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houstondukie
04-05-2008, 11:25 PM
Q. Thomas graduates...

I think TH comes back for his senior yr.
Ellington and Lawson go pro.
Don't be surprised if D. Green tests the waters.

CameronBlue
04-05-2008, 11:30 PM
Q.
Don't be surprised if D. Green tests the waters.

Huh?!! you mean Green is going to join the Merchant Marines?

duke98
04-05-2008, 11:30 PM
In my gut, they're all back next year, though it pains me to say it. Hansborough is back for sure, and if he does come back, I'm going to have a hard time not pulling for him if the Heels make it farther in the tourney than we do. I can't help but respect anyone who passes up the NBA for another chance to win an NC, even if he is a 'hole.

If anyone's gone, it's Lawson, which will hurt the Heels considerably since Q. Thomas is graduating. It all falls to Bobby Frasor next year...we'll see if he's up to the challenge.

Duvall
04-05-2008, 11:31 PM
Huh?!! you mean Green is going to join the Merchant Marines?

I think he'll be spending the summer doing research at the Marine Lab.

CameronBlue
04-05-2008, 11:32 PM
In my gut, they're all back next year, though it pains me to say it. Hansborough is back for sure, and if he does come back, I'm going to have a hard time not pulling for him if the Heels make it farther in the tourney than we do. I can't help but respect anyone who passes up the NBA for another chance to win an NC, even if he is a 'hole.

If anyone's gone, it's Lawson, which will hurt the Heels considerably since Q. Thomas is graduating. It all falls to Bobby Frasor next year...we'll see if he's up to the challenge.

Okay, maybe Hansbro IS back but did anyone else find the timing of the announcement that his shirt will be retired, coming before the ACC Tournament and no auspicious event on the immediate horizon, a little odd?

Coballs
04-05-2008, 11:33 PM
In my gut, they're all back next year, though it pains me to say it. Hansborough is back for sure, and if he does come back, I'm going to have a hard time not pulling for him if the Heels make it farther in the tourney than we do. I can't help but respect anyone who passes up the NBA for another chance to win an NC, even if he is a 'hole.

If anyone's gone, it's Lawson, which will hurt the Heels considerably since Q. Thomas is graduating. It all falls to Bobby Frasor next year...we'll see if he's up to the challenge.

You're kidding, right?

freedevil
04-05-2008, 11:33 PM
Hansborough is back for sure, and if he does come back, I'm going to have a hard time not pulling for him if the Heels make it farther in the tourney than we do. I can't help but respect anyone who passes up the NBA for another chance to win an NC, even if he is a 'hole.

This is blasphemy.

geraldsneighbor
04-05-2008, 11:33 PM
They'll be back don't worry. Let's just hope King was the last of the Blue Devils to leave. This will be our season regardless. It has to be.

CameronBlue
04-05-2008, 11:38 PM
Okay so NCAA Championship count by coaches

K 3
Dean 2
McQuire 1
Sloan 1
Jimmie V 1
Williams (Md) 1
D'Oh .5
Williams (UNC-Ch) .5

Have I missed anyone?

BlueintheFace
04-05-2008, 11:39 PM
Nobody, and you are reading that right... NOBODY is leaving

moonpie23
04-05-2008, 11:41 PM
In my gut, they're all back next year, though it pains me to say it. Hansborough is back for sure, and if he does come back, I'm going to have a hard time not pulling for him if the Heels make it farther in the tourney than we do. I can't help but respect anyone who passes up the NBA for another chance to win an NC, even if he is a 'hole.


put down your drink...



they will all go just like felton and may......they've seen how HARD it is to even GET close as well as how close their NBA money is to being gone on an injury.... PLUS.......how much confidence can you have in the head coach and staff when you've been the best team in the nation two years running and you STILL get bounced...

also.....hanstravel's dad was crying...he knows that was the last time he'll play as a hole...


wow.....

pete89
04-05-2008, 11:45 PM
Just Q....

Tyler and Ty have both been said many times that they wont consider leaving until they win a NC. Plus considering how badly they played, there is no way any player on that team deserves a lottery pick. I'd be surprised if even one Carolina player is even projected in the first round

Coballs
04-05-2008, 11:46 PM
put down your drink...



they will all go just like felton and may......they've seen how HARD it is to even GET close as well as how close their NBA money is to being gone on an injury.... PLUS.......how much confidence can you have in the head coach and staff when you've been the best team in the nation two years running and you STILL get bounced...

also.....hanstravel's dad was crying...he knows that was the last time he'll play as a hole...


wow.....

Again, last year they were not as good as the two time defending champions Florida.

Coballs
04-05-2008, 11:47 PM
Just Q....

Tyler and Ty have both been said many times that they wont consider leaving until they win a NC. Plus considering how badly they played, there is no way any player on that team deserves a lottery pick. I'd be surprised if even one Carolina player is even projected in the first round

Sooner or later, by NCAA rules, they will be forced to leave.

MarkD83
04-05-2008, 11:52 PM
Reporter: Are you going pro?

Player sitting in locker room with coaches and teammates around with meaningful games left to play: "Of course I am staying"

We won't know who stays and who goes until the NBA deadline is past.

geraldsneighbor
04-05-2008, 11:55 PM
Tyler's not so chatty after a loss.

bbar7502
04-05-2008, 11:56 PM
I have been telling my wife that I had no clue what hanstravel was majoring in, in college. He has shot like a million free throws and that is when they usually show it but I have never seen it. Well tonight I finally saw that he majors in communications. As soon as we saw that my wife asked me if hooked on phonics is considered communications.....I proceeded to spit my drink out haha....:)

Cameron
04-06-2008, 12:21 AM
I think it's rather simple:

If Lawson and Ellington leave, Hansbrough is gone also. At that point, the writing would already be on the wall that Carolina will not be winning anything big, with or without the plow horse.

If both Lawson and Ellington return, then Hasbrough will as well.

I honestly don't think it will happen in any other way. One of those two outcomes will be it, IMO.

Let's hope for the former.

eddiehaskell
04-06-2008, 01:00 AM
Can Lawson turn down 2+ million (lottery pick?) for a CHANCE to win it all.

I believe they all know - no matter how good a team is, they can lose in a 1 and done tournament. Also, any player can get hurt.

How torrmenting would the thought of coming back and going through this all again be for UNC players? With what these guys have accomplished, it would be a wasted year.

Regardless, if UNC brings back Hansbrough, I believe they'll still be a GREAT team even without Lawson and Ellington. :eek:

Hansbrough (can you imagine him with another year of hard work???)
Thompson
Stepheson
Ginyard
Frazier (starting point guard)
Green (starting in place of Ellington)

Now throw in Tyler Zeller, Ed Davis and Larry Drew. If just one of those can step in and play as well as a Singler - I wouldn't be surprised to see a final four appearance.

pfrduke
04-06-2008, 01:14 AM
Can Lawson turn down 2+ million (lottery pick?) for a CHANCE to win it all.

I believe they all know - no matter how good a team is, they can lose in a 1 and done tournament. Also, any player can get hurt.

How torrmenting would the thought of coming back and going through this all again be for UNC players? With what these guys have accomplished, it would be a wasted year.

Regardless, if UNC brings back Hansbrough, I believe they'll still be a GREAT team even without Lawson and Ellington. :eek:

Hansbrough (can you imagine him with another year of hard work???)
Thompson
Stepheson
Ginyard
Frazier (starting point guard)
Green (starting in place of Ellington)

Now throw in Tyler Zeller, Ed Davis and Larry Drew. If just one of those can step in and play as well as a Singler - I wouldn't be surprised to see a final four appearance.

Is Lawson a lottery pick though? At the very least, Beasley, Rose, Gordon, Bayless, Lopez, and Mayo are ahead of him. I don't know the rest of the draft class that well, but Lawson doesn't strike me as a top 10 kind of guy. He's Speedy Claxton on a better college team.

moonpie23
04-06-2008, 01:35 AM
Is Lawson a lottery pick though? .


boozer was a 2nd rounder....

eddiehaskell
04-06-2008, 01:46 AM
Is Lawson a lottery pick though? At the very least, Beasley, Rose, Gordon, Bayless, Lopez, and Mayo are ahead of him. I don't know the rest of the draft class that well, but Lawson doesn't strike me as a top 10 kind of guy. He's Speedy Claxton on a better college team.Good point - he probably isn't a lottery pick. If he's a top 20 selection, he is probably looking at $1.5M or so. Of course if he waits, he could be a 6-10th pick next year and tack on an extra $500k-$1M. However, he knows what it's like to get injured and that could be running though his mind.

Bob Green
04-06-2008, 01:47 AM
In regard to Lawson, his health will be a considerable factor in the decision. He looked slow down the stretch due to the lingering effects of his ankle injury at the hands of FSU's Mr. Reid. Even tonight, he played with a big brace on his ankle. Lawson has to impress the NBA staffs in pre-draft workouts to ensure he is a 1st Round pick and he can't complete that assignment if less than 100%.

I see Lawson, Ellington, and Hansbrough all back next year. As far as Danny Green is concerned, someone had better read him a bedtime story about Scotty Thurman's experiences with the NBA draft.

kinghoops
04-06-2008, 01:53 AM
fwiw, gotlieb on espn radio post game show said hanswalk is gone, citing his age being the biggest factor, remember he is 23, lawson would go, and ellington was a maybe

Duvall
04-06-2008, 01:57 AM
fwiw, gotlieb on espn radio post game show said hanswalk is gone, citing his age being the biggest factor, remember he is 23, lawson would go, and ellington was a maybe

I doubt Gottlieb knows anything.

In fact, I'm fairly certain he doesn't.

bhop22
04-06-2008, 02:05 AM
Don't compare Lawson to Speedy Claxton. No way he has as many nice siuts as Speedy. The Hawks have seen about 2 years worth of them from Speedy.

Coballs
04-06-2008, 02:09 AM
Don't compare Lawson to Speedy Claxton. No way he has as many nice siuts as Speedy. The Hawks have seen about 2 years worth of them from Speedy.

I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'd love to know.

pete89
04-06-2008, 02:22 AM
fwiw, gotlieb on espn radio post game show said hanswalk is gone, citing his age being the biggest factor, remember he is 23, lawson would go, and ellington was a maybe

Citing gotlieb completely undermines your credibility. Lawson is probaly the biggest flight risk. I think Waynes decision will reflect Henderson's and vice versa due to their high school friendship. Who knows

kinghoops
04-06-2008, 02:28 AM
Citing gotlieb completely undermines your credibility. Lawson is probaly the biggest flight risk. I think Waynes decision will reflect Henderson's and vice versa due to their high school friendship. Who knows

hey pete, i prefaced my post with, fwiw, which translates to for what its worth and i have no credability, i have no inside information, i was just passing on what i heard on the public airways

eddiehaskell
04-06-2008, 02:39 AM
23 Nov 3rd, but yeah, that's gettin' up there for a rookie. He'd be a 24 yr old NBA rookie if he stays.

As a basketball fan, part of me wants to watch him more in college. As a Duke fan, part of me wants to see him long gone.

dukemsu
04-06-2008, 02:43 AM
I would guess that Lawson and Ellington are gone. Hans should go, but will stay.

Why do I think Hans should go?

1. No way his stock ever gets better.

2. I know he got his 17 and 9 tonight, but KU rendered him largely ineffective for long stretches of the game. The template has always been there-throw a ton of bodies at him, stay physical and keep him off the foul line. KU was able to execute it, basically to perfection. Many of his points were on second chances. Other teams will copy this. Not all will be able to execute it, but the plan is out there.

3. There just is not that much for him to improve on, outside of range on his J and his passing (truly a weakness). He had the one nice assist tonight and I almost fell out of my chair in shock. He is an alarmingly below average passer out of double teams. That is about his only major weakness, but it is a big one. I do not see him drawing too many double teams in the NBA, so maybe it is not a big deal.

I admit that I am biased. I really enjoyed the play when he got his shot smashed back in his face (that is a sure sign of things to come) and also the fact that KU was every bit as physical with him as he is with everyone else.

The kid gives it all he has, as we have all heard ad nauseum. If he comes back for a title run, he has nowhere to go but down.

That all said, I would guess he still comes back to haunt us all for another season. But at some point his halo will go away-he will have to prepare for the inevitable backlash.

Ignatius07
04-06-2008, 02:44 AM
Citing gotlieb completely undermines your credibility. Lawson is probaly the biggest flight risk. I think Waynes decision will reflect Henderson's and vice versa due to their high school friendship. Who knows

Did you not read the press release after Henderson's and LT's surgeries? Gerald is going to be out for 12-16 weeks. He is not entering the draft.

kinghoops
04-06-2008, 02:45 AM
as far as danny green goes, i heard he had two offers,

1 to go on dancing with the stars

2 do the dance portion of pedros skit on napoleon dynamites sequel

Matches
04-06-2008, 08:29 AM
My uninformed opinion is that Lawson is likely to go - from what I've heard he gave it some pretty serious thought last year as well. He'll be a 10-15 pick in the draft IMO.

Ellington I think stays. I just don't think he'd be a first-round lock at this point - perhaps next year.

Hansbrough is the borderline case. I could totally see him coming back, but I really do think he'd be picked around #20, I don't think he'll improve significantly on that next year, and he's going to be ready for retirement within a few years. I wouldn't be surprised either way there.

Green is of course staying.

Karl Beem
04-06-2008, 08:35 AM
fwiw, gotlieb on espn radio post game show said hanswalk is gone, citing his age being the biggest factor, remember he is 23, lawson would go, and ellington was a maybe

Clever Hans had better go before arthritis sets in.:p

davekay1971
04-06-2008, 08:38 AM
Psoupy T will be back...he knows what waits for him in the NBA (ie: Carlos Boozer and Elton Brand wearing him out for 48 straight minutes).

