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View Full Version : Duke MBB vs. Belmont Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
03-20-2008, 08:24 PM
Post your post-game thoughts here.

_Gary
03-20-2008, 08:25 PM
If anybody votes for ANYBODY, they should be ashamed.

I know what you are saying, but Gerald did play great in the 2nd half. He saved our bacon and certainly deserves man of the match honors.

Chard
03-20-2008, 08:25 PM
I expected close but dang! Belmont played great. Duke not so much. Gerald Henderson for Prez! He was the MOTM followed by Scheyer. Duke won't see a team like that again in this tournament.

cspan37421
03-20-2008, 08:26 PM
Gerald was a man. Everyone else, get in line.

91devil
03-20-2008, 08:26 PM
Next time you guys start talking about 'what time is the next tournament game televised?' before you play the current one, remember 3/20/08.

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 08:26 PM
That warm breeze you all just felt was me exhaling all the way from the southern hemisphere. We have never been so lucky to win a game in my life.

Teton Jack
03-20-2008, 08:26 PM
Were they all suffering the flu or what?

jma4life
03-20-2008, 08:26 PM
At this point, I'm just glad to avoid the embarrassment of losing as a 2 seed. I don't know whats wrong with Demarcus. Was he sick?

I'll try to be positive so congrats to Scheyer for a big first half and Henderson for a beast second half.

indakut
03-20-2008, 08:26 PM
I know what you are saying, but Gerald did play great in the 2nd half. He saved our bacon and certainly deserves man of the match honors.

I agree...Gerald really saved the team. http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

ambitiouspear
03-20-2008, 08:27 PM
It would be fantastic if this game spurred our team on to a National Championship. I can see it now!

grossbus
03-20-2008, 08:27 PM
we play another game like that, it won't matter who we play next...we gone!

probably by double digits.

dukeENG2003
03-20-2008, 08:27 PM
4.0 seconds left, I have NEVER yelled at the TV as loud and for as long as I did then. That was absolutely absurd that there was no over the back call. I doubt Paulus was tackled as hard during his career as a QB. Ridiculous.

Not to take anything away from Belmont, they played a great game, but that call was crazy.

bhop22
03-20-2008, 08:27 PM
survive and advance, I guess?

DevilCastDownfromDurham
03-20-2008, 08:27 PM
Agree. Momentary exultation followed by a deep concern about Saturday's game. For tonight I'm staying positive: survive and advance.

Let's go Duke and he11 yes G!

PDDuke85
03-20-2008, 08:27 PM
All I could think of for the second half was Weber State

sandinmyshoes
03-20-2008, 08:28 PM
Pains me to say it, but the better team tonight did not win. We just did not deserve that game. Belmont did. But, the breaks went our way and we stole one. Need a better showing than that or we will be going home sooner rather than later. :(

Papa Moon
03-20-2008, 08:28 PM
The only good thing i can see coming from this game, is now that gerald henderson knows that he has the ability and can do whatever he wants on the basketball court.

Grounded
03-20-2008, 08:28 PM
Dude.

UNCLE.

Seriously.

I'm not sure my Saturday is ready for another one of those...:(

OZZIE4DUKE
03-20-2008, 08:28 PM
It would be fantastic if this game spurred our team on to a National Championship. I can see it now!

As I posted in the Phase VI thread, WHEW! Survive and advance, baby, survive and advance.

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 08:28 PM
Next time you guys start talking about 'what time is the next tournament game televised?' before you play the current one, remember 3/20/08.

It really doesn't matter how far in advance the fans look. What matters is the players' mindset. And I truly believe we came out ready to play against belmont tonight. But Belmont was better than anybody, including us, believed they would be and when they didn't fall the team's confidence was noticably shaken. Remember, this was only the 1st or 2nd ncaa game for most of the team.

MAN, did we skate tonight. I can't want to see gerald's big play at the end. Thanks to internet issues, I missed it the first time. I'll catch the replay.

fisheyes
03-20-2008, 08:28 PM
Duke beat University of Rhode Island by 1 point in a similarly tough first round game in Charlotte. Where did we go from there? To the final game! I like that mojo. Let's get them all some Tamiflu! Survive and advance!

GO DUKE!!!!!!!

NYD33
03-20-2008, 08:29 PM
That game just took years off my life. I feel like I need a cigarette and I don't even smoke

dukestheheat
03-20-2008, 08:29 PM
I expected close but dang!

man, they totally and without a doubt outplayed our guys. we looked scared the whole game, we really did. where did this belmont team come from? i've never heard of belmont.

we need a major overhaul before saturday. where in the world do we begin? i don't even know which hole to plug as we appear to be bleeding to death from several spots.

dukestheheat, who is preparing to die.

77devil
03-20-2008, 08:30 PM
Duke is very lucky to advance. Belmont played harder. Duke's defense was simply awful. I wonder if Demarc has the flu.

sandinmyshoes
03-20-2008, 08:30 PM
4.0 seconds left, I have NEVER yelled at the TV as loud and for as long as I did then. That was absolutely absurd that there was no over the back call. I doubt Paulus was tackled as hard during his career as a QB. Ridiculous.

Not to take anything away from Belmont, they played a great game, but that call was crazy.


I'm sorry, but that is just ridiculous. We got more questionable calls in our favor than against. It was a fairly well officiated game and we played scared and they played with courage.

DukeCO2009
03-20-2008, 08:30 PM
I sure wish DeMarcus would man up sometimes. Great steal, yes, but two points for a senior leader won't cut it. He needs to get with the program if we're going to go places this March. Hope this doesn't come off as too destructive--just trying to be objective here.

Gerald was a man. I was worried about his wrist coming into the tourney, but he sure played like he wanted it today--that drive at the end was awesome.

dukebdx12
03-20-2008, 08:30 PM
i dont see how i am still standing after my heart took that kind of work. I am still somewhat embarrassed at the play but kinda think we still came out with the win even though belmont played a hell of a game and looked like the better team the whole game. I am glad we survived another day but have to play 10x better if we want to do anything in this tournament.

jma4life
03-20-2008, 08:31 PM
I'll just add that I don't know what I would have done had Duke lost another first round game at the buzzer. At this point, I fully expect to lose on Saturday. The entire team seemed sluggish and almost played as if this was a summer pickup game in 95 degree heat. Whether the flu has afflicted most of the team or not, I don't know but this performance did not make sense.

I know Duke in 86 survived a scare too so maybe this team can go on a run, but for now, I'm just thankful Demarcus' career won't end like that. I truly hope he can put together at least a semi-decent final game whenever that may be.

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 08:31 PM
I expected close but dang! Belmont played great. Duke not so much. Gerald Henderson for Prez! He was the MOTM followed by Scheyer. Duke won't see a team like that again in this tournament.

OK, what does that mean? This is the ncaa tournament. You think we'll get a cupcake next?

_Gary
03-20-2008, 08:31 PM
Pains me to say it, but the better team tonight did not win. We just did not deserve that game. Belmont did. But, the breaks went our way and we stole one. Need a better showing than that or we will be going home sooner rather than later. :(

I agree with everything you said except that the breaks went our way. I totally disagree with that. Belmont got every break conceivable in that game. That's why they were in a position to win at the end. There were any number of times that we were a fingernail away from a steal, or that they made a horrible pass on the offensive end but yet somehow came up with the ball and scored anyhow. No, they got most of the breaks.

Kilby
03-20-2008, 08:32 PM
Mr. Henderson is the man. 8 of 14 from the field 8 rebounds and 3 assists. Put the ball in his hands as long as his wrist allows. He is the go to man.

wiscodevil
03-20-2008, 08:32 PM
i dvr the game and start off watching and ff through commercials. the tighter it gets i just ff through the game and can't bear to watch, just thinking "they are not going to win this game" over and over an over and over


way too nerve-wracking to watch it live.

dukeENG2003
03-20-2008, 08:32 PM
I don't know what to say to that. The play speaks for itself.

Watch the play again, he was so over his back its crazy.

Acymetric
03-20-2008, 08:34 PM
28% from 3 didn't help our cause, I don't think we "rely" on the 3 necessarily, but 28% isn't going to cut it ever.

BigDuke6
03-20-2008, 08:34 PM
I'm sorry, but that is just ridiculous. We got more questionable calls in our favor than against. It was a fairly well officiated game and we played scared and they played with courage.

There is nothing you can say to convince me the official made the right call on that play. I know the officials swallow the whistle at the end of the game but that was a very bad call/no call/jumpball.

Classof06
03-20-2008, 08:34 PM
Big time players step up in the crunch time. Ladies and Gentleman, I think Gerald Henderson has arrived...

wumhenry
03-20-2008, 08:35 PM
Duke beat University of Rhode Island by 1 point in a similarly tough first round game in Charlotte. Where did we go from there? To the final game! I like that mojo. Let's get them all some Tamiflu! Survive and advance!
GO DUKE!!!!!!!

FWIW, the last two teams that beat Belmont in the first round went to the Final Four. (They won more convincingly, though.)

Buckeye Devil
03-20-2008, 08:36 PM
I apply that motto to a lot of areas of life but I didn't really plan on having to apply it like this to the realm of being a Duke basketball fan. So here it goes.

It's better than losing in the first round like last year, but not by much. Wow! My biggest worry now is what this means for the next game. To say anything more would be responding emotionally rather than logically.

tux
03-20-2008, 08:36 PM
Well, Belmont is well coached, and they played a great game. At the beginning of the game, when CBS showed the starting lineups, I noticed that Belmont was starting 4 Jr and a Sr. Sometimes a team can be much better than their seed and I think Duke ran into a well disciplined and great shooting team of veteran players. Gerald's driving layup will be a highlight, but he grabbed so many important rebounds. Markie was in a funk.

Saratoga2
03-20-2008, 08:36 PM
Belmont was a real threat and very well coached with quick players and ways to exploit the over aggressiveness of Duke. They also were quick enough to break us down at times. It was hard to understand why our defense left their shooters open for threes and also how we continually fell for their back door cuts. We also committed the over aggressive fouls, which when you look at some of them, you have to question what was in our players mind when he made the foul. We constantly let Belmont back in the game with missed plays.

Our offense looked anemic with Nelson and Thomas doing next to nothing. Henderson was the star for Duke and Scheyer had a creditable game. The Belmont defense was very aggressive so we were getting well into the clock before we could find any shot.

It would have been too bad had this game had ended the career of Nelson, who seemed not to have much go right for him.

DukeWarhead
03-20-2008, 08:36 PM
Belmont played great, but seriously, we have problems if we can't pull away from BELMONT. They lost to Kennesaw St.
I just need to go get my blood pressure down. At least we won't be a highlight reel for one of the "great" upsets of the tourney.

sandinmyshoes
03-20-2008, 08:37 PM
I agree with everything you said except that the breaks went our way. I totally disagree with that. Belmont got every break conceivable in that game. That's why they were in a position to win at the end. There were any number of times that we were a fingernail away from a steal, or that they made a horrible pass on the offensive end but yet somehow came up with the ball and scored anyhow. No, they got most of the breaks.


I disagree, although I was talking about questionable calls. But there were also a lot of instances where the ball bounced our way. I remember one possession by Belmont where the ball was almost snagged by three of their guys at three different points and finally ended up in Singler's hands, and his heel was hovering above endline. If he had rocked back he'd have been out of bounds. I nearly had three heart attacks on that one sequence, and when I saw his foot I nearly had an out of body experience because I just knew he was going to rock back to throw and outlet pass. Thankfully, he did not and I came back to this world. :o

Philadukie
03-20-2008, 08:37 PM
What do think has happened? Is it really Henderson's wrist? Or is there something more systemic going on in your estimation? Or both? Is the wrist triggering the systemic issues?

dukebdx12
03-20-2008, 08:38 PM
28% from 3 didn't help our cause, I don't think we "rely" on the 3 necessarily, but 28% isn't going to cut it ever.

agree...but most games if our 3 are not hitting we are in trouble.

SMO
03-20-2008, 08:38 PM
I'm sorry, but that is just ridiculous. We got more questionable calls in our favor than against. It was a fairly well officiated game and we played scared and they played with courage.

We did not get calls. We did not get calls. That game was one of the mostly poorly officiated games I've ever seen.

On a separate note, no two seed should ever need to get calls to beat a fifteen. Some very poor non-calls went against Duke, but they should not have needed them.

Scorp4me
03-20-2008, 08:38 PM
First off it's obvious Duke didn't play a good game, but they still won. But Belmont started 1 senior and 4 juniors . They have won their conference tournament the last 3 years straight. 4 of their starters only know winning. To be quite honest they scared me more than some of the other higher seeded teams. That being said I never imagined it would be this close, but they are definately a good team. And won that matches our strengths very well. We tried to take advantage of that and go inside early and it didn't work.

Losing would have been terrible I'll grant that. Not because I feel we always deserve to win, but just to have to listen to everyone else's mouths. But they were better than a 15 seed and in this time of college basketball I believe you'll see more upsets than in the past.

dukeENG2003
03-20-2008, 08:38 PM
There is nothing you can say to convince me the official made the right call on that play. I know the officials swallow the whistle at the end of the game but that was a very bad call/no call/jumpball.


THANK YOU

I happen to disagree with sandinmyshoes about who got the benefit of the calls tonight, but thats beside the point that I made. To agree with the "jump ball" call with 4.0 seconds left is simply confusing football with basketball.

_Gary
03-20-2008, 08:38 PM
Ok, so many if not most of us are kinda "embarrassed" at winning this game. I can understand that sentiment. But there is a thing called "survive and advance" and I personally feel that's what should be emphasized at this point. If we go on a run and reach the Final Four, no one will be talking about being embarrassed any more than UCLA in '95.

dukemsu
03-20-2008, 08:39 PM
No one has talked about how god-awful the coaching was in this game. A senile announcer figured out that Duke should've stopped overplaying on Defense before our entire staff did, i.e. about 10 minutes into the game.

I agree. I rarely get after K and the game plan, but it was pretty embarassing that we didn't even adjust.

