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Channing
03-10-2008, 01:12 PM
This was touched on in the Clemson/Va Tech thread, but I wanted to address it in a different thread.

I wish all conferences adopted the same rules the SEC has. I believe that the first time a school rushes the court/ field its a warning, second time 25k fine. Not sure if the fine increases each subsequent time.

I saw Clemson rush against Va Tech, I saw PSU rush against IU, and I saw one other rushing incident (the teams escape) me. I understand that the fans are amped up and looking to celebrate, but it is just a matter of time (almost happened at Memphis/UAB) until some serious damage is done. I mean, with a guy like Deron Washington on the court, if a student yelled something at him or brushed him on his way to center court, especially right after an emotional loss, things could get ugly.

One of the cardinal rules in basketball is that the players do not, under any circumstances, go into the crowd. So why is it alright that the crowd comes into the player's domain?

Is it beyond anyone's imagination that a team beats Duke, and as the fans are rushing the court some fans decide, in their exuberance, to "run into" Paulus (seeing as he is so dearly loved outside of Durham)?

Perhaps I am being an elitist snob - but I don't think rushing the court is ever appropriate (that said - I was among the crowd that rushed against Ga Tech back in 03 in football)

weezie
03-10-2008, 01:56 PM
The great NCAA is far too worried about players getting free pizzas to protect them from a mob scene on the court.

What?! Enact forfeit rules with teeth?

Silly steven52682!

blazindw
03-10-2008, 02:25 PM
This was touched on in the Clemson/Va Tech thread, but I wanted to address it in a different thread.

I wish all conferences adopted the same rules the SEC has. I believe that the first time a school rushes the court/ field its a warning, second time 25k fine. Not sure if the fine increases each subsequent time.

I saw Clemson rush against Va Tech, I saw PSU rush against IU, and I saw one other rushing incident (the teams escape) me. I understand that the fans are amped up and looking to celebrate, but it is just a matter of time (almost happened at Memphis/UAB) until some serious damage is done. I mean, with a guy like Deron Washington on the court, if a student yelled something at him or brushed him on his way to center court, especially right after an emotional loss, things could get ugly.

One of the cardinal rules in basketball is that the players do not, under any circumstances, go into the crowd. So why is it alright that the crowd comes into the player's domain?

Is it beyond anyone's imagination that a team beats Duke, and as the fans are rushing the court some fans decide, in their exuberance, to "run into" Paulus (seeing as he is so dearly loved outside of Durham)?

Perhaps I am being an elitist snob - but I don't think rushing the court is ever appropriate (that said - I was among the crowd that rushed against Ga Tech back in 03 in football)

I too rushed the field for Georgia Tech in 2003 (and I have a piece of the tip of the goalpost as a momento from that day), and I also remember a similar rush of the field against ECU in 2002 (first game of my junior year, and the first victory we had since I'd been there). As long as schools plan for it and execute it in a way that allows the opposing team to get off the field/court safely, and allows for the fans to celebrate safely, I have no problems for it. When we rushed the field, security directed all the students to the middle of the field and allowed us to have the goalpost in the endzone at the closed part of the stadium. They filtered everyone away from the other side of the field so that the ECU/G. Tech players could exit the field without many problems. Now, this kind of filtering isn't possible at some stadiums obviously because of the size, but as long as some kind of plan is in place to make it so the people who want to get off the field can do so, let the kids have some fun and celebrate a big victory.

Now, Clemson rushing the floor...against V. Tech?? They won with a free throw with 1.9 seconds left, and it wasn't a "big" victory in my mind (unless they were celebrating the upset of getting the 3-seed in the ACC Tourney). Questionable.

Channing
03-10-2008, 02:29 PM
I think there is a slight difference between rushing a football stadium (which is a very large piece of real estate, and allows people to spread out) versus a basketball court which is so small and invariably has opposing players wading through throngs of fans.

I don't really like to see either, but I see some distinction.

As an aside, I think I saw some UCLA fans spill onto the court after Josh Shipp knocked the ball out of bounds in the CAL - UCLA game. The refs put time back on the clock - but shouldnt that have resulted in a technical foul? Its already been shown the refs blew the shot over the backboard call - but nobody really mentioned the fans on the court.

whereinthehellami
03-10-2008, 02:34 PM
I saw Clemson rush against Va Tech, I saw PSU rush against IU, and I saw one other rushing incident (the teams escape) me. I understand that the fans are amped up and looking to celebrate, but it is just a matter of time (almost happened at Memphis/UAB) until some serious damage is done.

One of the cardinal rules in basketball is that the players do not, under any circumstances, go into the crowd. So why is it alright that the crowd comes into the player's domain?

How do you feel about the student's sideline in Cameron? All of the students reaching out at the player trying to inbound the ball? I have always thought it was only a mater of time before a student touches an opposing player while doing that. Whether by accident or inebriation they are too close for comfort.

Channing
03-10-2008, 02:37 PM
How do you feel about the student's sideline in Cameron? All of the students reaching out at the player trying to inbound the ball? I have always thought it was only a mater of time before a student touches an opposing player while doing that. Whether by accident or inebriation they are too close for comfort.

my heart always beats a little faster when all the students hands are right on top of the guy - its asking for trouble, and I am surprised the referees dont ask the students to back off a little bit.

bdh21
03-10-2008, 02:38 PM
Now, Clemson rushing the floor...against V. Tech?? They won with a free throw with 1.9 seconds left, and it wasn't a "big" victory in my mind (unless they were celebrating the upset of getting the 3-seed in the ACC Tourney). Questionable.

To the defense of the court-storming Clemson students, not only did they win on senior night, but they accomplished two feats that many long thought impossible: they likely removed any doubt about their at-large chances (but in a good way this year), and they actually won a game because of free-throws! That in itself is worth celebrating.

Spret42
03-10-2008, 02:38 PM
I have always found it a bit rude for fans to assume it is their right to celebrate on the floor/field. To me, the court or field is ground which has to be earned and it should be left to those who play/coach. I may be wierd that way.

Cameron's students haven't touched anyone yet. It is really close, but as long as they show discipline and never over step, the stands are their domain as well.

dukegirlinsc
03-10-2008, 03:12 PM
I can't stand it under any circumstances unless its a National Championship. I don't know why it bothers me so bad, especially when there are some teams that seem to do it after several home games. (We just won by 11! AMEN!! STORM THE COURT!) I understand fans get excited, heck, I get excited with the best of them.

dukegirlinsc
03-10-2008, 03:14 PM
To the defense of the court-storming Clemson students, not only did they win on senior night, but they accomplished two feats that many long thought impossible: they likely removed any doubt about their at-large chances (but in a good way this year), and they actually won a game because of free-throws! That in itself is worth celebrating.

I've seen Clemson do it a few other times this year, not just yesterday.

Lotus000
03-10-2008, 03:19 PM
my heart always beats a little faster when all the students hands are right on top of the guy - its asking for trouble, and I am surprised the referees dont ask the students to back off a little bit.

They're behind the press, and not really THAT close to the inbounding player.

As far as rushing the court, I really don't think that students/fans should be out there. I think that for safety reasons--both fans AND players--it should be regulated like the SEC.

That being said, I *did* rush the court my freshman year when Horvath banked in the three to beat DePaul at the end of the game. So, I guess I'm a guilty party, but now I'm all grows up.

DukeFencer
03-10-2008, 06:25 PM
How do you feel about the student's sideline in Cameron? All of the students reaching out at the player trying to inbound the ball? I have always thought it was only a mater of time before a student touches an opposing player while doing that. Whether by accident or inebriation they are too close for comfort.

For the most part, I don't believe the most hard core fans (those in the front row) tend to be drunk. Watching a Duke basketball game in the student section of Cameron is really more of an athletic event (a 3 1/2-4 hour long athletic event since students are let in way before the game begins). You need balance, endurance, strong knees and the ability to stay hydrated.

I think the fans in the front row have the best concept of where the line is and how not to cross it. they invest too much in being fans to throw it away too quickly.

I agree that the SEC policy is a good one. It was very frustrating to watch the Duke-FSU game in Tallahassee 2 years ago. Fans rushed the court SUPER early, technical given, court cleared, but they did it at least one more time before the end of the game. I believe K eventually sent all of his starters off the court and put the walk-ons in the game to make sure that none of the stars got hurt.

Klemnop
03-10-2008, 09:44 PM
dukegirl, you must have some Gamecock in you. So sorry to hear that! ;)

I have also watched many Clemson games as well as attended a handful in the last three years. I can't recall the last time the students rushed the floor prior to yesterday except for Sharrod Ford's end-to-end lay-up at the buzzer to beat VaTech on Senior Day two years ago. It's also possible that they rushed the floor after beating Syracuse last year to earn a trip to MSG for the NIT Finals. I honestly can't recall another game.

Last year I took my kids up to watch Clemson vs. UGa. Clemson had the game well in hand toward the end and I manuevered us down near the court, hoping for a chance to walk on the floor - as I had after every home game during my time at Clemson. I can assure you that there were security in place and we were absolutely restricted from going onto the floor. We waited about 15 minutes hoping that attention might lapse...no dice.

I also noticed security personnel circling the arena yesterday. I can only assume that the throng overpowered them. Perhaps not for lack of trying.

There seems to be a bit of nonchalance among Duke fans regarding Clemson's victory yesterday. Maybe that's a hangover from Saturday night, I don't know. Regardless, yesterday was an absolutely huge victory for Clemson both historically and in the context of this year. In my LIFETIME Clemson has finished in the Top three in the ACC twice. (I'm 37.) Yesterday clinched the third entry into that rarified air. Maybe that's not a big deal to Blue Devils but it means a heck of a lot in Clemson. It's an accomplishment. Additionally we cemented an NCAA berth. In the last 10 years we've learned to appreciate the importance of such a thing. I dare say it is more coveted than a win over UNC at Chapel Hill or an ACC Tournament title. It's pretty damn depressing to get left out of the party year after year. So we're a bit excited to finally receive an invitation.