I think Lawson will be gone and Ellington will at least see where his draft position might be.

If those two leave, Carolina will still be a very good team. If they stay, Carolina will once again start the year as a favorite to win it all. Which begs the question: what kind of collapse do you think they can come up with next year? :D

cbarry
04-06-2008, 08:55 AM
I am really surprised at the replies on this topic! I have a real gut feeling that Ellington, Lawson, AND Hansbrough are gone. Of those 3, Hans is the one I feel most likely to leave. Almost everyone else on this board thinks that 1, 2 or all 3 will return next year. Hansbrough has accomplished all he can (ACC Champs, FF, NPOY), and even if they got to the Final 4 in 09, there are no guarantees! He wouldn't raise his stock much higher than it is now (and faces the risk of injury... or an off year).

They're all NBA bound. Count on it.

ikiru36
04-06-2008, 09:24 AM
I know that the way it was announced doesn't necessarily tip his hand but given that UNC has already announced its intent to retire Hans jersey, it seems weird his playing another entire season. I realize that they simply tied it to his receiving a National Player of the Year award, but it was still a bizarre thing to officially announce during the Junior season of a player who then stays for four years (should he stay).
(on a side note, given that the stated criteria wasn't even Consensus NPOY, Rasheed Wallace and a few other former peeps might wanna know why Hans-roseycheeks received an honor denied them?)
It's certainly no more than a clue as I can imagine opposing arguments (that he will stay) based upon the same information, but I do think that the timing of this announcement during this past season means something.

As for Lawson, I think that he was pretty definitely planning to leave after this year when the season began but as Roy clearly struggles to develop guards whom he's recruited at Carolina :), Lawson's draft status has only slipped with each passing year thusfar (Ellington's too, actually. Dang you, Roy!). Ty, return again at your own risk!

Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!! Go Blue Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

budwom
04-06-2008, 09:35 AM
Just Q....

Tyler and Ty have both been said many times that they wont consider leaving until they win a NC. Plus considering how badly they played, there is no way any player on that team deserves a lottery pick. I'd be surprised if even one Carolina player is even projected in the first round

I understand your thought process, but I believe after four years they'll MAKE them leave....NC title or not...

JasonEvans
04-06-2008, 09:55 AM
Can Lawson turn down 2+ million (lottery pick?) for a CHANCE to win it all.

(snip)

Now throw in Tyler Zeller, Ed Davis and Larry Drew. If just one of those can step in and play as well as a Singler - I wouldn't be surprised to see a final four appearance.

Lawson is not a lottery pick, though he is close. He is generally projected as a mid-first rounder. I've seen him as low as about 22 and as high as 15 in mock drafts. He'd have to go around #10 or #11 to make $2 million his rookie season.

No one projects Zeller, Davis, or Drew to be nearly the impact player that Singler was -- not even in the same ballpark. None of them are ranked nearly as high as Singler was nor are any of them presumed to be nearly as ready as Singler was. Additionally, the 2008 high school class is significantly weakerr than the strong 2007 class. A kid who is just top 20ish in 2008 would probably just be a top-40 or 50 kinda player if he was in the 2007 class or 2009 class.

What's more, Zeller and Davis are big men who can probably expect to be little more than backups to Stephenson and Thompson next year. Drew is the lowest ranked of the 3 and, as a PG, will only get minutes when Frasor is sitting next season. Heck, I don't think anyone would be hugely surprised if Roy gave Ginyard more minutes at the PG than he givs Drew next season.

That said, Carolina will again be a very strong team. Even if they lose all 3 of Hasbro, Ellington, and Lawson (and I hear Ellington is all but gone for sure while the other two are still unknown) they will have a strong roster with heaps of size. Thier worst case scenario is --


PG- Frasor 6-3 with a nice outside shot
SG- Ginyard 6-5 with stud defensive abilities
SF- Green 6-5 and an All-ACC Player next year if he is a starter
PF- Thompson 6-9 with a lot of potential to be a scorer inside
C- Stephenson 6-9 with potential to dominate as a shot blocker
Bench- 3 freshmen (Ed Davis will be the best) plus Graves and Copeland

--Jason "that's a pretty good team-- top 4 in the ACC probably-- and that is the worst-case scenario" Evans

JasonEvans
04-06-2008, 10:01 AM
I understand your thought process, but I believe after four years they'll MAKE them leave....NC title or not...

Alert the media-- we have a budwom sighting!!!

Dude, you MUST hang out here more often!!

--Jason "you wanna talk old-time DBR names, Budwom is one of the first!" Evans

budwom
04-06-2008, 10:05 AM
No better time to be with friends, Jason, than after a Tarheel meltdown on national TV.

OZZIE4DUKE
04-06-2008, 10:13 AM
I have been telling my wife that I had no clue what hanstravel was majoring in, in college. He has shot like a million free throws and that is when they usually show it but I have never seen it. Well tonight I finally saw that he majors in communications. As soon as we saw that my wife asked me if hooked on phonics is considered communications.....I proceeded to spit my drink out haha....:)

Funniest line I've read on DBR in quite a while. Worthy of something the FITS might say!

Back to the topic at hand, I think Lawson is gone. Rumors last month that his ankle took so long to heal because his dad wouldn't let him play until he was 100% tells me they were looking ahead to his pro career, not helping the holes win this year.

Most NBA careers are time (age) limited. With Hanstravel being as old as he is, if he doesn't go pro now he'll be nearing retirement age when he finally does go to the league :rolleyes: And since he was called for both fouls and a travel last night, his Teflon shield seems to be wearing off in college. Time to go, Tyler, take my word for it ;)

If these two players go, Wayne Ellington might as well, but I think he'll stay. His shining moment was the first Clemson game when he hit the game winner and scored like 75 points (OK, I think it was 32). He is a great athlete, but if he stays (and the others go) next year's POY in the ACC (and nationally) could come down to Gerald, Kyle and Ellington. I think Ellington will be back.

Troublemaker
04-06-2008, 10:49 AM
Regardless, if UNC brings back Hansbrough, I believe they'll still be a GREAT team even without Lawson and Ellington. :eek:

Hansbrough (can you imagine him with another year of hard work???)
Thompson
Stepheson
Ginyard
Frazier (starting point guard)
Green (starting in place of Ellington)

Now throw in Tyler Zeller, Ed Davis and Larry Drew. If just one of those can step in and play as well as a Singler - I wouldn't be surprised to see a final four appearance.

That's actually a pretty sizable understatement, I think. One major theme of next season is that it's going to be a "down season" for college basketball. Almost all of the great players from the tremendous high school classes of '06 (Oden, Durant, et al) and '07 (Beasley, Love, et al) will be in the NBA. Even the '06 guys that stuck around for their sophomore seasons (Lopez twins, Arthur, Westbrook, etc) will be gone.

I am hoping that Duke can take advantage of this depleted landscape to develop into the best team, but if UNC returns everyone to take advantage of it instead, then I'm just not going to watch much college basketball next season, outside of the occasional Duke game. UNC, with everyone back, should be a favorite against the field because there won't be a Kansas, Memphis, or UCLA around to stop them. So, yeah, it's important that we see a UNC defection or two.

davekay1971
04-06-2008, 10:54 AM
I am hoping that Duke can take advantage of this depleted landscape to develop into the best team, but if UNC returns everyone to take advantage of it instead, then I'm just not going to watch much college basketball next season, outside of the occasional Duke game. UNC, with everyone back, should be a favorite against the field because there won't be a Kansas, Memphis, or UCLA around to stop them. So, yeah, it's important that we see a UNC defection or two.

If UNC returns everyone, I'll still be watching plenty of hoops, because Duke gave Carolina every bit as good as we got, and we're returning everyone except Nelson. I'm not going to roll over and hand the ACC to the 'holes just because they return Pstrolling T, Lawson, and Ellington, and I doubt the team will either.

Troublemaker
04-06-2008, 10:59 AM
UNC next season:

Everyone stays = favorite against the field or close
Only Lawson goes = pre-season #1
Only Ellington goes = I don't see this happening, but preseason #1
Only Hansbrough goes = I don't see him leaving in any scenario, but a top 5 team
Everyone goes = probably a pipe dream, but still a good team
2 out of 3 leave = still a good team
Lawson and Ellington leave, Hansbrough stays = my dream scenario, as I want another shot at Hansbrough, but without his helpers, haha

If I had to bet on what happens, I'd take only Lawson leaving.

IMO.

JasonEvans
04-06-2008, 10:59 AM
If UNC returns everyone, I'll still be watching plenty of hoops, because Duke gave Carolina every bit as good as we got, and we're returning everyone except Nelson. I'm not going to roll over and hand the ACC to the 'holes just because they return Pstrolling T, Lawson, and Ellington, and I doubt the team will either.

I am firmly convinced we were as good as them for most of this season and we return just about everyone (we'll miss Markie, but everyone else gets older and better). There is no reason we won't be able to compete quite well with whatever Carolina puts on the floor next year.

--Jason "also, someone indicated that Ellington was likely to stay-- that is the opposite of what I am hearing. He's the most likely to leave, I think" Evans

BD80
04-06-2008, 11:01 AM
One more year will NOT help Hans' draft position unless next year is a weak draft for bigs. Another year would just give scouts more time to pick out his flaws. Another year at UNC would not help him as a pro, because he his physically mature (23) and his game has pretty much peaked and plateaued. His lower draft status will allow him to go to a good team where he can be a valuable role player and contend for championships.

That said, I think he stays to set all of UNC's records and to try to be the first back-to-back player of the year since Oscar and another shot at the NC. The chance to be Carolina's best player ever (statistically speaking) over Jordan, Worthy, Daugherty, Perkins, Jamison, Montross, Swicker, Akulaja, Hayworth, et al is an ego trip many would like to take.

The issue is not giving up a year of rookie salary, but rather losing a year out of one's pro career, arguably a higher earning year. While another year in school makes you a year older, does it really shorten your career by a year? Look at Mutumbo, he didn't start in the league until he was 40, and he is still going strong as he approaches 60.

Olympic Fan
04-06-2008, 11:15 AM
That said, I think he stays to set all of UNC's records and to try to be the first back-to-back player of the year since Oscar and another shot at the NC.

"the first back-to-back player of the year since Oscar"?

What about Jerry Lucas, consensus national player of the year in 1961 and 1962 (right after Oscar)? How about Bill Walton, consensus NPOY in 1972 and 1973 (amazing, Alcindor won in 1967 and 1969, but was not back-to-back since Elvin Hayes won it in 1968).

Then there's Ralph Sampson, who was a THREE-time consensus NPOY in 1981, 1982 and 1983.

You could get away with saying "the first back-to-back player of the year since Sampson" although there have been several guys since then who won significant national player of the year awards in their next-to-last year, then won concensus honors in their final years -- including both Jason Williams (the NABC Award in 2001, concensus in 2002) and J.J. Redick (Rupp Award in 2005, concensus in 2006).

As for Carolina defections -- a lot of wishing and hoping on this thread. None of us have a clue. But I want them all to come back .... it would be that much sweeter when we beat them next year.

BD80
04-06-2008, 11:23 AM
next year's POY in the ACC (and nationally) could come down to Gerald, Kyle and Ellington.

For the national player of the year, I think the early favorites would have to include Stephon Curry, Luke Harangody, DeJaun Blair, and Kosta Koufas (Ohio State). The way he played for 15 minutes last night, throw KU's Aldrich into the mix :) Any chance Brandon Rush stays for his senior year?

arnie
04-06-2008, 11:25 AM
Lawson is not a lottery pick, though he is close. He is generally projected as a mid-first rounder. I've seen him as low as about 22 and as high as 15 in mock drafts. He'd have to go around #10 or #11 to make $2 million his rookie season.

No one projects Zeller, Davis, or Drew to be nearly the impact player that Singler was -- not even in the same ballpark. None of them are ranked nearly as high as Singler was nor are any of them presumed to be nearly as ready as Singler was. Additionally, the 2008 high school class is significantly weakerr than the strong 2007 class. A kid who is just top 20ish in 2008 would probably just be a top-40 or 50 kinda player if he was in the 2007 class or 2009 class.

What's more, Zeller and Davis are big men who can probably expect to be little more than backups to Stephenson and Thompson next year. Drew is the lowest ranked of the 3 and, as a PG, will only get minutes when Frasor is sitting next season. Heck, I don't think anyone would be hugely surprised if Roy gave Ginyard more minutes at the PG than he givs Drew next season.

That said, Carolina will again be a very strong team. Even if they lose all 3 of Hasbro, Ellington, and Lawson (and I hear Ellington is all but gone for sure while the other two are still unknown) they will have a strong roster with heaps of size. Thier worst case scenario is --


PG- Frasor 6-3 with a nice outside shot
SG- Ginyard 6-5 with stud defensive abilities
SF- Green 6-5 and an All-ACC Player next year if he is a starter
PF- Thompson 6-9 with a lot of potential to be a scorer inside
C- Stephenson 6-9 with potential to dominate as a shot blocker
Bench- 3 freshmen (Ed Davis will be the best) plus Graves and Copeland

--Jason "that's a pretty good team-- top 4 in the ACC probably-- and that is the worst-case scenario" Evans


Don't agree with your assessment of Green - if the stars leave, then players will defensively pay attention to Green. He was the recepient of wide open shots thanks to Hanblow and Ellington producing. I jdon't think Green is a star on a normal team.

