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View Full Version : March Madness conversation: MIDWEST Region



JasonEvans
03-16-2008, 12:01 PM
Please make all comments about the Midwest Regional, being played in Detroit, in this thread.

Kansas, G'town, Wisc, Vandy

--Jason "I know the pairings don't come out until 6pm ET, but I wanted these to be out there early so we would not get a mad rush of new threads in the moments after the pairings are announced" Evans

Chard
03-16-2008, 05:19 PM
Clemson has a reasonable chance to get to the Sweet 16. Vandy will be a tough but not equal opponent.


Davidson will be a good "upset" pick.

VaDukie
03-16-2008, 05:19 PM
This region is loaded!

dukemsu
03-16-2008, 05:22 PM
I don't see a challenger to KU before the round of 8.

Wisconsin could be gone in round 2. USC is tough.

BCGroup
03-16-2008, 05:22 PM
I am looking forward to Gonzaga-Davidson--that should be a great game.

duke98
03-16-2008, 05:22 PM
Why'd they have to put G-town in this region? I was already counting down the days to the UNC-Kansas showdown in the national semis. G-town's going to complicate that significantly.

Oh well, a girl can always dream....

Duvall
03-16-2008, 05:23 PM
This region is loaded!

Really? A lot of good teams down the bracket, I guess, but Kansas got the Georgetown/Wisconsin pairing that I was afraid that UNC would get.

Classof06
03-16-2008, 05:24 PM
Loving the Mayo-Beasley matchup in the first round

And if you're Kansas, you don't want to play Clemson..

superdave
03-16-2008, 06:13 PM
Let the bandwagon begin to be filled up...

Gonzaga is really tough though and skilled, so we shouldnt get too carried away.

I am struggling with Kansas...how to evaluate them after they blew it in the tournament last year.

Bluedog
03-16-2008, 06:49 PM
I LOVE the USC-Kansas St first round matchup. That is going to be HUGE game with lots of firepower. I think both of these teams can do some damage if they play to their potential. I like whoever wins that to take down Wisconsin. Do they have the times of the games up yet?

superdave
03-16-2008, 07:17 PM
I guess CBS has to cherry pick their big time matchups then let the rest fall where they may. I would imagine USC-KSt will get some hype though.

Mayo will probably be chucking up everything to leap into the #1 pick. I could see that going poorly.

mapei
03-16-2008, 09:15 PM
Well, crap.

Um, most people on this board are glad Duke is playing in DC, where we actually have a more favorable fan base than in Raleigh with UNC on the card.

And, for the record, Gtown has played a better last third of its schedule than Duke has. No way they would be a 2 seed based on the first third of their schedule. Duke's the team that peaked early this year, not Gtown.

And Gtown's overall strength of schedule - remember, they played 18 conference games to Duke's 16 - ranks 36th, not as strong as Duke's 14 but comparable to UNC's 32 and Wisconsin's 37, and a lot better than Memphis's 75th.

77devil
03-16-2008, 09:25 PM
And, for the record, Gtown has played a better last third of its schedule than Duke has. No way they would be a 2 seed based on the first third of their schedule. Duke's the team that peaked early this year, not Gtown.


Not sure what the point is. The last third of the schedule is in conference and out of the control of either school. Not the case with the first third in which Georgetown historically schedules one of softest.

mapei
03-16-2008, 09:31 PM
Not sure what the point is. The last third of the schedule is in conference and out of the control of either school. Not the case with the first third in which Georgetown historically schedules one of softest.

I thought the original poster's point was (1) Duke should be playing in Raleigh instead of Gtown, and (2) Gtown got its high seed because of a weak first-third of its schedule.

I fully agree that the first third of Gtown's schedule was weak (in part because Michigan and Alabama both turned out to be dogs). But I think they earned their high seed on the strength of what they did later. The soft OOC schedule had absolutely nothing to do with it. I also think a soft OOC schedule can be discounted at least slightly if a team has to play 18 in-conference games, unlike ACC schools. By the end of the season, Gtown's strength of schedule was about the same as UNC's.

