Reaction to Duke Chronicle Article?

[coastal1]

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/25/Column/This-Year.Was.NotSogreat-3281839.shtml

Misses a few positive points, but overall pretty accurate, honest assessment

[BlueDevilJay]

I find it pretty humorous, in light of recent discussions on this board, that the Chronicle makes mention of DBR and the delicate policy of pointing out problems with the team. Good article overall I thought, pretty much right on point with how I felt about the season.

[VaDukie]

I think defining a great season as hanging a banner is a shallow measure of success. And saying that the team 'owes' the students championships for their time in K-Ville is very presumptuous. I think he places far too much value on K calling this a 'great' year. I think there isn't any year K doesn't consider great as long as our guys play hard.

[freedevil]

If K is saying publicly that this was a "great" season in the sense that the team played hard, improved, behaved, went to class, won 28 games, and represented Duke well but privately acknowledges to the team and the staff that the play down the stretch was well below his standards, than the article goes too far.

If, however, K believes this season was great in all respects, than I like that the author was willing to question that belief, albeit over the top in some respects (in the sense that to have a great season, you have to go to the Final Four or hang a banner).

[BlueDevilJay]

Yeah, he did go a bit over the top in some of the comments he made, I agree. But the overlying theme I agreed with. I wasn't happy with this season due to the team showing me what they were capable of during midseason (when we peaked IMO) and then didn't keep that up through the tourney. I honestly picked Duke to lose to WVU in my brackets this year, but was hoping for at least a Sweet 16 appearance. I would have been pretty happy with that.

[lmb]

from the article -
"But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

Sorry for the rant.

[Bluedawg]

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/25/Column/This-Year.Was.NotSogreat-3281839.shtml

Misses a few positive points, but overall pretty accurate, honest assessment

WOW...talk about a "take no prisoners” article

[Bluedawg]

from the article -
"But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

Sorry for the rant.

I also disagreed with that line. There is no point in this season where i don't think they gave their all.

[Classof06]

I find it pretty humorous, in light of recent discussions on this board, that the Chronicle makes mention of DBR and the delicate policy of pointing out problems with the team. Good article overall I thought, pretty much right on point with how I felt about the season.

Agreed, that DBR reference was humorous.

While I've never been a huge fan of the Chronicle's sportswriters and I think Yaffe could've done without the "I didn't get my Final Four" rant, there is some truth to what he says.

When looking at Duke after the past 2 seasons (really the past 4-5 years), it's clear that some of the program's shortcomings are exaggerated. Any time the lovely Dana O'Neill from ESPN says "And they haven't been to a Final Four since (gasp) 2004" (not an exact quote but close), you know you truly are the standard of the sport.

But at the same time, it's also impossible to ignore some of the negative trends developing in the program, and I think there are some people (on and off these boards) that are trying so hard to convince themselves that everything's fine. It's not. To be sure, the sky isn't falling but it isn't totally sunny, either. Say what you want about the "madness" of the tournament but our teams have fallen short of expectations for the past three years and it's not really up for debate. Just because I knew we could very conceivably lose to VCU or the winner of WVU/Arizona doesn't excuse the fact that they're games we were supposed to win. The inability to attract and keep quality big men is another issue that is impossible to ignore; you just can't.

Do I think Duke has "lost its luster"? The thought of that is simply laughable when you're 3 or 4 years removed from a Final Four and 2 years removed from something like 7 of the past 9 ACC tourney titles and 9 or 10 Sweet 16s in a row.

Do I think there are some issues confronting the program? Not gigantic ones but I'd be naive to say none.

[Jumbo]

from the article -
"But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

Sorry for the rant.

Bingo. I have two reactions:

As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates an ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.

[miramar]

Many of the things he says are fine, but I don't like the tone of the article much. The Chronicle should remember that they are talking about fellow students, not professional players. I remember in the late 1980s that Coach K really took a Chronicle reporter to task for the same problem, with a florid vocabulary no less, but the intrepid reporter was able to record the whole thing, which made for an even more interesting second article.

We all know that Coach K is fully aware that 28-6 is not great when you start 22-1, but these are his players, all of them young men, and he needs to build them up for next year while also sending DeMarcus out on a positive note. In that sense, he needs to remind them of all that they accomplished, which is easy to overlook because of the problems at the end of the year.

But of course the author is young too, and is surely disappointed in the outcome just as the players are.

One thing that I do not like much is the insistence on getting the one and done players. I realize that is the new reality, but I am not sure that is what Duke stands for. Coach K was obviously very upset when Luol Deng left after one year, and I don't know if we really want to follow the Syracuse/Carmelo Anthony example, even though it was successful in the short run.

Finally, I disagree with the idea that Duke is not improving its players. Different players develop at different rates. Many of us remember how Elton Brand was already the POY by his sophomore year, but also how much Shane Battier improved between that same sophomore year and his POY senior season.

I really expect to see tremendous improvement for next year, and that won't be affected by the staff's participation in the Olympics. I think Coach K sees that as his duty, which is very commendable on his part.

[Shammrog]

Bingo. I have two reactions:

As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates and ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.

Hey - our program is not at its best performance-wise right now. And I may post more on that later.

BUT ANYONE WHO DOESN'T THINK OUR PLAYERS BUSTED THEIR ***ES EVERY NIGHT IS DUMB. And, honestly, that kind of assertion p*sses me off.

They gave it their all. Though we faded a bit at the end (ACC/NCAA tourney), a 28 win season is PHENOMENAL OVERACHIEVEMENT BY A VERY YOUNG TEAM! How many programs, including the elite majors, have had a consistent record of winning in the 2000s as good as Duke's??? How many major, major programs would chew off their collective arms for a 28 win season???

Yes, we have some issues right now. But, the effort of our players and coaches is certainly not one of them.

[wisteria]

while I find most of the points he was making valid, I also find it disgusting to read that line about "sleeping in cold for 2 months." And he dared to represent the whole Cameron Crazies in such way! Fans have the rights to be upset about the outcome and they have the rights to voice reasonable opinions. But to imply that because the team didn't succeed in the end makes them unworthy to support ....That paints a wrong image about the whole fan base.

[Mike Corey]

My biggest problem with the piece by Mr. Yaffe is that he has taken a single word after the end of an emotional game and emotional season, and has extrapolated an entire point of view about how Coach K assessed the season, the team, and so forth.

It's a useful tool when writing a column, to be sure. But is it fair? I think not.

While the rest of us--myself included--were calling this a "great" team when we were 22-1, Coach K was the one insisting that this was a "good, not great" team.

And yet the moment he attempts to offer some praise to his team, knowing full well the fallout in the media and among supporters following the loss to WVU, Coach K offered a single word of praise for his team and what they had in fact accomplished, shortcomings and all.

Extrapolating that word, from that context, into a beratement of Coach K seems unfair at best, and mean-spirited at worst.

Are there honest questions to be asked? Absolutely.

Did Mr. Yaffe go about that in the most thoughtful of ways? I do not think so.

Mr. Yaffe assumes that Coach K thinks all is well in Durham; he assumes that Coach K is satisfied--nay, pleased--with the season's outcome.

And while it would be equally inappropriate for me to assume that which is on Coach K's mind, I think it is absurd to have taken a single word from a postgame presser, and use that to pummel the players, the staff and anyone willing to offer an optimistic slant on the direction of the program.

Lastly, Yaffe's conclusion is, well, "not so great."


But I sure would like to see a little more urgency in the search for solutions. If Coach K really wants his teams to be great, he has to understand that this one wasn't.

These words, and the sentiments thereof, are condescending to the nth-degree.

So it goes.

[coastal1]

Bratty - certainly. But do you honestly think K Ville would exist if just getting to the Tourney was a great season? And I don't say this to dwell on the word "great," just to point out that there is a reason there is a tent village at duke and not at E. Ky

Maybe everyone's expectations should be different, but thats not really the point


Bingo. I have two reactions:

As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates and ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.

[colchar]

Bingo. I have two reactions:

As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.



I'm not too familiar with the Chronicle (at least not this one) but isn't this an opinion piece?

[Mike Corey]

I'm not too familiar with the Chronicle (at least not this one) but isn't this an opinion piece?

Opinions require substantiation.

His, in this piece, is a single word from Coach K's postgame presser.

[BlueintheFace]

Bingo. I have two reactions:

As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates and ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.

Jumbo,
I respectfully disagree with you here on several points. First of all, a column does not necessarily need to "report." Yaffe made no attempt to report because he is a sports columnist providing commentary. Agree or disagree with his view, this is the purpose of the piece.

Second, Coach K brings in the crazies every year and tells them that they are the 6th man- that they are a part of the team. Coach K feels that the student body SHOULD fill Cameron and fulfill their role on the team. He expects a certain level of performance out of them and is quick to state his disappointment when they fall short (publicly and privately). K firmly believes in this student body-team relationship. That being said, why shouldn't student express disappointment when the team's performance isn't up to the standards set by Duke. If Coach K can criticize the 6th man for not living up to the program's historical standards, why can't the 6th man criticize the team and coach's performance for the exact same reason?

The Crazies give it their all and are criticized when they fall short... the team gave it their all and were criticized when they fell short. Yaffe's article looks at a lot of the same things that I'm sure the coaching staff will look at too. We are all in a state of introspection- those in the starting rotation and those who have come to be labeled by our Coach as the 6th man. Ultimately, we all want to win and such criticism hardly seemed destructive or inaccurate.

[wisteria]

let's just wait till the public media gets hold of this. "More trouble for Duke: fanbase in uproar".

[Rudy]

from the article -
"But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

Sorry for the rant.