Jumbo
04-06-2008, 11:31 AM
Folks,
Just look at the early entry lists from the past several years. The concept of "unfinished" business hardly ever keeps a player in college. Sure, there are a few exceptions, and I could see Hansbrough being another. But almost all basketball players dream about the NBA far more than college hoops. We've seen first-hand how players can jump to the NBA without a first-round promise. The number of players from other schools who made the leap without a prayer is staggering. Sure, some players return to work on their games and improve their stock, but plenty jump at the first chance they get. Comments made in the immediate aftermath of a Tourney loss have been shown to mean next to nothing. I will be shocked if Lawson stays, despite the fact that he'll be in a much stronger position with next year's point guard crop. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Hansbrough or Ellington left. (I'm actually a big fan of Ellington's pro potential, despite supposed concerns about his size and "athleticism.") The initial sting of any tough loss will fade, and there's a lot of time between now and the deadline -- time during which players on the fence tend to hop over it.

BD80
04-06-2008, 11:31 AM
"the first back-to-back player of the year since Oscar"?



Sorry, my sarcasm font wasn't on. I think you made my point, he has a chance to be listed in the same breath with some of the greatest college players of all time. He won't be that great as a pro, so this is his chance for immortality. Of course, if he goes to the Pacers, he has a shot at immorality.

ArtVandelay
04-06-2008, 12:25 PM
--Jason "also, someone indicated that Ellington was likely to stay-- that is the opposite of what I am hearing. He's the most likely to leave, I think" Evans

What's your source for this, Jason? This is surprising to me, as I think of Ellington as the least NBA-ready of those three guys. My instinct was that Lawson would be most likely to leave and Ellington least likely, with Hansbrough somewhere in between.

MChambers
04-06-2008, 12:48 PM
My uninformed opinion is that Lawson is likely to go - from what I've heard he gave it some pretty serious thought last year as well. He'll be a 10-15 pick in the draft IMO.

Ellington I think stays. I just don't think he'd be a first-round lock at this point - perhaps next year.

Hansbrough is the borderline case. I could totally see him coming back, but I really do think he'd be picked around #20, I don't think he'll improve significantly on that next year, and he's going to be ready for retirement within a few years. I wouldn't be surprised either way there.

Green is of course staying.

Is that I really don't know if Lawson, Ellington, and Hansbrough have done anything but lower their draft positions by staying in school. Maybe Ol' Roy can't develop his players?

Obviously, I don't believe that, but it is interesting how three very good players seem to have not improved their pro potential the last two years. Probably says more about the failings of the NBA draft, reaching for "upside" all the time.

Kdogg
04-06-2008, 01:02 PM
The NBA allows a one time test period for college players so Tyler, Lawson, Ellington and Green all should put their names in the draft. If they do not like their draft status they can opt out. For Tyler and Green there is no downside (except expenses ) because they will not be able to do this in the future. If Roy really has the player's best interest in mind he has to tell Tyler to at least put his name in the draft.

I like Lawson and Ellington are gone. I have no idea about Tyler.

freedevil
04-06-2008, 01:04 PM
One thing that may weigh on all of these kids' minds is this: they were the #1 overall seed in the tourney, preseason pick to win it all, had all the tools to win it all... and fell short. Do you pass up hordes of money and the dream to play with the big kids for a chance to have the same result?

Duvall
04-06-2008, 01:04 PM
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Hansbrough or Ellington left. (I'm actually a big fan of Ellington's pro potential, despite supposed concerns about his size and "athleticism.")

Really? I thought 6'3" shooting guards were NBA poison. What makes Ellington different?

freedevil
04-06-2008, 01:06 PM
^ Monta Ellis. Ellington could easily be a Monta Ellis type player.

bballfan
04-06-2008, 01:28 PM
I know that the way it was announced doesn't necessarily tip his hand but given that UNC has already announced its intent to retire Hans jersey, it seems weird his playing another entire season. I realize that they simply tied it to his receiving a National Player of the Year award, but it was still a bizarre thing to officially announce during the Junior season of a player who then stays for four years (should he stay).
(on a side note, given that the stated criteria wasn't even Consensus NPOY, Rasheed Wallace and a few other former peeps might wanna know why Hans-roseycheeks received an honor denied them?)
It's certainly no more than a clue as I can imagine opposing arguments (that he will stay) based upon the same information, but I do think that the timing of this announcement during this past season means something.

As for Lawson, I think that he was pretty definitely planning to leave after this year when the season began but as Roy clearly struggles to develop guards whom he's recruited at Carolina :), Lawson's draft status has only slipped with each passing year thusfar (Ellington's too, actually. Dang you, Roy!). Ty, return again at your own risk!

Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!! Go Blue Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


UNC's Athletic Council policy states that a student-athlete must be the national player of the year to have his or her jersey number retired. In men's basketball, a student-athlete must win one of the following six player of the year awards: the Oscar Robertson Trophy (selected by the United States Basketball Writers Association of America), the National Association of Basketball Coaches; the Associated Press; The Sporting News; the Naismith Award (presented by the Atlanta Tipoff Club); and the John R. Wooden Award (presented by the Los Angeles Athletic Club).

They announced that hansbro would have his jersey retired after he won the sporting news award.. Stackhouse won npoy in1995 from SI, which is not on the list for unc. i guess it was pretty much automatic after Hansbro won the sporting news npoy. They also have about a million "honored' jerseys in the smith center rafters but only the jerseys on the front row are "retired'... Kinda silly. needless to say I dont think unc announcing hansbro jersey being retired has anything to do with him leaving early or staying

dukie8
04-06-2008, 01:29 PM
One more year will NOT help Hans' draft position unless next year is a weak draft for bigs. Another year would just give scouts more time to pick out his flaws. Another year at UNC would not help him as a pro, because he his physically mature (23) and his game has pretty much peaked and plateaued. His lower draft status will allow him to go to a good team where he can be a valuable role player and contend for championships.

That said, I think he stays to set all of UNC's records and to try to be the first back-to-back player of the year since Oscar and another shot at the NC. The chance to be Carolina's best player ever (statistically speaking) over Jordan, Worthy, Daugherty, Perkins, Jamison, Montross, Swicker, Akulaja, Hayworth, et al is an ego trip many would like to take.

The issue is not giving up a year of rookie salary, but rather losing a year out of one's pro career, arguably a higher earning year. While another year in school makes you a year older, does it really shorten your career by a year? Look at Mutumbo, he didn't start in the league until he was 40, and he is still going strong as he approaches 60.

i don't agree with this assessment at all. next year's draft is going to be considerably weaker as this year's freshman class is loaded (i don't need to waste anyone's time listing out the long list of studs who likely will be going pro from it). i watched a chunk of the mcd aa game and there is a considerably drop-off in talent coming in next year. even if hans doesn't improve next year, he will get drafted higher next year purely because there will be so much less talent in that draft.

secondly, how can you say that his game has plateaued? he just recently started shooting (and hitting) from the outside. a summer of working on 3-point shooting (a la laettner) would most definiately improve his game. moreover, most of his scoring comes from muscling his way to the basket which, i think is pretty obvious by now, won't work in the nba where the guys are so much bigger. someone like love already has a nice repetoire of these moves (did you see the end of the texas a&m game?) a summer of working on nba post moves would help him tremendously. lastly, his defense is average at best. once again, another summer focusing on improving his defense would help him.

i do think that hans's situation is pretty unique as far as the draft goes. his dad is a surgeon so his family clearly doesn't need the money. he also is flirting with re-writing the record books at unc and, unlike most other players, actually cares about that stuff. i don't know this but, he also actually may like being in school at unc. there are worse things in the world than being the bmoc at a place like unc and playing on national tv every week.

i know that there have been some other players from similar financial backgrounds who went early (dunleavy jumps to mind) but i don't recall any of them being projected as a mid to late first rounder (dunleavy knew he was going top 3). moreover, none of them was flirting with all-time greatness at unc. grant hill came from plenty of money, liked being in school, knew that he would be a top pick and he nonetheless came back every year so it's not unprecendented (we all know that coming back for his senior year paid nice dividends).

whether he comes back or not next year, it is safe to conclude that he is going to make a lot of money in the nba because even the bench guys get paid handsomely. it's just a question of whether he wants that income stream to start in '08 or '09.

Jumbo
04-06-2008, 01:30 PM
^ Monta Ellis. Ellington could easily be a Monta Ellis type player.

Nah, they're not similar at all. Monta is freakishly quick with great hops, and is more of a combo guard than Ellington. But to answer Duvall's original question, Ellington is 6'4", which isn't total poision. He's a fantastic shooter and is quicker and a better leaper than he gets credit for. His handle is pretty darn good, too. What I like is that he doesn't need much space to release his shot and he has already demonstrated a knack for nailing mid-range jumpers, step-backs, etc. In other words, he is a pure shooter with an ability to score in a variety of ways, and will be very effective coming off screens. That will help minimize the impact of the inch or two he gives up to most opponents.

MChambers
04-06-2008, 02:36 PM
I have been telling my wife that I had no clue what hanstravel was majoring in, in college. He has shot like a million free throws and that is when they usually show it but I have never seen it. Well tonight I finally saw that he majors in communications. As soon as we saw that my wife asked me if hooked on phonics is considered communications.....I proceeded to spit my drink out haha....:)

There was at least one player in the first game majoring in communication studies. My kids asked me what that meant, and I didn't really know, so I looked up UNC's description. Draw your own conclusions:

Department of Communication Studies
by admin-vedawms — last modified 2008-03-06 11:08

"Communication Studies at UNC-CH

Through teaching, research, and service, the Department of Communication Studies: addresses the many ways communication functions to create, sustain, and transform personal life, social relations, political institutions, economic organizations, and cultural and aesthetic conventions in society; promotes competencies required for various modes of mediated and nonmediated communication; and develops skills for analyzing, interpreting, and critiquing communication problems and questions."

MIKESJ73
04-06-2008, 03:27 PM
This is the latest from NBAdraft.net on the final four teams. They are up to the minute with their updates.

Likely to leave:

Arthur and Rush, Kansas
Collison, Love, Westbrook, UCLA
Lawson and Ellington, UNC
Rose and C.Douglas Roberts, Memphis

On the fence:

Chamers, Kansas
Hansblow, UNC
Moute and Shipp, UCLA

Seniors:

Thomas, UNC
Kaun, Jackson, and Robinson, Kansas
Mata-Real, UCLA
Dorsey, Memphis

I hope they are all gone. They list Henderson and Singler in "most likely returning" list.

mgtr
04-06-2008, 03:49 PM
I have no idea what exactly Communications means at UNC, but at the universities where I do know, it is the modern equivalent of Physical Education. In other words, that is where you go when you can't pass any tough courses. A lot of colleges have a "safe" major with easy courses, and frequently it is Communications. Interestingly, I know that Stanford had such a major in the early sixties (that was my roommate's major).
In fairness to athletes, however, they are "working" at a job in addition to being full-time students, and don't have the time to study that others do. It is always amazing to me when you see a college athlete listed as "electrical engineering" or "astrophysics." They must be wonderful time organizers as well as being smart.

Troublemaker
04-06-2008, 04:14 PM
This is the latest from NBAdraft.net on the final four teams. They are up to the minute with their updates.

Likely to leave:

Arthur and Rush, Kansas
Collison, Love, Westbrook, UCLA
Lawson and Ellington, UNC
Rose and C.Douglas Roberts, Memphis


Do you have a link because I can't find this info on their site? Thanks. Regardless, I don't think I trust NBAdraft.net very much.

MIKESJ73
04-06-2008, 04:18 PM
Link
http://www.nbadraft.net/2008earlyentry.asp

It isn't an article on the final four teams, just the sites' lists. I just listed the players from the final four.

Jumbo
04-06-2008, 04:20 PM
Do you have a link because I can't find this info on their site? Thanks. Regardless, I don't think I trust NBAdraft.net very much.

Nor should you. NBADraft.net has developed decent sources over the years, but it's still very much a fan site. This far away from the draft, it usually isn't very good.

BD80
04-06-2008, 04:35 PM
i don't agree with this assessment at all. next year's draft is going to be considerably weaker as this year's freshman class is loaded ... i watched a chunk of the mcd aa game and there is a considerably drop-off in talent coming in next year. even if hans doesn't improve next year, he will get drafted higher next year purely because there will be so much less talent in that draft.

secondly, how can you say that his game has plateaued? he just recently started shooting (and hitting) from the outside. a summer of working on 3-point shooting (a la laettner) would most definiately improve his game. ... a summer of working on nba post moves would help him tremendously. lastly, his defense is average at best. once again, another summer focusing on improving his defense would help him.



I agree with your assessment of draft classes based upon the freshmen classes, but it all depends on who declares and who stays, particularly with big men.

My point is that at 23, it is not likely for Hans to develop an outside shot, learn to play defense or develop post moves, at least enough to overcome the negativity that seems to cluster around a 4th year guy - familiarity breeds contempt. Even if he developed a shot (he was 0 for 7 this year for 3), Roy would be a fool to take Hans away from the basket (except to pull Zoubek out when he is dominating the heels next year:) ) The plateau is that he has gone from 18.9 ppg to 22.6 ppg and from 7.8 rpg to 10.2 rpg over 3 years. His game hasn't expanded from freshmen year to now. Where does he go from there?

There was a point in the Kansas game when Hans stopped getting the ridiculous calls. Refs may tune out his gamesmanship - like the first charge he drew against Aldrich where Hans literally went airborne. It has happened to Duke guys in the past in similar circumstances. If refs pay attention to his feet (ie traveling and not getting position on the block/charge), his performance level could take a dramatic downturn. We agree he will stay, I just think there is a significant risk to his draft position if he stays.

yancem
04-06-2008, 06:19 PM
I have nothing but my gut to go by but I think that Lawson and Ellington declare which may induce Hansolo to declare also. It would be amusing if Green decided to go as well but I would think that he will get good enough advice to stay.