77devil
03-16-2008, 09:41 PM
I thought the original poster's point was (1) Duke should be playing in Raleigh instead of Gtown, and (2) Gtown got its high seed because of a weak first-third of its schedule.

I fully agree that the first third of Gtown's schedule was weak (in part because Michigan and Alabama both turned out to be dogs). But I think they earned their high seed on the strength of what they did later. The soft OOC schedule had absolutely nothing to do with it. I also think a soft OOC schedule can be discounted at least slightly if a team has to play 18 in-conference games, unlike ACC schools. By the end of the season, Gtown's strength of schedule was about the same as UNC's.

I agree that Georgetown is appropriately seeded.

dkbaseball
03-17-2008, 01:57 AM
Wisconsin could be gone in round 2. USC is tough.

As a Wisconsin fan, I can't be too pleased with the draw as a reward for a 29-4 season, and I agree that they can lose to USC, or possibly K-State, in the second round. But I think they are presented with some very interesting match-ups. I particularly like the coaching match-ups with Bo Ryan against Floyd/Martin, JTIII and Self. Nobody is in more of a groove right now doing what they do than Wisconsin. They led the nation in scoring defense at down around 51 ppg, and I think it will be very difficult for any team to go over 65-70 on them. They are the most balanced team in the country, and don't go into the tourney with the same handicap of last year -- being completely reliant on Alando Tucker's offense. Team chemistry is off the charts.

JasonEvans
03-17-2008, 09:15 AM
USC is a real tournament wild card - clearly they have the talent to play with the very best, as evidenced by victories over UCLA and Stanford as well as a pair of very close loses to Memphis and Kansas... but this is a team with a fragile phyche that likes it when things are coming easy but struggles when faced with any adversity.

For example-- they got blown out twice by Washington State. WSU is known for playing tough, hard-nosed D and that frustrated USC. How will USC react if they face tough D in the Dance?

By the way, the committee had to know they were picking a prime-time featured game when they matched USC with Kansas State -- Beasley vs. Mayo. Wanna bet Mayo comes out insanely pumped for that game?

--Jason "CBS is gonna make USC-Kansas State a real feature, I bet" Evans

crimsonandblue
03-17-2008, 10:37 AM
I am struggling with Kansas...how to evaluate them after they blew it in the tournament last year.

Kansas lost to UCLA in San Jose in the Elite Eight on a day they were banking in 22-footers. Honestly, I think Kansas beats UCLA maybe 3 or 4 times out of 10 last year. Maybe about the same this year. So, I don't know about "blowing" it.

It's been a couple of years since Kansas really blew it... A loss to Kent State or UNLV would be really blowing it. A loss to Portland State would be hari kari time.

Oh, and thanks to Jason for noticing that Kansas beat USC. Dennis Dodd has an article up suggesting USC was one of our three losses. Silly little things like facts get in the way for Mizzou grads sometime.

JasonEvans
03-17-2008, 01:59 PM
I have added a poll to this thread, to see how folks think this region will turn out.

-Jason

mapei
03-17-2008, 03:46 PM
Count me in for K-St v. USC - should be a great game!

JasonEvans
03-17-2008, 08:44 PM
More than half the votes so far are for Kansas. We like the chalk here.

-Jason "the chalk-- get it?" Evans

-jk
03-18-2008, 01:58 PM
More than half the votes so far are for Kansas. We like the chalk here.

-Jason "the chalk-- get it?" Evans

But no love for Vandy!

JasonEvans
03-21-2008, 01:28 PM
Stephon Curry has like 40 points as Davidson leads by 3 with a minute left over Gonzaga. Where did that Curry kid learn to shoot? It is almost like it is in his genes ;)

--Jason "Dell and momma are in the stands and CBS is milking it" Evans

JasonEvans
03-21-2008, 01:31 PM
--Jason "Dell and momma are in the stands and CBS is milking it" Evans

Speaking of guys in the stands, Adam Morrison is at the game and he looks like he is channeling George Harrison from the late 60s.

