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roywhite
03-09-2008, 07:13 PM
Apparently attended last night's Duke-UNC game w/o permission, and then missed team shoot-around this morning (something about a missed wake-up call for his flight back). He is in uniform for game, but reportedly will not play, also faces heavy fine.

From the team's standpoint, they are scrambling to get the #8 playoff spot, and don't need this unprofessional behavior.

FerryFor50
03-09-2008, 07:18 PM
Apparently attended last night's Duke-UNC game w/o permission, and then missed team shoot-around this morning (something about a missed wake-up call for his flight back). He is in uniform for game, but reportedly will not play, also faces heavy fine.

From the team's standpoint, they are scrambling to get the #8 playoff spot, and don't need this unprofessional behavior.

They've been screwing him over lately. They nearly traded him, then realized the couldn't, and now he's been riding the pine. He's gone after this season from the Bulls anyway, so what does he care? They haven't exactly treated him with much professionalism either.

weezie
03-09-2008, 07:21 PM
The Bulls are a mess. It could not have been that much fun having to put up with Noah antics and now they're just desperate for the eight spot?
Duhon sure seemed like his old friendly self when we saw him on Ninth St yesterday.

dukegirlinsc
03-09-2008, 07:22 PM
I just caught the end of the commentary at the start of the game...I'm glad you posted this so I can understand what's going on.

I love Chris to pieces, but I agree with the Coach's decision. I don't think, under any circumstances, playoff hunt or not, should that happen. If permission was granted, that's one thing.

But I suppose there may be underlying circumstances we aren't aware of. It's kinda out of Chris' character, IMO. Hope things get worked out though.

FerryFor50
03-09-2008, 07:25 PM
I just caught the end of the commentary at the start of the game...I'm glad you posted this so I can understand what's going on.

I love Chris to pieces, but I agree with the Coach's decision. I don't think, under any circumstances, playoff hunt or not, should that happen. If permission was granted, that's one thing.

But I suppose there may be underlying circumstances we aren't aware of. It's kinda out of Chris' character, IMO. Hope things get worked out though.

Well, think of it this way.

You go to work one day. Your boss says, "we're firing you. Find a new job."

The next day, he calls you. "You're re-hired. Turns out we can't fire you yet. We'll fire you in a couple months. Instead of actually working, we're going to sit you in the lobby and make you watch people come in to work. But you get paid no matter what happens from here."

Are you REALLY going to put in 100% after that?

DukeDevilDeb
03-09-2008, 07:28 PM
I know Chris well and loved him while he was here, but the way the Bulls are treating him now is a reflection of his rather cavalier attitude about things like team meetings, Sunday practices, drinking too much in public places, etc. He has been flat-out wrong many times with them, and they had his back. But now, they feel they cannot support a player who isn't 100% focused on winning and on the game. And sadly, I don't blame them.

Chris was told some weeks ago that he would not be played any more... they were building toward next year, and he was not a part of their plans. He is hurt and angry... and I don't blame him a bit for that. But he is not without complicity in this.

He also should not have been too surprised. The Bulls are very deep at guard, with guys who are making the All-Star team repeatedly. Chris has been through multiple shooting slumps, and they've continued to work with him because of his on-the-court leadership and defense.

But you can only have a player behave inappropriately so many times before you say adios!

I wish Chris could manage some of his decisions better. While he appears to be extraordinarly mature (see all his focus on helping Louisiana and particularly Slidell in the face of Katrina), my take is that he is really not as grown up as he should be at this point.

We'll see if he gets another chance in the league... but I sort of doubt it. He may be playing in Europe or elsewhere next year too!

Jumbo
03-09-2008, 07:30 PM
They've been screwing him over lately. They nearly traded him, then realized the couldn't, and now he's been riding the pine. He's gone after this season from the Bulls anyway, so what does he care? They haven't exactly treated him with much professionalism either.

"What does he care?" It's called acting like a professional. If this were Rashad McCants, I'm sure you'd be singing the same tune...

FerryFor50
03-09-2008, 07:30 PM
I know Chris well and loved him while he was here, but the way the Bulls are treating him now is a reflection of his rather cavalier attitude about things like team meetings, Sunday practices, drinking too much in public places, etc. He has been flat-out wrong many times with them, and they had his back. But now, they feel they cannot support a player who isn't 100% focused on winning and on the game. And sadly, I don't blame them.

Chris was told some weeks ago that he would not be played any more... they were building toward next year, and he was not a part of their plans. He is hurt and angry... and I don't blame him a bit for that. But he is not without complicity in this.

He also should not have been too surprised. The Bulls are very deep at guard, with guys who are making the All-Star team repeatedly. Chris has been through multiple shooting slumps, and they've continued to work with him because of his on-the-court leadership and defense.

But you can only have a player behave inappropriately so many times before you say adios!

I wish Chris could manage some of his decisions better. While he appears to be extraordinarly mature (see all his focus on helping Louisiana and particularly Slidell in the face of Katrina), my take is that he is really not as grown up as he should be at this point.

We'll see if he gets another chance in the league... but I sort of doubt it. He may be playing in Europe or elsewhere next year too!

I think Chris will get another chance. The Cavs could use a young point guard.

Had no idea about his off the court antics though...

FerryFor50
03-09-2008, 07:32 PM
"What does he care?" It's called acting like a professional. If this were Rashad McCants, I'm sure you'd be singing the same tune...

I'd probably be reaming him because he's a Tar Hole and an azz.

But any other NBA player from any other college, I'd be saying the same thing. It's not right that teams can jerk around players and then fine them because they don't put in 100%.

weezie
03-09-2008, 07:32 PM
Well, that's one thing about the good ol'DBR, you certainly get a 360 look at just about everything that is posted. Many sides to every issue.

