Nelson

[dukeisawesome]

Ok, Nelson was healthy all year (I think, nothing serious at least). I think it's time that he spend the whole summer shooting jumpers and working on his game. It seems like what we usually here is he went running on the beach pulling trucks or something. The guy is so chiseled and strong it's not even funny. He has so much potential. The problem for him is no reliable jumpshot so he attacks the basket and gets in trouble that way. He is very close to being a versatile threat that we need if he gets this right over the summer. Plus, he will be a senior and I really want to see him lead a strong Duke team next season.

[grossbus]

players rarely change much from jr. to sr. years. he is what he is. i think fewer minutes might help the team.

[KandG]

I actually thought Markie did as much as anyone to improve his game this year. He had no mid-range jumper at the start of the season, and gradually developed one -- it wasn't reliable, but he was making more the last few games. He really wasn't any sort of playmaker in the half court offense in the past, and over the course of the season, he became more of a threat to pass out of the weave or take it in for a layup. He really started to move beyond taking it in and being stuffed half the time or being stripped.

Unfortunately, he got into foul trouble early today, and he remains a very shaky ballhandler against any sort of pressure. I think he will be a huge part of our resurgence next year.

[DukeCO2009]

Honestly? I've never been a huge fan of his. He's erratic handling the ball and streaky shooting it. Yeah, he's had plenty of good games and made some great moves, but it's his consistency that doesn't sit well with me. A stat-line may read that he dropped 15 on Team X, but it doesn't tell you that he went into hiding after scoring 11 of those in the first 4 minutes. I certainly think he's an asset to the team, but I'd like to see him in a more reduced role next season--think 2001. Just as Nate James stepped aside and let Duhon take his starting position, so should D-Marc step aside and let Nolan Smith have his spot (provided he's earned it).

[mapei]

I think Nelson would be a sixth man - and a good one - on any of Duke's final four teams. He can do great things on the court, but for both teams, unfortunately.

[DukeCO2009]

I think Nelson would be a sixth man - and a good one - on any of Duke's final four teams. He can do great things on the court, but for both teams, unfortunately.

Rationalize that one for me. Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just curious how you think he would've fit onto the '91, '92, or '01 teams. As I alluded to in my previous post, Nate assumed the sixth man role for the latter part of the 2001 campaign. For my money, he's the best sixth man we've ever had. My memory of 1992--and especially 1991--is a little hazy since I was in the 5-6 range, so I'd be interested in how you'd fit D-Marc onto those teams. My tone's a bit terse because a) I'm not a D-Marc fan and b) I'm not a happy camper right now--don't mean to come off as confrontational.

[mapei]

Oh, Nate was phenomenal - I wouldn't disagree at all with that. And he was more reliable than DeMarcus, too, less error-prone. I guess my point was that DN has many of the things you look for in a sixth man - versatility, explosiveness, scoring ability, tight D - but he isn't consistent enough to be a starter on a really good, contending team IMO.

[grossbus]

nate had to reduce his minutes only because of his knees.

[DukeCO2009]

nate had to reduce his minutes only because of his knees.

Fairly certain it was a combination of the knees and, to a larger extent, Duhon's emergence as a force. It definitely wasn't just the knees.

[DukeCO2009]

Oh, Nate was phenomenal - I wouldn't disagree at all with that. And he was more reliable than DeMarcus, too, less error-prone. I guess my point was that DN has many of the things you look for in a sixth man - versatility, explosiveness, scoring ability, tight D - but he isn't consistent enough to be a starter on a really good, contending team IMO.

Point taken, and I think we're in agreement here. I sincerely hope K sets aside senior loyalty for a moment and looks at our roster objectively next season. If DeMarcus isn't one of the five best players--which, barring serious improvement, he won't be--he shouldn't start. It's as simple as that.

[DukeDevilDeb]

Just before the Carolina game in 2001, Boozer broke his foot (you may remember!). Coach talked with Nate, told him that he needed him to come off the bench, inserted Duhon into the starting line up, and the rest is history. I don't think that Nate's knees were an issue, but I certainly could have been wrong. I kept hoping that someone on the team would step up... Greg has done as much as he can... With Greg and Josh being the only players to score in double figures, we just didn't have enough fire power. Markie with only 8...? Come on. Pocius got 9 minutes but scored only 3 points. McClure, who was really high on my list early in the season, has turned out to be an offensive disappointment. I got into the airport when the score was 52-50 Duke, and all I heard McClure do was foul. He has been the glue in some ways, and I really love the kid as a human being, but he needs to step up to have even a 5 point offensive presence. Jon didn't play or shoot well: 2-7 from 2, and 0-3 from 3 point range... that just isn't going to do it with VCU raining threes.

But, bottom line, I think the major problem this team faced all season long was not valuing the ball... turnovers have just killed us. Some of them are forced, of course, but over and over unforced turnovers seemed to be the difference. Greg did great offensively but only had 4 assists and SIX turnovers. DeMarcus contributed another 5.