These pictures don't do it justice.

http://www.8notes.com/wiki/images/GeorgeHarrison.jpg http://www.espn.go.com/photo/2006/1122/nba_g_morrison_395.jpg

--Jason "Davidson by 5 now, 24 seconds left" Evans

jdscrilla
03-21-2008, 01:32 PM
Curry is unbelievable

ForeverBlowingBubbles
03-21-2008, 01:32 PM
just posted in another thread - he is the absolute man.

From a neutral standpoint- this has been the most entertaining game I have seen all season - mostly thanks to Mr. Curry.

JasonEvans
03-21-2008, 01:37 PM
Davidson wins!

George Harrison cries.

--Jason "I dunno if they have the size to handle Hibbert, but those Davidson kids will give Georgetown a game!" Evans

wiscodevil
03-21-2008, 01:39 PM
we got curry in our player pool!:D

-jk
03-21-2008, 03:03 PM
Stephon Curry has like 40 points as Davidson leads by 3 with a minute left over Gonzaga. Where did that Curry kid learn to shoot? It is almost like it is in his genes ;)

--Jason "Dell and momma are in the stands and CBS is milking it" Evans

Didn't I hear a rumor that he's transferring to Duke? ;)

-jk

BCGroup
03-21-2008, 08:31 PM
Anybody see the Siena/Vanderbilt game? 83-62, Siena. Today has been a better day if you are a fan of upsets (except of course when we're the one who is upset).

Karl Beem
03-21-2008, 08:39 PM
Didn't I hear a rumor that he's transferring to Duke? ;)

-jk

I wouldn't mind if Davidson transferred to the ACC.

YmoBeThere
03-21-2008, 08:50 PM
Anybody see the Siena/Vanderbilt game? 83-62, Siena. Today has been a better day if you are a fan of upsets (except of course when we're the one who is upset).


The last couple of days haven't been good for this Duke/Vandy alum...

mgtr
03-21-2008, 08:58 PM
Siena was very, very impressive.

Indoor66
03-21-2008, 09:08 PM
The last couple of days haven't been good for this Duke/Vandy alum...

Why? Duke won.

YmoBeThere
03-21-2008, 09:12 PM
Yeah, but with much more angst than I needed...

jipops
03-21-2008, 10:26 PM
Come on Clemson!! Open this game up!

arydolphin
03-21-2008, 10:55 PM
The Clemson implosion is underway. This is very frustrating to watch. They're now down 8 with 6 minutes to go.

billybreen
03-21-2008, 10:57 PM
I had a feeling Clemson might do something like this. My Villanova pick may offset my foolish Indiana pick. :)

feldspar
03-21-2008, 11:02 PM
I had a feeling Clemson might do something like this. My Villanova pick may offset my foolish Indiana pick. :)

Ditto. And when Villanova pulls off a win against Siena on Sunday, I'm gonna look like a genius.

jipops
03-21-2008, 11:26 PM
Good thing we didn't play in Tampa.

wisteria
03-22-2008, 12:39 AM
:eek: no joke. I'm so glad we are playing in Tampa.


Good thing we didn't play in Tampa.

JasonEvans
03-22-2008, 05:58 AM
Good thing we didn't play in Tampa.

We have played there before... and it did not go well (1999-- :mad:)

As an aside, Clemson played like dog poop last night. WTF was that?!?!?! Where was the team that played smart, inspired basketball against Duke and even showed up to give UNC a bit of a game in the ACC finals? Could Mays an Booker have sucked any worse than that? James Mays, Cliff Hammonds, and Sam Perry ended their careers playing about as poorly as they can. I mean, Stitt was the only guy on that team to play an even moderately good game.

If just one of Mays, Hammonds, Booker, Rivers, or Oglesby play close to a normal game then Clemson wins that game against a Villanova team that probably did not even belong in the NCAA Tourney.

For a team that had been dying to make it back to the NCAA tourney and had pushed to reach this stage for this for so long, they really laid an egg.