And I don't want to hear about sickness. G bailed out everyone-including the guys wearing suits.

sandinmyshoes
03-20-2008, 08:39 PM
There is nothing you can say to convince me the official made the right call on that play. I know the officials swallow the whistle at the end of the game but that was a very bad call/no call/jumpball.

I'm not trying to convince anyone about that one play. I'm talking about over the course of the game.

But I'm just done talking about this stinker. No way we play that bad two games in a row. But we had better play a LOT better next game.

EarlJam
03-20-2008, 08:39 PM
Duke beat University of Rhode Island by 1 point in a similarly tough first round game in Charlotte. Where did we go from there? To the final game! I like that mojo. Let's get them all some Tamiflu! Survive and advance!

GO DUKE!!!!!!!

Great point. My experience over the years of watching this is if you squeak out a win like Duke did tonight, you generally follow it up with some decisive victories.

Performance in the first round is rarely an indicator of how the rest of the tournament will go. In fact, there have been more than a few times when Duke just KILLED a first round opponent only to fight for their life in the second round.

I wouldn't be surprised if we won fairly easily Saturday. Of course, wouldn't be surprised the other way either.

Bottom line: Can't judge the rest of the way by round one performance.

God bless Gerald Henderson!

-EarlJam

cspan37421
03-20-2008, 08:40 PM
Belmont was, by Sagarin, not in the top 100 teams in the country. Somewhere around 150. But they were faster than us, by far. Their guards shoot FTs better.

I thought we were jobbed in the first half, but merely outplayed in the 2nd.

I was thinking Zoubek in for O.R. with 1 min to go and the ball, but K was probably wise that it would clog up the middle for Gerald, much as Shaq clogs up the middle for Phoenix.

Zoubek trying to guard that Canadian guy at the top of the circle - ?? How is he on that guy? Or does Belmont just not have a comparable guy? Too bad they were too fast to zone, Zoubek shouldn't be out that far.

Several missed layups, and some tentative shooters.

I could not believe how that guy went straight by Nelson with not even a hip check. ACC DPOY? How many blocked shots did we have tonight? I didn't notice any, and so many times when Belmont shooters got elevated, we just watched and hoped it would bounce off to one of our guys. We got really lucky, Belmont went cold.

If we lost, I wouldn't have viewed it as the beginning of a slide for the program. Not while K is at the helm and still recruits well. What I do question is whether any of his favorite guards on the bench next to him is ready to take over when K steps down. When K was out in '95, his trusted guy did horribly. When he's sick tonight, I'd guess the staff had a bit more to do with preparation than normal. If so, they're simply not ready, and this is where I think some cross-pollination on the coaching staff would be really helpful. Luckily K is getting that through the Olympics but it isn't enough.

We looked exhausted. What happened to the benefits of that deep bench, the vaunted conditioning program (anyone remember that pic in Duke Mag of DeMarcus on the exercise bike with the ventilator-type thing)?

Just think - one more missed 3, or if Taylor King's short off-balance jumper doesn't go... ? Criminy.

Shall we be happy to in the top 32 teams left?

after all that, I am. I would not bet on us Saturday, the way we've played down the stretch, but I will root hard and hope for better things.

dukestheheat
03-20-2008, 08:41 PM
Big time players step up in the crunch time. Ladies and Gentleman, I think Gerald Henderson has arrived...

to go over and pick up Markie and make sure he's on the bus with the rest of the Duke team! We need Markie and we won't advance without him and Singler picking it up two notches AT LEAST.

Our adjustment for Saturday will have to be monumental. I have never seen Duke get outplayed like they did tonight by a team I have never even heard of! That was an amazing performance by Belmont, simply amazing. We looked stunned virtually the whole game.

dth.

77devil
03-20-2008, 08:41 PM
6 for 21 from behind the arc will not get it done.

grossbus
03-20-2008, 08:41 PM
i think we have five key guys on offense,

paulus, singler, nelson, henderson, scheyer.

back when we were #2 in the country, four of these guys did well on offense in each game. not always the same four, but four.

starting with the wake loss, it seems as if we have trouble getting good games on offense out of more than two. some times one will have a good half and a bad half and another, the opposite.

i contend that we aren't going to win unless we get to four or three for the whole game.

i am not confident that will happen saturday.

91_92_01_10_15
03-20-2008, 08:41 PM
Congratulations to G and Duke on a great victory under incredible game pressure.

SMO
03-20-2008, 08:43 PM
I'm waiting for the real DeMarcus Nelson to strip off his mask and come out and play. Surely tonight that was an imposter disguised as Nelson. We need a Scoobie Doo or Mission Impossible style unmasking.

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 08:43 PM
I am almost embarrassed that we won. Where was Nelson? Does he have the flu? Hendo was wonderful, Paulus, Scheyer and Singler fine. Everybody else -- where were they?
I would expect to see Belmont changing up to a better conference. They did a very, very nice job, and if they had won, would have deserved it.
We escaped one.

Scheyer was fine. Hendo was wonderful (thank goodness!)

can't say I agree with your assessment of the other two players you mentioned.

Kyle shot the ball better today but looked tentative at times, especially in the 2nd half, when he faded into obscurity, really.

Paulus made some big plays, as he almost always does, but he also struggled mightily against pressure, forced some shots really early in possessions and was ineffective at running the offense to the point that K had to take over calling the plays and directing things explicitly from the sideline.

He really did not have a good game. I want to add that he did contribute, at least. He scored in double figures, as usual, and contributed some big hustle plays, as usual. But I can't praise his play in this one otherwise.

bluepenguin
03-20-2008, 08:44 PM
I'm sorry, but that is just ridiculous. We got more questionable calls in our favor than against. It was a fairly well officiated game and we played scared and they played with courage.
We had to be watching different games. I was aghast at how much physical contact Belmont was allowed to get away with. At one point, i found myself saying to the scorer's table: "How badly do you want Belmont to win?"

Belmont played a fantastic game. But teams always bring their A game to Duke, so that should be no surprise. Time for Duke to bring its A game.

NEXT PLAY.

fan345678
03-20-2008, 08:46 PM
We did not get calls. We did not get calls. That game was one of the mostly poorly officiated games I've ever seen.

On a separate note, no two seed should ever need to get calls to beat a fifteen. Some very poor non-calls went against Duke, but they should not have needed them.

I think this is the issue.

A team like Belmont certainly looks like the quicker team when its guards are allowed to use their hands any way they want on defense.

Sheesh...

Of course, Duke never tried to see if they'd get the same benefit the other way.

graybead
03-20-2008, 08:47 PM
There is nothing you can say to convince me the official made the right call on that play. I know the officials swallow the whistle at the end of the game but that was a very bad call/no call/jumpball.

:confused: I better not hear that comment anymore. I know a lot of you have been saying the officials were not that bad. Well, I rewound this game on my DVR more times than I can count. I kept thinking I saw something wrong.

I played the over-the-back at the end in slow motion and it was absolutely ridiculous. I had to call my dad to see if they did away with the over the back call and I didn't hear about it. If there was EVER over the back - that was it. Absolutely pathetic. Officials have been horrendous already and it's Day 1.

I'm not sure who this Duke loss would have been more embarrasing for - Duke fans, Demarcus Nelson and his last game at Duke, or the people wearing the black and white stripes.

All that said is not to take away from Belmont. They played an amazing game.

beach rev
03-20-2008, 08:49 PM
EarlJam has it right - survive and advance. I wouldn't be surprised if we win on Saturday by 10. It's all about matching up.

ChiDevil
03-20-2008, 08:49 PM
Ok, so many if not most of us are kinda "embarrassed" at winning this game. I can understand that sentiment. But there is a thing called "survive and advance" and I personally feel that's what should be emphasized at this point. If we go on a run and reach the Final Four, no one will be talking about being embarrassed any more than UCLA in '95.

Survive and Advance . . . and learn something about knowing how to win when it counts and in the clutch. Let's chalk it off to a team that hasn't had much NCAA tournament success learning what it feels like. Winning in the tourney is different than winning in regular season. Maybe they'll catch the bug and keep on going :)

Enough on the calls already . . . If I were Belmont, I'd be saying that Henderson charged on his awesome drive at the end (NO, I don't think he did) Surviving calls is just part of the game.

GO DUKE!!!!

wiscodevil
03-20-2008, 08:50 PM
when a team does the same thing over and over and over, you have to adjust. we didn't. not sure why, but we didn't.

that said, i think duke played with some real guts and heart. they just couldn't stop belmont from hitting the big shot for whatever reason.

i like this team a lot more when they pass the ball around instead of the dribble drive for the shot.

houstondukie
03-20-2008, 08:51 PM
i think we have five key guys on offense,

paulus, singler, nelson, henderson, scheyer.

back when we were #2 in the country, four of these guys did well on offense in each game. not always the same four, but four.

starting with the wake loss, it seems as if we have trouble getting good games on offense out of more than two. some times one will have a good half and a bad half and another, the opposite.

i contend that we aren't going to win unless we get to four or three for the whole game.

i am not confident that will happen saturday.

I don't think offense is our problem. We are at our best when we create baskets off our defense. Tonight and in our losses we flat out stunk on defense.

cspan37421
03-20-2008, 08:51 PM
This just in:

All Duke players will be sporting a brace on their shooting hand for Saturday's game.

rsvman
03-20-2008, 08:51 PM
I'm just glad DangerMouse didn't have to end his stellar career with that game.

The "held ball" call was atrocious.

Somehow I knew DM would miss the front end of that one-and-one, and that upsets me.

Belmont had absolutely NO ANSWER for the amazing Gerald Henderson.

I sure hope Coach K has as much Purell as Gatorade behind the bench. The last thing we need is for everybody on the team to catch whatever virus he has.

NEXT PLAY!

dukestheheat
03-20-2008, 08:52 PM
when a team does the same thing over and over and over, you have to adjust. we didn't. not sure why, but we didn't.

that said, i think duke played with some real guts and heart. they just couldn't stop belmont from hitting the big shot for whatever reason.

i like this team a lot more when they pass the ball around instead of the dribble drive for the shot.

(I'm not doubting what you're saying, I'm just trying to find out what you saw, how it was playing out, and what you'd have done to fix it!).

Thanks,

dth.

moonpie23
03-20-2008, 08:53 PM
this game will either shake them out of their doldrums, or bury them on saturday....

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 08:54 PM
I think this is the issue.

A team like Belmont certainly looks like the quicker team when its guards are allowed to use their hands any way they want on defense.

Sheesh...

Of course, Duke never tried to see if they'd get the same benefit the other way.


All right, the terping is beginning to grate on me. Belmont's guards didn't just look quicker than ours tonight. Let's give credit where it's due. Belmont is an excellent team and we are dayumm lucky not to have to watch them play on Saturday.

gofurman
03-20-2008, 08:54 PM
Hope all the ACC does great:

Go UNC, Duke, Clemson, Miami (yeah, I know that is different than most on this board :)

On tonights game why Belmont probably was legit:

- Did anyone in the ACC do as good a job on back-door cuts as Belmont? Really? EVERYONE knows the Devils overplay passing lanes and yet I haven't seen anyone in the ACC do the back-door as crisp as tonight's Bruins... crazy

- Did anyone in the ACC hold DeMarcus Nelson to TWO points? I haven't seen that kind of defense on him all year. He is a nard-nosed tough gaurd and they shut him down.

-- Whether or not DeMarcus Nelson deserved ACC Defensive player of the year -> he is at least one of the top 5 D players in the league and their guard (name?) kept blowing by him like he was standing still. I don't remember anyone getting by Nelson that easily in the ACC. Lawson is probably closest but that Bruin gaurd was crazy fast

-- Crazy thing is, Duke shut down Belmont's top two scorers and yet they had others step up. 15 seeds almost always need great games from their best players (Hare and ?).

ForeverBlowingBubbles
03-20-2008, 08:56 PM
There were some bad calls in the game, but none as bad as when Paulus's foot was clearly out of bounds when he tried to save it - should have been Belmonts ball. If it had gone to Belmont - we probably would have lost.

Sorry if no one wanted to read that - just a glass half empty kinda game for me.

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 08:56 PM
This just in:

All Duke players will be sporting a brace on their shooting hand for Saturday's game.

Thanks cspan, I needed a laugh and you just provided it.:D

BuschDevil
03-20-2008, 08:57 PM
Thank You, Gerald Henderson!!!!

G did a little stat sheet stuffing tonight (21 pts, 8 rbs, 5 steals, 3 assists...) & its a good thing, too... he willed us to victory.

We did not play as we would have liked, but you gotta give Belmont credit as they probably had more to do with our bad play than we did.

Survive & advance.

GO DUKE!!!!

wiscodevil
03-20-2008, 08:58 PM
(I'm not doubting what you're saying, I'm just trying to find out what you saw, how it was playing out, and what you'd have done to fix it!).

Thanks,

dth.

i think, in general K has his guys play harder on every possession than anyone in the country. which is a good thing. he believes a suffocating, overplaying, man-to-man is the "right way to play". you can't really argue with the results. i just think he can be too stubborn and not make in-game changes. so many of their baskets were a result of our overplaying the passing lanes. against some teams i think you're better off to play to their weaknesses not your strengths.

just my opinion.

Ann Arbor Devil
03-20-2008, 09:01 PM
As an alum of U-M and Duke, I almost lived through arguably the 2 most embarrassing losses in college football/b-ball history this year...first App St and now Belmont. These guys lost to Kennesaw St for the love of God!

But maybe now we will play as if the weight of the world is not on our shoulders.

Very disappointed in the lack of in-game adjustments by K and staff. Continuing to rely on jacking up 3s was not what we needed when guys like Singler and Markie should have been able to score in the paint.

Chard
03-20-2008, 09:01 PM
OK, what does that mean? This is the ncaa tournament. You think we'll get a cupcake next?

It means that Duke won't see another team that can put five three point shooters on the floor. It means that Duke won't see a team that has started 10 players this season. If you see one in Duke's bracket let me know.