I'm not sure why, but keeping turnovers low and making free throws are, in my mind, associated with great Duke basketball. Obviously D is a huge issue, but so much of those three parts of the game are mental. When you dribble the ball down the court and right into a double or triple team, it sends the message that your head and heart aren't in the game.

Remember when Blake stole the ball from Jason while Jason was talking with Coach K? A really, really sloppy and unnecessary turnover. Did anyone ever see Jason apathetic with the ball again? He LEARNED from that. This team is making so many of the mistakes that they made early in the year, it is almost as if they are doomed to relive history because they haven't learned from it.

I am not glad the Devils lost tonight, but at some level I am very glad this season is over. Time to view this whole season with the insight of retrospective vision and to turn a team out next year that will play its own brand of Duke basketball.

[Oriole Way]

I think Nelson would be a sixth man - and a good one - on any of Duke's final four teams. He can do great things on the court, but for both teams, unfortunately.

I agree with you here. Unfortunately, I think DeMarcus will get a lot of minutes next year on a deep team, most likely at the expense of someone who could use those minutes to develop (I'm thinking Marty Pocius and Nolan Smith in particular).

DeMarcus was in many ways Duke's most disappointing player for me this year. He led the team in scoring, but getting 15 points on 6-20 shooting and several trunovers is not what you want from your leading scorer.

I cringed so many times this year when Nelson put his head down and drove into the lane, only to turn the ball over or pull up for an ill-advised shot that at the top of the key. I like his defense, but he needs to value the ball more if his minutes next year will be good for the team.

[phaedrus]

when did demarcus go 6 for 20? he was our leading scorer while shooting 48% from the floor - scheyer, meanwhile, shot under 40% and paulus about 45%.

yeah i'm disappointed he didn't become our go-to scorer this year, and his ballhandling killed us last night, but the guy doubled his scoring average and was our best perimeter defender. what else do you want from him?

[CMS2478]

Shooting, Free-Throws, Ball-Handling, and can you really work on COURT VISION :confused:

[91_92_01_10_15]

Has everyone forgotten that the hallmark of excellent Duke teams is defense above all else? Where would we have been without Mr. Nelson's defense this year? Especially in light of Greg's inability to guard the other team's primary ball handler, I believe Demarcus was the one player that was most instrumental in our defensive success. I know we had some defensive problems down the stretch this year, but I believe that the outcome of last night's game would have been completely different had Demarcus's minutes not been limited to 23 b/c of foul trouble. If fact, I thought we were dominant against VCU when we were able to keep our starting lineup in the game.

I, for one, say Demarcus is a bad**s, and I'm grateful he's on our team.

[DukeBlood]

Who on this team didnt make mistakes? At times he put this team on his back. I agree he needs to work on a more consistent shot and a little better decision making(Passing out of a tripple team instead of going up)..

For those of you who think he SHOULD be a 6th man.. Why ? Do you really think Pocius could do a better job? Or Nolan Smith? The only one I think who could be better is Henderson, but I believe it will be at Scheyers spot in the starting lineup.

All of you Pocius fans, I like the kid. I just dont think he could do better then Nelson. I havent seen enough of Nolan to think he is better then Nelson(especially not a SR Nelson).

[DragonWithMatches]

players rarely change much from jr. to sr. years. he is what he is. i think fewer minutes might help the team.

Fewer minutes for Nelson just makes us even weaker on the glass and defensively. Let's not forget Nelson was light years ahead of any other perimeter defender we have. It would be great if he could be more consistent offensively but i think many fans overlook his defensive contributions. That goes for josh as well. His interior D was great this year.

[mcdukie]

Nelson is what he is offensively, defensively he is very good. Should his minutes go down? That question could also be asked about others including Scheyer, who is good against certain teams offensively but is only an average defensive player. That will be determined in practice. I hope somebody really develops into a go to offensive player.

[DragonWithMatches]

I think Henderson and Scheyer will each develop into good all around players on both sides of the floor.

[Karl Beem]

Point taken, and I think we're in agreement here. I sincerely hope K sets aside senior loyalty for a moment and looks at our roster objectively next season. If DeMarcus isn't one of the five best players--which, barring serious improvement, he won't be--he shouldn't start. It's as simple as that.

If Nate attempted to dribble the ball. he made a turn over and was pulled. He eventually got the message and, yes, became reliable. However, there's no way he could have duplicated Nelson's contributions.

[jimsumner]

"players rarely change much from jr. to sr. years. he is what he is."

Actually quite a few Duke players under K have made dramatic improvements as seniors.

Chris Carrawell went from role player to ACC POY.

Dahntay Jones made huge strides as a shooter and leader.

Alaa Abdelnaby went from reserve to first-round NBA draft pick.

Kevin Strickland, Phil Henderson, Brian Davis, Tony Lang, Chris Collins, Roshown McLeod, Daniel Ewing. Others.

If Nelson improves as much next season, he could easily average 17-18 ppg and be an All-ACC caliber player. That's a big if but it's not like it hasn't been done before.

