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Skitzle
04-01-2008, 02:28 PM
Figure we should post all of these in one place.

Both Lopez brothers declared for the draft today.

I'm surprised to see Robin go. Feel like he could have used another year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3322897

SilkyJ
04-01-2008, 02:36 PM
^agree Re: Robin. Could probably use 2 years to refine his offense, and I have to imagine he would get a lot of touches now that Brook is gone. Wouldn't be surprised if he is just testing the waters and returns for at least one more year.

Skitzle
04-01-2008, 02:40 PM
^agree Re: Robin. Could probably use 2 years to refine his offense, and I have to imagine he would get a lot of touches now that Brook is gone. Wouldn't be surprised if he is just testing the waters and returns for at least one more year.


According to Pat Ford, they've hired an agent

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=InOut

Also according to Ford, Hansborough, Lawson, Collison, and Love are all on the fence about joining the draft. Its amazing how much impact 4 players can have on the projections for next years the National College basketball scene if all choose to stay/leave.

Bluedog
04-01-2008, 03:06 PM
Also according to Ford, Hansborough, Lawson, Collison, and Love are all on the fence about joining the draft. Its amazing how much impact 4 players can have on the projections for next years the National College basketball scene if all choose to stay/leave.

I mean, that article also puts Gerald in the same category. So, I don't think it's really that "they're on the fence" or "50/50: Players who are still deciding about declaring for the draft," but rather just a list of players who haven't made an official announcement one way or the other, but project to be NBA players.

tommy
04-01-2008, 04:01 PM
I mean, that article also puts Gerald in the same category. So, I don't think it's really that "they're on the fence" or "50/50: Players who are still deciding about declaring for the draft," but rather just a list of players who haven't made an official announcement one way or the other, but project to be NBA players.

I think it's more that Ford, who writes a lot of moronic things, just doesn't have any sources close to the players and therefore doesn't have any information. So he says they're "on the fence" to cover himself either way.

ugadevil
04-01-2008, 04:38 PM
I mean, that article also puts Gerald in the same category. So, I don't think it's really that "they're on the fence" or "50/50: Players who are still deciding about declaring for the draft," but rather just a list of players who haven't made an official announcement one way or the other, but project to be NBA players.

Is Gerald even going to make an official announcement about staying school? I guess we're not sure until the official day to declare has passed, but I'd think that Gerald is already working on his play for next season with Duke.

Clipsfan
04-01-2008, 08:27 PM
According to Pat Ford, they've hired an agent

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=InOut

Also according to Ford, Hansborough, Lawson, Collison, and Love are all on the fence about joining the draft. Its amazing how much impact 4 players can have on the projections for next years the National College basketball scene if all choose to stay/leave.

I am also surprised that Robin would have declared AND hired an agent, given that he would probably be a higher pick after one more year in school. Going at the same time as his brother is also only going to push him further down the draft order. Brook was a no-brainer after his strong play at the end of the season and his inattention to academics.

I would be surprised if Love stayed, given that his mom was quoted recently as saying something along the lines of "If you're in the lottery, you've got to go pro and take the money." Collison is probably gone as well, although I hope that he does stay. I think that Lawson will leave, but I can't help but think that Hansbrough will want to set the records he'd be in line to set if he stays one more year. I'm in the camp that thinks his glory days are in the NCAA, not the NBA. There are quite a few other underclassmen who haven't declared yet (as far as I know) but are likely to leave early. Several of them are still playing in the tourney...

SoCalDukeFan
04-01-2008, 08:44 PM
He lists Davon Jefferson as one foot out the door. But earlier reports had him staying.

I wonder if Ford knows anything or not.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7963770/Source:-USC-freshman-Jefferson-will-return

SoCal

Bluedog
04-01-2008, 09:02 PM
He lists Davon Jefferson as one foot out the door. But earlier reports had him staying.

I wonder if Ford knows anything or not.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7963770/Source:-USC-freshman-Jefferson-will-return

SoCal

Wow, Jefferson was 21 years old BEFORE beginning his freshman season (or at least, less than a month in)?!?! That is craziness! Is it common for parents to hold back their children so they can physically mature? I guess there could be alternate reasons. And I thought Hansbrough was insanely old for his year. Are there any players currently on the Duke team that are really old for their year?

norduck
04-01-2008, 09:53 PM
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=hansbrough_s_decision_still_up_in_ the_ai&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

moonpie23
04-01-2008, 10:01 PM
go back to all the things felton and may were saying about this same time. I STILL think that lawson is GONE....only because he has seen the spectre of his NBA career going away with another injury. What's he majoring in? Pre Med? Nuclear Physics? boolean Algebra?


can you imagine hans's stock being ANY better next year? what? cause of a title? doubtful...


can you see him with a CAST on his leg?

chrisM
04-02-2008, 09:52 AM
can you imagine hans's stock being ANY better next year? what? cause of a title? doubtful...
can you see him with a CAST on his leg?

Hansbrough's dad is a doctor. He can pay for insurance for Tyler. In fact, the rumor is, he has- at the 4 million maximum the NCAA will allow. Not quite an NBA payday, but enough that the thought of losing the NBA wouldn't be the end of it all.

Lawson's family, not so much. I would not be surprised to see Lawson go, even in UNC doesn't win another game. I would be (mildly) surprised to see Tyler go, if UNC loses their next game.

By contrast, back in 2005, I felt that they all would go, even May and Williams.

Chris

brevity
04-04-2008, 01:06 AM
"Cal sophomore forward Ryan Anderson, a first-team All-Pac-10 selection who led the league in scoring, announced Thursday he has made himself eligible for the 2008 NBA draft. He will not sign with an agent, leaving him the option of returning to Cal for his junior season."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3328301

Definitely, probably, or potentially: Brook Lopez, Robin Lopez, O.J. Mayo, Kevin Love, Jerryd Bayless, Russell Westbrook, Ryan Anderson, Darrin Collison, Kyle Weaver, DeVon Hardin, Lorenzo Mata-Real, Derrick Low, Malik Hairston, Davon Jefferson. This draft looks like it might have a Pac-10 flavor.

Cormac
04-04-2008, 12:45 PM
Eric Gordon is entering the draft. No surprise here. I think this leaves Crean with 5 returning scholarship players. Ouch. Of course he could always let the suspended players back on the team too.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=395474

Clipsfan
04-04-2008, 02:19 PM
Wow, Jefferson was 21 years old BEFORE beginning his freshman season (or at least, less than a month in)?!?! That is craziness! Is it common for parents to hold back their children so they can physically mature? I guess there could be alternate reasons. And I thought Hansbrough was insanely old for his year. Are there any players currently on the Duke team that are really old for their year?

Taj Gibson (also on USC) is even older for his year. I think he's 23 (24 now?) and a sophomore.

bdh21
04-04-2008, 03:37 PM
go back to all the things felton and may were saying about this same time. I STILL think that lawson is GONE....only because he has seen the spectre of his NBA career going away with another injury. What's he majoring in? Pre Med? Nuclear Physics? boolean Algebra?


I'm sure there's plenty you can do with a degree in boolean Algebra, but for the life of me I can't think of what it'd be.

Indoor66
04-04-2008, 04:26 PM
Taj Gibson (also on USC) is even older for his year. I think he's 23 (24 now?) and a sophomore.

George Moses played for Duke in '75 & '76. He was a JC player who was 25 or 26 when he came into Duke. Of course, he had completed his Army service.

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=270

BD80
04-05-2008, 05:50 PM
Bayless gone, hiring agent and all:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7990712/Arizona-freshman-Bayless-to-enter-NBA-draft

Coming back just got to be a bit less fun for Lute. Let's see if it influences Budinger.

Still nothing from DBR about the Hansen suspension.

JasonEvans
04-05-2008, 07:33 PM
Jerryd Bayless, the stud freshman guard that led the Wildcats in scoring this season is off to the NBA. (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;_ylt=AmowlKx5ZwleKYA3EYJMpOzevbYF?slug=ap-arizona-bayless&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Not a huge surprise but still a significant loss for Zona. If he had come back along with the other youngsters (their best players were all freshmen and sophs) then Arizona was looking very strong for next season, almost certainly a top 10 team. The notion of a backcourt of Bayless, Nic Wise, and superstar freshman Brandon Jennings would have been quite formidable (though I am not sure how they would have shared the ball).

The question now is if anyone else will join him in leaving. I think Chase Buddinger is a potential lottery pick too.

--Jason "the PGs in this year's draft will be sick!!" Evans

BD80
04-05-2008, 08:47 PM
I think Chase Buddinger is a potential lottery pick too.

--Jason "the PGs in this year's draft will be sick!!" Evans

I agree about Buddinger, but he won't be picked by any team that places a premium on defense (but then most lottery teams don't play D). He is as soft as melted ice cream.