Constantstrain 81
03-09-2008, 07:33 PM
He doesn't shoot well. He does have some off court issues. But the Bulls win when Duhon plays significant minutes and they don't win when he doesn't. It has been that way since he joined the Bulls. His leadership, savvy, and defense are important on the court. I'm glad he is leaving the Bulls - maybe I don't have to root for them anymore.

Jumbo
03-09-2008, 07:34 PM
The Bulls are very deep at guard, with guys who are making the All-Star team repeatedly.

Who would those All-Stars be?



We'll see if he gets another chance in the league... but I sort of doubt it. He may be playing in Europe or elsewhere next year too!

He does need to grow up, but he'll definitely be in the league next year. There are a lot of bad point guards in the NBA, and Chris shouldn't have trouble finding a job.

dukie8
03-09-2008, 07:39 PM
he had some serious ice in his ears last night.

Mudge
03-09-2008, 07:43 PM
He doesn't shoot well. He does have some off court issues. But the Bulls win when Duhon plays significant minutes and they don't win when he doesn't. It has been that way since he joined the Bulls. His leadership, savvy, and defense are important on the court. I'm glad he is leaving the Bulls - maybe I don't have to root for them anymore.

Why is he having problems shooting? I am surprised to hear this-- not saying it isn't true, I just don't understand why-- this is a guy who came into Duke as the McDonald's All-America game 3-point shooting contest winner, a guy who supposedly was the best pure shooter in HS his senior year-- a guy who Jason Williams and other teammates claimed for years had the best form and best shot of anyone on Duke's team-- why is he having so many problems now?

dukegirlinsc
03-09-2008, 07:46 PM
Well, think of it this way.

You go to work one day. Your boss says, "we're firing you. Find a new job."

The next day, he calls you. "You're re-hired. Turns out we can't fire you yet. We'll fire you in a couple months. Instead of actually working, we're going to sit you in the lobby and make you watch people come in to work. But you get paid no matter what happens from here."

Are you REALLY going to put in 100% after that?

I agree whole-heartedly. I didn't know he had such drama going on with the Bulls, but I just did some researching and I suppose I should have done so before I spoke.

And I've actually been put in an oddly similar situation myself. (Long story short: I was laid off, then asked to stay a few weeks to train one of my co-workers. HA!) And I reacted the same way. I refused to do it. So, in turn, if he's been treated unfairly, then I somewhat understand. It's still a tiny bit unprofessional, IMO.

FerryFor50
03-09-2008, 07:46 PM
Why is he having problems shooting? I am surprised to hear this-- not saying it isn't true, I just don't understand why-- this is a guy who came into Duke as the McDonald's All-America game 3-point shooting contest winner, a guy who supposedly was the best pure shooter in HS his senior year-- a guy who Jason Williams and other teammates claimed for years had the best form and best shot of anyone on Duke's team-- why is he having so many problems now?

He's shooting 33% from 3 and 36% overall. He never was much of a scorer in college from what I remember, at least when he wasn't wide open. He was more of a smart ball handling assist man.

dukegirlinsc
03-09-2008, 07:47 PM
he had some serious ice in his ears last night.

I noticed that as well. Blinded. :cool:

FerryFor50
03-09-2008, 07:48 PM
I agree whole-heartedly. I didn't know he had such drama going on with the Bulls, but I just did some researching and I suppose I should have done so before I spoke.

And I've actually been put in an oddly similar situation myself. (Long story short: I was laid off, then asked to stay a few weeks to train one of my co-workers. HA!) And I reacted the same way. I refused to do it. So, in turn, if he's been treated unfairly, then I somewhat understand. It's still a tiny bit unprofessional, IMO.

Oh, definitely unprofessional. But I don't think we should fault the dude for doing it.

However, if he has been kind of a hassle off the court and hasn't dedicated himself to his craft, then the story is a little different. A change of scenery would be good for both sides.

SilkyJ
03-09-2008, 07:48 PM
They've been screwing him over lately. They nearly traded him, then realized the couldn't, and now he's been riding the pine. He's gone after this season from the Bulls anyway, so what does he care? They haven't exactly treated him with much professionalism either.

that's not screwing someone over, thats how it works in the pros. lot's of people are involved in trade rumors/talks all the time. jon paxson is a professional guy and I'm sure he treated chris like a professional.


Well, think of it this way.

You go to work one day. Your boss says, "we're firing you. Find a new job."

The next day, he calls you. "You're re-hired. Turns out we can't fire you yet. We'll fire you in a couple months.

That's not a good analogy at all. First of all, getting traded is not like getting fired. It would be more akin to getting moved to a different business unit and still have a job, just with different people. Not the case so much when you get fired.

And they won't be "firing" him in at the end of season. They have a contract that lasts 3 years, its the end of the contract. Its not like they are even passing on an option.


Who would those All-Stars be?


Absolutely no one (as I'm sure you know). Ben Wallace was their only one pre-trade, I think.

Mudge
03-09-2008, 07:49 PM
He's shooting 33% from 3 and 36% overall. He never was much of a scorer in college from what I remember, at least when he wasn't wide open. He was more of a smart ball handling assist man.

I believe the numbers, but why? This doesn't tell me why-- he was supposed to be one of the most gifted shooters ever, coming out of HS...

FerryFor50
03-09-2008, 07:50 PM
that's not screwing someone over, thats how it works in the pros. lot's of people are involved in trade rumors/talks all the time. jon paxson is a professional guy and I'm sure he treated chris like a professional.





That's not a good analogy at all. First of all, getting traded is not like getting fired. It would be more akin to getting moved to a different business unit. And they won't be "firing" him in at the end of season. They have a contract that lasts 3 years, its the end of the contract. Its not like they are even passing on an option.