--Jason "yes, I am pissed because I had them in the Sweet 16" Evans

ne1btunc
03-22-2008, 07:15 AM
someone call the doc cause they choked it away.....yeesh!

BCGroup
03-22-2008, 07:18 AM
No kidding, Jason. It didn't even look like the same team that played us. UGGHHHH>

dukelifer
03-22-2008, 07:32 AM
We have played there before... and it did not go well (1999-- :mad:)

As an aside, Clemson played like dog poop last night. WTF was that?!?!?! Where was the team that played smart, inspired basketball against Duke and even showed up to give UNC a bit of a game in the ACC finals? Could Mays an Booker have sucked any worse than that? James Mays, Cliff Hammonds, and Sam Perry ended their careers playing about as poorly as they can. I mean, Stitt was the only guy on that team to play an even moderately good game.

If just one of Mays, Hammonds, Booker, Rivers, or Oglesby play close to a normal game then Clemson wins that game against a Villanova team that probably did not even belong in the NCAA Tourney.

For a team that had been dying to make it back to the NCAA tourney and had pushed to reach this stage for this for so long, they really laid an egg.

--Jason "yes, I am pissed because I had them in the Sweet 16" Evans

I went to bed thinking Clemson had this wrapped up. They need their big men to be big men. That is a big disappointment for the ACC. They had all the elements to make a run. I am thinking they went into the game with a lot of adrenaline and then relaxed at half time and could never recover. But what a series of games in that Pod. Of course, UCLA and Kansas benefited the most from Tampa, should they hold serve this round as expected.

ugadevil
03-22-2008, 08:32 AM
I watched the majority of the Clemson game, and still can't believe that team. Talk about giving the game away...they have so much talent and so much potential, but they just disappear at times. Really, they were fortunate to get back in it at the end with the technical foul on Jay Wright. I think Oliver Purnell needs to start recruiting guys based on free throw shooting ability. Not only did Clemson leave points at the FT Line, you could tell that the misses were affecting them mentally, which then impacted the rest of their game.

Chard
03-22-2008, 10:09 AM
Ug. Hit some ft's and Clemson may have advanced. 18 point lead in the 1st? Gone.

I noticed that Villanova was able to bang with Clemson. When Villanova fouled, Clemson was unable to convert. It was basically a turnover. Also, Hammonds went 0-6 from three point land. What's with the ACC seniors?

Clemson just added to the "Duke gets everyones best shot" theory two games in a row.

Windsor
03-22-2008, 11:15 AM
I was at the Tampa games yesterday (wow...what a day!!) Clemson, even with a first half lead of 18 look unsettle and ragged. I was really surpised that during the first half that the game was not very physcal. During half time in line at the concession stand some of the Clemson faithful were really ragging on some Villanova folks - when some orange clad yahoo said 'no one comes back from 18 down on us' I told the 'Nova fans to run to the locker room and get their team some light blue jerseys and Clemson would fold up like a lawn chair.

Second half Villanova started to pound on Clemson and they had no answer Villanova's offense the entire game could best be describe as 'frantic' I only can remember a handful of times where they ran a deliberate offensive set. It seemed to be contagious - Clemson's offense was all over the place. When 'Nova's coach got the 'T' late and Clemson tied it up I though that would be it for them...but they refused to go away. They hit their free throws down the stretch. I though it was interesting that when Oglesby missed at 1:24 and they were down only four the Clemson 'faithful' started heading for the exits!

It was a great day in Tampa: In other games...I love Siena. Love 'em! Great fans, great kids. San Diego had the loudest 20 person cheering section I've ever heard. That was great game. You could feel San Diego start to beieve they could win, and the crowd was behind them. Western Kentucky? Second greatest buzzer beater I've ever seen.

delfrio
03-22-2008, 11:52 AM
I thought Oglesby really helped give that game away. He'll probably be a great player (in the mold of someone opposing fans love to hate, with all the fouls drawn), but he seemed out of control. Throwing up rushed, covered shots and wild passes really hurt Clemson's chances at crunch time.

ugadevil
03-23-2008, 03:53 PM
OK...Stephen Curry! Are you kidding me?!?!?!?!?!?!

