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View Full Version : DeMarcus ACC DPOY, Kyle ACC ROY



pratt '04
03-11-2008, 03:09 PM
Hansbrough unanimous POY

Greenberg COY

Congrats to all!

WRAL (http://www.wral.com/sports/story/2558972/?d_hoopshq=1)

jimsumner
03-11-2008, 03:11 PM
2008 All-ACC Men’s Basketball Individual Awards
(90 Total Votes)


DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR – DeMarcus Nelson, Duke (39)
(Receiving 5-or-more votes) – Toney Douglas, Florida State (17); James Gist, Maryland (11) Marcus Ginyard, North Carolina (9), Tyrelle Blair, Boston College (6)

ROOKIE OF THE YEAR – Kyle Singler, Duke (44) (Receiving 5-or-more votes) – James Johnson, Wake Forest (30); J.J. Hickson, NC State (11)

COACH OF THE YEAR – Seth Greenberg, Virginia Tech (25)
(Receiving votes) – Frank Haith, Miami (23); Roy Williams, North Carolina (17); Oliver Purnell, Clemson (15); Mike Krzyzewski, Duke (8); Dino Gaudio, Wake Forest (2)

PLAYER OF THE YEAR – Tyler Hansbrough, North Carolina (90)* *unanimous

DukePA
03-11-2008, 03:17 PM
What has Seth Greenburg done this year to deserve COY? I haven't paid enough attention to VT to know the answer.

Thanks

FerryFor50
03-11-2008, 03:21 PM
What has Seth Greenburg done this year to deserve COY? I haven't paid enough attention to VT to know the answer.

Thanks

Prevented Deron Washington from breaking someone's leg in a game.

Other than that, went 18-12 overall and 9-7 in the ACC and is looking at the NIT if they don't make some ACC tourny noise.

Worst is that Duke was picked to finish 3rd or worse by some people, and they nearly won the regular season title, and Coach K gets 8 measly votes.

Madrasdukie
03-11-2008, 03:23 PM
2008 All-ACC Men’s Basketball Individual Awards
(90 Total Votes)


DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR – DeMarcus Nelson, Duke (39)
(Receiving 5-or-more votes) – Toney Douglas, Florida State (17); James Gist, Maryland (11) Marcus Ginyard, North Carolina (9), Tyrelle Blair, Boston College (6)

ROOKIE OF THE YEAR – Kyle Singler, Duke (44) (Receiving 5-or-more votes) – James Johnson, Wake Forest (30); J.J. Hickson, NC State (11)

COACH OF THE YEAR – Seth Greenberg, Virginia Tech (25)
(Receiving votes) – Frank Haith, Miami (23); Roy Williams, North Carolina (17); Oliver Purnell, Clemson (15); Mike Krzyzewski, Duke (8); Dino Gaudio, Wake Forest (2)

PLAYER OF THE YEAR – Tyler Hansbrough, North Carolina (90)* *unanimous

Nice to know that DeMarcus and Kyle seperated themselves from their competitors by this much. Congrats to them.

So, K is COY in the USBWA District III but not within the ACC - interesting !!

8 votes for a coach who played without a big man, and 17 for a guy who didn't have his star pg and back up pg but did have a senior pg...I'm sure K doesn't care.

Mike Corey
03-11-2008, 03:23 PM
Welp, Jim Sumner was right. Some of them are likeable results; some of them are not.

8 votes for Coach K? Sheesh.

dukelifer
03-11-2008, 03:24 PM
What has Seth Greenburg done this year to deserve COY? I haven't paid enough attention to VT to know the answer.

Thanks

VT played the easiest ACC schedule and finished 9-7. They played pretty well down the stretch- but perhaps Pernell should have gotten the nod. But this year- no one really stood out. I wonder if any of the coaches have contracts where they get bonuses if they get COY?

Devil07
03-11-2008, 03:27 PM
The coaching vote makes no sense to me. Like everyone else said, what exactly has Va Tech done this year to win Greenberg the title? And only 2 votes for Gaudio? What he did with that team after what they endured deserves way more respect in my opinion.

Chitowndevil
03-11-2008, 03:30 PM
Seth Greenberg COY, are you kidding me?! We are giving out coaching awards to guys whose teams do not win a single game against a top 50 RPI opponent? IMO K, Haith, Purnell, Gaudio, and even Roy did far better coaching jobs this year. Great to hear about Kyle and DeMarcus, though.

