golf and "working" your irons

[kexman]

Since I can't worry about Duke this year, I turn my attention to Golf. I was reading about the difference between game improvement irons and players irons. The players irons let you "work" the ball more (ie. fade, draw, etc). I would be happy if my shots just went straight, but that is a different thread. I understand the benefits of being able to hit a fade or a draw, control spin, or have a different trajectory into different greens or pin placements, but I wondered how much it mattered? My questions:

1) At what point in your golf game would you want to work on "working" the ball? Single digit handicap, scratch golfer, an elite college level golfer...

2) If I made a PGA pro play with only one type of shot for the whole round, how much would it change their score for the 4 day tournament? They obviously learn these shots for a reason, but I was curious how important it was for them to be able to hit these shots.

3) Is "working" the ball important mainly for the very difficult PGA set-ups or would it be valuable on your typical saturday at a nice course?


My mid-handicap will keep working on hitting the ball straight, but i was just curious at what level people start needing to work the ball. I'm guessing at a higher level than I will ever achieve...although i keep dreaming of winning the lottery and practing for the senior tour in 20 years!!!

[Channing]

I started focusing on learning how to work the ball once I hit about a 10 handicap. I dont do it often, but there are times when it can really be useful. What I have found is that working the ball is really useful when your goal is to hit it w/i 10 feet of the pin. For most golfers, just hitting the green in regulation is an accomplishment in and of itself, and working your irons generally isnt required in that situation.

The other time working your irons is very useful is if you are playing with a breeze strong enough to knock your ball offline. I find that if I play a cut into a right-to-left wind I am able to hit more accurate shots than if I were to guess how far left I need to aim in order to let my ball "float" back to where I want it to be.

I would say for most pro-golfers, over the course of a 4 day tournament, if they could only hit the ball straight, and not work it in, are looking at maybe 5 or 6 more strokes. The reason being that often times if a pin is tucked into the back right of a green, they will hit a cut (for a rh golfer) so that even if they come up short, they are in the middle of the green. If they try and go right at the pin, and they come up short, they could have a tricky little lie out of a green side bunker.

If you want to move beyond mere iron play, working the ball with the driver is also extremely important the better you score. There can be a huge difference b/w being on the right side of the fairway or the left, depending on the way the hole is cut. If you can start the ball down the left side, and let it fade to the middle/ right side, you can really help yourself out, especially on a dogleft left.

I dont think it is ever really "too" early to learn how to work the ball. At its most basic it is pretty simple: A stronger grip (i.e. when you set up, if you are righty, you turn your right hand over so that you see more of the top of your hand) will favor a draw and a weeker grip (i.e. when you set up you would see more of your palm) tends to favor a fade. If you have impediments in your way this can be a great way to take a full hack without having to lay up (and impress your friends at the same time).

Bottom Line: Working the ball allows player to play more aggressively, because they can shape their shot so that if they mess up they are still on the green or in the fairway, even if not the ideal position (it certainly beats being in a bunker or in the rough if you have to play directly at where you want to lay up)

As an aside, for any golfer who wants to get better - I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Five-Lessons-Modern-Fundamentals-Golf/dp/0671612972.
I read it about once a year, and actually take it to the range with me to work on some of the thing Hogan talks about.

[hughgs]

Since I can't worry about Duke this year, I turn my attention to Golf. I was reading about the difference between game improvement irons and players irons. The players irons let you "work" the ball more (ie. fade, draw, etc). I would be happy if my shots just went straight, but that is a different thread. I understand the benefits of being able to hit a fade or a draw, control spin, or have a different trajectory into different greens or pin placements, but I wondered how much it mattered? My questions:

1) At what point in your golf game would you want to work on "working" the ball? Single digit handicap, scratch golfer, an elite college level golfer...

2) If I made a PGA pro play with only one type of shot for the whole round, how much would it change their score for the 4 day tournament? They obviously learn these shots for a reason, but I was curious how important it was for them to be able to hit these shots.

3) Is "working" the ball important mainly for the very difficult PGA set-ups or would it be valuable on your typical saturday at a nice course?