My reasoning with Lawson is in part do to his injuries this year but I also think that he risks lowering his stock. I know that next year's draft will most likely be weaker than this years but I'm not sure exactly how good Lawson is. If he comes back and doesn't show a reasonable improvement than he becomes a quick but undersized point guard with a mediocre shot. Teams seem to put a lot of stock in potential but after 3 years of college ball, potential starts to turn into reality. I think that is a big part of why McRoberts left last year.

Ellington is different. I think that he could really help his draft status by coming back. I don't think that he is a guaranteed first rounder this year and the weaker draft and a strong year next season could make a difference. All that being said I get the impression that he was planning on staying for 2 years and won't change his mind. I could be misreading him but that's the way it seems to me.

Hansolo simply needs to decide what he wants his legacy to be. Coming back doesn't guarantee another final four run much less a NC (even if everyone stays). If he comes back it should be to set some records (any team success would be icing on the cake so to speak) and enjoy being a college student for one more year because I don't think it will change is draft status or his career trajectory very much.

Green has no business declaring for the draft. If he want to test the waters since he can without penalty, than I see nothing wrong with it but I can't imagine anyone advising him that he would be a first round pick. He was the 6th man as a junior. That doesn't scream high draft pick to me.

MIKESJ73
04-06-2008, 06:51 PM
I'm not so sure next year will be considered a weaker draft. This year there are 10 freshman projected in the lottery:
1. Michael Beasley 6-9 235 SF K.St. Fr.
2. Derrick Rose 6-3 195 PG Memphis Fr.
3. Jerryd Bayless 6-3 182 PG Arizona Fr.
4. OJ Mayo 6-4 210 SG USC Fr.
5. Eric Gordon 6-4 220 SG Indiana Fr.
6. Blake Griffin 6-9 243 PF Oklahoma Fr.
7. DeAndre Jordan 7-0 250 C TX A&M Fr.
8. Anthony Randolph 6-10 200 SF LSU Fr.
9. Kevin Love 6-9 260 PF UCLA Fr.
10.Donte Greene 6-10 226 SF Syr. Fr.
Next year, who knows?

ugadevil
04-06-2008, 07:21 PM
I have no idea what exactly Communications means at UNC, but at the universities where I do know, it is the modern equivalent of Physical Education. In other words, that is where you go when you can't pass any tough courses. A lot of colleges have a "safe" major with easy courses, and frequently it is Communications. Interestingly, I know that Stanford had such a major in the early sixties (that was my roommate's major).


As someone who has majored in communications and is about to graduate...whatever. I've sat through countless presentations and heard numerous interviews where it's obvious that more people need to be taking communications classes in college. You could make an argument about TONS of majors that don't have tough courses.


Nah, they're not similar at all. Monta is freakishly quick with great hops, and is more of a combo guard than Ellington. But to answer Duvall's original question, Ellington is 6'4", which isn't total poision. He's a fantastic shooter and is quicker and a better leaper than he gets credit for. His handle is pretty darn good, too. What I like is that he doesn't need much space to release his shot and he has already demonstrated a knack for nailing mid-range jumpers, step-backs, etc. In other words, he is a pure shooter with an ability to score in a variety of ways, and will be very effective coming off screens. That will help minimize the impact of the inch or two he gives up to most opponents.

Jumbo, your description of Ellington sounds more like a Richard Hamilton type player to me. Would he be a more accurate pro-version of Ellington?

mgtr
04-06-2008, 07:26 PM
As someone who has majored in communications and is about to graduate...whatever. I've sat through countless presentations and heard numerous interviews where it's obvious that more people need to be taking communications classes in college. You could make an argument about TONS of majors that don't have tough courses.

I agree completely. There are many corporate executives who, while smart, have no clue how to present the facts cogently and effectively. I have written speeches for big shots because they have no sense of how to put a presentation together. Left to their own devices, half the audience is asleep in 10 minutes.

freedevil
04-06-2008, 08:18 PM
Correct me if my calculations are faulty, but someone would have to give up a scholarship in order for all of their players to return, right?

3 recruits.

10 players with eligibility remaining.

Channing
04-06-2008, 08:41 PM
on top of a chance to rewrite UNC history, if he comes back, there is a good chance Hans will break JJ's ACC scoring record.

Troublemaker
04-06-2008, 08:48 PM
Correct me if my calculations are faulty, but someone would have to give up a scholarship in order for all of their players to return, right?

3 recruits.

10 players with eligibility remaining.

No. Maximum is 13 schollies, not 12.

freedevil
04-06-2008, 08:49 PM
^ Ah.

CDu
04-06-2008, 11:27 PM
Jumbo, your description of Ellington sounds more like a Richard Hamilton type player to me. Would he be a more accurate pro-version of Ellington?

The comparison of Ellington and Hamilton has one major difference: Hamilton is 6'7", Ellington is 6'3" or 6'4". Hamilton is also a tireless runner and phenomenal at using screens. Ellington has yet to show that ability/talent (doesn't mean he doesn't have it - just that he hasn't shown it yet).

In terms of their skills, Ellington probably has a better 3-point shot than Hamilton (Hamilton is more of a mid-range shooter), but Hamilton is almost certainly better in the mid-range game. Further, Ellington will probably have a bit more trouble getting shots off in the mid-range (even though he has a good mid-range shot too) due to the height difference.

I think that's the type of role Ellington might play, but I don't know that Hamilton is a fair pro version of Ellington.

Jumbo
04-07-2008, 12:15 AM
Jumbo, your description of Ellington sounds more like a Richard Hamilton type player to me. Would he be a more accurate pro-version of Ellington?

Cdu mentioned this already, but the size difference means they aren't carbon copies. That said, I can see Ellington being utilitzed in a similar way as Hamilton. Ray Allen isn't much taller than Ellington, but was more effective at creating his own shot coming out of college. If he can be a poor man's Allen, that would be an excellent accomplishment for Ellington.

BD80
04-07-2008, 12:44 AM
... I can see Ellington being utilitzed in a similar way as Hamilton. Ray Allen isn't much taller than Ellington, but was more effective at creating his own shot coming out of college. If he can be a poor man's Allen, that would be an excellent accomplishment for Ellington.

You are talking about two of the best shooters in the NBA in the last 20 years or so (not the Steve Kerr "if there is nobody near me I can make it from anywhere" kind of shooter) in Rip and Ray. I haven't seen anything from Ellington to put him in that strata.

There are a lot of different ways to get shots off in the NBA, height, elevation and quickness chief among them. I don't see Ellington excelling at the next level right away, but I could see him developing a really quick release with good elevation - much like Ray Allen. Will he ever shoot like Ray Allen? Nope. If you will call Ray Felton a poor man's Chris Paul, I guess I could give you Ellington as a poor man's Ray Allen.

Huh?
04-07-2008, 08:53 AM
If JJ isn't playing, Ellington can forget it.

CDu
04-07-2008, 09:44 AM
You are talking about two of the best shooters in the NBA in the last 20 years or so (not the Steve Kerr "if there is nobody near me I can make it from anywhere" kind of shooter) in Rip and Ray. I haven't seen anything from Ellington to put him in that strata.

There are a lot of different ways to get shots off in the NBA, height, elevation and quickness chief among them. I don't see Ellington excelling at the next level right away, but I could see him developing a really quick release with good elevation - much like Ray Allen. Will he ever shoot like Ray Allen? Nope. If you will call Ray Felton a poor man's Chris Paul, I guess I could give you Ellington as a poor man's Ray Allen.

Yes, and those two players are among the best players in the NBA. Just because Ellington may not be as good a shooter as those guys (right now) doesn't mean he won't play a similar type of game. He could be a (potentially very) poor man's version of Ray Allen, playing the same style but much less effectively.

Also, I wouldn't go so far as to completely rule out the possibility that Ellington can hone his shot to the point that he's in Allen's territory. Is it likely? No. But it is possible. Ellington could make the adjustments that he hasn't had to make in college once he gets to the next level, and focus on specific moves/skills to make them effective in the NBA style of play.

IStillHateJimBain
04-07-2008, 10:13 AM
Have any of these guys been blowing off classes or mailing it in? That's usually a pretty good indicator.

Franzez
04-07-2008, 10:17 AM
My Predictions:
Tyler Hansbrough returns for his Sr. season mainly because his draft stock isnt going to improve into the teens this year,and because next year's weak draft class complimented with another good POY season by him could get him into the lottery anywhere between 8-12.

Wayne Ellington enters the NBA Draft because although he is a crucial member of the team,some of the Mock Drafts I've seen now consider him as a 1st Round Pick in the 20's and because his stock wont get any higher than it is right now after having some good performances during the season and postseason,also his age brings up potential for him because NBA teams will draft him higher at age 20 than they will at age 22 because of Potential.I think his status though will be influenced by Ty Lawson because if Lawson declares,Ellington can get more shots but if Lawson returns Ellington's minitues will probably be cut to give playing time to Larry Drew,Marcus Ginyard,and Danny Green at the SG position.

Ty Lawson will most likely test the waters and wait to see how this PG class shakes out because if he enters too early and a lot of other quality PG's enter he could be costing himself a lot of draft position.He'll likely declare early and wait for guys such as Derrick Rose,DJ Augustin,Darren Collison,Johnny Flynn,Jamont Gordon,Mario Chalmers,Sherron Collins,and Lester Hudson to officially announce their plans for next season.If at the most 3 of these PG's listed declares for the NBA Draft,Lawson will probably stay in but if at the least 5 of these guys listed above enters Lawson should return for his Jr. season.

Danny Green has the size,and strength to be a solid swingman in the NBA and I think its very possible he could delcare for the Draft because of family issues in which apparently his father recently was released from Prison.Green at this point depending on how the draft class shakes out could impress a team enough to earn himself a gurantee in the late 1st Round or early 2nd Round.

The wildcard in this entire thing which I havent read to see if it's even been discussed is Deon Thompson who is between a rock and a hard place in Carolina's lineup next season being that Carolina is bringing in 2 McDonald's All-Americans in the front court in Ed Davis who's a SF/PF and Tyler Zeller who's a C but even if he somehow keeps his roster spot hes got the 6'10 Wear twins and 6'10 John Henson coming in 2009 to completely remove him from any rotation.Thompson has good size at 6'9 245 but if he can go to a draft camp and show some atleticism and show some ability he could get a selection in the 2nd Round as a Carl Landry type of player.

Chitowndevil
04-07-2008, 10:49 AM
I'd bet a good amount of money that Hansbrough is gone. His draft stock is not going to get any higher, and as several others have pointed out in this thread he's already pretty old by NBA rookie standards. Besides, the skills he needs to work on for the NBA, primarily a 12-17 foot jump shot and guarding the 3 position, aren't things he's generally going to get to work on in game situations in college.

Lawson could go either way. If his ankle is 100% he's good enough to play. But this year's draft is loaded at PG: no way he is going ahead of Rose, Bayless, Augustin, Collison, Westbrook, or Chalmers. I anticipate both Lawson and Ellington will be back.

whereinthehellami
04-07-2008, 11:03 AM
Ellington's shooting would be a big loss for the heeels if he does go pro. They got plenty of size but are somewhat thin in the shooting deparment. They got a PG and two bigs guys coming in next year. No shooters.

CDu
04-07-2008, 11:07 AM
Lawson: I think Lawson will be better served staying at Carolina, but I don't know if he will or not. The Kansas game showed a lot of Lawson's limitations. If you keep him from running straight to the rim, he's just not very effective. He's not a great passer and has little half-court offense. His game is predicated on outrunning defenders who either lack the athleticism or the preparedness to stay with him. While people knock the NBA and say there's no defense (which is an incorrect assessment, I think), the players are much more athletic, much taller on average, and much more prepared to stop transition. Because of the size and athleticism in the NBA, there are very few teams who can run-and-gun. And given that Lawson isn't a strong half-court player, the half-court game in the NBA doesn't bode well. It doesn't help that Rose, Bayless, Eric Gordon, and others may jump to the NBA and would rank ahead of Lawson in the draft. That all said, players make decisions for reasons other than draft stock all the time, so who knows?

Ellington: He has a niche that he might be able to match up with a team in the draft. And the feeling I get (note: this is like fifth/sixth hand and should not be given much weight) is that he wants to go pro. Again, players make decisions for strange reasons, so who knows?

Hansbrough: He's certainly a first-round pick if he goes. The question is whether he's a lottery pick. Among post players, he's probably behind Beasley, Love, Lopez, and maybe others, depending upon how many teams are concerned by his lack of size and the fact that he plays below the rim. And financially, he doesn't NEED to leave. I think his decision may hinge on the decisions of the other two above him. If they go, then the backcourt could be kind of thin next year (Frasor, Ginyard, Drew, Green?, Graves), making it less likely that he'd get another championship chance. If they stay, then he has a shot at a national championship and a decent chance to break the ACC scoring record.

Green: He's got an NBA body and NBA athleticism. Despite being the least accomplished of the "big four," he probably has the most draft "upside." The question will be whether he'll try to pull a Corey Maggette and go based on potential, or whether he'll come back and play his game.

Thompson: I don't see draft prospects for him currently. But if Hansbrough doesn't leave, there's going to be a HUGE minutes crunch inside. Hansbrough, Thompson, Stepheson, Davis, and Zeller. It could create the consideration of a transfer for him. Given that he's a California boy, he might ponder the idea.

Stepheson: Ditto all of the Thompson comments for Stepheson.

kmspeaks
04-07-2008, 11:22 AM
Tyler = Matt Leinart??

