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BCGroup
04-01-2008, 06:50 PM
"Both Gerald Henderson and Lance Thomas had surgery to fix hand injuries that both played through during the 2007-08 season, on Tuesday."

Very short blurb here:

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=two_blue_devils_have_surgery&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

dw0827
04-01-2008, 06:51 PM
Lance Thomas?

Did I miss something somewhere?

BCGroup
04-01-2008, 06:53 PM
I was surprised too. Not much info on the blog, just that it was a torn tendon that healed funny.

-jk
04-01-2008, 06:53 PM
Lance Thomas?

Did I miss something somewhere?

Even the rumor mill fails us. Sometimes.

-jk

Jumbo
04-01-2008, 06:55 PM
Lance Thomas?

Did I miss something somewhere?

There are plenty of injuries that weren't announced.

juise
04-01-2008, 07:34 PM
There are plenty of injuries that weren't announced.

And dadgummit, that gets Roy fired up.

(I didn't actually follow that controversy too closely... I think it had to do more with K's comment than Duke's injury announcement policy, but I just felt like taking a little dig at Roy. :))

socaldukie
04-01-2008, 07:35 PM
I sure hope McClure can get 100% and STAY at 100% next year. The kid deserves the opportunity to play with good health.

Bluedog
04-01-2008, 09:57 PM
Don't think this has been linked yet:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1430790

Here's to a quick recovery! G will be out 12-16 weeks, while Lance is out 8-10 weeks. Four months seems like quite a long time, but I'm sure the doctors have designed a great rehab program for him.

edit: oops, apparently I can't see so well. Sorry for starting a new thread, but at least I supplied a different link!

jipops
04-01-2008, 10:35 PM
There are plenty of injuries that weren't announced.

But we all know this was "a bunch of bunk".

Ignatius07
04-01-2008, 10:56 PM
I didn't realize Gerald would be out so long to heal. It's really too bad since ball-handling is probably the easiest thing he can do to improve at this point, but he is noticeably worse going left so perhaps he can use this to his advantage and strengthen his abilities with his left hand.

HK Dukie
04-01-2008, 11:42 PM
I wish them a full and speedy recovery.

As a side note, it's probably difficult to write and take exams after surgeries like these. I wonder how they handle that and hope its not too much of a burden.

Jumbo
04-01-2008, 11:59 PM
I wish them a full and speedy recovery.

As a side note, it's probably difficult to write and take exams after surgeries like these. I wonder how they handle that and hope its not too much of a burden.

Really good point. I think we often forget how tough these kids' lives can be at Duke.

MonitorMom
04-02-2008, 08:26 AM
My son broke his neck in two places in high school, lost range of motion and has chronic pain and we're struggling to get extended time for finals at Duke. Think maybe Coach K could talk to the disability office when he's in there for G and Lance? Or do you think they'll get a denial too?

twisterduke81
04-02-2008, 08:49 AM
Best of luck to G and Lance in a speedy and uneventful recovery. I broke an ankle once during finals and getting around on crutches was miserable, not to mention what that distraction did for the GPA. Let's make sure they know we're all pulling for them.

ForeverBlowingBubbles
04-02-2008, 12:55 PM
Lance missing 2 months worth of off season lifting is one of the last things we needed... besides having a Lance with a hurt pinky next season.

Really unfortunate. I guess he can do some assortment of exercises to work his lower body.

weezie
04-02-2008, 04:31 PM
I didn't realize Gerald would be out so long to heal. It's really too bad since ball-handling is probably the easiest thing he can do to improve at this point, but he is noticeably worse going left so perhaps he can use this to his advantage and strengthen his abilities with his left hand.

Wasn't this one of the reasons that JJ developed into such a good shooter? Albeit, he injured himself at a much earlier age. G and LT will both come back stronger!

Son of Mojo
04-03-2008, 02:02 AM
Let's just hope for a fast recovery for both and that neither get set back too badly for their respective surgeries.

SupaDave
04-03-2008, 10:53 AM
Lance missing 2 months worth of off season lifting is one of the last things we needed... besides having a Lance with a hurt pinky next season.

Really unfortunate. I guess he can do some assortment of exercises to work his lower body.