Not to mention we were celebrating a Senior class that has turned this program around. We're talking about a program that participated in the vaunted 8/9 play-in game for four consecutive seasons prior to Oliver Purnell's arrival. Purnell's first class of Hammonds, Mays, Perry and Cheyenne Moore weren't terribly highly regarded - but from the beginning you could tell that these weren't the same kinds of players that we were accustomed to seeing at Clemson. Their growth has been slow and somewhat stunted - and we've suffered more at our own hands than anyone else's...but we've finally arrived. If only for a moment. If only for once. We made it. And these are the guys that made it happen.

I think the team and fans had a lot to celebrate...and if you noticed the players stayed right there in the middle of it all. Enjoying every minute of it. It's not as if it was a gratuitous gesture by the fans and the players were all off in the locker room saying, "Get a life." It was a joyous moment that everyone shared.

On a related note, Clemson fans and family have been invited and *encouraged* to come onto the field at Death Valley after every home game from time immemorial. That's Clemson tradition. It's not "storming the field" - although sometimes there is a rush amongst the first students off the hill. It's a tradition. Every game. Win or lose. Beat FSU or App. State. We come on the field. I, for one, was sad to find out last season that that same privelege was no longer available at basketball games, although I understand the logistical problems.

All of which to say: It was our moment and we enjoyed it in our way. Why does anyone else care?

dukemomLA
03-11-2008, 12:13 AM
I watched the Clemson/VT game hooting and hollering all the way for the Tigers. I agree with Klemnop. This was a HUGE win for the Tigers. This is a terrific team and going dancing is well deserved. And equally deserving is the pleasure of not having to spend the next couple of weeks agonizing over "Bubble Watch."

There are (a few) instances where storming the court seems appropriate (to me), and this was one of them.

Also, Klemnop, I truly think Dukies were in pain over our loss to UNC. And perhaps not only the loss, but the lack of good play for a lot of the game. Thank God, they brought it on and at least redeemed themselves. This Duke team is one that has to bring it for a solid 40 minutes. And when they do, they're rather invincible.

I wouldn't want to match up with Duke OR Clemson (and needless to say UNC) in the tourney.

dukegirlinsc
03-11-2008, 01:44 AM
dukegirl, you must have some Gamecock in you. So sorry to hear that! ;)

You're right, it was entirely a personal attack on my part. :rolleyes:

I don't like it. Period. I don't like it if Duke students do it. I don't like it if Clemson students do it. I don't like it if North Carolina students do it. I don't like it if South Carolina students do it. I don't like it. Like I said earlier, about the only time I find it appropriate is maybe after a National Championship win, and even then, I doubt that would ever happen. As someone stated above
To me, the court or field is ground which has to be earned and it should be left to those who play/coach. And I agree with that 100%. It could be that my father was a football coach, and I used to hear him bitch about it growing up. Once again, nothing personal. It just erks me.

devildownunder
03-11-2008, 07:34 AM
I don't see why it's a problem for anyone. If someone doesn't like it, so what? There are plenty of things I don't like but that doesn't mean I want to take away other people's right to do them. That's a dangerous path to take.

Personally, I think it sort of makes the fans look unsophisticated if they do it too often or after wins that seem, well, less than monumental. But if that's what they want to do, more power to them. Hey, it's all about people having a good time. I don't feel that any of us should be playing the role of fun police.

As for the argument that it's dangerous, I suppose in theory it is, but I have never heard of anything serious happening out of one of those mob scenes, although as sure as I'm posting this I know someone is going to point out an instance or maybe even several. Be that as it may, it would appear from casual observation that the number of serious injuries resulting from those court rushes pales in comparison to the number suffered in the games that precede them (again, this is by casual obseration, no I cannot prove this).

Billy Dat
12-03-2009, 08:43 AM
I thought it was worth pointing out that a Duke loss resulted in yet another court storming last night. Guess beating Duke still means something, unless all those beers and brats make a court storm a mere formality in Madison.

uh_no
12-03-2009, 09:26 AM
I thought it was worth pointing out that a Duke loss resulted in yet another court storming last night. Guess beating Duke still means something, unless all those beers and brats make a court storm a mere formality in Madison.

it didn't hurt that we were ranked 5

CDu
12-03-2009, 10:27 AM
They're behind the press, and not really THAT close to the inbounding player.

The students are closer than you think. I was at a game in which a student was right in Will Solomon's (at least I'm pretty sure it was him) ear on a sideline inbounds play. Solomon handled it as well as I've seen a player handle it. He took the ball over his head (as if to throw a two-hand overhead pass), reached back a bit, and bounced the ball off the guy's head. The refs made the fans stand back a bit after that.

Press row is not that deep, and the fans reach WAY out over them. They're right there, and I don't agree with the previous poster that it's not at all appropriate.

RoyalBlue08
12-03-2009, 10:49 AM
I am waiting for the time in which we lose an away game and the students of school X both chant "overrated" and then storm the court after the game is over as if they won some sort of championship as well. Wait, I'm sure this has happened numerous times, lol.

I agree storming the floor might be a little dangerous, but more than anything, to me it looks pathetic. If you really need to celebrate a regular season win that bad, your team must not be very used to winning.

Battierfan01
12-03-2009, 11:12 AM
I agree storming the floor might be a little dangerous, but more than anything, to me it looks pathetic. If you really need to celebrate a regular season win that bad, your team must not be very used to winning.


I agree. I have heard Coach K say a couple of times that the Crazies should never storm the court after a game, because it makes it look like we were not expecting to win and surprised that we did.

allenmurray
12-03-2009, 11:32 AM
Is it beyond anyone's imagination that a team beats Duke, and as the fans are rushing the court some fans decide, in their exuberance, to "run into" Paulus (seeing as he is so dearly loved outside of Durham)?

I don't worry much about the intentional hurting of a player. I think most fans at tht point are being exuberant, not "mean". But I do think, sooner or later, we will see a player or fan hurt by accident. While scurrying to get "out of the way" of fans rushing the court, if a player was simply bumped hard from a bad angle (without any bad intention whatsoever) you could see a season ending injury (a blown knee perhaps). It simply is not worth that. Go burn a bench if you have to celebrate ;)

DukieBoy
12-03-2009, 12:25 PM
I don't think rushing the court is bad at all. College kids get very "into" games, especially big games. Now, in some cases, it's ridiculous (lower ranked team beating a higher ranked team)

However, but take this as an example. Purdue comes to IU this year ranked in the top 10. IU is still in rebuilding mode, hovering around .500. IU gives them a ball game the whole night. With 5 seconds left and the game tied, IU buries a 3 to win the game as time expires. Are you saying kids shouldn't rush the court at that point?

Sure it could lead to injury, but you can't say it's ok at a football game. THere are more people at a football game rushing the field. I think it's about the same comparison. And last night, I watched a replay of students rushing the court. Duke players quickly got to their bench where numerous security officials had surrounded the bench, holding off the ignorant fans.

I think it's one of those "once in a lifetime" moments that shouldn't be restricted.

hurleyfor3
12-03-2009, 12:50 PM
I have no problem with college kids being college kids, but do understand the need for players and game staff to exit safely. Also, make sure the game ends first! Florida State rushed the court too early against us a few years back. Illinois kids rushed the court once in a game that turned out to be a loss.

I don't think monetary penalites resonate with college kids who don't have to pay them. My idea is if you rush the court too early you can't count the win in the conference standings. (This could apply even with nonconference games, as with Bucky last night.) The win still counts in the overall record and for the purposes of making the NCAA Tournament (it's not a forfeit). But it very well could result in drawing a tougher opponent or playing a extra day in the conference tournament.

Johnboy
12-03-2009, 01:32 PM
Dangerous. Even (especially?) for the home team (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=2794108).

CameronBornAndBred
12-03-2009, 01:39 PM
My last comments in our chat last night were that the court rushing would be the #2 story after loss itself. As long as nobody is hurt, I'm ok with it, you could tell that place was pretty electric all game. It was scary to see how fast they came on though, barely time for our guys to get out of the way.

allenmurray
12-03-2009, 02:03 PM
My last comments in our chat last night were that the court rushing would be the #2 story after loss itself. As long as nobody is hurt, I'm ok with it, you could tell that place was pretty electric all game. It was scary to see how fast they came on though, barely time for our guys to get out of the way.

The problem is that it requires us to be able to see into the future. We don't know which time will be the one when someone gets hurt. Hundreds of people running around aimlessly in a space from which folks can't easily escape is a recipe for disaster.

I had forgotten about the link johnboy provided ( http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=2794108 ). One star athlete - brilliant scholar - gifted musician, now paralyzed, should be enough. It simply is not worth the risk.

Channing
01-10-2010, 06:49 PM
just pointing out that the SEC's rules work. There are fines imposed on schools for rushing the court. When UT beat number 1 KU today, the fans didnt rush the court, and they ended up acting like they had been there before...

On the other hand, GT, who was ranked similarly to UT, rushed the court when they beat Duke.

Again, I contend, the ACC should take a page out of the SEC playbook.

godukerocks
01-10-2010, 09:44 PM
Often I'll watch games from decades ago and notice that fans stormed the court in the pros, in the NBA and also Major League Baseball on occasion. The thought of fans rushing the court or field today is laughable.

To me, the rushing of a court is the culmination of a series of factors, a series that does not often present itself. With the combination of a rival or highly ranked school, intense physical play, storylines developed throughout the game, and back and forth emotions of a high-stakes event, the atmosphere at an arena and the energy of students is something waiting to explode. Rushing to midcourt, praising your athletes, and simply 'going crazy' is the preferred method of celebration.

Usually, both teams will know it's coming. If a member of the visiting team wants to stand in the middle of the court for the moments after the game, he needs to realize that he will now be subject to a little bit of danger, or a lot of sophomoric harassment. As long as means are consistently put in place to protect the players, I don't want court rushing to be taken away.