RepoMan
03-11-2008, 03:39 PM
While I don't understand how K comes in fifth place, well behind Roy, I don't have a problem with Greenberg's win. While there are a host of ways to look at the coaching award, one legitimate way is to ask the question "who achievest the best results with the least talent." From that perspective, Greenberg is a solid and respectable choice, regardless of the relative quality of his team's conference schedule. Of course, if that was the only criteria ever applied, guys like K and Roy would never win, which seems wrong, though semi-understandable on a year-year basis. In any event, I can respect the Greenberg decision.

Duvall
03-11-2008, 03:42 PM
Greenberg's win is a joke. Miami played five games against UNC, Duke and Clemson and went 2-3; Virginia Tech played three during the softest league schedule and lost all three. Miami beat Virginia Tech in Blacksburg. Miami had quality wins outside the conference, which why they will be in the NCAA tournament while Virginia Tech will be in the NIT. Miami was picked to finish last in the preseason, Virginia Tech was picked to finish tenth.

It's a joke.

RepoMan
03-11-2008, 03:45 PM
Greenberg's win is a joke.

Which roster would you pick if you had to win a game?

I don't really care who wins the award, but just trying to offer explanations as to why reasonable people may have voted the way they did.

TNTDevil
03-11-2008, 03:45 PM
Seth Greenberg COY, are you kidding me?! We are giving out coaching awards to guys whose teams do not win a single game against a top 50 RPI opponent? IMO K, Haith, Purnell, Gaudio, and even Roy did far better coaching jobs this year. Great to hear about Kyle and DeMarcus, though.Completely agree. Greenberg is not deserving of this honour. Haith deserved it more as his team has a shot (if not locked) for the NCAA's.

I just don't see how it went towards SG. Weakest ACC schedule, no quality wins and no meaningful post-season play. Not to mention his team's thuggish behavior.

I'm completely stunned!

Had I a vote:
Haith
Purnell
K
Gaudio

Duvall
03-11-2008, 03:49 PM
Which roster would you pick if you had to win a game?

I've never liked this reasoning, since coaches are responsible for assembling the rosters.

Miami performed better than Virginia Tech this season and exceeded expectations more. I really don't see how a reasonable person could vote for Greenberg.

RepoMan
03-11-2008, 03:53 PM
I've never liked this reasoning, since coaches are responsible for assembling the rosters.


I should stop, because I really don't care, but . . .

You can't really mean that. Say Duke one year had unexpected NBA departures and the following year came in with an undermanned team, yet still won the conference. That suggests a better "coaching" job than a season in which the players at issue did not go to the NBA and Duke won the title. And, in both cases, K was "responsible for assembling the rosters."

PatZorro
03-11-2008, 03:54 PM
People, take off the Duke Blue blinders.

Did Duke overachieve? Not really. We finished 2nd in the conference. Some people might have said we were 3rd pre-season, but those yahoos were very few, and very far between. Essentially, we finished exactly were the VAAAASST majority of prognosticators predicted.

Well, a lot of people on this board thought we would be No. 1 over UNC, so by their expectations we underachieved.

We only lost one significant player from the 06-07 season, whom it was universally agreed upon that he was a locker room cancer, and replaced him with 3 All Americans to go with the slew of All Americans already in town. We had a lot of talent in place.

Va Tech on the other hand really overachieved. Virtually no one had them finishing better than the 3rd WORST team in conference. This board continually states that College ball in driven by guard play, but VT lost both of their outstanding guards to graduation. Washington is a complete head case, yet Greenberg kept him from damaging the team.

Frankly, no one did a standout job coaching in the ACC. Purnell did a good job from historic perspective, in that Clemson is getting into the NCAAs for the first time in aeons, but he finished third with the third most talented team in the ACC. They whistled away two sure wins over UNC. Those collapeses put the kybosh on his chances.

K innovated with the current team, but what other options did he have given the current roster.

UNC still refuses to play any D, and they won a lot of close games that should have been blowouts, so he can't get it.

Gaudio at WFU had it in the bag until their late season collapse.

I mean, Seth didn't blow anyone away, but who did in the ACC this year. For that matter, who nationally jumps out at you?

We all like K. But the reality is that he finished right were most people thought he would, playing the ONLY style of basketball that would allow this year's roster to win games.

Seth is a jerk. But he did a quality job with a roster pretty devoid of talent, that lost its star back court from the previous year.