Who are the great PGs? Rose, Lawson and Collison (if he goes, but I don't think he will be that great at the next level) are PGs. The rest are combo guards that aren't suited for the position. Gordon and Bayless didn't play PG for their teams and Mayo essentially shared the spot with 2 others. Mayo will have a lot of trouble with quick PGs at the next level. Gordon and Bayless will be tweeners like Chicago's Ben Gordon, who can't guard anyone in the NBA and doesn't create offense for anyone but himself.

Double DD
04-05-2008, 09:25 PM
Wow, Jefferson was 21 years old BEFORE beginning his freshman season (or at least, less than a month in)?!?! That is craziness! Is it common for parents to hold back their children so they can physically mature? I guess there could be alternate reasons. And I thought Hansbrough was insanely old for his year. Are there any players currently on the Duke team that are really old for their year?

Jefferson was originally a UNLV commit in the high school class of 2005 but couldn't qualify. He then went to prep school for a year and signed with USC in 2006, but ended getting kicked off his prep team for academic issues and once again couldn't get eligible. He then had to wait a year doing correspondence courses before he could get his grades high enough to get past the NCAA clearinghouse.

brevity
04-06-2008, 01:40 AM
Who are the great PGs? Rose, Lawson and Collison (if he goes, but I don't think he will be that great at the next level) are PGs. The rest are combo guards that aren't suited for the position.

What about D.J. Augustin?

I'm not hearing much about his interest in the 2008 draft. It's almost time to make my year-in-advance picks for the 2009 Final Four, and I'm considering Texas as a candidate. But it totally rides on whether he stays or goes. I hope he realizes that he's going to fall below Rose, Bayless, Gordon, and Westbrook and waits another year.

brevity
04-06-2008, 01:41 AM
"Louisville sophomore forward Earl Clark will skip his final two seasons and enter the NBA draft... He is the second Louisville player to decide to leave early. Forward Derrick Caracter announced he would skip his final two years."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/ncaa/04/05/louisville.clark.ap/index.html

JasonEvans
04-06-2008, 07:18 AM
A couple interesting notes in this column (http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Early-Entry-List-Analysis/) from DraftExpress.

Gerald Henderson's wrist surgery essentially rules him out of the draft as it makes it impossible for him to work out for teams. I never felt there was much of a chance of him leaving anyway, but this seals the deal.

Lots of talk that Blake Griffin will stay one more year at Oklahoma. He apparently loves Coach Capel. OU could be really good next year. They bring in some JUCO big men to help out inside and have a stud PG recruit in Willie Warren.

--Jason "two guys that I am very glad to see coming back!" Evans

MarkD83
04-06-2008, 07:44 AM
After monday the worst part of the college basketball year begins. Any news we hear will be bad news as players declare for the NBA. This is true even if some of UNC players declare for the draft. This sounds blasphemous, but if ACC players declare for the draft then next year will be ANOTHER down year for the ACC (according to the TV experts). Another down year means that the ACC will again get only 3,4 or (if lucky) 5 NCAA bids and a team that is above 0.500 in the league will be on the bubble.

JasonEvans
04-06-2008, 08:13 AM
After monday the worst part of the college basketball year begins. Any news we hear will be bad news as players declare for the NBA. This is true even if some of UNC players declare for the draft. This sounds blasphemous, but if ACC players declare for the draft then next year will be ANOTHER down year for the ACC (according to the TV experts). Another down year means that the ACC will again get only 3,4 or (if lucky) 5 NCAA bids and a team that is above 0.500 in the league will be on the bubble.

The strength of Duke and UNC at the top of the ACC combined with the fact that there are no guaranteed wins at the bottom of the league make it very hard for the ACC to get more than 4 or 5 bids.

I am hearing that Hickson will test that waters but not hire an agent and may come back, which (in theory) could help NC State. Aside from the potential Carolina departures, I am not sure who else the ACC might lose. Rice could consider it, but with so many stud combo guards likely ahead of him, I think he stays. He's a 2nd rounder unless he has amazing workouts.

--Jason "the Pac 10 loses a lot to the draft, I think and the BEast will be hurt worse than the ACC too" Evans

soccerstud2210
04-06-2008, 08:33 AM
What about D.J. Augustin?

I'm not hearing much about his interest in the 2008 draft. It's almost time to make my year-in-advance picks for the 2009 Final Four, and I'm considering Texas as a candidate. But it totally rides on whether he stays or goes. I hope he realizes that he's going to fall below Rose, Bayless, Gordon, and Westbrook and waits another year.

have you ever watched d.j. play? I would put him up there above bayless, gordon, and maybe even westbrook...

Jumbo
04-06-2008, 12:09 PM
After monday the worst part of the college basketball year begins. Any news we hear will be bad news as players declare for the NBA. This is true even if some of UNC players declare for the draft. This sounds blasphemous, but if ACC players declare for the draft then next year will be ANOTHER down year for the ACC (according to the TV experts). Another down year means that the ACC will again get only 3,4 or (if lucky) 5 NCAA bids and a team that is above 0.500 in the league will be on the bubble.

I used to feel this way. But in the last year or two, something finally hit home -- come November, nobody remembers who "could have" been there. People only care about the current rosters. If kids aren't interested in college, let them go. If kids want chase an NBA dream, let them go. If this leads to a watered-down product, so be it; as Jerry Seinfeld said, we're essentially rooting for laundry anyway. At this point, more players leaving is good for Duke. If we make the Final Four next year or even win a title, no one will care that Beasley, Rose, Gordon, etc. left after a year of college.

Troublemaker
04-06-2008, 12:16 PM
What about D.J. Augustin?

I'm not hearing much about his interest in the 2008 draft. It's almost time to make my year-in-advance picks for the 2009 Final Four, and I'm considering Texas as a candidate. But it totally rides on whether he stays or goes. I hope he realizes that he's going to fall below Rose, Bayless, Gordon, and Westbrook and waits another year.

Out of all the Fab Frosh and Super Sophs projected in the lottery, I think Augustin and his 3.6 GPA have the best chance of staying. By most accounts, he's a true student-athlete and Duke-type player. Right now, I have Texas as pre-season 1 or 2 depending on what happens at UNC. Duke would not be far behind in these absurdly early rankings.

Troublemaker
04-06-2008, 12:18 PM
I used to feel this way. But in the last year or two, something finally hit home -- come November, nobody remembers who "could have" been there. People only care about the current rosters. If kids aren't interested in college, let them go. If kids want chase an NBA dream, let them go. If this leads to a watered-down product, so be it; as Jerry Seinfeld said, we're essentially rooting for laundry anyway. At this point, more players leaving is good for Duke. If we make the Final Four next year or even win a title, no one will care that Beasley, Rose, Gordon, etc. left after a year of college.

I agree. And I am unabashedly rooting for as many early defections as possible. Also, I think the ACC will be a very strong conference relative to the country regardless of what JJ Hickson and UNC's players decide. I hope they all go.

KandG
04-06-2008, 12:26 PM
I used to feel this way. But in the last year or two, something finally hit home -- come November, nobody remembers who "could have" been there. People only care about the current rosters. If kids aren't interested in college, let them go. If kids want chase an NBA dream, let them go. If this leads to a watered-down product, so be it; as Jerry Seinfeld said, we're essentially rooting for laundry anyway. At this point, more players leaving is good for Duke. If we make the Final Four next year or even win a title, no one will care that Beasley, Rose, Gordon, etc. left after a year of college.



Hate to be a dittohead here, but these are my thoughts to a T. Duke has been hit as hard as anyone by defections, and the impact of the NBA's "go to school for one year rule" on recruiting and the more wildly shifting balance of power that has resulted. So let em all go.

My gut tells me that Lawson is going, and that Hansborough should go (even though he may very well stay). I think if Hans stays, it's because he really does value the college experience and breaking all the records -- I don't think he could improve his stock much more, and he may even hurt it slightly.

brevity
04-08-2008, 03:28 PM
Seems like Lute Olson's return to normalcy is not having the desired effect?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3336259

"Arizona forward Chase Budinger has opted to try his luck in the NBA draft, according to media reports. Budinger, a sophomore, has joined teammate Jerryd Bayless in declaring for the NBA draft. But unlike Bayless, Budinger will not hire an agent, keeping his options open to return to Arizona for next season should his likely draft position not prove favorable."

Clipsfan
04-08-2008, 03:52 PM
This is the latest from NBAdraft.net on the final four teams. They are up to the minute with their updates.

Likely to leave:

Arthur and Rush, Kansas
Collison, Love, Westbrook, UCLA
Lawson and Ellington, UNC
Rose and C.Douglas Roberts, Memphis

On the fence:

Chamers, Kansas
Hansblow, UNC
Moute and Shipp, UCLA

Seniors:

Thomas, UNC
Kaun, Jackson, and Robinson, Kansas
Mata-Real, UCLA
Dorsey, Memphis

I hope they are all gone. They list Henderson and Singler in "most likely returning" list.