Not a rant at all. Very well said. Consider posting it under the Chronicle article.

[wisteria]

Not a rant at all. Very well said. Consider posting it under the Chronicle article.

Don't worry. Tomorrow's Chronicle reader letters will be full of replies.

[VaDukie]

Jumbo,
I respectfully disagree with you here on several points. First of all, a column does not necessarily need to "report." Yaffe made no attempt to report because he is a sports columnist providing commentary. Agree or disagree with his view, this is the purpose of the piece.

Second, Coach K brings in the crazies every year and tells them that they are the 6th man- that they are a part of the team. Coach K feels that the student body SHOULD fill Cameron and fulfill their role on the team. He expects a certain level of performance out of them and is quick to state his disappointment when they fall short (publicly and privately). K firmly believes in this student body-team relationship. That being said, why shouldn't student express disappointment when the team's performance isn't up to the standards set by Duke. If Coach K can criticize the 6th man for not living up to the program's historical standards, why can't the 6th man criticize the team and coach's performance for the exact same reason?

The Crazies give it their all and are criticized when they fall short... the team gave it their all and were criticized when they fell short. Yaffe's article looks at a lot of the same things that I'm sure the coaching staff will look at too. We are all in a state of introspection- those in the starting rotation and those who have come to be labeled by our Coach as the 6th man. Ultimately, we all want to win and such criticism hardly seemed destructive or inaccurate.


Big difference between Cameron Crazies and the players themselves: We're not competing against anyone. If we don't do our best, it's entirely on us. Sometimes our guys just face better teams.

[calltheobvious]

I'm not too familiar with the Chronicle (at least not this one) but isn't this an opinion piece?

If I might be so bold, I think Jumbo's point was not that a column need necessarily contain hard reporting, but that if it's not going to be written very well it needs something, i.e. some reporting, to help prop it up.

There are a lot of mediocre writers (and a few poor ones) who are still decent columnists because they include enough interesting news in their columns to help the readers forget they're not reading James Murray.

[BlueintheFace]

Big difference between Cameron Crazies and the players themselves: We're not competing against anyone. If we don't do our best, it's entirely on us. Sometimes our guys just face better teams.


Thats true, but my point is that by really "making us a part of the team" every year, K has allowed us to invest ourselves enough in the program to feel these emotions of disappointment and betrayal. A valid point though, to be sure.

[Jumbo]

Jumbo,
I respectfully disagree with you here on several points. First of all, a column does not necessarily need to "report." Yaffe made no attempt to report because he is a sports columnist providing commentary. Agree or disagree with his view, this is the purpose of the piece.

Au contraire. Since journalism is my field, I think I actually know something about this subject. Sure a column doesn't need reporting. A good one does. There is absolutely no context for K's quote nor factual support for many of his arguments. It's pure opinion, and unsubstantiated at that.



Second, Coach K brings in the crazies every year and tells them that they are the 6th man- that they are a part of the team. Coach K feels that the student body SHOULD fill Cameron and fulfill their role on the team. He expects a certain level of performance out of them and is quick to state his disappointment when they fall short (publicly and privately). K firmly believes in this student body-team relationship. That being said, why shouldn't student express disappointment when the team's performance isn't up to the standards set by Duke. If Coach K can criticize the 6th man for not living up to the program's historical standards, why can't the 6th man criticize the team and coach's performance for the exact same reason?
Apples and oranges. There is a difference between criticizing results and criticizing effort. And there is a huge difference between entitlement (i.e. -- we slept out in the cold for X) and exhorting (the crowd can be better, which will help us, because they are part of the team).

[appzter]

I also disagreed with that line. There is no point in this season where i don't think they gave their all.

You misread.


But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all.

Nobody thinks the players don't try. All that's being said is that, since we are such a great program, we should hold ourselves to high standards -- standards higher than those that consider a 28-6 second-round exit "great".

Moreover, the fact that our standards seem to have lessened indicates that our program has run into some problems. Yaffe tries to identify those problems as being rebounding/interior play and recruiting (which are, he says, related issues).

I disagree with the promotion of one-and-done players but agree with the idea of the article overall. And like others have said, it's an opinion column. Yaffe states his opinion and backs it up with evidence. Whether you agree with the opinion or think that the evidence is relevant/irrelevant or strong/weak is up to you.

[BlueintheFace]

Apples and oranges. There is a difference between criticizing results and criticizing effort. And there is a huge difference between entitlement (i.e. -- we slept out in the cold for X) and exhorting (the crowd can be better, which will help us, because they are part of the team).

Coach K criticizes the Crazies' effort (attendance) AND performance (loudness) from time to time. Yaffe criticizes the teams' performance (wins and losses) in this article. Both are criticizing performance. Both feel that they deserve better from time to time and both tend to be right.

[dkbaseball]

As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

I would soften this judgment a bit; the writing is competent enough for an undergraduate. I used to be managing editor of Policy Review magazine. If I were line editing the piece, I would make two minor corrections, and re-work a sentence that was less than clear. It's a much cleaner effort than most of even the A papers I got when I was grading undergraduates.

As for the content -- yes, definitely a thumbsucker that could have benefitted from a bit of reporting, and the sense of entitlement was a bit grating. But striking the right tone, supporting your viewpoint, these are the main sorts of things you're learning as an undergrad writer. I think Yaffe's writing has a nice rhythm to it, and I would regard him as promising.

[Jumbo]

Coach K criticizes the Crazies' effort (attendance) AND performance (loudness) from time to time. Yaffe criticizes the teams' performance (wins and losses) in this article. Both are criticizing performance. Both feel that they deserve better from time to time and both tend to be right.

Again, it's apples and oranges. No one is saying Yaffe can't criticize Duke. He just has no grounds upon which to judge effort, which is what he does, nonetheless. K can judge the crowd's effort because, you know, he can hear how loud they are. Additionally, K would never say "I don't work 17 hours a day to see the corners empty in Cameron." He might say, "We should fill the corners in Cameron." One is entitlement. The other isn't. The comment about sleeping out in the cold is pure entitlement.

[buddy]

I think the column accomplished its purpose, which is to get people to look at the basketball program with something other than rose colored glasses. When the team was 22-1 (with the one loss being in OT) and had beaten Carolina (on the road), it was reasonable to hope for a much better finish. At that point the team clearly had overachieved, whether due to a relatively weak schedule, taking advantage of opponents who had not jelled, or whatever. Finishing 6-5, with a solid butt-whipping at Wake, a tense and exciting but otherwise disappointing failure to score against Carolina in the last 5:40, a totally unexpected nail biter with Belmont (BELMONT!!!), and then another solid butt-whipping by WVU, is just inexplicable in light of the first two thirds of the season. Not closing out our opponents at the end of games is very un-Duke like. There is, and should be, a close relationship between the students and the team. (Ted Roof would have killed for such a relationship.) And K has not been bashful about criticizing the students when they don't show up (see last year). Being one of two classes in 25 years or so to not make a Final Four is a little whiny. But those ARE the expectations at Duke. Expectations set by K. For many schools (see Maryland and Virginia Tech) our last two seasons would be stellar. When we are satisfied with those results, our program is bankrupt.

[Spret42]

Again, it's apples and oranges. No one is saying Yaffe can't criticize Duke. He just has no grounds upon which to judge effort, which is what he does, nonetheless. K can judge the crowd's effort because, you know, he can hear how loud they are. Additionally, K would never say "I don't work 17 hours a day to see the corners empty in Cameron." He might say, "We should fill the corners in Cameron." One is entitlement. The other isn't. The comment about sleeping out in the cold is pure entitlement.

There you go.

That line about no one sleeps in the cold just to see players give their all is purely ridiculous. You CHOSE to sleep out in the cold. And if you think doing so entitles them to constant wins life is about to wake em up.

Life will eventually show young Mr. Yaffe that effort doesn't always equate to success. One can put forth maximum effort and still end up flat on his rear end wondering what the hell just happened.

[BlueintheFace]

Again, it's apples and oranges. No one is saying Yaffe can't criticize Duke. He just has no grounds upon which to judge effort, which is what he does, nonetheless. K can judge the crowd's effort because, you know, he can hear how loud they are. Additionally, K would never say "I don't work 17 hours a day to see the corners empty in Cameron." He might say, "We should fill the corners in Cameron." One is entitlement. The other isn't. The comment about sleeping out in the cold is pure entitlement.

I suppose you and I simply disagree on the line about sleeping outside. The Duke players feel confident in their abilities- they feel that if they do their part and try their hardest, the team will live up to Duke standards set over the last 25 years. Their confidence spills over into the 6th Man and the crazies get that same confidence. I'm sure a lot of players are thinking back over the season right now and thinking.... "why weren't we more successful? Did we have all the right pieces? We worked so hard and put in so many hours and what do we have to show for it?" I think these are the same questions being asked by Yaffe.

Regarding Effort-- where in the whole article does Yaffe criticize effort? I suppose I am missing something. Please point me to where he questions the players' efforts?

[Bluedawg]

Bingo. I have two reactions:

As a journalist, I found the column to be mediocre writing laced with absolutely no reporting. Yaffe, if you're reading this (and I know you are), you need an editor. Badly.

As a human, I find his saying "But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all" to be reprehensible. The team owes him NOTHING. That sense of entitlement is disgusting, it perpetuates and ugly stereotype of Duke students as spoiled brats and serves no purpose.

I took it for what it was, an opinion piece not a news article.

Your comment concerning the lack of reporting was made clear when, after complaining about Wojo being the "big man coach" and how that can't work, he said
Having never been to practice, it's difficult to say whether that's true.