[mapei]

For those of you who think he SHOULD be a 6th man.. Why ? Do you really think Pocius could do a better job? Or Nolan Smith? The only one I think who could be better is Henderson, but I believe it will be at Scheyers spot in the starting lineup.

If you read my post, I said that he would be a 6th man on a really good, contending team. That's all too obviously not what we have. The reason I think he should be a 6th man is because I think we should have better players at his position. That's not to say that we do.

[dkbaseball]

An easy one -- Danny Ferry, 1986.

[greybeard]

So, he was inconsistent offensively. The guy played huge defensively. The beginning of the season, he was like a dervish, as games came to an end.

Does that take something out of you, hurt your offensive game. Ask the guys who used to play for Georgetown, when the old man was running things. He had guys who literally couldn't hit the backboard, some of whom came out with stellar offensive credentials. Nelson put so, so much into the defensive end, and being the third tough rebounder on this team, that I do not think that his offensive proficiency can be accurately measured.

I can say that I marveled at watching him compete, usually against taller and seemingly equally athletic guys only they weren't his equal, not by a long shot.

Now, to be really noteworthy does he have to be able to score the ball more consistently. It depends, doesn't it? And, btw, I'm betting that his offensive game does become more reliable. I think that the added athletes, the maturity of the rest of the guys, a much more healthy Paulus, and perhaps also McRob (I ain't so sure he's going anywhere), these guys might really have some fun. They all paid their dues, every one of those guys. They deserve what they earned, and I believe that they will get it.
DeMarcus should have a terrific senior year!!

[phaedrus]

i just want to point out the irony of dismissing our leading scorer (who had a great shooting percentage, for a guard) as an offensive liability. sure, i wanted him to have the year that was dahntay's senior year, but our expectations don't take away from his accomplishments.

have we already forgotten who came through with game-tying buckets in the dying seconds of our last two games?

[OldSchool]

The best thing Markie could do for his game is work on his 3-pt shooting. If he can become more consistent he will gain more confidence in his shot and become more valuable to the team. He also needs to spend more time fixing his FT shooting.

If McRoberts leaves, it will take a while for Zoubek to become effective in the post and Singler will require some time to adjust to ACC play. All the potential outside shooters, Markie, Jon and Taylor, should try to bring their 3-pt shot up to where Greg raised his. If we can put 3-4 reliable 3-pt shooters in the game and emphasize patient passing and movement without the ball, we can compensate to some extent for our weakness down low next year with 3-pt shooting.

[SMO]

Definitely agree that significant strides can be made from Jr to Sr year. As for Markie, I'd be really excited if he came back the same player with a better free throw % and fewer bad turnovers (dribbling off foot, passing to the knees of a 6'10" teammate). If he does he'll be a very complete player, just not a star.


"players rarely change much from jr. to sr. years. he is what he is."

Actually quite a few Duke players under K have made dramatic improvements as seniors.

Chris Carrawell went from role player to ACC POY.

Dahntay Jones made huge strides as a shooter and leader.

Alaa Abdelnaby went from reserve to first-round NBA draft pick.

Kevin Strickland, Phil Henderson, Brian Davis, Tony Lang, Chris Collins, Roshown McLeod, Daniel Ewing. Others.

If Nelson improves as much next season, he could easily average 17-18 ppg and be an All-ACC caliber player. That's a big if but it's not like it hasn't been done before.

[Clipsfan]

Point taken, and I think we're in agreement here. I sincerely hope K sets aside senior loyalty for a moment and looks at our roster objectively next season. If DeMarcus isn't one of the five best players--which, barring serious improvement, he won't be--he shouldn't start. It's as simple as that.

I think that you should look at the box scores of players Nelson guarded during the season, and see that although he merits some thought as a starter due to his leading the team in scoring and being an excellent rebounder, he is also the best defender on the team. I mean, he shut down people from Dudley to Curry. I think you are so far off base it is ridiculous.

[jimsumner]

If you're looking for sixth men, look no further than David Henderson, c. 1984 and 1985. Came off the bench both seasons but was third in scoring both seasons.

Billy McCaffrey made the 1991 Final Four team coming off the bench.

Corey Maggette averaged 10.6 ppg off the bench in 1999.

Mike Dunleavy as a freshman, 2000.

[Clipsfan]

If you read my post, I said that he would be a 6th man on a really good, contending team. That's all too obviously not what we have. The reason I think he should be a 6th man is because I think we should have better players at his position. That's not to say that we do.

I disagree completely, as I think that he is almost exactly what we need at the position. He struggled shooting the 3 as the season went on, but if he works on that aspect I think he'll be one of the main keys to next season. As I said in another response, he's our best defender. He was our leading scorer, and with a slightly better shooting % from 3 he'll be around that 17-18 points per game. I agree with the poster who said that he may be putting so much energy into the defensive side of the game that he loses his legs for the offensive side. I know that I end up short on my 3s if I've been playing hard. He's obviously in MUCH better shape than I am, but fatigue still affects him (or Paulus yesterday). But he's exactly what people are complaining that we don't have enough of: incredibly athletic wings with long arms who can disrupt another teams offense while providing a significant offensive threat as well.