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bhop22
03-20-2008, 10:54 PM
I forgot that Huggins was with WVU. I knew Beeline took over for Amaker. I think that after tonight Duke will be ready for WVU. Remember in 95 when Edney drove coast to coast to beat Missouri? on their way to a title. I'm not saying Duke will do this, but a 6 game win streak isn't out of the question is it?

speedevil
03-20-2008, 10:56 PM
its payback time huggy!

dukemsu
03-20-2008, 11:07 PM
Turn them over and score easy baskets in transition.

Have some fun doing it.

Take good 3 point shots-not just any 3 point shots.

LGD.

dukemsu

kydevil
03-20-2008, 11:09 PM
Play 100 times better than we did tonight, and then pray for a miracle :D

Seriously though we gotta play a little bit of "d". WVU looked good down the stretch vs UofA

Channing
03-20-2008, 11:12 PM
I think the most critical matchup will be Singler v. Alexander (I assume that is who Singler will be guarding). Alexander really went off in the B-East tourney and is a true star player.

Law Talking Guy
03-20-2008, 11:16 PM
Perimeter defense, stick a guy on Alexander at all times, take and make good shots, and don't forget about Da'Sean Butler.

There was little to no driving by WVU in the game tonight, and Butler did most of what did occur. Arizona got looks, they just didn't capitalize. And Alexander can be turned over if you push him out of the paint.

Richard Berg
03-20-2008, 11:25 PM
I think we match up well with WVU. Singler has played decent D even in the games where he struggled...just needs to not commit stupid fouls. Markie needs some flu medicine; G needs to be put into cryogenic suspension immediately after his postgame shower.

Troublemaker
03-20-2008, 11:29 PM
Duke has to hit its free throws. We did okay in that area tonight but we'll need to shoot them even better on Saturday (and obviously tonight we needed every last one just to win). The reason is WVU is an aggressive defense and they'll put us on the line. Tonight, Arizona had 21 free throw attempts to WVU's 9, and for the season, WVU is near the bottom third of the country as far as opponent free throw rate.

I have a feeling this is going to be a defensive slugfest. WVU isn't as quick as Belmont 1 through 5, but they're longer and they're athletic vertically, i.e. very good leapers, and they'll cause problems in their own way. I don't think we're going to be able to shoot well against that combination of length, leaping ability, and aggressiveness and I just hope we get fouled a lot and make our free throws and WVU doesn't end up with 10 blocked shots. I can also see WVU giving us problems on the offensive boards with that combination.

I think we'll guard WVU pretty well on the initial shot because I don't think they'll be beating us off the dribble consistently, but who knows. I didn't think Belmont would play us to the wire, either. We have to chase and get a hand in the face on jumpshots and I think we can do that. Hopefully we'll grab the rebound when they miss. This game just has the feel of one of those ugly offensive games where both teams shoot about 40% and we lose at the end by giving up a key offensive rebound and putback. If we hit our free throws, hopefully that putback will merely cut into a lead we have. If we don't hit our free throws, that putback will win WVU the game or extend THEIR lead.

Jumbo
03-20-2008, 11:29 PM
Step 1: Figure out who used to start the threads back in 2001. I don't think I did it, and I'm glad this one started before I could post another one.
Step 2: Get that person to start these threads moving forward!
I'll have some real analysis after I get a chance to mull over the matchup.

prefan21
03-20-2008, 11:31 PM
Here's what I've gathered from Ken Pomeroy's site.

He ranks them at #22 overall, with the #26 offense and #28 defense. (In contrast, Duke's O is 7 and D is 10.)

They play a slow tempo, and are one of the best in the country at avoiding turnovers. They aren't a great 3-ball team, nor free throws. However, they are fairly good at rebounding and great at blocking shots.

Their record is hard to break down. Only 4 of their wins came against teams in the top 75: Marquette (home), Syracuse (home), Pitt (home), and UConn (neutral).

They have 10 losses: Tenn (neutral), Oklahoma (semi-home), Notre Dame (away), Louisville (away), Gtown (home), Cincy (home), Pitt (away), Villanova (away), UConn (away), and Gtown (neutral).

In all, it looks like a team Duke can beat if they bring a stronger game.

gep
03-20-2008, 11:34 PM
I hope the "monkey" from last year's VCU first round loss is now "off their backs", and then :) can get back to playing Duke basketball... with some fun included

mehmattski
03-20-2008, 11:39 PM
I think that the play of Gerald Henderson tonight will do wonders for Saturdays' game. Not only is G proving he can play at a high level despite the injury, he's forcing teams to come up with ways to stop him. WVU will look to stop Henderson from penetrating into the lane.

This plays right into Duke's wheelhouse. Teams for the last two weeks have been able to cheat on defense by pressuring the 3 pointer, forcing Duke to take contested 3s. Duke's strength is in the dribble-drive, kick, open 3 sequence, which is most effective when the defense actually believes that a dribble-driver is a threat.

Gerald Henderson is now that threat, and I envision the WVU defense collapsing on G in the lane as he kicks out to Paulus and Scheyer for a rain of 3s.

Supporting evidence: WVU is 205th in the nation in 3pt defense, allowing 35.6% from beyond the arc... worse than Belmont's 34.8 percent (150th in the nation).