Saratoga2
03-20-2008, 09:02 PM
Survive and Advance . . . and learn something about knowing how to win when it counts and in the clutch. Let's chalk it off to a team that hasn't had much NCAA tournament success learning what it feels like. Winning in the tourney is different than winning in regular season. Maybe they'll catch the bug and keep on going :)

Enough on the calls already . . . If I were Belmont, I'd be saying that Henderson charged on his awesome drive at the end (NO, I don't think he did) Surviving calls is just part of the game.

GO DUKE!!!!

Forget whining about calls. Come on guys, we had players in the game that didn't contribute much on offense or defense. It is tough to win under those circumstances. The same was true against UNC and Clemson. It is not a matter of coming out and playing harder, it is playing smarter that the team needs to accomplish.

Nelson has had a couple of stinker games now in the last few and Thomas seems to be regressing after looking very good in a couple of games late in the season. Are they sick or not using their heads. Our starters really don't get a good start game after game, leaving us in the position of having the reserves to come in and right the ship. Should the starting 5 be changed?

The players that have looked best at the end of the season are Scheyer, Henderson, Paulus, Singler to some degree and Zoubek with Smith and McClure. Clearly there needs to be contributions from all the players if we are to advance. I wish I knew the answer, but staying with a guy that is having a stinker of a game may not be the best strategy.

CarrotTD
03-20-2008, 09:03 PM
i think, in general K has his guys play harder on every possession than anyone in the country. which is a good thing. he believes a suffocating, overplaying, man-to-man is the "right way to play". you can't really argue with the results. i just think he can be too stubborn and not make in-game changes. so many of their baskets were a result of our overplaying the passing lanes. against some teams i think you're better off to play to their weaknesses not your strengths.

just my opinion.

Completely agree on all counts. I think if Duke had played straight up defense the entire game we would have saw a comfortable victory.

I've been saying this for a while - there is such a thing as a mid-game adjustment. I know that K likes to go with his system and what's been working, but when it's not working I think you need to at least try something else.

BigDuke6
03-20-2008, 09:04 PM
There were some bad calls in the game, but none as bad as when Paulus's foot was clearly out of bounds when he tried to save it - should have been Belmonts ball. If it had gone to Belmont - we probably would have lost.

Sorry if no one wanted to read that - just a glass half empty kinda game for me.

Sure we can go tit for tat. The ball that Scheyer somehow threw out of bounds was the wrong call too. However, at the end of the game the blown over the back call was a result of poor officiating. The one official that blew his whistle on that play got it wrong but at least he blew his whistle. I think officiating in general is inconsistent at the end of the game and they make such a conscious effort as to not decide the outcome they often fail.

Just my opinion.

DukeCO2009
03-20-2008, 09:05 PM
I'm waiting for the real DeMarcus Nelson to strip off his mask and come out and play. Surely tonight that was an imposter disguised as Nelson. We need a Scoobie Doo or Mission Impossible style unmasking.

I don't know, man. I hate to come down on him becaus he's been so crucial to our success during many stretches this season, but DeMarcus has never really been known for anything but defense and rebounding. He was a servicable offensive player his first two years and the default option last year after Josh, but all the while he's, in my opinion, frequently made quite bad decisions with the ball--be it an errant pass, an avoidable charge, or an ill-advised pull-up jumper. This year he really started to live up to his potential, which made me happy for him because it's clear that he truly cares about the team. His offensive game finally began to approach the consistency of his defensive and glass games, and he became--along with Greg--one of our rocks. That said, he seems to be regressing at the wrong time of the year. He was non-existent against Carolina, was very hit-or-miss against Clemson, and was, frankly, not good at all tonight. If he's going to make statements as bold as his Championship prediction in his speech to the students after the Carolina game, he's going to have to back them up with his play. Thus far, he hasn't. Here's hoping he does, because without him I think we're in for a rough go of things.

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 09:05 PM
It means that Duke won't see another team that can put five three point shooters on the floor. It means that Duke won't see a team that has started 10 players this season. If you see one in Duke's bracket let me know.

You're right. we won't see another team that is precisely like Belmont. But my point is, do you really think that, in itself, is a boon to us. Whatever types of teams we face from here on, the one thing you can be certain of is that they will be quality opponents. And, IMO, Belmont gave us fits because they were good and we failed to make adjustments, not because they were just so perfectly suited to play us that we were set up to fail. In fact, with belmont's dependence on the 3 and lack of inside scoring, in theory, they should have been an easier matchup for us than other types of teams.

So I don't understand how not facing another team constructed exactly like them is all that great for our chances.

MarkD83
03-20-2008, 09:09 PM
Now that I can breath again, survive and advance is the name of the game in the NCAAs. Someone mentioned UCLA in 95, but there have been other teams that have had close games and turned things around.

I will enjoy the fact that there is another Duke game on Sat.

One thing I did notice is that Duke only had 9 assists and 14 turnovers. If we want to look for something that is different from early in the year and now it is that ratio.

diesel
03-20-2008, 09:10 PM
In all the time I’ve spent on DBR, I can’t recall as much terping about the refs as I’ve seen tonight! This is not a quality that endears itself to me.

Why take anything away from Belmont? That is a very well coached team and Coach Byrd can obviously recruit as well. I’m forced to wonder why he isn’t at a bigger school.

And I go back to my earlier post in that I don’t think we played badly in the first half. For instance, we rebounded then better than I can recall in any other game and we scored many points in the paint.

At any event, survive and advance. Next play!

Classof06
03-20-2008, 09:11 PM
Personally, I think Duke just got a taste of its own medicine. We faced a team very similar to us and they reminded us why we're now 28-5: our style is pretty hard to defend. We don't do all the back-cutting but like Belmont, we mostly play 5 perimeter players at one time and it causes other teams fits.

I don't expect Duke to play this bad again and I don't envision us going 6-21 from 3 again, either. I think we should do well next game but we shall see.

arnie
03-20-2008, 09:12 PM
I am very disappointed in the performance tonite - we probably should have lost. I don't know what has happened to Nelson, but we need him badly. Seems like we just aren't as quick as we were earlier and of course our big men just haven't developed very far in two years.

Lot of weird thoughts during the game, comparing our performance to some of Arizona's teams in the 90's. Maybe we bust out on Saturday, but I don't feel it!

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 09:13 PM
Now that I can breath again, survive and advance is the name of the game in the NCAAs. Someone mentioned UCLA in 95, but there have been other teams that have had close games and turned things around.

I will enjoy the fact that there is another Duke game on Sat.

One thing I did notice is that Duke only had 9 assists and 14 turnovers. If we want to look for something that is different from early in the year and now it is that ratio.

Our point guard's A/to ratio was 1 to 3 and we took half the shot clock or more to get into our offense on many occasions.

OK, that's the easy part, identifying the problem? Anyone have thoughts on how we fix it?

freedevil
03-20-2008, 09:15 PM
I've got to disagree with those who think the referees had anything to do with this performance. This team played flat. Utterly and completely flat.

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 09:18 PM
Personally, I think Duke just got a taste of its own medicine. We faced a team very similar to us and they reminded us why we're now 28-5: our style is pretty hard to defend. We don't do all the back-cutting but like Belmont, we mostly play 5 perimeter players at one time and it causes other teams fits.

I don't expect Duke to play this bad again and I don't envision us going 6-21 from 3 again, either. I think we should do well next game but we shall see.


Why is the assumption always that 3pt shooting will just turn itself around all by itself whenever we shoot a poor percentage? I truly don't understand this train of thought. We've had three games in a row now against quality opponents, and the threes haven't been falling in any of those contests. Where is the evidence that this trend will reverse itself in our next start?

BD80
03-20-2008, 09:18 PM
No one has talked about how god-awful the coaching was in this game. A senile announcer figured out that Duke should've stopped overplaying on Defense before our entire staff did, i.e. about 10 minutes into the game.

That announcer is Bob Wenzel, former Duke assistant coach and a great guy even if it sounds like he left behind any allegiance to Duke a lloonnggg time ago.

Lets hope the team showers fast and goes out to congratulate the winner of the second game tonight, thusly transferring to them whatever virus made us play like caca tonight.

The refs had NOTHING to do with the outcome tonight. Hopefully Saturday will be better.

jjasper0729
03-20-2008, 09:18 PM
I thought when we got up 10, we went into a play not to lose mode rather than an attack mode. They started to body up on us on offense and they wanted the ball more than we did. Noone wanted to go to the basket and get fouls on their two big guys. That's what WE do, not other teams. WE push people out 30 feet. And why were we so tired in the last five minutes? I thought playing 2 games in the past 10-11 days would have made us fresher.

topps coach
03-20-2008, 09:18 PM
Just now able to get my heart started again. Belmont was fantastic. Thank god for GH. I don't think we 'll play this poorly again and u have to win a game like this to advance. It has to get better after this.

DoubleDuke Dad
03-20-2008, 09:18 PM
We had to be watching different games. I was aghast at how much physical contact Belmont was allowed to get away with. At one point, i found myself saying to the scorer's table: "How badly do you want Belmont to win?"

Belmont played a fantastic game. But teams always bring their A game to Duke, so that should be no surprise. Time for Duke to bring its A game.

NEXT PLAY.
It appears that teams have figured out that the way to beat Duke is to play very physically against them. If the refs do not call fouls we are not able to run our offense.

mgtr
03-20-2008, 09:18 PM
Yes, I think it is a copout to blame the refs. If we were an 8 vs a 9 seed, maybe a little bad refereeing would matter. But a 15-2? We were just outplayed for most of the game, no excuses.

bluepenguin
03-20-2008, 09:20 PM
All right, the terping is beginning to grate on me. Don't mean to nitpick, but I thought "terping" was blaming the officials for a loss.

dukestheheat
03-20-2008, 09:21 PM
I've got to disagree with those who think the referees had anything to do with this performance. This team played flat. Utterly and completely flat.

If we had lost the game tonight, we must remember that teams don't lose because of 'calls'. Teams lose because they don't play through 'calls' that are a part of every game ever played. NO GAME is ever perfectly called.

Winners never worry about calls deciding the outcome of ball games. Winners work to find a way to get through calls; Duke does this, we should all continue to take the lead of the team. Duke has done this for as long as I can remember it.

It's uncomfortable to see and admit that Duke was totally outplayed tonight and it's easier to blame a referee for what is seen. Sure, there were bad calls going down the stretch but again, these go both ways (always) and the winner works to get through them.

Next play! Thank Goodness. I almost died and I almost killed my television, I am not kidding.

dukestheheat

chrisheery
03-20-2008, 09:21 PM
Stop trying to "establish the post" with guys that are not good at posting up. I think zoub will offer that at some point, but now is not the time to try to develop him further.

Play all guards and singler and thomas/mclure to spell him at times. We need to get back to driving specifically to kick it out. That throws the other teams defense out of whack. It turns them inside out. Even when we miss in those situations, offensive rebounds are available. After we make a few of those in good rhythm, the lanes open back up. The key is to drive to a spot from which open three point shooters can be passed to. Demarcus will play better again when he has lanes to go through. He won't get them until he makes everyone else better. Obviously, Henderson is figuring that out. We need everyone to figure it out. fast.

norduck
03-20-2008, 09:21 PM
As an alum of U-M and Duke, I almost lived through arguably the 2 most embarrassing losses in college football/b-ball history this year...first App St and now Belmont. These guys lost to Kennesaw St for the love of God!

But maybe now we will play as if the weight of the world is not on our shoulders.

Very disappointed in the lack of in-game adjustments by K and staff. Continuing to rely on jacking up 3s was not what we needed when guys like Singler and Markie should have been able to score in the paint.

GW beating KY is the most embarrassing loss in b-ball this season. BTW, Belmont beat GW 2X in regular season.

beltwayBD
03-20-2008, 09:22 PM
My three or four cents.

1) Perhaps the most biased commentating I have ever seen during a Duke game. They were so excited when Belmont was hitting the threes!!!

2) Zoub is not ready for prime time. I love the guy, but he should not have been in there against a Duke-offense clone team. They shoot threes, and they do backdoor cuts. Zoub can't defend against either. They do the cuts way better than us, frankly.

3) I think DeMarcus had the flu. Seriously, maybe he caught it from K.

4) On the officiating. We may have gotten a call at the end, but they definitely got a few earlier.

5) Thank God we won. I had to have one beer to calm me down, and another to celebrate once we won.

mgtr
03-20-2008, 09:23 PM
Amd the official Duke motto is ------- survive and advance. Ultimately, that is all that matters.

KandG
03-20-2008, 09:25 PM
I am just trying to figure out what the heck happened to our defense. Last year our defensive effectiveness went south toward the end of the season, but that was a less talented, less experienced team.

This is still a very young team, but it is shocking to see how much slower they look on defense, and how they just don't seem to communicate on D the way they did earlier in the season. Belmont was raining 3s, they were killing us on backdoors, and guys like Renfroe were just slicing past defenders like swiss cheese. I did not recognize the team on the floor tonight.

I'd like to believe the nerves of some of our players (not naming names) had some impact, and I sure hope that Saturday we are much, much better.

feldspar
03-20-2008, 09:26 PM
I don't envision us going 6-21 from 3 again, either.

Why not? It's not like it's the first time (or the second...or third) we've shot poorly from outside.

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 09:26 PM
Don't mean to nitpick, but I thought "terping" was blaming the officials for a loss.



you may be right. I don't know what Hoyle says on that.

mgtr
03-20-2008, 09:27 PM
I am on my third screwdriver, and still not very calm. We were probably lucky to win, but a win is a win. I hope we have learned from this close call, and are better prepared for Saturday.

BigDuke6
03-20-2008, 09:27 PM
I've got to disagree with those who think the referees had anything to do with this performance. This team played flat. Utterly and completely flat.

First, let me say that I have not mentioned bad officiating and our performance in the same post.

Second, I do belive that we played poorly indifferent of the officiating. 6 for 21 from three point range, Nelson 2pts : 4 fouls : not sure how many minutes but he logged a few, another night of no factors in Thomas, King, Smith,etc.. all speak for them selves. This team played poorly and we were lucky to win. Thank you Mr. Henderson!

