We need another assistant coach

[lavell12]

While coach K and the assitants are excellent coaches they are all guards we need an assistant who was a big man in college to work with McRoberts and Zoebeck. Christian or Mike G ?

[fuse]

I'll take this in a slightly different direction. I have nothing against Wojo or Chris Collins, but I think the coaching 'failures' (probably too strong a term) we are suffering from are a result of Coach K surrounding himself with exclusively former players.

I can't really argue the perspective of the Duke family and the benefits of former players who have been battle tested with Coach K as solid assistants.

I'd really like to see Wojo and Chris get head coaching jobs elsewhere and while certainly Laettner or Jason Williams (or any number of other former Duke players) would make excellent candidates for assistant coaching positions, I think that Coach K needs to be pushed a bit by an outside perspective.

I don't know enough about Division I coaches to know who has the bright and upcoming assistants, but perhaps looking at assistants of coaches like Boeheim (sp?), Howland, Matta, Donovan, Izzo (among others, Self left out deliberately because I seriously think he is insane) might provide the program with an interesting new perspective. Of course I am sure assistant coach poaching is likely taboo among the fraternity of coaches, so maybe this is just wishful thinking.

In any event, I really like our coaching staff but I am not sure that any of them challenge Coach K in ways that would be beneficial to the Duke program.

I hope this message is taken in the spirit in which it was intended as one positive way to look forward, I am in no way trying to demean the current coaching staff or program.

[BluBones]

While coach K and the assitants are excellent coaches they are all guards we need an assistant who was a big man in college to work with McRoberts and Zoebeck. Christian or Mike G ?


Why? Brand, Boozer and Williams developed well at Duke and are doing well in the NBA. All were coached at Duke by former guards.

In the past ten years, name another college program which has produced more quality NBA big men. I love our assistants.

[ikiru36]

I love our assistants too and I do not inherently share the big man concern about Wojo as many of our big men have shown progress and development. I have had the same wonders as fuse however and would be interested to know if having all assistants being former players is more the exception or the rule for top coaches (who've been coaching more than, say, 12 years). If anyone knows this sort of thing regarding the staffs at UCLA under Wooden or for, say, Dean Smith, Bob Knight, Rick Pitino, Jim Calhoun, Lute Olsen, Roy Williams, I'd be interested to know.

And whether it is common or not (and I can off the top of my head think of numerous former player-assistant coaches at these programs-just not sure if they generally comprised the entire top staff) doesn't inherently make one way the correct way. But having one's entire staff be comprised of former players at least creates the theoretical possibility of less "outside the box" thinking/questioning re: core beliefs of the head coach.

Similarly (and a separate issue from whether Wojo is a good big man coach), if a coach himself played guard, does having an entire staff of guards (no staff who would've ever even played the 3) limit the perspective on the game in any way?

BTW, I think that the Duke program is doing very well and I believe that we are likely to be at least very good next year while maintaining the very staff we have. There are numerous other valid and understandable reasons, to my thinking anyways, for our relatively "down" year this year, inexperience and youth being paramount.

Just wondering about a historical perspective re:assistant coaching staff make-up, and people who know better than myself's thoughts re: this line of inquiry.

Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cameron]

I agree with, BluBones. We have two great assistants in Chris and Steve and I dread the day that they leave. The passion they display for the Duke program is unbelievable and they have done a fine job over the years. I didn't see anyone complaining earlier this decade when we were destroying teams. If anyone is to blame for this season's failure it isn't one of those two. It's Josh McRoberts. He just isn't a great college basketball player. It wouldn't matter who would have coached him the past year, he just doesn't seem to have it. He's soft. We needed him to average 18, 19 points a game for us to have a shot at winning 25 games, a win over Carolina, and another trip to the Sweet 16. He didn't. And we didn't.

Some players just don't pan out to be as great as they were in high school once they hit the big leagues, and Josh seems to be one of them. While he's great at some things--passing, shot blocking--he just doesn't have the entire package, the drive within that sends the great ones over the top. I am just not sure he'll ever have it. Besides, he's probably gone (even though he's clearly not ready.)

[jimsumner]

Three flaws here.

Flaw 1. Gotta be an elite big man to coach big men. Pete Newell's not that big, wasn't a great player and he knows more about coaching big men than anyone. How many dominant big men have coached at Duke? Somehow the school manages.

Flaw 2. Having been a good big man, means one can be teach that. Maybe, maybe not. How many great college basketball head coaches were great players? Some; John Wooden comes to mind. But most weren't.