Absolutely no one (as I'm sure you know). Ben Wallace was their only one pre-trade, I think.

They basically told him he wasn't playing the rest of the year, flat out. They are going in a different direction.

Then they want to use the "we're in a playoff race" excuse. Who's in a playoff race? The Bulls. The Bulls no longer consider Duhon a part of the team. Therefore, he's not a part of the playoff run. That's pretty unprofessional to me. I know it's how it works in the pros regarding the trading scenarios, but this case is difference. They have already, in a sense, fired him. They just want him on the bench for garbage time and to "earn" the rest of the contract.

FerryFor50
03-09-2008, 07:53 PM
I believe the numbers, but why? This doesn't tell me why-- he was supposed to be one of the most gifted shooters ever, coming out of HS...

Maybe, like some have suggested, he hasn't put the work in to keep his game sharp. If he's more interested in the lifestyle than the game, then that might be a reason. He didn't seem like the type to coast by on his talent, but maybe he is. They say if you don't use it, you lose it...

Plus, the NBA is full of defenders way more athletic than Duhon.

dukemsu
03-09-2008, 07:56 PM
Living in Chicagoland as I do, this has been brewing for awhile with Chris, as DukeDevilDeb mentioned.

He has been noticed out drinking in public places to the point where it's become a local media joke (on one radio station, Pulling a Du has become a catchphrase). He has not handled things all that well here, being late to shootarounds and such. I was a bit worried when I saw that he was at the game last night-wasn't sure how he got permission for that. Looks like he didn't.

Strange as this is, he has had moments of really good play, such as the Bulls' run to the playoffs last year. He is a true point guard who looked to set up his teammates first and played decent D considering he is somewhat undersized.

And that's where the big problem is. 6'1" guards simply are not a growth enterprise in today's NBA unless you are Iverson quick or are deadeye from the perimeter (neither in Chris' case). Sad to say but if Chris were 6'6" or shooting 55%, I don't think the off-the-court issues would be mentioned so much.

Hopefully his upcoming change of scenery will help and he can get himself together. To be fair, I haven't heard nearly as much about his being out late this year as I did last year, when it seemed to be an epidemic. Maybe he's already made strides there.

heyman25
03-09-2008, 07:57 PM
He should give DeMarcus pointers on how to finish dribble drives. Chris had a great deal more success than DeMarcus has had with that shot.DeMarcus needs to shoot more teardrop shots than forcing the shot that is contested.

dukie8
03-09-2008, 07:57 PM
I believe the numbers, but why? This doesn't tell me why-- he was supposed to be one of the most gifted shooters ever, coming out of HS...

why do you think he is some great shooter because he won a controlled competition in high school with no defense and very limited other entrants? i'm sure there were 100 other guys in high school who would have beaten him that year in a 3-point shooting contest but who couldn't do half the other things duhon could do on the court and couldn't hit a single shot with live defense.

for the record, his career numbers at duke were 42% fg and 32% for 3pts. his junior year he was 39% and 27%. i loved his game but outside shooting wasn't one of his fortes.

mph
03-09-2008, 08:03 PM
"What does he care?" It's called acting like a professional.

Well said.

I have nothing but respect for the way Duhon conducted himself at Duke, but he's not been a model teammate during his time with the Bulls. Duhon signed a contract and agreed to fulfill certain responsibilities. The fact that Chicago plans to let him go next season in no way justifies missing team functions without permission. Part of being a good teammate is realizing that your behavior impacts the entire team, not just the coach or owner.

If professional responsibility isn't a sufficient motivator, the fact that he might be hurting his value as a free agent should cause him to walk the line.

DukeDevilDeb
03-09-2008, 08:11 PM
Who would those All-Stars be?




He does need to grow up, but he'll definitely be in the league next year. There are a lot of bad point guards in the NBA, and Chris shouldn't have trouble finding a job.

I agree that there are several places where Chris could do well. I hope THEY realize it too1

DukeDevilDeb
03-09-2008, 08:15 PM
Well said.

I have nothing but respect for the way Duhon conducted himself at Duke, but he's not been a model teammate during his time with the Bulls. Duhon signed a contract and agreed to fulfill certain responsibilities. The fact that Chicago plans to let him go next season in no way justifies missing team functions without permission. Part of being a good teammate is realizing that your behavior impacts the entire team, not just the coach or owner.

If professional responsibility isn't a sufficient motivator, the fact that he might be hurting his value as a free agent should cause him to walk the line.

... but Chris' behavior at Duke (off the court) was a precursor to his recent behavior. No one spent more time at George's with a drink in his hand... and I've heard that, but for the managers, he would have been late to practice more than once.

You just don't behave like this out of nowhere. Sadly, it is an established pattern. One thing I do believe, though... Chris could, if he so choose, suck it up and put it back together. I just hope he does! Come on, Chris!

DukeDevilDeb
03-09-2008, 08:18 PM
I know Chris well and loved him while he was here, but the way the Bulls are treating him now is a reflection of his rather cavalier attitude about things like team meetings, Sunday practices, drinking too much in public places, etc. He has been flat-out wrong many times with them, and they had his back. But now, they feel they cannot support a player who isn't 100% focused on winning and on the game. And sadly, I don't blame them.

Chris was told some weeks ago that he would not be played any more... they were building toward next year, and he was not a part of their plans. He is hurt and angry... and I don't blame him a bit for that. But he is not without complicity in this.

He also should not have been too surprised. The Bulls are very deep at guard, with guys who are making the All-Star team repeatedly. Chris has been through multiple shooting slumps, and they've continued to work with him because of his on-the-court leadership and defense.

But you can only have a player behave inappropriately so many times before you say adios!