I have only been commenting on one play and one play only. Did it determine the outcome of the game? No. Could it have? Yes, it could have changed the outcome but not the way we played.

dukeisawesome
03-20-2008, 09:27 PM
All the negative stuff has been said, but on the bright side I got a bigger "high" off this victory than any victory in recent memory...maybe all the way back to '01 Championship game.

TwoDukeTattoos
03-20-2008, 09:29 PM
Actually, I have only one thing to say and I didn't even require time to cool off. In the late Volvano's words: Survive and advance. And in K's words, next play. Go Duke.

RelativeWays
03-20-2008, 09:29 PM
Knowing the mods are watching this thread like hungry buzzards hovering a dead carcass, I will say that I am quite disappointed in our teams effort and lack of leadership. This team is capable of much much more than this. That said, I still love Duke and I will hope for the best on Saturday.

[Hungry buzzards don't hover over dead carcasses - just the almost dead ones!]

SMO
03-20-2008, 09:29 PM
It appears that teams have figured out that the way to beat Duke is to play very physically against them. If the refs do not call fouls we are not able to run our offense.

You're right, and the way the other games I've seen today have gone, it's going to be a physical tournament. I think it's sad to see clear fouls go uncalled as it punishes the more skilled teams. I hope the NCAA takes this seriously and looks to call games more closely next year.

***I AM MAKING THIS POINT ABOUT MORE THAN THE DUKE GAME AND NOT BLAMING RESULTS OF ANY SPECIFIC GAME ON OFFICIATING***

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 09:30 PM
All the negative stuff has been said, but on the bright side I got a bigger "high" off this victory than any victory in recent memory...maybe all the way back to '01 Championship game.

Really? Wow. Why?

dukeENG2003
03-20-2008, 09:30 PM
Yes, I think it is a copout to blame the refs. If we were an 8 vs a 9 seed, maybe a little bad refereeing would matter. But a 15-2? We were just outplayed for most of the game, no excuses.

I don't think anybody is blaming the referees for the outcome. The outcome was still correct IMO, we are a better team, and we made enough plays to win the game [barely]. I still think that it should have been a larger margin than it was though if the level of contact was called consistently for both teams. They committed WAY more than 4 fouls than us (which was the actual margin as called). I think we can all agree (even sandinmyshoes) sthat it was at LEAST 21-18 (the over the back "jump ball"). IMO, it should have been ~23 fouls for Duke and 24 for Belmont, which would have had a considerable effect on the final score.

As I said in my original post, and as others have said, I mean in no way to take away from the aggressive way that Belmont played. They played a HELL of a game, and you can't blame THEM for playing physically and not getting called for fouls, but I calls them as I sees them. I wonder whether they were truly deserving of a 15 seed. . .

dukestheheat
03-20-2008, 09:31 PM
I am on my third screwdriver, and still not very calm. We were probably lucky to win, but a win is a win. I hope we have learned from this close call, and are better prepared for Saturday.

(I love your post by the way....'third screwdriver....').

We had to hit the LOTTO to win this one, and it happened. I am going to have trouble getting to sleep tonight thinking about this one. Probably wake up fifteen times exhorting the guys to play defense and calling a play or something like that.

dukestheheat

arnie
03-20-2008, 09:31 PM
Stop trying to "establish the post" with guys that are not good at posting up. I think zoub will offer that at some point, but now is not the time to try to develop him further.

Play all guards and singler and thomas/mclure to spell him at times. We need to get back to driving specifically to kick it out. That throws the other teams defense out of whack. It turns them inside out. Even when we miss in those situations, offensive rebounds are available. After we make a few of those in good rhythm, the lanes open back up. The key is to drive to a spot from which open three point shooters can be passed to. Demarcus will play better again when he has lanes to go through. He won't get them until he makes everyone else better. Obviously, Henderson is figuring that out. We need everyone to figure it out. fast.

Exactly - we basically get nothing from the post - go back to what works.

dukeisawesome
03-20-2008, 09:32 PM
Completely agree on all counts. I think if Duke had played straight up defense the entire game we would have saw a comfortable victory.

I've been saying this for a while - there is such a thing as a mid-game adjustment. I know that K likes to go with his system and what's been working, but when it's not working I think you need to at least try something else.

Agreed completely. K is still stubborn although some credit must be given to the fact that he plays a little zone now and then. Coach is pretty much a genius on in-bounds and set-plays so I have no doubt if he'd make some defensive adjustments on the fly it would be just as effective.

ArkieDukie
03-20-2008, 09:34 PM
Belmont may have lost to Kennesaw State, but they also beat both Alabama and Cincinnati earlier in the season. They weren't exactly an easy out for Duke. Belmont played a solid game and deserved to win. We got lucky.

It's easy for us to blame the coaches for not making adjustments, but are we so sure that the coaches DIDN'T try to make the adjustments? Toward the end of this game I was having flashbacks to the NC State game. Remember that one? The players weren't doing what the coaches wanted them to do on offense. They were throwing up 3s as quickly as possible and not passing the ball around. The comeback started when they started setting up shots.

dukeisawesome
03-20-2008, 09:37 PM
Really? Wow. Why?

I can't remember a more emotional victory. My heart was pounding, I seriously thought we were going to lose a loss so devastating it would be the worst loss in our history....then we pull it out and win! Victory pulled from the jaws of defeat! Sometimes you just gotta relax and enjoy the emotions of the game...we don't know how this tournament is going to work out regardless of how good or bad we play in the first round.

gofurman
03-20-2008, 09:37 PM
A few other thoughts:

Paulus was really exposed on D tonight. I know he is limited athletically some but their gaurds went by him (and a lot of our guys) like they were standing still. Also, Paulus usually brings two things:

1) steady hand/cerebral game

2) three shooting

I guess teh three shooting was there some but the steadying influence was GONE... K was having to call the plays...Even when Paulus is outquicked on D he can usually run the O but not tonight...

TwoDukeTattoos
03-20-2008, 09:38 PM
Actually, I have only one thing to say and I didn't even require time to cool off. In the late Valvano's words: Survive and advance. And in K's words, next play. Go Duke.

devildownunder
03-20-2008, 09:39 PM
I can't remember a more emotional victory. My heart was pounding, I seriously thought we were going to lose a loss so devastating it would be the worst loss in our history....then we pull it out and win! Victory pulled from the jaws of defeat! Sometimes you just gotta relax and enjoy the emotions of the game...we don't know how this tournament is going to work out regardless of how good or bad we play in the first round.

that's true. thanks for answering.

beltwayBD
03-20-2008, 09:39 PM
I am on my third screwdriver, and still not very calm. We were probably lucky to win, but a win is a win. I hope we have learned from this close call, and are better prepared for Saturday.

Damn, I haven't had a screwdriver since undergrad (that was....hmmm, 9 years ago...). :D

Our defense was pretty ill. It didn't remind me of our terrible defense at the end of last season (as someone suggested). That was more...exhausted. This looked more...clueless.

I was shocked to see that we had more rebounds that Belmont. I don't remember getting many second chances, in particular.

_Gary
03-20-2008, 09:39 PM
Belmont seemed to be eerily similar to VCU last year in that with both teams they spread us out with great ball handlers and 5 guys who could shoot the long ball. I'm not sure if we will see this type of team again, at least within the West bracket. My contention is that this was a perfect storm type game where pretty much everything that could go right for Belmont did and everything that could go wrong for Duke did. Perhaps we will not have another perfect storm scenario for this tournament. I hope we don't. But survive and advance must be our motto. Remember, I've predicted that we will go to the Final Four. So everyone just calm down and enjoy the ride. I was calm throughout myself. :D

If I predicted it, you know it's going to happen. :p

dukeisawesome
03-20-2008, 09:40 PM
We won, enjoy it!

Is anyone else like me and on a complete high right now (from the win, nothing else) or is everyone stressing out? This was better than a 30-point rout in some ways.

Pernell
03-20-2008, 09:41 PM
DukeCo2009....

I agree with everything you said regarding the team needing to man-up and Demarcus' progress or perhaps regression. I feel for the guy so I'm not going to even really go there with his performances. I guess quite frankly, after four years, he is who he is.

One thing that I noticed during a couple of the timeouts around the 4/3 minute mark, Wojo was going berserk. I wish they had him miked up but I'm sure he said something to get them rallied up and get in their @#$. Again, Gerald's heart was critical.

But as another poster stated, win and advance....

dukechem
03-20-2008, 09:41 PM
... I wonder whether they were truly deserving of a 15 seed. . .

I think the bigger question is whether we were deserving of a 2 seed, and I think the answer is obvious.

Does anyone know if some of the team did have the flu tonight? I hope so, because there is little cause for optimism on Saturday without some explanation.

OldPhiKap
03-20-2008, 09:42 PM
Survive and advance.

Belmont plays a Duke-style game, and played the game of its life. Kudos to them.

In the tourney, you play a bunch of different styles. The champ is the one who can manage them all, and get a little luck along the way.

I've been lucky enough to see us beat the unbeatable (Marc Macon and Temple; UNLV) and lose to those we should beat. That's the fun of the tourney.

Win the next, and advance to the next four team tourney.

I, for one, am proud to win this one and glad to move on. Anyone who wants to sit on the side of the road and mope is welcome to do so, but please keep it to yourself.

-- OPK

diesel
03-20-2008, 09:43 PM
I may be a results player, but we did win this game!

And I was thinking that I really do appreciate the format of the NCAAs and how it introduces one to schools on has seldom heard of and that are under appreciated. Belmont has earned my respect after this game.

In similar fashion, I recall being impressed by Delaware State when we played them in the 2005 NCAAs. They played well and were obviously well coached. Indeed, I’ve often wondered how Coach Jackson’s son fared after his operation in the Duke Medical Center.

Admittedly, however, we won the Delaware State game by a more comfortable margin than our margin tonight!

But a W is still a W and better than the alternative. Next play!

gofurman
03-20-2008, 09:44 PM
More thougts:

Zoub and Thomas are not ready for the big time... Zoub I can understand (though tonight was his chance against a small team) but Thomas has had enough PT now to be doing better than traveling so blatantly. Even I know you can't catch the ball and take three steps...

*I thought - mistakenly - Duke might be able to be 'rested' going into the next game. Boy was I wrong there... ONe of the advantages of being a high-seed is hoping for a blow out where you can sit starters. "We" didn't get that

CatfiveCane
03-20-2008, 09:44 PM
EarlJam has it right - survive and advance. I wouldn't be surprised if we win on Saturday by 10. It's all about matching up.

and we match-up poorly against Belmont???

HDB
03-20-2008, 09:45 PM
They played earlier this year and Xavier won in a real nail biter --- 90 - 49. Yowza!!

Jarhead
03-20-2008, 09:48 PM
I disagree, although I was talking about questionable calls. But there were also a lot of instances where the ball bounced our way. I remember one possession by Belmont where the ball was almost snagged by three of their guys at three different points and finally ended up in Singler's hands, and his heel was hovering above endline. If he had rocked back he'd have been out of bounds. I nearly had three heart attacks on that one sequence, and when I saw his foot I nearly had an out of body experience because I just knew he was going to rock back to throw and outlet pass. Thankfully, he did not and I came back to this world. :o
Would not have happened as you suggested. His heel was suspended over the line, and if he had rocked back a call should have been made, but all three officials were looking down court. They would not have seen it. He held his heel up, so it is a non-issue. No break awarded to either team.

dukeENG2003
03-20-2008, 09:50 PM
If I were Belmont, I'd be saying that Henderson charged on his awesome drive at the end

most ridiculous comment of the night, watch it again, nobody even remotely attempted to draw a charge. I know I took your parenthetical quote at the end off, but using this statement to say that people were incorrect in criticizing the refs is absurd. If I'm missing something, and Belmont fans are actually complaining about the refs, please let me know, but I seriously doubt this is the case.

DoubleDuke Dad
03-20-2008, 09:52 PM
Our D wasn't anything to write home about; however that being said we only allowed Belmont to score 70 points. it was our O that almost cost us the game. There is no way that we should only score 71 points against Belmont.

HateCarolina
03-20-2008, 09:54 PM
We won, enjoy it!

Is anyone else like me and on a complete high right now (from the win, nothing else) or is everyone stressing out? This was better than a 30-point rout in some ways.

I could not agree more...thank gosh we won and I think/hope it will make us better. With that said..Craig Whettel (sp?) needs not do "color" for any more games against (with emphasis on against!!!) Duke.

BigDuke6
03-20-2008, 09:54 PM
most ridiculous comment of the night, watch it again, nobody even remotely attempted to draw a charge.

I am glad that Henderson made the game winning layup. The way he missed on that previous drive was heart breaking to have it go down and then out. And for him to drive the length of the court on our next possesion to win it shows a lot of courage. If a Belmont player would have made an attempt to draw a charge, that would be the one time a whistle wasn't swallowed.

feldspar
03-20-2008, 09:55 PM
Here's what I'm tired of. I've been hearing so much of the "X Team just played their hearts out. They played their game and matched up well with us, etc etc etc"

I've been hearing that since the middle of February, and you know what? I'm tired of playing another team's game. I'm tired of another team imposing their will on us as opposed to the other way around.

How do you change it? You change it by somehow finding a way to drill it through these guys' heads that Duke Basketball begins with DEFENSE. I've seen such unbelievable lackluster defense over the last month, and it's just not Duke basketball.

We are Duke. We impose OUR will on our opponents, not the other way around. The "they played their hearts out and we're lucky to come away with a win" argument is getting old, because WE ARE DUKE, and that's the bottom line.

I'm looking forward to the time when I see that team back on the floor. Who knows if it will be Saturday or next season. But I can't wait to see it again.

dukemsu
03-20-2008, 09:55 PM
You're right, and the way the other games I've seen today have gone, it's going to be a physical tournament. I think it's sad to see clear fouls go uncalled as it punishes the more skilled teams. I hope the NCAA takes this seriously and looks to call games more closely next year.

***I AM MAKING THIS POINT ABOUT MORE THAN THE DUKE GAME AND NOT BLAMING RESULTS OF ANY SPECIFIC GAME ON OFFICIATING***

Good disclaimer. I have been wailing about officiating on all fronts (maybe more than others as I am in Big 10 country, home of no-blood, no-foul) and I agree. The overall level of play is suffering as a result.