It's not exactly the off-season just yet. School will be basically just ending when he is able to lift again. Not to many pinkys keep you from working on your footwork (or lifting weights for that matter).

kmspeaks
04-03-2008, 10:56 AM
Wasn't this one of the reasons that JJ developed into such a good shooter? Albeit, he injured himself at a much earlier age. G and LT will both come back stronger!

I don't know about an injury but I thought part of the reason JJ developed his shooting so well was that his hoop at his house was in a rocky gravel area so he couldn't really dribble.

Anyways here's to a speedy recovery and a great offseason for these two and all the guys.

Skitzle
04-03-2008, 11:39 AM
Lance missing 2 months worth of off season lifting is one of the last things we needed... besides having a Lance with a hurt pinky next season.

Really unfortunate. I guess he can do some assortment of exercises to work his lower body.

There have to be a good number of different strength exercises one can do without a pinkie (or hand) or even wrist for that matter.

Neither of these seem like major surgeries, and I can't expect that they will have a serious impact on the strength development (or general development) of either player this summer.

That said, I'm by know means a doctor or training expert. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of those areas can chime in.

SupaDave
04-03-2008, 11:49 AM
Can't coach RUNNING! Some of you need to go check out a weight room every now and then - there are TONS of things for them to work on.

Edouble
04-03-2008, 12:01 PM
Seems like G's biggest problem at Duke was his stamina during his freshman year. I'm sure he will be able to keep up with his running/endurance even with a brace on his wrist. Lance should certainly hit the weights, and if you had to do one exercise for overall body strength and mass, nothing beats squats, which he should be able to do with something on his pinky. No reason to think the recovery times on their hands should slow down their development in other departments, or even in the main areas they need to work on anyway (as someone noted, G's handles).

greybeard
04-03-2008, 12:25 PM
Both should take some time away from the game. Enjoy themselves. Play some soccer (sorry, Jman, couldn't help myself). ;)

Bay Area Duke Fan
04-03-2008, 12:40 PM
How can one say at this time that the surgeries were successful?

It seems to me that the success of these surgeries can only be determined after full recovery and return to playing on a regular basis.

Jumbo
04-03-2008, 04:35 PM
How can one say at this time that the surgeries were successful?

It seems to me that the success of these surgeries can only be determined after full recovery and return to playing on a regular basis.

Heh, good question. It seems like something doctors always say -- I assume it means the surgical part went as plans. A successful recovery would be something different, right?

freedevil
04-03-2008, 04:44 PM
I'm no medical expert, but I believe Jumbo's right about the whole "successful" thing (doctors do say it all the time, it seems). I think generally, we (the public), sort of take it for granted that the surgery itself is a tricky matter.

Jumbo
04-03-2008, 06:00 PM
I'm no medical expert ...

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?

ForeverBlowingBubbles
04-03-2008, 06:14 PM
my logic was just based on the fact that there are a lot of muscles connected to the ones in your pinky. You want the pinky to heal correctly and as quickly as possible so your not going to do any exercises that might strain the muscles or tendons near the injury. Try moving your hand without moving your pinky. Its pretty hard.

Also you would probably not want one arm to be a lot stronger then the other (or one side of the body for that matter).

I'm sure there are some exercises you can do to bypass using the hand too much, but I doubt the effectiveness will be anywhere close to the same effect as if his hand was healthy. Maybe if anyone is a trainer they could add some more insight.

I do know for a fact that his hand injury won't prevent him from lifting a fork or a glass full of thickly protein.

SilkyJ
04-03-2008, 06:43 PM
There are plenty of injuries that weren't announced.

This happens every year. We keep our injuries under wraps for the most part, I mean, why wouldn't you?


I didn't realize Gerald would be out so long to heal. It's really too bad since ball-handling is probably the easiest thing he can do to improve at this point, but he is noticeably worse going left so perhaps he can use this to his advantage and strengthen his abilities with his left hand.

He goes left?

:eek:


Both should take some time away from the game. Enjoy themselves. Play some soccer (sorry, Jman, couldn't help myself). ;)

Oh boy. With all the international competition we are going to see this summer against Team USA I bet we get a few more soccer posts...:p

jma4life
04-03-2008, 08:12 PM
Yea, I mean, they need to be cautious but I'm sure an effective lifting program can be developed for them despite their injuries. Running can certainly be coached too by the way.