Flaw 3. Hope I'm not being too blunt here but the idea that a Mike Gminski or a Danny Ferry is going to give up their current jobs for an college assistant coaching position is just preposterous. Christian Laettner has a job and it pays pretty well.

[siestadogz]

I like that our assistant coaches are former players. At a time when many payers leave early for the NBA, they help teach the Duke system to the newer players.
I do think that we could us a shooting coach. FSU has one and their free throw shooting increased dramatically.
I believe we had one in the late 1980's named Englund and we were a great free throw shooting team. McClure, McRoberts, and Nelson have release problems.

[wiscodevil]

i know people "in the know" say he is gone, but does anyone know if he has ever attended newell's camp?

i happen to like hiss potential a lot, but if anyone ever needed some low post moves, it's him. he'd be a monster with a 20th of mchales moves and touch.

[Virginian]

I think we have a terrific staff, but surely two or three of them will soon be headed to their much-deserved head coaching jobs. It will be very interesting to see who comes in to replace them. I, for one, would love to see Laettner on the bench. I don't for a minute imagine that will happen, but it would be fascinating to see him join the Duke coaching staff. I think I'll start a letter-writing campaign to that effect!

[buddy]

Coach K is big on management styles. In each organization there must be someone (individual or group) who have can tell the boss when he is wrong, and do so in a way the boss can respect. This is doubly difficult when the boss is an icon. The problem with the assistants that I see is that for their entire adult life, K has been "Coach". There is no peer relationship, and never has been. Gaudet filled that role, until K realized that K was the old guy, and so Gaudet was not needed. Colonel Tom probably played that role as well. It can be incredibly lonely at the top, and when every discussion is in an echo chamber no learning occurs. I think K needs to have someone around him (like Steve Robinson at Carolina maybe) who can say "Boss, it ain't working and here's why." I don't see that with our staff right now. It must be terribly intimidating to tell someone like K (775 victories, 3 National Championships, etc., etc.) that he may not be correct. And it is difficult when you are the boss to agree. Maybe a Mike Jarvis (senior not junior) would be a good type to have around (just an example--let's not get into the problems that surrounded his program). Just a thought here.

[Exiled_Devil]

I'll take this in a slightly different direction. I have nothing against Wojo or Chris Collins, but I think the coaching 'failures' (probably too strong a term) we are suffering from are a result of Coach K surrounding himself with exclusively former players.

I can't really argue the perspective of the Duke family and the benefits of former players who have been battle tested with Coach K as solid assistants.

I'd really like to see Wojo and Chris get head coaching jobs elsewhere and while certainly Laettner or Jason Williams (or any number of other former Duke players) would make excellent candidates for assistant coaching positions, I think that Coach K needs to be pushed a bit by an outside perspective.

I don't know enough about Division I coaches to know who has the bright and upcoming assistants, but perhaps looking at assistants of coaches like Boeheim (sp?), Howland, Matta, Donovan, Izzo (among others, Self left out deliberately because I seriously think he is insane) might provide the program with an interesting new perspective. Of course I am sure assistant coach poaching is likely taboo among the fraternity of coaches, so maybe this is just wishful thinking.

In any event, I really like our coaching staff but I am not sure that any of them challenge Coach K in ways that would be beneficial to the Duke program.

I hope this message is taken in the spirit in which it was intended as one positive way to look forward, I am in no way trying to demean the current coaching staff or program.

I have been thinking about our assistant coaches today. I think that it is probably time for Wojo or Collins to look somewhere for a head coaching job - I actually read a rumor on the interwebs that Colorado was interested in Wojo. I have a feeling, unsubstantiated by any data, that getting some new blood in the assistant ranks would have a positive impact on the team.

I echo the well wishes for our assistants - I have met them both and think they are great people. Part of my thought is an assumption that they want to be head coaches and would be excited to get a head coach job. I also expect that they have been planning and working with K to plan out how and when they are going to put their hats in the ring - one thing that Coach K does amazingly well is help his players think about their development for the long haul, and I know they have coaches clinics of former Duke players/current coaches. For all the cynicism the heels and terps spout, K is really interested in his players well being, not just their box score.

One thought I had in my musings today - I have no idea what other coaching staffs look like. Is a staff of former players unique? Uncommon? Does anyone know what the turnover rate of assistants is across the nation?