That said, we've got to deal with what we've got for this year. LGD.

dukemsu
03-20-2008, 09:57 PM
I am glad that Henderson made the game winning layup. The way he missed on that prvious drive was heart breaking to have it go down and then out. And for him to drive the length of the court on our next possesion to win it shows a lot of courage. If a Belmont player would have made an attempt to draw a charge, that would be the one time a whistle wasn't swallowed.

This is a really good point. G made a great drive, the shot didn't go down on the previous Duke possession.

Great heart and guts by G. To come back like that isn't easy to do, especially when you're in an arena cheering like crazy against you and you're playing hurt.

G is one tough kid.

dukechem
03-20-2008, 10:00 PM
If you're desperate for something good about this game, just be happy you got to see all 40 minutes. If it had been a blowout, CBS would have gone to another game.

Fish80
03-20-2008, 10:02 PM
Wow. Some might say we were lucky. This win wasn't lucky. The team showed a lot of guts and WON the game. They didn't hit a miracle three to win it, G hit a huge driving finger roll with 14 seconds left, D-Mark stole the inbounds pass.

Next game is next game. New day, new opponent.

The main concern at this point is the flu. I don't know how much it was affecting them today, but let's hope they're healthy Saturday.

BD80
03-20-2008, 10:02 PM
Our point guard's A/to ratio was 1 to 3 and we took half the shot clock or more to get into our offense on many occasions.

OK, that's the easy part, identifying the problem? Anyone have thoughts on how we fix it?

Don't have Paulus run the offense!!! Every time he gets the ball up top, he pulls it back and ruins any advantage we have gained from motion to that point. He is slow initiating the offense, often running us into a hurried shot to beat the clock. He was absolutely unable to beat the Belmont PG off the dribble, and thus could not generate any offense. So why start it with him???? Scheyer was MUCH more effective with the ball

SMO
03-20-2008, 10:05 PM
If you're desperate for something good about this game, just be happy you got to see all 40 minutes. If it had been a blowout, CBS would have gone to another game.

I thought it was good to see Singler hit a three and hit some mid-range jumpers. Looks like he was looking to score, not just shoot most of the time. When is the last time he shot over 50% for a game?

HateCarolina
03-20-2008, 10:06 PM
Don't have Paulus run the offense!!! Every time he gets the ball up top, he pulls it back and ruins any advantage we have gained from motion to that point. He is slow initiating the offense, often running us into a hurried shot to beat the clock. He was absolutely unable to beat the Belmont PG off the dribble, and thus could not generate any offense. So why start it with him???? Scheyer was MUCH more effective with the ball

BD80...quick hating on the kid that made shots for all us year!!

dukeENG2003
03-20-2008, 10:07 PM
If a Belmont player would have made an attempt to draw a charge, that would be the one time a whistle wasn't swallowed.

And for good reason. I'll admit, they probably COULD have drawn a charge on that play, but they definitely didn't. I'm not saying he wasn't out of control, just that nobody got themselves in position to make that play. . .

RelativeWays
03-20-2008, 10:08 PM
Here's what I'm tired of. I've been hearing so much of the "X Team just played their hearts out. They played their game and matched up well with us, etc etc etc"

I've been hearing that since the middle of February, and you know what? I'm tired of playing another team's game. I'm tired of another team imposing their will on us as opposed to the other way around.

How do you change it? You change it by somehow finding a way to drill it through these guys' heads that Duke Basketball begins with DEFENSE. I've seen such unbelievable lackluster defense over the last month, and it's just not Duke basketball.

We are Duke. We impose OUR will on our opponents, not the other way around. The "they played their hearts out and we're lucky to come away with a win" argument is getting old, because WE ARE DUKE, and that's the bottom line.

I'm looking forward to the time when I see that team back on the floor. Who knows if it will be Saturday or next season. But I can't wait to see it again.

Agreed. People forget that being Duke works two ways. Yes we are going to get the best shot from a lot of teams, but the players who wear that jersey are going to work harder, play smarter, with integrity, certainty and a tad bit of cockiness and some anger (especially after a RARE loss). The letters D-U-K-E might as well have spelled D-O-O-M. Since Redicks junior year I've seen a whole lot of the former, not much of the latter and it seems to be more pronounced each year.

I'm so tired of those people who hate us, their smarmy remarks and complete lack of respect. Its not the UNC or UMD fans, we're rivals so thats expected (and sometimes a little fun to trade barbs). I'm tired of the people who hate us with such disdain and contempt for no reaseon other than its Duke and they are mindless sheep. Even the media enjoys their pathetic jibes aimed toward us. I want Duke to shut them up with excellent plays and great wins. The players who knew what what it truly meant to be a Duke basketball player did that on a regular basis. You had to kick us in the face for 40 full minutes to win. Thats where we need to return to.

Sorry for the rant. Its probably full of inconsistencies.

Acymetric
03-20-2008, 10:11 PM
Don't have Paulus run the offense!!! Every time he gets the ball up top, he pulls it back and ruins any advantage we have gained from motion to that point. He is slow initiating the offense, often running us into a hurried shot to beat the clock. He was absolutely unable to beat the Belmont PG off the dribble, and thus could not generate any offense. So why start it with him???? Scheyer was MUCH more effective with the ball

Agreed. I've been really impressed with Scheyer when he handles the point responsibilities. Well. Not completely agreed. I do think that Paulus is a great point guard in some situations, but tonight wasn't one of them, and once Scheyer showed that he could run the game well I think we should have gone with him more. I'm not saying Paulus shouldn't be our point guard because I love the guy, but I think that some matchups lend themselves more to Scheyer (or Smith, but I think its better if he plays as more of a 2 guard for now).

Kilby
03-20-2008, 10:11 PM
Don't have Paulus run the offense!!! Every time he gets the ball up top, he pulls it back and ruins any advantage we have gained from motion to that point. He is slow initiating the offense, often running us into a hurried shot to beat the clock. He was absolutely unable to beat the Belmont PG off the dribble, and thus could not generate any offense. So why start it with him???? Scheyer was MUCH more effective with the ball

At the beginning of the season when we were discussing starters I said I could see Paulus starting at shooting guard because he is no threat with the ball and needs to receive it with space to get off the three. The only problem with starting him at the two is that it creates even more match up problems on D. Paulus did come up with one clutch stop in the last two minutes when he was guarding someone taking him down the key. PAulus is a clutch three shooter and seldom guns it when he shouldn't.

BigDuke6
03-20-2008, 10:13 PM
And for good reason. I'll admit, they probably COULD have drawn a charge on that play, but they definitely didn't. I'm not saying he wasn't out of control, just that nobody got themselves in position to make that play. . .

I agree. The opportunity was there and we are very fortunate they did not establish position. That may have been the worse defensive possession Belmont played all night. However, it ended up being a great decision by Henderson and a wonderful result. Remember how things worked at the first of the year? Driving to the basket can result in positive things happening. I get frustrated when players off the ball stand still and we just pass the ball around with no movement. Act and force the defense to react.

mapei
03-20-2008, 10:15 PM
G was incredible. He put the upperclassmen on his back and won the game. He will be a star next year, might have become one this year but for the wrist.

We got as many breaks from the refs, if not more, than they did. Without going to the line early and often in the first half, we aren't even close.

I'm just back from Verizon, and I have to say that being there - and I had "good" seats - was a horrible experience. Duke's fan support was pathetic compared to just about every other team that played in the building today, especially Georgia's, which was superb despite their team's losing effort.

And just about everybody in the building, most of whom had no idea what Belmont was or where they were from (many of them said so), was engaged in mean-spirited rooting against Duke, complaining about every call and high-fiving every play by Belmont. It was pretty miserable being a Duke fan with the combination of the team's sub-par performance and the atmosphere in the building.

I have tickets to Saturday's game, but I'm seriously considering watching on TV instead. I'm feeling really grumpy.

KandG
03-20-2008, 10:15 PM
On a tangent, the wire service story that's currently up on the Duke-Belmont game is embarrassingly small-townish and partisan. Usually, the first drafts of such stories (before the quotes from players and coaches are added) are a little rough, but the story looks like it was written for a mythical small town paper in a "Hoosiers" knock off movie.

It's fine for people to root against a program with the pedigree of Duke, and Belmont played a valiant game, but the story that's up currently wouldn't get past the editors at Belmont's own school paper, it's so bad.

dukeENG2003
03-20-2008, 10:19 PM
Enough about the officiating from me. I apologize for that, but I am serious, my wife had to tell me "calm down, you're scaring the dog" on that over the back no call. . .

Sure, we could have put them away earlier, but I couldn't help but think about what was going through G' s head when he made that play. The video K showed the night before the UNC game at home came to mind. . .

RIGHT NOW

I honestly think people do a dis-service to Belmont by not giving them some credit for this one. College basketball has changed, we lose players to the pros now too, just like everybody else (sometimes after just one year, sometimes before they even get to Duke). To expect us to dominate people like we once did is a bit unreasonable IMO.

gofurman
03-20-2008, 10:19 PM
One last thought now: What happened to all our picking off passes for easy run outs. Ever since Wake decided "no around-the-perimiter passes...just drive by tham" our easy run outs have diminished. If it is this easy, why did it take so long to figure out? Of course, Belmont went back-door and not around-the-horn so that was part of it. Hard to get run outs even if you do pick off back-door type passes.

Still, for years Duke has feasted on the passing lanes creating runouts and no one seemed able to do anything about it. Thoughts on where that went?

ajtrublu
03-20-2008, 10:21 PM
Now that my hands have stopped shaking enough for me to be able to type, I have to say how disgusted I am...disgusted at many of the posts on this thread.

It's interesting how often it's "WE ARE DUKE" when things are going well and "THEY sucked," when they're not. Yes, I'm disappointed in the play in this game, but I'm dissapointed for the team that they didn't perfom better, not in them. And yes, I'm nervous about Saturday, but I choose to focus on what an incredible season these players and coaches have given us, limitations and all, and cheer them on with optimism. I'm no Polly Anna; I'm just a fan who believes WE have what it takes and hope WE can pull it together. And if WE lose, I'll hurt for all of us — players, coaches, and fans alike. But I'll never blame and condemn members of the team. That doesn't mean I expect only positive things to ever be said. I'm frustrated that DeMarcus wasn't more effective, as I have no doubt he is. I screamed at the screen, "STOP OVERPLAYING THEM ON DEFENSE" after back door cut numbers 3, 4, 5, etc. But I'll never throw predictions of doom out there, kicking them while they're down and sending the message that their "fans" have no faith in them. You dance with the one that brung ya, folks.

Call me a snob, but I always loved this board because I felt it rose above so much of the garbage and idiotic spewing that plagues most other fan boards around. Tonight, however, I feel like there are a whole lot of people who have a whole hell of a lot to learn about supporting their team. And I'm immeasurably more disappointed in that than I am in anything the team did or didn't do on that floor.

jipops
03-20-2008, 10:23 PM
My life expectancy took a major hit tonight.

It is quite possible that a huge psychological weight was just lifted with this win. All our guys have heard and talked about during interviews the last several days are about last year's early exit vs. VCU. It's basically been lurking in their heads the entire year and I'm quite sure the thoughts crept up frequently today, even early on in the game. It actually looked like our guys just wanted this game to be over - even from the opening tip. Or maybe that's just how I felt.

A little concerned about Markie's play. Please don't be sick.

BD80
03-20-2008, 10:26 PM
BD80...quick hating on the kid that made shots for all us year!!

I didn't say bench him, I said let someone else initiate the offense when he isn't getting it done! He could not get anything started tonight, so adjust during the game. There have been games where Greg matches up well and he has successfully triggered the offense, even driving all the way to the basket, but tonight wasn't one of them. I'm not blaming Greg, I question whether the coaches could have put the team in a better position to succeed.

BobbyFan
03-20-2008, 10:28 PM
Don't have Paulus run the offense!!! Every time he gets the ball up top, he pulls it back and ruins any advantage we have gained from motion to that point. He is slow initiating the offense, often running us into a hurried shot to beat the clock. He was absolutely unable to beat the Belmont PG off the dribble, and thus could not generate any offense. So why start it with him???? Scheyer was MUCH more effective with the ball

Correct. I love the strides Paulus has made as a shooter and will never question his heart. But he rarely offers us an advantage in running the offense and creating for others. His decision making is often questionable, particularly on a fast break.

Pam
03-20-2008, 10:32 PM
I'm just back from Verizon, and I have to say that being there - and I had "good" seats - was a horrible experience. Duke's fan support was pathetic compared to just about every other team that played in the building today, especially Georgia's, which was superb despite their team's losing effort.

And just about everybody in the building, most of whom had no idea what Belmont was or where they were from (many of them said so), was engaged in mean-spirited rooting against Duke, complaining about every call and high-fiving every play by Belmont. It was pretty miserable being a Duke fan with the combination of the team's sub-par performance and the atmosphere in the building.

I have tickets to Saturday's game, but I'm seriously considering watching on TV instead. I'm feeling really grumpy.

I live in the area and seriously considered getting tickets to the games here. I am so glad I didn't - much more comfortable to watch a game like tonight's in the privacy of my own home.

Still, I am hopeful for Duke's chances going forward. The talent is there and the guys just have to believe in themselves and play DUKE basketball. I like the attitude of survive and advance. A win is a win!

tux
03-20-2008, 10:37 PM
I am just trying to figure out what the heck happened to our defense. Last year our defensive effectiveness went south toward the end of the season, but that was a less talented, less experienced team.

This is still a very young team, but it is shocking to see how much slower they look on defense, and how they just don't seem to communicate on D the way they did earlier in the season. Belmont was raining 3s, they were killing us on backdoors, and guys like Renfroe were just slicing past defenders like swiss cheese. I did not recognize the team on the floor tonight.

I'd like to believe the nerves of some of our players (not naming names) had some impact, and I sure hope that Saturday we are much, much better.

