to ensure that the product of their work is of the highest quality. An example would be only looking at applicants who have a GPA above 3.0.

With the NBA the product is the game being played on the court and obviously they feel that younger/more immature people or whatever are diminishing their product. Or at least it can be justified in this manner.

"Welcome to the real world"? What does the "real world" have to do with moonpie23's claim? The "artificial boundaries" you talk about are just that, artificial. Moonpie23, I assume, is saying that it is wrong to have artificial boundaries that discriminate against 18 years old simply because of their age. Just because discrimination actually occurs does not necessarily make it right.

[GopherBlue]

it's not fair.....you're depriving a legal adult to right to pursue his profession. there are a lot of kids that just can't cut college academically . So, the answer is to deny a kid like lebron, or kobe, or kg the right to play in the league?

it's just not fair.....when you're 18, you should be able to work where you want to work....

what would be more appropriate, is for the NBA to police their OWN drafting policies.

Can't say I agree with you on this one. They are not stating that a kid cannot play for pay until he is 20, but rather, he cannot play in the NBA for pay until he's 20. Go oversees, or perhaps the NBA developmental league, heck, sign with the Washington Generals if you don't want to go to college. The NBA has every right to determine what is in best interest of its brand and product. I don't see it as any different than posting a job description that requires at least 2 year of post high-school education.

The impact of this decision on the NBA product can be debated, but the NBA has every right to make this call.

Besides, being an 18 year old 'adult' does not give you the legal right to pursue alcohol, rent a car, or a run for president.

[JasonEvans]

Like with Trajan...

Didint the Padres pay for him to be at Duke?
How does that work exactly?

Why cant a pro team make an investment in a guy a send him to college to mature and still retain rights to him?

I dont understand the concpet of amateurism in this case. Kids have been going to camps and playing ball for yrs upon yrs by the time they get to be college age. How exactly is that being an ameteur?

Trajan was not paid to play basketball so he could continue to do that for Duke. He would not have been allowed to play baseball at Duke. He gave up his baseball elligibility but retained it in basketball.

Also, because he was being paid to pay another sport (baseball) I believe he was not allowed to get a scholarship to play another sport (basketball) which is why the Padres paid Trajan's tuition while he was at Duke.

I may be wrong about the scholarship stuff, but I know you can be a pro in one sport and retain amateur status in other sports.

--Jason "Danny Ainge was a pro baseball player while still at BYU, I think" Evans

[dyedwab]

I would like to see college players stay around for at least two years. They should have to make a committment to be a student-athlete if they are going to go to college.

That being said, I do not think it is really fair to hold back a high-school graduate from earning a living. So here is my solution. Allow teams to draft players out of high school, but send them to the NBDL for their first two years. This could help with the concerns about maturity and improving fundamentals and allows the players who do not want to go to college the opportunity to earn a living playing basketball. With good talent in the NBDL, you will see more interest in that league. Players who start college should be committed for 2 years.
(I know. I'm stealing this from baseball.)

I think this solution is fair. I gave up a bigger salary coming out of college to be a graduate student and then a post-doc. I got some training, they got some cheap labor, and now I am moving into a tenure-track position.

I can't belive the NBA hasn't thought about this.


i think they have thought about, but the structure of both the rookie salary cap and the NCAA make it cheaper for the NBA to not have a fully operational minor league.

Basically, if you take an NBA team whose rotation is 9-10 players, they have two roster slots for guys who play little. it is cose effective for them to use that for a player just out of high school paid at most 3.5 million a year to sit on the bench. And if they are more than a couple of years away from becoming an effective player, then have them go to college where the development costs for that player is 0 to the NBA team

I believe that an effective NBDL or other minor league would solve some of the quandries about both the NBA and the college game. But it doesn't appear to me that the NBA has the incentive to build that league

[SilkyJ]

"Welcome to the real world"? What does the "real world" have to do with moonpie23's claim? The "artificial boundaries" you talk about are just that, artificial. Moonpie23, I assume, is saying that it is wrong to have artificial boundaries that discriminate against 18 years old simply because of their age.

