McBob

[77devil]

Will he stay or go? Let the speculation begin.

[coopagrl]

Staying... he can't leave on this note.

[DukeCO2009]

I say 75-25 he stays. The prospect of being a first round pick is enticing, but his stock was higher last year than it is this year and will, in all likelihood, rise again after next season.

[mapei]

Either that, or there's nothing in the last month of the season that makes him think it will be fun to return!

[Dukebacker]

Staying... he can't leave on this note.

Can't leave on a career high in points?

Better believe he can. And if Oden stays. I think Josh is as good as gone.

[RelativeWays]

I say he stays. His draft status went kaput this year as there are easily 30 players who be picked before him. Better to come back as the focal point of the offense (which I think he will) and raise his stock.

[dbowen]

Leaving... He wont stay with this ending

[jjasper0729]

I'd probably say he's gone. He didn't exactly look like he was having a ton of fun this whole season

[SMO]

If he goes there will be trouble...

If he stays will it be double?

[cbarry]

He's gone. Too frustrated playing with this bunch. Just watch his facial expressions during the games when things did not go his way. I think Josh will be a decent/average pro player.

That being said, I WISH he would stay 1 more year.

[RelativeWays]

Only if he rocks the casbah

[YmoBeThere]

Whether he stays or goes, my memory of Josh for this evening will be him switching at the 2:00 minute mark and watching someone else get scored on. I think by the end of the season, he was less interested in playing defense when it really mattered.

[coopagrl]

After listening to the post game, I think he is frustrated with himself enough to stay and get better.

[BluBones]

He's gone.

[77devil]

He's gone.

I hope you are wrong but fear you are right.

[evrdukie]

I don't believe it matters very much either way.

[feldspar]

Josh go bye bye

[grossbus]

"Shav was much better than him ..."

i don't agree.

[_Gary]

Josh go bye bye

Yeah, after justing watching the presser, I don't see anyway he comes back. I say, "So long Josh."

Gary

P.S. This development, of course, necessitates the signing of PP in the worst of ways this off season. That is a must if we are to rebound from this lackluster season. If we somehow lose Josh (a given, IMHO) and then don't land Patterson, we are not going to be in any better position next year than we were this year. We've got to get a dominating, athletic big this off season.

[smackedownz]

i hope hes gone

[imagepro]

if he leaves?

As you guys know, I say what's on my mind. And I say this about Josh--

We had better hope he doesn't leave. He played with heart all year long in my opinion. Was he perfect? Who was. For those who have critiqued him here so often, I ask this question.. Where would this team be WITHOUT him? I hate to imagine. We would not have made the tournament, and maybe have been last in the ACC. Think not? That's ok. But I think SO.

The kid has done EVERYTHING for us. Yes everything. From the 2 to 5 spots. Ballhandler, press beater, rebounder, shot blocker & scorer, and oh yes, Captain.

And he has taken heat from US? Unbelievable...

I say this too- THANK YOU Josh McRoberts. For all you do. I hope you stay, but couldn't blame you if you don't. Thanks man!

[SoCalDukeFan]

Where will he get drafted. Late first round? At all?

Of course, is he getting any better at Duke?

Very disappointed SoCal

[dbowen]

As my favorite White Sox announcer says:
HE GONE!!!

[mapei]

I don't agree either re Shav. Josh has contributed much more to Duke than Shav did, though some of that wasn't Shav's fault.

[Coastal Devil]

He is gone. He didn't do everything for us in Carolina game at Chapel Hill. He should go on his potential. If he sticks around he might get worse ( in the eyes of NBA scouts ). That belmountmd guy is a Carolina guy right??

[Duke4Life]

I think his minutes would drop some next year if he stays...we need some more of Zoubek if he can improve.
Who knows.
I think his stock is at the lowest it has ever been right now. I'd say he is 50/50.

[dukeisawesome]

I think it's just gonna be awkward if Josh stays. He was supposed to be a star and I think it's clear he's not. Even if he's a good starter, it's just not gonna feel right for him so it's probably best for him if he just goes pro.

[j(ay)mike]

...I'll appreciate it if he drops the #2 jersey off on his way out this evening. It's been great fun watching Tony Kukoc in a Duke jersey.

[Troublemaker]

Yeah, after justing watching the presser, I don't see anyway he comes back. I say, "So long Josh."

Gary

P.S. This development, of course, necessitates the signing of PP in the worst of ways this off season. That is a must if we are to rebound from this lackluster season. If we somehow lose Josh (a given, IMHO) and then don't land Patterson, we are not going to be in any better position next year than we were this year. We've got to get a dominating, athletic big this off season.

I disagree. Duke will be better just by having everyone who stays improve by 1 year and with the addition of the three new players. The loss of one player can not negate all of that.

[rsvman]

That belmountmd guy is a Carolina guy right??

Doubtless.

[KandG]

I've always felt Josh would be gone, without taking the temperature of his mood or his level of play throughout this difficult season. I do feel his stock has dropped a bit, but I've always gotten the impression he knew this would be his last year.

I know there have been grumblings about his contribution to team chemistry (or lack thereof), but I thought he did a superb job of sucking it up today and playing as well as he has all year...he even showed concentration on his free throws and did well until the final minutes, when he was gassed. The perimeter defense really let him down today.

[TampaDuke]

I hope he stays, but he's gone for sure. Right now, he's still a late lottery pick and it ain't gonna get any better next year.

[3rd Dukie]

if he leaves?

As you guys know, I say what's on my mind. And I say this about Josh--

We had better hope he doesn't leave. He played with heart all year long in my opinion. Was he perfect? Who was. For those who have critiqued him here so often, I ask this question.. Where would this team be WITHOUT him? I hate to imagine. We would not have made the tournament, and maybe have been last in the ACC. Think not? That's ok. But I think SO.

The kid has done EVERYTHING for us. Yes everything. From the 2 to 5 spots. Ballhandler, press beater, rebounder, shot blocker & scorer, and oh yes, Captain.

And he has taken heat from US? Unbelievable...

I say this too- THANK YOU Josh McRoberts. For all you do. I hope you stay, but couldn't blame you if you don't. Thanks man!


Image,
You are dead on. The problem is that he does so MANY little things that the casual observer cannot appreciate. For Josh to be criticized on these boards is ridiculous. Thanks, Josh! I wish you well.

[grossbus]

"we need some more of Zoubek if he can improve."

z won't really contribute until his jr. year.


i don't know if josh needs to stay, but we need him to stay. he will be better next year because he will have help that isn't there now.

[dukewray]

You better hope he stays......he leaves......NO post presence whatsoever.

[pamtar]

i hope he stays but dos'nt start

[DankeShane]

Let your voice be heard in my poll, created with a similar topic as this thread but with fun poll action.

[johnnydakota]

Image,
You are dead on. The problem is that he does so MANY little things that the casual observer cannot appreciate. For Josh to be criticized on these boards is ridiculous. Thanks, Josh! I wish you well.

Great post; every word you said is exactly right. Thank you and imagepro for having a clue. Some people always need a scapegoat. He does so many positives that aren't in the stat sheet. Duke wouldn't have won 12 games w/o him this year. Thanks Josh; Do what you've gotta do.

[FewFAC]

Everytime I watched Josh touch the ball on offense I thought of that old joke about who was the only person capable of holding Jordan under 20 points.

[Bob Green]

He played a great game today. His versatility will translate to the pro game. He suffered this year from not having a second big to play beside. The question I ask all his critics to contemplate is, "How great a year would Josh have had if he had a second big to play beside?" Using current ACC players, Josh & Virginia's Cain? Or, Josh & Maryland's Ibekwe? Using what could have been, Josh & Brandon Wright? Using past Duke players, Josh & Elton Brand? Or, Josh & Carlos Boozer? Or, to show my age, Josh & Mike Lewis? Or, Josh & Randy Denton? Or, Josh & Mike Gminski? Seriously folks, he needed help inside. He had to play the 4 and the 5 by himself!