I'm all for the soccer. I think Lance and Zoubek could benefit from getting some extra footwork in and soccer could help that. If I was ever working with a very tall, uncoordinated kid, I'd probably highly recommend soccer just because of the footwork development you'll get from it. Certainly did no harm to Luol Deng.

greybeard
04-03-2008, 09:58 PM
As I mentioned in my last post re McRoberts recently, practicing with the off hand not only improves that hand but also the on-hand. That had been my experience. In reading The Elusive Obvious, by you know who, I find that there is expert and imperical evidence to corroborate this and also to explain why, especially if your left hand is your off hand. Using your off-hand permits great progress but also allows learning without the baggage of out-of-sequence habbits of the strong hand. Feldenkrais writes that when the left side is the off side, the movement is much smoother and easier than on the strong side, the one you have practiced on much more stringently.

My personal experience, the smoothness I used to find in practicing short shots (the same form as long ones without the need to break form for results) created a smoother shot with my right.

So practicing with their left hands should have double benefits for the two guys. I'm sure that we will see if that is so, as there is no way that they will not practice lefty. None. BTW, when I dislocated my left shoulder, I was able to practice exclusively with one arm, although it was my dominant one.

I look for terrific things from both guys. Lance doesn't need to get stronger from weights; he will mature in his body naturally. He just needs to keep on enjoying the game!

Edouble
04-03-2008, 10:51 PM
Lance doesn't need to get stronger from weights; he will mature in his body naturally. He just needs to keep on enjoying the game!

Maybe we could just speed up the natural processes with four days of lifting a week with a few burgers and fries afterwards. Salmon is really good too. Shav's mom makes really good PB&Js; maybe she can give Lance's mom the recipe.

greybeard
04-04-2008, 12:45 PM
Maybe we could just speed up the natural processes with four days of lifting a week with a few burgers and fries afterwards. Salmon is really good too. Shav's mom makes really good PB&Js; maybe she can give Lance's mom the recipe.

Maybe he should go to school, enjoy life, and develop the poise and elan that makes him the graceful athlete that he is. If his hand heals, and he gets more touches, my opinion is that he will be an extremely effective player (and scorer), just the way he is.

On the other hand, he can overtrain like many athletes do, put more strain on his body (bones and connective tissue in the main), and increase the risk of injury. I recommend that he chose what is behind door no. 1. :cool:

In addition, screwing around with his left hand (and possibly his feet) might make him more clever, which was a trademark of this team, and promises to be in the next two. Clever is good. Weights dumb people down; dumb is not good.

jma4life
04-05-2008, 04:23 AM
A thorough lifting session can be completed with no problem in under an hour. If these kids can't find time for one free hour in their schedule, while still being able to live a college lifestyle, I'd be pretty surprised.

That said, I still don't see why you object so strongly to lifting. If you are simply worried about the health of these kids 30 years from now, maybe you have a point. But in the short term, there is no doubt that proper lifting will improve the athleticism, strength, power, and yes, grace of these athletes.

As long as you utilize sound training principles akin to what you might see an olympic sprinter use for example, (or an NFL corner back) and as long as you remember that lifting is secondary to sports improvement, then I think there is no reason that lifting will not help these players at least in the short term.

Unfortunately, I am not so sure of how productive the s&c program at Duke is as I have yet to see athletes transform themselves in ways that I have seen in other schools including many high schools with respectable strength and conditioning programs. I have not followed the football team closely enough and I feel that it might be related more to Coach K than the actual s&c program. There is no question that that is a major factor at many colleges.

And before people jump on me for questioning Duke's s&c, consider two things. One, very rarely do you see Duke athletes make substantial progress, progress that I frequently see made by athletes at other schools. Looking at Dunleavy this past offseason, you can see what good s&c can produce. Why didn't he make those improvements at Duke?

ANd secondly, poor s&c (and again, I do not know if that is the case with Duke or if it is just K's reluctance to utilize it, which is common to far too many basketball programs) is a problem at many big time schools. In fact, many Michigan fans were happy about getting Rich Rodriguez primarily because of the upgrade in the s&c (Carr was loyal to a lousy trainer. Sure enough, players have reported rapid progress in the one spring with this trainer and frankly, his reputation is not even that amazing, just better than the old guy)

And for the record, I would much rather be complaining about s&c than about the actual quality of the head coach so it is a problem I am glad to have if it means K is on the sidelines. No amount of s&c work can come close to doing what he does, but it is a problem I fear exists.

greybeard
04-05-2008, 05:43 PM
Yea, I mean, they need to be cautious but I'm sure an effective lifting program can be developed for them despite their injuries. Running can certainly be coached too by the way.