I can certainly understand the angle coming from those who point out the very unfortunate, and tragic, Joe Kay incident. But as a previous poster pointed out, most often these occurrences are rare. It is a part of the experience, and as long as the means are put in place to ensure safety and fans do not cross the line, it should be allowed.

Dukeface88
01-10-2010, 10:23 PM
Before one of the UNC games (I believe last year, but it may have been the year before), Coach K specifically told the Crazies that they should not rush the court. I vaguely remember something about only doing so for championships, although I might not be remembering that part correctly. I think that's a reasonable policy.

While Joe Kay's story was tragic, I don't think it should banning the practice any more than diving, horse riding or football should banned due to the possibility of paralysis. That said, imposing a fine for court-storming isn't a bad idea; it would at least prevent cases where there isn't a good reason.

dukemsu
01-10-2010, 10:57 PM
I have always applauded Duke fans for not doing this. I participated in one such storming at Breslin in 95, when MSU finally beat Michigan after years of futility and the Fabbers doing various obscene things to the S at midcourt. Once I got to the floor, I realized I shouldn't have been there. Chaos. This was confirmed about thirty seconds later when a UM fan in a Webber jersey was laid out flat by a State fan that wasn't interested in listening to anything the UM guy had to say.

Looking back, it was fun for about five seconds, and then got pretty frightening. And it doesn't say much for your self esteem as a program, as has been discussed on this board for years. I've often marveled at the fact despite the various stormings Duke has endured in recent years that no one's been hurt. A lot of those fans really hate Duke, and I always worry that some idiot will take a swing at Blue Devil and connect.

dukemsu

DukeSean
01-11-2010, 02:00 PM
And maybe ESPN should stop plastering images of rushing the court in every Sportscenter.

left_hook_lacey
01-11-2010, 02:39 PM
I have always applauded Duke fans for not doing this. I participated in one such storming at Breslin in 95, when MSU finally beat Michigan after years of futility and the Fabbers doing various obscene things to the S at midcourt. Once I got to the floor, I realized I shouldn't have been there. Chaos. This was confirmed about thirty seconds later when a UM fan in a Webber jersey was laid out flat by a State fan that wasn't interested in listening to anything the UM guy had to say.

Looking back, it was fun for about five seconds, and then got pretty frightening. And it doesn't say much for your self esteem as a program, as has been discussed on this board for years. I've often marveled at the fact despite the various stormings Duke has endured in recent years that no one's been hurt. A lot of those fans really hate Duke, and I always worry that some idiot will take a swing at Blue Devil and connect.

dukemsu

Actually, Even Duke is not immune to this. I recall after a game in 2005(I think) when unranked VT had us on the ropes at home with less than 2 seconds left. Long inbounds to Dockery, half-court prayer was answered, Duke wins by 2, and fans stormed the court. Duke fans, stormed the court after beating unranked VT at Cameron, I cringed as I watched because it made me think that our program had real self-esteem issues if we're charging the court after that win.

But that being said, I'm ok with charging the court under the following circumstances....

1.) You just beat your arch rival (you can only have one arch rival) in a close game. But only if a.) it was a buzzer beater b.) your arch rival was ranked extremely higher than your team c.) you haven't beaten your arch rival in a really long time.(I'm talking years) d.) it was an exteremly huge come from behind win

2.) You just beat a team that is top 10 or better, and you're not ranked.

3.) You just won a game that ensures...a.) league championship b.) trip to big dance. (for those schools that don't regularly make it.)

Most every other circumstance I can think of falls under the "act like you've been there before" category. I can barely stand to watch Team A ranked 15th playing Team B ranked 12th, and Team A wins by 10 and fans storm the court. I just don't get it.

shoutingncu
01-11-2010, 02:46 PM
I'd like to see the Cameron Crazies, in a calm, organized and highly orchestrated fashion... walk single file from each corner onto the court after a big win.

allenmurray
01-11-2010, 03:08 PM
Actually, Even Duke is not immune to this. I recall after a game in 2005(I think) when unranked VT had us on the ropes at home with less than 2 seconds left. Long inbounds to Dockery, half-court prayer was answered, Duke wins by 2, and fans stormed the court. Duke fans, stormed the court after beating unranked VT at Cameron, I cringed as I watched because it made me think that our program had real self-esteem issues if we're charging the court after that win.

But that being said, I'm ok with charging the court under the following circumstances....

1.) You just beat your arch rival (you can only have one arch rival) in a close game. But only if a.) it was a buzzer beater b.) your arch rival was ranked extremely higher than your team c.) you haven't beaten your arch rival in a really long time.(I'm talking years) d.) it was an exteremly huge come from behind win

2.) You just beat a team that is top 10 or better, and you're not ranked.

3.) You just won a game that ensures...a.) league championship b.) trip to big dance. (for those schools that don't regularly make it.)

Most every other circumstance I can think of falls under the "act like you've been there before" category. I can barely stand to watch Team A ranked 15th playing Team B ranked 12th, and Team A wins by 10 and fans storm the court. I just don't get it.

I was there. I remember some students going on to the court, but I hardly recall it as "storming" the court. Maybe 100 or so students "milling around on the court", waiting for Dockery to come out from the locker room. If it was "storming the court" it was a weak version thereof.

allenmurray
01-11-2010, 03:14 PM
While Joe Kay's story was tragic, I don't think it should banning the practice any more than diving, horse riding or football should banned due to the possibility of paralysis. That said, imposing a fine for court-storming isn't a bad idea; it would at least prevent cases where there isn't a good reason.

If I go diving, horseback riding, or play football I know there are a certain risks involved and I assume those risks. That stupid fans will storm the court and paralyze you for life is not usually an assumed risk involved in playing basketball. Joe Kay did not go into that game thinking, "well I may be paralyzed for life because of some idiot fans, but I'm willing to take that risk to participate in an activity I love". The Joe Kay situation and the examples you mention are not parallel. In your examples the participants knowingly take on the risk of a high-risk activity. Being paralyzed while being trampled by a mob is not a typical risk of playing basketball.

biscuit30
01-11-2010, 07:50 PM
I was at the game when Duke was playing at FSU back during the Jay Williams/Dunleavy era. I think it was 2002 and the Noles beat Duke, the crowd rushed the court. Some of the players, one of which was Mike Dunleavy had to jump over the courtside table. That would have sucked if he slipped while going over that table and smacking his head.

SCMatt33
01-11-2010, 08:53 PM
But that being said, I'm ok with charging the court under the following circumstances....

1.) You just beat your arch rival (you can only have one arch rival) in a close game. But only if a.) it was a buzzer beater b.) your arch rival was ranked extremely higher than your team c.) you haven't beaten your arch rival in a really long time.(I'm talking years) d.) it was an exteremly huge come from behind win

2.) You just beat a team that is top 10 or better, and you're not ranked.

3.) You just won a game that ensures...a.) league championship b.) trip to big dance. (for those schools that don't regularly make it.)

Most every other circumstance I can think of falls under the "act like you've been there before" category. I can barely stand to watch Team A ranked 15th playing Team B ranked 12th, and Team A wins by 10 and fans storm the court. I just don't get it.

I remembered this from years ago and just found the link. Pat Forde addressed this issue in one of his columns (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2306416) four years ago. I agree in principle with most of his premises here, but he fails to adequately address a teams current ranking or non-ranking. He mostly emphasizes a programs history and stature.

Channing
01-14-2010, 11:47 AM
this was brought up in the UNC-CU thread, and I wanted to get some other views.

If/when we beat UNC at Cameron later this year, are there folks who think we should storm the court? Aside from being blatantly against Coach Ks wishes, we will, likely, be ranked in the top 10, and UNC will be ranked at the bottom portion of the top 25, if at all. Personally, I would find that embarassing.

Other thoughts?

bigj4194
01-14-2010, 11:58 AM
so my friend told me a decent theory that I thought i would share. he said that it should be reasonably acceptable if your team at some point had less than 1% of a chance to win the game and you end up winning. at that point rushing the court should be acceptable.

now im not sure how i really feel about it but it sounds decent to me.

RoyalBlue08
01-14-2010, 12:07 PM
I would state this in perhaps a little different way. If you could convince me that the win would be the biggest win for the program in a 5 year span or so, that I can see rushing the court. Given that a regular season game at Cameron would never apply to this rule, we should NEVER be rushing the court after a win!

CrazieDUMB
01-14-2010, 12:11 PM
I remember when I was a freshman, coach K said that the only accomplishment deserving of a court storming is the winning of a national championship. It didn't dawn on me until later that a home team has never won a national championship.

elvis14
01-14-2010, 12:44 PM
IMHO it's a bit smug to say "we should never rush the court for a home game" or simply act like nothing is a big deal. UNC, our hated arch rival, has beaten us for years at home. When we beat UNC CH this year, if you feel it, have at it! If you don't feel it, don't go.

The Trevor Booker interview on the court last night where he answered a question with "I can't hear you" was awesome!

Channing
01-14-2010, 12:49 PM
I prefer to ascribe to the philosophy of "act like you have been there before." Do they still have bonfires set up if we beat uncch? That is the time to party.

Further, if Coach K specifically asked people not to rush the court, what justification is there for doing it anyway? Especially if it doesnt come from some unexpected emotional burst.

RoyalBlue08
01-16-2010, 01:18 PM
After GT's predictable loss following the Duke game and Clemson's poor performance on the road in Raleigh today, I wish there could be a way to track winning percentage in games immediately following the one in which your student section stormed your court. I bet it is shockingly low. Just another reason not to storm the court. No sense in creating a celebration right in the middle of a long regular season. I would think it has to make it harder to move on to the next game.