There are a lot of similarities between the two although Leinart did win a national championship. Maybe Tyler just loves being in school and wants to be a kid a little while longer.

freedevil
04-07-2008, 11:50 AM
I wonder how much Frasor's ACL injury will, if at all, factor in to these kids' decisions. UNC had been pretty immune from the injury bug for a few years there (McCants and May being the ones I can remember having minor injuries).

Franzez
04-07-2008, 01:20 PM
Ellington's shooting would be a big loss for the heeels if he does go pro. They got plenty of size but are somewhat thin in the shooting deparment. They got a PG and two bigs guys coming in next year. No shooters.
Larry Drew is a shooter.

He reminds me of Dominic James from Marquette with a better release.

sandinmyshoes
04-07-2008, 08:04 PM
Drew won the McDonald's three point shooting contest. But he is a small guy, so getting off a shot against a defense might be an issue.

Also, for whatever it is worth, it looks like nbadraft.net has all the UNC players off the board now. Don't know why or how reliable that site is, although I do know some people who think it's the best of that type.

hc5duke
04-07-2008, 08:33 PM
Tyler = Matt Leinart??

There are a lot of similarities between the two although Leinart did win a national championship. Maybe Tyler just loves being in school and wants to be a kid a little while longer.

I actually compared TH to Chris Weinke a while back. Leinart was 22 when he was drafted, which I think isn't really that old for an NFL rookie, whereas Weinke was 28.

Huh?
04-07-2008, 10:31 PM
Do NBA players play ping pong daily?

OZ
04-07-2008, 11:09 PM
Do NBA players play ping pong daily?



No; they have to study.

RelativeWays
04-08-2008, 12:16 AM
Hansbrough is gone. Ben Hansbrough that is. He's transferring from Miss St. Why? Didn't he start for them and hes just a sophmore right?

brevity
04-08-2008, 02:36 AM
Hansbrough is gone. Ben Hansbrough that is. He's transferring from Miss St. Why? Didn't he start for them and hes just a sophmore right?

Here's a link (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=cbask/news/AEN4143367.htm).

I can't help thinking he'll go to UNC just to torture us with a couple more years of that deer-in-headlights stare.

Salty Breezes
04-08-2008, 08:42 AM
Maybe it's just me, but if I've got three players on the fence about next year, I sure don't put a sticker of the team that just whooped us on my shirt on national TV.

God bless Roy Williams -- I couldn't ask for a better rival head coach. Gary was always fun to hate, Dean was annoying (and annoyingly good), but Roy, with his uncanny ability to rankle his own fans, is my favorite foil ever.

Here's hoping the 'holes are hopping mad at the Ol' boy today; I hope they hear it in every class (if they go to class).

TheDuke11
04-08-2008, 01:45 PM
looks like ty, ellington and hans have fallen off a few of the ole mock drafts like nba draft.net.
i'm hearing that ty is projected as a late 1st rounder, ellington as an early 2nd rounder and hans as a mid/late 1st rounder right now.

JasonEvans
04-08-2008, 02:46 PM
If JJ isn't playing, Ellington can forget it.

Right, because they are identical players. It is not like Ellington is quicker or has longer arms or better athleticism than JJ.

:rolleyes:

--Jason "also, JJ's career is far from over-- he'll be a significant player for Orlando or someone in the next year or two-- trust me" Evans

JasonEvans
04-08-2008, 03:00 PM
Larry Drew is a shooter.

He reminds me of Dominic James from Marquette with a better release.

Really? Everything you read about the kid is that he is a pass-first, score-second type of player and that he is not much of a shooter in games. Yeah, he won a 3-point shooting contest but that has very little to do with how he will perofrm in games.

James createed his own shot by getting into the lane and pulling up for jumpers. I really don't think that is Larry Drew's game -- though I have not seen him play yet so I could be wrong.

--Jason "I think Drew is gonna be a solid but hardly spectacular player at UNC and may not be a starter at any point in his career" Evans

banneheim
04-08-2008, 03:22 PM
I think the Kansas game showed NBA scouts how well Hansflopper would do in the NBA. With him creating all the contact against stronger players, his gameplay will not work in the NBA....I don't question his heart, his travels maybe won't get called but that shotput release will be sent back by stronger and taller players. Ellington, no way is a 1st rounder IMO. He is a great shooter but still streaky. Someone compared him to Monta Ellis-Ellington doesn't have the speed as Monta Ellis. Lawson, would probably be best served to test the waters and leave. He does need to develop a dependable jumpshot but NBA GMs drool over PGs with speed/handles/court vision. (maybe a top 15 pick). I don't think Green is a great player. When he doesn't have Lawson around or Hansflooper, he won't have the open threes. Did anyone else see a little of C-Well in Brandon' s Rush, not in their game but their roles????

JasonEvans
04-09-2008, 12:53 AM
Note-- several posts from this thread have been moved to the 2008 NBA Draft (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8489) thread because the posts did not relate to Carolina players and the draft.

-Jason "probably over-moderating, but that is what I get paid to do... wait, I don't get paid at all!!!" Evans

Cell-R
04-09-2008, 09:13 AM
I think it's very likely that Lawson will go pro, not so sure about the other two however.

Hansbrough doesn't have to go pro because of money issues, and, if I was him, I would stay just so I could break the records and hopefully get a NC.

I don't know much about Ellington, but I figure if Hansbrough goes, he will go. Maybe vice versa (hopefully) :)

When do they usually announce this by? :confused:

ArkieDukie
04-09-2008, 09:26 AM
Hansbrough is gone. Ben Hansbrough that is. He's transferring from Miss St. Why? Didn't he start for them and hes just a sophmore right?

Word on talk radio yesterday is that he and his family were upset about how Rick Stansbury treated them. They asked for complimentary tickets to an away game (can't remember which one), Stansbury said yes, and then there were no tickets for them once they traveled to the game. They had to buy tickets because Stansbury took MSU's entire allotment of tickets. Roy Williams, on the other hand, seated them prominently behind the UNC bench when they came to Carolina games. That's the story, anyway. Surely there's more to it than that; this sounds like a straw that broke the camel's back story to me.

(as an aside, Hansbrough family ... traveled to a game ... heh, heh, heh)

CDu
04-09-2008, 09:27 AM
I think it's very likely that Lawson will go pro, not so sure about the other two however.

Hansbrough doesn't have to go pro because of money issues, and, if I was him, I would stay just so I could break the records and hopefully get a NC.

I don't know much about Ellington, but I figure if Hansbrough goes, he will go. Maybe vice versa (hopefully) :)

When do they usually announce this by? :confused:

They don't have to announce officially until April 27. Most do it within the next week or so, I'd guess.

The more I think about it, the more I believe they'll all stay. The only one I could really see going would be Lawson. Hansbrough is too far behind the other bigs in NBA potential, and as you said he doesn't need to go. For him, becoming an all-time college great and being the BMOC probably is more important than an extra year of mediocrity in the NBA. Ellington also has too many guards ahead of him, and with an extra year could show even more improvement. Lawson also has several guys ahead of him, but he has always seemed the most interested in going pro soon.

I'd be really surprised if Ellington and Hansbrough go pro, and I'd not be surprised if all three stay. If that happens, I think there's the potential for Thompson or Stepheson to transfer. Although, they might hang around just long enough to try to enjoy a title.

freedevil
04-09-2008, 09:30 AM
1 of the 3, in my opinion, will be gone. And I think Roy knows this, otherwise his recruiting strategy does not make much sense, i.e. he's got too many good players for too few positions.

CDu
04-09-2008, 09:38 AM
1 of the 3, in my opinion, will be gone. And I think Roy knows this, otherwise his recruiting strategy does not make much sense, i.e. he's got too many good players for too few positions.

Well, Roy probably recruited those guys a year or two years ago. So unless he knew back then that these guys would leave, I don't think that the recruiting class should be a good indicator.

Roy also has no problems recruiting over/under players. He believes in depth, as it allows him more freedom to play his up-tempo style. So I don't think he'd be at all displeased to have five solid big men available next year.

Edouble
04-09-2008, 10:30 AM
1 of the 3, in my opinion, will be gone. And I think Roy knows this, otherwise his recruiting strategy does not make much sense, i.e. he's got too many good players for too few positions.

If just one goes, I will be really suprised. I think it's more likely that none will go than one. However, I think what will really end up happening is that all 3 will go. I think when one goes, the others won't want to stick around, as the only reason to stick around is to win the NC. WIth one gone, the chances of winning the NC drop off alot. I think that when one leaves, the floodgates open.

eddiehaskell
04-09-2008, 11:11 AM
All 3 could go pro and UNC would still have a pretty dangerous veteran team....especially in ACC play.

G - Frasor (senior)
G - Green (senior)
F - Ginyard (senior)
F - Thompson (junior)
C - Stepheson (junior)

Off the bench: Will Graves, Larry Drew, Ed Davis and Tyler Zeller

jimsumner
04-09-2008, 03:09 PM
I'd be very surprised if Ed Davis comes off the bench in that scenario.

novablue4
04-09-2008, 03:09 PM
Zeller may start over Stephensen as a freshman. UNC will be good. Uggggg

CDu
04-09-2008, 03:15 PM
All 3 could go pro and UNC would still have a pretty dangerous veteran team....especially in ACC play.

G - Frasor (senior)
G - Green (senior)
F - Ginyard (senior)
F - Thompson (junior)
C - Stepheson (junior)

Off the bench: Will Graves, Larry Drew, Ed Davis and Tyler Zeller

That's not a very scary team. Frasor is not a tremendous player. He's a decent shooter, a solid defender, and an adequate point guard. But he's nothing great. Green is terrific at times, absent at other times. Ginyard can't score. Thompson has never shown the consistency to be the go-to guy in the post. And Stepheson can't score. They'd be a solid team, but they'd be a second-tier squad for sure. We would be MUCH better than them if Lawson/Ellington/Hansbrough all leave.

Also, I'd bet that at least one of those freshmen would start in the post.

dukelion
04-09-2008, 03:47 PM
I think the Kansas game showed NBA scouts how well Hansflopper would do in the NBA. With him creating all the contact against stronger players, his gameplay will not work in the NBA....I don't question his heart, his travels maybe won't get called but that shotput release will be sent back by stronger and taller players."

I disagree..........Hansborough went up against legit NBA big man talent in that game (only Jackson might not play in the NBA) and still went for 17 and 9. Not bad considering he was doubled and tripled constantly. In the NBA he'll see more man to man and will excel as a complimentary PF.

I think the Kansas game actually raised his stock.

matrix1686
04-09-2008, 04:11 PM
There is no way Hansbrough's stock rose after that Kansas game. The double and triple teams had an effect on how many times Kansas stole the ball, but it didn't really effect all the times he had his shot rejected point blank. I mean there were numerous times when he spun around and Arthur, Jackson, or Aldrich just blocked the crap out of him. Most of those were one on one.

The fact is Hansbrough isn't very effective when he doesn't get post position right at the rim or when facing longer athletic players. Kansas players not only pushed him away from the rim but they were also much longer and athletic. Also, look at the '07 Georgetown game when Hibbert blocked him numerous times near the end.

I think Hansbrough is probably a decent starter in the NBA and if not, then an energy bench guy. Best case scenario is probably Udonis Haslem when he was playing with Shaq. If Hansbrough works on his jump shot then he can stand back and let the taller, more athletic big man on his team post up and he can catch and shoot off double teams on that man. Plus he would rebound well.

Worst case is probably a worse Nick Collison of the Sonics. He would come off the bench and provide rebounds and if a starting big man went down then he would be able to fill in more than adequately with some scoring.

eddiehaskell
04-09-2008, 05:56 PM
They'd be a solid team, but they'd be a second-tier squad for sure. We would be MUCH better than them if Lawson/Ellington/Hansbrough all leave.Not a scary team, but I believe they could beat any team in the ACC. Granted, I wouldn't expect them to win the ACC.

Thompson hasn't been a go-to guy, but he is also playing behind Hansbrough, Ellington, Green and Lawson. That makes him a 4th or 5th option in their offense. He looked very good with his back to the basket - especially that turnaround bank shot that seems to always go in. Stepheson is a good rebounder - he averaged 4.5 boards in only 14 minutes per game. Rebounding is one thing that would worry me in a Duke/UNC matchup - with their size and athleticism, they will get a lot of second chance points.

Zeller, Davis, Thompson, Stepheson and Green should all be good next year. Ginyard is a solid defender and Frasor is solid at the point. In a way, I believe Frasor does everything except for scoring 90% as well as Paulus.

banneheim
04-09-2008, 09:33 PM
I think the Kansas game showed NBA scouts how well Hansflopper would do in the NBA. With him creating all the contact against stronger players, his gameplay will not work in the NBA....I don't question his heart, his travels maybe won't get called but that shotput release will be sent back by stronger and taller players."

I disagree..........Hansborough went up against legit NBA big man talent in that game (only Jackson might not play in the NBA) and still went for 17 and 9. Not bad considering he was doubled and tripled constantly. In the NBA he'll see more man to man and will excel as a complimentary PF.

I think the Kansas game actually raised his stock.

What game were you watching????

CDu
04-09-2008, 09:42 PM
Not a scary team, but I believe they could beat any team in the ACC. Granted, I wouldn't expect them to win the ACC.

Thompson hasn't been a go-to guy, but he is also playing behind Hansbrough, Ellington, Green and Lawson. That makes him a 4th or 5th option in their offense. He looked very good with his back to the basket - especially that turnaround bank shot that seems to always go in. Stepheson is a good rebounder - he averaged 4.5 boards in only 14 minutes per game. Rebounding is one thing that would worry me in a Duke/UNC matchup - with their size and athleticism, they will get a lot of second chance points.