Well, moonpie said:

"when you're 18, you should be able to work where you want to work"

In some fantasy world that may happen, but in the real world it don't work like that. You know what, I'm 23 and I WANT to work for ESPN as a color analyst for college basketball. But seeing as how I have zero experience in journalism, broadcasting and the like, it ain't gonna happen, cause this isn't Silky's playland.

I think my father would respond with: welcome to the real world. Life isn't fair:

Goldman sachs won't look at your resume if your gpa was as low as mine.

The Navy won't allow you to apply to be a fighter pilot if you have ever worn glasses and have not had corrective surgery.

You can't become president of the United States if you are under the age of XX (civics was like 8th grade, gimme a break).

These boundaries exist for a good reason. Organizations MUST create them in order to be successful. You want to amend the constitution too?

[MIKESJ73]

At twenty you are not mature enough to drink a beer, but you are mature enough to handle 10 million dollars?

[wilko]

So here is my solution. Allow teams to draft players out of high school, but send them to the NBDL for their first two years. This could help with the concerns about maturity and improving fundamentals and allows the players who do not want to go to college the opportunity to earn a living playing basketball. With good talent in the NBDL, you will see more interest in that league. Players who start college should be committed for 2 years.
(I know. I'm stealing this from baseball.)

I think this solution is fair.

I can't belive the NBA hasn't thought about this.

So another tactic would be to Draft from the NBDL after "x" yrs of NBDL experience... No age limit.... Guys can get paid and improve.. College BBall doesnt have to hold its breath about early entry...

BUT.... the NBDL... if you play for them are you still an amateur? Could you go to college after the NBDL?

[Kdogg]

it's not fair.....you're depriving a legal adult to right to pursue his profession. there are a lot of kids that just can't cut college academically . So, the answer is to deny a kid like lebron, or kobe, or kg the right to play in the league?

it's just not fair.....when you're 18, you should be able to work where you want to work....

what would be more appropriate, is for the NBA to police their OWN drafting policies.

You realize even the US government does this. The Constitution prevents me from being POTUS because I'm not 35. I could not be a Senator until last year. There is nothing unfair about an organization restricting employment to only qualified employees.


The rule doesn't automatically say you have to go to college for 2 years. You can take time off or play in Europe. You just have to be 2 years removed from your high school class or age 20. 99.9% of people will go to college of some sort before trying to enter the draft, however.

Really? I had heard (I think through an article in the Houston Chronicle) that the PA had some issues with the policy, but that they were ultimately in favor of it. But you are right, any changes wouldn't kick in until the new collective bargaining agreement takes effect in 2011.

Right now the PA does not support the rule. It sees what happened to Oden last summer and understands the ramifications. If Oden had stayed at Ohio State and required microfracture surgury he wouldn't have entered the draft until after his junior year. Billy Hunter and the PA, like any union, has to look out for its members. There are less and less four year guys in the NBA, so they are not looking to protect veterans as much. More and more are early entrants, so they know the risks.

Stern is a very bright business man and is trying to strengthen his position. He knows that the CBA is not up until 2011, but negotiations will start next fall/winter. This is a big PR move to build public support for the next two years. Every college basketball talking head (Vitale, Packer, Digger, Knight, etc..) will be talking this up over the next two seasons. I'm sure this will be Vitale's new cause de jours. Stern might not be able to get this passed but he can use to to extract other concessions. It's a win-win for Stern. The NCAA has nothing to lose but something to gain so it's in for the ride.

[JasonEvans]

So another tactic would be to Draft from the NBDL after "x" yrs of NBDL experience... No age limit.... Guys can get paid and improve.. College BBall doesnt have to hold its breath about early entry...

BUT.... the NBDL... if you play for them are you still an amateur? Could you go to college after the NBDL?

But college basketball has a fervent following, allowing people to become fans of players beffore they ever enter the NBA. It is the best "minor league" around because many of the players who come into the NBA already have built in fans and PR value. The same does not nearly exist in baseball or certainly in hockey. It sorta happens in college football but the "star system" is not as essential to football as it is to basketball.