My mid-handicap will keep working on hitting the ball straight, but i was just curious at what level people start needing to work the ball. I'm guessing at a higher level than I will ever achieve...although i keep dreaming of winning the lottery and practing for the senior tour in 20 years!!!

As someone from outside the sport, who enjoys watching athletic competition (even golf!) I always thought the reason that players learned to work the ball is because players realized that even when they tried to hit a straight shot, sometimes the shot was errant. So, rather than hit a bad shot and then have to maybe hit two straight shots to get you out of trouble you could hit one "working" shot to get you out of trouble.

[Channing]

As someone from outside the sport, who enjoys watching athletic competition (even golf!) I always thought the reason that players learned to work the ball is because players realized that even when they tried to hit a straight shot, sometimes the shot was errant. So, rather than hit a bad shot and then have to maybe hit two straight shots to get you out of trouble you could hit one "working" shot to get you out of trouble.

a lot of players hit the working shot to get out of trouble - think a low sweeping hook to get out of the woods and down the fairway. However, the truly exceptional golfers start working the ball from the time they get to the tee in order to be in the best position not to get in trouble in the first place.

[colchar]

1) At what point in your golf game would you want to work on "working" the ball? Single digit handicap, scratch golfer, an elite college level golfer...


I think that should be important to a low handicapper. But it could also come into play for someone with a slightly higher handicap depending on the particular situation (slightly blocked approach to the green, etc.).



2) If I made a PGA pro play with only one type of shot for the whole round, how much would it change their score for the 4 day tournament? They obviously learn these shots for a reason, but I was curious how important it was for them to be able to hit these shots.


Fairly important but it is situational.



3) Is "working" the ball important mainly for the very difficult PGA set-ups or would it be valuable on your typical saturday at a nice course?


Again, this is situational.

[killerleft]

I think that for anyone who can't approach "scratch" golf, it is more important to use the natural shape of your most repeatable shot. I have a very strong grip, so a natural fade is something I can repeat more easily. In the not-too distant past, my handicap reached just below 6. I was usually more successful in working within my limitations. Although I could draw the ball on occasion, I only tried when my fade would leave me in a really bad spot.

If you can't put a lot of time into practicing, then spend a lot of that time chipping and putting with a purpose. There is no substitute for the average golfer that can save as many strokes as good play around and on the green.

[Clipsfan]

If you can't put a lot of time into practicing, then spend a lot of that time chipping and putting with a purpose. There is no substitute for the average golfer that can save as many strokes as good play around and on the green.

Excellent advice. I'm too lazy to follow it, but the real place to start shaving off strokes is around the green. Also, in answer to your original question, the response about reducing risk is the correct one as working the ball allows you to take the less risky flight path to the target. If your goal is merely to hit the green, then working the ball isn't all that important. If you are trying to birdie every hole you'll want a bigger arsenal of shots. Even so, if you don't make the putts you won't shoot low scores, and you'll still need to save the pars with ups and downs. Short game is key.

[killerleft]

Just chipping enough to get a feel for how much "pop" it takes to get the ball to the spot I've picked to land it can really help. Golf can be complicated enough without having to guess at something that should be easier than a full swing or a pitch.

[Channing]

Just chipping enough to get a feel for how much "pop" it takes to get the ball to the spot I've picked to land it can really help. Golf can be complicated enough without having to guess at something that should be easier than a full swing or a pitch.

When I first started playing golf, maybe my third golf lesson, I learned a method that has kept me in good stead throughout my golfing days. Some others might have heard this method.

Step 1: count the number of yards from your ball to one yard onto the green.
Step 2: count the number of yards from one yard onto the green.
Step 3: divide the second number by the first.

If the number is 5/6, use a SW
If the number is 7/8, use a PW
If the number is 9/10, use a 9i
If the number is 11-13 use an 8i.

The goal is to take the club, and bump the ball so that it lands one yard onto the green and let it release out the rest of the way. Keeping your wrists stiff is imporant.