Zeller, Davis, Thompson, Stepheson and Green should all be good next year. Ginyard is a solid defender and Frasor is solid at the point. In a way, I believe Frasor does everything except for scoring 90% as well as Paulus.

We beat them, in Carolina, with Ellington and Hansbrough there. We nearly beat them at home with all three of the big three there. Trust me: if they don't have Hansbrough, Ellington, and Lawson next year, we will be definitely the favorites to win that game. Could we lose? Sure. But they would be an inferior team to ours without those big three.

They'd have an advantage in rebounding, but they don't frighten me. Thompson is a solid player, but he's shown nothing to suggest he can dominate, or even require a double team like Hansbrough. And without a top point guard, they won't get easy looks. And unless their freshmen are REALLY good right away, they aren't going to have a guy who'll just take a game over like Hansbrough.

And your last sentence is VERY telling. They things that would give us trouble are superior post play and a superb playmaking point guard. They'd have strong post play, but nothing outstanding, and they'd lack the great point guard. We'd have a HUGE edge at the 2, 3, and 4 spots, and we'd even have the edge at the 1 spot. Their edge in the post would not be enough to offset our advantages.

I'd feel very confident against Carolina if they don't have their big three.

eddiehaskell
04-09-2008, 10:32 PM
I agree we'll have the advantage, but how big of an advantage will depend on how well the Carolina team can mesh with the players they'll have. They will be a different team so who knows what they'll bring to the table.

On a talent level, I don't see a huge difference - especially with UNC's recruiting class coming in. Two of their recruits could be every bit as good or better than Singler was as a freshman. Also, with a rivalry like UNC/Duke, who comes to play is more important than who has the slight talent advantage. For example, many people would say there is no way that Duke could hang with UNC this year...UNC was as good or better at every position including the national player of the year and one of the nations best point guards. They also had much more size inside. However, all that doesn't matter when it's UNC/Duke and the teams are at least somewhat comparable talent wise (i.e. - not UNC's '01-'02 8-20 team).

I still say that without the big 3, UNC is a top 3 ACC team with the talent to knock of any team in the conference. A lot will depend on how good their 3 recruits are as freshmen.

yancem
04-10-2008, 12:33 AM
Two of their recruits could be every bit as good or better than Singler was as a freshman.

Say what? I won't pretend to be a recruiting expert but I find that statement highly unlikely. Singler was a top 5 recruit in one of the most stacked classes of the past decade. Davis and Zeller are borderline top 10 -top 20 in a class that is widely considered a weak class. Monore who is purported to be the best player in the '08 class supposedly would have trouble breaking the top ten of Singler's class. Besides, have you seen how skinny Zeller is?

That's not to say that Davis and Zeller won't be successful or contribute as freshman but I would be highly surprised if either of them put up numbers comparable to Singler and that's with Hansol, Lawson and Ellington declaring.

pete89
04-10-2008, 01:43 AM
After the poor performance on Saturday, probably no Tar Heels will be drafted in the lottery. Tyler has the best chance but I think he is still an early second rounder at best.

Bluedawg
04-10-2008, 11:55 AM
UNC's Hansbrough has a tough choice (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/unc/story/1031747.html) Robbi Pickeral, N&O Staff Writer


REASONS TO STAY

123 AND 602...
THE ELUSIVE TITLE...
HE ENJOYS SCHOOL...
HE CAN AFFORD IT...

REASONS TO GO

PROVING 'EM WRONG...
$933,500...
THE OVEREXPOSURE...
THE INJURY FACTOR...

I say he goes...

eddiehaskell
04-10-2008, 01:52 PM
Say what? I won't pretend to be a recruiting expert but I find that statement highly unlikely. Singler was a top 5 recruit in one of the most stacked classes of the past decade. Davis and Zeller are borderline top 10 -top 20 in a class that is widely considered a weak class. Monore who is purported to be the best player in the '08 class supposedly would have trouble breaking the top ten of Singler's class. Besides, have you seen how skinny Zeller is?It looks like Zeller and Davis have moved up in the rankings.

Ed Davis:
Scout.com = 5-star and #3 power forward
ESPN (Scouts, Inc.) = #2 power forward and #10 overall

Tyler Zeller:
Scout.com = 5-star and #4 power forward.
ESPN (Scouts, Inc.) = #1 power forward and #6 overall.

I wont pretend to know how the classes compare, but keep in mind that Singler was playing out of position all year (listed as a SF out of high school). UNC's guys will step in and play their natural positions - power forward.

devildeac
04-10-2008, 01:58 PM
It looks like Zeller and Davis have moved up in the rankings.

Ed Davis:
Scout.com = 5-star and #3 power forward
ESPN (Scouts, Inc.) = #2 power forward and #10 overall

Tyler Zeller:
Scout.com = 5-star and #4 power forward.
ESPN (Scouts, Inc.) = #1 power forward and #6 overall.

I wont pretend to know how the classes compare, but keep in mind that Singler was playing out of position all year (listed as a SF out of high school). UNC's guys will step in and play their natural positions - power forward.

A question or two about Zeller. Did we recruit him? Were we even on his list? Saw a bit of a bio on him recently-3rd in his class with a 3.98 GPA. Would he have(pure speculation, of course) been a good 'fit' at Duke. Idle curiosity in the off-season.

eddiehaskell
04-10-2008, 02:19 PM
From the interview I saw, he didn't mention Duke. It was between Indiana schools and UNC. He said he wanted to play with/against the best players and he liked the area. Sadly, Duke doesn't really have any good big men for him to play against in practice. At UNC he'll have Ed Davis, Thompson, Stepheson and the Ware twin coming in next year.

Kdogg
04-10-2008, 09:01 PM
UNC's Hansbrough has a tough choice (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/unc/story/1031747.html) Robbi Pickeral, N&O Staff Writer



I say he goes...

If he stays he might want to give JJ a call. Although it will not be as bad as JJ, the treatment he will receive is going to be harsh from opposing fans. He will also get a ton of media attention which will feed the hate.

Franzez
04-10-2008, 09:33 PM
From the interview I saw, he didn't mention Duke. It was between Indiana schools and UNC. He said he wanted to play with/against the best players and he liked the area. Sadly, Duke doesn't really have any good big men for him to play against in practice. At UNC he'll have Ed Davis, Thompson, Stepheson and the Ware twin coming in next year.
Yeah his brother apparently plays for Notre Dame.

Im glad Duke didnt recruit him,have you guys even seen him?
Hes a stick figure,I think hes actually 180 lbs,Shavlik Randolph looks more muscular than him.

UNC doesnt have great big men

Ed Davis is not truly a big man and he'll project as a SF/PF combo guy in the NBA but he certainly isn't what you'd classify as a classic big man.

Thompson & Stephenson are just 2 6'8 245 lb guys who are meant to play PF but are playing out of position at C.

The Ware twins both didnt seem like actual threats in the post from the few games I saw on TV of them the season before last.

yancem
04-11-2008, 10:42 AM
It looks like Zeller and Davis have moved up in the rankings.

Ed Davis:
Scout.com = 5-star and #3 power forward
ESPN (Scouts, Inc.) = #2 power forward and #10 overall

Tyler Zeller:
Scout.com = 5-star and #4 power forward.
ESPN (Scouts, Inc.) = #1 power forward and #6 overall.

I wont pretend to know how the classes compare, but keep in mind that Singler was playing out of position all year (listed as a SF out of high school). UNC's guys will step in and play their natural positions - power forward.

You have to also consider that Singler didn't have any proven players standing between him and a starting position. Davis and Zeller have at least 2 and 3 if Hansolo returns. There is a decent chance that neither of them get more than spot duty where as Singler was a starter from day one, our best player during part of the season and the acc rookie of the year. I don't think I see any of those things applying to Davis or Zeller. Of course I could be wrong but the odds don't seem very good to me.

duketaylor
04-11-2008, 10:50 AM
Ed Davis will see plenty of playing time with his ability to get up and down the court, rebound and finish on the break. He's also an excellent shot-blocker and is still growing. I've seen him several times, the kid is good. Wait til he fills out some more.

Blueequalslife23
04-11-2008, 02:41 PM
http://www.tarheeltimes.com/2008/04/hansbrough-will.html

Channing
04-11-2008, 02:44 PM
this is actually something I really respect out of Roy Williams. I am not saying other coaches dont do it - but Roy is very frank with his players. He goes out there to check their stock, and gives them the right advice, not just self serving advice.

GopherBlue
04-11-2008, 02:44 PM
http://www.tarheeltimes.com/2008/04/hansbrough-will.html

. . . or maybe not. As far as I can tell, this article only indicates they are looking into their options with Roy's help.

SilkyJ
04-11-2008, 02:45 PM
http://www.tarheeltimes.com/2008/04/hansbrough-will.html

Ha. Don't get too excited. This is the "information gathering" process which is standard for these guys. I think they'll learn that none of them are going to be lottery picks this year, so I'll be surprised if more than one goes.

Bluedawg
04-11-2008, 02:51 PM
. . . or maybe not. As far as I can tell, this article only indicates they are looking into their options with Roy's help.

I speculated in a different thread concerning Roy canceling his vacation to go recruiting:



Roy also just met with his big three to see what their future was.


He also discussed having preliminary meetings with Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington and Tyler Hansbrough, three players considering leaving UNC early.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1033033.html

Maybe this is an indication that he has spots to fill.

77devil
04-11-2008, 02:53 PM
Ha. Don't get too excited. This is the "information gathering" process which is standard for these guys. I think they'll learn that none of them are going to be lottery picks this year, so I'll be surprised if more than one goes.

True, but it may not be a coincidence that Ol' Roy cancelled his European vacation plans to go recruiting. Or it may simply be that paying $5 a can for his beloved Coke, given the value of the American "Peso", was too much to bear.;)

Troublemaker
04-11-2008, 03:15 PM
Let's remember that if/when one or more of the Heels declare, it will be meaningless until they hire an agent or the deadline to remove their name from the draft passes. Lots of players these days declare to get a feel for the draft process and the professional evaluations of their game, and unless the players like where they're projected to go in the draft, they'll pull out.

If Lawson, Ellington, and Hansbrough all declare tomorrow, I would shrug. All three happen to be late first round prospects. If they hire an agent, on the other hand, I'd jump for joy.

JasonEvans
04-11-2008, 03:19 PM
Let's remember that if/when one or more of the Heels declare, it will be meaningless until they hire an agent or the deadline to remove their name from the draft passes. Lots of players these days declare to get a feel for the draft process and professional evaluation of their game, and unless the players like where they're projected to go in the draft, they'll pull out.

If Lawson, Ellington, and Hansbrough all declare tomorrow, I would shrug. All three happen to be late first round prospects. If they hire an agent, I'll jump for joy.

And I would expect all three of them to "test the waters" if only to find out where their stock stands and what the NBA wants them to work upon. They would almost be foolish not to. Hasbro especially, as a junior, should check out what the NBA thinks about him. The choice for Sophs Ellington and Lawson is not quite as obvious as you are only allowed to "test the waters" once and pull back out.

--Jason "all juniors should check it out if they have realistic NBA aspirations" Evans

yancem
04-11-2008, 06:04 PM
True, but it may not be a coincidence that Ol' Roy cancelled his European vacation plans to go recruiting. Or it may simply be that paying $5 a can for his beloved Coke, given the value of the American "Peso", was too much to bear.;)

I'm not sure why he would cancel a vacation in order to go recruiting. He's not likely to pick up anyone from the '08 class that will be an impact next year and he's already signed 4 players from the '09 class so he's not likely to sign many more from that class. The '10 class is a ways away, so I doubt he would cancel a vacation to recruit that group either.

MChambers
04-11-2008, 08:46 PM
I'm not sure why he would cancel a vacation in order to go recruiting. He's not likely to pick up anyone from the '08 class that will be an impact next year and he's already signed 4 players from the '09 class so he's not likely to sign many more from that class. The '10 class is a ways away, so I doubt he would cancel a vacation to recruit that group either.

The coaches don't publicize their vacations, or their cancellations of them, for that matter. That's what makes Roy so gaddum mad.

norduck
04-13-2008, 07:20 PM
Ha. Don't get too excited. This is the "information gathering" process which is standard for these guys. I think they'll learn that none of them are going to be lottery picks this year, so I'll be surprised if more than one goes.



http://www.wral.com/sports/blogpost/2728161/

yancem
04-14-2008, 08:53 AM
http://www.wral.com/sports/blogpost/2728161/

I agree with the scouts perspective on all three UNC players (not that means much). It seems to me, based on what the scout's opinion, that Hansolo should base his decision on which is more important to him, an nba paycheck or his name all over the UNC and ACC record books; Lawson probably should declare because people are going to see less upside next year than now and Ellington should stick around for at least one more year.

UrinalCake
04-14-2008, 12:15 PM
While it's true that a player who has declared but not hired an agent is allowed to return to school, my memory of past years tells me that very few players actually decide to do this. My guess is that once they start sniffing the NBA, get that close to things, and maybe even work out for some teams, they start to believe that they belong there.

It's like if I'm on a diet and someone invites me out to dinner, I'll tell myself that I'll go but not eat anything. But once I'm in the restaurant, the temptation is too great and I give in 8-).

BCGroup
04-14-2008, 05:21 PM
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=nba_analyst_hansbrough_lawson_elli ngton&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

"North Carolina basketball players Tyler Hansbrough, Ty Lawson and Wayne Ellington likely won't be lottery picks if they choose to declare early for the NBA, draft analyst Chris Monter said Monday."

freedevil
04-14-2008, 05:41 PM
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=nba_analyst_hansbrough_lawson_elli ngton&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

"North Carolina basketball players Tyler Hansbrough, Ty Lawson and Wayne Ellington likely won't be lottery picks if they choose to declare early for the NBA, draft analyst Chris Monter said Monday."