Chard
03-23-2008, 04:01 PM
Ha, ha! I'm glad to see another poster is watching this. Go, Davidson!

dyedwab
03-23-2008, 04:09 PM
Upsets Georgetown, 74-70.

Stephen Curry is just an amazing, amazing player.....Wow!

OldSchool
03-23-2008, 04:14 PM
Davidson literally a giant-killer today!

This tournament was almost a massacre for the #2 seeds this weekend - Duke and Georgetown going down, Butler very nearly taking down Tennessee and Texas surviving a Miami comeback at the end.

billybreen
03-23-2008, 04:17 PM
Awesome for Davidson. In my fun (not for money) bracket, I picked that game. I look like a rock star (for now).

prefan21
03-23-2008, 04:18 PM
Davidson literally a giant-killer today!

This tournament was almost a massacre for the #2 seeds this weekend - Duke and Georgetown going down, Butler very nearly taking down Tennessee and Texas surviving a Miami comeback at the end.

I loved the little score panel at the bottom of the screen:

DAVID 74 GTOWN 70 looked a little like DAVID 74 GOLIATH 70 :cool:

Cavlaw
03-23-2008, 04:21 PM
Wow! Brilliant! I have a sweet sixteen team to cheer for after all!

Ann Arbor Devil
03-23-2008, 04:22 PM
Sad to say, but somehow this loss makes me feel better about ours by showing the Russian Roulette nature of the tourney. Imagine how difficult it would have been to stomach blowing a 17 pt 2nd half lead.

Somehow the Hoyas lost despite shooting 63% from the field. Amazing.

dyedwab
03-23-2008, 04:24 PM
Imagine how difficult it would have been to stomach blowing a 17 pt 2nd half lead..

Bad memory, Duke-KY, St. Pete, 1998

Indoor66
03-23-2008, 04:30 PM
Sad to say, but somehow this loss makes me feel better about ours by showing the Russian Roulette nature of the tourney. Imagine how difficult it would have been to stomach blowing a 17 pt 2nd half lead.

Somehow the Hoyas lost despite shooting 63% from the field. Amazing.

...but under (?) 60% for free throws! ;)

Classof06
03-23-2008, 04:33 PM
Curry is quickly getting the recognition he should've been receiving all along. What a player. 40 points in the first game, 30 in the next? Are you kidding me? I'm sure the people at Virginia Tech are trying to figure out why they didn't give the kid an offer despite his father being one of the best players to ever play there. That's gotta hurt.

pfrduke
03-23-2008, 04:37 PM
Curry is quickly getting the recognition he should've been receiving all along. What a player. 40 points in the first game, 30 in the next? Are you kidding me? I'm sure the people at Virginia Tech are trying to figure out why they didn't give the kid an offer despite his father being one of the best players to ever play there. That's gotta hurt.

Well, they did offer him the chance to walk on.

YmoBeThere
03-23-2008, 04:48 PM
Sad to say, but somehow this loss makes me feel better about ours by showing the Russian Roulette nature of the tourney.

Agree with you on the nature of the tourney, Georgetown had 4 of 5 starters back from a solid Final Four team last year...I'm feeling much better. Maybe misery loves company?

Wander
03-23-2008, 05:28 PM
Curry for president?

SMO
03-23-2008, 06:08 PM
Curry for president?

40 in round 1, 30 in round 2, and EVERYONE knows he's the guy they need to stop to beat Davidson yet no one could do it this week. Doesn't he have 2 more years of eligibility as well? He should really get some consideration for NPOY. If not this year, then next.

bigj4194
03-23-2008, 06:12 PM
So this kills my bracket, not like its not dead already, but GO DAVIDSON!!!!!

I really want them to move on!