I wish Josh the best of luck in the NBA. He will get drafted and he will be a millionaire. Hopefully, he took a class in Personal Finance or Economics.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

[imagepro]

on this thread from me. I would bet BIG money, those of you that want him to leave this year, will say the following next year-- " Man can you imagine how good we'd be IF Josh McRoberts stayed!"

I'll take that bet with ANYONE. I hope that bet isn't available. If he leaves, again as we say here in the south, "It ain't gonna be pretty!"

[wiscodevil]

Great post; every word you said is exactly right. Thank you and imagepro for having a clue. Some people always need a scapegoat. He does so many positives that aren't in the stat sheet. Duke wouldn't have won 12 games w/o him this year. Thanks Josh; Do what you've gotta do.

Agreed. This thread is a good example of how little a lot of people don't know about basketball. Josh has his weak points, but this team is dreadful without him. They would be worse at rebounding, defense, passing and ball handling and no one owuld score inside, except Nelson on occasion.

folks, get a clue.

[3rd Dukie]

on this thread from me. I would bet BIG money, those of you that want him to leave this year, will say the following next year-- " Man can you imagine how good we'd be IF Josh McRoberts stayed!"

I'll take that bet with ANYONE. I hope that bet isn't available. If he leaves, again as we say here in the south, "It ain't gonna be pretty!"

My guess is that this statement is particularly accurate if we get Patterson. As Bob Green said above, PP might be the inside help Josh needs. PP by himself is just another freshman (albeit very talented) in the post. I have seen PP play, and he and JMc would make a great pair. Very complementary for each other. His game is much more power oriented. I seriously doubt that Zoobs will be an ACC quality post guy next season, but I do think he will get there.
Folks, as my Daddy used to say, be careful what you wish for - you might get it.

[Clipsfan]

I think it is sad that so many "fans" start ripping into the players on the team after we lose. It may be that the team didn't play well enough to win as much as we would have all liked, but that doesn't mean that it's composed completely of bad players. Josh had a good game yesterday, as he should have against a small lineup. I'll add my vote to the group of people who say that this team would have been much worse without Josh. I mean, I think that Zoubek is going to be good, but I don't think we wanted out frontline to be composed of freshmen who still need to bulk up. Without Josh, it would have been McClure and Thomas or Zoubek all game long (or until they fouled out). It would have been that, or 4 guards and one undersized center. We've done that before, and we didn't necessarily win as many games as we won this year.

[watzone]

Josh never really unpacked his bags. Duke needs a little more dedication than that.

[Atlanta Duke]

Josh never really unpacked his bags. Duke needs a little more dedication than that.

Unlike other posters here, I only know what I read online and have no direct ties to anyone in or tuned in to the Duke program, so I will ask these 2 questions to knowledgeable posters such as Watzone in particular and other "in the know" posters in general:

1. Based on most everything I have read, it seems as if McBob was packing for the NBA since high school; am I mistaken about that or did he only start pining away for the NBA after he arrived at Duke? (which I suppose raises its own set of questions); and

2. If Duke is going to continue to recruit NBA prospects out of high school rather than now become some sort of uber-mid major and load up for a serious run with a junior and senior dominated team every three or four years, isn't the "dedication" of players who want to get on with their careers and play for pay always going to be an issue in the brave new NCAA world where it appears the best road to the Final Four is recruiting the one and done NBA quality player (e.g. - Durant/Oden)?

Just asking

[dukepsy1963]

Is it possible to find super recruits/players that value education and see college not as merely a stepping stone to playing in the pros? (i.e., one or two years and out).
There is more to life than merely making a million bucks and simply sweating away at a job until your early thirties.... A lot comes after if you're lucky... And a college education helps it seems to me.



__________
Yes, I'm a retired academic.....

Go Duke always!!!!

[OldSchool]

Agreed. This thread is a good example of how little a lot of people don't know about basketball. Josh has his weak points, but this team is dreadful without him. They would be worse at rebounding, defense, passing and ball handling and no one owuld score inside, except Nelson on occasion.

folks, get a clue.

Completely correct. Josh also has the most basketball IQ of anyone on this year's team, Paulus included. This team will be much dumber in a basketball sense without Josh next year.

Josh is only a sophomore, and not an old sophomore like Hansbrough. People always talk about young this Blue Devil team was, but for some reason they never seem to mean McRoberts in particular.

I wonder how much of the negativity toward Josh among Duke fans is a reflection of some of the nasty things sports columnists have written about him. We all know how petty and vindictive sportswriters can be. Did Josh not give them enough interviews or enough good quotes to use?

The decision of whether to stay or go is probably not as easy as some people think. Josh knows he's going to be riding the pines for at least a couple of years in the pros. It must be tempting to stay another year and be the man on a team that will have some additional tools that his skills can take advantage of and potentially really achieve something.

Furthermore, life in the NBA and being constantly on the road can be a lonely experience, especially for a single guy, as Shav has pointed out. Most of the coaches and front offices don't look at their players much as people, except for the stars, but rather have a colder, more businesslike view of the players who populate their roster. And a lot of people look back and recall college as the best years of their lives, even if they didn't fully realize it at the time.

On the other hand, the risk of a devastating injury like the one that Shaun Livingston just sustained is real. I wonder whether Shaun will ever get back to the same level of athletic ability as before. Securing the future financially must be a serious consideration for anyone thinking soberly and responsibly.

[johnnydakota]

Is it possible to find super recruits/players that value education and see college not as merely a stepping stone to playing in the pros? (i.e., one or two years and out).
There is more to life than merely making a million bucks and simply sweating away at a job until your early thirties.... A lot comes after if you're lucky... And a college education helps it seems to me.



__________
Yes, I'm a retired academic.....

Go Duke always!!!!

Well, I am a current "academic", and I have two responses for you. One, how would you know wether or not Josh values education? Has he ever said it was all about the NBA and $? No. His mom is a teacher for crying out loud. Secondly, it does not make him selfish, greedy, or destined to be uneducated if he goes early. College will always be there. The multi-millions may not. You can find just as many people who would rip him for going as you can for not leaving sooner. He has twice passed up guaranteed millions to play for Duke, and his draft status may have suffered for it. I hope he stays, as I value education and the college experience as well. I would not, however, criticize a decision to leave. You would think an "academic", retired or not, would've considered these things.

[FewFAC]

Whatever Josh chooses is his choice. Criticism of Josh, or any player for that matter, wanting to perform at the next level is just spiteful and ludicrous. What is the point of attempting to succeed at an elite collegiate program if not to continue to improve for whatever may lie next?

Criticism of players in this fashion, and the accompanying recruiting philosophy that suggests the program is "above" such recruits only tarnishes the program and the people running it.

[SMO]

To piggy back on your point, how many people on this board have a clue what it's like to be in Josh's position? I also would add that the criticism of Josh's play is absurd. Look at the total picture, ALL stats and what he does for a team and tell me he's underachieved as a sophomore. It's just ridiculous to judge him at this point on either issue.


Whatever Josh chooses is his choice. Criticism of Josh, or any player for that matter, wanting to perform at the next level is just spiteful and ludicrous. What is the point of attempting to succeed at an elite collegiate program if not to continue to improve for whatever may lie next?

Criticism of players in this fashion, and the accompanying recruiting philosophy that suggests the program is "above" such recruits only tarnishes the program and the people running it.

[grossbus]

i like him. i want him to stay. i want him to WANT to stay. he is a special talent and we need his skills. with a little bit better people around him and help inside, he will be a big factor.

how many players in the country averaged the points/rebounds/assists/blocks he did? not many, it is a very short list.

artie, g-man, jeff, johnny d, jay, christian, grant, bobby, shane, elton, j-will, and c-doo are gone. let him be josh.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

If you believe what Feinstein and Watzone have said, it may be that Josh's negative effects on team chemistry more than offset the positive contributions reflected by his statistics.