PatZorro

wisteria
03-11-2008, 04:12 PM
I would like to point this out:

Kyle Singler is only the 2nd ACC-ROY that Coach K has ever had !
Before Singler, Duhon was the only one under Coach K!

I was really surprised to find out this.

sandinmyshoes
03-11-2008, 04:13 PM
Congrats to Singler and Nelson. Great senior year for DeMarcus.

As for the COY, I've got to be in the Haith camp. Picked for last, finished fifth against a much tougher slate than VaTech had. As for rosters, if Miami's roster is better than VaTech's, then why was Miami picked to finish last? If a coach does a good job, then of course his players are going to look better.

But, Seth did do a pretty good job.

I'm surprised Williams finished with as many votes as he did, I guess he's getting some credit for mustering his players past the injuries to Frasor, Lawson and whoever else they were making sure everyone knew was injured. Maybe that's why Williams makes sure the injuries are known. :p

sandinmyshoes
03-11-2008, 04:14 PM
I would like to point this out:

Kyle Singler is only the 2nd ACC-ROY that Coach K has ever had !
Before Singler, Duhon was the only one under Coach K!

I was really surprised to find out this.


I did not know that. Who came in to the conference the same year as Johnny Dawkins? He had a great freshman year, as I recall.

Duvall
03-11-2008, 04:21 PM
I should stop, because I really don't care, but . . .

You can't really mean that. Say Duke one year had unexpected NBA departures and the following year came in with an undermanned team, yet still won the conference. That suggests a better "coaching" job than a season in which the players at issue did not go to the NBA and Duke won the title. And, in both cases, K was "responsible for assembling the rosters."

There's more than one way to do a good coaching job. The coach that assembles a juggernaut and rolls over the league deserves to be rewarded, as does the coach that wins the league with an undermanned team. What I reject is the idea that the latter scenario reflects better coaching than the former. Winning is winning.

BlueBlood112883
03-11-2008, 04:23 PM
Personally I think Haith should have got it. I mean they were picked last dead last in the pre-season, and are pretty much in the NCAA's unless they tank against NC State on Thur.

Lavabe
03-11-2008, 04:32 PM
I did not know that. Who came in to the conference the same year as Johnny Dawkins? He had a great freshman year, as I recall.

If we're talking 1983, Johnny D didn't have nearly the season that Mark Price had. Price won the 1983 Frosh award, while leading the ACC in pts. per game (I believe he averaged 20 pts per game). IIRC, he was the first ACC frosh to lead the conference in scoring.

Dawkins was on an 11-17 team and averaged 18 pts per game.

Cheers,
Lavabe

sagegrouse
03-11-2008, 04:34 PM
I did not know that. Who came in to the conference the same year as Johnny Dawkins? He had a great freshman year, as I recall.

Mark Price of GT averaged 20.3 PPG his freshman year, 2002-2003:

http://www.sportsstats.com/jazzyj/greats/86/price-m.htm

Moreover, IIRC, in '83 (and '84) Dawkins and Alarie were viewed as comparable talents, thereby tending to split any ROY vote. (Jim Sumner tends to correct my many solipsisms, anachronisms, and just plain screw-ups.)

sagegrouse

Madrasdukie
03-11-2008, 04:37 PM
http://www.dukeupdate.com/Records/acc_rookie_of_the_year.htm

RepoMan
03-11-2008, 04:53 PM
What I reject is the idea that the latter scenario reflects better coaching than the former. Winning is winning.

Fair enough. Both are ways to measure coaching achievment. I can see disagreeing with the Greenberg selection, I just think calling it a "joke" is a bit extreme.

VaDukie
03-11-2008, 04:58 PM
I would like to point this out:

Kyle Singler is only the 2nd ACC-ROY that Coach K has ever had !
Before Singler, Duhon was the only one under Coach K!

I was really surprised to find out this.

Here's to hoping this year ends as well as Duhon's rookie year :D

johnb
03-11-2008, 05:09 PM
Coaching involves more than winning. Greenberg should be held responsible for the thuggish behavior of his players. I don't care where K comes in the voting--it's like whether or not Brett Favre gets the award for Wisconsin qb of the year, but I do care that the voters rewarded somebody who condones behavior that could get people hurt.

jimsumner
03-11-2008, 05:15 PM
"Who came in to the conference the same year as Johnny Dawkins?"