On the other hand, if we play defense like we did against Belmont, we're not going to beat anyone...

gep
03-20-2008, 11:46 PM
One other thought... us FANS have got to focus on WVa... just like the team has to focus on WVa. And, ONLY WVa. Nevermind worrying about any other team in the tournament. :cool:

WeepingThomasHill
03-21-2008, 12:10 AM
We need Nelson to bring it Saturday, not mail it in again. We need Zoubek to play like someone 7'1, not 5'11. We need contributions from everyone. We can't expect Scheyer and Henderson to carry the team on both ends, which they did tonight. We need to run our attack and dish offense, and not revert back into a 3 point chuck and duck after dribbling around for 28 seconds.

And I would love to see some fire from this team. We almost looked like it was a chore to be playing, in contrast to the excitement of the Belmont players and staff. Dawkins, Collins and Wojo looked like they were going to a funeral.

We'll come out hard on Saturday and get a great win. At least that is what I keep telling myself.

Law Talking Guy
03-21-2008, 12:22 AM
One other thought... us FANS have got to focus on WVa... just like the team has to focus on WVa. And, ONLY WVa. Nevermind worrying about any other team in the tournament. :cool:

Agreed, and I hope that some folks who will be at Verizon on Saturday will read this. There will be a whole hell of a lot of WVA fans there for our game (as there were tonight), and we need to at least try to match them in intensity and enthusiasm

feldspar
03-21-2008, 12:25 AM
Play DUKE BASKETBALL. It's as easy as that.

Or so you would think.

Jumbo
03-21-2008, 12:38 AM
Play DUKE BASKETBALL. It's as easy as that.

Or so you would think.

Looks like we (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=121565&postcount=1)are both (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=122297#post122297)guilty of that.

feldspar
03-21-2008, 12:40 AM
Looks like we (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=121565&postcount=1)are both (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=122297#post122297)guilty of that.

Guilty of what

Jumbo
03-21-2008, 12:42 AM
Guilty of what

Assuming that such a thing as "Duke basketball" either exists or is sufficient enough of an explanation of how to win.

socaldukie
03-21-2008, 12:50 AM
I think we need to be more aggressive driving to the basket vs WVU.

A positive to take from tonight is we have different players stepping up. So, perhaps now it is time for Markie and Kyle to do their damage. Afterall. that was a strength (multiple options) earlier in the season. If anything, tonight showed we have many offecsive options to beat you.

Hard to imagine now, but my gut says we win by 9 saturday.

feldspar
03-21-2008, 01:04 AM
Assuming that such a thing as "Duke basketball" either exists or is sufficient enough of an explanation of how to win.

That's not what I was saying.

I think it would be prudent of us all to avoid assuming we know what the other person is saying and then posting based on that assumption. We would all do well to take a step back and take a person's words at face value and seek clarification first.

-jk
03-21-2008, 01:13 AM
That's not what I was saying.

I think it would be prudent of us all to avoid assuming we know what the other person is saying and then posting based on that assumption. We would all do well to take a step back and take a person's words at face value and seek clarification first.

OK, I'll bite. Jumbo linked to his post, where he said "Play Duke Basketball. Period."

He linked to your post, where you said "I've seen such unbelievable lackluster defense over the last month, and it's just not Duke basketball....I'm looking forward to the time when I see that team back on the floor."

Sounds like you two are about on the same page to me.

And now back to our regularly scheduled thread.

-jk

feldspar
03-21-2008, 01:15 AM
OK, I'll bite. Jumbo linked to his post, where he said "Play Duke Basketball. Period."

He linked to your post, where you said "I've seen such unbelievable lackluster defense over the last month, and it's just not Duke basketball....I'm looking forward to the time when I see that team back on the floor."

Sounds like you two are about on the same page to me.

And now back to our regularly scheduled thread.

-jk

I wasn't assuming that "Play Duke Basketball" is something that may or may not exist, as Jumbo said.

It does exists. And this team hasn't been playing it lately.

That's what I was saying. So, no, Jumbo and I apparently aren't on the same page.

And, so, my point about drawing our own conclusions about other people's posts continues.

throatybeard
03-21-2008, 01:19 AM
The How we beat X author posted under the handle TMC.

mph
03-21-2008, 01:23 AM
They play a slow tempo, and are one of the best in the country at avoiding turnovers. They aren't a great 3-ball team, nor free throws. However, they are fairly good at rebounding and great at blocking shots.

Their record is hard to break down. Only 4 of their wins came against teams in the top 75: Marquette (home), Syracuse (home), Pitt (home), and UConn (neutral).

They have 10 losses: Tenn (neutral), Oklahoma (semi-home), Notre Dame (away), Louisville (away), Gtown (home), Cincy (home), Pitt (away), Villanova (away), UConn (away), and Gtown (neutral).

In all, it looks like a team Duke can beat if they bring a stronger game.

Thanks for the work on WVU' season stats.

There aren't any cupcakes on the list of teams who've beat WVU. I don't know what it looked like on TV, but from within the Verizon Center WVU looked like a team that moved the ball well on offense and had a number of players capable of hitting open jumpers.

I haven't had a chance to look at WVU's season stats, so I'll take your word for it on WVU's 3 point shooting. However, tonight WVU looked like a team with at least 3 guys who could make open 3's.

I think our chances Sat. begin and end with defense. I'm not sure we have anyone who can stop Alexander if he plays like he has the past 7 games, but Singler could make him work hard for his points. If we disrupt the passing lanes and defend the three well, I like our chances.

P.S. Did anyone else in the Verizon Center find the cadence of the "Let's go, Mountaineers" cheer annoying? Also, they need to get a new guy to play the Mountaineer. During timeouts the current mascot just aimlessly wandered around the court clapping and occasionally thrusting his rifle in the air. Plus, I'm pretty sure I saw that guy selling knives on the Smokey Mountain Knifeworks show.

dukemomLA
03-21-2008, 01:58 AM
SHOW UP!! Play D and have fun! That's all folks.