[RelativeWays]

Betrayal? Disappointment sure, but I'm not sure how any Duke fan could feel "betrayed" unless they threw the post season for UNC.

[Udaman]

I must admit (and this is coming from a 1990 grad) that the fact that the tenters have slept out about 150 nights over the past three years to watch the Duke - Carolina game, and we've gone 0-3 in those games - with Carolina leading for about 80% of the total minutes....is kind of funny.

Guess I would be miffed too if that happened. Then again, the 150 nights of tenting is completely self-inflicted. Back in my four years, we camped out a total of 5 nights to go 1-3.

[Bluedawg]

You misread.





You are correct, but reading it the right way makes it even more silly.

[bdh21]

But I sure would like to see a little more urgency in the search for solutions. If Coach K really wants his teams to be great, he has to understand that this one wasn't.

I know we all have our "connections" and we heard so-and-so from or about x player. Me personally, I roomed for 2 years and was great friends with a 4-year manager while at Duke. While I've never gotten any privileged information or inside-info, I have heard a ton what Coach K is like behind the scenes as well as his attitude towards basketball and life.

That having been said, Andrew Yaffe is not only condescending, he is grossly ignorant about his subject. Coach K is the most competitive SOB (and i mean that affectionately) you could ever meet.

If you think Laettner or Battier or Redick hated losing, they've got nothing on the master.

If you think Coach K doesn't privately have an awful, wrenching feeling about Duke's tourney performance than you'd be dead wrong.

If any of you think you are a tenth as disappointed about Duke losing any game (much less an NCAA 2nd rounder) as Coach K, think again. Coach K's great gift is to turn that disappointment into a fire to motivate and improve. We all know about "next play," but just as telling is "here's to never forgetting that game."

If you think K wouldn't do anything and everything, short of dishonor, to prepare his team to win games, you're mistaken. If that's not urgency, I don't know what is.



If it is-if Krzyzewski truly thinks this season was "great"-then something about Duke Basketball needs to change.

Are you kidding me, Yaffe? You're talking about a man who says to the fans "at Duke we only storm the court for national championships." We're talking about the guy who said Duke football would never be able to recruit if they told recruits their goal was just to "be competitive" instead of to win championships.

You can guarantee the day Coach K does not have the utmost urgency to win championships will be the day he retires. Most likely, though, he will retire long before that day ever comes.

I know I'm speculating on Coach K's attitude as well. I'm just not as ignorant as Mr. Yaffe.

[Kdogg]

Guess I would be miffed too if that happened. Then again, the 150 nights of tenting is completely self-inflicted. Back in my four years, we camped out a total of 5 nights to go 1-3.

I totally agree. The length of tenting is ridiculous and self-inflicted. This kids need to learn either game theory or pop bio.

[Crazie'11]

As a freshman this year, I had the opportunity to live in Tent Scheyer (#30) for 2+ months, and loved every bit of it. Sure it was cold, miserably so at times, but the sheer magnitude of what we were there for was unbelievable. There are no fans more devoted to their team than the Crazies. That being said, 10 of my 11 tentmates were seniors this year, and although they were heartbroken after the loss, none of them had the gall to suggest that our players did not give enough, and that they deserved better. To do so is utterly appalling.

You can always tell who the fairweather fans are, because they'll stop supporting our team the second we lose. This article smacks of sheer arrogance - we tent for the joy of seeing one of the greatest basketball games on earth and cheering on our team, not because we think it is our birthright as Duke fans to see a win.

[dukepsy1963]

it looks like "free speech" is alive and well. But, talk about being "destructive"....yeow.....not much constructive criticism as far as I could see. Opinion for the most part............

Who would have thunk that a bloody "game" could generate such venom from otherwise intelligent human beings. And I don't mean just Duke fans here by any means. I sometimes seriously think about tearing loose that part of me that enjoys basketball so much. There are plenty of other things that are so much more important.


Go Duke!

[coastal1]

As a freshman this year, I had the opportunity to live in Tent Scheyer (#30) for 2+ months, and loved every bit of it. Sure it was cold, miserably so at times, but the sheer magnitude of what we were there for was unbelievable.

Thats a little dramatic

[bluebear]

I must admit (and this is coming from a 1990 grad) that the fact that the tenters have slept out about 150 nights over the past three years to watch the Duke - Carolina game, and we've gone 0-3 in those games - with Carolina leading for about 80% of the total minutes....is kind of funny.

Guess I would be miffed too if that happened. Then again, the 150 nights of tenting is completely self-inflicted. Back in my four years, we camped out a total of 5 nights to go 1-3.

I camped out for ~100 nights to go 1-3 (though that Capel shot makes it feel more like 2-2) and wouldn't trade it for the world. This column is embarrassing...

[appzter]

As a freshman this year, I had the opportunity to live in Tent Scheyer (#30) for 2+ months, and loved every bit of it. Sure it was cold, miserably so at times, but the sheer magnitude of what we were there for was unbelievable. There are no fans more devoted to their team than the Crazies. That being said, 10 of my 11 tentmates were seniors this year, and although they were heartbroken after the loss, none of them had the gall to suggest that our players did not give enough, and that they deserved better. To do so is utterly appalling.

You can always tell who the fairweather fans are, because they'll stop supporting our team the second we lose. This article smacks of sheer arrogance - we tent for the joy of seeing one of the greatest basketball games on earth and cheering on our team, not because we think it is our birthright as Duke fans to see a win.

Like I posted to someone before, Yaffe does *not* say that the tenters think that they didn't try hard. I think people are really misinterpreting this line.

[dukepsy1963]

it looks like "free speech" is alive and well. But, talk about being "destructive"....yeow.....not much constructive criticism as far as I could see. Opinion for the most part............

Who would have thunk that a bloody "game" could generate such venom from otherwise intelligent human beings. And I don't mean just Duke fans here by any means. I sometimes seriously think about tearing loose that part of me that enjoys basketball so much. There are plenty of other things that are so much more important.


Go Duke!

What became of the concept of a "good (and appreciative) loser"? I dare say most players (regardless of team or school) are; but more and more fans around the world aren't. Why can't we appreciate the "old college try" anymore?

[coastal1]

Like I posted to someone before, Yaffe does *not* say that the tenters think that they didn't try hard. I think people are really misinterpreting this line.

Seriously... why is this so confusing for people... wal mart fans?

[atl52]

Past performance breeds future expectations. I understand why some passionate, dedicated fans are disappointed; it's a human response.

The issue is when people take it to the point of denigrating indviduals. While Mr. Yaffe's article has a pouty tone, it is clear he cares about the team.

Our current players have left their hearts on the court and I value their involvement. DeMarcus is one of those guys who will have a great career -- playing or post-basketball -- because of his heart and quiet leadership. I expect great things from him. I also expect next year's team to build on this year and surprise some folks next year.

In general, I think this discussion would go away if Coach K were to come out and say something to the effect of "we had a successful season, but at Duke we have high expectations for our program, and we are committed to delivering on those expectations"...that said, the words are less important to me than the behind-the-scenes actions to make it happen.

[loran16]

I preferred Greg Beaton's article before the tournament (where he expressed his putting his hopes up on this team not to make his year the first since 98 to never make the final four), but I agree with Yaffe somewhat.

Naturally, I'm scared my year (Trinity 09) will have the same fate as Yaffe and Beaton's 08 class....the class of 09 is Not looking like it's going to be of that caliber. But I will hope that it matures and becomes so....Greg Paulus was once the #1 rated PG out of HS and I feel Gerald can truly become a superstar next year.

Maybe we do feel a bit entitled, and I hate the tenter comment in the article. But Duke is the most hated school in the world to the point of being unbearable, and the joy that 3/4 of the sport sites/newspapers seemed to share on Sunday only increases our bitterness as Duke Students in this present time and makes us have these feelings. It's hard to say "Oh well, maybe next year" when so many people are laughing (schaedenfreude much?), especially for those who are graduating without a mark that the critics come to expect from duke.

[DukeDevilDeb]

I think defining a great season as hanging a banner is a shallow measure of success. And saying that the team 'owes' the students championships for their time in K-Ville is very presumptuous. I think he places far too much value on K calling this a 'great' year. I think there isn't any year K doesn't consider great as long as our guys play hard.

Frankly, the team doesn't owe faculty or fellow students ANYTHING. I saw 6 of the guys today in class. They are broken hearted about being back with no basketball left to play. One of them said, "You know, it's really hard to get up with no purpose." I think that's true.

Those of you who feel that the team let you down... try being compassionate and understanding. Have you never failed to live up to an expectation? That's really hard, no matter what the age or area. These guys wanted to bring home a championship from the ACC as well as the NCAA tournament... but it didn't happen for many, many reasons. No reason to bash them.

Instead, let's look to next year, the first time in a while where we will have a significant upperclass base. Doesn't bring Hurley, Laettner, and Hill back... nothing will (and some of you sound as though teams who don't perform like those aren't worth having!). But there are many positives to look forward to and I, for one, can't wait for the Blue-White game, 2008!

[wisteria]

personally I think this whole "2nd class to graduate without a final 4" or next year being the 3rd class is really being blown out of proportion. As if the team didn't have enough pressure going into the tournament, this point was made thousand of times. I'm pretty sure that DeMarcus had to hear it every day. I think it's pretty clear that DeMarcus broke down under the sheer amount of pressure. Yes, Duke players should be able to face challenge and expectation. But there's pressure, there's unnecessary pressure. Instead of appreciating how lucky the other classes were, people take final 4 appearance as something promised to them when they matriculated.