Exiled

[BluBones]

Coach K is big on management styles. In each organization there must be someone (individual or group) who have can tell the boss when he is wrong, and do so in a way the boss can respect. This is doubly difficult when the boss is an icon. The problem with the assistants that I see is that for their entire adult life, K has been "Coach". There is no peer relationship, and never has been. Gaudet filled that role, until K realized that K was the old guy, and so Gaudet was not needed. Colonel Tom probably played that role as well. It can be incredibly lonely at the top, and when every discussion is in an echo chamber no learning occurs. I think K needs to have someone around him (like Steve Robinson at Carolina maybe) who can say "Boss, it ain't working and here's why." I don't see that with our staff right now. It must be terribly intimidating to tell someone like K (775 victories, 3 National Championships, etc., etc.) that he may not be correct. And it is difficult when you are the boss to agree. Maybe a Mike Jarvis (senior not junior) would be a good type to have around (just an example--let's not get into the problems that surrounded his program). Just a thought here.

Um, you do realize you're talking about the management team of the most successful program in the last ten years? It seems to me things are working pretty well. This was a down year for us, but we still made the NCAA's. Think UConn would like to have had our season? And do you really think Dawkins doesn't say whatever he wants to K? They've been together 20 years. K is no icon to him. I doubt Wojo or Collins are shy about saying what they think, either. They are confident, articulate professionals who are accustomed to winning. Just because K may be an icon to you doesn't mean the people around him think that way.

[Indoor66]

CHIP ENGELLAND
6'4", 175 lbs.

Guard
Number: 14
Hometown: Pacific Palisades, CA
Birth Date: May 9, 1961
Major: History

Duke - 1980-1983

Recruited by Bill Foster. Was a shooting guard.

[buddy]

Um, you do realize you're talking about the management team of the most successful program in the last ten years? It seems to me things are working pretty well. This was a down year for us, but we still made the NCAA's. Think UConn would like to have had our season? And do you really think Dawkins doesn't say whatever he wants to K? They've been together 20 years. K is no icon to him. I doubt Wojo or Collins are shy about saying what they think, either. They are confident, articulate professionals who are accustomed to winning. Just because K may be an icon to you doesn't mean the people around him think that way.

I am reminded of the statement that mutual funds append to their prospectus, something like "past performance does not indicate future success." In a constantly changing world, doing what you did yesterday does not guarantee success tomorrow.

[Salty Breezes]

Anyone that has watched the development of Boozer and Shelden and still has a question about Wojo's ability to coach big men is just out of it.

Last year, I didn't get to see the team in person until the ACC tourney, and the Shelden I saw there was, by far, the most fundamentally sound defending big man in the ACC since Duncan. He had grown so much since his freshman year; at times, it seemed he was backing up all four of the other Duke defenders at once.

We don't need a new coach for the bigs. The one thing we might need, however, is a new strength and conditioning program. Too much "fatigue" at the end of seasons, too many injuries, and with the exception of Demarcus' and JJ's self-made bodies, not enough off-season improvement in conditioning.

[BluBones]

I am reminded of the statement that mutual funds append to their prospectus, something like "past performance does not indicate future success." In a constantly changing world, doing what you did yesterday does not guarantee success tomorrow.

That would make sense if we were talking about mutual funds. We're not. We're talking about college basketball programs.

[NYC Crazie]

I am reminded of the statement that mutual funds append to their prospectus, something like "past performance does not indicate future success." In a constantly changing world, doing what you did yesterday does not guarantee success tomorrow.
That is an excellent point. What changes can we make to guarantee success tomorrow?

[Exiled_Devil]

Chip Engelland is currently an assistant coach for the Spurs (was Nuggets shooting coach before that.)

Absolutely phenomenal FT coach, and shooting coach in general. I have watched people spend 5 minutes with him and improve their shot drastically.

My shot was, unfortunately, not salvageable.

Exiled

[Lulu]

Ok, I've wondered this before but now I'm going to ask. After the speculation and wishful thinking I've seen here regarding future assistant coaches (Amaker, Mike G, Laettner!?!,...), does anyone here have any idea what an assistant coaches salary is? I don't, in fact, I can't even guess.

[ItalianDevil]

A
We don't need a new coach for the bigs. The one thing we might need, however, is a new strength and conditioning program. Too much "fatigue" at the end of seasons, too many injuries, and with the exception of Demarcus' and JJ's self-made bodies, not enough off-season improvement in conditioning.