Lavabe
03-21-2008, 05:30 AM
P.S. Did anyone else in the Verizon Center find the cadence of the "Let's go, Mountaineers" cheer annoying? Also, they need to get a new guy to play the Mountaineer. During timeouts the current mascot just aimlessly wandered around the court clapping and occasionally thrusting his rifle in the air. Plus, I'm pretty sure I saw that guy selling knives on the Smokey Mountain Knifeworks show.

Sounds exactly what happened in 1986 at Greensboro. NOTE: That was the year that Johnny D got us past a TOUGH opening round game against Mississippi Valley State. As a result of listening to the WVU cheer and watching the mascot, my wife can't stand WVU.

Perhaps we need a comment from our resident WVU expert, rthomas.

LGD! GTHC, GTH!!!
Lavabe

slower
03-21-2008, 06:52 AM
I think we match up well with WVU. Singler has played decent D even in the games where he struggled...just needs to not commit stupid fouls. Markie needs some flu medicine; G needs to be put into cryogenic suspension immediately after his postgame shower.

Scheyer needs to be handling the ball

slower
03-21-2008, 06:53 AM
Sounds exactly what happened in 1986 at Greensboro. NOTE: That was the year that Johnny D got us past a TOUGH opening round game against Mississippi Valley State. As a result of listening to the WVU cheer and watching the mascot, my wife can't stand WVU.

Perhaps we need a comment from our resident WVU expert, rthomas.

LGD! GTHC, GTH!!!
Lavabe

I didn't watch the WVU game, but I always assumed their mascot was the banjo-playing kid from "Deliverance". Sorry, couldn't help it - there are some particulary annoying WVU fans in my office pool who are smack-talking.

RelativeWays
03-21-2008, 06:59 AM
We need a shaman to cast a bunch of buffs on our team before the game. Then maybe we'll win.

dukestheheat
03-21-2008, 07:04 AM
We need a shaman to cast a bunch of buffs on our team before the game. Then maybe we'll win.

We need Laettner, Grant Hill and also Bobby Hurley.

Everybody lets get down and channel these guys BACK so they can help the team.

Does WVU have a really fast guard, like Belmont did?

dth.

CatfiveCane
03-21-2008, 07:06 AM
Duke needs to play with hunger. Play excited.

But most importantly, Duke needs to have fun and be relaxed.

Everything else will take care of itself.

Buckeye Devil
03-21-2008, 07:16 AM
Just be glad that basketball is played indoors. Otherwise, he would be firing his muzzleloader in the air after every basket the way he does for every WVU touchdown in football. But he is not as annoying as that miserable chant or even WVU fans.

The WVU fans that I know are as annoying as you will ever find. They have a real chip on their shoulder for just about everything sports related and would love nothing better than to beat a high profile program like Duke. With that said, you would never find a nicer man or better h.s. basketball coach than Bob Huggins' father. But I hope that Duke rebounds better and contains Joe. They will win if they do those two things.

West Virginia word for the day: FAR, as in "The mountaineer mascot likes to FAR his muzzleloader."

dukestheheat
03-21-2008, 07:19 AM
Duke needs to play with hunger. Play excited.

But most importantly, Duke needs to have fun and be relaxed.

Everything else will take care of itself.

I did see that Duke played so scared last night, with little excitement and with little hunger. It's like we were playing not to lose the game; like with a burden on our back.

I think the win exorcised this burden and we'll play much better tomorrow. I look for an up-tempo effort on the defensive end, hitting the free throws and controlling the ball.

Also, I am wondering IF WVU has a lightning-quick guard as did Belmont?

thanks,

dth.

dukerev
03-21-2008, 07:24 AM
In much the same way that Duke has more talent on its team than Belmont, Arizona has more talent on its team than West Virginia (which is not to say that WVU does not have talent - just that it appeared to me watching the UA-WVU game that with Bayless, Buddinger and the big guy inside UA had some more talented pieces). WVU played together far better than Zona did. Belmont played together a bit better than we did. The way we beat WVU is play better as a team (than they do). Communication is key. We have the tools, we have the talent. Whether it will be winning time will depend on coming together.

MarkD83
03-21-2008, 07:36 AM
Let me take a stab at some analytical things to do better.

Overall: Better on court communication.

On several back doors last night it looked like two Duke defensive players bumped into one another. At other times the person getting beat looked down low expecting someone else to be there. There was also a sequence when a Belmont player had the ball in the post and the Duke defender left him there before anyone else got back.

This are all signs that the team is not talking to one another.

Defense:

The players are standing up to straight on defense and not shuffling there feet. The effort was there to make steals and deny but several times you would see the Duke defender "jump" out to make a steal. When they did not get the steal they were in the air and could not recover to get back on D. The rest of the team compensated but for the rest of sequence Duke was chasing.

So..stay on your feet.

In transition Duke was not getting all 5 players back on defense. This may not be a problem with WVA, but is a problem with fast paced teams. There were several sequences where 4 players got back and had to compensate for the last player not getting back. Duke stopped the fast break but just like leaving you feet on defense the rest of the sequence had Duke chasing rather than defending.

Offense:

Spacing and movement.

Many times we set the high screen and someone would drive but no one else would move. Therefore, defenders could help and recover very easily because they could recover right back to where they were. Earlier in the year when someone would drive the perimeter players would move 10 feet from where they were (and that us all it takes) and would be open for a pass. Recently the perimeter players who are not part of the high screen are not moving that 10 feet to get open. When some players did move others did not so everyone ended up too close to one another (spacing).