[weezie]

Condescending to or "threatening" the team with the attitude that they should do a better job next year, or else, is pretty ridiculous. DukeDevilDeb is right; these are still college kids we are criticizing, even the goof who wrote the Chronicle column.
I'm saddened to hear that the players wake up missing their season but that's a part of growing, too. Coach K knows how to deal with their disappointment, he'll help them through their moments of doubt.
I'm looking forward to the team banquet in a few weeks, should be very interesting.

[blazindw]

I have a couple points:

1) I would like to correct everyone in saying that the Class of 2008 has been to a Final Four: a Women's Final Four. In fact, they have seen a championship game. Now, before you go saying that the journalist was clearly referring to the men's team, I would say that I take pride in the success of the women's team just as much as I do the men. In my 4 years at Duke, I always say that our class saw our basketball teams go to 4 Final Fours: men in '01 and '04, and women in '02 and '03. I attended the Men's Final Four in '04 (I still shudder when I talk about it) and the Women's Final Four in '03. I have attended 1st and 2nd round matchups for the men and women alike. So, to say that the Class of 2008 was so unfortunate as to not see a team go to the Final Four, they all forget how close we were to hanging another national championship banner in 2006.

We also had field hockey go to several final fours and championship games, our lacrosse team has come within an eyelash of 2 national championships despite the recent issues they have had to deal with, and we have a 3-time defending national champion women's golf team. The soccer teams have all had success, with the men's team reaching the final four a few years ago. Football may have had very little to smile about when I was there, but I only missed 1 football game when I was there, so I was there to smile with the team when the chips fell our way. Sure, our school is considered a basketball school, and I'm the first one to harp on the success of our men's teams. But anyone who knows me knows I talk with equal pride about all our teams and their successes.

2) Tenting is a privilege and a choice, not an entitlement or right. People lose their spots in line or get banished from the tenting process every year for various reasons. It's no one's right to be a resident of K-Ville, it's something they choose to do, and they also choose to follow the rules of K-Ville while they reside there or risk being bumped. When I was HLM, I considered it a privilege and a huge honor to serve as the man in charge. I felt lucky that I was a part of such a unique experience, one that whether people hate our team or not is viewed as one of the best things to do in any college or university in the nation. During my years, we only lost in Cameron 3 times (UNC tenting game '01, UMd tenting game '01, GT student senior game '04). But no matter what, those guys gave it their all every game. Never once did I think that it was something that was supposed to happen for me, and if it didn't then I was owed my experience back. If we lost, it only made us stronger.

Just remember, we all bleed Duke Blue. We laugh and cheer the good times with the team. Some of us cry and scream during the rough times. But you know what? The best part about being a fan of Duke basketball - men and women - is that the next day, no matter what, you wake up the next day in eager anticipation of the next game, the next play. And do you know why the last loss of the year always hurts the most? Because for me, it means that seven months must go by before that eager anticipation I yearn will be able to return in its fullest.

So this season didn't end with us playing in April. That doesn't mean that people should panic. If we were Insert-Random-State Directional State University, 28-6 would be something we forever talked about, where we would tell our grandchildren about the glory that was the 2008 basketball season. Getting bounced in the 2nd round wasn't something I wanted to happen. Watching us lose in person wasn't something I wanted to happen. But it did, and even though our season was cut short, for whatever reason, that's no reason to say that this season was the abysmal disaster that Yaffe claims it is. 28-6 is still a great season. It may not have ended with us raising NC banner #4, but we now focus on next year and how we can make 2009 that much better.

We reload. We retool our offense. We retool our defense. DeMarcus, unfortunately for us, graduates, and we thank him for his galiant 4 years in a Duke uniform as our captain and the rock of our team. Yet, we have 2 great players coming in, and we have the other 10-11 players returning stronger, faster, in shape, and better. We will still be a force. "DUKE" will still be on the front of their jerseys. The entire nation will still hate us. And, I feel, we will respond.

Now, we still have basketball to watch, as our women have made the Sweet 16. Let's cheer them on, and hopefully they play well enough to punch their own ticket to the Final Four.

[zingit]

Can we cut the guy some slack on the tenting line? I'm a junior who's tented all three years and watched us lose to Carolina all three years. I don't regret tenting, as there were other fun things about tenting with friends and cheering on the team and watching the games even though we lost, but still. . . there's no denying that those losses were very, very frustrating and disappointing. Come on, that's a pretty natural reaction, even for a devoted fan. *Especially* for a devoted fan.

[NYC Duke Fan]

Many of the things he says are fine, but I don't like the tone of the article much. The Chronicle should remember that they are talking about fellow students, not professional players. I remember in the late 1980s that Coach K really took a Chronicle reporter to task for the same problem, with a florid vocabulary no less, but the intrepid reporter was able to record the whole thing, which made for an even more interesting second article.

We all know that Coach K is fully aware that 28-6 is not great when you start 22-1, but these are his players, all of them young men, and he needs to build them up for next year while also sending DeMarcus out on a positive note. In that sense, he needs to remind them of all that they accomplished, which is easy to overlook because of the problems at the end of the year.

But of course the author is young too, and is surely disappointed in the outcome just as the players are.

One thing that I do not like much is the insistence on getting the one and done players. I realize that is the new reality, but I am not sure that is what Duke stands for. Coach K was obviously very upset when Luol Deng left after one year, and I don't know if we really want to follow the Syracuse/Carmelo Anthony example, even though it was successful in the short run.

Finally, I disagree with the idea that Duke is not improving its players. Different players develop at different rates. Many of us remember how Elton Brand was already the POY by his sophomore year, but also how much Shane Battier improved between that same sophomore year and his POY senior season.

I really expect to see tremendous improvement for next year, and that won't be affected by the staff's participation in the Olympics. I think Coach K sees that as his duty, which is very commendable on his part.

I have 2 questions for you. First is where do you see, "tremendous improvement", next year ? Will the team improve...I believe they will, but ,"tremendous improvement", would imply that they could win a National championship and unless you can tell me how they are going to solve the deficiencies that existed this year and were exposed, then I do not see that happening. I am not sure that they will win as many games next year as they did this year based on the fact that the ACC should be a stronger conference.

Secondly, what is so wrong with having a one and done player on your team if that person could, and I emphasize ,"could ", win you a championship? I am not saying that that the team should be made up of one and done players, but having one on the team is not so terrible. How would the team have looked this year with a Kevin Love, Patrick Patterson ( I know we recruited him heavily), or a Michael Beasley ?

[ClosetHurleyFan]

Just curious to hear your Duke perspective........I personally hated the "fans sit out the cold for two months to see greatness" bit. Spare me, do you want me to play a violin? Please. Like the fan's sacrifice even begins to compare to what these kids put in 40 to 50 hours a week for this basketball team.

However, beyond that, was there any fair critiques being made?

[Bluedog]

See http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8271.

[Shammrog]

I have 2 questions for you. First is where do you see, "tremendous improvement", next year ? Will the team improve...I believe they will, but ,"tremendous improvement", would imply that they could win a National championship and unless you can tell me how they are going to solve the deficiencies that existed this year and were exposed, then I do not see that happening. I am not sure that they will win as many games next year as they did this year based on the fact that the ACC should be a stronger conference.

Secondly, what is so wrong with having a one and done player on your team if that person could, and I emphasize ,"could ", win you a championship? I am not saying that that the team should be made up of one and done players, but having one on the team is not so terrible. How would the team have looked this year with a Kevin Love, Patrick Patterson ( I know we recruited him heavily), or a Michael Beasley ?

Well, Michael Beasley wouldn't have been able to stay eligible... :)

[Troublemaker]

Just curious to hear your Duke perspective........I personally hated the "fans sit out the cold for two months to see greatness" bit. Spare me, do you want me to play a violin? Please. Like the fan's sacrifice even begins to compare to what these kids put in 40 to 50 hours a week for this basketball team.

However, beyond that, was there any fair critiques being made?

Very little. I agree with Mike Corey's take on the first page of this thread.

The author Yaffe
(a) overreacted to / misunderstood the usage of one word ("great") and founded his entire article on this faulty premise
(b) condescended, as if he had a better understanding of seasons and accomplishment than Coach K
(c) acted like he, a fan, was owed something.

Whatever basketball critiques he may have made (and I forget if he made any) were completely muddled by the above.

Yaffe is (presumably) young. In 10 years, he will probably be embarrassed (one would hope) by the article he wrote. It's not like he deserves to be gutted with a knife or anything. A mistake of youth (one would hope), nothing more.

[Edouble]

So this season didn't end with us playing in April. That doesn't mean that people should panic. If we were Insert-Random-State Directional State University, 28-6 would be something we forever talked about, where we would tell our grandchildren about the glory that was the 2008 basketball season. Getting bounced in the 2nd round wasn't something I wanted to happen. Watching us lose in person wasn't something I wanted to happen. But it did, and even though our season was cut short, for whatever reason, that's no reason to say that this season was the abysmal disaster that Yaffe claims it is. 28-6 is still a great season. It may not have ended with us raising NC banner #4, but we now focus on next year and how we can make 2009 that much better.

We reload. We retool our offense. We retool our defense. DeMarcus, unfortunately for us, graduates, and we thank him for his galiant 4 years in a Duke uniform as our captain and the rock of our team. Yet, we have 2 great players coming in, and we have the other 10-11 players returning stronger, faster, in shape, and better. We will still be a force. "DUKE" will still be on the front of their jerseys. The entire nation will still hate us. And, I feel, we will respond.

Yeah, but we're not Eastern Utah University. OK? We're Duke. 28-6 is shocking when you start out 22-1. If we'd started out 8-5, then you're right 28-6 would be great. Duke, under Coach K, used to have a reputation for peaking in March when it mattered the most. That reputation is out the window.