Channing
02-24-2015, 07:28 AM
court storming got a little out of hand in Manhattan last night. A Kansas assistant put a KS student in a headlock to get him away from one of the KU players, and other fans were intentionally running into KU players. One of these days something like this is going to escalate into something very bad.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12373038/chaotic-court-storming-mars-kansas-state-wildcats-win-kansas-jayhawks

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-24-2015, 07:35 AM
I was going to open a thread about this, but you wisely went and brought this one back to life. I was going to use the angle of Bill Self crying about court storming. Although I guess it did get out of hand. But, you know what every time we lose we get court stormed, except for those ND kids but that was more of a gimmick than anything. I do not feel sorry for anyone that gets court stormed on. Feel our pain.

Dukehky
02-24-2015, 07:39 AM
court storming got a little out of hand in Manhattan last night. A Kansas assistant put a KS student in a headlock to get him away from one of the KU players, and other fans were intentionally running into KU players. One of these days something like this is going to escalate into something very bad.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12373038/chaotic-court-storming-mars-kansas-state-wildcats-win-kansas-jayhawks

K said this 2 years ago, let the other team get off the court. He was mocked by the national media. "Let the kids have fun."

Who gives a flying **** if the students in attendance have fun. They are there to watch the game and be supportive. They are not a part of the game. They are a part of the atmosphere which can affect the game, but they are not a part of the game. It's dangerous for everyone involved, and half the time it's an unwarranted court storm.

Oh my god I hate it so much. Basketball courts are not big places. There are places for people to get out the way on football fields, so I am a little more lenient with that, plus at least the teams have helmets and pads, so if some knuckle head smacks a player on the way out it's going to hurt his hand.

I hope that the next time this happens, that some drunk kid really pisses Cliff Alexander off and he rocks them right in the face. That will end court storming forever. Come on Cliff, take one for the team (that is a scary dude). Actually you know who I want in charge of being the face hitter? Rico Gathers from Baylor. He is the scariest man in college athletics.

Duvall
02-24-2015, 07:39 AM
Court storming should be banned immediately. But ESPN loves it, so of course the cowards who run the ACC and other leagues can't be bothered.

Seattle Hoo
02-24-2015, 08:01 AM
Tilt at windmills. Pee in the rain. Court storming is fun and is a great celebration, and as much as players like to think they are the game, in spectator sports, it really is the fans who are the game. Players come and go, often to the highest bidder. Coaches come and go, often to the highest bidder. ADs and GMs come and go. Heck, in pro sports, even owners come and go (except the Maras), but the fans are always there. When UVA won the ACC Tournament last year, who do you think it meant the most to? Yes, the players did it, but many of the fans have been waiting for that to happen for longer than any of those players has been alive. Guess who paid the money to build that floor they play on? In most cases, the fans. In many cases, the fans had a big role in the outcome of the game at the end of which they are storming the court.

Schools should just do what UVA does and create an usher barrier that gets the players and coaches off the court. A lot of the UVA players stayed out there and joined the crowd. It was fun for both. Meanwhile, the hapless losers filed off to their locker room to have their team cry. If fans were able to run into players and get headlocked, the crowd control was insufficient.

Something like 90% of the people on the court are going to be students.

As for that Cameron thing of reaching for the inbounder, it is completely and totally frigging obnoxious, and I always want to see the inbounder reach around and grab somebody's fingers and break them. If some little aholes were doing that to me, invading my personal space like that, I would break fingers. It's offensive and I applaud the control of the players who are subjected to it.

dudog84
02-24-2015, 08:11 AM
Tilt at windmills. Pee in the rain. Court storming is fun and is a great celebration, and as much as players like to think they are the game, in spectator sports, it really is the fans who are the game. Players come and go, often to the highest bidder. Coaches come and go, often to the highest bidder. ADs and GMs come and go. Heck, in pro sports, even owners come and go (except the Maras), but the fans are always there. When UVA won the ACC Tournament last year, who do you think it meant the most to? Yes, the players did it, but many of the fans have been waiting for that to happen for longer than any of those players has been alive. Guess who paid the money to build that floor they play on? In most cases, the fans. In many cases, the fans had a big role in the outcome of the game at the end of which they are storming the court.

Schools should just do what UVA does and create an usher barrier that gets the players and coaches off the court. A lot of the UVA players stayed out there and joined the crowd. It was fun for both. Meanwhile, the hapless losers filed off to their locker room to have their team cry. If fans were able to run into players and get headlocked, the crowd control was insufficient.

Something like 90% of the people on the court are going to be students.

As for that Cameron thing of reaching for the inbounder, it is completely and totally frigging obnoxious, and I always want to see the inbounder reach around and grab somebody's fingers and break them. If some little aholes were doing that to me, invading my personal space like that, I would break fingers. It's offensive and I applaud the control of the players who are subjected to it.

Wow. Internet tough guy.

I think that if any opposing player were touched by a Crazie on an inbounds play it would immediately be stopped by the referee and probably result in a technical. And I'm sure Coach K would end the practice immediately. Not next game, right there.

I thought UVa grads were smarter than this. Learn something new every day.

jv001
02-24-2015, 08:17 AM
Tilt at windmills. Pee in the rain. Court storming is fun and is a great celebration, and as much as players like to think they are the game, in spectator sports, it really is the fans who are the game. Players come and go, often to the highest bidder. Coaches come and go, often to the highest bidder. ADs and GMs come and go. Heck, in pro sports, even owners come and go (except the Maras), but the fans are always there. When UVA won the ACC Tournament last year, who do you think it meant the most to? Yes, the players did it, but many of the fans have been waiting for that to happen for longer than any of those players has been alive. Guess who paid the money to build that floor they play on? In most cases, the fans. In many cases, the fans had a big role in the outcome of the game at the end of which they are storming the court.

Schools should just do what UVA does and create an usher barrier that gets the players and coaches off the court. A lot of the UVA players stayed out there and joined the crowd. It was fun for both. Meanwhile, the hapless losers filed off to their locker room to have their team cry. If fans were able to run into players and get headlocked, the crowd control was insufficient.

Something like 90% of the people on the court are going to be students.

As for that Cameron thing of reaching for the inbounder, it is completely and totally frigging obnoxious, and I always want to see the inbounder reach around and grab somebody's fingers and break them. If some little aholes were doing that to me, invading my personal space like that, I would break fingers. It's offensive and I applaud the control of the players who are subjected to it.

Wow, got out of the bed with a gloomy day ahead? As for court storming, I guess you guys have a history of rushing the court on your many upsets. Well, Duke is on the other end of rushing the court. We're the ones that have to fight our way off the court. Maybe after these two very good seasons the Cavs are having, you might get to be on the other end of the stampede. GoDuke!

FerryFor50
02-24-2015, 08:19 AM
Tilt at windmills. Pee in the rain. Court storming is fun and is a great celebration, and as much as players like to think they are the game, in spectator sports, it really is the fans who are the game. Players come and go, often to the highest bidder. Coaches come and go, often to the highest bidder. ADs and GMs come and go. Heck, in pro sports, even owners come and go (except the Maras), but the fans are always there. When UVA won the ACC Tournament last year, who do you think it meant the most to? Yes, the players did it, but many of the fans have been waiting for that to happen for longer than any of those players has been alive. Guess who paid the money to build that floor they play on? In most cases, the fans. In many cases, the fans had a big role in the outcome of the game at the end of which they are storming the court.

Schools should just do what UVA does and create an usher barrier that gets the players and coaches off the court. A lot of the UVA players stayed out there and joined the crowd. It was fun for both. Meanwhile, the hapless losers filed off to their locker room to have their team cry. If fans were able to run into players and get headlocked, the crowd control was insufficient.

Something like 90% of the people on the court are going to be students.

As for that Cameron thing of reaching for the inbounder, it is completely and totally frigging obnoxious, and I always want to see the inbounder reach around and grab somebody's fingers and break them. If some little aholes were doing that to me, invading my personal space like that, I would break fingers. It's offensive and I applaud the control of the players who are subjected to it.

This post makes no sense and is contradictory.

First, you say that fans should be able to rush the court because "they paid for it." Forget that fans have been known to purposely push/punch/run into opposing players and coaches and that the players/coaches have zero leeway to do anything in retaliation.

Then you say that fans (who paid for the court, mind you) should be banned from pretending to touch players during the game? Somehow, NOT touching players is worse than touching them. Got it.

I can understand the rationale of arguing to allow court storming, even though I disagree with it. But it sounds like you just want to have your cake and eat it, too.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-24-2015, 08:20 AM
Tilt at windmills. Pee in the rain. Court storming is fun and is a great celebration, and as much as players like to think they are the game, in spectator sports, it really is the fans who are the game. Players come and go, often to the highest bidder. Coaches come and go, often to the highest bidder. ADs and GMs come and go. Heck, in pro sports, even owners come and go (except the Maras), but the fans are always there. When UVA won the ACC Tournament last year, who do you think it meant the most to? Yes, the players did it, but many of the fans have been waiting for that to happen for longer than any of those players has been alive. Guess who paid the money to build that floor they play on? In most cases, the fans. In many cases, the fans had a big role in the outcome of the game at the end of which they are storming the court.

Schools should just do what UVA does and create an usher barrier that gets the players and coaches off the court. A lot of the UVA players stayed out there and joined the crowd. It was fun for both. Meanwhile, the hapless losers filed off to their locker room to have their team cry. If fans were able to run into players and get headlocked, the crowd control was insufficient.

Something like 90% of the people on the court are going to be students.

As for that Cameron thing of reaching for the inbounder, it is completely and totally frigging obnoxious, and I always want to see the inbounder reach around and grab somebody's fingers and break them. If some little aholes were doing that to me, invading my personal space like that, I would break fingers. It's offensive and I applaud the control of the players who are subjected to it.

Yea they aren't really reaching and they arent really that close to the player. Of course the player knows that its happening but I would think it was kinda fun. I would have loved to play in Cameron as an opposing player at some point. But I tend to take things a lot less seriously than most on the court.

rifraf
02-24-2015, 08:27 AM
The most disappointing thing about the KSU court storm last night was how fans immediately went for players and Self. There are some crazy pictures floating around where Bill Self is pushed against the scorers table, Bruce Weber doing his best to keep a ridiculous crush of KSU fans from getting physical with Self. That's pretty poor sportsmanship to me.