Basketball is a team game. Josh was supposedly the top player on a team whose achievements this past season were very disappointing.

Maybe the Blue Devils of 2007-08 can achieve more as a team without Josh.

[Madrasdukie]

I am fully aware that it's prudent not to assume based on the article below that he's probably coming back, but for what it's worth, it seems to display the side of Josh that cares about his teammates and the teams future.

McRoberts' quotes after VCU game:

Had he reached a decision on whether to stay for his junior year or apply for the NBA Draft? "No," he said, head down, staring at the floor.

When would he make that decision? "I don't want to talk about it right now," he said. "I'm not concerned about my future right now. I'm concerned about these others guys in the locker room I care about."



"We've got to get better from this experience," McRoberts said. "There's no sense in going backwards.

"We'll be older and more experienced and we just have to get better."


Link to the original article:

http://www.newsobserver.com/736/story/554203.html

[FewFAC]

If you believe what Feinstein and Watzone have said, it may be that Josh's negative effects on team chemistry more than offset the positive contributions reflected by his statistics.

Basketball is a team game. Josh was supposedly the top player on a team whose achievements this past season were very disappointing.

Maybe the Blue Devils of 2007-08 can achieve more as a team without Josh.


I find it mildly amusing that Josh as the supposedly top player on a disappointing team is responsible for the underachieving of a team, which by definition includes the collective efforts of other players whose contributions affect, positively AND negatively their teammates.

And regardless of the inclination of others "insider tidbits" critical of these kids, even if true, responsibility lies with the coaching staff to make certain that chemistry evolves, and to communicate issues to the kids.

To even wish that the team moving forward can achieve more without one of its leading players suggests a fundamental lack of appreciation for such a player's skills, which is probably appropriate given the fundamental misuse of those skills by the coaching staff.

[3rd Dukie]

I am fully aware that it's prudent not to assume based on the article below that he's probably coming back, but for what it's worth, it seems to display the side of Josh that cares about his teammates and the teams future.

McRoberts' quotes after VCU game:

Had he reached a decision on whether to stay for his junior year or apply for the NBA Draft? "No," he said, head down, staring at the floor.

When would he make that decision? "I don't want to talk about it right now," he said. "I'm not concerned about my future right now. I'm concerned about these others guys in the locker room I care about."



"We've got to get better from this experience," McRoberts said. "There's no sense in going backwards.

"We'll be older and more experienced and we just have to get better."


Link to the original article:

http://www.newsobserver.com/736/story/554203.html

Thanks for the post. That article does seem to give at least a little hope.
I, for one, think that whoever said he wants Josh to want to stay, is exactly right. That is what I wish for as well.

[3rd Dukie]

I find it mildly amusing that Josh as the supposedly top player on a disappointing team is responsible for the underachieving of a team, which by definition includes the collective efforts of other players whose contributions affect, positively AND negatively their teammates.

And regardless of the inclination of others "insider tidbits" critical of these kids, even if true, responsibility lies with the coaching staff to make certain that chemistry evolves, and to communicate issues to the kids.

To even wish that the team moving forward can achieve more without one of its leading players suggests a fundamental lack of appreciation for such a player's skills, which is probably appropriate given the fundamental misuse of those skills by the coaching staff.

How were Josh's skills misused by the coaching staff?

[FewFAC]

How were Josh's skills misused by the coaching staff?

The system maximizes what the coaches want, and not necessarily what the players do best. I have yet to see any evidence of any coaching designed to maximize the use and development of Josh's strengths. In fact, I have yet to see any evidence of any coaching on this team designed to do anything other than protect the 1G position.

[Fish80]

i like him. i want him to stay. i want him to WANT to stay. he is a special talent and we need his skills. with a little bit better people around him and help inside, he will be a big factor.

how many players in the country averaged the points/rebounds/assists/blocks he did? not many, it is a very short list.

artie, g-man, jeff, johnny d, jay, christian, grant, bobby, shane, elton, j-will, and c-doo are gone. let him be josh.

Totally agree. And Josh may have been the only player in the country to average 13.0 points, 7.9 rebounds, 3.5 assists, and 2.5 blocks.

[buddy]

Part of being young is not just the physical immaturity. Josh was asked to be a leader as a sophomore, after one year of experience, with only one upper classman on the roster. That is a HUGE responsibility. I have gotten on Josh at times, but because I think he has not played to his potential. But let's face it, without him this year we probably don't even make the NIT. He had pressures unlike those of any other sophomore I can think of in recent history (Greg as well). When was the last time we had a team with no scholarship seniors. Even in the Dawkins, Alarie, Bilas, Henderson sophomore year there were scholarship seniors (albeit mostly non-playing). I think more was asked of these guys, esp. Josh, than has been asked before in similar situations. I don't know about the team chemistry issues. If he goes, I think he will make a mistake from a developmental standpoint, but whoever is left will be our team and we'll go from there.

[3rd Dukie]

The system maximizes what the coaches want, and not necessarily what the players do best. I have yet to see any evidence of any coaching designed to maximize the use and development of Josh's strengths. In fact, I have yet to see any evidence of any coaching on this team designed to do anything other than protect the 1G position.

Well, if you haven't seen it, I guess that's proof it doesn't exist.
I'm just curious about 2 things:

I have no inside information about what transpires in practices and behind the scenes. Do you?

Also, I wonder why the coaches so intensely recruit players whose talents don't fit their desires? Seems like a lot of effort and time to get someone you just want to re-mold. How many years have these coaches been together? Seems like a pretty good while. Hard to imagine you can't think of one instance of their ever having done it right.

You know, sometimes team lose. Have you felt this way for 10-12 years?
How do you think they have been so successful, or do you not agree that they have been?

[FewFAC]

Well, if you haven't seen it, I guess that's proof it doesn't exist.
I'm just curious about 2 things:

I have no inside information about what transpires in practices and behind the scenes. Do you?

Also, I wonder why the coaches so intensely recruit players whose talents don't fit their desires? Seems like a lot of effort and time to get someone you just want to re-mold. How many years have these coaches been together? Seems like a pretty good while. Hard to imagine you can't think of one instance of their ever having done it right.

You know, sometimes team lose. Have you felt this way for 10-12 years?
How do you think they have been so successful, or do you not agree that they have been?

If you want to get argumentative, you've got the wrong person. And while your points are well taken, they miss my point entirely.

I have no issue with having faith in the coaching staff, but they are not gods, and this is not a religion. In fact, the results speak for themselves. If they did do the coaching job and were unable to produce the results they desired, plenty of opportunities existed to make adjustments. Yet at the end of the season, the on-court results were no different than they were early in the season.

And I never said these coaches never got it right. I said this year they pretty clearly refused to do so. And yes, I have not particularly enjoyed this team for the last 12 years, and have enjoyed them less and less with each passing year.

Without question, the successes of the last decade have been enhanced by a variety of factors outside the control of the staff, and this year we saw that a dependence on some of those factors led the program into situations from which it could not extract itself.

Yes teams lose. I can accept that. I can accept getting beaten by a better team, or a more talented team. That was not the case most of this year, nor most of the past few.

[jimsumner]

"And I never said these coaches never got it right. I said this year they pretty clearly refused to do so. And yes, I have not particularly enjoyed this team for the last 12 years, and have enjoyed them less and less with each passing year."

Wow. The coaches "refused" to get it right? That's quite an indictment. You seem to be suggesting that the Duke coaches knew how to produce a better team but declined to make the appropriate moves. Or am I misreading this? What could possibly be the motivation for refusing to take the proper steps? Is Karl Rove secretly on the coaching staff?

And I can't even imagine what has been wrong with the last 12 years. How could any Duke fan or even any non-aligned fan for that matter not enjoy Trajan Langdon, Chris Carrawell, Shane Battier, Jason Williams and so many others? Color me genuinely baffled.