I think the article is right on. The writer is focusing on making 2009 better. If this year was great, as you say, then why would we need to make all of these retoolong adjustments to make next year better anyway?

Respond next year? This was the year we were supposed to respond to losing in the first round of the NCAAs. And the response was to squeak by the first round and get killed in the second round? I appreciate that the writer has the guts to ask the tough questions and point out the obvious, painful truth.

[Matches]

Yeah, but we're not Eastern Utah University. OK? We're Duke. 28-6 is shocking when you start out 22-1. If we'd started out 8-5, then you're right 28-6 would be great. Duke, under Coach K, used to have a reputation for peaking in March when it mattered the most. That reputation is out the window.



Yep. If that represents a "sense of entitlement", then so be it, but I've heard over and over that Duke basketball is about winning championships. We all know it's absurd to expect a NC or Final 4 every year, but that should always be the goal. Keeping in mind the notion that on "any given night", one team can knock off another, and the inherent unpredictability of the NCAA Tournament - we used to peak in March most years. For the last 3-4 we've peaked in January or early February. That IS a trend, and it would be silly to just ignore it.

That said, I do think the article somewhat unfairly seizes upon one word used by K - saying this season was "great" is a pretty obvious overstatement, but geez.. he's a coach. Coaches overstate and understate things all the time - particularly when there's a specific reason to, i.e. the desire to *not* toss the players under the bus. They worked hard, they played hard, and K's comments read to me as an attempt to recognize that effort.

But for anyone that really *does* think this season was "great" - wouldn't we all be laughing hysterically at our "friends" down 15-501 if they achieved similar results? I recall nearly splitting a side laughing at their very similar 2001 season.

[mlk]

I think over all the season was better then most thought going in however early wins gave everyone much hope. I do think that the comments about the development problems our big men was right on.

[Matches]

I think over all the season was better then most thought going in however early wins gave everyone much hope. I do think that the comments about the development problems our big men was right on.

I actually think Wojo is a pretty good big man coach. Watching Boozer and Shelden in particular over their careers, both started raw but were very polished, very fundamentally sound big men by the time they left. If Wojo is to take the blame for Boateng or whoever, he should also get some credit for the successes.

I don't doubt for a second, though, that the fact that our big man coach is a 5'10" former point guard who never sniffed the NBA is being used against us like a sledgehammer in recruiting.

[SupaDave]

from the article -
"But Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all."

I did not attend Duke. I'm so sorry that the Cameron Crazies were inconvenienced in any way this year. I for one, would have given my right leg to be a tenter and to experience the camaraderie and sense of being part of "the team" that tenting would provide. And frankly, seeing players give their all is exactly why I root for Duke and have rooted for them for over two decades.

From what I can tell, these athletes are great people and they weren't put on this earth for the sole purpose of entertaining some college students. I love to watch the progression of those who stay four years and enjoy seeing their success in their chosen professions. The game, while not secondary, certainly has far less importance in the big picture of life than the fact that many go on to be fantastic citizens.

I believe it's okay to question game strategies, recruiting, bench usage, etc., but making a self-centered comment like the one above really steams me. When you put it in an equal amount of sweat equity as those boys in blue invest, then you have a right to complain. Until then, cut them some slack and keep those types of opinions to yourself.

Sorry for the rant.

Well said. As a person presently trying to get into Duke - I find the article ridiculous - AND spoiled.

Like seriously - besides UCLA's recent run and Ol' Roys Carolina revitalization (which should have been expected) - who else has done a thing?

It's just like the stock market. It's up and down but if you stick with certain things then you are SURE to profit.

Fire Coach K. Yeah right. Don't upset me.

[Edouble]

But for anyone that really *does* think this season was "great" - wouldn't we all be laughing hysterically at our "friends" down 15-501 if they achieved similar results? I recall nearly splitting a side laughing at their very similar 2001 season.

Wow--the seasons mirror each other really well. Great observation. They beat us in Cameron in the first game, then they break apart at the end of the year, losing on four Sundays in a row. To make the comparison perfect, Carolina would have to win the championship. Ugh. Yeah, I had a fine laugh at their expense. They were long out of my mind by the time we got to Monday night.

[SupaDave]

Jumbo has a point. He starts sentences with "but" and "and". He speaks in familiar tones when he is in fact - NOT.

Being "Great" is not a goal. You work hard to achieve your goals and in the accomplishment of them then you can BECOME great. Self-proclaimed greatness is usually left for the NBA and the WWE.

He states: When you're talking about a team with three national championships in 20 years, a team that fails to hang a banner of any sort cannot be considered 'great'.

Really? Not only is the sentence terrible phrased but using this writer's logic we've have had 17 years of mediocrity. This is a statement totally based in lunacy and if the numbers are broken down he would see that he is a fan who has literally been living on Cloud 9.

Fire Coach K? Who was it that got you those National Championships again? And just WHO would be a better coach for this program?

Some of you guys are just ridiculous and it's the moderator's job to help you see the light AND be honest. "Coach K is terrible - he couldn't even recruit Kobe Bryant!" Right.

For example - N.C. State's National Championship team had a GREAT year but they weren't necessarily a GREAT team. Michigan's Fab 5 had a GREAT year and a GREAT team their freshmen year - but they didn't win jack.

Learn to see the forest beyond the trees.

[blazindw]

Yeah, but we're not Eastern Utah University. OK? We're Duke. 28-6 is shocking when you start out 22-1. If we'd started out 8-5, then you're right 28-6 would be great. Duke, under Coach K, used to have a reputation for peaking in March when it mattered the most. That reputation is out the window.

I think the article is right on. The writer is focusing on making 2009 better. If this year was great, as you say, then why would we need to make all of these retoolong adjustments to make next year better anyway?

Respond next year? This was the year we were supposed to respond to losing in the first round of the NCAAs. And the response was to squeak by the first round and get killed in the second round? I appreciate that the writer has the guts to ask the tough questions and point out the obvious, painful truth.


I think you missed my point. Yes, we are not Directional State. Yes, we started out 22-1. Yes, we didn't play as well down the stretch. But a 2nd round exit is not a cause for the panic we've seen from both people on this forum and others. Like I said before, when I was at school, the men's team went to 2 Final Fours, winning in 2001. The women's team also went to 2 Final Fours. And both teams made it at least to the Sweet 16 in each year. I never took that for granted when I was there, and I certainly don't take it for granted now. I feel blessed to have been at Duke when we won in 2001. My roommate still envies me for that day, wishing he had a chance to experience the euphoria of winning a basketball national championship, although still proud of all the team accomplished when he was there.

We always set a goal of winning the national championship. Every team that has even a remote chance of doing well in a season sets that as a goal. Yes, we have other goals along the way (win the Maui tourney, win the ACC, win the National Championship). But, when you fall short, that doesn't mean the season is lost. This isn't an all-or-nothing thing, as far as I'm concerned. Some people on the "entitlement" bandwagon do think that if we don't win the national championship, it's a failure. I don't. I still think we had a heck of a season. A month ago, everyone loved this team..."tough as nails", they said. But, now that our team fell short at the end, they're ready to call this season a wash. I'm sorry, I don't agree with that. As the saying goes, reach for the moon, and even if you fall short, you're still among the stars. Every year, we reach for the moon. We've reached it 3 times. But, for me, landing among the stars is still something. But, if your goal is to reach the moon, every year, you figure out how you ended up where you ended up and you retool to take another shot at the pinnacle next year.

I'm not saying we have issues to work on. But just because we didn't go as far in the tourney as we're used to going doesn't mean that the season now wasn't great. We always have something to improve on after the season. Sure, I didn't like how we ended the season. But nothing is ever promised, guaranteed, or "entitled" to us. It takes a mix of work, preparation, consistency and some luck to win a championship. This year, we didn't have it, and now we must work on improving that to take another shot at winning a NC next season.

It's not the end of the world. Just because we are Duke University doesn't mean that 28-6 seasons are somehow beneath us. Most of us would have loved a 28-6 season last year, so why can't I enjoy it this year?

[davekay1971]

The author's line that he is part of the first or second class or whatever since 1985 to graduate without seeing a final four is they key line in the article and reveals the whole point of the piece. He's whining. That sorry bit of writing is nothing more than a frustrated, petulant fit being pitched by someone who ought to be mature enough to act better.

[Edouble]

He states: When you're talking about a team with three national championships in 20 years, a team that fails to hang a banner of any sort cannot be considered 'great'.

Really? Not only is the sentence terrible phrased but using this writer's logic we've have had 17 years of mediocrity. This is a statement totally based in lunacy and if the numbers are broken down he would see that he is a fan who has literally been living on Cloud 9.

When he says "a banner of any sort" he means just that, ie ACC Championship banner, Final Four banner, or a retired jersey. I have only been to Cameron 3 or 4 times since I graduated almost 10 years ago, so I can't remember if we currently hanging ACC Regular Season Championship banners. We weren't when I was there, but I know the banners have been overhauled. We also used to hang Final #1 ranking banners, but I think those are now in the adjoining hallway.

In any event, there haven't been too many years where we haven't hung some sort of banner in the past twenty years. The past two years we've had nothing to hang. I know that we haven't had two years in a row like that since 95-96, as we won the ACC regular season championships in 1997, and 1998, and then started ripping off ACC Tourney champisonships pretty much every year after that. So two years in a row with no banner of any sort is a rarity around Duke.