One reason the NBA wants these kids to stay in school longer is to build up each player's "brand" even more before they join the league.

--Jason "it is all about the Benjamins" Evans

[dukemath]

i think they have thought about, but the structure of both the rookie salary cap and the NCAA make it cheaper for the NBA to not have a fully operational minor league.

Basically, if you take an NBA team whose rotation is 9-10 players, they have two roster slots for guys who play little. it is cose effective for them to use that for a player just out of high school paid at most 3.5 million a year to sit on the bench. And if they are more than a couple of years away from becoming an effective player, then have them go to college where the development costs for that player is 0 to the NBA team

I believe that an effective NBDL or other minor league would solve some of the quandries about both the NBA and the college game. But it doesn't appear to me that the NBA has the incentive to build that league

The beauty of using the NBDL is that they don't have to pay $3.5 million.
Minor league = minor $. Teams get a chance to evaluate players and possibly weed out the Kwame Browns.

If they go to the NBDL they make a little money, but get only a little exposure. Its a risk because they could bust, but at least the league is not denying them the opportunity to play for $ in the states. If they choose to go to college, they make zero at first, but then can build their "brand" as Jason says.

[wilko]

But college basketball has a fervent following, allowing people to become fans of players before they ever enter the NBA.

One reason the NBA wants these kids to stay in school longer is to build up each player's "brand" even more before they join the league.

--Jason "it is all about the Benjamins" Evans


I can see your point from that angle. But im not buying it 100%

It used to be that College ball and pro ball were about as similar as collegiate and pro wrestling.. but sadly they are becoming more similar to one another. Just because a guys comes to Duke is not going to inspire me to watch more games when hes a pro. Its just not.

I have enuff demands on my time. I cant add a new sport. :-)
Wifey will kill me.


Where Im coming from is.... the guys who wanna be paid ... fine. Figure out a way to pay them. Either legitmize it, decriminalize it (NCAA position), or isolate it.

Im still gonna watch and root for Duke if all the players are my height, age, weight and games take 9 hours to play.

All Im saying is flatten the spike of early entry and return to SOLID FUNDAMENTALS as opposed to overly physical / emphasis on atheletic play.

If a journalism major, gets a side gig and sells some storys to a paper or magazine, thats all well and good. But a sports player cant get paid for running a shooting clinic or for a meet and greet autograph session? Theres something wrong there.

Maybe as part of this detante' and joint cooperation between the league and the NCAA, they will modify the notion of "Amateur" and allow some concessions that make sense.

[Sandman]

I'm not convinced 1-and-done is good for the players or their universities. If a kid is only in school for one year to play basketball, what does he gain? What motivates him to even go to class, much less study, write papers, take exams,etc. He's going to play basketball, then leave. I don't think 2-and done will be much better. If a person coming out oh high school can begin working immediately, doing what he loves and making millions in the process, what's wrong with that? If he wants a college education, that is certainly still available to him. Let the kids, their families, and the marketplace decide their future -- not a bunch of old guys with $$ signs in their eyes.

[glutton]

If a person coming out oh high school can begin working immediately, doing what he loves and making millions in the process, what's wrong with that?

Well, there's nothing wrong with it, but if the NBA feels that inexperienced 18-year-olds are detrimental to the quality of their product, they have every right to institute an age requirement. I do wish there were some way to allow through the exceptional cases, like Lebron and Kobe, who are ready to play and contribute straight out of high school, while limiting the whole "drafting on potential" business that's currently screwing up both professional and college basketball.

[mgtr]

We all are aware of players, such as LeBron and Kobe, who have done well in the NBA straight out of high school. But I wonder what percent of these kids have been total flops? Or played for one year or two and then flamed out -- lack of talent, lack of smarts, lack of good advice? Or failed due to lack of self-control, booze, drugs, or just too big a posse.

[1Devil]

I think a player ought to be able to go to the NBA once he's 18. However, I think that once a player signs up for the NCAA, it ought to be at least a two year commitment. That is, he should be ineligible for the draft until after his second college season.