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gw67
03-07-2008, 04:04 AM
Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion but what have James Mays and Gerald Henderson done to deserve All ACC 1st team honors picked by DBR? It appears that the DBR guys have only watched last week’s games. Henderson is the 23rd leading scorer in the ACC and Mays isn’t even in the top 25. Deron Washington? The fellas must really be influenced by dunking proficiency.

Henderson has improved a bunch in his sophomore year but All ACC accolades should be about performance not potential or dunks. IMO, Singler and Paulus have performed better over the ACC season and Scheyer has performed as well. Like Henderson, Mays is the 4th most worthy player on Clemson.

If you want to put someone from Clemson on the 1st team, either Hammonds or Rivers is more deserving, IMO. McClinton has been a key player for Miami and deserves 1st team consideration.

I am in the midst of a two week business trip to Japan and won’t be able to watch tomorrow’s game. I have a hunch that the Devils will prevail.

gw67

riverside6
03-07-2008, 07:42 AM
I definitely agree, neither Henderson nor Mays even deserve 1st team and I question if they should be on any all-acc team.

David Glenn posted his all-acc ballot (http://www.wral.com/sports/blogpost/2534206/) and I actually agree with him across the board, although I might lean toward Vasquez over Gist for the final 1st team spot.

CDu
03-07-2008, 08:04 AM
Agreed. Washington, Henderson, and Mays shouldn't be anywhere near the first-team All-ACC. Henderson and Mays aren't even among the two best on their team this year: Henderson trails Nelson and Singler, and Mays trails Rivers, Booker, and maybe Hammonds. That's not to say they aren't both great players. But to be in the discussion of first-team All-ACC? And while Washington is the best player on his team, there's a list of guys I'd put ahead of him (and Mays and Henderson).

In no particular order:
Vazquez
Gist
Singler
Rivers
Booker
J.Johnson
Hickson

Also, I thnk the all-punk team needs work. Allen and McClinton are not near the category of McFarland (WFU) and Gonzalez (NCSU) in terms of "punkness."

Ignatius07
03-07-2008, 08:25 AM
Also, I thnk the all-punk team needs work. Allen and McClinton are not near the category of McFarland (WFU) and Gonzalez (NCSU) in terms of "punkness."

I think Allen definitely deserves it, and probably McFarland, but Gonzalez? Maybe I haven't seen him play enough, but if you're basing it just on that elbow to Paulus, I think it's undeserved.

CDu
03-07-2008, 08:30 AM
I think Allen definitely deserves it, and probably McFarland, but Gonzalez? Maybe I haven't seen him play enough, but if you're basing it just on that elbow to Paulus, I think it's undeserved.

Not basing it on the elbow to Paulus at all. In fact, I have little problem with the elbow incident. My opinion on Gonzalez is based on a repeated pattern of chippiness/gamesmanship with him in several games. His overexaggerated attempt at a flop after a play when Henderson was walking by (during the Cameron game) is an example. He's had several other borderline incidents. But like McFarland, it tends to be under-the-radar type of stuff.

I think Allen is getting a bad rap for his one overhyped incident. He barely bumped the ref (though pretty clearly intentionally), and that's pretty much the only thing he's done. Those other guys on the list are repeatedly involved in questionable incidents.

blueprofessor
03-07-2008, 10:58 AM
I definitely agree, neither Henderson nor Mays even deserve 1st team and I question if they should be on any all-acc team.

David Glenn posted his all-acc ballot (http://www.wral.com/sports/blogpost/2534206/) and I actually agree with him across the board, although I might lean toward Vasquez over Gist for the final 1st team spot.
************************************************** **********
:cool: Glenn's midseason (Feb. 9) all-ACC awards had Lawson on 1st team,Paulus on 2nd team, and Singler on 3rd team (with Nelson on 1st team).K was COY and Hickson was ROY.Now, it's Haith or Purnell as COY ,Nelson as DPOY, and Singler as ROY.Apparently,Hans has not traveled,as he is still Glenn's POY.
:) Now,in his opinion, there is a dogfight for the last player(barring a tie vote) on the 2nd team and the members of the 3rd team, from among 13 players,including Paulus.
:D I think Paulus deserves to be in one of those spots.
Best to all.Beat UNC! Remember 1998 at Cameron in that incredible heat.Bring on the heat!!!!:)

DukeDevil
03-07-2008, 12:33 PM
I like this whole list, agree with most of it. What's "all Nascar"?

