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jimsumner
03-10-2008, 03:19 PM
http://www.wral.com/sports/story/2552831/?d_hoopshq=1

Nelson first team, Singler and Paulus third team.

Singler all-freshman.

Nelson all defense.

Individual awards tomorrow.

Lotus000
03-10-2008, 03:25 PM
Congrats to Markie!!!

The only 'surprise' for me was McClinton. The other four are who I thought would be in there.

tonymac
03-10-2008, 03:31 PM
The words "Hansbrough" and "All Defense" should never be used in the same paragraph, much less the same sentence. I know it's honorable mention, but come on. Now, if there was an all defensive rebounding team, he's a first teamer. Do these writers watch the same games I watch? Color me perplexed.

gewwang
03-10-2008, 03:40 PM
Didn't Hansbrough lead the ACC in charges taken?

VaDukie
03-10-2008, 03:50 PM
Singler and D-Marc look like good bets to be named ROY and DPOY.

Madrasdukie
03-10-2008, 04:00 PM
Congrats to DeMarcus, Kyle and Greg. I have to admit I'm somewhat sad that Jon wasn't even an honorable mention - I haven't compared the stats but he was absolutely critical to our success so far.

jimsumner
03-10-2008, 04:23 PM
FWIW, Duke only pushed Nelson, Singler, and Paulus for All-ACC. That makes it hard for someone like Scheyer (or Henderson) to get votes.

Singler got slightly more ROY votes than Johnson and Nelson slightly more DPOY votes than anyone else. This bodes well for tomorrow but is not a guarantee. For example, in 1967 Bob Verga got the most points for All-ACC but Larry Miller edged him for POY. And don't get me started on 1966.

wumhenry
03-10-2008, 04:26 PM
I see that Singler got more points than any other freshman in the All-ACC ranking. When do they announce ACC Rookie of the Year?

jimsumner
03-10-2008, 04:28 PM
Player of the Year, Coach of the Year, Freshman of the Year, and Defensive Player of the Year will be announced tomorrow.

Madrasdukie
03-10-2008, 04:36 PM
FWIW, Duke only pushed Nelson, Singler, and Paulus for All-ACC. That makes it hard for someone like Scheyer (or Henderson) to get votes.

Singler got slightly more ROY votes than Johnson and Nelson slightly more DPOY votes than anyone else. This bodes well for tomorrow but is not a guarantee. For example, in 1967 Bob Verga got the most points for All-ACC but Larry Miller edged him for POY. And don't get me started on 1966.

Thanks for the info.

I don't understand the selection process and hence a few questions:

Is Duke (or any other ACC team) limited in the number of players it nominates ("pushes") ? , is there a disadvantage to pushing too many players ?

dukelifer
03-10-2008, 07:00 PM
Didn't Hansbrough lead the ACC in charges taken?

He does foul out more players than anyone- that is sort of a defensive play.

roywhite
03-10-2008, 07:31 PM
FWIW, Duke only pushed Nelson, Singler, and Paulus for All-ACC. That makes it hard for someone like Scheyer (or Henderson) to get votes.

Singler got slightly more ROY votes than Johnson and Nelson slightly more DPOY votes than anyone else. This bodes well for tomorrow but is not a guarantee. For example, in 1967 Bob Verga got the most points for All-ACC but Larry Miller edged him for POY. And don't get me started on 1966.


1966 was at the early stages of my ACC fandom, but that would have been Duke's Steve Vacendak as POY and not 1st-team All-ACC, is that right?

Ignatius07
03-10-2008, 08:02 PM
Is Duke (or any other ACC team) limited in the number of players it nominates ("pushes") ? , is there a disadvantage to pushing too many players ?

I would assume you run the risk of saturating the "market." So they figured it was probably better for their kids to not push Scheyer - who might earn some votes at the expense of our other guards, and drop Paulus to Honorable Mention or off the list entirely. The staff - wisely, most likely - determined that three guards (no matter how many we play!) were not going to make the All-ACC teams from the same school.

jimsumner
03-10-2008, 08:51 PM
"1966 was at the early stages of my ACC fandom, but that would have been Duke's Steve Vacendak as POY and not 1st-team All-ACC, is that right?"

I told you not to get me started. :)

Condensed version. Voting for All-ACC team takes place at end of regular season. First team consists of Jack Marin and Bob Verga from Duke, Bob Lewis from UNC, Eddie Biedenbach from State, and Bob Leonard from Wake. UNC's Larry Miller was sixth in the voting,just missing first team.

Vacendak was NINTH in voting for All-ACC.

Fast forward a week, top-seeded Duke holds off spirited upset bids by UNC
(21-20) and NCSU (71-66) to win the title. The POY voting was then taken after the tourny. Vacendak was voted ACC POY.

Now, if Vacendak was good enough to be voted ACC POY on March 6, then shouldn't he have been better than 9th-best player a week earlier? Or conversely, if Vacendak was 9th best player after 22 games, how could he have been best after 25 games? In case you're wondering, Vacendak had 30 points in the tourny, 18 of them in the title game. Pretty good, but still.

If Vacendak shouldn't have won, who should have? Bob Lewis led everybody in the all-conference voting with 191 points, followed closely by Marin at
187. Lewis led the ACC with 27.4 ppg but UNC finished 8-6 in the league. Marin averaged 18.9 ppg and 9.7 rpg for a 12-2 ACC team. He also was a great defensive player; Bubas has always maintained that Marin was the most versatile player he ever coached.

So my retrospective vote goes to Marin. But I suspect we won't be getting a revote any time soon.

BTW, the ACC quickly changed and started naming POY before the tourny.

jimsumner
03-10-2008, 08:56 PM
"I would assume you run the risk of saturating the "market." "

Correct. And it also speaks to credibility. If Duke nominates Dave McClure or State pushed Ben McCauley, then their credibility suffers.

There is no limit other than credibility. In 1999 Duke placed five players on the All-ACC team, Brand and Langdon on the first team, Avery on the second (just missed first), and Carrawell and Battier on the third. Of course, that team dominated ACC play as never before or never since, so it's hard to argue the point.

Madrasdukie
03-11-2008, 11:14 AM
I would assume you run the risk of saturating the "market." So they figured it was probably better for their kids to not push Scheyer - who might earn some votes at the expense of our other guards, and drop Paulus to Honorable Mention or off the list entirely. The staff - wisely, most likely - determined that three guards (no matter how many we play!) were not going to make the All-ACC teams from the same school.

Makes sense, though I still feel in an ideal world Scheyer should have gotten at least honorable mention.


If Duke nominates Dave McClure or State pushed Ben McCauley, then their credibility suffers.

Sure, no question about that. However, Scheyer as opposed to McClure, I don't think would adversely affect Duke's credibility.


There is no limit other than credibility. In 1999 Duke placed five players on the All-ACC team, Brand and Langdon on the first team, Avery on the second (just missed first), and Carrawell and Battier on the third. Of course, that team dominated ACC play as never before or never since, so it's hard to argue the point.

Yup! I agree from a credibility stand-point that it was much easier for Duke to nominate four players from the '99 team.