Oh, yes.... Who's to blame for wanting a 7 man max rotation? The conditioning trainer or who made Jamal, Boateng (just the last ones) transfer because of no playing time? Isn't the rotation of UNC one of the reasons for their good shape NOW ? I still think that for every Booz, Shel and Brand (all of them already physically ready to go from day 1), we also have had guys like Shav, Sanders, Thompson, Boateng, Burgess, Domzalski damn, even Joey Beard, that had potential back in their HS days (all of them were top 30 material, some of them were in the top 10). Well, I have loved and hoped for these players, but I think they didn't develop a bit during their tenure at Duke, so they either transferred or imploded. Now, tell me if this just happened by chance or what. Shav was heavily recruited by UNC and all the great NCAA powerhouses, came to Durham instead just to be benched at his first defensive error. No one taught him the offensive game, I saw lots of tapes/DVDs and he never gained confidence, seeming more and more shy. I'm not referring to his injuries here... I love the program, but it's been a few years I'm not seeing good offensive plays. I just saw sporadical great team defense, ball moving and JJ comin' out of nowhere with the three to save the day at -2'' from the 24 clock. This ain't great coaching to me, guys.
When you got thoroughbreads like JJ, JWill, Shane, MikeD, Brand, Booz is way too easy to have 30+ win seasons. But who's great? The coaching staff or the players ? '99 Finals, '04 FF and last year Team USA World championships leave me more than a doubt...
I have loved K as a motivator, mostly. Anyway it seems he has lost the sacred fire for offensive coaching, IMHO.

[MikeBinDC]

I have to agree with ItalianDevil411. It seems like our offense has been stagnant for the past few years. There doesn't seem to be a lot of play calling going on. It almost appears as if ever since the Duke-Maryland National Semi-final game in 2001 when Duke fell behind by 22 points and Coach K told them to just go out and play on their instincts that the Duke offense has consisted mostly of instinctual play and not any set plays. It worked in 2001 because we had guys like Williams, Battier, Boozer, and Dunleavy. We don't have that now, and haven't for several years. This team was too young not to be held by the hand and told what plays to run. The worst example of this play-by-instinct mode we're in has been at the ends of close games where we've held the ball until less than 10 seconds left on the shot clock, only to end up with a horrible offensive possession, often resulting in no shot at all. This has cost us in numerous games this season, as well as past big games, like the ACC Finals and the Final Four game in 2004. I don't understand what the thought process is there, but it certainly appears that in all those cases, we end up playing not to lose instead of playing to win. Another thing that is bothersome is the apparent requirement for a player to attain a certain level of defensive expertise before he is going to be given consistent playing time. This attitude is archaic and needs to change. It's not like our defense has been stopping people lately. At some point, you've just got to say, "Let's just try to outscore them." They say we've had no "go to" guy this season, but I've seen Marty Pocius enough in the past two years to know that he will aggressively try to score. I watched him go off against N.C. State in the ACC Tournament last week and was expecting him to get quite a bit of playing time in the VCU game. Much to my chagrine, that didn't happen, and I don't know why. Tell me we couldn't have used a go-to-the-basket type guy at the end of that game to get us to the next round. It's all very frustrating and I don't know what the answer is. Certainly, if my assessments are correct and Coach K has been making the same mistakes over and over for the past 5 or 6 years, then no one is telling him otherwise, so maybe the back and forth between the assistants and Coach K isn't quite as free flowing as it needs to be, or, as others have suggested, maybe the Duke system is so ingrained in these guys that they don't see anthing wrong either, in which case maybe new blood in the assistant ranks (someone older, more of a peer) would do some good. Duke's greatest success (5 Final Fours in a row and 2 National Championships) came when Mike Brey was an assistant - a non-Dukie and an older guy. Just something to think about.

[mapei]

I think Laettner could be a disaster as a coach. Ask Cherokee Parks.

Anyway, if we recruit new assistants, I think going outside the family might be the way to go. Bring in some freshness.

[Salty Breezes]

MikeBinDC and ItalianDevil411,

While I agree that our offensive play has been, well, offensive at times this year, I'm not sure that we can place this all at K's feet. Yes, he's ultimately responsible for the play on the court, but looking around the ACC, I can't say that there's another coach out there who has a better offensive gameplan and more well-coached players, game in and game out. Roy's boys, for example, should have been able to destroy teams with a three-headed monster of quick transition offense, pounding inside to TH and Wright, and kickout threes to Miller, Terry, Lawson, and Green. Instead, this team relied much too heavily on the one-on-on play of Lawson, TH's offensive rebounding, and Wright's ability to make plays from almost anywhere. And don't get me started on the offenses of Maryland (aside from the Strawberry Scramble, a mess), VT (Seth never figured out how to use Washington and Collins), BC (was Skinner even awake at the end of the season?), and UVa (success was due to Singletary, and no one else).