[3rd Dukie]

If you want to get argumentative, you've got the wrong person. And while your points are well taken, they miss my point entirely.

I have no issue with having faith in the coaching staff, but they are not gods, and this is not a religion. In fact, the results speak for themselves. If they did do the coaching job and were unable to produce the results they desired, plenty of opportunities existed to make adjustments. Yet at the end of the season, the on-court results were no different than they were early in the season.

And I never said these coaches never got it right. I said this year they pretty clearly refused to do so. And yes, I have not particularly enjoyed this team for the last 12 years, and have enjoyed them less and less with each passing year.

Without question, the successes of the last decade have been enhanced by a variety of factors outside the control of the staff, and this year we saw that a dependence on some of those factors led the program into situations from which it could not extract itself.

Yes teams lose. I can accept that. I can accept getting beaten by a better team, or a more talented team. That was not the case most of this year, nor most of the past few.


I'm not trying to be argumentative, just precise. There is plenty of arguing without my adding to it unnecessarily.

However, now I am totally confused. I couldn't decide if your comments were about this year's team or the past 12 years, which include a NC and other final 4's. IF I read you correctly, you appear to be saying that the successes were in spite of the coaches and this year's perceived shortcomings were due to the coaches. If, in fact, that is your position, I see no need to continue this discussion.

Thanks.

[FewFAC]

"And I never said these coaches never got it right. I said this year they pretty clearly refused to do so. And yes, I have not particularly enjoyed this team for the last 12 years, and have enjoyed them less and less with each passing year."

Wow. The coaches "refused" to get it right? That's quite an indictment. You seem to be suggesting that the Duke coaches knew how to produce a better team but declined to make the appropriate moves. Or am I misreading this? What could possibly be the motivation for refusing to take the proper steps? Is Karl Rove secretly on the coaching staff?

And I can't even imagine what has been wrong with the last 12 years. How could any Duke fan or even any non-aligned fan for that matter not enjoy Trajan Langdon, Chris Carrawell, Shane Battier, Jason Williams and so many others? Color me genuinely baffled.

I am not going to make any assumptions regarding motivation or whether they knew how to produce a better team, but I have a difficult time believing the coaching staff did not know how to adjust their game plan to their personnel.

In case you cannot tell by my tone, but I wanted a great deal more success out of this team, as I do with every Duke team. And it just has felt for a while that the team has really underperformed from what could realistically be expected. I cannot fault the effort or desire of the kids playing. I can realistically find some fault, however, in coaching, where teams adapt to our strengths, and we simply stick to our guns, for better or worse.

[3rd Dukie]

I am not going to make any assumptions regarding motivation or whether they knew how to produce a better team, but I have a difficult time believing the coaching staff did not know how to adjust their game plan to their personnel.

In case you cannot tell by my tone, but I wanted a great deal more success out of this team, as I do with every Duke team. And it just has felt for a while that the team has really underperformed from what could realistically be expected. I cannot fault the effort or desire of the kids playing. I can realistically find some fault, however, in coaching, where teams adapt to our strengths, and we simply stick to our guns, for better or worse.

Yep. You nailed it.

They spent 4 years keeping the ball away from JJ. No doubt about it.

Stop!

[FewFAC]

Yep. You nailed it.

They spent 4 years keeping the ball away from JJ. No doubt about it.

Stop!

I am not certain what your point is here, but I am fully confident that it is not relevant whatsoever to my argument regarding the 06-07 Duke team from which JJ Redick had graduated.

[3rd Dukie]

I am not certain what your point is here, but I am fully confident that it is not relevant whatsoever to my argument regarding the 06-07 Duke team from which JJ Redick had graduated.

Maybe this will refresh your memory. Then again, maybe not:

"And I never said these coaches never got it right. I said this year they pretty clearly refused to do so. And yes, I have not particularly enjoyed this team for the last 12 years, and have enjoyed them less and less with each passing year."

[FewFAC]

Maybe this will refresh your memory. Then again, maybe not:

"And I never said these coaches never got it right. I said this year they pretty clearly refused to do so. And yes, I have not particularly enjoyed this team for the last 12 years, and have enjoyed them less and less with each passing year."



I don't see what that has to do with your point regarding [the coaches] keeping the ball away from JJ for 4 years.

[dukie8]

Yep. You nailed it.

They spent 4 years keeping the ball away from JJ. No doubt about it.

Stop!

redick won a grand total of zero final 4 games so i am not sure what your point is.

[3rd Dukie]

redick won a grand total of zero final 4 games so i am not sure what your point is.

I have no idea where the final 4 comment came from, but my point was that in rebuttal to what FewFac said, the coaches did, in fact, adapt the system to fit an individual's talents. I am not quite sure what your point is in bringing up the final 4 stats. I'd wager most folks on this site already know what you said.

Few and I were discussing an entirely different point.

Thanks.

[dukie8]

"And I never said these coaches never got it right. I said this year they pretty clearly refused to do so. And yes, I have not particularly enjoyed this team for the last 12 years, and have enjoyed them less and less with each passing year."

Wow. The coaches "refused" to get it right? That's quite an indictment. You seem to be suggesting that the Duke coaches knew how to produce a better team but declined to make the appropriate moves. Or am I misreading this? What could possibly be the motivation for refusing to take the proper steps? Is Karl Rove secretly on the coaching staff?

And I can't even imagine what has been wrong with the last 12 years. How could any Duke fan or even any non-aligned fan for that matter not enjoy Trajan Langdon, Chris Carrawell, Shane Battier, Jason Williams and so many others? Color me genuinely baffled.

i'm not sure what the original poster's point was, but this year was exceptionally frustrating. it felt like the movie groundhog day. EVERYONE knew that there were serious issues but i felt like the coaches made very little adjustments and just rolled the balls out every game with the same game plan. it was paulus, mcroberts, nelson, scheyer plus 1 more starting every single game even though it was clear that this team was unraveling. the plot was the same every game: build up a 10+ point lead in the first half off of good defense and then let the other team back into the game with turnovers, horrific foul shooting, no bench use and terrible shot selection. we held on for some but in the last 12 games we wound up blowing 8 of them. i find it very hard to believe that the best game plan was to continue doing what the team had been doing all year by the time we got to late february. why were all of these guys given carte blanche to continue making horrible decisions and losing games that should have been won? it's not like the bench was barren. marty, thomas and zou all had proven that they were at least possibly productive so it astounded me that k continued to keep on going out with the exact same game plan and to never try something new. i find it very hard to believe that the team would have done much worse than 4-8 over its last 12 had k tried some different game plans with different players.

[FewFAC]

I have no idea where the final 4 comment came from, but my point was that in rebuttal to what FewFac said, the coaches did, in fact, adapt the system to fit an individual's talents. I am not quite sure what your point is in bringing up the final 4 stats. I'd wager most folks on this site already know what you said.

Few and I were discussing an entirely different point.

Thanks.

I don't disagree that the coaches adapted to JJ. And I think there is a really strong case, that I've made elsewhere on DBR, that the coaches have made a concerted effort to adapt this 06-07 team to fit an individual's talents.

Yet I do not think that adapting an entire team solely to fit the talents of a single player was in the best interests of this team (06-07), and I did not see much of an effort on the part of the coaches to adapt the system to maximize the strengths of any other player on this (06-07) team, including the player under discussion in this particular thread.

A quality coaching job this year would have involved putting ALL of the players on this team in a position to succeed, and I did not see that.

[tbyers11]

The system maximizes what the coaches want, and not necessarily what the players do best. I have yet to see any evidence of any coaching designed to maximize the use and development of Josh's strengths. In fact, I have yet to see any evidence of any coaching on this team designed to do anything other than protect the 1G position.

Did you miss the offense being run through Josh in the high post for the vast majority of the early part of the year? Did you miss the coaching staff putting the weave in the middle of the year to try and generate motion? Then, the further tweaking of the weave to have it end after the third exchange with a pick and roll between Greg and Josh.