I've paid a lot more attention to UCLA and UNC than the other two teams, but the fact that they consider Shipp and Mbah a Moute as even on the fence for the draft shows that they don't know what they're doing. Shipp is a guy with one key ability (hit the 3) who shot 21% from 3 over his last 14 games. Mbah a Moute is still really raw in general and needs to learn to shoot, period. I can't imagine that either is anywhere near a first round pick nor would they go pro without being one. Unfortunately, Collison, Love and Westbrook are all likely to leave.

MIKESJ73
04-08-2008, 04:32 PM
Actually today Moute was moved up to "likely to leave", Budinger and Speights also to test the waters.

SilkyJ
04-08-2008, 04:50 PM
go back to all the things felton and may were saying about this same time. I STILL think that lawson is GONE....only because he has seen the spectre of his NBA career going away with another injury.

Your rationale makes sense, but if you count that out, I'd have to say I think he stays. At BEST, he'd be the 4th PG taken after rose, mayo, bayless, which almost certainly means he falls out of the lottery (and he could easily fall behind others like collison, westbrook, gordon, and augustin if he goes).

Or as jason put its:



--Jason "the PGs in this year's draft will be sick!!" Evans



can you imagine hans's stock being ANY better next year? what? cause of a title? doubtful...


I can actually b/c he has started to develop his game facing the basket, which is the aspect of his game most lacking and, more importantly, would go the furthest to proving to scouts that his game can translate to the NBA. If he can start draining 15-18 footers and driving to the basket from the elbow, he moves into the lottery. With his work ethic and ability, I think its every likely that he could significantly improve that aspect of his game by next year.

MChambers
04-08-2008, 09:06 PM
I've paid a lot more attention to UCLA and UNC than the other two teams, but the fact that they consider Shipp and Mbah a Moute as even on the fence for the draft shows that they don't know what they're doing. Shipp is a guy with one key ability (hit the 3) who shot 21% from 3 over his last 14 games. Mbah a Moute is still really raw in general and needs to learn to shoot, period. I can't imagine that either is anywhere near a first round pick nor would they go pro without being one. Unfortunately, Collison, Love and Westbrook are all likely to leave.

Why do you think a player would need to be near a first round pick to leave early? History shows otherwise. Is there something about Shipp or Mbah a Moute that makes them different?

pfrduke
04-08-2008, 09:34 PM
Florida's Marreese Speights is in (with no agent). LSU's Anthony Randolph is in (with agent).

Nugget
04-08-2008, 09:44 PM
Either they have to retire the Scotty Thurman "cost himself in the draft by coming back for another season" award or NBADraft.net is on crack if, as they project, Roy Hibbert would not go until the 25th pick.

Seriously, how could anyone possibly take Robin Lopez, Darrell Arthur or Darren Collison before Hibbert?

CDu
04-08-2008, 10:37 PM
Either they have to retire the Scotty Thurman "cost himself in the draft by coming back for another season" award or NBADraft.net is on crack if, as they project, Roy Hibbert would not go until the 25th pick.

Seriously, how could anyone possibly take Robin Lopez, Darrell Arthur or Darren Collison before Hibbert?

For the record, ESPN also has Hibbert projected in the late first round (23rd). I wouldn't put much stock in NBADraft.net or ESPN this early, but don't be surprised to see Hibbert be a mid/late first rounder. And I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Arthur or Collison go ahead of Hibbert. ESPN has Robin Lopez well behind Hibbert.

Arthur is a very gifted power forward. He's extremely athletic, has good touch, plays well defensively. Most importantly, though, he's a power forward. So it's not really relevant to compare them. Lopez would be a reach, but at least he's really athletic along with being 7-feet tall. If I matched either Arthur or Lopez up against Hibbert, I'd honestly expect Lopez or Hibbert to win the matchup. And Collison plays a different position, so it's an irrelevant comparison. I'd absolutely not be surprised to see Collison and Arthur go ahead of Hibbert.

Hibbert has been highly overrated in my opinion. Nobody who is 7'2" should average only 6 rebounds per game. Hibbert is very big, but he's a plodding, methodical, unathletic big man who tends to disappear in games at the college level. He's really slow, can't jump, and doesn't dominate in the paint. At the NBA level (where his big height advantage disappears in large part), I don't see great things. He really should have left after last season, because he really hasn't been that impressive this season. And 13 points, six rebounds per game is not terribly exciting from a 7'2" senior.

yancem
04-08-2008, 11:25 PM
Either they have to retire the Scotty Thurman "cost himself in the draft by coming back for another season" award or NBADraft.net is on crack if, as they project, Roy Hibbert would not go until the 25th pick.

Seriously, how could anyone possibly take Robin Lopez, Darrell Arthur or Darren Collison before Hibbert?

First off, did you watch Arthur in the final four. He's pretty good! Second, welcome to the world of the nba draft. My guess is many if not most players that are likely early to mid first round picks but decide to come back for their senior year drop in the draft. The nba executives seem to covet upside more than current abilities. Hibbert showed upside after last year but didn't show any or at least not much improvement so people start to wonder if he's as good as he's going to get.

This is why I think that Lawson will most likely declare. If he comes back and doesn't put up better numbers or show a decent improvement on his outside touch, it could hurt him even if next year's draft is weaker. There always seems to be someone with upside.

pratt '04
04-08-2008, 11:44 PM
Add Kevin Love and Darren Collison to the list of early entrants. They will both hire agents.

espn.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3337166)

pratt '04
04-08-2008, 11:46 PM
Donte Greene of Syracuse is leaving early for the draft too. He'll also hire an agent.

draftexpress.com (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Breaking-News-Donte-Greene-Entering-Draft-/)

JasonEvans
04-09-2008, 12:43 AM
Ronald Steele of Alabama is entering the draft (http://media.www.cw.ua.edu/media/storage/paper959/news/2008/04/09/Sports/Ron-Steele.Enters.Name.Into.Nba.Draft-3311535.shtml) too. Bama is having a very tough offseason. Hendrix is also entering the draft and they have 2 guards who are transferring - 1 a frosh and 1 a soph.

To all the folks who wring their hands over Duke losing 1 transfer, try being Bama and losing 4 kids in less than a week!!

--Jason "Ron Steel was a real stud at one point-- but blew out his knee nad has never been the same-- he shoulda entered the draft after his soph season!" Evans

JasonEvans
04-09-2008, 12:49 AM
Either they have to retire the Scotty Thurman "cost himself in the draft by coming back for another season" award or NBADraft.net is on crack if, as they project, Roy Hibbert would not go until the 25th pick.


It has been said over and over again... if you are lottery bound, you need to come out. The risk in staying is just too great -- especially for those guys who are not athletic freaks who could easily see their stock fall drastically.

-Jason "I am going to move these general draft discussions to the draft thread and out of the Carolina draft thread" Evans

mgtr
04-09-2008, 01:36 AM
Seriously, how could anyone possibly take Robin Lopez, Darrell Arthur or Darren Collison before Hibbert?

I thought that Darrell Arthur was the only player in the final four who clearly increased his stock in the final four games.

BD80
04-09-2008, 08:27 AM
Didn't see this elsewhere on the board:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8003716/Report:-UCLA's-Love,-Collison-to-declare-for-NBA-draft

Reportedly they are hiring agents, so no coming back.

So much for Dickie V's top five prediction for next year, I don't care how highly ranked the incoming recruits are, next year's entire class wouldn't make up for losing these two.

Mods: Please delete: this dulicates a post in Draft 2008

freedevil
04-09-2008, 08:38 AM
On ESPN Insider, parents of both players are denying that their children have made their decisions yet.

whereinthehellami
04-09-2008, 08:39 AM
Add Kevin Love and Darren Collison to the list of early entrants. They will both hire agents.

espn.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3337166)

Losing Love kills their chances at getting back to the final four.

freedevil
04-09-2008, 08:46 AM
As posted in another thread, ESPN Insider is reporting that the parents of Love and Collison are denying that their sons have made their decisions.

GopherBlue
04-09-2008, 11:09 AM
If you hold the lucky ping-pong balls, who do you pick at #1?

Beasley seems to be the logical pick - he is a monster. But I've also seen mention from several NBA camps that Rose may be the pick. Rose will undoubtedly be an impact player in the league, but players with Beasley's size, athleticism, and skills do not come along often. On the other hand, this may simply be pre-draft posturing.

For my money, I'd go with Beasley.

Skitzle
04-09-2008, 12:06 PM
If you hold the lucky ping-pong balls, who do you pick at #1?

Beasley seems to be the logical pick - he is a monster. But I've also seen mention from several NBA camps that Rose may be the pick. Rose will undoubtedly be an impact player in the league, but players with Beasley's size, athleticism, and skills do not come along often. On the other hand, this may simply be pre-draft posturing.

For my money, I'd go with Beasley.

Depends on need, but a PG with Rose's potential ceiling doesn't come around very often. If the team with first pick doesn't have have an A- or better PG I think they have to take Rose.