The clear consensus seems to be that of the 3, only Lawson could be picked in the teens (but not the lottery). I really wonder if they won't all stay in anticipation of a much weaker draft next year.

superdave
04-14-2008, 09:15 PM
I keep hearing from UNC fans that Ellington may be getting pushed by his family to go pro for $ reasons. I just dont see him being a 1st rounder though...he's too one dimensional. Guess that would push Danny Green into starting at the 2.

yancem
04-15-2008, 12:11 AM
The clear consensus seems to be that of the 3, only Lawson could be picked in the teens (but not the lottery). I really wonder if they won't all stay in anticipation of a much weaker draft next year.

You always hear people talking about going/staying because this year's draft will be weaker/stronger than next year's draft but I wonder exactly how big of a difference it makes. It seems to me that when you have a weak draft that teams gamble even more on potential instead of taking the know commodities.

Look at the '01 draft. It was considered a weak draft and their was talk of Battier being a #1 overall pick but instead high school kids went 1, 2, 4 and a European was picked 3. Battier mean while fell to 6. I'm sure that Battier wasn't too disappointed with his draft position and maybe he would have gone much lower if he had declared a year earlier but I think that if nba teams feel like if they have a lottery pick they would rather gamble on a undeveloped raw talent with upside than pick a guy they know will contribute but never be more than a role player or glue guy.

You never know what a guy might do to help or hurt his draft status by staying another year but you also never know who might emerge as the next sexy pick either. I doubt that Noah or Tyrus Thomas were on anyone's radar in 2005 but but they were the talk of the town in 2006. Thomas declared and was drafted 3rd while Noah stayed and dropped to 9 in 2007.

BCGroup
04-16-2008, 08:12 PM
"North Carolina's basketball team will hold its end-of-season awards ceremony Thursday night (7 p.m., Smith Center, free and open to the public).And if Tar Heels Tyler Hansbrough, Ty Lawson and Wayne Ellington stay mum about their NBA futures, it could be telling.Since coach Roy Williams returned to Chapel Hill in 2003, no Tar Heel has announced his intention to leave school early at the event, preferring to wait for a later news conference. But several players — including Hansbrough last season — have used the ceremony to confirm their decisions to stay."

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=no_news_could_be_bad_news_at_unc_a wards&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

TheDuke11
04-16-2008, 08:40 PM
apparately adam gold said that all 3 are staying.
ouch for us.

freedevil
04-16-2008, 08:49 PM
apparately adam gold said that all 3 are staying.
ouch for us.

Adam Gold also botched Coach K's post-game press conference about releasing injuries.

norduck
04-16-2008, 08:59 PM
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=hansbrough_s_dad_knows_of_no_decis ion_ye&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

moonpie23
04-16-2008, 09:11 PM
Adam Gold also botched Coach K's post-game press conference about releasing injuries.

i don't know if you would call it "botched".....850 merely trusted a previously reliable "official duke source" with a quote that turned out to be incorrect.


their only mistake was going with it before it could be confirmed by actually LISTENING to the replay.

ncexnyc
04-17-2008, 01:26 AM
I hope all 3 return next year, especially Hasbro. I'd love nothing better than to send him off in his senior year with 2 spankings from the Blue Devils.:D

TheDuke11
04-17-2008, 09:14 AM
i hope all 3 leave, their recruits dont show up, green and ginyard transfer, stephenson and thompson just quit, frasor goes into coaching.

thats what I hope.

CDu
04-17-2008, 09:35 AM
I hope all 3 return next year, especially Hasbro. I'd love nothing better than to send him off in his senior year with 2 spankings from the Blue Devils.:D

I don't share your feelings. I'd much rather them have virtually no chance at the national championship next year. If all three stay, they are the clear frontrunner. And that's no fun for me.

Troublemaker
04-17-2008, 09:59 AM
I don't share your feelings. I'd much rather them have virtually no chance at the national championship next year. If all three stay, they are the clear frontrunner. And that's no fun for me.

Agreed. And the thing is, how good a team Duke becomes isn't completely independent of how good a team UNC is. For example, I think Duke's team this past season lost a lot of confidence after losing to UNC on Senior Day, especially Nelson because it was HIS day. Our players are human. The way the rivalry gets emphasized every season by the media and the fans, it's tough on the players mentally when UNC is the superior team. Personally, I'm just a fan, but I'm already sick of UNC being the better team the past two seasons, but I can only imagine how tough it must be on the players. I don't want to have to deal with it again for a third straight season, if possible.

duke98
04-17-2008, 10:06 AM
I don't share your feelings. I'd much rather them have virtually no chance at the national championship next year. If all three stay, they are the clear frontrunner. And that's no fun for me.

It's a fine line. Remember the Matt Doherty years? I hate to say it, but beating UNC when they were that bad was a little boring. Still fun, but not as much fun as beating them this year, in February.

I'd like for UNC's 2008-09 to be just like their 07-08: high expectations, ending in a complete smackdown on national television. Maybe the smackdown could happen in the 3rd or 4th round this year. C'mon, can you imagine how bad the 'Heels would feel if everyone returns next year and they don't even make the Elite 8?? That would be fantastic.

Misunderestimated
04-17-2008, 10:12 AM
Agreed. And the thing is, how good a team Duke becomes isn't completely independent of how good a team UNC is. For example, I think Duke's team this past season lost a lot of confidence after losing to UNC on Senior Day, especially Nelson because it was HIS day. Our players are human. The way the rivalry gets emphasized every season by the media and the fans, it's tough on the players mentally when UNC is the superior team. Personally, I'm just a fan, but I'm already sick of UNC being the better team the past two seasons, but I can only imagine how tough it must be on the players. I don't want to have to deal with it again for a third straight season, if possible.

I'm 180 degrees off from this. I like the bar being raised high in the ACC. Even though I knew going into the 2nd UNC game, that UNC was playing much better ball, I was so excited that entire week. To me that's what its all about. My guess is that win or lose, Nelson would have gambled being heartbroken for the chance to beat UNC on his senior night. You dont always get to ride off into the sunset as winner though. I'm looking forward to sending Hans home from Cameron next Feb with a loss. I guess I don't mind being an underdog. Thats just my $.02

Troublemaker
04-17-2008, 10:18 AM
It's a fine line. Remember the Matt Doherty years? I hate to say it, but beating UNC when they were that bad was a little boring. Still fun, but not as much fun as beating them this year, in February.

I'd like for UNC's 2008-09 to be just like their 07-08: high expectations, ending in a complete smackdown on national television. Maybe the smackdown could happen in the 3rd or 4th round this year. C'mon, can you imagine how bad the 'Heels would feel if everyone returns next year and they don't even make the Elite 8?? That would be fantastic.

The flipside of that coin is UNC winning their 2nd championship in 5 years, and they would be the clear favorite nationally.

If all 3 UNC players left and Duke swept UNC next season, I would enjoy that immensely.

Troublemaker
04-17-2008, 10:23 AM
I'm 180 degrees off from this. I like the bar being raised high in the ACC. Even though I knew going into the 2nd UNC game, that UNC was playing much better ball, I was so excited that entire week. To me that's what its all about. My guess is that win or lose, Nelson would have gambled being heartbroken for the chance to beat UNC on his senior night. You dont always get to ride off into the sunset as winner though. I'm looking forward to sending Hans home from Cameron next Feb with a loss. I guess I don't mind being an underdog. Thats just my $.02

I don't mind being an underdog but I'm not rooting for UNC's players to stay. Because that's basically rooting for them to be better than Duke next season, barring some dramatic surprises occurring. I like the bar being set high in the ACC as well, but I prefer it when Duke has a good chance of clearing that bar, i.e. being the best team. The ACC next season will be strong regardless of whether UNC's players stay or not.

TheDuke11
04-17-2008, 01:06 PM
ty lawsons aim away message says:

Its been a great 3 years. I'm going to miss all of you.









April 2009

CDu
04-17-2008, 01:14 PM
It's a fine line. Remember the Matt Doherty years? I hate to say it, but beating UNC when they were that bad was a little boring. Still fun, but not as much fun as beating them this year, in February.

I'd like for UNC's 2008-09 to be just like their 07-08: high expectations, ending in a complete smackdown on national television. Maybe the smackdown could happen in the 3rd or 4th round this year. C'mon, can you imagine how bad the 'Heels would feel if everyone returns next year and they don't even make the Elite 8?? That would be fantastic.

Yeah, but remember 2005? It pretty much stunk seeing Carolina win the national championship. And even if they don't win the title next year, Carolina could very possibly/probably sweep us. That's certainly no fun.

Is it more fun to beat Carolina when they're really good? Absolutely. But regardless of how good Carolina is, it's always fun to beat them. I'd happily give up a chance of a little bit more pleasure in beating Carolina (because we could easily lose twice next year if they all stay) for a SUBSTANTIALLY reduced chance of Carolina winning a championship. I like having the upper hand, even if it means Carolina isn't nearly as good.

If you could guarantee me that we'd beat Carolina twice AND that Carolina wouldn't win the title with those three returning, then of course I'd prefer to have them stay. But you can't guarantee that. And I wouldn't even predict that (at least the "us winning twice" part).

slower
04-17-2008, 01:22 PM
ty lawsons aim away message says:

Its been a great 3 years. I'm going to miss all of you.









April 2009

THREE years? So either it's a joke or he's a complete moron (or possibly both).

CDu
04-17-2008, 01:24 PM
THREE years? So either it's a joke or he's a complete moron (or possibly both).

Or it's made up by somebody else and his AIM message doesn't say that at all.

slower
04-17-2008, 01:31 PM
Or it's made up by somebody else and his AIM message doesn't say that at all.

that's my first thought as well, that somebody else is playing a joke.

Ignatius07
04-17-2008, 01:33 PM
THREE years? So either it's a joke or he's a complete moron (or possibly both).

The (possibly tongue-in-cheek) statement says "April 2009" at the bottom, so it would be three years by then.

slower
04-17-2008, 01:36 PM
The (possibly tongue-in-cheek) statement says "April 2009" at the bottom, so it would be three years by then.

My bad.

yancem
04-17-2008, 02:11 PM
Agreed. And the thing is, how good a team Duke becomes isn't completely independent of how good a team UNC is. For example, I think Duke's team this past season lost a lot of confidence after losing to UNC on Senior Day, especially Nelson because it was HIS day. Our players are human. The way the rivalry gets emphasized every season by the media and the fans, it's tough on the players mentally when UNC is the superior team. Personally, I'm just a fan, but I'm already sick of UNC being the better team the past two seasons, but I can only imagine how tough it must be on the players. I don't want to have to deal with it again for a third straight season, if possible.

Don't forget that talent levels rarely matter when Duke battles UNC. Remember in '05 when a significantly less talented UNC team ruined Redick and William's senior night? How about in '95 when Duke was in the midst of its worst season in over a decade and UNC was top 5. That game went to double overtime (I was at that came by the way, best game I ever watch in person). So if UNC is stacked or not doesn't matter; they are never a gimmie.

Classof06
04-17-2008, 02:24 PM
I agree with Yancem; the games are going to be close no matter what. If Duke could beat UNC last year (we probably should've swept them) then I'm confident we can beat them next year.

If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time I've posted on this thread, but I just wanted to say that I'd be pretty surprised if UNC didn't get everybody back. Last year, they were considered the team to beat in the preseason and at different times throughout the year but it was never really unanimous until heading into the tournament. If UNC keeps this team intact, they will be the unanimous team to beat next year and anything less than a title will be a failure. It's a high stakes decision but its one I don't expect them to back down from.

Hansbrough wants a title at all costs; it would arguably make him the best UNC player ever or one of them at the least.

Ellington is a spot-up jump shooter that has no business declaring for the draft, IMO.

And if you're Lawson, would you leave after the game you had against Kansas?

gvtucker
04-17-2008, 02:27 PM
And if you're Lawson, would you leave after the game you had against Kansas?
Will Avery was in the same situation in 1999 and he left.

Classof06
04-17-2008, 05:07 PM
Will Avery was in the same situation in 1999 and he left.

Another piece of evidence supporting the decision to stay in school. I'd say the same thing about Darren Collison after Rose abused him in the Final Four. But with Collison, him being 6-0 isn't going to change by going back to school.

Anyone have any intel on what scouts think about Sean Singletary from UVA?

gvtucker
04-17-2008, 05:21 PM
Another piece of evidence supporting the decision to stay in school.
I dunno.

Seems to me that Avery gamed the system wonderfully, getting himself picked in the lottery.

If he wasn't willing to work hard enough to stick in the NBA after 2 years, he probably wasn't willing to work hard enough with another two years at Duke, either.

Alternatively, if he didn't have enough talent in the first place, he probably maximized his draft status (and consequently his earning potential in the NBA).

TheDuke11
04-17-2008, 05:29 PM
several unc website message boards are reporting that tyler and tywon are back.

ellington still on the bench.

Biscuit King
04-17-2008, 05:30 PM
Anyone have any intel on what scouts think about Sean Singletary from UVA?

Everything I read puts Singletary in the mid second round, which, frankly, baffles me. Yes, he is short. But for crying out loud, he is as tall as Lawson.

Singletary can flat out score, and his assist numbers will look a lot better when he plays with some teammates who can actually score. His handle is equal to Lawson's, and his ability shoot and finish in the lane is superior to Lawson's. So I can't for the life of me figure out why Lawson is a surefire first-rounder, and Singletary is considered a longshot.