What particular strengths of Josh's did you want the coaching staff to maximize? Josh has some great skills but in a half court offense your 6'10" player lacking a consistent outside shot is going to have to play in the post at some point.

[FewFAC]

Did you miss the offense being run through Josh in the high post for the vast majority of the early part of the year? Did you miss the coaching staff putting the weave in the middle of the year to try and generate motion? Then, the further tweaking of the weave to have it end after the third exchange with a pick and roll between Greg and Josh.

What particular strengths of Josh's did you want the coaching staff to maximize? Josh has some great skills but in a half court offense your 6'10" player lacking a consistent outside shot is going to have to play in the post at some point.


No, I did not miss the offense through the high post early in the year. Ideally, I think Josh should be involved in running a high-low post, but of course the coaches did not have anyone they trusted for Josh to dump the ball into in the low-post. And I have no problem with others who may disagree at this point, but whatever trust issues the coaches have cut off the potential to maximize a strength of Josh's in this area.

With a low-post receiver, Josh could dump the ball in high-low, rub off a screen for a quick pass from the low-post cutting to the basket very easily. He could fake the cut and come back around to the other side of the floor, effectively using the low-post receiver as a screen for a pass on the other side.

And even if there were significant issues preventing use of a high-low combination, requiring the coaches use Josh in the low-post, I didn't see any evidence of improvement in terms of getting Josh the ball in a position that allowed him to exploit his defensive matchups. Often, when he got the ball in the post, it was on the weak side of the floor with a teammate in the corner, so that defender would sag onto Josh (and this occurred a great deal with Zoubek as well), either preventing the entry pass or creating a deflection and a turnover.

Why didn't the coaches clear out the other players? Even a pick and roll worked pretty effectively, but the tendency was not to stick to what worked well.

[dukie8]

Did you miss the offense being run through Josh in the high post for the vast majority of the early part of the year? Did you miss the coaching staff putting the weave in the middle of the year to try and generate motion? Then, the further tweaking of the weave to have it end after the third exchange with a pick and roll between Greg and Josh.

What particular strengths of Josh's did you want the coaching staff to maximize? Josh has some great skills but in a half court offense your 6'10" player lacking a consistent outside shot is going to have to play in the post at some point.

i completely missed any focus of using mcroberts extensively in the 2nd half of the vcu game despite the fact that we had a SIGNIFICANT advantage with him inside and they had foul trouble. he should have been touching the ball every time down on offense in the second half and he wasn't. multiple friends of mine that did not go to duke were baffled as to why this was completely abandoned. did you watch the georgetown game today? gtown won because nobody on bc could stop hibbert and hibbert was involved in every offense possession the last 10 minutes of the game. he killed them. why were the coaches not drilling this into the players' heads and pulling them after they repeatedly ignored it? i felt the same way in the uva game when uva had to put some stiff on mcroberts for several minutes late in the game who clearly could not guard him. did we bang it in to him every time on offense? of course not -- we had paulus launching off balance 23 footers and they were able to get to the next tv timeout basically with no damage.

[johnnydakota]

No, I did not miss the offense through the high post early in the year. Ideally, I think Josh should be involved in running a high-low post, but of course the coaches did not have anyone they trusted for Josh to dump the ball into in the low-post. And I have no problem with others who may disagree at this point, but whatever trust issues the coaches have cut off the potential to maximize a strength of Josh's in this area.

With a low-post receiver, Josh could dump the ball in high-low, rub off a screen for a quick pass from the low-post cutting to the basket very easily. He could fake the cut and come back around to the other side of the floor, effectively using the low-post receiver as a screen for a pass on the other side.

And even if there were significant issues preventing use of a high-low combination, requiring the coaches use Josh in the low-post, I didn't see any evidence of improvement in terms of getting Josh the ball in a position that allowed him to exploit his defensive matchups. Often, when he got the ball in the post, it was on the weak side of the floor with a teammate in the corner, so that defender would sag onto Josh (and this occurred a great deal with Zoubek as well), either preventing the entry pass or creating a deflection and a turnover.

Why didn't the coaches clear out the other players? Even a pick and roll worked pretty effectively, but the tendency was not to stick to what worked well.

I don't agree with the assessment over the past 12 years at all. I did get tired of people ripping McRoberts for not getting open in the post. Go back and watch some games and I would hope they could see that he was open in good scoring position with regularity. Try watching him and not the ball. The problem was the player with the ball rarely got within 30 feet of the basket into a position to enter a pass. Josh either got pushed out eventually, then got a pass when 15 feet out, or simply had to abandon his position to come help out. There were countless times the perimeter ball handler (Paulus/Scheyer/Nelson) either lost their dribble and needed Josh's help, passed backwards, or tried to drive and turned it over. Imagine Josh with Lawson or Conley as his point? Somehow I think his offense would've suddenly improved. Having said all of this, I more blame youth and lack of athleticism on the perimeter than poor coaching adjustments.

[Indoor66]

The system maximizes what the coaches want, and not necessarily what the players do best. I have yet to see any evidence of any coaching designed to maximize the use and development of Josh's strengths. In fact, I have yet to see any evidence of any coaching on this team designed to do anything other than protect the 1G position.

:confused: Are you sure you are not FewFACTS :p

[tbyers11]

No, I did not miss the offense through the high post early in the year. Ideally, I think Josh should be involved in running a high-low post, but of course the coaches did not have anyone they trusted for Josh to dump the ball into in the low-post. And I have no problem with others who may disagree at this point, but whatever trust issues the coaches have cut off the potential to maximize a strength of Josh's in this area.

With a low-post receiver, Josh could dump the ball in high-low, rub off a screen for a quick pass from the low-post cutting to the basket very easily. He could fake the cut and come back around to the other side of the floor, effectively using the low-post receiver as a screen for a pass on the other side.

And even if there were significant issues preventing use of a high-low combination, requiring the coaches use Josh in the low-post, I didn't see any evidence of improvement in terms of getting Josh the ball in a position that allowed him to exploit his defensive matchups. Often, when he got the ball in the post, it was on the weak side of the floor with a teammate in the corner, so that defender would sag onto Josh (and this occurred a great deal with Zoubek as well), either preventing the entry pass or creating a deflection and a turnover.

Why didn't the coaches clear out the other players? Even a pick and roll worked pretty effectively, but the tendency was not to stick to what worked well.

I agree that Josh in the high post-low post could have maximized many of Josh's talents. Unfortunately, as the competition strengthened our other low post options (Z and Lance) didn't really seem up to par.

I also agree that Duke's getting the ball into the post was frequently not ideal. There were specific instances out of timeouts when plays were effectively run for Josh. But in the flow of play there was often too much congestion in the area. Plays could have been designed better but entering the ball into to the post in the flow of the offense is required and I think alot of the problems were primarily due to the deficiencies of the post players.

1) Not establishing post-up position far enough under the basket. Both Josh and, particularly Z, often caught the ball too far away from the basket. This makes your potential move much more difficult. It also allows help from the perimeter defenders much more easily. Sometimes the post-player didn't receive the pass early enough when he was open, but most of the time I think poor low post position was due to inability to maintain said position due to lack of lower body strength.
2) Taking way too long to make your move. Both Josh and Z often took way too long to decide what move they were going to make. Again allows the help to get there more easily.

Also, as the season wore on and the opposition realized that Josh's low post moves were not particularly effective, they stopped bringing the double team and guarded him one-on-one. This took away much of Josh's ability to pass effectively from the low post.

I think it became a question of how much can you run the offense through strictly through a player whose offensive game, at this point, is much better suited to being a complimentary player than the focus of the offense?

[Demosthenes]

I agree that Josh in the high post-low post could have maximized many of Josh's talents. Unfortunately, as the competition strengthened our other low post options (Z and Lance) didn't really seem up to par.