We are also sending too many "telegraphed" passes. This is also part of movement. We are trying to establish Lance and Brian in the post but often times they are both standing in one place for awhile. By the time they get the ball a weak side defender knows they are going to get it. If they are going to get the ball in the post they need to flash acorss the lane and if they don't get the ball they need to move and flash across again.


Finally, Bob Knight mentioned that basketball in March is about maintaining concentration. It is very hard to do that after 4 months of effort. But if I had to put down a to do list for Duke to improve it would be

1. Concentrate
2. Keep your feet on the ground playing defense
3. Move without the ball on offense
4. Talk, talk, talk

arnie
03-21-2008, 07:52 AM
If DeMarcus is stiil sick, I hope Nolan plays many more minutes - yes, he makes a few more mistakes, but if he's healthier than Nelson - he's going to be more effective. I also trust his outside shot at this point in the season.

I think we will come out like gangbusters - the close win may help us in this game. One quibble with the DBR analysis of the Belmont game - I don't like the excuse that we are made up primarily of freshman and sophmores and Belmont is more experienced. We start two upper classmen and two of our other players (scheyer and henderson) have played a ton of minutes over the past 2 years. Yes, we are younger than Belmont, but don't think overall the team is "young" anymore - that reasoning explained some of last year's problems, but don't think it should be used for this years team.

tecumseh
03-21-2008, 08:05 AM
Few notes
Their big win against Pitt came I believe when Pitts starting point guard was down and he makes a BIG difference. WVU enjoys a big home court advantage something about a strange backdrop and that guy firing that rifle.

I hate to state the obvious but we need to shoot the 3 ball better. Also Duke looked soooooooo tight we need to play with some joy and passion. On the positive side what does a game like this do to Henderson's confidence it is so important to have a go to guy when all offense breaks down.

EarlJam
03-21-2008, 08:10 AM
Perimeter defense, stick a guy on Alexander at all times, take and make good shots, and don't forget about Da'Sean Butler.

There was little to no driving by WVU in the game tonight, and Butler did most of what did occur. Arizona got looks, they just didn't capitalize. And Alexander can be turned over if you push him out of the paint.

I agree with this. I felt like our perimeter defense has just been awful of late. UNC, Miami, Wake Forest, Belmont. I rememeber screaming at the TV (sorry TV) about us giving up wide open threes for each of those games. I'm talking, "so wide open a Duke player isn't in sight" open.

-EarlJam

CDu
03-21-2008, 08:19 AM
Do a better job of creating (and hitting) open 3s.
Don't let WVU kill us on the glass.
Don't turn the ball over.
Hit free throws.
Play stingy defense, especially on the perimeter.

In terms of matchups, WVU doesn't jump off the page. Joe Alexander is very good, but we can guard him Singler and not be at a huge deficit. Henderson can guard Butler. They don't have a guard who causes nightmares off the dribble.

They have a few players who shoot well from three, and they attempt a pretty high number of threes (over 20 per game). If we defend the perimeter well and don't allow too many offensive rebounds, we should be okay on the defensive end.

On offense, we need to be stronger with the ball on our drive and kicks. Teams have started hedging more and applying tougher perimeter defense later in the season, which has cut down on the easy drive and kicks. We have to get back to that, or every game is going to be a battle.

slower
03-21-2008, 08:21 AM
West Virginia word for the day: FAR, as in "The mountaineer mascot likes to FAR his muzzleloader."

my dad used to imitate one of his co-workers (who may have been from WV) by speaking the following sentence: "I hired Howard because he's a hard worker."

Of course, it came out like this: "I hard Hard cuz he's a hard worker."

88egr
03-21-2008, 09:13 AM
Last night and in some previous losses we are unable to reliably score in the last 5 minutes - at all. No jump shots go down - our guys are tired and have no legs at the end (except Gerald).

I thought K was actually changing his tune a little in the Clemson game by subbing a lot more, but he was back to his usual self - playing essentially the same 5 guys for about the last 10 minutes of last nights' game.

Yes, I know Zoubek couldn't stay with their big guy, but every time I looked at the bench - there were he, Smith, McClure, King, and sometimes Thomas. King gets no time in the second half??? Come on?

Belmont was always fresh and ready to go - and really deserved to win.

Coach - you've got a wealth of talent - use it!

Saratoga2
03-21-2008, 09:35 AM
I think we match up well with WVU. Singler has played decent D even in the games where he struggled...just needs to not commit stupid fouls. Markie needs some flu medicine; G needs to be put into cryogenic suspension immediately after his postgame shower.

WVU looks very competent and battle tested. Singler will need to guard their best and will have to stop committing fouls due to being overeager. We need him in the game.

Scheyer will need to play most of the game. I would start Jon, since our starting 5 have looked pretty anemic in many games. It doesn't make a lot of sense to get behind and to give the opponent confidence in the first few minutes.

If DeMarcus hasn't recovered sufficiently, we could start Henderson, Scheyer, Paulus, Singler and Zoubek. Smith can sub at guard but he has to stop overplaying as much. It wears him out and he tends to lose his man. He has a lot of offensive potential and we should encourage that. DeMarcus should play if he feels up to it, but not if he cannot manage to be effective. I know he is a senior and it may be his last game, so I favor playing him if at all possible.

We need Thomas to play well, but he hasn't of late. I have no idea what is wrong there but we do have McClure and King who can back up the bigs.

They are not the kind of team with blazing speed but do show a lot of desire and battle hard for loose balls. Arizona was a pretty good team with some excellent players and WVU handled them. It won't be easy out there.