Duke's defense is high risk, high reward. So, when we face teams with good ball handlers, who don't turn it over, our aggressive defense starts to work against us. And part of that is playing a team of juniors and seniors, when Duke is starting a freshman and two sophomores. They never got rattled against our D.

I think losing on Senior Night to UNC has rattled Demarcus. He's regressing to that player who always managed to take one too many dribbles in the lane --- either charging or losing the ball.

I'm trying to think back to early in the year when we were scoring 80-90 points a game, racing up the court to attack the other team's transition defense. Now, teams are turning Duke into a half court team, and we're struggling.

DukeDevilDeb
03-20-2008, 10:40 PM
G was incredible. He put the upperclassmen on his back and won the game. He will be a star next year, might have become one this year but for the wrist.

We got as many breaks from the refs, if not more, than they did. Without going to the line early and often in the first half, we aren't even close.

I'm just back from Verizon, and I have to say that being there - and I had "good" seats - was a horrible experience. Duke's fan support was pathetic compared to just about every other team that played in the building today, especially Georgia's, which was superb despite their team's losing effort.

And just about everybody in the building, most of whom had no idea what Belmont was or where they were from (many of them said so), was engaged in mean-spirited rooting against Duke, complaining about every call and high-fiving every play by Belmont. It was pretty miserable being a Duke fan with the combination of the team's sub-par performance and the atmosphere in the building.

I have tickets to Saturday's game, but I'm seriously considering watching on TV instead. I'm feeling really grumpy.

Your experience tonight is exactly why I've made the decision not to attend tournament games... and also why I was THRILLED to hear that we would not be playing in the state of North Carolina.

We have become such a Goliath that everyone hates us regardless of how we're doing. They hate us when we're winning; they had us when we're losing. The ability to be rational and make appropriate statements somehow flies out the window when Duke basketball is the topic. Not sure all the reasons that this is true, but I do think our 25+ years of top-notch bball is a major contributor! :)

That said, I totally agree with ajtrublu in the assessment of posts on this board. Did we play poorly tonight? Absolutely. Do we hope to play better on Saturday? Absolutely. Should we berate the players and coaches about the performance? I doubt that is useful. I'm not suggesting that we become YES people, but I do suggest that we recognize that Duke players and coaches are mortal and can have a bad game (or 3 games or more).

I too wonder about the flu, especially as regards DeMarcus. That said, he has not had an even acceptable performance for the last 10 days or so... seems to me the flu wouldn't last that long.

We need to want to win... and I'm hoping that we can want to win and can do so on Saturday.

Jumbo
03-20-2008, 10:41 PM
I have tickets to Saturday's game, but I'm seriously considering watching on TV instead. I'm feeling really grumpy.

The team needs all the support it can get. If you can't provide it, I'll be glad to take those tickets off your hands.

KandG
03-20-2008, 10:43 PM
And just about everybody in the building, most of whom had no idea what Belmont was or where they were from (many of them said so), was engaged in mean-spirited rooting against Duke, complaining about every call and high-fiving every play by Belmont. It was pretty miserable being a Duke fan with the combination of the team's sub-par performance and the atmosphere in the building.

I have tickets to Saturday's game, but I'm seriously considering watching on TV instead. I'm feeling really grumpy.


I feel for you...it must have really sucked to be there...on TV, it looked like everyone was rooting for Belmont, and I don't remember even seeing or hearing Duke fans. Reminds me of watching Duke against OK State (and Doug Gottlieb) at Rupp Arena in 1998 -- being at Rupp at the height of Laettner hate really sucked.

And even then, it probably wasn't as bad as what you went through, because Duke was at least playing a team of comparable skill. As well as Belmont played, it was flirting with the abyss to have come as close to losing as we did tonight.

With that said, I'll keep replaying Gerald's drive in my head -- as clutch a play as we've had in a while in such a big game.

Constantstrain 81
03-20-2008, 10:44 PM
Just watched the game on DVR. Belmont, with an experienced team (lots of seniors and juniors who have been together for awhile), was a surprisingly tough draw for us. They shot well, they ran the backdoor well, they defended well. Because they play like us (their coach mentioned that he modeled the team after Duke), they have a general idea how to play us and how to cut down the easy 3 point attempts. The longer they stayed in the game, the more motivated they became. And the tighter we became. We carry the pressure of being a 2 seed and the pressure of being Duke. That can be a burden against a team seeded much lower. In addition, 7 of our top 10 players are freshmen or sophomores and none of them had ever won an NCAA tournament game. Paulus had won 2.

Bottom line? The pressure factor ended up being much bigger than anyone anticipated. The good news is that it doesn't necessarily carry over. Duke may not be "favored" on Saturday and will certainly have something to prove. Much different situation. What happened today will not happen again - the next game won't be one that we are "expected" to win easily. We should relax - we advanced. That is name of that game.

Gerald was the man. Awesome.

Jumbo
03-20-2008, 10:44 PM
One last thought now: What happened to all our picking off passes for easy run outs. Ever since Wake decided "no around-the-perimiter passes...just drive by tham" our easy run outs have diminished. If it is this easy, why did it take so long to figure out? Of course, Belmont went back-door and not around-the-horn so that was part of it. Hard to get run outs even if you do pick off back-door type passes.

Still, for years Duke has feasted on the passing lanes creating runouts and no one seemed able to do anything about it. Thoughts on where that went?

Duke had a bunch of steals in the first half (Scheyer and Henderson in particular) and got out in transition decently.

Bluedog
03-20-2008, 10:45 PM
On a tangent, the wire service story that's currently up on the Duke-Belmont game is embarrassingly small-townish and partisan. Usually, the first drafts of such stories (before the quotes from players and coaches are added) are a little rough, but the story looks like it was written for a mythical small town paper in a "Hoosiers" knock off movie.

It's fine for people to root against a program with the pedigree of Duke, and Belmont played a valiant game, but the story that's up currently wouldn't get past the editors at Belmont's own school paper, it's so bad.

Agreed. I thought the exact same thing when I read it. I'm glad Howard Fendrick (the AP writer) doesn't do most Duke games. Aaron Beard is awesome, and Joedy McCreary is pretty solid as well. The two of them do the vast majority of write-ups for the AP for the Duke games. Some quotes from the AP article:

"As the closing seconds ticked away Thursday night, Belmont was beating Duke [...] Read that again, slowly: No. 15-seeded Belmont was beating No. 2 Duke. Belmont, the Atlantic Sun Conference school with zero NCAA tournament wins to its credit, was leading Duke, the Atlantic Coast Conference school with three national championships on its resume."

"Duke barely avoided what would have been a monumental upset"

"Teeny, tiny Belmont was long past wondering whether one of the biggest upsets in college basketball history was possible"

"the seemingly impossible might somehow suddenly be possible."

"Duke (28-5) snapped a two-game tournament losing streak" (wow, two games! b/c lost the last game in 2006...shocking...)

"Duke, meanwhile, celebrated as though it had won far more than an opening-round game—something it actually failed to do a year ago, upset by Virginia Commonwealth."

"Throughout Thursday, the teams’ body language was telling at timeouts. Belmont’s players would be trailing, yet they skipped to the sideline and were met with high-fives, pats on the back and yells of encouragement. Duke’s players, in the lead but hardly thrilled, trudged over slowly, some looking at the floor."

blech.

sagegrouse
03-20-2008, 10:52 PM
1. Gerald Henderson is a minor deity. He was unstoppable, esp. at the end. (The last play was the play I wanted K to run against UConn in 1999 -- only using Maggette (who was on the bench)).

2. We absolutely shut them down on their last two possessions (actually four, counting the possession following the jump ball and the final shot). Now where was that defense earlier?

3. The suicide watch on the sage grouse has been suspended; but the species is now on the endangered list -- esp. if the surviving individual insists on watching Saturday's game.

4. Speaking of the jump ball with 4.0 seconds left -- what was that about? Why wasn't it a foul against Belmont for "over the back?"

5. Belmont's most famous graduate is Minnie Pearl. Duke's most famous graduate is Richard Nixon. Advantage: Belmont.

sagegrouse

BD80
03-20-2008, 10:53 PM
A little concerned about Markie's play. Please don't be sick.

I hope he is sick, explaining his sub par performance, and will be much healthier on Saturday. Watching UA v WVU, we will definitely need Markie to be Markie on Saturday. He will have a bunch of opportunities on the glass and for drives to the basket.

Constantstrain 81
03-20-2008, 10:54 PM
In the first half, I did hear some amusing commentary from one announcer after Henderson made an excellent defensive play - "Henderson is having an outstanding senior year - he was named the ACC's Defensive Player of the Year."

Well ... I guess all Dukies look alike.

JBDuke
03-20-2008, 10:55 PM
Agreed. I thought the exact same thing when I read it. I'm glad Howard Fendrick (the AP writer) doesn't do most Duke games. Aaron Beard is awesome, and Joedy McCreary is pretty solid as well. The two of them do the vast majority of write-ups for the AP for the Duke games. Some quotes from the AP article:

"As the closing seconds ticked away Thursday night, Belmont was beating Duke [...] Read that again, slowly: No. 15-seeded Belmont was beating No. 2 Duke. Belmont, the Atlantic Sun Conference school with zero NCAA tournament wins to its credit, was leading Duke, the Atlantic Coast Conference school with three national championships on its resume."

"Duke barely avoided what would have been a monumental upset"

"Teeny, tiny Belmont was long past wondering whether one of the biggest upsets in college basketball history was possible"

"the seemingly impossible might somehow suddenly be possible."

"Duke (28-5) snapped a two-game tournament losing streak" (wow, two games! b/c lost the last game in 2006...shocking...)

"Duke, meanwhile, celebrated as though it had won far more than an opening-round game—something it actually failed to do a year ago, upset by Virginia Commonwealth."

"Throughout Thursday, the teams’ body language was telling at timeouts. Belmont’s players would be trailing, yet they skipped to the sideline and were met with high-fives, pats on the back and yells of encouragement. Duke’s players, in the lead but hardly thrilled, trudged over slowly, some looking at the floor."

blech.

Please don't pursue this further. As someone wisely posted earlier this week, this is a "man bites dog" situation. It's not news if #2 seed Duke steamrolls #15 seed Belmont (i.e., "dog bites man"), but it is huge news if #15 seed Belmont beats #2 seed Duke ("man bites dog"). Even the fact that Duke got pushed to the very end as they did is news - people still talk about Princeton pushing UCLA to the brink back in 1996. The last #2 to go down was when Hampton beat Iowa State seven years ago, and Iowa State doesn't have the tradition of post-season success that Duke does. Duke winning tonight isn't news. Duke being pushed to the limit is.

jipops
03-20-2008, 10:55 PM
I have tickets to Saturday's game, but I'm seriously considering watching on TV instead. I'm feeling really grumpy.

Take the beating and just go to the game. You're privileged just to have tickets. Embrace being in the minority.

dukemsu
03-20-2008, 10:56 PM
I hope he is sick, explaining his sub par performance, and will be much healthier on Saturday. Watching UA v WVU, we will definitely need Markie to be Markie on Saturday. He will have a bunch of opportunities on the glass and for drives to the basket.

I am impressed with the Mountaineers. We're going to have to be very sharp on Saturday afternoon.

I think we will be up for it, but it's going to be a real challenge. WVU shoots from anywhere, and they shoot it well. They also contained some of UA's very talented personnel (Budinger played well inside/out, maybe Kyle can replicate).

devildeac
03-20-2008, 10:57 PM
I expected close but dang! Belmont played great. Duke not so much. Gerald Henderson for Prez! He was the MOTM followed by Scheyer. Duke won't see a team like that again in this tournament.

You don't think so? It seems like most teams we play now have figured out to spread the floor, drive and hit the open guy for a lay-up when the help D comes over, or kick it out to 3 land for a nearly wide open shot.

blazindw
03-20-2008, 11:02 PM
Take the beating and just go to the game. You're privileged just to have tickets. Embrace being in the minority.

I was at the games too. It was a brutal experience, but it comes with the territory of being a fan of the Blue Devils. The fans there were cheering harder and louder against Duke than they did for their own teams. But, you know what, as ugly a game it was and how bad many of us feel right now about a victory, we stuck it out, made the plays we needed to win and got the W. Survive and advance.

Stick it out, go to the games on Saturday, cheer loud for Duke, because once again, the entire crowd will be against us. I'll be there with my parents rocking a headband this time (cuz we seem to play better when I dress like I'm checking into the game).

Teams want to see us fall because we're Duke and they don't want any part of us in later rounds. Let's regroup, refocus, and hopefully our team can shake off tonight's negatives and turn Saturday, the 1st day of spring, into a wonderful day.

dyedwab
03-20-2008, 11:04 PM
...led the team in points, rebounds, steals, and tied for the lead in assists

We scored 29 points in the 2nd half; Gerald had 17 and assisted on 2 more baskets

Gerald scored the last 8 points of the game including the game winning drive.

Games like that are when good players with lots of talent turn into great players

Gerald Henderson is the man

gofurman
03-20-2008, 11:08 PM
Duke's defense is high risk, high reward. So, when we face teams with good ball handlers, who don't turn it over, our aggressive defense starts to work against us. And part of that is playing a team of juniors and seniors, when Duke is starting a freshman and two sophomores. They never got rattled against our D.

I think losing on Senior Night to UNC has rattled Demarcus. He's regressing to that player who always managed to take one too many dribbles in the lane --- either charging or losing the ball.

I'm trying to think back to early in the year when we were scoring 80-90 points a game, racing up the court to attack the other team's transition defense. Now, teams are turning Duke into a half court team, and we're struggling.


"I'm trying to think back to early in the year when we were scoring 80-90 points a game, racing up the court to attack the other team's transition defense. Now, teams are turning Duke into a half court team, and we're struggling." - why has this been so hard to come by lately? I am seriously asking for your opinions... Sure some teams have better gaurds than others but why have the last 10-12 games been so different than teh 10 prior games (even against the same teams) in terms of getting transition baskets??? It isn't like teams didn't know that was Duke's MO earlier in the year. It always is.