I also agree that Duke's getting the ball into the post was frequently not ideal. There were specific instances out of timeouts when plays were effectively run for Josh. But in the flow of play there was often too much congestion in the area. Plays could have been designed better but entering the ball into to the post in the flow of the offense is required and I think alot of the problems were primarily due to the deficiencies of the post players.

1) Not establishing post-up position far enough under the basket. Both Josh and, particularly Z, often caught the ball too far away from the basket. This makes your potential move much more difficult. It also allows help from the perimeter defenders much more easily. Sometimes the post-player didn't receive the pass early enough when he was open, but most of the time I think poor low post position was due to inability to maintain said position due to lack of lower body strength.
2) Taking way too long to make your move. Both Josh and Z often took way too long to decide what move they were going to make. Again allows the help to get there more easily.

Also, as the season wore on and the opposition realized that Josh's low post moves were not particularly effective, they stopped bringing the double team and guarded him one-on-one. This took away much of Josh's ability to pass effectively from the low post.

I think it became a question of how much can you run the offense through strictly through a player whose offensive game, at this point, is much better suited to being a complimentary player than the focus of the offense?


Your point 2, I definitely agree with. Josh and Z both took too long to decide what they were going to do. When Josh, particularly, caught and immediately went into a move, he was WAY more effective. As for doubling, people did still double... they just did it differently. Josh's only real effective post move was his jump hook with his right hand. Defenses just waited until he started to dribble, and then the double came from that side to force a pass or counter-move... at that point the help defender would slide back to his man... with Josh's move effectively nutralized.

Point 1, though, was as much or more the guards faults as the bigs (IMHO). Sure, our bigs didn't have enough lower body strength to hold post position... not when the guards were so hesitant and slow delivering the ball to them. Every pass into the post had about 4 or 5 fakes before delivering the ball. Josh/Z/Lance got good post position, they just couldn't hold it for 5 seconds while the guards tried to decide whether or not to get the ball to them (not too many guys could hold position that long). By the time the guards decided and passed, our guys were outside the paint. If the ball was delivered quickly, they wouldn't have been.

[Baracus]

I have very mixed feelings about him leaving. His lack of offence intensity during the course of the season was definetely frustrating. There were a lot of times where he completely removed himself on the offence end of the court. When we needed him in the post it seemed like he was always standing on the perimeter. In my opinion he either lacked the confidence to get it done inside or he didnt want to look bad when things didn't go his way. Don't get me wrong though, we saw some brilliant moments out of him this season. I know that McBob had the talent to put up big numbers as we saw in the last game. I just dont understand why he didn't use that talent and help us more offensively during the course of the year.

Next year will pose a different senario for Josh and the rest of the Devils should he stay. Duke will have more options on offence which will give Josh more looks at the basket as teams will not be able to focus on him as much. The big question is, will he take advantage of those opportunities or pass out of them like he did at times this year. Josh will also be a junior next year and hopefully with another year under his belt comes maturity. He needs to learn when to pass it off and when to shoot. Offensive assertiveness is what we need to see out of him this coming year.

Should he stay or should he go? If he is committed to this program and works in the off season to get better he will be a great asset to have next year. He has great talent and needs to take more shots. This team lacked a go to guy that could score in very critical moments of the game. With Josh being a junior it will be his time to step up, dominate, and silence the critics. On the other hand, if we are going to see the same Josh that we saw this year I say leave for the NBA. If he leaves I do believe that Duke will be a bigger draw for Patrick Patterson. He will be very much needed if Josh leaves. The months coming will be very interesting to watch.

[dw0827]

Let's all try to remember how young these guys are. When I was 18 - 19 years old, I was pretty much a blithering idiot without an ounce of maturity. And most (exactly 98.7%) of my peers were the same. (I'm 58 now and only slightly better.)

So now we expect Josh to be THE LEADER . . . after being a role player in his freshman year. Well, it takes time . . . give him a break. I can't even imagine the amount of pressure these guys are under and we expect perfection. He will develop as an individual and as a leader in his own time under the tutelage of the coaching staff (if he stays). No amount of whining from the fans is going to change that.

Imagine yourself trying to perform with the pressure, on TV with the world watching every little thing you do. It's laughable. Most of us would fold like a cheap deck of cards.

So a little understanding, please. These are people you are talking about, not robots.

[OldDukie]

If Josh leaves-big trouble. Zoo is not ready-if Patterson comes,he will be a freshman and will need a time to grow. Encourage Josh to stay. Good for him and the other players and us!

[ikiru36]

I'd definitely love for Josh to stay, though some people in the relative "know" seem certain he's going so I'm preparing for that.

I just wanted to say that if he goes, there are numerous logical reasons for that decision, even if he remains happy at Duke and believes he'll have a good year next year. I have a feeling, and I'm guessing that this is the advice Josh is correctly receiving, that he is still a lottery pick (so long as not every other top underclassman leaves). My main reason, and I may be overvaluing it, is that he is still a young player, age wise. Josh just turned 20 as compared with a number of other likely draftees who are already 21 (Hansbrough) or even 22 (Noah). I think that a lot of the evaluation of Josh's high "potential" still takes this fact into account, allowing for considerable additional room in terms of physical and emotional maturation.

As good as Josh was this year, I think he could be vastly improved next year whether at Duke or in the NBA, with a non-surgery summer to work on his strength/explosiveness and the few remaining holes in his game. So long as Josh is a lottery pick, it is difficult to argue that he's not making a solid financial decision at this point as he'd have a set salary/guaranteed contract and the sooner he goes, the sooner and younger that he first reaches free agency. He also still can make this valid "youth" argument to teams, whereas next year, if he were not to dominate the college game his stock would begin to validly drop further.

The risk he'd be taking by going now is that, were he to come back and dominate, leading Duke to a Championship, he would be both far more marketable (where the "real" money is at, early in an NBA career) and could be a high lottery pick next year (earning him more money upfront as well as increasing his NBA team's need to invest in his further development).

I'll support (not that he cares) Josh's decision whatever it may be, and they are not two bad choices to have. If he goes, it'll likely be with K's blessing as regards what is in Josh's best interests at this point in time.

Go Lady Devils!!!!!!!!!!Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Baracus]

Let's all try to remember how young these guys are. When I was 18 - 19 years old, I was pretty much a blithering idiot without an ounce of maturity. And most (exactly 98.7%) of my peers were the same. (I'm 58 now and only slightly better.)

So now we expect Josh to be THE LEADER . . . after being a role player in his freshman year. Well, it takes time . . . give him a break. I can't even imagine the amount of pressure these guys are under and we expect perfection. He will develop as an individual and as a leader in his own time under the tutelage of the coaching staff (if he stays). No amount of whining from the fans is going to change that.

Imagine yourself trying to perform with the pressure, on TV with the world watching every little thing you do. It's laughable. Most of us would fold like a cheap deck of cards.

So a little understanding, please. These are people you are talking about, not robots.

I do believe everybody knows that there is always going to be a high level of pressure playing at Duke. I know that all the players felt pressure and will continue to. Nevertheless, it is no excuse for lack of effort on the part of Josh McRoberts on the offensive end. I am not saying that there weren't some good games for him on the offensive end but I believe that the bad out weigh the good. For example, in our first loss to Carolina Josh attempted 5 shots. Tell me that is not a lack of effort on the part of a player that is so talented that he could have gone to the NBA last year.

[dukestheheat]

I say he goes.

It really doesn't matter to the pros what type of year(s) you've had, apparently (I love Shavlik but he didn't do so well here...and look how he's landed in Philly....): he's agile, tall, can dribble, and I think he's got great potential in the L b/c of stuff like that.

my $.02, dth.

[mapei]

I think Duke is better off if he stays, but after the frustrating end to this season I don't blame anyone who wants a fresh start and has the option.