BlueintheFace
04-09-2008, 12:11 PM
Here is the list of those who have DEFINITELY declared as of today---

Ryan Anderson (Cal)
Jerryd Bayless (Zona)
Chase Budinger (Zona)
Derrick Caracter (Lville)
Earl Clark (Lville)
Eric Gordon (Indiana)
Richard Hendrix (Bama)
JJ Hickson (NC State)
Brook Lopez (Stan)
Robin Lopez (Stan)
JaVale McGee (Nevada)
Anthony Randolph (LSU)
Marreese Speights (Florida)
Ronald Steele (Bama)
Robert Vaden (UAB)
Terrence Williams (Lville)

Chitowndevil
04-09-2008, 12:52 PM
Depends on need, but a PG with Rose's potential ceiling doesn't come around very often. If the team with first pick doesn't have have an A- or better PG I think they have to take Rose.

It's tough to look at what Chris Paul and also Deron Williams are doing for their teams and not take Rose at #1.

matrix1686
04-09-2008, 03:01 PM
If you look at the Heat with Dwayne Wade and no inside presence then it makes more sense to take Beasley, but a team like the Sonics could use Rose more. Either player is great, but I think it all depends on the team that lands the #1 pick. That said, I would take Rose as long as I didn't have a good point guard already or no inside scoring options.




JasonEvans Quote:

It has been said over and over again... if you are lottery bound, you need to come out. The risk in staying is just too great -- especially for those guys who are not athletic freaks who could easily see their stock fall drastically.

I disagree to some extent. I think it really depends on where you were ranked in High School. Somebody like Patrick O'Bryant who came out a few years ago and was drafted by the Warriors should definitely come out. He went from hardly ranked at all in HS to being considered a first rounder and eventually lottery pick. You have to take that.

But somebody like McRoberts who was rated #1 in his class or at least top 5 shouldn't come out unless they know they are at least top 5 or maybe top 10. He probably should have left straight after HS, but I still wouldn't have left after his first season. He was said to have been a late lottery pick possibly, but the scouts would have seen the holes and he would have still slid. McRoberts should have stayed this year or played all four years until he knew he could either reach his potential as a Top 5 pick or had a college degree.

CDu
04-09-2008, 03:10 PM
But somebody like McRoberts who was rated #1 in his class or at least top 5 shouldn't come out unless they know they are at least top 5 or maybe top 10. He probably should have left straight after HS, but I still wouldn't have left after his first season. He was said to have been a late lottery pick possibly, but the scouts would have seen the holes and he would have still slid. McRoberts should have stayed this year or played all four years until he knew he could either reach his potential as a Top 5 pick or had a college degree.

McRoberts probably should have gone out of high school. Having not gone out of high school, he should have gone after his freshman year. That was the "down" year for the draft because there were no high schoolers allowed in the draft.

I agree that leaving after his sophomore year made no sense. But it sounds like he'd made his mind up that he wanted to get to the NBA after two years, and that was that. It's unfortunate, because his skill set would have been a perfect fit with this year's team. But, unfortunately for him and for us, he decided against returning.

SilkyJ
04-09-2008, 08:17 PM
players with Beasley's size, athleticism, and skills do not come along often. On the other hand, this may simply be pre-draft posturing.

For my money, I'd go with Beasley.

Its true, but its also true that players with Rose's size, athleticism, and skills do not come along that often, AT HIS POSITION. Rose is built like lebron, but is as quick and deft as Chris paul, and can shoot it. Did anyone see the double cluch two-fisted slam he had against texas? Kid's gonna be a star. Then again, so is beasley, so I don't know who I'd take...I guess I would do it based on need (i.e. if I already have a solid PG but no inside presence, I'd take Beasley and vice versa WRT Rose)

SilkyJ
04-09-2008, 08:23 PM
Erroneous! Erroneous on both counts!

I know others posted that ESPN insider was saying that the parents were disputing the original report that they were turning pro. This is a REGULAR ESPN article, and the remarks are from Howland. Same basic story though: they have not made their minds up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3338693

pratt '04
04-09-2008, 08:42 PM
Joe Alexander of WVU is going to test the waters:

espn.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3338652)

freedevil
04-09-2008, 08:59 PM
Joe Alexander of WVU is going to test the waters:

espn.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3338652)

I hope he goes to workouts and gets dunked on by a healthy DeMarcus Nelson. I can't stand that kid.

superdave
04-09-2008, 09:19 PM
Did you guys see how badly he disappeared in their round 2 loss a few weeks ago? He took 3 maybe 4 shots in the 2nd half and was playing hot potato with the ball. I doubt discerning teams and scouts will like Beasley's work ethic compared to Rose. I'd go Rose all the way or move the pick.

pratt '04
04-09-2008, 11:26 PM
No surprise here, but OJ Mayo has announced that he will enter the draft and hire an agent. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3338940)

whereinthehellami
04-10-2008, 08:49 AM
Here is the list of those who have DEFINITELY declared as of today---

Ryan Anderson (Cal)
Jerryd Bayless (Zona)
Chase Budinger (Zona)
Derrick Caracter (Lville)
Earl Clark (Lville)
Eric Gordon (Indiana)
Richard Hendrix (Bama)
JJ Hickson (NC State)
Brook Lopez (Stan)
Robin Lopez (Stan)
JaVale McGee (Nevada)
Anthony Randolph (LSU)
Marreese Speights (Florida)
Ronald Steele (Bama)
Robert Vaden (UAB)
Terrence Williams (Lville)

Who signed with an agent, exhausting their eligibility?

brevity
04-14-2008, 08:24 PM
In a stunning development, Michael Beasley declared for the draft.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3346643

billybreen
04-14-2008, 08:36 PM
In a stunning development, Michael Beasley declared for the draft.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3346643

I'm guessing he's #1.

JasonEvans
04-15-2008, 06:26 AM
I'm guessing he's #1.

A lot of folks are saying it could be Rose. I think it will depend upon who gets the pick. There are some teams (Minnesota and NY come to mind right away) who need a PG more than a stud big man.

-Jason "I'd take Rose, I think" Evans

JasonEvans
04-15-2008, 06:36 AM
Several more entering the draft--

Here is a report (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-15-pb3apr15,0,3023416.story) that Derrick Rose will go in and hire Arn Tellem as his agent. Not at all a surprise.

NBADraft.net is reporting that John Riek will attend the Orlando pre-draft camp. So much for him coming to Duke ;)

Here is an article (http://www.sbsun.com/sports/ci_8915769)that says pretty much the entire UCLA team is going into the draft. Love will go in and hire an agent. Collison will go in and the UCAL staff does not expect him to come back. Westbrook is leaning toward going in but won't hire an agent. Shipp and Mbah a Moute are going to go in to get evaluated but are leaning toward coming back to school. So much for UCLA as a top ten team next year!

Finally, here is the latest from WRAL (http://www.wral.com/sports/story/2734598/)on the Carolina trio. It indicates that no one has made up their mind yet.

-Jason "2 weeks left to put your name in" Evans

JasonEvans
04-15-2008, 07:49 AM
One more-- Draftexpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2008-NBA-Draft-Early-Entry-List-/)says Gonzaga PG Jeremy Pargo will enter the draft, but without an agent. As a likely 2nd rounder and in a draft full of stud PG prospects, I would expect him to come back to school for what could be a very legit run at the Final Four and maybe even the national title at Gonzaga.

--Jason "next year will likely be the best Zags team since they began their remarkable run a decade or so ago" Evans

SilkyJ
04-15-2008, 01:03 PM
A lot of folks are saying it could be Rose. I think it will depend upon who gets the pick. There are some teams (Minnesota and NY come to mind right away) who need a PG more than a stud big man.

-Jason "I'd take Rose, I think" Evans

Chad Ford is reporting that Rose will enter the draft, though I believe is he just quoting an earlier story, so I don't think its a true "confirmation." (probably a foregone conclusion anyways...)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3347737

Count me in with Jason: I think I'd take Rose #1

Clipsfan
04-15-2008, 04:00 PM
Chad Ford is reporting that Rose will enter the draft, though I believe is he just quoting an earlier story, so I don't think its a true "confirmation." (probably a foregone conclusion anyways...)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3347737

Count me in with Jason: I think I'd take Rose #1

I don't know how reliable Ford is. He still has Gerald as a 50/50 guy, despite the surgery etc.

brevity
04-18-2008, 08:11 PM
Add CDR and LRMaM to the list:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3353467

"Memphis All-American guard Chris Douglas-Roberts will enter the NBA draft, joining teammate Derrick Rose as an early entry to the pros, the school announced Friday."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3353630

"Luc Richard Mbah a Moute is the latest UCLA player intending to leave early for the NBA. The junior forward said Friday he will enter the draft. The 6-foot-8 Mbah a Moute won't hire an agent right away, keeping him eligible to return to UCLA for his senior year."

BD80
04-21-2008, 12:23 PM
Hold the hummus, Kostos Koufos declaring:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8056224/Buckeyes'-Koufos-will-declare,-won't-hire-agent

He'd be a great late first rounder, let him play in Greece for a couple years

freedevil
04-24-2008, 09:03 AM
If you go to the front page of Draftexpress.com right now, you'll see a sad reminder of what happens when kids bolt a little early - there's a blog article featuring the "Spectacular De Colo," a 6'5 frenchman.