I wish Chris could manage some of his decisions better. While he appears to be extraordinarly mature (see all his focus on helping Louisiana and particularly Slidell in the face of Katrina), my take is that he is really not as grown up as he should be at this point.

We'll see if he gets another chance in the league... but I sort of doubt it. He may be playing in Europe or elsewhere next year too!

I should have put a ;) after my comment about Bulls' players making the All-Star team repeatedly.

My bad.

yancem
03-09-2008, 08:49 PM
why do you think he is some great shooter because he won a controlled competition in high school with no defense and very limited other entrants? i'm sure there were 100 other guys in high school who would have beaten him that year in a 3-point shooting contest but who couldn't do half the other things duhon could do on the court and couldn't hit a single shot with live defense.

for the record, his career numbers at duke were 42% fg and 32% for 3pts. his junior year he was 39% and 27%. i loved his game but outside shooting wasn't one of his fortes.

Actually, coming out of high school he was considered a great pure shooter. When he got to Duke his freshman year there were several comments about him being the best shooter on the team. Unfortunately, something happened to his touch somewhere along the way. He never demonstrated the same shooting ability in college as he did in high school. I can only guess that is a confidence/mental block issue because his form is pretty much picture perfect. He has had his moments though, like couple of weeks ago when he went 11-16, 4-6 3 pt., 8-9 ft for 34 pts. Unfortunately he can't seem to shoot like that consistently.

CameronBornAndBred
03-09-2008, 09:40 PM
I think it's interesting that even after it looked like he would be riding the pine the remainder of the year, he played 26 minutes Friday night and scored 11 points. That's more minutes than Hinrich got, and he started. But if I had the chance to see Duke-UNC in Cameron, I'd be tempted too.

SilkyJ
03-09-2008, 10:34 PM
They basically told him he wasn't playing the rest of the year, flat out. They are going in a different direction.

Then they want to use the "we're in a playoff race" excuse. Who's in a playoff race? The Bulls. The Bulls no longer consider Duhon a part of the team. Therefore, he's not a part of the playoff run. That's pretty unprofessional to me.

I know you feel this way. you already said so. I don't see how your rebutting anything I said.

Just so you know: every team in the league has guys on their bench, many of them with contracts larger than Duhon's, who don't play much if at all and certainly will not play at all come playoff time. Guys move up and down in the rotation all the time. This happens in every pro sport. Guys move up and down the depth chart and sometimes, like in baseball and more and more so in basketball, guys move to the minors. They made an acquisition that moved him down the depth chart. He's not really that good ya know. He's solid and steady but gordon, hinrich, and hughes are all significantly better.



Bulls no longer consider Duhon a part of the team

I have to take particular exception to this statement. Is he not suiting up for games and coming ready to play every night?



I know it's how it works in the pros regarding the trading scenarios, but this case is difference. They have already, in a sense, fired him. They just want him on the bench for garbage time and to "earn" the rest of the contract.

Again, I know you feel this way, but I don't see how making someone finish out a contract is firing someone. In the business world it would be unprofessional to not finish a contract, so I maintain I don't think its a good analogy. He's getting paid right now and for the next couple months. People who get fired don't get by their supposed employers. If he's been told they don't want to negotiate with him next year then he's a free agent (which some guys want!)

Not to mention you keep good players on the bench for a couple of reasons like keeping practice competitive and for depth in case of injury. Someone goes down for a stretch and you need to win some games whether its getting to the playoffs or winning playoff games having someone who has started and won lot of games and played in playoff games is a nice crutch to have...

Pernell
03-10-2008, 09:24 AM
Thanks for the background on Chris in the Chicago area. Somewhat startling to hear...

It was bad enough to see Chris laughing as I watched the game yesterday. But then to hear the commentators make mention of it was even worse, particularly since he's from the Duke family. For a minute I felt like he was Rashad McCants...

Hopefully someone in his inner crew can help redirect him so he can learn from this experience. Nothing is guaranteed...

And regarding his future, Brevin Knight--a good friend from h.s.-- has played several years in the league without a jumper and he's definitely undersized. Obviously he's quicker that Chris but still there is a need for solid point guards to efficiently run the offense. So I think if Chris is matures from this situation and works hard he should be able to find some suitors...

ClosetHurleyFan
03-10-2008, 09:28 AM
I'd probably be reaming him because he's a Tar Hole and an azz.

But any other NBA player from any other college, I'd be saying the same thing. It's not right that teams can jerk around players and then fine them because they don't put in 100%.
Maybe you ought to update your info. Funny, the trainer who worked McCant's rehab from knee surgery over teh last year said he never had a guy work so hard to come back. Volatile yes, ^$%^$%^$%, that might be a bit strong. Sometimes people grow up as they age you know?

And you know, sometimes I hope people dont change too much. As much as Laettner irritates me, I loved the fact that he blew kisses to the crowd at ACC tournament last year.....just to piss everyone off and get the predictable response...

johnb
03-10-2008, 09:33 AM
Is it professional to have an unexcused absence while under contract? My first reaction is, "of course not." Upon reflection, it depends upon your definition of professional. As a physician, I have a whole set of ethical precepts that I accept as part of the privileges of being a doctor. These might include not manipulating patients to have procedures that are not in their best interest or not engaging patients in either business or sex. To do so would not necessarily send me to jail but would likely lead to expulsion from my profession. Similarly, if I am treated badly at the medical school at which I work, I can't just not show up to see patients. On the other hand, most meetings tend to be skimpily attended and generally start late.

A second definition relates to being conscientious in a more general sense, and in my field, conscientiousness is important, but not in regards to most meetings.