I think that K did, in fact, revert much more to a play-calling coach this year, as evidenced by our (often brilliant) post-TO plays and by the deliberate way we started most posessions, which, as I watched it, appeared to be very formulaic in order to make sure all of our young kids were on the same page. As the year progressed, I noticed four big offensive problems:

1. Under any amount of pressure, Greg would turn his back to the basket. It's hard to run an offense if you can't see your teammates.

2. Scheyer and Nelson passed up an unbelievable amount of open threes. Can't be done unless there's no one under the basket.

3. Nelson rarely drove the lane. He's got to do more of this, and actually pull up once in a while.

4. Josh rarely caught the ball in the post and worked for a basket. He actually had a good jump hook, and a quick first step. He should have spent all year at the foul line.

I don't think any of these problems relate to game plan. They relate to individual confidence, and for some reason, our guys don't have enough. If anyone can help them develop the confidence, it's K.

I also happen to agree with K's "defense first" philosophy. Marty doesn't play more because he gets caught badly out of position at times. Can't happen. Likewise, Z struggled with footwork, both offensively and defensively. In order to win (as we did in the beginning of the season), Duke needs to know that it can stop you defensively. Somehow, we lost that confidence in the last month. If we get that back, and solve some of the individual issues on offense, we'll be fine.

Salty Breezes

[ItalianDevil]

I don't think any of these problems relate to game plan. They relate to individual confidence, and for some reason, our guys don't have enough. If anyone can help them develop the confidence, it's K.Salty Breezes
Thanks for the reply, Salty. I think the LACK of confidence issue is strictly related to K and the coaching staff. Sometimes the guys seem like sorry Kubrick's recruit a la Full Metal Jacket. In my opinion putting players on the pine as soon as they miss a small defensive task - like giving a lane, losing a cutting player, not screening, etc. - is not building anything in their confidence. I'm still thinking of Shav and all the other guys that partially failed at Duke. Remember that Shav's first game were 23+9 or something like that, after few games his numbers dramatically decreased. And I'm not talking freakin' injuries he had... I think he HAD confidence at first, then losing it.
K must think that maybe a softer, quieter approach is needed with some players. Not all people react well if pushed hard, some guys gain confidence also with small appreciations and encouragement.
I wonder which career he could have had in another big program.
I'm still mad in anger for his underachieving, cause he's not to blame at all IMHO.
Seeing the risk he ran in draft with his last numbers (jr season) I can just imagine how he was frustrated and sick for his situation. I don't know what tale he told the press, I'm sure he was really peed off with his someone.
Any thoughts ?

regards


"coach, Sir !!! can I please penetrate and try a layout, sir?"

[Salty Breezes]

I really have no clue what happened with Shav, ItalianDevil. Personality issues with Wojo or K, lack of heart, not being brought along the right way...I'm just not sure. What couldn't have helped was having a guy like Shelden turn into a complete player and start taking his minutes. That had to be frustrating for the #1 HS player in America. Why they weren't able to turn into a monster inside pair, I just couldn't tell you.

For some reason, our system either succeeds brilliantly or fails miserably to turn guys into hard-nosed, savvy ballers. So many guys developed beyond anyone's wildest expectations over the course of a Duke career -- Chris Carrawell, Antonio Lang, Nate James, Sean Dockery, JJ, Shelden...heck, even Melchionni. Others flamed out or left -- Beard, Shav, Burgess, etc...

This year, we see more of the same. McClure has developed brilliantly. Greg's improving as a shooter. McRoberts has developed a reliable jumper and a wicked jump hook. Gerald will be the man in time. Zoubek and Thomas, however, have been slower to develop, and you just don't know how much is natural growth and progression, and how much is that they don't gell with the coaches or the team. My best guess is that both will have breakout seasons next year -- especially Thomas.

I can't say that it's the system, or the player. My best guess is that it's a bit of both. K is an Army guy, and though he's not a drill seargeant by any means, he certainly seeks out guys with his brand of mental toughness. Paulus has it, and you know that, despite the troubles he's had, K will turn him into the best player he can be. When the connection isn't there, as it apparently wasn't with Shav, things just don't work. K has succeeded for so long by turning good HS players into great collegians by giving them the extra mental edge. It's a high-risk, high-reward strategy that doesn't always pay off. In these days of limited scholarships and one-and-done athletes, one or two bad gambles can set a team back.