Guess who just happens to be in the picture accompanying this article guarding the featured De Colo? William Avery. Sigh.

freedevil
04-24-2008, 11:49 AM
http://www.draftexpress.com/gallery/NandoDe%20Colo/1202319472.jpg

dukeENG2003
04-24-2008, 12:17 PM
wow, Will got, um. . . thick.

MIKESJ73
04-24-2008, 12:47 PM
As of today, there are 50 underclassmen who have officially declared. With around 10 international players and at least 10 seniors getting drafted, there are going to be alot of heart broken kids this year. It just dilutes the NBA and College ball in my opinion. The young players have the athleticism and talent to play in the league, but not the fundementals. I don't think it is a coincidence that the fall of US basketball coincides with the influx of all the Garnett, Kobe, James, and Anthonys' and all the other stars that were never taught the fundamentals of the game by a quality college coach. It's true they are successful using their talent and athleticism for the most part, but isn't it funny how the far less athletic teams seem to defeat our superstars. I hope Coach K can get it done this year, but let's be real, he has a pretty big job ahead of him. I wouldn't call him a failure if they don't come home with the gold.

sagegrouse
04-24-2008, 12:53 PM
wow, Will got, um. . . thick.

Oo-la-la! La cuisine francaise est tres bonne!

sagegrouse

Shammrog
04-24-2008, 12:56 PM
wow, Will got, um. . . thick.

God. He looks like he swallowed Jon Scheyer.

Jaymf7
04-24-2008, 01:20 PM
As of today, there are 50 underclassmen who have officially declared. With around 10 international players and at least 10 seniors getting drafted, there are going to be alot of heart broken kids this year. It just dilutes the NBA and College ball in my opinion. The young players have the athleticism and talent to play in the league, but not the fundementals. I don't think it is a coincidence that the fall of US basketball coincides with the influx of all the Garnett, Kobe, James, and Anthonys' and all the other stars that were never taught the fundamentals of the game by a quality college coach. It's true they are successful using their talent and athleticism for the most part, but isn't it funny how the far less athletic teams seem to defeat our superstars. I hope Coach K can get it done this year, but let's be real, he has a pretty big job ahead of him. I wouldn't call him a failure if they don't come home with the gold.

I agree that there are way too many underclassman declaring to get drafted, but that is why many do not hire agents. For those that do and don't get drafted, perhaps it is for the best -- they likely have no genuine interest in a college education at this point in their lives and can play professionally abroad (IMO, in this day and age I refuse to accept that many college players are duped by false promises of lottery status, too many people have gone undrafted for someone who is not lottery bound to be justifiably confused as to whether they are a lock as a high first round pick).

I think you are way off by citing Garnett, Kobe, James, and Anthony as lacking fundamentals and being the "reason" for the fall of USA basketball. These guys are the reason for early entry. Except for perhaps Anthony, who in fact played college ball for a great coach, all of these players are incredibly well-rounded and skilled. I am all for a rule that prevents college players from leaving until after their 2nd year, but guys like this convincingly support allowing players who never go to college to go directly to the league. They are amazing (and generally perform at a high level from day one).

With respect to USA basketball, the problem is not with the skills of the players we send. We can send almost anyone and I refuse to believe that we choose players of insufficient skill or fundamentals. The problem with USA basketball is that other countries have imporved their fundamentals to our level. With that improvement, they have been able to capitalize on their true advantage -- their dedication to putting a national team together that will practice and play games every year (often with players who have no NBA or similar commitments). They develop teams, not just collections of players. Hopefully, K's move to a USA "program" will take away this historic advantage.

Jumbo
04-24-2008, 02:16 PM
I don't think it is a coincidence that the fall of US basketball coincides with the influx of all the Garnett, Kobe, James, and Anthonys' and all the other stars that were never taught the fundamentals of the game by a quality college coach.

You're right, Kobe isn't fundamentally solid at all. Uh-huh. Why can't these players learn fundamentals by a quality pro coach?
The "fall of US basketball" was inevitable, because at some point, the rest of the world was going to catch up. And, btw, those "fundamental" international players aren't going the college route. They are professionals at an early age. You could actually make a stronger argument that for the US to truly dominate in hoops, the top players should be pulled out of high schools, sent to basketball academies, stop wasting their time with books and just work on said "fundamentals" all the time.

CDu
04-24-2008, 02:36 PM
You're right, Kobe isn't fundamentally solid at all. Uh-huh. Why can't these players learn fundamentals by a quality pro coach?
The "fall of US basketball" was inevitable, because at some point, the rest of the world was going to catch up. And, btw, those "fundamental" international players aren't going the college route. They are professionals at an early age. You could actually make a stronger argument that for the US to truly dominate in hoops, the top players should be pulled out of high schools, sent to basketball academies, stop wasting their time with books and just work on said "fundamentals" all the time.

I agree and disagree. With regard to fundamentals, I agree that it isn't the high-school-to-pros atmosphere that is the problem. But I believe that lack of fundamentals is ABSOLUTELY a problem for players in the US. Sure: Kobe is very fundamentally sound, as is Garnett. But they are EXCEPTIONAL. And they are two of the five best players on the planet. They are not the reason that the US players are falling behind.

Part of the problem is, as you say, a function of the game getting global exposure and the rest of the world now having a generation (or two) of kids who grew up playing basketball while trained by good coaches. The game is now a part of their culture, so they are bound to be more competitive at it.

Another part of the problem is the environment in which the players are developed. In Europe/South America, elite players are brought up through national teams and/or professional teams, and are taught team basketball by qualified coaches. In the US, players are largely brought up through the AAU system, which is littered with coaches who have debatable coaching acumen, and tends to promote one-on-one play rather than team concept (with the goal being for the player to get exposure). Fundamentals can be learned on the job, but by the time they reach the NBA US players are frequently WAY behind in fundamentals. It makes more sense to address the problem sooner rather than waiting until a player is getting paid to play in the NBA.

I do think that academies may be the solution to the problem of lack of fundamentals. By identifying talent at the 12-13 year old level and filtering it into basketball versions of magnet schools (with real coaches), you could ensure that players get better training and learn good fundamentals, while also getting exposure for the "next level." The difficulty with that is that you can't have a system that filters kids out of academics and into a funnel system that is inherently likely to lead to a dead end for most of the players. There has to be a consideration of academics and life skills for these players, because many will not make the League and will need to have something to fall back on.

Jaymf7
04-25-2008, 03:49 PM
I agree and disagree. With regard to fundamentals, I agree that it isn't the high-school-to-pros atmosphere that is the problem. But I believe that lack of fundamentals is ABSOLUTELY a problem for players in the US. Sure: Kobe is very fundamentally sound, as is Garnett. But they are EXCEPTIONAL. And they are two of the five best players on the planet. They are not the reason that the US players are falling behind.


While your comments may be true for basketball in the US as a whole, if the question is why has Team USA had difficulty lately, I just don't see how it has anything to do with fundamentals. Other countries send their best guys and with our depth we can easily send a group of 12 guys with fundamentals that are equal or better (although sometimes we choose to select players with physical abilities that may be preferable to great free throw shooting or whatnot). The issue remains the concept of a "national team."

If your emphasis on fundamentals (or skills or bball IQ in general) was the real issue, one would expect that collections of good players from the other teams could be thrown together several weeks before the Olympics (as the US did in the past) and they would outperform the US. Ridiculously unlikely. Other teams have closed the talent gap lately and this has allowed them to benefit from the fact that they spend YEARS together developing chemistry and gameplans that cannot be thrown together in a few weeks by an NBA all-star team. IMHO, that is the difference in the performance of our national team -- not anything to do with fundamentals, AAU, limits on high school or college practice hours, the American fascination with the dunk, etc. The good thing is that K is working hard to implement changes to fix this.

BlueintheFace
04-27-2008, 03:30 PM
Thabeet is sticking around one more year. Seems like a good decision for him. The UConnvicts should be pretty good next year.

freedevil
04-27-2008, 03:35 PM
Darren Collison to stay as well.

BD80
04-27-2008, 04:26 PM
Darren Collison to stay as well.

No doubt scared off because of Lawson :rolleyes:

JasonEvans
04-28-2008, 06:12 AM
Darren Collison to stay as well.

He will be awful lonely out there. Now, Josh Shipp has decided (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=405350)to put his name in too. I think this makes 14 players on the UCLA team entering the draft.

In fairness, only 2 of them have a shot at the first round but they are clearly getting good advice to "test the waters" and see where they stand.