What has changed?

devildeac
03-20-2008, 11:14 PM
We had to be watching different games. I was aghast at how much physical contact Belmont was allowed to get away with. At one point, i found myself saying to the scorer's table: "How badly do you want Belmont to win?"

Belmont played a fantastic game. But teams always bring their A game to Duke, so that should be no surprise. Time for Duke to bring its A game.

NEXT PLAY.

Hey, it worked for lsu in 2006 so why not keep trying it. If the fouls are called, the fans scream 'Duke gets all the calls' and if they are not called, you get away with highly physical defense to disrupt our game.

jacone21
03-20-2008, 11:17 PM
The fans there were cheering harder and louder against Duke than they did for their own teams.

I take solace in the fact that half of those fans watched their team lose tonight. And I guess on Saturday they'll be cheering for the team that beat their team. I'd rather be a Duke fan. :D

Richard Berg
03-20-2008, 11:21 PM
Did anyone in the ACC do as good a job on back-door cuts as Belmont? Really? EVERYONE knows the Devils overplay passing lanes and yet I haven't seen anyone in the ACC do the back-door as crisp as tonight's Bruins... crazy
No, not since Georgetown in 2006. (not an ACC game, though it came in the middle of ACC season)


Paulus was really exposed on D tonight. I know he is limited athletically some but their gaurds went by him (and a lot of our guys) like they were standing still.
I don't mind Paulus getting blown by so much. Tonight it happened to Markie and Nolan just as often, and frankly that's not a rare situation for any guard. Where Paulus looked ridiculous is when he switched to guarding a taller player and had to front him. When the entry pass came, he either had to make a clumsy foul or get help from Singler...neither being very good outcomes.

Meanwhile let's give credit where due: Paulus played excellent D on Belmont's last key possession, forcing a bad shot.

gep
03-20-2008, 11:30 PM
I just heard a clip of the post-game interview with Coach K. Wow, he REALLY sounded sick. When I sound like that, I know how I feel:(

devildeac
03-20-2008, 11:36 PM
Hope they got their bad game out of their system tonight. Even my wife, who is the eternal optimist and glass half-full person made comments like "where is the real Duke team' and "who kidnapped our players"? She also wondered who #21 was for us tonight as she did not recognize his performance. I hope we see some serious adjustments on Saturday and the December/January/early February team that ran, shot well, played denial D and with confidence or we are going to have a very sad vacation.

elvis14
03-20-2008, 11:44 PM
It appears that teams have figured out that the way to beat Duke is to play very physically against them. If the refs do not call fouls we are not able to run our offense.

I agree with DDD's assessment and I'd like to see Duke make some adjustments to make it less of an advantage to other teams when the officiating gets basketball and football confused. This physical, call-no-fouls style of play that's being encouraged is ugly basketball and I hope it gets adjusted soon.

Overall I'm not sure what to say or think at this point. Here's a few thoughts:
I'm happy that we won and I look forward to watching our game Saturday
It was great to see G come thru in the end
I haven't posted or read much this week. I'm really bummed that we have been playing so poorly of late. We lost to Clemson! Clemson, a football school (I know I went to grad school there!).
We talk about teams giving us their best shot and use match ups to find weaknesses, etc. It's time for us to start giving it to other teams with our best shot and start using mismatches we can create to our advantage.
If guys are tired or sick, bench them and give other players some PT. We have depth, use it if we need it.
I'd like to see us adjust our offense by having guys cut to the hoop without the ball more and make some interior passes to get some layups. Heck use some back door cuts, I hear they can work. Specifically when we drive I like the kick outs to be there but I'd also like to see some guys attack off the ball and make some nice passes for easy hoops and/or shooting fouls
I'm really happy with the progress Zoubek has made. Makes me feel like he'll have a good tournament and a good Jr year.
If officiating is bad and biased, like tonight's game, it's not whining or terping to point it out and mention that it's one of the reasons we didn't so as well as we should have. If it looks/walks/quacks/etc like a duck, it's OK to point out that it's a duck!
I love this team and the heart they play with, I just wish they were more tournament ready. I hope I'm wrong but we don't seem to be up to making a real run at it right now. Please please let me be wrong about that!
Add me to the list of Duke fans that's getting tired of the hate. If we are not playing in Cameron, the other team will get the crowds support. Then there's all the jacka*ses everywhere that loudly hate on Duke anytime they were on. Whatever, those kids and K's program has earned some respect
I like the fact that our guys came thru in the end and that they didn't panic. I hope G hitting that shot really gets him going for the rest of the tournament
No matter what happens I really enjoy watching this team play and I enjoy this message board. I'm going to appreciate every game we have left this season

Cameron
03-20-2008, 11:54 PM
Honestly, after the final buzzer had sounded, I was so emotionally and physically spent that this is all I could think of...

http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/2000_draft/Players/images/arceneaux.jpg

The Show lives on.

Honest to God. That was it.

What a nightmare tonight could have been. What could be worse than a loss to Carolina in the national finals? Yep, a loss to Belmont in the "greatest NCAA Tournament upset of all-time." Instead, tonight was one of the greatest nights of my life as a sports fan. No question.

Become legendary, Duke. Make it happen.

A-Tex Devil
03-20-2008, 11:59 PM
Love the Arceneaux picture....

Sorry about my last post. I still am a bit ticked. But I still think Gerald's coast to coast is going to get lost in the fact that it shouldn't have been necessary.

There haven't been very many plays as clutch as that in Duke's history. Seriously. But opponent and situation unfortunately take away a bit.

g4orce
03-21-2008, 12:07 AM
I just read an article - don't remember where, but I think it was a linky from here - that we've been running a lot of end of game scenarios. With about 1 minute to go, I began wondering what kind of play we might run if push came to shove. My wife was on the computer in the other room - couldn't handle the nerves & 8 months pregnant - and I begged her to come in and watch.... that it might be one to remember. I doubt that Hendo's play was one that K may have staged, but I guarantee you that we will remember this game.

Great heads up play from Gerald. I watched it again in slo-mo, and he missed having it stripped from behind by inches as he drove into the lane. Hey, at some point we all have off nights. Survive & advance. It may be ugly, but it is STILL a W.

Now... Let's Go Duke!
9F
:D

HateCarolina
03-21-2008, 12:15 AM
G was incredible. He put the upperclassmen on his back and won the game. He will be a star next year, might have become one this year but for the wrist.

We got as many breaks from the refs, if not more, than they did. Without going to the line early and often in the first half, we aren't even close.

I'm just back from Verizon, and I have to say that being there - and I had "good" seats - was a horrible experience. Duke's fan support was pathetic compared to just about every other team that played in the building today, especially Georgia's, which was superb despite their team's losing effort.

And just about everybody in the building, most of whom had no idea what Belmont was or where they were from (many of them said so), was engaged in mean-spirited rooting against Duke, complaining about every call and high-fiving every play by Belmont. It was pretty miserable being a Duke fan with the combination of the team's sub-par performance and the atmosphere in the building.

I have tickets to Saturday's game, but I'm seriously considering watching on TV instead. I'm feeling really grumpy.

So I'm reading through the posts and I come across this line from Maipei: "We got as many breaks from the refs, if not more, than they did. Without going to the line early and often in the first half, we aren't even close."...which leads me to wonder if you are half blind...we got calls in the first half b/c they refs were actually calling fouls....

NOW MY BIG ISSUE....I saw your quote about being at tonight's game and saying you were not sure if you were going on Saturday. Hey guess what...all of us other poor schmucks had to watch it on TV...enjoy the live game....root our guys on and smile!! I sucked it up down here in Atlanta when JJ & Shelden and the rest of the guys lost to LSU and you know what...I would still go and root them on again even knowing the outcome!!

juise
03-21-2008, 12:46 AM
I, too, was disappointed with the team's performance today. Even though I cannot remember a win that felt as much like a loss as this game did, I am certainly not writing off this team's chances for the rest of the tournament. Aside from Wake, Duke has been in a position to win every game this year.

I am hoping that this team plays with a chip on its shoulder Saturday. They should. Not only is our close call the lead story on sports news sites, but our friend at ESPN are ready to start writing off the program all together:

"But Duke is quickly becoming the Green Bay Packers of college basketball, living more on its faded glory than current success. The aura is tinged, the mystique dissipated." -Dana O'Neil (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney08/columns/story?columnist=oneil_dana&id=3304438)

All the experts were picking Arizona/WVu to knock Duke off, so I'm sure that the haters will be circling all the more after today's game.


Did anyone catch Markie's post-game WRAL interview (I saw it on Yahoo)? He coughed a lot toward the end. :( So let's ease up on him a bit and remember the times he's willed Duke to victory this year. We know his game. Let's hope we see it on Saturday.

wisteria
03-21-2008, 02:24 AM
DeMarcus did cough a lot. And Coach K sounded just awful. He was plainly trying to refrain from coughing. His voice was really awful. Get well! We need everyone to be better and virus-free on Saturday.

Another note: K sounds so resigned. it may have something to do with the sickness, but man, I hope he got that fire. get angry or something. This is like the K after the wake loss.

Lulu
03-21-2008, 03:15 AM
I kept having a nagging thought today that maybe younger teams have a harder time playing motion offense in pressure situations. Like maybe younger teams lack the confidence to take on the pressure without having a situation dictated to them... or maybe it's just this team, or just our offense today, but I feel like we have a confidence problem (or fear, rather) late in the season and when the season is on the line. Feels like it's been this way for a few years. I guess we're not too incredibly young though... thoughts?

In any case... one big huge ginormous sigh of relief...

wisteria
03-21-2008, 03:19 AM
I kept having a nagging thought today that maybe younger teams have a harder time playing motion offense in pressure situations. Like maybe younger teams lack the confidence to take on the pressure without having a situation dictated to them... or maybe it's just this team, or just our offense today, but I feel like we have a confidence problem (or fear, rather) late in the season and when the season is on the line. Feels like it's been this way for a few years. I guess we're not too incredibly young though... thoughts?

In any case... one big huge ginormous sigh of relief...

No, in today's college basketball world, we are not that young really. Last year, yes. This year, not so much. Lack of NCAA experience though, that's a valid piont.

However, today the younger guys outshined the upperclassmen completely and undisputably. so....maybe it really doesn't have that much to do with age?

glutton
03-21-2008, 04:11 AM
Between Demarcus coughing all over his interview, and getting blown by like he was standing still a couple times in the game (rather out of character for the ACC DPOY...), I think it's a safe assumption that he's feeling a little under the weather. Hopefully he and K will both be feeling better come saturday, otherwise I don't like our chances.

Re: the reffing, I don't think the observation that the officials were letting a lot of stuff go necessarily takes anything away from belmont's performance. They played an outstanding game, and deserve credit for it. However, while I do appreciate officials "letting them play", I'm less excited about the "letting them beat the crap out of each other" approach. I'm not advocating a both-teams-in-the-double-bonus-after-5-minutes approach, a la the home miami game, but players are going to do whatever they can get away with. And that sort of physicality will almost never favor Duke.

I'm just going to assume those were big east refs, which thankfully we won't have in the next game.

jjasper0729
03-21-2008, 05:14 AM
I was thinking about our half-court approach. It would appear that people have put a premium on staying at home on the shooters when someone drives into the lane because our attack is to drive and kick for a three. So they stay with the perimeter player and play up and honest on the drive. If someone is in the middle to slide over and help, great, if not, they play as good defense as they can. That has disrupted us a LOT. We get into the lane and are looking to pass out to the line and noone is open so it's most likely a bad pass that's picked off or a scramble to make something up.

I'm in agreement with a previous poster that we need to have more cuts TO the basket without the ball in combination with a drive for a layup dish or drive to the hole from the perimeter with the intent to score rather than pass back out. That should be at the start of a game to get the defense to pack in a little more, which, in theory, should open up the perimeter lanes.

People have been putting a lot of defensive pressure on us (like we're supposed to be doing) and it's throwing off our rhythm. It would help if the fouls were called, but I would rather not have a situation akin to the game in Cameron earlier this year when every 40 seconds, there was a foul called (can't remember who we were playing off the top of my head... BC?).

dukelifer
03-21-2008, 06:04 AM
I

"But Duke is quickly becoming the Green Bay Packers of college basketball, living more on its faded glory than current success. The aura is tinged, the mystique dissipated." -Dana O'Neil (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney08/columns/story?columnist=oneil_dana&id=3304438)


Didn't Green Bay get to the NFC Championship game this year- the final four? I would take the equivalent for Duke this year.

dukelifer
03-21-2008, 06:09 AM
Before last night, the last two opponents that beat Belmont went to the final four. The last time Duke won a 1 point game in the NCAA's they won the NC.

diesel
03-21-2008, 06:26 AM
As my previous posts may have shown, I was an admirer of Belmont’s performance last night. On further reflection, however, I have one qualification. Fouling Jon Scheyer—which they did repeatedly in the first half –must be one of the dumbest moves in basketball! I thought Jon’s performance last night was outstanding, and I mean to take nothing away from the game-winning performance of Gerald Henderson.

mcdukie
03-21-2008, 06:40 AM
My only concern is that in my opinion we never developed Nolan like I thought we would. When Paulus went on a roll in the middle of the season where he shot the lights out, Nolan's time decreased. I thought Nolan could guard a quick point and get into the lane better than Paulus. These were the problems that all Duke fans were crying about last year and they were apparent against Belmont. When your point can't get into the paint in our offense and the threes we get don't go in, we are in big trouble. I am not knocking Paulus, only giving facts. If Demarcus is healthy, I can't see him or K having that kind of game on Saturday.

dukelifer
03-21-2008, 06:42 AM
My only concern is that in my opinion we never developed Nolan like I thought we would. When Paulus went on a roll in the middle of the season where he shot the lights out, Nolan's time decreased. I thought Nolan could guard a quick point and get into the lane better than Paulus. These were the problems that all Duke fans were crying about last year and they were apparent against Belmont. When your point can't get into the paint in our offense and the threes we get don't go in, we are in big trouble. I am not knocking Paulus, only giving facts. If Demarcus is healthy, I can't see him or K having that kind of game on Saturday.