DankeShane
03-21-2008, 10:12 AM
We need a shaman to cast a bunch of buffs on our team before the game. Then maybe we'll win.

Ok, I laughed very hard at this...

WeepingThomasHill
03-21-2008, 10:18 AM
Saratoga2 wants Zoubek to start instead of a sick Nelson? No, no, no. I cringe at that thought. I'll take a coughing, wheezing Nelson wheeled out on the court, with an IV sticking out of his arm, tossing up his knuckleball jumpers, instead of giving Zoubek the start. And I still like Big Game Jon coming off the bench, as he is really our only reliable bench player and can sub in at any position.

rsvman
03-21-2008, 11:25 AM
I don't like that the list of teams to which WVa has lost reads like the AP Top Ten.

I think these guys would be a tough game even if we were healthy. We need to pray for them to have an off game and for some of our outside shooters to catch fire.

Mal
03-21-2008, 11:42 AM
Others have touched on this, but with teams hedging more in the latter part of the season to prevent our kickouts to wide open 3-point shooters, our shot selection has suffered. I haven't looked at numbers, but it sure seems like our 3-point shooting has dropped off, and I feel like we're hoisting off the dribble or with guys in our face more often. From what I saw of the game last night (and it was much more than I would ever have wanted to see - I don't want CBS to feel compelled to broadcast one second of our first round matchup), I think when we saw success toward the end of the game it was through a slightly different tactic. If the opposing defense is going to shade toward the line to close on exterior shooting, let someone take it all the way to the hoop. If his wrist holds up, Henderson is a very good finisher. Let him get 12 early points and rack up fouls on the defense by slashing through the lane, and eventually the perimeter will open up again. Does West Virginia have someone who can stick with him man-to-man, without help down the lane?

Coach K is great at throwing a wrinkle in at the start of a game, that goes off the scouting report and makes the opponent make a tactical change to deal with it, at which point we gain the upper hand. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts against WVU by limiting the kickouts, trying to get to the rim or getting Thomas or someone easy buckets on the dish. Perhaps using the top of the key screen for Henderson more often, while having Singler slice to the lane on the penetration instead of floating down the baseline to the corner so much. It could loosen us up if it works, instead of making it feel like we're just hoping someone magically gets wide open for a 20-footer before the shot clock starts winding down and we panic. Everone's aware that there seems to be a correlation with our shooting <35% from 3 and our losing, so they're devoting a lot of energy to defending the 3. It would be an interesting wrinkle to just termporarily abandon the 3, then, and make them start focusing on something else. Then the 3 will miraculously open up again. Perhaps risky, I guess, going away from your strength. But it hasn't been that much of a strength recently, other than against weak teams like Tech and NC State.

I'm just glad Pittsnoggle's gone.

CDu
03-21-2008, 11:52 AM
Others have touched on this, but with teams hedging more in the latter part of the season to prevent our kickouts to wide open 3-point shooters, our shot selection has suffered. I haven't looked at numbers, but it sure seems like our 3-point shooting has dropped off, and I feel like we're hoisting off the dribble or with guys in our face more often. From what I saw of the game last night (and it was much more than I would ever have wanted to see - I don't want CBS to feel compelled to broadcast one second of our first round matchup), I think when we saw success toward the end of the game it was through a slightly different tactic. If the opposing defense is going to shade toward the line to close on exterior shooting, let someone take it all the way to the hoop. If his wrist holds up, Henderson is a very good finisher. Let him get 12 early points and rack up fouls on the defense by slashing through the lane, and eventually the perimeter will open up again. Does West Virginia have someone who can stick with him man-to-man, without help down the lane?

Coach K is great at throwing a wrinkle in at the start of a game, that goes off the scouting report and makes the opponent make a tactical change to deal with it, at which point we gain the upper hand. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts against WVU by limiting the kickouts, trying to get to the rim or getting Thomas or someone easy buckets on the dish. Perhaps using the top of the key screen for Henderson more often, while having Singler slice to the lane on the penetration instead of floating down the baseline to the corner so much. It could loosen us up if it works, instead of making it feel like we're just hoping someone magically gets wide open for a 20-footer before the shot clock starts winding down and we panic. Everone's aware that there seems to be a correlation with our shooting <35% from 3 and our losing, so they're devoting a lot of energy to defending the 3. It would be an interesting wrinkle to just termporarily abandon the 3, then, and make them start focusing on something else. Then the 3 will miraculously open up again. Perhaps risky, I guess, going away from your strength. But it hasn't been that much of a strength recently, other than against weak teams like Tech and NC State.

I'm just glad Pittsnoggle's gone.

I don't think it's that simple. The problem isn't simply that teams aren't collapsing on the drive anymore. The problem is that, with the hedging is that we aren't able to get the dribble penetration anymore. Without the dribble penetration, the passing lanes aren't created for the easy kick-out threes. So if we can't create the easy dribble penetration that leads to the kickouts for three, then we aren't going to get the easy drives to the rim either.

We either have to figure out a way to create more (or more effective) dribble penetration, or we have to find a different way to score. Early in the year, we scored off of turnovers and dribble penetration leading to kickout threes. Teams seem to have found a way to cut down on our dribble penetration a bit, and we don't seem to be forcing as many easy buckets off of turnovers. Either we have to find a new way to recreate the forced turnovers and dribble penetration, or we have to find a new way to create offense in the halfcourt.

JasonEvans
03-21-2008, 12:22 PM
Fatigue will be a factor in this game.