[dw0827]

I do believe everybody knows that there is always going to be a high level of pressure playing at Duke. I know that all the players felt pressure and will continue to. Nevertheless, it is no excuse for lack of effort on the part of Josh McRoberts on the offensive end. I am not saying that there weren't some good games for him on the offensive end but I believe that the bad out weigh the good. For example, in our first loss to Carolina Josh attempted 5 shots. Tell me that is not a lack of effort on the part of a player that is so talented that he could have gone to the NBA last year.

Could it be that Josh isn't as skilled as a low-post guy in a half-court game as you'd like him to be? It seems like he was uncomfortable in there . . . gets the pass into the low post, looks around for an open man, oops, nobody open or cutting, gee, I'd better make a move . . . hours later, HE MAKES A MOVE of some sort. And the masked man is waiting for him.

In a free flowing game, he is very fluid and comfortable. But as a low post guy, his skills need improvement.

I don't remember the specifics of the 1st UNC game, but if he was stuck in the low post, it doesn't necessarily surprise me that he didn't get a lot of shots. He's not a low post guy . . . yet. You attribute it to effort. I can't say you're wrong because I don't know him. But I choose to be more charitable and suggest that he can't be what you want him to be just because you want it. Maybe he just doesn't have the skill yet to make low post moves against someone like TH. So it could be a lack of confidence and not a lack of effort.

[johnnydakota]

Mid-season Coach K called him one of the hardest workers, first in/last to leave, and compared him to a good senior leader. Also, if you don't get Shaq the ball when he's open in good position, he's very average. Josh was open, alot, when nobody came close to getting him the ball. The lack of movement and penetration was crippling.

[mapei]

He also called him a "point guard on stilts." :) I think Josh is ill-suited to be a center, and is more of a natural at the 4 than the 5. The problem with that is that we don't have a 5. I agree with those who say that Zou is a long way off.

[Baracus]

Could it be that Josh isn't as skilled as a low-post guy in a half-court game as you'd like him to be? It seems like he was uncomfortable in there . . . gets the pass into the low post, looks around for an open man, oops, nobody open or cutting, gee, I'd better make a move . . . hours later, HE MAKES A MOVE of some sort. And the masked man is waiting for him.

In a free flowing game, he is very fluid and comfortable. But as a low post guy, his skills need improvement.

I don't remember the specifics of the 1st UNC game, but if he was stuck in the low post, it doesn't necessarily surprise me that he didn't get a lot of shots. He's not a low post guy . . . yet. You attribute it to effort. I can't say you're wrong because I don't know him. But I choose to be more charitable and suggest that he can't be what you want him to be just because you want it. Maybe he just doesn't have the skill yet to make low post moves against someone like TH. So it could be a lack of confidence and not a lack of effort.

Josh doesn't have to be in the low post to score. I also don't think that he looks uncomfortable in the post. Josh has great post moves and is very quick for a big guy. In the Marquette game Josh posted up most of the game. He made great moves in the post but things were not dropping for him. Even though Duke lost the game and Josh did not shoot very well from the floor I was very excited to see him really put a lot of effort on the offensive end. Josh is able to get shots off in the low post. He would have been a lot better in the post had he not been standing out on the perimeter for a majority of the season. He was no good to us out there. One of the problems of this years Duke team was the lack of a low post presence. I know that Josh needs to improvement in the low post. He does take too much time after catching the ball in the low post. Josh needs to learn to make quick moves after catching the ball. This will open up opportunities for him to score.

[dw0827]

Baracus, I think we agree on the state of his low post skills. A work in progress. I'm just not willing to question his heart . . . or his effort . . . for a sub-par effort against UNC.

[johnnydakota]

Josh doesn't have to be in the low post to score. I also don't think that he looks uncomfortable in the post. Josh has great post moves and is very quick for a big guy. In the Marquette game Josh posted up most of the game. He made great moves in the post but things were not dropping for him. Even though Duke lost the game and Josh did not shoot very well from the floor I was very excited to see him really put a lot of effort on the offensive end. Josh is able to get shots off in the low post. He would have been a lot better in the post had he not been standing out on the perimeter for a majority of the season. He was no good to us out there. One of the problems of this years Duke team was the lack of a low post presence. I know that Josh needs to improvement in the low post. He does take too much time after catching the ball in the low post. Josh needs to learn to make quick moves after catching the ball. This will open up opportunities for him to score.

It is a fact the K put him on the perimeter when Paulus was out early. Did you actually see the "flow" of the offense if he didn't touch the ball? It was disappointing because without Josh forcing the issue, nothing ever happened. No one was ever even able to get into a position to get it to him in good spots. I think Duke fans should appreciate the fact he was willing to help out as much as he did. You think Hansbrough would score like that if he was needed to direct the offense, or bring the ball up? They serve it to him on a silver platter the second he's open, and Duke fans don't see the difference they're kidding themselves. I think he worked his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. off and got frustrated at times. I never, ever saw him quit. He played great D and hustled all year long.

[Baracus]

In every game that Josh attempted 10 or more shots he scored 15 or more points. This is what Josh should have been putting up every game. I know and most of you know that Josh was more talented than most of the players that he played against. This kid has skills. He was more than capable of putting up 15 or more points a game. It just seems to me that a player of his caliber not putting up 10 or more shots a game is not being assertive on offense.

[heyman25]

He had a great last game. At I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..com they are 100% certain he is leaving. It is too bad,but his earning power could fall by staying that extra year. I don't know if he will go in the 1st round,it depends on who is in the draft. If he stays Duke lucked out because Zoubek showed about zero confidence and very little skills every time he was on the court. Patterson we have a 33% chance of recruiting. I think we will survive his cut in schools.Playing with Singler and King should cheer Josh up. Paulus and Scheyer and Nelson were subpar in getting him good feeds most of the season.I suppose those 3 can't regress.

I don't think we got much hope having him return,unless those in the know tell him he won't be going 1st round in the NBA Draft.

[OldSchool]

Josh will certainly go in the 1st round, and fairly high (top 10). By the time he is in his mid-20s he will be a very good pro player, barring injury. Maybe not all-star, but very good. But it will take a few years to reach his potential. He has much more potential than Hansbrough, who is an excellent under-the-basket 5 in college but will have to play the 4 in the League. I haven't seen any sign that Hansborough would ever be able to take anyone athletic of similar size off the dribble. However, I can easily see Josh developing the effective face-the-basket moves needed for a good pro power forward. And Josh, because he is younger and had the back problems, hasn't come close to reaching his physical potential, which Hansbrough has for the most part.

However, I don't foresee Josh ever reaching the level of a Larry Bird or a Dirk Nowitzki, being the leader of a championship-caliber NBA team. If he ever gets a ring it will be like Danny Ferry, that is he happens to be on the right team at the right time. If he ever wants to have the feeling of leading his team to something special, like an ACC regular season championship, an ACC tournament title or a Final Four berth, it will have to be at Duke in my opinion. I do think if he stays and with the incoming freshmen and the development of the existing players, he would have a decent shot at one or more of those accomplishments. Though he does have to think about the financial consequences and risk of injury.

[Patrick Yates]

Brook Lopez of Stanford, likely a lottery selection, will forego the upcomming draft according to ESPN.com, despite a likely lottery selection. He would have gone prior to McBob. (Not slamming Josh, I like him, etc., I am merely stating what is a high probability given the production, projections, hype, etc. surrounding the following player assessments)

I think we are for getting one of the key aspects in McBob's decision on the draft. Competition. This projects to be a laden year in the draft, and I think it will be, but it might not necessarily be a deep year.

Much of the projected depth in the draft was predicated on "sure bet" underclassmen entering the Draft. ie Oden, Durant, Wright, who are probably sure bets to go. But what about other "sure bets."

Many, incl. me, believe that the Hoya stars, Green and Hibbert, are gone. Mapei, to whose superior knowledge of the Hoyas I will bow, is less sure.* If they go, both would go ahead of McBob.

At OSU, Oden certainly, Conley probably, and Cook possibly (at least equal status) would go ahead of him.