DukeUsul
03-07-2008, 12:39 PM
based on speed, judging from the list

Bob Green
03-07-2008, 03:17 PM
I am in the midst of a two week business trip to Japan and won’t be able to watch tomorrow’s game. I have a hunch that the Devils will prevail.

gw67

I sent you my cell phone number via PM. If you are in the Tokyo area, give me a call.

sagegrouse
03-07-2008, 05:24 PM
Not basing it on the elbow to Paulus at all. In fact, I have little problem with the elbow incident. My opinion on Gonzalez is based on a repeated pattern of chippiness/gamesmanship with him in several games. His overexaggerated attempt at a flop after a play when Henderson was walking by (during the Cameron game) is an example. He's had several other borderline incidents. But like McFarland, it tends to be under-the-radar type of stuff.



I would not put Javi Gonzalez on an All-Punk team.

To me, he seems like an undersized freshman trying to survive as a starting point guard in the ACC. He has to be chippy, and he has to play a little dirty, or others will mop up the floor with him. (No excuse for the elbow though -- he could have been kicked out of the game in the first minute.)

sagegrouse

CDu
03-07-2008, 06:26 PM
I would not put Javi Gonzalez on an All-Punk team.

To me, he seems like an undersized freshman trying to survive as a starting point guard in the ACC. He has to be chippy, and he has to play a little dirty, or others will mop up the floor with him. (No excuse for the elbow though -- he could have been kicked out of the game in the first minute.)

sagegrouse

I disagree on both points. I don't think you have to play chippy/dirty to avoid being destroyed in the ACC. I think you have to play WELL. Being chippy/dirty doesn't prevent you from playing well. And regardless, if you have to play chippy/dirty to stay afloat (and do play chippy/dirty), that pretty much makes you a punk.

I disagree about the elbow being inexcusable, too, for reasons discussed in another thread. It's a part of the game. Bad timing for Paulus, normal means of clearing space by Gonzalez.

sagegrouse
03-07-2008, 10:58 PM
I disagree on both points. I don't think you have to play chippy/dirty to avoid being destroyed in the ACC. I think you have to play WELL. Being chippy/dirty doesn't prevent you from playing well. And regardless, if you have to play chippy/dirty to stay afloat (and do play chippy/dirty), that pretty much makes you a punk.

I disagree about the elbow being inexcusable, too, for reasons discussed in another thread. It's a part of the game. Bad timing for Paulus, normal means of clearing space by Gonzalez.

And, CDu, if you can't play "WELL," then maybe you do what you have to do to survive. Which is to be "chippy" -- i.e., have attitude -- and look for an edge slightly outside the rules. At this stage of his career, Javi is too inexperienced and weak to play WELL against tough opposition (although he had a career high against Duke).

And, of course, you criticized me for not condemning his dirty play. However, when I did condemn his elbow as being no less than stupid because he could have been kicked out of the game, you found that objectionable because throwing an elbow is a "normal means of clearing space." So, being "chippy" is bad but throwing an elbow is good?

Seriously, are you trying to be disagreeable, or am I just misreading your post?

sagegrouse

CDu
03-08-2008, 01:37 AM
And, CDu, if you can't play "WELL," then maybe you do what you have to do to survive. Which is to be "chippy" -- i.e., have attitude -- and look for an edge slightly outside the rules. At this stage of his career, Javi is too inexperienced and weak to play WELL against tough opposition (although he had a career high against Duke).

And, of course, you criticized me for not condemning his dirty play. However, when I did condemn his elbow as being no less than stupid because he could have been kicked out of the game, you found that objectionable because throwing an elbow is a "normal means of clearing space." So, being "chippy" is bad but throwing an elbow is good?

Seriously, are you trying to be disagreeable, or am I just misreading your post?

sagegrouse


Firstly, I didn't criticize you. I disagreed with your opinion. There's a big difference. I don't think I said anything critical about you - I just disagree with what you said.

With regard to the rest of your post, I don't consider clearing space to be dirty. That's a generally accepted play in basketball. I also don't agree with the idea that "if you can't compete athletically, do what you have to do" philosophy, if "doing what you have to do" means being chippy/dirty.

So, no, I'm not being disagreeable just to be disagreeable. In my opinion, the two points we've debated are entirely separate, and I happen to disagree with you on both points.