[davekay1971]

I hit the writer pretty harshly above, because I'm always disturbed by that type of attitude. I was unbelievably lucky to go to duke from 89-93. In those four years, I got to watch 3 championship games and 2 titles. It was an amazing run, and one that I was aware, at that time, that I was fortunate to watch. It's a damn shame when people stop appreciating great fortune. Making those final fours and winning those titles was a combination of skill, determination, and luck. If Laettner doesn't hit the buzzer beater over UConn, we don't make the final 4 in '90. If Hurley's 3 rims out against UNLV, we don't win it in '91. If Laettner's shot is off against KY, we don't repeat in '92. You get the idea - winning anything is a delicate thing. Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle, and sometimes you don't. Just because Duke won those titles doesn't mean it will EVER happen again. Don't go to the school expecting it.

Students at Duke (and alumns and fans like me) need to keep in mind that there are plenty of other schools with rich basketball traditions who would love to have had Duke's season. NCSU, Kentucky, St. Johns, Syracuse, Indiana.... The students at those schools love basketball as much as we do at Duke, they have a tradition every bit as rich as ours, and they are hoping that their programs can somehow raise themselves to the "disappointing" level that Duke achieved this year.

[rockymtn devil]

He states: When you're talking about a team with three national championships in 20 years, a team that fails to hang a banner of any sort cannot be considered 'great'.

Really? Not only is the sentence terrible phrased but using this writer's logic we've have had 17 years of mediocrity. This is a statement totally based in lunacy and if the numbers are broken down he would see that he is a fan who has literally been living on Cloud 9.

Always interesting when a comment on someone's writing style includes a mistake, especially when that mistake is in the exact word that is critiquing someone's writing style.

More to the point, however, are you suggesting that we live in a zero-sum world where you are either "great" or "mediocre"? The sentence that you cite from the Chronicle column doesn't provide any logic that would lead me to think we've had 17 years of "mediocrity". It's possible to have a good (even very good season) without it being great or mediocre, isn't it? I think Duke had a very good season as a whole with a disappointing March. That is neither great nor mediocre.

[The Gordog]

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/25/Column/This-Year.Was.NotSogreat-3281839.shtml

Misses a few positive points, but overall pretty accurate, honest assessment
What a terrible piece. Poorly written and bratty, but there is a kernal of truth inside although he did not mention it. Here it is:

I think, if I may be so bold as to psychoanalize Coach K, that something has shifted in recent years. I think K is very process oriented, rather than results oriented. The result is more happiness and more sustainable excellence, but perhaps fewer championships. I remember after the 2006 season ended K said he was emotional because he was happy. Happy (!?!) One of the greatest players and most unfairly abused (MD fans insulting his sister, for example) had just been mugged on the court and he was happy. I seem to remenber similar comments at the end of last year. The "great" comment that everyone is saying was so unfairly singled out by the author was not an isolated incident, rather it was part of a pattern.

Coach K is a teacher and in his old age he has dared to question (by his actions) the winner-take-all culture that is a cancer in America. It's kind of jarring when you see/hear it. I have mixed emotions about it, but that's the reality. K is not reading from the same playbook as everybody else in big-time coaching. I for one am fine with that even if I am not as big a man as he is and am still pissed about JJ & Shelden's careers were cut short by thugs and injuries to their supporting cast.

[SupaDave]

Edouble! This is exactly what WE are talking about. Did Duke basketball all of sudden begin in 1984? EVEN UCLA has gone through growth years AND scandals.

Seriously - how many times have you bragged about an ACC banner to your non-ACC friends?

This is a PROGRAM that STRIVES for excellence. Excellence can be measured by wins but it is definitely not deterimined by them.

Let's see here, we got a trophy in Maui, we got an ACC Defensive Player of the year. A Rookie of the year. Discovered a stupendous 6th man who will be all the better for it next year as a starter. And last but not least, an Academic All-American.

Yeah - this team was horrible. This season should be considered a wash. LOL!

[WhiteboardGuy]

The author's line that he is part of the first or second class or whatever since 1985 to graduate without seeing a final four is they key line in the article and reveals the whole point of the piece. He's whining. That sorry bit of writing is nothing more than a frustrated, petulant fit being pitched by someone who ought to be mature enough to act better.

As a member of the Class of 2008, I am disappointed that I did not get to see a men's Final Four during my time as a student here. Am I entitled to see one? No, but when you don't get to experience something that nearly every class for the last 20 years has, you have to see how it is a bit of a let-down. It's not an unreasonable reaction to have.

Additionally, to write off the entire of the column as a "fit" does a disservice to the points he makes about the program's rebounding woes, recruiting strategy and commitment to Team USA. You may not share his outlook on those three areas, but they certainly are well-argued in the piece and are topics worthy of discussion as people look toward to next year.

[SupaDave]

As a member of the Class of 2008, I am disappointed that I did not get to see a men's Final Four during my time as a student here. Am I entitled to see one? No, but when you don't get to experience something that nearly every class for the last 20 years has, you have to see how it is a bit of a let-down. It's not an unreasonable reaction to have.

Additionally, to write off the entire of the column as a "fit" does a disservice to the points he makes about the program's rebounding woes, recruiting strategy and commitment to Team USA. You may not share his outlook on those three areas, but they certainly are well-argued in the piece and are topics worthy of discussion as people look toward to next year.

Really? Do you realize that this is the Coach's SECOND stint with USA basketball.

[WhiteboardGuy]

Really? Do you realize that this is the Coach's SECOND stint with USA basketball.
Yes, but K was an assistant the first time and not running the show. The Duke basketball office and its staff is essentially handling all the administrative grunt work for the Team USA program. Not to mention the Duke assistant coaches are spending a large chunk of time at the national team practice in July when a lot schools do their recruiting. While it's a great opportunity and experience for the program, the fact they are effectively running the Team USA program out of Schwartz-Butters means that resources that otherwise would be focused exclusively on Duke basketball are diverted to the national team.

[Scorp4me]

I think that articles a joke. Our expectations got way out of whack as this season progressed. We were predicted to finish 2nd in the league and we finished 2nd in the league. Out of the tournament a game or two early sure. But that doesn't make it a disappointing season. Sometimes I feel like we need another 95 to shed some of this excess baggage. I'm sorry but I've been much more disappointed in the fans this season than I ever was in the players this year.

[davekay1971]

As a member of the Class of 2008, I am disappointed that I did not get to see a men's Final Four during my time as a student here. Am I entitled to see one? No, but when you don't get to experience something that nearly every class for the last 20 years has, you have to see how it is a bit of a let-down. It's not an unreasonable reaction to have.

Additionally, to write off the entire of the column as a "fit" does a disservice to the points he makes about the program's rebounding woes, recruiting strategy and commitment to Team USA. You may not share his outlook on those three areas, but they certainly are well-argued in the piece and are topics worthy of discussion as people look toward to next year.


I can understand being disappointed. I'm sure when the writer and many of the students applied to Duke, they did so with the hopes of being able to experience a mens hoops national championship. I get that. However, it simply wasn't promised to you, you did nothing to materially help it to happen, and the writer comes across (perhaps unintentionally) as being completely miffed that it didn't happen. That I don't get.

As for the article's "points" on the rebounding woes, recruiting strategy, and commitment to Team USA, a couple of comments. First, the article is nothing better than amateur speculation on the recruiting strategy. Who did the writer talk with about Coach K's recruiting strategy? What are the factual bases for his statements? Did he sit in on recruiting meetings? Go on the recruiting trail with the staff? Even talk with one of the assistants about these things? Talk with a recruit about why he chose someplace else over Duke? No, no, no, and no.

Second, as for Team USA, while there may be the possibility that Coach K's summer commitment takes away from his focus on Duke, there are benefits to his activity. First, the US Americans (go Ms. Teen SC) can actually look forward to an olympic team that (1) plays like a team; (2) acts respectably; (3) plays hard; and (4) might actually win something. All of this is thanks in a large part to Coach K. Second, it's a high profile job. Adding Olympic gold medal coach to his resume may lead to long term benefits on the recruiting trail. Third, as we've already seen, Coach K is learning from great coaches and players in the process.

[SupaDave]

Since when did students start going to school to SEE basketball? SMH!!!

[VaDukie]

Check out today's Gem:

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/28/Columns/R.i-p.Blue.Devils.Basketball.Dominance-3289741.shtml

[Edouble]

Edouble! This is exactly what WE are talking about. Did Duke basketball all of sudden begin in 1984? EVEN UCLA has gone through growth years AND scandals.

Seriously - how many times have you bragged about an ACC banner to your non-ACC friends?

This is a PROGRAM that STRIVES for excellence. Excellence can be measured by wins but it is definitely not deterimined by them.

Let's see here, we got a trophy in Maui, we got an ACC Defensive Player of the year. A Rookie of the year. Discovered a stupendous 6th man who will be all the better for it next year as a starter. And last but not least, an Academic All-American.

Yeah - this team was horrible. This season should be considered a wash. LOL!

I'm not sure which post you are refering to... don't really get the whole 1984 thing. I know I was trying to explain that the writer of the article didn't mean National Championship banner when he simply said "banner", which is how you took it.

Saying the team was horrible is no less accurate than saying that the team was great. I don't think I've heard one person say that the team was horrible. Does anyone think this team was horrible? I don't, so please don't try to put words in my mouth. This was a team that did win the Maui Inv., did have the ACC Defensive POY who went 3-17 in his last two games as a senior, and did have the ACC Rookie of the Year who was dead at the end of the season. What happened? I tend to think everyone was worn out b/c they were all forced to work extra hard to make up for the lack of some decent beef in the middle. That's why I agree with alot of what was in the article. The team didn't play the last third of the season anywhere near to its potential.