1983 was an incredible year for ACC freshmen. In addition to Dawkins and Price, we had Mark Alarie, David Henderson, Jay Bilas, Brad Daugherty, Steve Hale, Len Bias, John Salley, Ernie Myers, and Kenny Green.

Others? Amaker lost to Bruce Dalrymple, Hurley to Kenny Anderson, Grant to Rodney Rodgers, Redick to Chris Bosh. Brand broke his foot, Ferry, Laettner, and Battier were role players on experienced teams.

No problem with any of those votes. The two times where Duke had a legit complaint?

2000, when Joseph Forte edged Jason Williams. Forte averaged more points but JW took over as a freshman PG on a very young team and QB'd that team to a 15-1 conference record, while averaging 14.5 ppg and 6 apg. Not too shabby.

Then 2004, when Chris Paul edged Luol Deng. Both had great stats but Duke's team success should (IMO) have tilted that vote Deng's way.

OZZIE4DUKE
03-11-2008, 05:20 PM
Here's to hoping this year ends as well as Duhon's rookie year :D

I second the motion!:D

And Haith would have gotten my vote for COY

wilko
03-11-2008, 10:25 PM
COACH OF THE YEAR – Seth Greenberg, Virginia Tech (25)
(Receiving votes) – Frank Haith, Miami (23); Roy Williams, North Carolina (17); Oliver Purnell, Clemson (15); Mike Krzyzewski, Duke (8); Dino Gaudio, Wake Forest (2)

Who cares about these other scrubs. The only purpose they serve is to be fodder to bolster our greatness.

K got screwed.

RelativeWays
03-11-2008, 10:37 PM
I think Frank Haith should have received COTY, Greenberg and VT kind of blundered their way to their position in the ACC. Not saying he didn't do a good job, he lost like 4 seniors from last years team. Miami was more impressive I think.

UrinalCake
03-12-2008, 12:51 PM
Great to see DeMarcus recognized for his defense, which is an aspect of his game that isn't given nearly enough attention. I'm curious what everyone thinks about his chances as a pro? Unfortunately, he is woefully undersized to play the 3 or even the 2, so I'm not sure he'll get drafted very highly. His leadership and defense are probably his best attributes, but I don't think these are valued very much in the NBA.

Is there a current or past NBA player you could compare him to?

Slackerb
03-12-2008, 01:07 PM
Out of curiousity, why didn't JJ Hickson get more FOY votes, besides the fact that he's on an awful team?

He lead ACC freshmen in scoring (EDIT: looks like Johnson pulled away at the end and actually led in scoring), rebounding, blocks, FG %, Points per second, etc. and actually played less than Singler or Johnson. He set the ACC freshman single game rebounding record with 23...

I love watching Singler play, and he's very talented and played very well this year, but why was he an automatic lock for ROY over Johnson and especially Hickson?

pratt '04
03-12-2008, 01:36 PM
I love watching Singler play, and he's very talented and played very well this year, but why was he an automatic lock for ROY over Johnson and especially Hickson?

I don't think that Singler was an automatic lock. There was a lot of debate over the past week as to who the ROY award would go to. My guess is that team success helped the voters to separate Singler from Hickson and Johnson. All three are very good players and each had an excellent regular season, but Singler is the only one starting and contributing to a team that is a contender in the conference and on the national scene.

jimsumner
03-12-2008, 01:58 PM
RE: Hickson. Two factors worked against him. One is his drop-off in conference games. His scoring average dropped to 12.5 ppg in ACC games, well behind Johnson and Singler. The second is team success. Duke finished second in the ACC, State finished 12th, Wake in the middle. That's a significant factor when the individual stats are as close as those of Singler, Johnson, and Hickson.

OldSchool
03-12-2008, 02:05 PM
I really hate the unbalanced schedule in the expanded ACC.

VaTech played only 4 games against the 4 best teams in the league (based on overall record - UNC, Duke, Clemson, Miami) and went 0-4 and played 7 games against the 4 worst teams in the league (GT, VA, NCST, BC) and went 5-2.

If the luck of the draw had been reversed, and Greenberg had to play 7 games against the best 4 and only 4 games against the worst 4, he could very easily be sitting with a 7-9 league record and a 16-14 overall record, and I very much doubt he would be voted COY.

Also, it would make more sense to me if they waited until after the ACCT to vote - if, for example, Greenberg were to run the table in the ACCT then he might be more deserving of it.