Rushing the court should be taken as an opportunity to celebrate your team, and not get aggressive with the opposing team. My first Duke game was the VA Tech game Dockery Shot. Immediately before The Shot, Dowdell was having some fun mocking the crazies. We were all yelling at him before the shot, but once it went in and we stormed the court he was the furthest thing from my mind as I wanted to celebrate with Duke players and Duke fans.

sagegrouse
02-24-2015, 08:44 AM
Tilt at windmills. Pee in the rain. Court storming is fun and is a great celebration, and as much as players like to think they are the game, in spectator sports, it really is the fans who are the game. Players come and go, often to the highest bidder. Coaches come and go, often to the highest bidder. ADs and GMs come and go. Heck, in pro sports, even owners come and go (except the Maras), but the fans are always there. When UVA won the ACC Tournament last year, who do you think it meant the most to? Yes, the players did it, but many of the fans have been waiting for that to happen for longer than any of those players has been alive. Guess who paid the money to build that floor they play on? In most cases, the fans. In many cases, the fans had a big role in the outcome of the game at the end of which they are storming the court.

Schools should just do what UVA does and create an usher barrier that gets the players and coaches off the court. A lot of the UVA players stayed out there and joined the crowd. It was fun for both. Meanwhile, the hapless losers filed off to their locker room to have their team cry. If fans were able to run into players and get headlocked, the crowd control was insufficient.

Something like 90% of the people on the court are going to be students.

As for that Cameron thing of reaching for the inbounder, it is completely and totally frigging obnoxious, and I always want to see the inbounder reach around and grab somebody's fingers and break them. If some little aholes were doing that to me, invading my personal space like that, I would break fingers. It's offensive and I applaud the control of the players who are subjected to it.

Para. #1: Gee, MLB does everything to keep the fans off the field. Someone's gonna get hurt on a college basketball court -- most likely a fan. As to saying it's about the fans in attendance, who should be able to do whatever they want. Your problem is that the teams and the leagues don't agree with you.

Para. #2: "Meanwhile, the hapless losers filed off to their locker room to have their cry." Really?? It seems like every game has a loser' and I am not aware of much crying in the visitors locker rooms anywhere.

Para. #3: The apparent reaching for the inbounder is a product of foreshortening by the lenses on the TV cameras, don't you think? The refs and Duke coaches would intercede otherwise. As to your suggestion of violence, perhaps you should rethink your approach to DBR.

BrazyATX
02-24-2015, 08:54 AM
A decent collection of gifs here: http://www.sbnation.com/2015/2/23/8097789/kansas-state-court-storm-bill-self

duketaylor
02-24-2015, 08:56 AM
"Guess who paid the money to build that floor they play on?" I imagine T Markel probably contributed in a significant way.

I was also watching last night and was in fear for the safety of the KU players and staff. Pretty scary!!

Channing
02-24-2015, 08:59 AM
Tilt at windmills. Pee in the rain. Court storming is fun and is a great celebration, and as much as players like to think they are the game, in spectator sports, it really is the fans who are the game. Players come and go, often to the highest bidder. Coaches come and go, often to the highest bidder. ADs and GMs come and go. Heck, in pro sports, even owners come and go (except the Maras), but the fans are always there. When UVA won the ACC Tournament last year, who do you think it meant the most to? Yes, the players did it, but many of the fans have been waiting for that to happen for longer than any of those players has been alive. Guess who paid the money to build that floor they play on? In most cases, the fans. In many cases, the fans had a big role in the outcome of the game at the end of which they are storming the court.

Schools should just do what UVA does and create an usher barrier that gets the players and coaches off the court. A lot of the UVA players stayed out there and joined the crowd. It was fun for both. Meanwhile, the hapless losers filed off to their locker room to have their team cry. If fans were able to run into players and get headlocked, the crowd control was insufficient.

Something like 90% of the people on the court are going to be students.

As for that Cameron thing of reaching for the inbounder, it is completely and totally frigging obnoxious, and I always want to see the inbounder reach around and grab somebody's fingers and break them. If some little aholes were doing that to me, invading my personal space like that, I would break fingers. It's offensive and I applaud the control of the players who are subjected to it.

As others mentioned, you completely contradict yourself ... players should have their personal space but its ok for fans to rush and invade their personal space. Also, when you have a couple thousand students rushing the court, 50-75 ushers are not going to stop them. There was almost disaster a year or two ago in Raleigh when a student in a wheel chair rushed the court and got knocked over (I think CJ Leslie ended up picking him up). There are a lot of things that would be "fun" and the result of "kids being kids", but that doesn't mean they should be allowed, largely because kids sometimes make dumb decisions. Once a situation escalates and someone gets seriously hurt, it is too late.

Ichabod Drain
02-24-2015, 09:14 AM
As for that Cameron thing of reaching for the inbounder, it is completely and totally frigging obnoxious, and I always want to see the inbounder reach around and grab somebody's fingers and break them. If some little aholes were doing that to me, invading my personal space like that, I would break fingers. It's offensive and I applaud the control of the players who are subjected to it.

I've never met you before but I can guarantee 100% that if you were in that situation you would not turn around and break someones finger, and it wouldn't be because of any self control you possess.

diablesseblu
02-24-2015, 09:14 AM
After the incident detailed in this ESPN piece, I've been adamantly opposed to court storming -- no matter the situation. Having fans celebrate in this manner is just not worth the risk.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9019013/joe-kay-sobering-rushing-court-story

Dukehky
02-24-2015, 09:40 AM
Tilt at windmills. Pee in the rain. Court storming is fun and is a great celebration, and as much as players like to think they are the game, in spectator sports, it really is the fans who are the game. Players come and go, often to the highest bidder. Coaches come and go, often to the highest bidder. ADs and GMs come and go. Heck, in pro sports, even owners come and go (except the Maras), but the fans are always there. When UVA won the ACC Tournament last year, who do you think it meant the most to? Yes, the players did it, but many of the fans have been waiting for that to happen for longer than any of those players has been alive. Guess who paid the money to build that floor they play on? In most cases, the fans. In many cases, the fans had a big role in the outcome of the game at the end of which they are storming the court.

Schools should just do what UVA does and create an usher barrier that gets the players and coaches off the court. A lot of the UVA players stayed out there and joined the crowd. It was fun for both. Meanwhile, the hapless losers filed off to their locker room to have their team cry. If fans were able to run into players and get headlocked, the crowd control was insufficient.

Something like 90% of the people on the court are going to be students.

As for that Cameron thing of reaching for the inbounder, it is completely and totally frigging obnoxious, and I always want to see the inbounder reach around and grab somebody's fingers and break them. If some little aholes were doing that to me, invading my personal space like that, I would break fingers. It's offensive and I applaud the control of the players who are subjected to it.

In the words of Chubbs Peterson, oh spoken like a true a-hole!!!

I can 1000% guarantee you that the championships UVA has won mean a hell of a lot more to the players and coaches than it did to the fans. Fans dedicate thought to the games, and emotion during the games themselves, those guys work their butts off year round to get to that level. This is the problem. Fans are so entitled. Fan is short for fanatic, I want no part of someone who is a fanatic coming directly at me in a space that is my sanctuary. Fans pay for the seats, which they get to sit in or stand in front of for games. The fact that they paid for the seat does not entitle them to run onto the court, EVER. It's a desperate attempt for a bunch of jack n apes to make other people's achievements their own, or just to get on TV. I have never thought that, even when Duke won the championship while I was in school, that it was my accomplishment, even when Coach K told the student body, this is our title. It's not ours, it was theirs. I celebrated their accomplishment, never did I confuse it with my own accomplishment. Fans paying money doesn't give them the right to run on the floor. Yet another example of how college athletes have nothing of their own. Even their own personal space is sacrificed to the almighty dollar in your view because the fans paid to go sit in an arena.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-24-2015, 09:46 AM
After the incident detailed in this ESPN piece, I've been adamantly opposed to court storming -- no matter the situation. Having fans celebrate in this manner is just not worth the risk.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9019013/joe-kay-sobering-rushing-court-story

Well....

That's pretty horrible. Jeez.

CameronBornAndBred
02-24-2015, 10:05 AM
If some little aholes were doing that to me, invading my personal space like that, I would break fingers.
And that is why avoiding court rushing is a necessity, to keep players and coaches away from people like you and your violent tendencies.
Wow.

JasonEvans
02-24-2015, 10:16 AM
As has been noted in the past, the SEC fines teams for court storming -- $5000 for the first offense and $25k for repeat offenders. I'm not sure those fines make a hill of beans of difference to fans (the athletic department pays the fine anyway), but I would imagine the Big 12 will look at something similar after last night's incident at KSt.

Fans need to be allowed to celebrate, but safety needs to be concern #1. The fact that Kansas coaches and players were caught in the scrum is a very serious issue.

-Jason "Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, Arizona, and a few other schools are the most concerned about this... the only time anyone storms the court for a UVA win is maybe at Va Tech... maybe" Evans

Seattle Hoo
02-24-2015, 10:16 AM
I've been on the floor a couple of times, and I cannot speak for other places, but when we went onto the floor at UVA, we didn't go after the opposing team, we didn't even really go out there to mob our players. It was just cool to be on the floor. So, there is a difference between going out onto the floor, and assaulting the opposing team. It's up to the fans to conduct themselves in non-assaultive ways respectful of the other people, and up to the institution to use proper crowd control. When I watched the UVA students go onto the floor upon winning the regular season last year, nobody even tried to mess with the usher line. I am never in favor of outright banning things that most people enjoy responsibly to prevent a few people from abusing. I'd rather find a way to prevent the abuse.