Duke may suffer from it from an emotionally draining game last night. Plus, as we have heard so much, Duke is physically sick right now. Still, despite the fact that K used largely the same 5 guys for the bulk of the 2nd half, we used our bench a ton more than West Virginia did and that may be to our advantage.

No one for Duke played more than 34 minutes. West Virginia had Alexander at 37 minutes, Butler at 38, and Ruoff playing all 40 minutes of the game. Those 3 guys plus Nicholas all averaged better than 30 minutes per game on the season. Demarcus Nelson is the only Dukie who averaged more than 30 minutes per game on the season.

No two ways about it-- we are deeper and use our bench more than they do.

What's more-- aside from a tournament in mid-November and the back-to-back games of the Big East Tourney, West Virginia did not play a single 2-games-in-3 days scenario during the regular season like they face today. Granted, Duke only did it once (at the end of January when we played NCSU late on a Saturday night and then Miami on Saturday), but both teams are going to have to adjust to the quick turnaround and (again) I like our deeper team in a situation like that.

--Jason "I really hope K continues to do what he has lately, using a lot of the bench in the first half-- and press/attack on D to make West Virginia wear down some" Evans

Mal
03-21-2008, 02:10 PM
The problem is that, with the hedging is that we aren't able to get the dribble penetration anymore.

I agree there's no snap your fingers, "Voila!" solution here, but am I reading you correctly on the above - are you saying that a current inability to get initial dribble penetration is partly a result of defenses pressing outside to stop 3's? Or are you saying that we're being hampered independently by an inability to penetrate and lack of collapse when we do? If it's the former, I guess I disagree. To the extent they're all up in our face 20 feet out, it should actually make it easier to get by your guy without immediate help arriving, and find some space in the lane. Unless they're playing off whoever has the ball, and faceguarding everyone else beyond the 3-point line (in which case backdoor cutting would be in order), it shouldn't be any harder to get past someone with the dribble than it typically might be. If we're truly not getting initial penetration to the extent we were before, then you're right, we need to put in some different screening scheme or something, or sacrifice a little passing flow to make it a bigger priority for Nelson or Henderson to break down their guy whenever the opportunity presents itself. Personally, I'm seeing more of a problem of getting to within 12 feet but, without four guys collapsing to the ball, not knowing what to do with it. Regardless, I think if they set their minds to springing a particular guy free to penetrate, they can make it happen - they just need to be penetrating with a mindset of taking it to the rack rather than doing so to free up someone outside.

Good point about not getting points off of turnovers - that seemed to be happening an awful lot more earlier in the year. Inferior opposition, perhaps?

BlueDevilBaby
03-21-2008, 02:45 PM
There is a lot of center hedging out on guys trying to turn the corner at the foul line. I'd love to see some passes to Singler or Thomas slipping the screen to the goal. We just don't get it inside like that very often.

CDu
03-21-2008, 02:47 PM
I agree there's no snap your fingers, "Voila!" solution here, but am I reading you correctly on the above - are you saying that a current inability to get initial dribble penetration is partly a result of defenses pressing outside to stop 3's? Or are you saying that we're being hampered independently by an inability to penetrate and lack of collapse when we do? If it's the former, I guess I disagree. To the extent they're all up in our face 20 feet out, it should actually make it easier to get by your guy without immediate help arriving, and find some space in the lane. Unless they're playing off whoever has the ball, and faceguarding everyone else beyond the 3-point line (in which case backdoor cutting would be in order), it shouldn't be any harder to get past someone with the dribble than it typically might be. If we're truly not getting initial penetration to the extent we were before, then you're right, we need to put in some different screening scheme or something, or sacrifice a little passing flow to make it a bigger priority for Nelson or Henderson to break down their guy whenever the opportunity presents itself. Personally, I'm seeing more of a problem of getting to within 12 feet but, without four guys collapsing to the ball, not knowing what to do with it. Regardless, I think if they set their minds to springing a particular guy free to penetrate, they can make it happen - they just need to be penetrating with a mindset of taking it to the rack rather than doing so to free up someone outside.

Good point about not getting points off of turnovers - that seemed to be happening an awful lot more earlier in the year. Inferior opposition, perhaps?

What I'm referring to happens before there is even a drive. When there's a screen on the perimeter (or even higher out closer to midcourt), hedging happens when the screener's defender stepping out and guarding the man with the ball. This does two things: (1) it prevents an open three, and (2) allows more time for the defender who was screened to recover. If you don't hedge, the guy with the ball has two nice options: (1) shoot an open three or (2) turn the corner and drive to the basket.

Earlier in the season, teams were either lazy on hedging or lazy on switching. As such, (especially on those high screens) it allowed our ballhandlers to turn the corner and get into the lane more easily. At that point, teams had to choose between collapsing or staying home. Now, teams are doing a better jump of hedging/recovering and/or switching on screens. Since some of our players aren't that great at beating people off the dribble, this strategy has really cut down on our ability to turn the corner off screens and get into the lane. As such, it has cut down on both our ability to take it to the hole AND our ability to generate kickouts for threes.

As for our trouble creating turnovers, I think it is a combination of playing tougher competition as well as facing teams when they're more focused and they've had more practice against pressure defense.

greybeard
03-21-2008, 02:52 PM
Duke needs to get points at the rim. If the penetration to the foul line from the wing and then continuing to attack to the rim is taken away, as it seems to have been more and more in the past weeks, then Singler and Lance have to create those chances.

There must be inside out play, and a threat to score at the basket for Duke to win. K put in a new two high post thing for the last game that did not seem to work too well. But, Lance did have some easy chances. He will finish them. That needs to continue. If WV takes away the penetration to the foul line, whatever K had them doing to clear the basket area when baseline drives occur needs to be tried again.