--Jason "I am a bit surprised that Collison is not going in, but next year figures to be a weaker draft" Evans

MChambers
05-06-2008, 08:15 PM
Zach Feinstein

http://www.draftfeinstein.com/

On another page, someone pointed out that if Isiah was still in charge of the Knicks, this guy might be drafted.

wilson
05-07-2008, 01:04 PM
Either they have to retire the Scotty Thurman "cost himself in the draft by coming back for another season" award or NBADraft.net is on crack if, as they project, Roy Hibbert would not go until the 25th pick.


I thought that award was named after Auburn's Chris Porter?

Bluedog
05-20-2008, 10:08 PM
Wow! The Bulls got the #1 pick with just a 1.7% chance. Who do you all think they should take? Beasley or Rose? Rose would put Duhon farther down on the chart, but I guess it's a foregone conclusion that Duhon is being traded. Has that been confirmed yet? Or is he a free agent? He didn't seem to play very much at the end of the season and both the Bulls and Duhon seemed unhappy - so I assume it's a matter of time. I think the Bulls should pick up Beasley personally. Hinrich is pretty solid at the PG slot, but the Bulls front line is not all that great. But they might still have faith in Noah and don't want to draft the same position two years in a row....I don't know. They got extremely lucky though. I also recall them being lucky the year they picked Brand - I think they had something like the 5th or 6th worst record that year. Then they stupidly traded Brand for Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner....Go Bulls!

superdave
05-20-2008, 11:22 PM
I believe the Bulls have written off Duhon, who could wind up as a backup pg on a real contender.

The Bulls should take Rose and try to package either Gordon or Hughes for either cap space or a veteran. Their nucleus going forward would be Rose, Hinrich, Deng, Thomas, Nocioni,Noah. They are still one all-star away from contending.

Via free agency or trade they could get Jermaine O'Neal, Elton Brand, or maybe even Carmelo.

How about Deng and Hughes for Carmelo?

dukemsu
05-21-2008, 01:14 AM
Unless the Bulls can move Hinrich and his enormous contract (he signed a 5 year deal last year), they are going with Beasley. They will then move either Deng or Nocioni (you don't need both along with Beasley) and will probably try to sign and trade Gordon as well. Du will not be back either.

The Bulls will look nothing like they did at the end of this year. Rose is a Chicago kid and will be a great NBA player, but Reinsdorf and Paxson will not want to deal with a crowded backcourt involving three guys under 6'1" any longer.

Rose makes the most sense and is the best prospect, but he doesn't fit with the current situation in Chicago.

dukemsu

matrix1686
05-21-2008, 07:58 AM
It has to be Beasley. The Bulls problem the last few years has been that they have no low-post threat. Beasley immediately solves this problem. Then you can trade away either Tyrus Thomas or Drew Gooden or both. A frontcourt of Noah, Beasley, and Deng would be very very good.


I know Rose is a local kid, but Hinrich is still a pretty solid poing guard. Duhon will be gone so that's not an option. If the Bulls take Rose then they still will not have a low-post scorer and they'd have a harder time getting rid of Hinrich than they would Thomas or Gooden. That really solves nothing. So if they are smart they will take Beasley.

superdave
05-21-2008, 08:52 AM
Beasley will turn out to be a dog. Check out his second half in the ncaa tourney loss. He had about 15 points in the first half and 4 in the second half because he refused to play hard, refused to take shots and just floated around the key and passed the ball.

If they can trade for a big time scoring forward, then why wouldnt they take an all-star pg? I'd go Rose or deal the pick.

roywhite
05-21-2008, 09:28 AM
Beasley will turn out to be a dog. Check out his second half in the ncaa tourney loss. He had about 15 points in the first half and 4 in the second half because he refused to play hard, refused to take shots and just floated around the key and passed the ball.

If they can trade for a big time scoring forward, then why wouldnt they take an all-star pg? I'd go Rose or deal the pick.

Heard a Fox Sports News NBA guy on the radio this morning who said similar things about Beasley---very talented, occasionally gets into problems with coaches and teammates, not very mature. Compared him to Derrick Coleman, which is not really a compliment.

Seems to me Rose would be a better choice for the Bulls.

CDu
05-21-2008, 10:14 AM
Wow! The Bulls got the #1 pick with just a 1.7% chance. Who do you all think they should take? Beasley or Rose? Rose would put Duhon farther down on the chart, but I guess it's a foregone conclusion that Duhon is being traded. Has that been confirmed yet? Or is he a free agent? He didn't seem to play very much at the end of the season and both the Bulls and Duhon seemed unhappy - so I assume it's a matter of time. I think the Bulls should pick up Beasley personally. Hinrich is pretty solid at the PG slot, but the Bulls front line is not all that great. But they might still have faith in Noah and don't want to draft the same position two years in a row....I don't know. They got extremely lucky though. I also recall them being lucky the year they picked Brand - I think they had something like the 5th or 6th worst record that year. Then they stupidly traded Brand for Tyson Chandler and Brian Skinner....Go Bulls!

Duhon's time with the Bulls is probably over either way. I think Rose is the best fit. Beasley appears to fit the team's needs better, but there are questions about his character and whether or not he fits in on the team (the Derrick Coleman comparisons aren't a good start). Rose is less of a headache and problem child than Beasley, and he's a big upgrade at PG from Hinrich/Duhon.

Either way, the Bulls will have to be active in the trade market. If they draft Beasley, then Gooden and probably one of Thomas and Noah are expendable. If they draft Rose, then Hinrich and Duhon are expendable. And in either case they need to figure out what to do with their SG/SF situation, because they have too many guys there.

unexpected
05-21-2008, 11:23 AM
I feel as if there's a bigger logjam at PF/SF than the PG/SG -

At PF/SF: they have: Deng, Thomas, Gooden, Noah, Nocioni

At SG/PG: they have heinrich, gordon, hughes, duhon.

Drafting Beasley either says: a) okay, now we don't have to resign deng, our most proven commodity at this point, or b) now we punt on our #2 draft pick last year, tyrus thomas.

If they're going to trade, duhon, and given hughes, terrible injury history, and gordon is well...gordon, i think it makes sense to go after Rose. Start him alongside Heinrich, have Heinrich play SG, and then have Gordon back to his 6th man slot.

What they really needed this year was a 6-6" SG, or a Oden-type center.

ugadevil
05-21-2008, 11:38 AM
What they really needed this year was a 6-6" SG, or a Oden-type center.

Any talk of a trade down and possibly getting Brook Lopez?

CDu
05-21-2008, 11:48 AM
I feel as if there's a bigger logjam at PF/SF than the PG/SG -

At PF/SF: they have: Deng, Thomas, Gooden, Noah, Nocioni

At SG/PG: they have heinrich, gordon, hughes, duhon.

You're forgetting Sefalosha - a SG/SF for whom the Bulls have high hopes. He crowds the backcourt picture even further.

Also, Noah plays mostly center, so I wouldn't really include him in the SF/PF rotation. He, Gooden, and Gray split the minutes there. Gooden, Thomas, and Nocioni split the PF minutes. Deng and Nocioni split SF minutes with Sefalosha and Hughes (when the team goes with 3 guards).

Based on this, I'd say the logjam is slightly more of an issue at the guard/wing spots, because they have three guys warranting 30+ minutes, a fourth guy who they drafted in the lottery and is pushing for minutes, and a fifth guy who is a solid backup at PG.

In reality, the logjam is pretty severe at both the guard/wing and the forward spots, so we're really just arguing on the margins here.


Drafting Beasley either says: a) okay, now we don't have to resign deng, our most proven commodity at this point, or b) now we punt on our #2 draft pick last year, tyrus thomas.

If they're going to trade, duhon, and given hughes, terrible injury history, and gordon is well...gordon, i think it makes sense to go after Rose. Start him alongside Heinrich, have Heinrich play SG, and then have Gordon back to his 6th man slot.

What they really needed this year was a 6-6" SG, or a Oden-type center.

I don't think Deng and Beasley are mutually exclusive. Beasley would play in the post and Deng would play as the SF in more of a wing role. The two actually complement each other nicely. It WOULD probably put the writing on the wall for Thomas as the future, though. He'd be the backup for sure. It'd require trading Gooden and Nocioni/Thomas. And of course you have the character issues with Beasley, and Paxson is definitely a character guy.

Drafting Rose would require trading either Hinrich (not Heinrich - sorry, that's a pet peeve of mine), Hughes, or Gordon, and it means letting go of Duhon (which is probably a foregone conclusion). And it means continuing the approach of not having a consistent post presence offensively.

Neither is a slam dunk, though. The Bulls blew it in my opinion when they went for Thomas/Sefalosha instead of Brandon Roy. Two years later, we still have no idea if Thomas or Sefalosha will amount to anything, and Roy has been one of the best in his class at SG and would fit the needs exactly. But, can't cry over spilled milk, so we have what we have.

Scoring Point
05-21-2008, 12:03 PM
Excellent post, CDu.

As a Bulls fan, I also question the drafting of Gordon when they already had Hinrich. Both are tweeners, and they have never really meshed playing together, at least as a starting unit. FWIW, I think that's one reason why Duhon has managed to stick around this long and always seem to be able to sneak back into the rotation - he is the only true PG on the Bulls roster.