[elvis14]

I think that for anyone who can't approach "scratch" golf, it is more important to use the natural shape of your most repeatable shot. I have a very strong grip, so a natural fade is something I can repeat more easily. In the not-too distant past, my handicap reached just below 6. I was usually more successful in working within my limitations. Although I could draw the ball on occasion, I only tried when my fade would leave me in a really bad spot.

If you can't put a lot of time into practicing, then spend a lot of that time chipping and putting with a purpose. There is no substitute for the average golfer that can save as many strokes as good play around and on the green.

I pretty much agree with everything killerleft said. I'm a terrible golfer and what I want is repeatability and to try to hit the green in regulation. My next set of irons will be game improvement irons (like the Mizuno MX-950). I have two friends that shoot in the mid-80's. Both of them have bought irons recently and both of them bought game improvement irons (Mizuno MX-900 and Taylor Made R7 CGB Max). I'll worry about working the ball when my concern goes from hitting the green to hitting the green and getting close to the pin. Of course, if I need to hit a fade/slice on purpose all I have to do is try to kill it and swing hard; that count's as workin' it, right? :D

BTW, those two mid-80's golfers that beat the pants off me every time we play, they pickup most of their strokes around the green with superior chipping. I often out drive them!

[killerleft]

Regarding "forgiving" irons: What set(s), if any, still allow you to "feel" the ball like all blades used to? I noticed some improvement with my last set, but really miss the feedback that blades give you. Are there some clubs out there that have the perimeter weighting and other advantages of forgiving irons that still allow you to feel that sweet shot, or to tell you when the contact is not the best or off-center?

[Channing]

Regarding "forgiving" irons: What set(s), if any, still allow you to "feel" the ball like all blades used to? I noticed some improvement with my last set, but really miss the feedback that blades give you. Are there some clubs out there that have the perimeter weighting and other advantages of forgiving irons that still allow you to feel that sweet shot, or to tell you when the contact is not the best or off-center?

roughly what are you shooting? Are you looking for an oversize iron that still has feel or are you looking for more of a players iron that might be a little more forgiving? The Mizuno MX25 is a good oversize iron that is still forged and allows for a lot of feel. The Mizuno MP60 are a blade-type iron that are a little more forgiving. The Titleist 755 are also a midsize iron, good feel, and maybe even a little more forgiving than the Mizuno MP60. The Callaway X-forged are also great midsize irons that provide feel and a little more forgiveness, but they are only useful if you have a fast (i.e. 113+ with the driver) swing speed.

[killerleft]

roughly what are you shooting? Are you looking for an oversize iron that still has feel or are you looking for more of a players iron that might be a little more forgiving? The Mizuno MX25 is a good oversize iron that is still forged and allows for a lot of feel. The Mizuno MP60 are a blade-type iron that are a little more forgiving. The Titleist 755 are also a midsize iron, good feel, and maybe even a little more forgiving than the Mizuno MP60. The Callaway X-forged are also great midsize irons that provide feel and a little more forgiveness, but they are only useful if you have a fast (i.e. 113+ with the driver) swing speed.

I am now practicing for a return to golf. I've played maybe 20 rounds in the last five years. I manage to eke out something under 90 most rounds, but with practice I think I'll be able to lower that considerably. I'm 55, so the swing speed is surely gonna stay under 100 if I want to save my back. I don't require an oversized iron since there was no such thing when I was learning. Probably will use 5-iron and above with two wedges and a couple of trouble clubs.

[Channing]

I am now practicing for a return to golf. I've played maybe 20 rounds in the last five years. I manage to eke out something under 90 most rounds, but with practice I think I'll be able to lower that considerably. I'm 55, so the swing speed is surely gonna stay under 100 if I want to save my back. I don't require an oversized iron since there was no such thing when I was learning. Probably will use 5-iron and above with two wedges and a couple of trouble clubs.

In that case I would def recommend the mizunos. The Titleists are good clubs, but the irons tend to be a litte heavier. The MP60 will give you a standard blade type view when you set up, but it has a cut muscle to allow for a little more perimeter weighting.

I would suggest going to the local golf store, picking out a few that feel and look good and seeing if you can take them to the range.