Curry is playing out of his mind...so fun to watch

appzter
03-23-2008, 06:29 PM
I was at this game. The atmosphere was amazing for them, since the UNC fans also were behind them (which made up a good 90% of the crowd). Curry was amazing.

(I left at halftime of the UNC/Arkansas game.)

kydevil
03-23-2008, 06:36 PM
(I left at halftime of the UNC/Arkansas game.)

I don't blame you :mad:

NYC Duke Fan
03-23-2008, 06:53 PM
I have posted here on several occaisions that the reason Duke cannot win an NCAA championship is because they do not have an inside presense and/or athletic forwards. Well Georgetown killed that arguement...they had them but still went out in the second round.

Maybe it isn't all so bleak for next year.

NYC Duke Fan
03-23-2008, 07:00 PM
If UNC wins the tournament does it vault Roy up to be the equal of Billy Donovan as the best coach right now in college basketball ?

Karl Beem
03-23-2008, 07:31 PM
I have posted here on several occaisions that the reason Duke cannot win an NCAA championship is because they do not have an inside presense and/or athletic forwards. Well Georgetown killed that arguement...they had them but still went out in the second round.

Maybe it isn't all so bleak for next year.

Don't forget, neither of the teams we played this weekend had an inside banger.

wiscodevil
03-23-2008, 08:54 PM
Tongue inserted in cheek.

I mean sure JT III can land great big men, but jeez, they lost to Davidson! I mean how many of Davidson's recruits were McDonald's All-Americans? A # 2 seed losing to a #10 seed! I mean, Duke beat Davidson this year for chrissakes!

And Curry was their only threat and they still couldn't stop him. What kind of defensive coaching is that?!? They just never adjusted!

It's time to ditch the Princeton-style offense too!

What Georgetown need is some better shooters, or I don't see them ever getting back to the FF. Look how many recruits they missed out on!

Plus, Hibbert really didn't develop like Mutumbo, Mourning and Ewing.

Tongue out of cheek.

wiscodevil
03-23-2008, 08:57 PM
Tongue inserted in cheek.

I mean sure JT III can land great big men, but jeez, they lost to Davidson! I mean how many of Davidson's recruits were McDonald's All-Americans? A # 2 seed losing to a #10 seed! I mean, Duke beat Davidson this year for chrissakes!

And Curry was their only threat and they still couldn't stop him. What kind of defensive coaching is that?!? They just never adjusted!

It's time to ditch the Princeton-style offense too!

What Georgetown need is some better shooters, or I don't see them ever getting back to the FF. Look how many recruits they missed out on!

Plus, Hibbert really didn't develop like Mutumbo, Mourning and Ewing.

Tongue out of cheek.

28-6, 15-3, no Big East crown. Disappointing year.

dkbaseball
03-24-2008, 11:06 PM
As someone who follows Wisconsin (the grad school alma mater) closely, I've finally gotten to the point where I have to correct the standard misperception about this team, repeated by DBR today. Just because they play two 6-11 white guys at center, that does not mean they are a slow team. Their starting guard tandem is as quick as any in the country. Both are lock-down defenders, and one can penetrate with the ball whenever he wants to. One of their starting forwards is a great leaper, the other one is extremely strong and has good lateral quickness that allows him to guard quick wings, as well as strong bigs. Against Kansas State he rotated effectively between guarding Michael Beasley and Bill Walker. The two 6-11 guys seldom play together, though they both started against Duke because Michael Flowers had missed two weeks. These two are not athletic, but they clog the middle effectively on defense, and play effectively on the perimeter on offense. More often than not, they have been on the bench during crunch time, with three guards and two forwards on the floor -- a very quick unit.

Though Markie and Gerald were effective taking their men to the hoop, Duke didn't beat Wisconsin with superior athleticism, they won because Paulus and King scored 34 points, mostly from well outside the range to which Bo Ryan was willing to extend his defense.

This team has been underrated all year, in part because of the Duke game, and they have used it to their advantage. I think they're coming out of the Midwest, and if they face Carolina will have some very favorable defensive match-ups.