That would obviously change with the drafting of Rose, which to me would necessitate the trading of at least one and pehaps two from among Hinrich, Gordon and Hughes, even more so than Duhon. I could actually see Chris sticking a straight backup to Rose, though clearly the odds favor him playing elsewhere next year. FWIW, I could also see Hinrich and Rose playing together; I've always thought the former is better at the 2, and both are solid defenders (though Hinrich regressed a bit in that regard, and most others, this year), with Rose big and athletic enough to stick with elite SGs if necessary.

CDu
05-21-2008, 12:23 PM
Excellent post, CDu.

As a Bulls fan, I also question the drafting of Gordon when they already had Hinrich. Both are tweeners, and they have never really meshed playing together, at least as a starting unit. FWIW, I think that's one reason why Duhon has managed to stick around this long and always seem to be able to sneak back into the rotation - he is the only true PG on the Bulls roster.

That would obviously change with the drafting of Rose, which to me would necessitate the trading of at least one and pehaps two from among Hinrich, Gordon and Hughes, even more so than Duhon. I could actually see Chris sticking a straight backup to Rose, though clearly the odds favor him playing elsewhere next year. FWIW, I could also see Hinrich and Rose playing together; I've always thought the former is better at the 2, and both are solid defenders (though Hinrich regressed a bit in that regard, and most others, this year), with Rose big and athletic enough to stick with elite SGs if necessary.

I'll agree with questioning the Gordon pick. Gordon is an explosive scorer, but he's the shortest 6'3" guy I've ever seen and he is incredibly streaky. When he's hot, he'll score in bunches. When he's not, he kills the offense or just disappears.

I'd be okay with drafting Rose and completely overhauling the backcourt. Go with Sefalosha and Duhon and trade Hinrich, Hughes, and Gordon. With the frontcourt we have now, we need guys who can attack the basket and create easy scoring chances for himself and for the big men. Hinrich doesn't seem to be able to do it consistently, and Gordon seems to refuse to do it (and can't create for others). Rose certainly has that ability and Duhon is a very solid backup. We'd need to find a good perimeter shooter who can defend a bit as well, though to complement Rose on the wing, because Sefalosha is good defensively and is very athletic but can't shoot.

That said, the reality of the NBA is that it will be very hard to trade those three guys. As such, at least one of Hinrich and Gordon will be back, and Duhon will likely be gone. If Hinrich could shoot a little better, I'd be all for keeping him in the three guard rotation. And if Gordon could defend or create for others I'd be all for keeping him. But both have pretty big flaws that make them questionable alongside Rose.

I'm very interested to see who Paxson brings in to coach, and to see whether or not the Bulls get away from the current philosophy of dribbling "east/west" and taking jumpshoots.

ugadevil
05-21-2008, 12:41 PM
The mock draft linked on the front page is pretty interesting. If it's accurate, I'd like a nice glass of Bye-Ty!

CDu
05-21-2008, 12:57 PM
The mock draft linked on the front page is pretty interesting. If it's accurate, I'd like a nice glass of Bye-Ty!

I try not to read too much into these things. Mock drafts tend to be worthless after about the first 5 picks or so.

ugadevil
05-21-2008, 01:02 PM
I try not to read too much into these things. Mock drafts tend to be worthless after about the first 5 picks or so.

I say the same thing about internet message board threads :D

CDu
05-21-2008, 01:17 PM
I say the same thing about internet message board threads :D

Touche!

hc5duke
05-21-2008, 02:15 PM
The mock draft linked on the front page is pretty interesting. If it's accurate, I'd like a nice glass of Bye-Ty!


Chad Ford's column: "But after the Adam Morrison debacle, will they really draft another college guy noted for his lack of athleticism?"

Really? Adam Morrison is one thing, but Love lacks athleticism?? He couldn't just come out and say what he wanted?


Chad Ford's thought: "But after the Adam Morrison debacle, will they really draft another college guy noted for his whiteness?"

SilkyJ
05-21-2008, 02:18 PM
^what would be the point of that?

on a related note, Love is underrated athletically, in my opinion. i also think that him losing some of that weight will help, which it appears he has already done. I read somewhere he lost 13 lbs already...right here actually:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftWatch-080516&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fdraft2008%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumni st%3dford_chad%26page%3dDraftWatch-080516

CDu
05-21-2008, 02:19 PM
Really? Adam Morrison is one thing, but Love lacks athleticism?? He couldn't just come out and say what he wanted?

Actually, Love IS pretty unathletic, when agility, speed, and leaping ability are the definition. That's the knock on Love as a player - he's plodding and he plays below the rim despite his size. It's one of the only reasons he's not a top-3 pick. So I don't see anything wrong with what Ford said. Love is a prospect because of his savvy, his toughness, his technique, and his passing ability - not his "athleticism."

Classof06
05-21-2008, 03:01 PM
Excellent post, CDu.

As a Bulls fan, I also question the drafting of Gordon when they already had Hinrich. Both are tweeners, and they have never really meshed playing together, at least as a starting unit. FWIW, I think that's one reason why Duhon has managed to stick around this long and always seem to be able to sneak back into the rotation - he is the only true PG on the Bulls roster.

That would obviously change with the drafting of Rose, which to me would necessitate the trading of at least one and pehaps two from among Hinrich, Gordon and Hughes, even more so than Duhon. I could actually see Chris sticking a straight backup to Rose, though clearly the odds favor him playing elsewhere next year. FWIW, I could also see Hinrich and Rose playing together; I've always thought the former is better at the 2, and both are solid defenders (though Hinrich regressed a bit in that regard, and most others, this year), with Rose big and athletic enough to stick with elite SGs if necessary.

If I'm a GM, I think it's pretty hard to get a read on Gordon based off of one year in college. He's obviously talented but his play was inconsistent at times and when you combine that with the Kelvin Sampson debacle, it's hard to know how much of those inconsistencies are related to the Sampson situation.

To be sure, Gordon's production dropped quite noticeably when Big 10 play started and then it dropped again when the Sampson situation began to unravel. His outside shot was erratic, he never proved to be anything more than an average defender and he's an average passer at best. I remember watching multiple Indiana games in Big 10 play and walking away unimpressed with Gordon. I'm not going to sit here and say he'll be a bust but I do think he's much more of an unknown that people seem to realize. It's hard to know whether his problems were on the court or off.

Looking at his scouting report on NBADraft.net just confirmed everything I've said. This kid is tough to evaluate.

Scoring Point
05-21-2008, 03:15 PM
If I'm a GM, I think it's pretty hard to get a read on Gordon based off of one year in college. He's obviously talented but his play was inconsistent at times and when you combine that with the Kelvin Sampson debacle, it's hard to know how much of those inconsistencies are related to the Sampson situation.

To be sure, Gordon's production dropped quite noticeably when Big 10 play started and then it dropped again when the Sampson situation began to unravel. His outside shot was erratic, he never proved to be anything more than an average defender and he's an average passer at best. I remember watching multiple Indiana games in Big 10 play and walking away unimpressed with Gordon. I'm not going to sit here and say he'll be a bust but I do think he's much more of an unknown that people seem to realize. It's hard to know whether his problems were on the court or off.

Looking at his scouting report on NBADraft.net just confirmed everything I've said. This kid is tough to evaluate.

I was actually referencing Ben Gordon in my post above, but I agree with your take on Eric. They are actually fairly similar players - undersized SGs and very streaky scorers who dominate the ball but don't create much for others, and don't defend very well, either. Eric Gordon may be a little bigger (perhaps a legit 6-3) but also a step slower.

CDu
05-21-2008, 03:57 PM
If I'm a GM, I think it's pretty hard to get a read on Gordon based off of one year in college. He's obviously talented but his play was inconsistent at times and when you combine that with the Kelvin Sampson debacle, it's hard to know how much of those inconsistencies are related to the Sampson situation.

To be sure, Gordon's production dropped quite noticeably when Big 10 play started and then it dropped again when the Sampson situation began to unravel. His outside shot was erratic, he never proved to be anything more than an average defender and he's an average passer at best. I remember watching multiple Indiana games in Big 10 play and walking away unimpressed with Gordon. I'm not going to sit here and say he'll be a bust but I do think he's much more of an unknown that people seem to realize. It's hard to know whether his problems were on the court or off.

Looking at his scouting report on NBADraft.net just confirmed everything I've said. This kid is tough to evaluate.

We were talking about BEN Gordon, not ERIC Gordon. I can see the confusion, as both players are gunners with inconsisent shooting, no passing, and poor defense. But we were referring to the Bulls drafting Ben Gordon in 2004.

CDu
05-21-2008, 03:58 PM
I was actually referencing Ben Gordon in my post above, but I agree with your take on Eric. They are actually fairly similar players - undersized SGs and very streaky scorers who dominate the ball but don't create much for others, and don't defend very well, either. Eric Gordon may be a little bigger (perhaps a legit 6-3) but also a step slower.