I think Kyle can score down low. I look for 2-4 easy baskets or fouls from him getting excellent low position and a good entry pass.

If Duke can find a way to make WVa defend near the rim, I am confident.

If WVa can belly-up to the wing players as they dribble to the point of attack at the foul lane, it will be because the refs are not calling those type of belly fouls. That will make the game a real dog fight. If the refs call those belly fouls, Duke will handle this team easily.

Belmont defended in this fashion all over the exterior and were even knocking guys down with no call being made; that happens again and the only other real option is penetration via the pass.

I think that Duke will come out and try to establish an inside passing game early, and that either Kyle or Lance or both will get some chances. I think that WVa will underdefend that part of the game, and that Duke will not come out dancing but will go right after the rim with its bigs.

BTW, if Zoubek is two feet from the basket and asking for it and don't get it, as happened last night, the guy who don't throw it has to sit. Zoubek has to make that catch and finish, period. If guys are afraid to give him that chance, either they or Zoubs should not be on the court, at least not at the same time.

blazindw
03-21-2008, 03:13 PM
BTW, if Zoubek is two feet from the basket and asking for it and don't get it, as happened last night, the guy who don't throw it has to sit. Zoubek has to make that catch and finish, period. If guys are afraid to give him that chance, either they or Zoubs should not be on the court, at least not at the same time.

Zoubek and Lance both need to be stronger in the paint. If they can get it going inside, that will free a ton of the pressure on the perimeter so that Scheyer, Nelson, Hendo and the guards can flow more. There were times last night where Belmont double teamed our guards with their big man because they knew that Z wasn't getting the ball.

And when they do get the ball, go up STRONG! No trying to softly lay it in like no one's around, that's when smaller players block them (which shouldn't happen). Go up strong, lay it in hard or dunk it on someone.

I also think Singler should stay on the inside a bit more to help with the rebounding and inside presence. He should go outside too, but there should be more of a balance, because I think whoever's guarding him can get really frustrated trying to guard him every which way on the court.

I think that the bad individual nights we had last night are hopefully out of their system (and the flu-like bug that most of them have can disappear as well). Nelson's not going to have another night with only 2 points. His improved presence will only help us. I think a day of rest will have him feeling much better and ready to step up tomorrow.

WVU's going to bring it. Their guards are very disciplined, and Joe Alexander is as advertised. Tenacious defense is a must. Cutting down on the turnovers and bad shot selection is also helpful. Finally, have more hunger, fire, passion, will, determination, and all the other intangibles than the other team. We do those things, we should be ahead when the clock hits 00.0 in the 2nd half

feldspar
03-21-2008, 03:27 PM
Zoubek needs to quit guarding people like he's 6'7. He's not. There's no reason for him to reach over his opponent to go for the huge blocked shot. Just put your hands up and take advantage of your height.

Jumbo
03-21-2008, 03:54 PM
The How we beat X author posted under the handle TMC.

Congrats! You have 21 hours to find TMC. Good luck!

Jumbo
03-21-2008, 04:38 PM
Okay, let's assume the team is relatively healthy. Here's how I'd attack West Virginia.

Defense
-I would not switch all screens. We've done it well at times this year, but it has hurt us lately. And West Virginia is excellent at exploiting mismatches by throwing Alexander on the block. I do not want to see us switch and repeatedly force Paulus to cover him.
-Speaking of Alexander, he's an excellent player. I'd actually open with Lance on him, with Singler on Smalligan, Paulus on Nichols, Nelson on Ruoff and Henderson on Butler. I think Singler will end up covering him, but I'd rather let Lance -- who is a versatile defender -- take the first crack at him and let Singler be a help defender (since Smalligan is not a scorer). Alexander is an extremely versatile scorer. I'd double him with a big when he posts, and be ready with to help off Smalligan when he puts it on the deck. Also, if McClure is healthy, he is well suited to guard Alexander for a stretch.
-As long as Smalligan is in the game, I'd trap Nichols early (like we've done against Singletary and Rice) to try to get the ball out of his hands. Singler or Thomas should be able to rotate back to Smalligan in time to make this effective. Nichols is their playmaker.
-Make Ruoff put the ball on the deck. Scheyer should be an excellent guy to cover him.
-Pressure the heck out of the ball early. If it's not effective, pull it back. I know WVA doesn't turn it over much, but I want to force their secondary and tertiary ball-handlers to have to initiate the offense.