A third definition is more ambiguous and refers to such activities as being professional at war, basketball, or real estate. In each, there are activities that would not be considered ethical within medicine. For example, soldiers kill people (so do we, but it's avoided) while real estate brokers are not necessarily looking to help their clients make the right decision (real estate has restrictions, but beneficence is not mandatory). In professional sports (and in the military), one of the fundamental ethical principles is showing up on time. These multi-millionaires get fined for being late for team meetings, for practice, etc., and it doesn't happen very often. It's actually pretty striking that missing a team meeting gets reported in the newspaper; can you imagine what would happen if the newspaper reported every time anyone was late for a routine meeting? To my mind, then, a core ethic of professional basketball is showing up. If Chris didn't get permission for going to the game, then I believe pretty strongly that he has no leg to stand on when it comes to complaints about his professional behavior.

UrinalCake
03-10-2008, 09:46 AM
Man, I would love for someone to pay me to sit around and do nothing. If I could do on a front-row seat at an NBA game every night, that would be even better. How do I convince my boss? :)

FerryFor50
03-10-2008, 09:51 AM
Maybe you ought to update your info. Funny, the trainer who worked McCant's rehab from knee surgery over teh last year said he never had a guy work so hard to come back. Volatile yes, ^$%^$%^$%, that might be a bit strong. Sometimes people grow up as they age you know?

And you know, sometimes I hope people dont change too much. As much as Laettner irritates me, I loved the fact that he blew kisses to the crowd at ACC tournament last year.....just to piss everyone off and get the predictable response...

Rasheed Wallace never grew up. Neither did Jerry Stackhouse or Joe Forte.

I don't expect McCants to grow up either, but who knows?

I'd spend more time defending the classy UNC players if I were you, like Antawn Jamison.

FerryFor50
03-10-2008, 09:52 AM
Is it professional to have an unexcused absence while under contract? My first reaction is, "of course not." Upon reflection, it depends upon your definition of professional. As a physician, I have a whole set of ethical precepts that I accept as part of the privileges of being a doctor. These might include not manipulating patients to have procedures that are not in their best interest or not engaging patients in either business or sex. To do so would not necessarily send me to jail but would likely lead to expulsion from my profession. Similarly, if I am treated badly at the medical school at which I work, I can't just not show up to see patients. On the other hand, most meetings tend to be skimpily attended and generally start late.

A second definition relates to being conscientious in a more general sense, and in my field, conscientiousness is important, but not in regards to most meetings.

A third definition is more ambiguous and refers to such activities as being professional at war, basketball, or real estate. In each, there are activities that would not be considered ethical within medicine. For example, soldiers kill people (so do we, but it's avoided) while real estate brokers are not necessarily looking to help their clients make the right decision (real estate has restrictions, but beneficence is not mandatory). In professional sports (and in the military), one of the fundamental ethical principles is showing up on time. These multi-millionaires get fined for being late for team meetings, for practice, etc., and it doesn't happen very often. It's actually pretty striking that missing a team meeting gets reported in the newspaper; can you imagine what would happen if the newspaper reported every time anyone was late for a routine meeting? To my mind, then, a core ethic of professional basketball is showing up. If Chris didn't get permission for going to the game, then I believe pretty strongly that he has no leg to stand on when it comes to complaints about his professional behavior.

Yea, I can see your point on this. But other professions gets a set number of vacation days where you can request time off, even if it's to go to a basketball game.

EarlJam
03-10-2008, 10:02 AM
I noticed that as well. Blinded. :cool:

Why did Duhon have ice in his ear? An injury?

-EarlJam

P.S. EarlJam is only joking. He understands that "ice" is a subcategory of "Bling."

P.S.S. And sorry if this does not add substance to the conversation. I will do so now just by saying, "Two wrongs do not make a right." If they (The Bulls) are wronging Duhon, he still shouldn't break the rules as long as he is employeed by them. That is not cool.

P.S.S. That said, EarlJam agrees with what Duhon did.

ClosetHurleyFan
03-10-2008, 10:10 AM
What did Stackhouse ever do?

Wouldnt be able to comment on Forte....have no idea if he grew up

And since we are on the subject of performance as a professional, seems to me that Rasheed Wallace was the most important off-season change the pistons made the year before their title. Can Duhon make such a claim? Do you know Rasheed personally? My best friend roomed with him in college and would actually contradict most of what is said about him on this and other boards....

Biscuit King
03-10-2008, 10:40 AM
I'm a big Duhon fan, and I hope he pulls a Brett Favre-type wake up when he goes to a new team next year. But I won't hold my breath. And I don't see any reasons to make excuses for his behavior, which has been erratic both in college and the pros. If he has an alcohol problem, I sure hope the people around him are trying to help him address it. Because we all want to see him do well... and clearly he has the ability to succeed in the NBA. At this point, though, it seems unlikely he will overcome these problems...

...kind of makes you wonder if JWill ever turns to Duhon and grabs him by the shoulders and says, "DUDE, you have the greatest opportunity in the world; quit blowing it!"

DukeDevilDeb
03-10-2008, 11:26 AM
Thanks for the background on Chris in the Chicago area. Somewhat startling to hear...

It was bad enough to see Chris laughing as I watched the game yesterday. But then to hear the commentators make mention of it was even worse, particularly since he's from the Duke family. For a minute I felt like he was Rashad McCants...

Hopefully someone in his inner crew can help redirect him so he can learn from this experience. Nothing is guaranteed...

And regarding his future, Brevin Knight--a good friend from h.s.-- has played several years in the league without a jumper and he's definitely undersized. Obviously he's quicker that Chris but still there is a need for solid point guards to efficiently run the offense. So I think if Chris is matures from this situation and works hard he should be able to find some suitors...

When was Chris laughing and what was he laughing at?

weezie
03-10-2008, 11:36 AM
And since we are on the subject of performance as a professional, seems to me that Rasheed Wallace was the most important off-season change the pistons made the year before their title....Do you know Rasheed personally? My best friend roomed with him in college and would actually contradict most of what is said about him on this and other boards....