Doh! Should have read further. I basically said exactly the same thing. I agree that Eric Gordon is bigger and not as quick.

bhd28
05-21-2008, 08:47 PM
I say go with Rose and do whatever you can (outside of trading Deng and either Thomas or Noah) to get J. O'Neal.... say like using Drew Gooden, Ben Gordon, and one of Nocioni or Hughes or Thomas or Noah. I like the fact that Rose played bigger on the biggest stage, while (outside of the Kansas game) Beasley didn't. Try hard to make that trade now... if they can do it before the draft, they could feel a lot better about taking Rose.

Basically, though, I take Rose because PFs who can score but don't defend are nice, but more accessable... I mean Garnett, R. Wallace, and Gasol all have their teams in the conference finals, but all were drafted by other teams and gotten via trade. How many great PGs leave in their prime via trade? (And, no, I don't think Kidd is in his prime now.... and Nash left via FA... a mistake by Dallas IMHO).

superdave
05-21-2008, 09:27 PM
The Bulls seem like they are set up for a big time trade this summer somehow someway.

My guess is they go after a scorer like Carmelo, as opposed to someone who would be easier to get like Jermaine O'Neal. Also, a sign and trade for Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison or another veteran would allow them to deal Larry Hughes' salary, Hinrich's salary and package it with Ben Gordon or Deng, allowing the Bulls to clear bad contracts and open up PT for whoever they choose, be it Rose or Beasley.

No way they deal the pick though, unless it's a BIG get, like Carmelo.

dukemsu
05-21-2008, 09:45 PM
That said, the reality of the NBA is that it will be very hard to trade those three guys. As such, at least one of Hinrich and Gordon will be back, and Duhon will likely be gone. If Hinrich could shoot a little better, I'd be all for keeping him in the three guard rotation. And if Gordon could defend or create for others I'd be all for keeping him. But both have pretty big flaws that make them questionable alongside Rose.

I agree. Hinrich will be nearly impossible to trade due to his enormous contract. He is a decent player who can do a little bit of everything, but he's not a good enough penetrator to be a top shelf PG, and he doesn't shoot consistently enough to be a strong 2G. No team in the league will pick up that contract.

Well, maybe the Knicks would if they weren't so saddled with baggage and Isiah were still running the show.

dukemsu

dukemsu
05-21-2008, 09:53 PM
Really? Adam Morrison is one thing, but Love lacks athleticism?? He couldn't just come out and say what he wanted?

All kidding aside, it's not like Jordan doesn't have a horrible draft record. Well, actually, he does. Kwame. May. Morrison.

Okafor and Felton are solid players, but I believe Emeka was pre-Mike.

The guy is a couple of bad signings away from being Isiah.

dukemsu

bhd28
05-21-2008, 10:16 PM
I agree. Hinrich will be nearly impossible to trade due to his enormous contract. He is a decent player who can do a little bit of everything, but he's not a good enough penetrator to be a top shelf PG, and he doesn't shoot consistently enough to be a strong 2G. No team in the league will pick up that contract.

Well, maybe the Knicks would if they weren't so saddled with baggage and Isiah were still running the show.

dukemsu
I agree with you, but I think if the Bulls got Rose and could get J. O'Neal, then Hinrich's shooting would improve dramatically. Instead of trying to create shots (including his own), he would have a lot more open looks.

yancem
05-22-2008, 08:29 AM
All kidding aside, it's not like Jordan doesn't have a horrible draft record. Well, actually, he does. Kwame. May. Morrison.

Okafor and Felton are solid players, but I believe Emeka was pre-Mike.

The guy is a couple of bad signings away from being Isiah.

dukemsu

May was drafted the same year as Felton and I believe that Morrison was before Jordan as well. I think that last year was the first year that Jordan was involved in the Bobcats' draft. He drafted Wright and traded him to Golden State for Jason Richardson. Probably to early to determine if that was a good move or not.

ugadevil
05-22-2008, 08:34 AM
May was drafted the same year as Felton and I believe that Morrison was before Jordan as well. I think that last year was the first year that Jordan was involved in the Bobcats' draft. He drafted Wright and traded him to Golden State for Jason Richardson. Probably to early to determine if that was a good move or not.

I'd say that move wasn't too bad. Jason Richardson had a good year with the Bobcats. Did Brandan Wright play at all this season? It would probably help if he weighed more than 65 lbs. The Bobcats have some decent players in Okafor, Richardson, Wallace, and Felton. If they could add one more, they might end up in the playoffs.

yancem
05-22-2008, 09:04 AM
I'd say that move wasn't too bad. Jason Richardson had a good year with the Bobcats. Did Brandan Wright play at all this season? It would probably help if he weighed more than 65 lbs. The Bobcats have some decent players in Okafor, Richardson, Wallace, and Felton. If they could add one more, they might end up in the playoffs.

Yeah, based on last year the trade was great, I just wonder if long term if it will end up being a good or bad trade. It will depend on how Wright develops and how long Richardson plays at a high level.

ugadevil
05-22-2008, 09:17 AM
Any projections yet on if Demarcus will be drafted?

CDu
05-22-2008, 09:31 AM
May was drafted the same year as Felton and I believe that Morrison was before Jordan as well. I think that last year was the first year that Jordan was involved in the Bobcats' draft. He drafted Wright and traded him to Golden State for Jason Richardson. Probably to early to determine if that was a good move or not.

Jordan was involved in the Morrison pick. He joined the organization in Mid-June 2006, and the 2006 draft was his first big step as a member of the Bobcats organization. He was not involved in the picks of May or Felton.

Another thing to note is that Jordan is on the hook for the hire of Sam Vincent to coach the team, replacing Bernie Bickerstaff. This team was on the verge of being playoff ready (especially with the acquisition of Richardson). It was a questionable decision, and it turns out to have potentially been a mistake as the team took a step backwards this year.

CDu
05-22-2008, 09:37 AM
Any projections yet on if Demarcus will be drafted?

Chad Ford doesn't have Nelson listed in his top-100 prospects. Now, there's always wiggle room in the second round. But the fact that Nelson doesn't crack the top-100 is reason to believe he's unlikely to be drafted. Jumping above at least 40 players is a LOT to expect.

moonpie23
05-22-2008, 03:09 PM
Nelson's degree from duke puts him WAY ahead of most of those other guys.. :)

SilkyJ
05-22-2008, 06:16 PM
Demarcus typically performs well in tryouts/workouts (he was a lock for the USA U-21 team before he hurt his wrist) so I think his stock will rise if he attends the predraft camp (no idea if he's been invited) and other workouts before the draft. Don't know if he'll get drafted, but I expect to hear good things about him when the workouts start happening.

dukelion
05-29-2008, 12:07 AM
Anyone actually remember Rondo in college?

If not here's a reminder http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/37763

My point is that Rondo was anything but fanatsic at the college level. Many people ripped him for declaring (Greg Doyell absoultely ridiculed him) and for good reason.

He left an underachieving Kentucky team as an underachieving sophmore with questionable college stats let alone nba caliber.

57% on free thorws.....27% on 3pters......hardly the making of a first round pick yet there he went at number 21.

Why?

Scouts fell in love with his athleticism. He had a good handle, was lightning quick and had a good ast/TO ratio.

Sound like someone we know?

Main difference might be that Rondo has better length and is a lock down defender but Lawson is a much better shooter (especially fron the line) and also a step quicker.

Bottom line is that Lawson is a lock for the first round and won't be coming back to UNC.

Green re-injured his ankle and I've read rumours that he'll pull out soon and go back to school.

The wildcard IMO is Ellington. He's a second rounder right now and he had a bad first day of camp....especially defensively.

Not sure he'll get a first round promise but he's so close to going in the first at some point he might just decide to wing it.....we'll see.

UNC without Lawson and Ellington is a very flawed team. Still top 25 caliber but William Graves getting minutes at the 2 spot is serious trouble. Add to that the fact that their up tempo style is gone (with Lawson gone) as is their best 3pt shooter (Ellington) on a team that was very average at shooting the three to begin with......they could be in for a long year.

Channing
05-29-2008, 01:10 AM
The wildcard IMO is Ellington. He's a second rounder right now and he had a bad first day of camp....especially defensively.




Do you have a source for this? I saw this on nbadraft.net:

"None of the three (referencing Lawson, Ellington and Davon Jefferson) did anything to hurt or help their stock in day one. Ellington had one break away in which he fell short of dunking the ball, but converted a lay in. His shot looked as smooth as ever and as always, he appeared to be enjoying himself out there."

dukelion
05-29-2008, 09:32 AM
Do you have a source for this? I saw this on nbadraft.net:

"None of the three (referencing Lawson, Ellington and Davon Jefferson) did anything to hurt or help their stock in day one. Ellington had one break away in which he fell short of dunking the ball, but converted a lay in. His shot looked as smooth as ever and as always, he appeared to be enjoying himself out there."

Check out Draftexpress.com

Basically says Wayne is going back to school.