Re: the fingers thing, I used a bit of hyperbole. From closeups I've seen, it sure looks like some of the fingers are almost touching the player. I always wonder why it's allowed, why the fans are allowed to get that close to a player during a game. With my personal space issues (and in my 48 years I've been assaulted but never laid a finger on anyone else), I would have a very difficult time tolerating that. It doesn't mean I really want to see someone get hurt. I apologize for using opaque hyperbole. If it really is a TV perspective distortion and nobody is getting within a couple feet of the player, that's different, but from the way it looks, it sure seems like ritualized mass invasion of one person's personal space.

Dev11
02-24-2015, 10:26 AM
Having stood in the front row of Section 17 a few times, I can tell you it's pretty hard to touch an opposing player with the media seats between the fans and the court. The camera perspective often removes that distance, so the whole thing is really for show.

Duke has been good enough for a long time that we get stormed against pretty regularly, so Coach K has gotten quite good at managing it. I wouldn't be surprised if the staff has a plan in place before every road game. I'm surprised that Kansas and Kansas State didn't have a better plan, given that they are rivals and play each other every season. The players and coaches shouldn't be accessible to the rushing students.

TexHawk
02-24-2015, 10:31 AM
I was going to open a thread about this, but you wisely went and brought this one back to life. I was going to use the angle of Bill Self crying about court storming. Although I guess it did get out of hand. But, you know what every time we lose we get court stormed, except for those ND kids but that was more of a gimmick than anything. I do not feel sorry for anyone that gets court stormed on. Feel our pain.

Feel your pain? I am sorry, I don't live in ACC country or watch as many of your games as I would like, but Duke hasn't patented the "court being stormed on their loss" thing. KU games are the Super Bowl for pretty much every other school in the Big12. Every team gets up for KU, just like every other ACC school gets up for Duke. And it's been going on for at least 30 years too.

Up until the last couple of years, I could count the number of non-court storming KU conference losses on one hand. (The court has been stormed three times in the last 3 weeks, btw.) When it doesn't happen, it's usually fans of a school like OU/UT that don't really care about hoops.


I would caution to make too big of a deal about last night's ruckus. As I said above, I have seen plenty of court-stormings in my time, and most schools handle it pretty well. Last night was just an example of a fanbase with an enormous inferiority complex. Similar to what I hear about NC State for you all. KU has won 28 of the last 32 games in Manhattan (including a 24 game winning streak that ended in 2008). I would be overly excited with a win if I were them too.

duketaylor
02-24-2015, 10:35 AM
For the Crazies it's also a little different in that when entering the building they are actually on the floor to access their seats, same as departing, so it's no "big thing" to be on the floor. At many/most schools I doubt the students have the same situation.

Dev11
02-24-2015, 10:55 AM
For the Crazies it's also a little different in that when entering the building they are actually on the floor to access their seats, same as departing, so it's no "big thing" to be on the floor. At many/most schools I doubt the students have the same situation.

That's a bit disingenuous. It's not like the Crazies are actually on the court. Duke fans don't storm the court that often because there has been a lot of success, not because the fans are a bit closer to the action than at most arenas. If Duke goes through a prolonged slump (something like 8-10 years) without any titles or high rankings, court storming in Cameron would come back into vogue.

alteran
02-24-2015, 11:06 AM
That's a bit disingenuous. It's not like the Crazies are actually on the court. Duke fans don't storm the court that often because there has been a lot of success, not because the fans are a bit closer to the action than at most arenas. If Duke goes through a prolonged slump (something like 8-10 years) without any titles or high rankings, court storming in Cameron would come back into vogue.

Possibly true.

But whether Duke would be as bad as everyone else were the circumstances different does not really speak to the fact that court storming is kind of dangerous. If we're going to allow it (and it looks like we are) I'd at least like to see a rule allowing the opposition to get off the court or face significant fines.

Dev11
02-24-2015, 11:10 AM
Possibly true.

But whether Duke would be as bad as everyone else were the circumstances different does not really speak to the fact that court storming is kind of dangerous. If we're going to allow it (and it looks like we are) I'd at least like to see a rule allowing the opposition to get off the court or face significant fines.

In Cameron it probably wouldn't be a huge issue, since the visitors don't have to walk around the student section to get to their exit. They could easily rope off the lane to the visitor's locker room in much the same way they normally rope off the whole floor now. The Duke players and coaches would have to wait out the madness a bit before going back to the locker room, since their path would get blocked.

uh_no
02-24-2015, 11:12 AM
That's a bit disingenuous. It's not like the Crazies are actually on the court. Duke fans don't storm the court that often because there has been a lot of success, not because the fans are a bit closer to the action than at most arenas. If Duke goes through a prolonged slump (something like 8-10 years) without any titles or high rankings, court storming in Cameron would come back into vogue.

Many crazies walk in front of the tables after the game....on the court. They walk across the floor before and after the game (though not in bounds, as you point out). The first row folks are standing on the floor. There are gaps in the media table where students can walk out on the floor if they want. Many if not most students have been on the court at some point, and OP's argument is that this reduces the allure and mysticism of being out there, and to some degree, I agree with him.

I also agree with your point. We play and beat top teams all the time, both at home and on the road....and are almost always a top ranked team. Therefore we never have big upsets, and the only time you'll see a court storming is a spur of the moment dockery type situation where adrenaline kicks in and over the table you go.

Dukehky
02-24-2015, 11:34 AM
I've been on the floor a couple of times, and I cannot speak for other places, but when we went onto the floor at UVA, we didn't go after the opposing team, we didn't even really go out there to mob our players. It was just cool to be on the floor. So, there is a difference between going out onto the floor, and assaulting the opposing team. It's up to the fans to conduct themselves in non-assaultive ways respectful of the other people, and up to the institution to use proper crowd control. When I watched the UVA students go onto the floor upon winning the regular season last year, nobody even tried to mess with the usher line. I am never in favor of outright banning things that most people enjoy responsibly to prevent a few people from abusing. I'd rather find a way to prevent the abuse.

Re: the fingers thing, I used a bit of hyperbole. From closeups I've seen, it sure looks like some of the fingers are almost touching the player. I always wonder why it's allowed, why the fans are allowed to get that close to a player during a game. With my personal space issues (and in my 48 years I've been assaulted but never laid a finger on anyone else), I would have a very difficult time tolerating that. It doesn't mean I really want to see someone get hurt. I apologize for using opaque hyperbole. If it really is a TV perspective distortion and nobody is getting within a couple feet of the player, that's different, but from the way it looks, it sure seems like ritualized mass invasion of one person's personal space.

It'd be really cool to go into the Oval Office too, but just because you pay taxes doesn't mean you have a right to be there.

I think that most people feel like you do, that it would be cool to go onto the court. Most people don't want to mob players or get in the faces of the opposition. That doesn't make it okay. Fans have done nothing to earn their way onto the court. They have no business on the court. I know tons of people who have stormed a court/field in their day and who enjoy it and think it is a cool part of the game. I vehemently disagree and I don't think that taking away the prospect of storming the court would diminish the fan experience in any way. We'll never know until we try though.

arnie
02-24-2015, 11:54 AM
Tilt at windmills. Pee in the rain. Court storming is fun and is a great celebration, and as much as players like to think they are the game, in spectator sports, it really is the fans who are the game. Players come and go, often to the highest bidder. Coaches come and go, often to the highest bidder. ADs and GMs come and go. Heck, in pro sports, even owners come and go (except the Maras), but the fans are always there. When UVA won the ACC Tournament last year, who do you think it meant the most to? Yes, the players did it, but many of the fans have been waiting for that to happen for longer than any of those players has been alive. Guess who paid the money to build that floor they play on? In most cases, the fans. In many cases, the fans had a big role in the outcome of the game at the end of which they are storming the court.

Schools should just do what UVA does and create an usher barrier that gets the players and coaches off the court. A lot of the UVA players stayed out there and joined the crowd. It was fun for both. Meanwhile, the hapless losers filed off to their locker room to have their team cry. If fans were able to run into players and get headlocked, the crowd control was insufficient.

Something like 90% of the people on the court are going to be students.

As for that Cameron thing of reaching for the inbounder, it is completely and totally frigging obnoxious, and I always want to see the inbounder reach around and grab somebody's fingers and break them. If some little aholes were doing that to me, invading my personal space like that, I would break fingers. It's offensive and I applaud the control of the players who are subjected to it.

Sounds like thus poster must be part terp.

BluDvlsN1
02-24-2015, 12:15 PM
The only possible "reason"would be to excuse Ol Roy for walking out with a team and
coaches like at FSU, leaving 5 subs to fend/defend for themselves.
Just kidding on the square,I jest.
There is no excuse for anyone to be in jeopardy of physical harm, including the students themselves.

Last year at the Smith center, not only did they storm the court, it was a mob scene, and dangerous.
Side note: it continued onto Franklin street which was wall to wall bodies. Their Choice at that point.
My comment was "wonder where they're going to hang the banner?"

What I saw in Cameron against unc on Wednesday. It was epic from start to finish,
the crazies were in rare form, they were packed in so tight that they could barely
look straight at the court with shoulders square.
Ya gotta love the chant "Go to CLASS carolina go to CLASS"

The volume was such you could barely hear the person next to you, but unfortunately,
I could hear the uninformed boorish unc fan behind me all to well, primarily when we were on the front end
of a 2 shot foul and they were screaming for "rebound".
There were no less than 6 unc fans within 15 seats of us.
But I digress.
We walked out of CIS, no court storming, the students had a big raucous bonfire, but not of "Championship proportions"

How sweet would it be on March the 7th to have a large respectful,vocal Duke representation at at the
Smith Center making enough noise to have ole Roy go off again to the press lamenting the craziness ,
and have Franklin Street as quiet as a nursery.

Now thats something to shoot for.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-24-2015, 01:03 PM
Feel your pain? I am sorry, I don't live in ACC country or watch as many of your games as I would like, but Duke hasn't patented the "court being stormed on their loss" thing. KU games are the Super Bowl for pretty much every other school in the Big12. Every team gets up for KU, just like every other ACC school gets up for Duke. And it's been going on for at least 30 years too.