I'm a Detroiter so I love Rasheed. Most media comments on his on court behaviours bring his philanthropic activities into the mix. He's adored in the D. I loved his one and only comment on that game-fixing Donaghy bum, "I TOLD Y'ALL!" And the big fella was right.
Yes, he's a 'hole, but he's a consumate gamer.

Cameron
03-10-2008, 12:38 PM
[Duhon] never was much of a scorer in college from what I remember, at least when he wasn't wide open.

He was exactly this as a freshman and sophomore. His first year at Duke, on the great 2001 NCAA title team, he was our third best distance shooter behind Shane and Jason (in terms of who I felt comfortable launching the triple). Outside of Dunleavy's national championship barrage, Duhon hit perhaps Duke's three biggest baskets of the tournament during the regional finals against USC, when he stepped up and nailed a trifecta of bombs to help put us ahead for good.

Chris' range was unbelievable as a sophomore, as well. He and Jason made up what I still think to this day is the greatest one-two backcourt shooting punch in the last ten years. They were amazing when they got hot from beyond the arc. Go back and place the 2002 Wake Forest game tape in the VCR/DVD player and try to dispute that. When Chris and Jason were feeling it, they could come down the court in perfectly orchestrated sequences and drill 25 footer after 25 footer. After Chris hit an insane three from about 30 feet out in that Wake game, I remember Dick Vitale yelling, "Williams and Duhon are the best two point guards in the nation. They are 1A and 1B."

I also remember the game at Virginia on Valentine's Day 2001, when Duhon scored 20 points and hit 5 of 6 from long range. When Chris lined up to catch and shoot during his first two seasons in Durham, he was deadly. I know his percentages weren't in line with guys like Williams, Battier, and later Redick, but Chris was a great long range shooter in the beginning.

He showed flashes of that brilliance later on, but it would never again be the same as those first two years. How Duhon shot 19 percent leading all the way up to the first Carolina game during his junior season, I will never know...

SilkyJ
03-10-2008, 12:43 PM
Rasheed Wallace never grew up. Neither did Jerry Stackhouse or Joe Forte.

I don't expect McCants to grow up either, but who knows?

I'd spend more time defending the classy UNC players if I were you, like Antawn Jamison.

Best thing you've said yet!


Do you know Rasheed personally? My best friend roomed with him in college and would actually contradict most of what is said about him on this and other boards....

The # of technical fouls he has received over his career would contradict just about anything you're friend would say. The guy is a jerk

Kilby
03-10-2008, 12:52 PM
He was exactly this as a freshman and sophomore. His first year at Duke, on the great 2001 NCAA title team, he was our third best distance shooter behind Shane and Jason (in terms of who I felt comfortable launching the triple). Outside of Dunleavy's national championship barrage, Duhon hit perhaps Duke's three biggest baskets of the tournament during the regional finals against USC, when he stepped up and nailed a trifecta of bombs to help put us ahead for good.

He showed flashes of that brilliance later on, but it would never again be the same as those first two years. How Duhon shot 19 percent leading all the way up to the first Carolina game during his junior season, I will never know...

I too thought of Duhon as a great three point shooting during his first two years. It seemed to me that his bulking up hurt his shooting and that he would eventually adjust. Never thought he regained his confidence.

ClosetHurleyFan
03-10-2008, 01:44 PM
Best thing you've said yet!



The # of technical fouls he has received over his career would contradict just about anything you're friend would say. The guy is a jerk
Hmmm....funny. Hate to think the rest of us will be judged based upon such a limited metric on our lives.

His comments were he was one of the nicest guys he knew, in practice, one of the most selfless players he played with, sometimes to a fault

But hey, maybe I should take your word for it.....you know, based on the number of technical fouls.

blazindw
03-10-2008, 02:12 PM
I'm a Detroiter so I love Rasheed. Most media comments on his on court behaviours bring his philanthropic activities into the mix. He's adored in the D. I loved his one and only comment on that game-fixing Donaghy bum, "I TOLD Y'ALL!" And the big fella was right.
Yes, he's a 'hole, but he's a consumate gamer.

Me too. Rasheed is one of the most beloved Pistons by fans, and every player on the team would tell you he is the best teammate, and will do anything to help his teammates. He really is a gamer, and does a ton for the Detroit community.

EarlJam
03-10-2008, 04:54 PM
Me too. Rasheed is one of the most beloved Pistons by fans, and every player on the team would tell you he is the best teammate, and will do anything to help his teammates. He really is a gamer, and does a ton for the Detroit community.

True. The number of technical fouls is more likely a sign of his passion and zeal for the game.

I sure would hate to have my character judged by the number of technical fouls I recevied as the starting power forward for the GCI Flaming Corndogs of Atlanta's Div. II City Rec League in Atlanta in the late 90s.

Yes, it's true. It's true. I really did start for the GCI Flaming Corndogs and averaged 18.5 points a game. Now that the secrets out, I just ask that you respect my privacy and keep the PMs to a minimum.

-EJ

I.A. - Seriously, I know a lot of people whose competitiveness on the field of play does not accurately reflect who they are as a human being. In fact, some of the most fierce on the field are the nicest in person.

SilkyJ
03-10-2008, 05:03 PM
His comments were he was one of the nicest guys he knew, in practice, one of the most selfless players he played with, sometimes to a fault

But hey, maybe I should take your word for it.....you know, based on the number of technical fouls.

oh my goodness, he passed to his teammates a lot in practice! I bet the coach was furious!

he runs his mouth way too much before/during/after games, and gets t-ed up a ton. That kind of behavior is indicative to me that you are classless and a jerk.