Fl: All three front line players are rated higher.

UNC: Wright certainly, Lawson, Hansborough, and Ellington (possibly).

KS: Wright, Rush, Arthur certainly, Chalmers, Collins probably-possibly, Kaun possibly.

TX: Durant certainly, Agustin probably.

UW: Hawes Certainly

Mem, GT and others have underclassmen who are at least equal to McBob.

This is not to mention the myriad of unlisted, Foreign, and senior players who are at least equal to McBob. I am not saying this to influence McBob. He has a lot of inate talent and athleticism. Strong predraft workouts could very well move him ahead of many of the "possible" candidates I have listed above, but that is no certainty and is in fact a gamble. But if many of them do not come out, or if all of them do, that could alter McBoB's decision. We need to keep a watch out on who comes out. McBob is unusual at Duke. He is the fisrt underclassman we have had to consider the draft that was not almost universally placed at or near the top (or bottom) of the draft. Only Boozer (clear misjudgement by draftniks) is near this. Shav was derided for his decision and a clear cut non-first rounder. Maggete, Avery, Brand, J-Will, Dun, and Deng were clear lottery selections when they came out. Based on my opinions, McBob could be anywhere from lat in the lottery (hardley anyone comes out, unlikely) to just out side the first round (everyone comes out and many outperform him in workouts, his back raises red flags, also a unlikely secenario).

We keep harping on his legacy, being better next year, etc. If no one comes out, his stock is higher this year and possibly lower next year when this years holdouts would come out. Vice Versa and everything in between. I do not know what Josh's thought or values are going to be. (he might want to go lower to a team that will maximize his high level sidekick abilities, no knock on him, Pippen, McHale, Worthy et al were hall of fame sidekicks). That said, I doubt he will risk even a possible Second Round Selection.

Keep a list of who goes. That may be more important than anything else in his Decision.


*A wild card is the FF or NC. A deep run means almost certain exodus of top players. I know it did not happen last year, but the Gators were virtual unknowns prior to the FF, and the highest profile Gator, Noah, has tons of cash on both sides of his family, likely a Trust Fund, and did not need the riches of the draft. He was an abberation. The other three Gators needed this year to improve their draft status. Do not expect a similiar shunning of the draft this year if a group of well known players makes a deep run, with all the attendant media attention, to likewise shun the draft.

Patrick Yates

[dockfan]

Competition is somewhat of a double-edged sword, however. Unless Josh has his heart set on a high lottery pick (and high lottery dollars), having guys like Oden, Durant, Julian Wright, Horford, Brandan Wright in the draft actually helps Josh drop to a better team, which might be a more attractive situation.

[Patrick Yates]

McBob might want to be a sidekick on a good team. Towards the bottom

Patrick Yates

[tux]

I'm sorry but that is just a ridiculous thing to say. Putting aside Josh's decision, claiming that a frustrating season should entice any Duke player with "an option" of a fresh start, to take it... Wow! Is that how you deal with a little adversity?

Ex-Duke player: Yeah, I used to play for Duke, but then our season got frustrating.

Random person: Frustrating? So, a bunch of guys got booted off the team? Or, you finished last in the conference? Or, you didn't even make the NIT? Or, there's a video of the coach choking you in practice?

Ex-Duke player: No, we finished 22-11 and lost in the first round of the ACC and NCAA tournaments. Like I said, really really frustrating. All I can say is thank God for fresh starts. Now I start for Rutgers.

[Uncle Drew]

1. McRoberts despite having possibly the best all around game of anyone in college basketball never showed the ability to take over games as a scorer. While he was excellent this year at taking it up strong for a dunk (provided he got a running start.) under the basket he got pushed around physically. At 6'11" directly under the basket with the ball it should be a dunk or at the very least draw a foul.

2. McRoberts has excellent dribbling ability which helped us a ton getting the ball past half court this year against trapping defenses. However when trying to dribble penetrate into the lane to the hoop he was often physically pushed away and had to either give the ball up or take an off ballance shot. Despite awesome athletic ability he lacked the physical power (strength) to impose his will.

3. While a decent shot in and around 10 feet (provided he wasn't being guarded by a physical player) outside that distance to the three point line he was far from stellar this season. And if you aren't a threat from 3 point land players can lay off and concentrate on keeping you from driving to the basket.

My points are he has a lot of room for improvement despite being the stat stuffer he is. I think he can improve MUCH more with another year in college as opposed to riding the bench or playing 10- minutes or less a night in the NBA.

I think he has been under pressure as the leader of this team all year. I think he has heard the negative comments from the media, OUR fans and throw in the fact he is dealing with his parents splitting up and it's been a stressfull year for Josh. I feel for the guy bigtime. He comes to Duke as the #1 recruit and after 2 years even with all the potential he hasn't blown anyone away. A couple miles away a masked beast from the same class dominates at a similar position and he gets compared to him. Being a key player at Duke has got to be a tough position for any player, the spotlight burns like a laser sometimes.

I hope he toughs it out FOR HIMSELF and stays (HIT THE WEIGHT ROOM & TAKE THE TEAM WITH YOU!!!!) to improve his deficientcies. Anyone who thinks Duke would be better off without him is a fool, even with Singler and possibly Patterson coming in. At this moment I think it's 50% either way when it comes to staying or going to the NBA. NBADAFT.com has him 16th or 17th. But I see that falling a bit by the time draft day comes. But with all he's had to put up with this year I couldn't blame him for going. Throw in the millions of dollars and the odds get smaller he will stay.

[dahntaysdawg]

1. McRoberts despite having possibly the best all around game of anyone in college basketball never showed the ability to take over games as a scorer. While he was excellent this year at taking it up strong for a dunk (provided he got a running start.) under the basket he got pushed around physically. At 6'11" directly under the basket with the ball it should be a dunk or at the very least draw a foul.

2. McRoberts has excellent dribbling ability which helped us a ton getting the ball past half court this year against trapping defenses. However when trying to dribble penetrate into the lane to the hoop he was often physically pushed away and had to either give the ball up or take an off ballance shot. Despite awesome athletic ability he lacked the physical power (strength) to impose his will.

3. While a decent shot in and around 10 feet (provided he wasn't being guarded by a physical player) outside that distance to the three point line he was far from stellar this season. And if you aren't a threat from 3 point land players can lay off and concentrate on keeping you from driving to the basket.

My points are he has a lot of room for improvement despite being the stat stuffer he is. I think he can improve MUCH more with another year in college as opposed to riding the bench or playing 10- minutes or less a night in the NBA.

I think he has been under pressure as the leader of this team all year. I think he has heard the negative comments from the media, OUR fans and throw in the fact he is dealing with his parents splitting up and it's been a stressfull year for Josh. I feel for the guy bigtime. He comes to Duke as the #1 recruit and after 2 years even with all the potential he hasn't blown anyone away. A couple miles away a masked beast from the same class dominates at a similar position and he gets compared to him. Being a key player at Duke has got to be a tough position for any player, the spotlight burns like a laser sometimes.

I hope he toughs it out FOR HIMSELF and stays (HIT THE WEIGHT ROOM & TAKE THE TEAM WITH YOU!!!!) to improve his deficientcies. Anyone who thinks Duke would be better off without him is a fool, even with Singler and possibly Patterson coming in. At this moment I think it's 50% either way when it comes to staying or going to the NBA. NBADAFT.com has him 16th or 17th. But I see that falling a bit by the time draft day comes. But with all he's had to put up with this year I couldn't blame him for going. Throw in the millions of dollars and the odds get smaller he will stay.


I agree with you, i hope he decides to stick it out and turn this thing around, but i wouldn't blame him either if he decided he'd had enough. Just based on the comments that were made MINUTES after we lost to VCU about him from his own fanbase, basically telling him don't let the door hit you in the I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. on the way out. Either way i hope he can have more fun next year, whether it be here, or in the NBA