Up until the last couple of years, I could count the number of non-court storming KU conference losses on one hand. (The court has been stormed three times in the last 3 weeks, btw.) When it doesn't happen, it's usually fans of a school like OU/UT that don't really care about hoops.


I would caution to make too big of a deal about last night's ruckus. As I said above, I have seen plenty of court-stormings in my time, and most schools handle it pretty well. Last night was just an example of a fanbase with an enormous inferiority complex. Similar to what I hear about NC State for you all. KU has won 28 of the last 32 games in Manhattan (including a 24 game winning streak that ended in 2008). I would be overly excited with a win if I were them too.

Well considering this is a Duke site and I am posting on a Duke perspective yes, feel our pain. In my view Duke has patented "court being stormed on their loss" thing. The only loss I can remember where students didn't rush was at ND this season. But they were just being cute and probably planned it. The same might happen to Kansas every game, but I don't really care. There was an article up somewhere, that had the court rushing stats on it. I will try to find it but we were number one baby!! Not something to be proud of but just saying. I will try to dig up the article and post that joint.

Bostondevil
02-24-2015, 01:19 PM
Re: the fingers thing, I used a bit of hyperbole. From closeups I've seen, it sure looks like some of the fingers are almost touching the player. I always wonder why it's allowed, why the fans are allowed to get that close to a player during a game. With my personal space issues (and in my 48 years I've been assaulted but never laid a finger on anyone else), I would have a very difficult time tolerating that. It doesn't mean I really want to see someone get hurt. I apologize for using opaque hyperbole. If it really is a TV perspective distortion and nobody is getting within a couple feet of the player, that's different, but from the way it looks, it sure seems like ritualized mass invasion of one person's personal space.

For a player to get to those fingers, he'd have to jump over both a table they set up for the reporters on press row and the reporters themselves.

Apology accepted.

CDu
02-24-2015, 01:32 PM
For a player to get to those fingers, he'd have to jump over both a table they set up for the reporters on press row and the reporters themselves.

Apology accepted.

To be fair, I was at a game against Clemson several years back when Will Solomon was inbounding on the "TV side." One fan was up in his ear, so he took the ball from the ref, swung it back over his head like he was going to throw a two-hand overhead pass. The ball hit the fan in the head, and the ref stopped play and made the fan back off. There is a table and the press in between, but those fans can get VERY close.

Bostondevil
02-24-2015, 01:47 PM
Fair enough, CDu. It's been awhile (all right, a LOOOONNNNGGGG while) since I sat in the student section, perhaps there isn't as much space between press row and the bleachers as there used to be. Some fans do get very close - witness the high five between Winslow and the guy in the red shirt underneath the basket on Saturday - but the pointing stuff on inbounding plays? If that regularly happened with the players close enough to turn around and break fingers, I have to believe the officials would stop it. Quite frankly, I think Coach K would beat them to it.

flyingdutchdevil
02-24-2015, 02:08 PM
1) I absolutely love rushing the court. Never done it, but I've seen it done a lot against Duke. And while I am usually pissed off about the result (okay, always pissed off), it hurts a little less when the school who just beat Duke has its fans rush the court because I know that those fans/students are having a great time. So, I really hope rushing the court continues.

2) Safety is an issue, although a lot can be done to mitigate the risk. For instance, if the game is looking like an upset, have the ref call a time out to bring security, the coaches, and the admin together for 30 seconds. Tell them that students may rush the court so please be prepared. Also, increasing security on the floor helps, as would having a personal escort for each of the opposing players. IMO, the upside of rushing the court is significantly higher than the downside of an injury or media-worthy incident BARRING that the refs / admin did their due diligence.

Lar77
02-24-2015, 02:36 PM
1) I absolutely love rushing the court. Never done it, but I've seen it done a lot against Duke. And while I am usually pissed off about the result (okay, always pissed off), it hurts a little less when the school who just beat Duke has its fans rush the court because I know that those fans/students are having a great time. So, I really hope rushing the court continues.

2) Safety is an issue, although a lot can be done to mitigate the risk. For instance, if the game is looking like an upset, have the ref call a time out to bring security, the coaches, and the admin together for 30 seconds. Tell them that students may rush the court so please be prepared. Also, increasing security on the floor helps, as would having a personal escort for each of the opposing players. IMO, the upside of rushing the court is significantly higher than the downside of an injury or media-worthy incident BARRING that the refs / admin did their due diligence.

Agree with this. Many of the dangerous court rushes appear to have come in games where the outcome is pretty certain, and students are lining up in aisles and so forth (most arenas do not put substantial number of students near the court). Why can't the conferences direct officials to call an "official's time out" with the last real possession, confer with the coaches, and stadium officials, and either end the game with a visitors escort out or play it out. At least it's on the coach to decide what is safe for his team.

Acymetric
02-24-2015, 02:39 PM
After the incident detailed in this ESPN piece, I've been adamantly opposed to court storming -- no matter the situation. Having fans celebrate in this manner is just not worth the risk.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9019013/joe-kay-sobering-rushing-court-story


Well....

That's pretty horrible. Jeez.

This article is a must read, I remember seeing some kind of segment on SportsCenter or OTL or something covering this...rushing the court is a bad idea. Rushing the field in football isn't as much of a problem although there are still some security risks I suppose.

captmojo
02-24-2015, 02:52 PM
It's gotta stop.

Homeland Security demands it.

Homecourt teams should.

diablesseblu
02-24-2015, 02:57 PM
This article is a must read, I remember seeing some kind of segment on SportsCenter or OTL or something covering this...rushing the court is a bad idea. Rushing the field in football isn't as much of a problem although there are still some security risks I suppose.


Yes, there was a great piece on "OTL" about this young man's injury and its import for his life. That coverage is but another example of the dichotomy in ESPN's approach to this phenomenon. I guess airing court rushing makes "good" TV for them on Sportscenter.

Holly Rowe, last night's sideline reporter, was on Dan Patrick's show this AM. He was upset about what could have happened in Manhattan. However, Rowe was cheery about it although she's been in several "scrums" during her career. You could almost sense her concern that she not stray from their ratings driven approach. (I count "OTL" as an outlier of true journalism among the ESPN family of networks.)

captmojo
02-24-2015, 03:20 PM
I look at 'court rushing' much the same as a driver that spins out 'doughnuts' in a crowded parking lot. Stupid and completely careless and reckless, are descriptions that come to mind.

MChambers
02-25-2015, 04:30 PM
Nice piece by Tom Boswell, recommending forfeits for court rushing. Duke could have an undefeated season!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/time-to-put-the-calm-before-the-court-storming/2015/02/25/9284e264-bd17-11e4-bdfa-b8e8f594e6ee_story.html?hpid=z3

Channing
12-11-2015, 06:04 AM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14340483/newspaper-columnist-suffers-broken-leg-iowa-state-cyclones-fans-storm-court

Apparently a reporter's leg was broken during Iowa state's court storming. I know it was an emotional win but a little bizarre the 4th ranked team stormed after beating Unranked Iowa. In any event, I suggest all of the "let the kids have fun crowd" explain that to the poor reporter.

freshmanjs
12-11-2015, 06:48 AM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14340483/newspaper-columnist-suffers-broken-leg-iowa-state-cyclones-fans-storm-court

Apparently a reporter's leg was broken during Iowa state's court storming. I know it was an emotional win but a little bizarre the 4th ranked team stormed after beating Unranked Iowa. In any event, I suggest all of the "let the kids have fun crowd" explain that to the poor reporter.

take a look at the video. no students were anywhere near him when he was tripped. the reporting on this has been ridiculously misleading.

Ichabod Drain
12-11-2015, 07:21 AM
take a look at the video. no students were anywhere near him when he was tripped. the reporting on this has been ridiculously misleading.

To add to that from the writer himself.

"Just to be clear, I was not trampled by the crowd. I locked legs with someone,,,,, I think."

Henderson
12-11-2015, 08:07 AM
Nice piece by Tom Boswell, recommending forfeits for court rushing. Duke could have an undefeated season!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/time-to-put-the-calm-before-the-court-storming/2015/02/25/9284e264-bd17-11e4-bdfa-b8e8f594e6ee_story.html?hpid=z3

If enough opposing fans got enough people together at a venue, they could incite the crowd into following them onto the court and skew a result. People in a big crowd are sheep-like in their behavior sometimes.

Dukehky
12-11-2015, 08:42 AM
What is so fun about rushing the court? It's just kids who want to go on the court where they aren't normally allowed. Hurray, we're on the court jumping up and down. We aren't anywhere near the players because most of the time they just go to the line, sometimes they get up on the scorer's table, but no one can see them.

Fans need to stay in the stands, and if players want to go celebrate with the students, then go to the student's section. Basketball courts are too small to have thousands of people running onto them. Football fields are huge, football players also have protection. Helmets, pads, what have you. Basketball players are so vulnerable. Ban court storming. I've done it. You get out there and its exciting for like 2 seconds, then its like, okay, what the hell do we do now? Also, now people only want to take videos of it with their phone so they can show their friends "OMG look how crazy it got, look how WILD i am, I'm a crazy guy." God I absolutely loathe it.

luburch
12-11-2015, 08:54 AM
What is so fun about rushing the court? It's just kids who want to go on the court where they aren't normally allowed. Hurray, we're on the court jumping up and down. We aren't anywhere near the players because most of the time they just go to the line, sometimes they get up on the scorer's table, but no one can see them.

Fans need to stay in the stands, and if players want to go celebrate with the students, then go to the student's section. Basketball courts are too small to have thousands of people running onto them. Football fields are huge, football players also have protection. Helmets, pads, what have you. Basketball players are so vulnerable. Ban court storming. I've done it. You get out there and its exciting for like 2 seconds, then its like, okay, what the hell do we do now? Also, now people only want to take videos of it with their phone so they can show their friends "OMG look how crazy it got, look how WILD i am, I'm a crazy guy." God I absolutely loathe it.