I'm all for the soccer. I think Lance and Zoubek could benefit from getting some extra footwork in and soccer could help that. If I was ever working with a very tall, uncoordinated kid, I'd probably highly recommend soccer just because of the footwork development you'll get from it. Certainly did no harm to Luol Deng.

Hakeem was a goalie before picking up a basketball shortly before college. Zoubek also was a goalie, btw. I saw him have an excellent first-move to the ball sophomore year that the guards could never match--never got him the ball early enough. Not to overstay my welcome, but aside from footwork and balance, soccer is a quick-decision, passing game like no other. Adds a fresh perspective, which is always enlivening if you want your team to play smart.

greybeard
04-08-2008, 03:40 PM
A thorough lifting session can be completed with no problem in under an hour. If these kids can't find time for one free hour in their schedule, while still being able to live a college lifestyle, I'd be pretty surprised.

That said, I still don't see why you object so strongly to lifting. If you are simply worried about the health of these kids 30 years from now, maybe you have a point. But in the short term, there is no doubt that proper lifting will improve the athleticism, strength, power, and yes, grace of these athletes.

As long as you utilize sound training principles akin to what you might see an olympic sprinter use for example, (or an NFL corner back) and as long as you remember that lifting is secondary to sports improvement, then I think there is no reason that lifting will not help these players at least in the short term.

Unfortunately, I am not so sure of how productive the s&c program at Duke is as I have yet to see athletes transform themselves in ways that I have seen in other schools including many high schools with respectable strength and conditioning programs. I have not followed the football team closely enough and I feel that it might be related more to Coach K than the actual s&c program. There is no question that that is a major factor at many colleges.

And before people jump on me for questioning Duke's s&c, consider two things. One, very rarely do you see Duke athletes make substantial progress, progress that I frequently see made by athletes at other schools. Looking at Dunleavy this past offseason, you can see what good s&c can produce. Why didn't he make those improvements at Duke?

ANd secondly, poor s&c (and again, I do not know if that is the case with Duke or if it is just K's reluctance to utilize it, which is common to far too many basketball programs) is a problem at many big time schools. In fact, many Michigan fans were happy about getting Rich Rodriguez primarily because of the upgrade in the s&c (Carr was loyal to a lousy trainer. Sure enough, players have reported rapid progress in the one spring with this trainer and frankly, his reputation is not even that amazing, just better than the old guy)

And for the record, I would much rather be complaining about s&c than about the actual quality of the head coach so it is a problem I am glad to have if it means K is on the sidelines. No amount of s&c work can come close to doing what he does, but it is a problem I fear exists.

I do not have a problem with weight or other training in the short or long run for athletes. I do have a problem, and a big one, with making the games that our young people play ever more "athletic," which translates into more dangerous, as in more productive of injury.

If you take someone as athletic as Lance and say that he "needs" to get stronger to be good, even great at college basketball, then there is, in my opinion, something wrong with college basketball. And, it is my opinion that there is plenty wrong with college basketball's overemphasis on explosive play. Explosive play produces excitement but also produces injury.

Was anyone else underwhelmed by the lead-in piece to the final game last night, that had the high lights to the tournament. Every one of the pictures displayed, every single one, either was of some guy making a monster dunk, who striking a Hulk-Hogan type pose to show off his guns and shoulder muscles, presumably after having made some terrific athletic play.

The only picture of a dunk that I saw this last week that did not have a steroid-like image attached to it was of that poor kid from Kansas who needed one last expression of all the work he had put in to become the super athlete he was before the first game he was to play in San Antonio. A monster dunk to end practice. To me, that says it all.

Until coaches and shoe companies and ESPN and the networks and the fans got a gripe on priorities, I say take the weights and shove em.

Gee, isn't it great that that hall of fame coach at Tennessee is so great to her star player that she provides her with all those different types of healing arts so the young woman can go out and win her coach another NCAA Championship even though she has a ridiculously unstable shoulder? Right!