(for the record, its not like he just gets T-ed up a lot. He set an NBA single season record for technicals. Then broke his own record the FOLLOWING year. He also was suspended for multiple games for THREATENING A REFEREE AFTER A GAME. Do you have an explanation for that?)

cspan37421
03-10-2008, 05:23 PM
correct me if I'm wrong, but since he became a Piston, Rasheed hasn't come close to being the same level of petulant hothead he was in Portland. He may not be a Shane Battier in terms of class, but perhaps there was something about playing in Portland back then that can push a borderline guy over the edge.

cspan37421
03-10-2008, 05:27 PM
BTW I hope Chris gets his head together and takes this NBA thing more seriously. I suspect if he keeps to the usual script, he's going to regret it down the road (and sadden some of us Dukies who would like to see in him a more postive reflection of our school).

jma4life
03-10-2008, 05:32 PM
Stackhouse seems like hes been a very professional guy at least with the Mavs. I know he had a fight with Laettner at one point but that was a while ago. Definitely seems like a highly mature guy now.

I put Wallace in the Artest/S. Jackson territory. I don't doubt that he cares a lot for his teammates and is a selfless guy on the court. I don't doubt that he does a lot for the community in Detroit. Still, dude has a lot of other issues.

Classof06
03-10-2008, 05:35 PM
Echoing some previous posts, this is not the first time the Bulls have punished Duhon for missing team functions. The past few years, Duhon has certainly missed his share of practices and shootarounds.

I won't condone Duhon's actions but the Bulls franchise has been a complete mess this year and Duhon is far from one of the major problems concerning this franchise as of right now. It's clear Duhon won't be a Bull for much longer but he still needs to act like a professional; that's what he's supposed to be in the first place.

Duhon's reputation throughout the league is far from what McRoberts' has become so he still has time to shape up. Josh does too, he just doesn't have much of a reputation to lean against; Duhon has proven he can play in the league.

weezie
03-10-2008, 05:40 PM
I sure would hate to have my character judged by the number of technical fouls I recevied as the starting power forward for the GCI Flaming Corndogs of Atlanta's Div. II City Rec League in Atlanta in the late 90s.

Yes, it's true. It's true. I really did start for the GCI Flaming Corndogs and averaged 18.5 points a game. Now that the secrets out, I just ask that you respect my privacy and keep the PMs to a minimum.



Wow. And I thought I was the only incognito sports celebrity here, having been a league "Player of Merit" for the Convent of the Sacred Heart basketball team as the center in junior high. EJ, I am humbled by your achievements!:)

MChambers
03-10-2008, 08:22 PM
I put Wallace in the Artest/S. Jackson territory. I don't doubt that he cares a lot for his teammates and is a selfless guy on the court. I don't doubt that he does a lot for the community in Detroit. Still, dude has a lot of other issues.

I agree. Read this piece and you'll see some issues:

http://snabulus.blogspot.com/2004/06/two-sides-of-rasheed-wallace.html

HK Dukie
03-10-2008, 09:00 PM
When on an off-day, why should your team (company) have any right to determine what you are doing with your own free time (unless specifically prohibited by contract)?

Missing the shoot-around is one thing and unfortunate. But don't confuse that with being a loyal guy and supporting his school. He has, or should have, the right to do so.

Edit: I also have no problem with Romo going to Mexico.

ForeverBlowingBubbles
03-10-2008, 09:01 PM
I agree that Chris acted unprofessionally.

That said, I think that Chris Duhon is and will always be Chris Duhon.

Chris might have very well thought that the fine was worth seeing the game. He's a competitor who's been told he won't be able to compete. Was he acting a little irrational (and ignoring long-term consequences)? Maybe in some of our eyes. Chris is Chris.

He was late or missed what, a shoot-around? Were not even talkin about practice here. Were talkin about a shoot-around. Not even practice. And its not like Chris Duhon is Allan Iverson - he's been told he won't be playing! So you know what, Chris went to support his Dukies.

He also enjoys on occasion to have a drink in his spare time like a lot of us do. He's 25.

Besides, its not like he gets in the car and goes driving afterwards... :)

FerryFor50
03-11-2008, 12:15 AM
Stackhouse seems like hes been a very professional guy at least with the Mavs. I know he had a fight with Laettner at one point but that was a while ago. Definitely seems like a highly mature guy now.

I put Wallace in the Artest/S. Jackson territory. I don't doubt that he cares a lot for his teammates and is a selfless guy on the court. I don't doubt that he does a lot for the community in Detroit. Still, dude has a lot of other issues.

I think he also sucker punched Jeff Hornacek (when he was a rookie with the Sixers). Real classy guy. Not to mention his one man feud with the Utah Jazz.... (all with him in a Mavs uniform)
http://erraticmagic.blogspot.com/2007/01/stackhouse-takes-bow.html

Also fought Kirk Snyder. AFTER a game.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44504-2005Apr11.html

Also fought his teammate, Jerome Williams, because he criticized his play.

Also, this flagrant foul on Shaq (with the Mavs):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AJz6Op1cBTQ

FerryFor50
03-11-2008, 12:17 AM
True. The number of technical fouls is more likely a sign of his passion and zeal for the game.

I sure would hate to have my character judged by the number of technical fouls I recevied as the starting power forward for the GCI Flaming Corndogs of Atlanta's Div. II City Rec League in Atlanta in the late 90s.

Yes, it's true. It's true. I really did start for the GCI Flaming Corndogs and averaged 18.5 points a game. Now that the secrets out, I just ask that you respect my privacy and keep the PMs to a minimum.

-EJ

I.A. - Seriously, I know a lot of people whose competitiveness on the field of play does not accurately reflect who they are as a human being. In fact, some of the most fierce on the field are the nicest in person.