Singletary will make a team. Bank on it.

huied
04-17-2008, 05:33 PM
several unc website message boards are reporting that tyler and tywon are back.

ellington still on the bench.

This surprises me to an extent. I feel like Ellington is the least NBA-ready of the three, although I believe that all three would get drafted in the first round were they all to go.

flash
04-17-2008, 05:38 PM
I have heard from a number of sources that Sean Singletary will probably not be drafted in the first two rounds. Sounds ridiculous I know. Personally think that he was a great college player.

yancem
04-17-2008, 05:47 PM
I agree with Yancem; the games are going to be close no matter what. If Duke could beat UNC last year (we probably should've swept them) then I'm confident we can beat them next year.

If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time I've posted on this thread, but I just wanted to say that I'd be pretty surprised if UNC didn't get everybody back. Last year, they were considered the team to beat in the preseason and at different times throughout the year but it was never really unanimous until heading into the tournament. If UNC keeps this team intact, they will be the unanimous team to beat next year and anything less than a title will be a failure. It's a high stakes decision but its one I don't expect them to back down from.


You make a decent point about UNC being heavily favored next if everyone comes back but beware the supremely talented team that adds a couple of talented freshman. UNC won the NC in '93 and returned most of team while also adding the loaded class that included Jerry Stackhouse and Rasheed Wallace. That team had amazing talent but there was chemistry issues and Smith had trouble keeping everyone happy with minutes.

O'Roy rations out minutes as well as anyone but he is going to have a very overloaded front court. If Davis and Zeller can't steal minutes from Thompson and Stepheson do they end up whining? If they do earn minutes, will Thompson and Stepheson be unhappy? Just look at what Hickson did to NCST's chemistry this year.

I'm not saying the UNC won't or shouldn't be favored or that they can't win it all. I'm just saying let's not hand them the trophy as soon as Hansolo, Lawson and Ellington say they're staying.

sagegrouse
04-17-2008, 07:00 PM
I have heard from a number of sources that Sean Singletary will probably not be drafted in the first two rounds. Sounds ridiculous I know. Personally think that he was a great college player.

Do you remember Randolph Childress? He was utterly fantastic at Wake (of course, having Mr. Duncan around helped) but made no impact in the NBA (2 yrs., 2PPG). His build was similar to Singletary --i.e. skinny.

Juan Dixon is another Skinny Minnie who also terrific in the ACC. He is a solid journeyman who has been in the league for six years. His minutes have dropped off this year but, playing for Detroit, he could have a nice run in the playoffs.

Singletary is listed at 5-11; Childress at 6-2 and Dixon at 6-3. 5-11 and skinny is pretty darn small for the NBA.

I wish Sean all the best.

sagegrouse
'Whoever thought that PG Steve Blake would have as good an NBA career as Juan Dixon'

sagegrouse

norduck
04-17-2008, 09:55 PM
http://www.wral.com/sports/story/2753055/

BlueintheFace
04-17-2008, 09:59 PM
I think this means little more than-- at least one of the three are still strongly considering declaring. I think no announcements come until all three have decided based on their own prospects AND the others' decisions. Still, it's a good sign. Last year Tyler said he was returning at that event.

CDu
04-17-2008, 10:44 PM
I think this means little more than-- at least one of the three are still strongly considering declaring. I think no announcements come until all three have decided based on their own prospects AND the others' decisions. Still, it's a good sign. Last year Tyler said he was returning at that event.

Yeah, I think this is pretty much a "no sign." I agree that all it means is that at least one of them is considering it. I'd have to believe that all of them are considering it.

If I were Hansbrough, I'd declare but not (immediately) get an agent. By doing so, he would get a free opportunity to test the waters and get evaluation and feedback from the scouts. If it goes well, he can enter the draft. If not, he can return to UNC, no harm no foul.

The decision is a little more complicated for Lawson and Ellington, since they are sophomores. If they enter and then pull out of the draft, then they have a HUGE decision next year as juniors, because you can't enter more than twice.

moonpie23
04-17-2008, 11:44 PM
no good news from the banquet (for holes).....no BAD news...but no good news either

JasonEvans
04-18-2008, 06:41 AM
Yeah, I think this is pretty much a "no sign." I agree that all it means is that at least one of them is considering it. I'd have to believe that all of them are considering it.

If I were Hansbrough, I'd declare but not (immediately) get an agent. By doing so, he would get a free opportunity to test the waters and get evaluation and feedback from the scouts. If it goes well, he can enter the draft. If not, he can return to UNC, no harm no foul.

The decision is a little more complicated for Lawson and Ellington, since they are sophomores. If they enter and then pull out of the draft, then they have a HUGE decision next year as juniors, because you can't enter more than twice.

I forget where I read it, but I saw comments from Ole Roy that if they went in, it would not be to "test that waters." He says that if they are in, then it is a done deal. He said that he was getting enough information for them to know everything they needed to know so testing things out would make no sense.

I am not sure I even begin to understand that logic (what if their draft stock went up or down after having some workouts?) but that is what Roy says.

--Jason "I am still hearing there is at least a decent chance all 3 of them leave" Evans

yancem
04-18-2008, 07:57 AM
If I were Hansbrough, I'd declare but not (immediately) get an agent. By doing so, he would get a free opportunity to test the waters and get evaluation and feedback from the scouts. If it goes well, he can enter the draft. If not, he can return to UNC, no harm no foul.

The danger in this for Hansolo is that if he comes back its in large part because he wants to win a NC. If he declares, even to just test the waters, Lawson and Ellington might get nervous about him leaving and declare too. I kinda feel its an all or nothing type thing although I think Ellington would be making a big mistake if he goes.

Salty Breezes
04-18-2008, 08:29 AM
Can we do a rain dance or something at this point?


As for those of you who want these guys to stay to make the rivalry and the ACC better, please remember those of us who actually live amongst the Baby Blues. It's always better for Duke fans around here when UNC fans shut the heck up. And it's been blissfully quiet since the Kansas game.

Here's hoping the summer is a quiet one, too...

kydevil
04-18-2008, 10:40 AM
no good news from the banquet (for holes).....no BAD news...but no good news either

Ew... IC

TheDuke11
04-18-2008, 10:47 AM
i was looking over the shoulder of a co worker on ic either tuesday or wednesday and there were several posts from users talking about "sources confirm all 3 to return next year" and stuff of that nature.
Weird. Who knows.

freedevil
04-18-2008, 11:01 AM
i was looking over the shoulder of a co worker on ic either tuesday or wednesday and there were several posts from users talking about "sources confirm all 3 to return next year" and stuff of that nature.
Weird. Who knows.

Anything on IC's free forum, or TDD's free forum for that matter, absent a link, is almost certainly conjecture.

That's why I like that rumor-mongering/just making things up is locked on this Board, while discussing hypotheticals is fine - minus confusing the latter as fact.

CMS2478
04-18-2008, 11:46 AM
Is that one or more of them are going to test the waters in the NBA. For example if Lawson is leaving but Hanstravel and Ellington are staying, they wouldn't announce it bc it would make it wierd and obvious for Lawson. Basically we know nothing new from them staying quiet at the banquet. Personally, I think Hanstravel is the only one that should possibly go. His draft status won't change. Ellington is a 2nd rounder which means he should come back. Lawson shouldn't go because this draft will be loaded with PG's who are better than him. (Gordon, Rose, Collison, Augustine??) and many other players that would go ahead of him (too many to name). As much as I would hate to see it, I think they all should come back. :(

Channing
04-18-2008, 02:12 PM
as has been mentioned, i think it would be foolish for Hansborough not to test the waters since he is a Jr, and still has his one free test card (and traveling to workouts or other financial constraints do not seem to apply to him).

freedevil
04-18-2008, 02:53 PM
Anything on IC's free forum, or TDD's free forum for that matter, absent a link, is almost certainly conjecture.

That's why I like that rumor-mongering/just making things up is locked on this Board, while discussing hypotheticals is fine - minus confusing the latter as fact.

To quote myself, I'm actually enjoying my afternoon of procrastination by challenging a poster on IC to produce links to back up some pretty funny accusations about K and the NBA. He's responded to my challenge to produce links with a couple of posts, but no links yet. :)

CameronCrazy'11
04-18-2008, 06:08 PM
If all three were staying they definitely would have announced at the banquet. At least one is definitely gonna test the waters at the very least.

BD80
04-18-2008, 07:11 PM
Remember that the tarheel trio are NOT top ten picks. Therefore, their fate is highly dependent on what other kids do. If five more top 20 kids declare, that might push one or more of the three back for another year.

I think the only early news we will get is that they are staying. The longer it goes, the more likely they will at least put their names in. I'll bet Roy is telling them to wait, knowing the momentum toward the NBA that develops once a player's name is in.

I predict they will each announce on the last day that they will explore the process, and then attend several workouts against their main competition. If they have good showings and move up, they stay in. If not, it is a good benchmark for their development.

I think the big issues are the potential overexposure if they come back next year - and injury (particularly Lawson).

I bet it absolutely burns Lawson up each time he hears there are four PGs ahead of him in the draft. I'll bet HansB is a bit tired of hearing about Love as well. Frankly, Love's agent would never allow Love to workout against HansB. Rose will probably also have private workouts. The others would be fun to watch battle. Lawson v Collison or Augustine. Damn I miss college hoops already.

My $0.02, they all come back.

JStuart
04-18-2008, 08:18 PM
'And it's been blissfully quiet since the Kansas game.'
Yes, indeed, things are pleasant in the triangle; why at the Durham Bulls ballpark last weekend, there were few t'hole shirts and caps. Just imagine if they had won the whole thing *shudder*.
'Blissfully quiet' sums things up very well!

moonpie23
04-19-2008, 09:59 AM
To quote myself, I'm actually enjoying my afternoon of procrastination by challenging a poster on IC to produce links to back up some pretty funny accusations about K and the NBA. He's responded to my challenge to produce links with a couple of posts, but no links yet. :)

keep stirring the hate, Fd....let me know if you need a helper.

:)

Devilsfan
04-19-2008, 10:32 AM
I bet ol'Roy is doing his country best to keep all three. It would be nice if they all came back, we beat them on senior's night and they lost in the first round of next years' tournament to a Santa Clara or Weber State.

Salty Breezes
04-21-2008, 11:19 PM
I bet ol'Roy is doing his country best to keep all three. It would be nice if they all came back, we beat them on senior's night and they lost in the first round of next years' tournament to a Santa Clara or Weber State.

It's always a special day when someone brings out the old "Steve Nash at Santa Clara" post. Two of my favorite non-Duke tourney moments were the Steve Nash game against MD in 96, and of course, the Harold "The Show" Arcineaux game in 99.

BTW, if I ever run into Arcineaux, I'd love to buy him dinner. In fact, if I were him, I'd just hang out at bars and look for Duke fans to buy me drinks.

Salty Breezes
04-21-2008, 11:46 PM
BTW, if I ever run into Arcineaux, I'd love to buy him dinner. In fact, if I were him, I'd just hang out at bars and look for Duke fans to buy me drinks.[/QUOTE]

OK, you know it's getting late when you're quoting yourself. But I just spent an interesting 20 minutes tracking down The Show. As of last month, he was playing in Argentina's Liga A (I declined to pay to download his stats). So I guess I won't be buying him dinner anytime soon.

One other exciting tidbit from that search: my favorite cba team is definitely the Atlanta Krunk. No kidding.

Friendo
04-21-2008, 11:52 PM
One more year will NOT help Hans' draft position unless next year is a weak draft for bigs. Another year would just give scouts more time to pick out his flaws. Another year at UNC would not help him as a pro, because he his physically mature (23) and his game has pretty much peaked and plateaued. His lower draft status will allow him to go to a good team where he can be a valuable role player and contend for championships.

That said, I think he stays to set all of UNC's records and to try to be the first back-to-back player of the year since Oscar and another shot at the NC. The chance to be Carolina's best player ever (statistically speaking) over Jordan, Worthy, Daugherty, Perkins, Jamison, Montross, Swicker, Akulaja, Hayworth, et al is an ego trip many would like to take.

The issue is not giving up a year of rookie salary, but rather losing a year out of one's pro career, arguably a higher earning year. While another year in school makes you a year older, does it really shorten your career by a year? Look at Mutumbo, he didn't start in the league until he was 40, and he is still going strong as he approaches 60.

Somewhat disagree- Tyler needs to and can improve his court vision and passing, and his interior defense. He will have enough help next season for Roy to not have to worry about him fouling out (save it-I can guess the reply here). Ty and Wayne clearly aren't ready to cash in (but maybe that's not apparent to them and their posses). Wayne had a decent run, but he needs a "Cory Brewer" type of run next year to really establish himself.
All 3 return imo.
The real question is can Marcus use that bod to his advantage... maybe take some "man-up" lessons from GH, and become an offensive force--I'll be happy if he learns how to dunk.
btw--love Scheyer's game--I'd trade him for Ginyard in a heartbeat.

shadowfax336
04-22-2008, 11:45 AM
trade Scheyer for Ginyard...
...
...

why exactly?

MChambers
04-22-2008, 11:50 AM
trade Scheyer for Ginyard...
...
...

why exactly?

I think a UNC fan was trying to express his appreciation for Scheyer.

shadowfax336
04-22-2008, 11:52 AM
ah gotcha
yeah I read that a bit too fast...

Friendo
04-22-2008, 12:07 PM
I think a UNC fan was trying to express his appreciation for Scheyer.


yes, but also my disappointment w/Ginyard.;)

acciconoclast
04-22-2008, 12:25 PM
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hLmLcilitItTb5luyxAQZ4uXd2kw