I stand firmly with Mark Titus on this. Do it after every single win for all I care. You're only in college once and it's an amazing experience to have. Not sure what sort of experience you had, that it became boring after after two seconds, but I feel safe saying that's not normally the case.

Henderson
12-11-2015, 08:55 AM
What is so fun about rushing the court? It's just kids who want to go on the court where they aren't normally allowed. Hurray, we're on the court jumping up and down. We aren't anywhere near the players because most of the time they just go to the line, sometimes they get up on the scorer's table, but no one can see them.

Fans need to stay in the stands, and if players want to go celebrate with the students, then go to the student's section. Basketball courts are too small to have thousands of people running onto them. Football fields are huge, football players also have protection. Helmets, pads, what have you. Basketball players are so vulnerable. Ban court storming. I've done it. You get out there and its exciting for like 2 seconds, then its like, okay, what the hell do we do now? Also, now people only want to take videos of it with their phone so they can show their friends "OMG look how crazy it got, look how WILD i am, I'm a crazy guy." God I absolutely loathe it.

This.

Remember the phenomenon of the "food fight" in the late 70's? The people who engaged in it imposed consequences on those who had nothing to do with it. Just for fun. And the argument was, "Hey, we're just having fun; you only go to college once; I paid for that food."

Horrible idea of mass action that turned out to be just an ugly fad. I'm hoping for a similar arc for court-storming, and I think decent security would quickly make this sad practice an unfortunate memory.

Ichabod Drain
12-11-2015, 09:14 AM
What is so fun about rushing the court? It's just kids who want to go on the court where they aren't normally allowed. Hurray, we're on the court jumping up and down. We aren't anywhere near the players because most of the time they just go to the line, sometimes they get up on the scorer's table, but no one can see them.

Fans need to stay in the stands, and if players want to go celebrate with the students, then go to the student's section. Basketball courts are too small to have thousands of people running onto them. Football fields are huge, football players also have protection. Helmets, pads, what have you. Basketball players are so vulnerable. Ban court storming. I've done it. You get out there and its exciting for like 2 seconds, then its like, okay, what the hell do we do now? Also, now people only want to take videos of it with their phone so they can show their friends "OMG look how crazy it got, look how WILD i am, I'm a crazy guy." God I absolutely loathe it.

Just curious, if you loathe it why did you do it?

Pghdukie
12-11-2015, 09:27 AM
At least it's not the Cleveland Indians beer night. Students will overzealous, but my thoughts are to make sure the visiting team is safely in their locker room. Then do whatever you want

Ichabod Drain
12-11-2015, 09:42 AM
At least it's not the Cleveland Indians beer night. Students will overzealous, but my thoughts are to make sure the visiting team is safely in their locker room. Then do whatever you want

Roy Williams agrees with you if by visiting team you only mean scholarship players. Let the walk-ons be the fodder for the masses.

OldPhiKap
12-11-2015, 10:42 AM
This.

Remember the phenomenon of the "food fight" in the late 70's? The people who engaged in it imposed consequences on those who had nothing to do with it. Just for fun. And the argument was, "Hey, we're just having fun; you only go to college once; I paid for that food."

Horrible idea of mass action that turned out to be just an ugly fad. I'm hoping for a similar arc for court-storming, and I think decent security would quickly make this sad practice an unfortunate memory.

Quick aside, my freshman year the Chronicle writer for "Monday. Monday" suggested that folks gather for a food fight at the Cambridge Inn at like 5:00 that evening. And folks did. And Uncle Terry was none too happy.

I think that his last avuncular letter followed in the Chronicle the next day.

Henderson
12-11-2015, 10:51 AM
Quick aside, my freshman year the Chronicle writer for "Monday. Monday" suggested that folks gather for a food fight at the Cambridge Inn at like 5:00 that evening. And folks did. And Uncle Terry was none too happy.

I think that his last avuncular letter followed in the Chronicle the next day.

And you know who really suffered for that inanity? The food service workers who had to clean up the mess. You know what I heard at the time? "They'll get overtime; they should be thankful."

The food fight and court storming are both examples of bad adolescent behavior in which a mob insists on its right to party and imposes the externalities of its behavior on others.

With food-fighting, it's food service workers, janitors, and non-participants who pay for those externalities. In court storming, it's players, coaches, writers, and regular folks trying to make it up the stairs to the exits.

This is self-indulgent juvenile behavior.

A-Tex Devil
12-11-2015, 10:53 AM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14340483/newspaper-columnist-suffers-broken-leg-iowa-state-cyclones-fans-storm-court

Apparently a reporter's leg was broken during Iowa state's court storming. I know it was an emotional win but a little bizarre the 4th ranked team stormed after beating Unranked Iowa. In any event, I suggest all of the "let the kids have fun crowd" explain that to the poor reporter.

We were watching that game last night. Given that it was vs. Iowa (who while inferior in basketball is certainly the "big brother" in that rivalry), they were down 20 in the second half, they were down 8 with hardly any time left to play and scored the last 9 points, they are Iowa State, they are Iowa State and they are Iowa State, I can forgive the court rush.

fraggler
12-11-2015, 11:09 AM
I rushed a court only once in my basketball life and it wasn't 100% voluntary. It was my freshman year, so January in 1997 when we beat Carolina at Cameron. I was in the first couple of rows and basically had to move forward as the crowd did. Can't say I didn't enjoy it at the time, especially since some of our players were celebrating in the crowd for a little bit, but it was definitely intense and a little overwhelming. I can't imagine the chaos and danger potential in larger arenas where many more people can pour in from all sides. Now that I am older and maybe wiser, I think it is something that shouldn't happen anymore without more protection for the opposing players and coaches.

OldPhiKap
12-11-2015, 11:59 AM
And you know who really suffered for that inanity? The food service workers who had to clean up the mess. You know what I heard at the time? "They'll get overtime; they should be thankful."

The food fight and court storming are both examples of bad adolescent behavior in which a mob insists on its right to party and imposes the externalities of its behavior on others.

With food-fighting, it's food service workers, janitors, and non-participants who pay for those externalities. In court storming, it's players, coaches, writers, and regular folks trying to make it up the stairs to the exits.

This is self-indulgent juvenile behavior.

Agreed.

The only time I remember being on the court (not sure I'd call it a "rush") was when we beat UNC at home in 1986 to win the top conference spot for the regular season. Last home game for Dawkins, Alarie, Bilas, Williams, and Hendu -- also the infamous "inHale, exHale" game. A signature win for K at the time.

Olympic Fan
12-11-2015, 12:09 PM
I've been trying to keep count ... I think the last time Duke rushed the court was when Dockery's near-halfcourt heave beat Virginia Tech in December of 2005.

Last year Notre Dame did NOT rush the court after beating Duke in South Bend. Pretty sure that's the only time since I've been counting (since the early 2000s) that Duke lost a true road game and the opposing fans DIDN'T rush the court.

OldPhiKap
12-11-2015, 12:22 PM
I've been trying to keep count ... I think the last time Duke rushed the court was when Dockery's near-halfcourt heave beat Virginia Tech in December of 2005.

Last year Notre Dame did NOT rush the court after beating Duke in South Bend. Pretty sure that's the only time since I've been counting (since the early 2000s) that Duke lost a true road game and the opposing fans DIDN'T rush the court.

That's why I miss having Maryland in the conference. They would riot after our games, win or lose.

devildeac
12-11-2015, 12:28 PM
That's why I miss having Maryland in the conference. They would riot after our games, win or lose.

Strangely, I don't miss them. Win or lose. Riot or no riot. :rolleyes:;)

Although still one of my all-time favorite signs in CIS is: A mind is a terrapin thing to waste :o .

BlueDevil2K
12-11-2015, 04:40 PM
I've been trying to keep count ... I think the last time Duke rushed the court was when Dockery's near-halfcourt heave beat Virginia Tech in December of 2005.

Nope...well, not really. A few people from over near the Duke bench?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzImKUL8mlo

I remember this distinctly because I'm the one in the bright green shirt at the top of the screen approaching half-court at the top of the screen at the 0:24 point. I remember thinking that if I could just get to the far end of the court before anybody realized what had just happened, I wouldn't get trampled! Turned out that everybody pretty much stayed in the stands.

Dukehky
12-11-2015, 06:03 PM
Just curious, if you loathe it why did you do it?

I actually did it during the UNC game in football where we got bowl eligible. It was a great win. I ran on the field, then realized that none of the players cared I was there, they were huddled by themselves. It just wasn't fun. I thought it would be awesome, it was not that sweet.

Ichabod Drain
12-11-2015, 07:08 PM
I actually did it during the UNC game in football where we got bowl eligible. It was a great win. I ran on the field, then realized that none of the players cared I was there, they were huddled by themselves. It just wasn't fun. I thought it would be awesome, it was not that sweet.

So it's reasonable to assume most college kids today also think it will be awesome. And because they think it's awesome, if given the opportunity they'll go for it.

BD80
12-11-2015, 08:10 PM
What is so fun about rushing the court? It's just kids who want to go on the court where they aren't normally allowed. Hurray, we're on the court jumping up and down. We aren't anywhere near the players because most of the time they just go to the line, sometimes they get up on the scorer's table, but no one can see them.

Fans need to stay in the stands, and if players want to go celebrate with the students, then go to the student's section. Basketball courts are too small to have thousands of people running onto them. Football fields are huge, football players also have protection. Helmets, pads, what have you. Basketball players are so vulnerable. Ban court storming. I've done it. You get out there and its exciting for like 2 seconds, then its like, okay, what the hell do we do now? Also, now people only want to take videos of it with their phone so they can show their friends "OMG look how crazy it got, look how WILD i am, I'm a crazy guy." God I absolutely loathe it.

Come on, if they are rushing the court, at least they are staying off your lawn for that period of time