[SupaDave]

It's just quite obvious I've been watching Duke basketball longer than most of you. As a Durham native I've seen the team in most ALL of its incarnations. There was a time when UNC had their way us annually and NONE of you would be talking like you guys are now.

I've never seen such a thing actually. With all the programs that come and go I can't believe ANYONE would complain about a 28-6 season.

It's little comments like "losing 5 of their last 12" - that's the stuff that's ridiculous. That's the MEDIA's way of trying to make going 7-5 over a 12 game period SOUND negative.

Winners are gracious in victory AND defeat. Some of you don't deserve to be winners. Coach K would tell you his self.

[davekay1971]

Check out today's Gem:

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/28/Columns/R.i-p.Blue.Devils.Basketball.Dominance-3289741.shtml

I see the Chronicle has the same high-quality writing and editorial staff that I remember from my days on campus. I place the blame on the sports editor for allowing this whining, derogatory crap to publish. This kind of spoiled, unappreciative crying fits very nicely with the national perception of Duke students. K should leave and let Duke enjoy, possibly, our own Doherty-esque transition era.

[Wander]

It's just quite obvious I've been watching Duke basketball longer than most of you. As a Durham native I've seen the team in most ALL of its incarnations. There was a time when UNC had their way us annually and NONE of you would be talking like you guys are now.

I've never seen such a thing actually. With all the programs that come and go I can't believe ANYONE would complain about a 28-6 season.

It's little comments like "losing 5 of their last 12" - that's the stuff that's ridiculous. That's the MEDIA's way of trying to make going 7-5 over a 12 game period SOUND negative.

Winners are gracious in victory AND defeat. Some of you don't deserve to be winners. Coach K would tell you his self.

My god. Take a deep breath and count to ten buddy.

Guess what? Going 7-5 in your last ten games is negative, and it's disappointing for a team that started 20whatever and 1. There's nothing wrong or unreasonable about being disappointed with that. We had a pretty decent season and I really enjoyed watching this team and I like our chances next year, but it wasn't a great season and it wasn't a terrible season. Anybody who thinks we had a great or terrible season is seriously delusional.

Oh, and yeah, the Chronicle article was trash, but what else is new?

[Magnolia888]

What a bunch of immature crybabies.

These guys are a perfect example of the stereotyped Duke students as entitled spoiled brats. I'm embarrassed as a Duke alumna to read this crap.

When did we turn into Kentucky fans?? Sheesh.

I hope these jerkwads aren't representative of current Duke undergrads, because if so, we deserve all the scorn heaped on us as elitist whiny crybabies who expect a final four appearance every year. It just doesn't work that way. (See Kentucky, Florida, UConn, etc.)

ETA:


Guess what? Going 7-5 in your last ten games is negative, and it's disappointing for a team that started 20whatever and 1. There's nothing wrong or unreasonable about being disappointed with that. We had a pretty decent season and I really enjoyed watching this team and I like our chances next year, but it wasn't a great season and it wasn't a terrible season. Anybody who thinks we had a great or terrible season is seriously delusional.

I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with being disappointed. I'm disappointed in how the season ends, and I'm sure that nobody is more disappointed than Coach K, Demarcus, and the rest of the team.

But the tone in these columns goes beyond expressing disappointment all the way to immature, petulant "woe is me" whining about the state of Duke basketball. Coach K doesn't need to hear what he's doing wrong from Duke undergrads. Something tells me he knows more about coaching basketball than they do.

And kicking the individual players when they're down right now is just mean. And unnecessary. I don't think they need to be told that their performance was less than wonderful in their last few games. I'm sure they are harder on themselves than anyone else could be.

[SupaDave]

Most of these folks have no memory of the ACC with Rodney Rogers, Rodney Monroe, Chris Corchiani, Charles Shackleford, Horace Grant, Tim Duncan, Sam Perkins, Len Bias, and Ralph Sampson.

There was a time when Duke basketball was the ultimate underdog.

I got to see quite a few bonfires growing up - but each time I knew it was special...

[VaDukie]

I see the Chronicle has the same high-quality writing and editorial staff that I remember from my days on campus. I place the blame on the sports editor for allowing this whining, derogatory crap to publish. This kind of spoiled, unappreciative crying fits very nicely with the national perception of Duke students. K should leave and let Duke enjoy, possibly, our own Doherty-esque transition era.

Let's not go that far. There are enough of us who see this season for what it was - a very good year with a disappointing but somewhat predictable ending.
We're not all that bad.

And to be fair I found this particular column outrageously poorly written whereas I mostly just disagreed with other columns.

[CDu]

He states: When you're talking about a team with three national championships in 20 years, a team that fails to hang a banner of any sort cannot be considered 'great'.

Really? Not only is the sentence terrible phrased but using this writer's logic we've have had 17 years of mediocrity. This is a statement totally based in lunacy and if the numbers are broken down he would see that he is a fan who has literally been living on Cloud 9.

I'm not going to say that the article is good, but I think you're off-target here. The writer specifically says failing to hang a banner OF ANY SORT cannot be considered great. Well, not including the championship years, we also hung a banner in 1986, 1988, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2005, and 2006 when we won the ACC title. Thus, by the definition defined by the writer, those seasons could be considered great. We went to the Final Four in 1994 and 2004, so we got another banner there. So I don't think the writer was saying we've had 17 years of non-greatness. By the definition of the quote, we'd have had maybe seven years that couldn't be considered in some way great. That seems completely reasonable.

Also, I think you're off target in saying that if you're not great, then you must be mediocre. There is a lot of room between greatness and mediocrity in my book. There are plenty of good teams that are neither great more mediocre, but somewhere in between. For example, last year's team was not mediocre- just good. Same for 1997. I'd argue that this year was a good team, not a great team, and definitely not a mediocre team. The 1995 team was a mediocre/bad team. The 1996 team was a mediocre team.

[Mike Corey]

I see the Chronicle has the same high-quality writing and editorial staff that I remember from my days on campus. I place the blame on the sports editor for allowing this whining, derogatory crap to publish. This kind of spoiled, unappreciative crying fits very nicely with the national perception of Duke students. K should leave and let Duke enjoy, possibly, our own Doherty-esque transition era.

To be fair to the sports editor...the column in question--the most recent one, that is--was not penned by a sports columnist, and therefore was not under the jurisdiction of the sports editor...and it is possible (likely?) that the sports editor did not even see that column until the paper was published this morning.

And further, the sports editor has already sent a letter of apology regarding that specific column--the most recent one--to the coaching staff and the men's basketball team.

[77devil]

Most of these folks have no memory of the ACC with Rodney Rogers, Rodney Monroe, Chris Corchiani, Charles Shackleford, Horace Grant, Tim Duncan, Sam Perkins, Len Bias, and Ralph Sampson.

There was a time when Duke basketball was the ultimate underdog.

I got to see quite a few bonfires growing up - but each time I knew it was special...

Frankly, you need to go farther back into history, i.e. mid 70's to appreciate when Duke basketball was usually the underdog(ultimate is an exaggeration).

[rockymtn devil]

It's just quite obvious I've been watching Duke basketball longer than most of you. As a Durham native I've seen the team in most ALL of its incarnations. There was a time when UNC had their way us annually and NONE of you would be talking like you guys are now.

I've never seen such a thing actually. With all the programs that come and go I can't believe ANYONE would complain about a 28-6 season.

It's little comments like "losing 5 of their last 12" - that's the stuff that's ridiculous. That's the MEDIA's way of trying to make going 7-5 over a 12 game period SOUND negative.

Winners are gracious in victory AND defeat. Some of you don't deserve to be winners. Coach K would tell you his self.

Question for the Mods: is this the type of post that would qualify for a) lack or civility or b) repetitive rant?

"Some of you don't deserve to be winners. Coach K would tell you his self" How civil is that? Putting aside the fact that it attempts to speak for Coach K, the poster (who, apparently is a mod?) is attacking fellow posters for stating an opinion (and no, this is not "negativity" being stifled; it's just uncivil posting).

The poster has also had several logical responses that he/she fails to address and instead just posts the same stuff over and over again (example:several posts have pointed out that "not great" does not equal "mediocre" and yet SupaDave glides right over those points). Is this not repetitive?

Sorry if this belongs in another thread, I think this could be helpful in clearing up some of the confusion about what the guidelines mean (much like the Boston Dukie post from a few days back).

[CDu]

Question for the Mods: is this the type of post that would qualify for a) lack or civility or b) repetitive rant?

"Some of you don't deserve to be winners. Coach K would tell you his self" How civil is that? Putting aside the fact that it attempts to speak for Coach K, the poster (who, apparently is a mod?) is attacking fellow posters for stating an opinion (and no, this is not "negativity" being stifled; it's just uncivil posting).

The poster has also had several logical responses that he/she fails to address and instead just posts the same stuff over and over again (example:several posts have pointed out that "not great" does not equal "mediocre" and yet SupaDave glides right over those points). Is this not repetitive?

Sorry if this belongs in another thread, I think this could be helpful in clearing up some of the confusion about what the guidelines mean (much like the Boston Dukie post from a few days back).

I had the same reaction to that post by SupaDave. Far be it for me to to judge, but it seemed to be completely against the type of environment DBR has been promoting. It came across as very condescending and insulting.

[wisteria]

I just got the chance to read the newest Chronicle column on the basketball team. As someone has said, you can't blame the Sports editor for this piece.

While the Yaffe piece may have a bit more bitterness than necessary, this new piece is basically a rant. Without any constructive remarks, the guy simply ripped his fellow schoolmates apart. He may have attempted to make it sound funny, but the sheer meanness of his words couldn't be disguised at all.