Offense
-Get the ball to Singler in the post. This has been a common refrain of mine, but I believe in it so strongly. He needs to make Alexander work, and hopefully get him in foul trouble. I want to see Singler getting to the FT line. If Kyle gets some stuff going inside 10 feet, that will open up a bunch of other options for other guys. Duke actually seemed to want to do this early against Belmont, but foul trouble/strange situations took us out of this situation.
-Bring back the weave early in the shot clock. K put this in last year purely to get a little more motion in the offense. Last night, particularly in the last five minutes, we had a ton of trouble initiating our sets. We literally couldn't even feed the ball into the elbow. Let's get the guys moving a little bit.
-I'd love to get out and run, but that's predicated on forcing turnovers and grabbing long rebounds.
-More side pick and rolls, less one-on-one. I think this will help Markie turn the corner easier, as he excelled in these situations last year. I love watching Singler slip the screen, rather than holding and popping. We really need to attack the rim early and see if we can get to the FT line. WVA isn't deep and they have a couple of key players who can't afford to get in foul trouble.
-After Paulus dishes to the wing, run him to the corner. This serves two purposes: 1) It puts our best shooter in the spot designed to keep help defenders from collapsing on our drives. That's part of the design of the Phoenix offense (which we're not really running that much). 2) It lets Henderson, Nelson and particularly Scheyer make plays up top. I'd attack whomever Ruoff is guarding. Make him move laterally. I think Henderson and Scheyer, in particular, should be able to get to the foul line off dribble drives against Ruoff.
-I agree with Greybeard that I'd get Lance a couple of touches early. Let's see what he's got. And when Zoubek in, run him to the elbow, and let Kyle cut behind him. That's effective. Another nice wrinkle was posting up Henderson last night, but I don't think that will be as effective against WVU's bigger wing players.
-Finally -- and I can't believe I'm going to say this -- dust off Taylor King. I've tried to calm down some of his biggest fans by mentioning some of his shortcomings, and clearly we'll sacrifice some defense when he's out there. But he deserves a heat-check -- an extended 4-5 minute stretch in the first half. We've seen that maybe more than anyone else, he can light a spark under the team with a couple of threes. We need a lift right now. It's worth an early look, given the way others have been struggling from downtown. And I'd do it early -- before anyone else's shooting struggles have a chance to rub off. Run your offense and kick to him in the corner.

Anyway, WVA won't really play a lineup much bigger than ours for the most part. The matchups are pretty good. Play hard, play smart and play together. Let's go Duke!

phaedrus
03-21-2008, 05:14 PM
I don't like that the list of teams to which WVa has lost reads like the AP Top Ten.


Might as well add ourselves to that list, no?

gofurman
03-21-2008, 07:43 PM
Agreed, and I hope that some folks who will be at Verizon on Saturday will read this. There will be a whole hell of a lot of WVA fans there for our game (as there were tonight), and we need to at least try to match them in intensity and enthusiasm

seriously please cheer and loud - i could hardly hear anyone rooting for duke.

BCGroup
03-21-2008, 08:13 PM
Let me take a stab at some analytical things to do better.

Offense:
Spacing and movement.
We are also sending too many "telegraphed" passes. This is also part of movement. We are trying to establish Lance and Brian in the post but often times they are both standing in one place for awhile. By the time they get the ball a weak side defender knows they are going to get it. If they are going to get the ball in the post they need to flash acorss the lane and if they don't get the ball they need to move and flash across again.


I think this is especially true. Anyone else think K might do some zone tomorrow?

mgtr
03-21-2008, 09:09 PM
I think that if Henderson and Scheyer are well, and the other eight guys are just about well enough to play, we can win. If those two guys know we are depending upon them, they will play heart and soul for us. If we can also get help from Singler and Paulus, WV goes off with their tail between their legs.
Go Duke!

jipops
03-21-2008, 10:19 PM
Depending on overall health, seems we need to get out and run like hell. WV wants a half court game, we need a fast paced tempo.

As Jumbo stated in his thorough analysis I would love to see Singler get things going in the post. He's got a great ability in sealing his defender in the post to get a good angle to score.

Of note, WVU was 12th in the Big East in 3pt % defense. Would love to see Paulus and Scheyer take full advantage of this.

chrisheery
03-21-2008, 11:21 PM
1. spread the court
- to do so, you have to have players in who can do that effectively
- so, 4 guards and singler, lance and mcclure to spell him (or maybe king at times as the 4)
- drive to pass: teams have learned that we are deciding before we drive to get to the rack when we have missed a few. drive to a spot from which you are a threat for 2 or 3 passes and make the defense commit
- obviously, we have to shoot better, but more patience and better shots from better passing should help with that significantly

2. don't clog the middle
- i love the potential of zoubek, but now is not the time for potential
- if a player can't handle the ball away from the hoop, if he can't cut and pass, he is detracting from this teams best asset, maybe that will change next year, but for now, we are at our best when the lanes are open because it allows us to drive and kick

3. i am aware that 1 and 2 are the same thing, just stated slightly differently. its just that important in my opinion.

4. mix up the d
- just for fun and to mess with them, teams seem to just freak out when we play a 2-3. i think we play it well because we have smart players and 2 stud athletes in hendo and dmark who can make up for some mistakes of others in a zone.
- when a team isn't turning it over, there is no reason to think they will just start to for no reason. play smart instead of risky when risky isn't working at all

5. please win, i cant stand the wait until next october

bhop22
03-22-2008, 12:19 AM
I was just on espn.com and saw that WVU is favored in the game. I know that doesn't mean anything, but it shows 51% to 49% in favor of Huggy's crew. I really hope we can step up and spank those guys today.

moonpie23
03-22-2008, 12:26 AM
i really think the monkey of josh mcbob is off this team's back. that being said, i think if they go out there and play the Duke game and be aggressive, we can get it done...

throatybeard
03-22-2008, 01:59 AM
Congrats! You have 21 hours to find TMC. Good luck!

I'm not entirely sure, but I think it might have been Rob Clough's old handle. That's a vague recollection and it could be wrong.

Bob Green
03-22-2008, 02:15 AM
I was just on espn.com and saw that WVU is favored in the game. I know that doesn't mean anything, but it shows 51% to 49% in favor of Huggy's crew. I really hope we can step up and spank those guys today.

Duke is the favorite in Las Vegas - 3.5 to 4.5 points at the various sportsbooks (http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/).

Dukerati
03-22-2008, 08:24 AM
We beat West Virginia by busting out of our shooting slumps in a big way. We hit the 3, we defend the 3, we survive till next week.