Do not forget that Nolan is not 100%. His knee has been a problem for weeks, I do not have any inside info- but I suspect this has been an issue for more than a month.

willywoody
03-21-2008, 07:37 AM
on a positive note, what about that shot by taylor king. i think it was near the end of the half with time running down wasn't it? pretty big shot in retrospect.

diesel
03-21-2008, 07:38 AM
I have to wonder about the preparation put in by the drive-by media for the Belmont game and in general. There was last night when one of the CBS commentators promoted Gerald Henderson to being a senior. (Sure, a few weeks ago on these boards I myself thought he was junior but it’s not my day job and I’m not paid to comment.)

In today’s Washington Post recap of the game by Barry Svrluga, there’s a half page shot of what is breathlessly described as “Kyle Singler blocks a shot by Belmont's Justin Hare…” Maybe someone less technologically challenged could link the photo. But it’s without doubt Lance Thomas in the photo to me, with Gerald Henderson’s arm (complete with black wristband) in the background.

Should I be surprised, however, following the Post’s impeccable coverage of the lacrosse case?

mapei
03-21-2008, 07:43 AM
The team needs all the support it can get. If you can't provide it, I'll be glad to take those tickets off your hands.

Jumbo, if you're serious, PM me. If you have thicker skin than I do, I'd love to help out.

kidslow
03-21-2008, 07:48 AM
If you're desperate for something good about this game, just be happy you got to see all 40 minutes. If it had been a blowout, CBS would have gone to another game.

Some of us only got the final minutes of the game. Surely you know that CBS shows games of "regional interest" in the first rounds, and that not everybody on this board lives in the ACC region.

Troublemaker
03-21-2008, 07:51 AM
No, in today's college basketball world, we are not that young really. Last year, yes. This year, not so much. Lack of NCAA experience though, that's a valid piont.

However, today the younger guys outshined the upperclassmen completely and undisputably. so....maybe it really doesn't have that much to do with age?

Actually, Duke is young. Duke ranks 295th in the country in experience and 59th out of 65 tournament teams. http://www.kenpom.com/height.php?s=ExpRank&y=2008

If you want to say youth doesn't excuse losing your man off the ball, I'd agree. I don't think last night had much to do with youth, either. But Duke is young.

mapei
03-21-2008, 07:55 AM
on a positive note, what about that shot by taylor king. i think it was near the end of the half with time running down wasn't it? pretty big shot in retrospect.

Absolutely. Even the haters that surrounded me were impressed by that one. Also G's steal where he ripped the ball out of a Belmont player's hands. Every individual play in the last few minutes was needed last night.

Gooch
03-21-2008, 08:24 AM
Another note: K sounds so resigned. it may have something to do with the sickness, but man, I hope he got that fire. get angry or something. This is like the K after the wake loss.

My wife (also T '94) noticed this about Coach K, too. "He seems so quiet on the sidelines...maybe he's just letting them work it out?". Not two minutes later they went to a shot of the Duke huddle and clear as day K yells "Will you play some F******* defense!". Lots of fire in his eyes (and voice undoubtedly).

Hopefully everyone takes their Airborne today...

vango
03-21-2008, 08:27 AM
Belmont was like looking in the mirror. Belmont matched us up perfectly but I did think it would be a 10 game.

Better matchups ahead. But, we looked sick, tired, or both. Sometimes a game like this is your one test and if you pass it you go on to do great things....

These teams won a championship after a close game (though none of these teams struggled with "Belmont").

99= UCONN 67 / Gonz 62 (who is Gonzaga?)
02= MD 90 / UCONN 82
03= SYR 79 / Auburn 78
04= UCONN 79 / Duke 78 (hate to bring it up but....)
05= UNC 67 / 'Nova 66
06= UF 57 / G-town 53
07= UF 65 / Butler 57

banneheim
03-21-2008, 08:28 AM
Did anyone catch Coach K's comments about Belmont's mentality of everyone feels like a starter? Do you think he is going to go more to the bench for minutes in the next game. If people are sick, they won't be able to play 30-35 minutes, so is he planting the seeds for more people to contribute off the bench? And Gerald was awesome, can he pull of a Camelo Anthony or Danny Manning, I'm not sure he is quite there.

Indoor66
03-21-2008, 08:34 AM
I too wonder about the flu, especially as regards DeMarcus. That said, he has not had an even acceptable performance for the last 10 days or so... seems to me the flu wouldn't last that long.

We need to want to win... and I'm hoping that we can want to win and can do so on Saturday.

About the flu. I am coming off a bout with the flu. It started on March 3 and I went out of the house for the first time on March 12. I was still feeling it on March 18. I am a heck of a lot older than the team, but it can be quite debilitating. Several acquaintances have also had a two week experience.

Chard
03-21-2008, 08:49 AM
You're right. we won't see another team that is precisely like Belmont.

That's all I was saying. Where are you getting the rest of this?


But my point is, do you really think that, in itself, is a boon to us. Whatever types of teams we face from here on, the one thing you can be certain of is that they will be quality opponents. And, IMO, Belmont gave us fits because they were good and we failed to make adjustments, not because they were just so perfectly suited to play us that we were set up to fail. In fact, with belmont's dependence on the 3 and lack of inside scoring, in theory, they should have been an easier matchup for us than other types of teams.

The tourny is all about match ups. Duke didn't match up well with Belmont. It was like watching a better version of the best NCSU team from the Sendek days. I said nothing of the quality of team that Duke will face, only that Duke would not see a team like that again in this tournament. I agree that the quality of teams will not decrease. However, will Duke face a team with so many experienced Juniors and a Senior? Also, one would think that Belmont's style of play would match up well with Duke but it didn't did it?


So I don't understand how not facing another team constructed exactly like them is all that great for our chances. Do you want to put Duke through last night again?

gofurman
03-21-2008, 08:57 AM
a response from a UNC fan I respect:
Belmont is a decent team, but I thought it was more of a difficult match up for Duke.
- IE, It is more about matchups than talent and that was the worst of matchups for Duke.
*Duke wants a team that passes around the perimeter so they can pick off the passes and run transition…Belmont had two quick guards who are small and could just get the ball and drive without perimeter passing which is EXACTLY what Duke doesn't want to see (think Duke's worst loss - Wake Forest with Ish Smith and Jeff Teague). Duke would far rather play two taller moderate speed guards…

*the Belmont - Wake comparison is good other than general talent level...two quick guards seems to be the downfall

Chard
03-21-2008, 09:05 AM
We won, enjoy it!

Is anyone else like me and on a complete high right now (from the win, nothing else) or is everyone stressing out? This was better than a 30-point rout in some ways.

At the buzzer I did the Nestea plunge on my couch and said thank you to the B ball gods. I was in a great mood after that. We have to give Belmont credit. They are that good.

88egr
03-21-2008, 09:23 AM
I was lucky enough to get to go last night. Anyone else?

I was pretty dissapointed in the Duke section crowd - it didn't look or sound like very many folks were really cheering too hard our very loudly. I know that Verizon center is huge, compared to Cameron, but geez, people, if you got your tickets through the Duke allotment, and are sitting in the Duke section, get up and CHEER! Except for a couple of women seated behind us, I didn't get the sense that anyone in our section really cared about the outcome. They just lucked into some tickets.

If you guys at home didn't see it, Taylor King got up off the bench 3 times in the second half and tried to encourage the crowd to get into the game (the Duke section was right behind the Duke bench). Folks - take a hint!!!

All you who show up tomorrow better be ready to cheer and stop looking at your damn blackberry!

dukie8
03-21-2008, 09:27 AM
i think that the most upsetting aspect of the game was that, contrary what a lot of the people want to believe on here, belmont did NOT play extraordinarily well. they shot 44% from the field and 35% from 3-point range so this wasn't a team in a once-in-a-lifetime zone hitting shot after shot. those are pretty predestrian numbers. i think that it was more a function of how indifferent we were. other than G, did anyone look like they were really hungry and didn't want to lose?

we had 9 assists for the entire game! it is beyond me how we could have so few assists when playing a team that was so inferior from an athletic standpoint. that's what you get when your halfcourt offense regresses into just chucking up 3s and not even trying to attack the basket. if you didn't know who the teams were, you would have thought that duke was the 15 seed based on how passive they were on offense and how they resorted to just heaving 3s on most possessions (and only making 29% of them).

KenTankerous
03-21-2008, 09:30 AM
This is why they call it MADNESS, baby!

We didn't get the game here in Louisville, KY until the last few minutes and I was watching on ESPN by then so I didn't actually see any of it. I think the last ten and a half pages pretty much covers all angles of the particulars, anyway.

I think everyone is reading too much into the #15 seed versus #2. This is the Big Dance, everyone brings their best and everyone wants to knock out the big boys. The media love upsets and the nation feeds off it, especially if the team getting overthrown wears dark blue. Just look at the post game stories about the UK/Marquette game. I mean, Kentucky was, at best, a questionable at large bid so why is a first round exit so surprising?

Duke won. Bottom line. Quit grieving until you have something to grieve about.

BlueDevilBaby
03-21-2008, 09:37 AM
Well said. Although it seemed there were more Duke fans there by far, we were awfully quiet. I yelled as much as I could. But I was up in the rafters. Like I said in another thread, there will be a huge contingent of WVA fans on Sat. Duke fans need to bring their A-game.

Fish80
03-21-2008, 09:47 AM
I've read quickly through all of this thread and didn't see this mentioned. No one on the Duke team, coaches or players, made any excuses. Clearly the sickness was a factor.

I am so impressed with the way they continue to conduct themselves and represent our University. Win or lose, I'm proud to be a Duke fan!

Smitty1911
03-21-2008, 09:59 AM
Agree. We need to step it up. The 15-2 matchups are no fun for the 2 seeds - 7 fan bases root against us, and the opponent has nothing to lose. I think most of us were in shell-shocked silence last night. Tomorrow will be my last time seeing the team in person this season, so I plan to leave the arena with little to no voice. Let's let the team know how much fun they have been to watch this year; they clearly need a boost.

Udaman
03-21-2008, 10:15 AM
There were killing us with backdoor cuts. We were overplaying on defense, and they were doing the Princeton drill over and over. We were very lucky they missed a lot of wide open layups. Then, they would pass in and kick out for open three's (especially in the 2nd half).

Why then, given that we were fighting the flu bug, didn't we switch to a zone? Take the slashing away. Give our guys a little rest. Make them hit three's. At least for a change of pace to try and throw them off.

rsvman
03-21-2008, 10:59 AM
I was wondering why no zone, too, for awhile during the game. I remember how well it worked in the Virginia game, and Virginia has a pretty quick guard, just like Belmont does.

It occurred to me this morning that perhaps the difference between Virginia and Belmont is that Belmont has 5 guys who can make the three, whereas Virginia really only has Singletary and Diane. I would think Belmont would tear apart a zone pretty quickly.

Probably an in-between type of defense, like a more traditional sagging man-to-man, would have been a better option.

mapei
03-21-2008, 11:15 AM
I was lucky enough to get to go last night. Anyone else?

I was pretty dissapointed in the Duke section crowd - it didn't look or sound like very many folks were really cheering too hard our very loudly. I know that Verizon center is huge, compared to Cameron, but geez, people, if you got your tickets through the Duke allotment, and are sitting in the Duke section, get up and CHEER! Except for a couple of women seated behind us, I didn't get the sense that anyone in our section really cared about the outcome. They just lucked into some tickets.


That was my impression, too. :( I don't know if you were there for the afternoon session, but the Georgia fans were awesome - there were more of them than there were Duke fans, and they were engaged in organized loud cheers the whole game. Even the Xavier and Purdue fans were better than the Duke fans. And West Virginia, I don't like their fans, but they bring it - and they will pack the arena, too.

There were VERY FEW Duke fans in section 211 where I was, but I was just about the only one cheering. I had to put my hands over my ears most of the game because the people cheering against us were so loud.

Classof06
03-21-2008, 11:23 AM
Like Coach Knight said, I think Belmont would have given a lot of teams a run for their money last night. To whoever said that Belmont didn't play well, I disagree.

The only objective in this tournament is to survive and advance. Next play.

Duvall
03-21-2008, 11:24 AM
I was lucky enough to get to go last night. Anyone else?

I was pretty dissapointed in the Duke section crowd - it didn't look or sound like very many folks were really cheering too hard our very loudly. I know that Verizon center is huge, compared to Cameron, but geez, people, if you got your tickets through the Duke allotment, and are sitting in the Duke section, get up and CHEER! Except for a couple of women seated behind us, I didn't get the sense that anyone in our section really cared about the outcome. They just lucked into some tickets.


Every Duke crowd is like that - it's not just D.C. Not sure why, but that's just the way it is.

JasonEvans
03-21-2008, 11:32 AM
There were killing us with backdoor cuts. We were overplaying on defense, and they were doing the Princeton drill over and over. We were very lucky they missed a lot of wide open layups. Then, they would pass in and kick out for open three's (especially in the 2nd half).

Why then, given that we were fighting the flu bug, didn't we switch to a zone? Take the slashing away. Give our guys a little rest. Make them hit three's. At least for a change of pace to try and throw them off.

Well, considering Belmont is known as a stud 3-point-shooting team, I think we shied away from zone for that reason.

That said, it might have been worth throwing one at them for a posession or two if only to see how they reacted and maybe get them off their rhythm. It also would allow us to play Zoubek a bit more as he succeeds best on D when we are in a zone.

--Jason "for long stretch, a zone would have been a disaster though, I think" Evans

ChiDevil
03-21-2008, 12:23 PM
most ridiculous comment of the night, watch it again, nobody even remotely attempted to draw a charge. I know I took your parenthetical quote at the end off, but using this statement to say that people were incorrect in criticizing the refs is absurd. If I'm missing something, and Belmont fans are actually complaining about the refs, please let me know, but I seriously doubt this is the case.

Totally missed my point. I don't know if anyone at Belmont is complaining about the calls. I'm frankly disappointed to see how much of that we're doing.

Duke was outplayed, and I'm glad they found a way to win. I'm just hoping they can get healthy and take the narrow Belmont win as motivation for Saturday.