I dunno. It's one thing to get t'd up because you didn't like a call. It's another to threaten dudes, intentionally and flagrantly foul them, etc. That's Sheed's MO. To me, how a person conducts himself on the court in competition says a LOT about them as a person. The "mask" is off, so to speak.

Channing
03-11-2008, 05:53 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3288269

looks like it went from bad to worse for Chris. Pretty bold statements also ...

BCGroup
03-11-2008, 06:20 PM
This reminds me of a comment a former boss made to me just before I moved and changed jobs. He said, no matter what you do, all people will remember is your exit behavior. Chris had some very positive things in Chicago, but all people will remember is this junk. Too bad.

Exiled_Devil
03-11-2008, 07:12 PM
This reminds me of a comment a former boss made to me just before I moved and changed jobs. He said, no matter what you do, all people will remember is your exit behavior. Chris had some very positive things in Chicago, but all people will remember is this junk. Too bad.

I don't really buy that. It's a great thing for a boss to say - he wants you to act like a good soldier until you leave his realm. You may be judged where you leave for your exit, but where you go to will judge you by your performance in your new role. I think that our culture pushes a philosophy of 'be good to your work' regardless of the fact that organizations have little to no loyalty to individuals.

In the NBA, a good recent example is that Cleveland hates Boozer. Everyone else looks to him as an All-Star phenom in Utah.

johnb
03-11-2008, 07:28 PM
Yea, I can see your point on this. But other professions gets a set number of vacation days where you can request time off, even if it's to go to a basketball game.


Basketball players get half a year off, don't they? My understanding is that professional sports teams expect their players and coaches to show up everywhere and to show up early. If his team specifically said he couldn't go, and he went anyway, it's a serious mistake. Similarly, his team expects him to maintain his body as best he can, and so late night partying is potentially a problem. Even Jordan got slammed for late-night gambling before a game, and he has a statue of himself in Chicago.

FerryFor50
03-11-2008, 07:40 PM
Basketball players get half a year off, don't they? My understanding is that professional sports teams expect their players and coaches to show up everywhere and to show up early. If his team specifically said he couldn't go, and he went anyway, it's a serious mistake. Similarly, his team expects him to maintain his body as best he can, and so late night partying is potentially a problem. Even Jordan got slammed for late-night gambling before a game, and he has a statue of himself in Chicago.

They don't get half a year away - they have to train, go to camps, play in pre-season, etc. Not to mention the side charity work that many of them do... it's a year round job.

sagegrouse
03-11-2008, 07:47 PM
MacBeth, Act I, Scene iv:

Malcolm reporting the death of Cawdor to King Duncan:

"Nothing in his life
Became him like the leaving of it; he died
As one that had been studied in his death
To throw away the dearest thing he ow'd,
As 'twere a careless trifle."

sagegrouse

hondoheel
03-12-2008, 03:42 AM
oh my goodness, he passed to his teammates a lot in practice! I bet the coach was furious!

he runs his mouth way too much before/during/after games, and gets t-ed up a ton. That kind of behavior is indicative to me that you are classless and a jerk.

(for the record, its not like he just gets T-ed up a lot. He set an NBA single season record for technicals. Then broke his own record the FOLLOWING year. He also was suspended for multiple games for THREATENING A REFEREE AFTER A GAME. Do you have an explanation for that?)

The ref (Tim Donaghy) escalated the situation as much as Wallace did. But if you want to stick up for Donaghy, go ahead.

BCGroup
03-12-2008, 05:05 AM
I don't really buy that. It's a great thing for a boss to say - he wants you to act like a good soldier until you leave his realm. You may be judged where you leave for your exit, but where you go to will judge you by your performance in your new role. I think that our culture pushes a philosophy of 'be good to your work' regardless of the fact that organizations have little to no loyalty to individuals.


I can understand your perspective on that, however, I have found it to be true--not just from the perspective of the boss. For example, we have two people who are retiring in about a month. The attitude and actions are entirely different. One probably "retired" three months ago. There's not a person in our department who hasn't noticed, and of course others are having to pick up the slack. I'm in a position where I can recommend others for consulting opportunities, and even though that person is interested in some of that after retirement, I won't recommend them. I would have six months ago. As a second example, about ten years ago, I left a sales/marketing position to go back to school. Before I left, I prepared detailed customer files for whoever came into my position, with complete customer histories (more than what would be in the company's files). In addition to providing them to the company, I gave them to my main customer contact. That was a choice, and although the company never said much about it, I knew it was the right thing to do. Even now, if I meet anyone from my old customer base (which happens), they still talk about how well they were treated. I'm not saying Chirs is entirely wrong here or that the Bulls are totally right--any situation is too complicated for that. I am saying that people remember how you leave--and that lesson I learned 20 years ago has proved to be very true.

FerryFor50
03-12-2008, 08:16 AM
The ref (Tim Donaghy) escalated the situation as much as Wallace did. But if you want to stick up for Donaghy, go ahead.

So threatening bodily harm is still ok?

dukeENG2003
03-12-2008, 10:33 AM
I understand the initial punishment, but the second punishment mistifies me. It was a true statement, and an attempt to deflect the question. The reporter is trying to get him to say "I'm really mad about being suspended" and he didn't. He said it doesn't affect him, and cited a reason why: one that is true, he's been a DNP coaches decision for how many games in a row now?

RepoMan
03-12-2008, 11:25 AM
I like Duhon, but this is pretty unsupportable behavior, if true.

He is the member of a professional basketball team that pays him alot of money, regardless of whether he plays or rides the pine. They are in the midst of an intense competition for a playoff spot (hard to belive, but such is life in the LEast). He blew off a required event, and then trivialized the transgression in the press. I am pretty sure that's not how anyone would want their son to act, regardless of whether he felt slighted by the team's previous acts.