There's difference between criticism and bashing. I'm deeply disappointed in these so called "columnists" of the Chronicle.

[mr. synellinden]

Check out today's Gem:

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/28/Columns/R.i-p.Blue.Devils.Basketball.Dominance-3289741.shtml

Oh my god. That's horrible. I'd really like to know how the editors of the Chronicle let that be published. In what other subject area would a student writer be able to state how often he called another student a "piece of dog poop."

Remember how K reacted to the midseason grades article? I wonder how he will feel about this.

This is atrocious, particulary the criticism of Z.

... still shaking my head.

[appzter]

A letter to the editorial board is in order. Look for it on Monday .. I hope!

[Kdogg]

Check out today's Gem:

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/28/Columns/R.i-p.Blue.Devils.Basketball.Dominance-3289741.shtml

It is one thing to be disappointed but this is asinine. The sense of entitlement from the Chronicle (and some fans) is unreal. Coach K, Nelson, and the team do not owe you a thing. The only thing any Duke student is entitled to is a great education. I'm not an "old timer" but I can remember some tough stretches as a Duke fan. It seems these writers know about the Final Fours and National Championships but don't know about the eight game losing streak to UNC or the nine game streak to Wake. They may know about the ACC titles but have no idea about the crushing (to me) losses to Louisville and UNLV. They have bought into the hype without living through what built it.

[Wander]

But the tone in these columns goes beyond expressing disappointment all the way to immature, petulant "woe is me" whining about the state of Duke basketball.

Oh I completely agree, I'm not defending the article. I just have so little expectations from The Chronicle (other than Fanaroff, when he was around) that I've become numb to when they print crap like this.

[jipops]

Both of these articles are incredibly embarrassing literary garbage. If this is the "journalism" that represents Duke University then I am truly ashamed.

"Duke students don't sleep in the cold for two months just to see players give it their all"

What more can you possibly expect then!!??? These guys are kids. K is trying to run a COLLEGE program and help mold young men. If you want a program that only cares about bringing in hired mercenaries to come in and only play basketball, win games, and use it as only a stepping stone to a pro career then go to another school and pull for another program. You wouldn't even have to go very far, maybe 8 miles.

I hate it like hell that we bowed out early for the 2nd year in a row but the over-reaction is just absolutely ridiculous. I'm incredibly proud of what the Duke program is about. Winning 28 games with the kind of pressures these kids face will ALWAYS be a GREAT season.

Obviously these kids never experienced 1982 Duke Basketball

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

The Chronicle has carried more articles about the basketball team in recent days.

"Fire Coach K." http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/27/Columns/Fire-Coach.K-3287024.shtml

A recent letter to the editor came from an alumna in the Class of 2005. She blames Alumni affairs for not helping young alums get tickets to the regionals in D.C. http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/27/Columns/Fire-Coach.K-3287024.shtml

Jack Winters, Director of the Iron Dukes, responded. http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/28/Letters/Alumni.Affairs.Has.Done.Nobody.Wrong-3289745.shtml

The online responses are as interesting and revealing as the as the articles or letter which sparked the comments.

[Jumbo]

Question for the Mods: is this the type of post that would qualify for a) lack or civility or b) repetitive rant?

"Some of you don't deserve to be winners. Coach K would tell you his self" How civil is that? Putting aside the fact that it attempts to speak for Coach K, the poster (who, apparently is a mod?) is attacking fellow posters for stating an opinion (and no, this is not "negativity" being stifled; it's just uncivil posting).

The poster has also had several logical responses that he/she fails to address and instead just posts the same stuff over and over again (example:several posts have pointed out that "not great" does not equal "mediocre" and yet SupaDave glides right over those points). Is this not repetitive?

Sorry if this belongs in another thread, I think this could be helpful in clearing up some of the confusion about what the guidelines mean (much like the Boston Dukie post from a few days back).

Please report posts by hitting the icon that looks like a caution signal. Thanks.

[calltheobvious]

Most of these folks have no memory of the ACC with Rodney Rogers, Rodney Monroe, Chris Corchiani, Charles Shackleford, Horace Grant, Tim Duncan, Sam Perkins, Len Bias, and Ralph Sampson.

There was a time when Duke basketball was the ultimate underdog.

I got to see quite a few bonfires growing up - but each time I knew it was special...

There are exactly two out of those nine players who played during a stretch in which Duke was even close to a consistent, much less an "ultimate" underdog.

Either you never actually met Bill Werber, or he really, really overserved you.

[blazindw]

The Chronicle has carried more articles about the basketball team in recent days.

"Fire Coach K." http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/27/Columns/Fire-Coach.K-3287024.shtml

A recent letter to the editor came from an alumna in the Class of 2005. She blames Alumni affairs for not helping young alums get tickets to the regionals in D.C. http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/27/Columns/Fire-Coach.K-3287024.shtml

Jack Winters, Director of the Iron Dukes, responded. http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/28/Letters/Alumni.Affairs.Has.Done.Nobody.Wrong-3289745.shtml

The online responses are as interesting and revealing as the as the articles or letter which sparked the comments.

I know the girl that wrote this letter to the editor (she in fact sent it to me before she submitted it to the Chronicle). I think she has a great point. I was able to make it to both games, and the tickets I had for Thursday were bought from an Iron Duke. On Craigslist. Why an Iron Duke was selling his/her tickets on Craigslist when there are plenty of ways to ensure that those tickets get into the hands of Duke fans (like the Ticket Exchange board) is beyond me. Now, I was lucky to get my tickets for Thursday and Saturday for face value, and I was able to resell a lot of tickets to Duke fans for face value and take my parents and roommate on Saturday. However, I think the point is that Duke fans who aren't Iron Dukes that pay a bunch of money don't even get a chance to ask if tickets are available.

Not every Duke alum can afford the membership to the Iron Dukes, much less pay enough money to get to a point where they have great shots at tickets. They also can't use that money to purchase tickets from scalpers for 5-6 times face value off Craigslist, eBay or any of the other online ticket brokers. ironically, the people who could afford to pay top dollar for tickets were the ones that ended up getting them for face value through the lottery, but I digress. I was lucky to get tickets for face value. I was even luckier to be in the position where I had more tickets than I needed, and I sold those for face value to Duke fans. Others weren't so lucky, and that's the reason why people like her are upset (disclosure: she attended both games).

Also, for those who weren't outside before the games witnessing, there were tons of scalpers selling tickets. But, I counted about 10 people that were arrested either for scalping or for selling counterfeit tickets. I also saw about 4 people who were sold fake tickets and then were denied entry because the tickets were fake. I think it's a bit much to ask Duke alums who aren't Iron Dukes to have to subject themselves to shady dealings with scalpers on a regular basis just to see their team play. Just my $.02.

[SupaDave]

Ok! I've taken my medicine now. Forgive me for my rants. :)

The team showed tremendous growth this year. Let's not lose sight of that.

It was a fun year.

[RelativeWays]

That piece on Zoub is pretty terrible. Its true he has areas he needs to improve on, mainly being more aggressive on putbacks and rebounds, but he's a pretty small component of the teams late season struggles. Finger pointing, particularly by the student body (supposedly the most "loyal" fans right?) is a pretty crappy thing to do. Every Duke fan has a right to be disappointed with the end of this season, I am. However, lets not lose sight that they improved a great deal from last season.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I know the girl that wrote this letter to the editor (she in fact sent it to me before she submitted it to the Chronicle). I think she has a great point. I was able to make it to both games, and the tickets I had for Thursday were bought from an Iron Duke. On Craigslist. Why an Iron Duke was selling his/her tickets on Craigslist when there are plenty of ways to ensure that those tickets get into the hands of Duke fans (like the Ticket Exchange board) is beyond me. Now, I was lucky to get my tickets for Thursday and Saturday for face value, and I was able to resell a lot of tickets to Duke fans for face value and take my parents and roommate on Saturday. However, I think the point is that Duke fans who aren't Iron Dukes that pay a bunch of money don't even get a chance to ask if tickets are available.

Not every Duke alum can afford the membership to the Iron Dukes, much less pay enough money to get to a point where they have great shots at tickets. They also can't use that money to purchase tickets from scalpers for 5-6 times face value off Craigslist, eBay or any of the other online ticket brokers. ironically, the people who could afford to pay top dollar for tickets were the ones that ended up getting them for face value through the lottery, but I digress. I was lucky to get tickets for face value. I was even luckier to be in the position where I had more tickets than I needed, and I sold those for face value to Duke fans. Others weren't so lucky, and that's the reason why people like her are upset (disclosure: she attended both games).

Also, for those who weren't outside before the games witnessing, there were tons of scalpers selling tickets. But, I counted about 10 people that were arrested either for scalping or for selling counterfeit tickets. I also saw about 4 people who were sold fake tickets and then were denied entry because the tickets were fake. I think it's a bit much to ask Duke alums who aren't Iron Dukes to have to subject themselves to shady dealings with scalpers on a regular basis just to see their team play. Just my $.02.

I understand the frustration you're describing, but I don't think it's realistic to think that Alumni Affairs is in a position to do much about the problem of getting tickets. The response from Jack Winters gave a concise description of how the NCAA allots tickets for the regionals and how the Duke Department of Athletics disburses them.

As for the the Iron Duke who sold his/her tickets on Craigslist, selling tickets that way could be viewed as a violation of the Iron Duke's policy regarding use of tickets. Had it been reported, that person may not be able to get such tickets in the future.

The primary reason for mentioning those articles and letters in the Chronicle is that I think they are examples of unrealistic notions about the basketball program.