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acciconoclast
03-06-2008, 12:01 PM
http://universityrelations.unc.edu/alert/carson/
http://www.newsobserver.com/front/story/985826.html

SeattleIrish
03-06-2008, 12:01 PM
(Upon what board does this belong? Feel free to move)

Really awful.

http://www.wchl1360.com/details.html?id=6051

s.i.

Dukerati
03-06-2008, 12:04 PM
Well this puts basketball in perspective... I hope her family finds some peace.

TillyGalore
03-06-2008, 12:06 PM
Un-believable. My thoughts and prayers are with her friends and family.

MulletMan
03-06-2008, 12:07 PM
(Upon what board does this belong? Feel free to move)

Really awful.

http://www.wchl1360.com/details.html?id=6051

s.i.

Dear God! How terrible. They are looking for her car... could she have been randomly car jacked in Chapel Hill? That seems so odd.

Thoughts and prayers to her family.

DukieInKansas
03-06-2008, 12:10 PM
How incredibly sad. My condolences to her family and friends and to the entire Carolina community.

SharkD
03-06-2008, 12:14 PM
The N&O is reporting that it's a suspected carjacking in an upscale area of (already upscale) Chapel Hill.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/story/985826.html

It's awful.

ugadevil
03-06-2008, 12:22 PM
This is a terrible story. It turns out that the she was from Athens, GA but she went to UNC on a scholarship. She sounds like a remarkable young woman.

Channing
03-06-2008, 12:22 PM
This is horrible. Whats more, this is the second time something like this has happened in a week. A girl at Auburn was murdered, her car found up in flames a few miles away just the other day.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/stories/2008/03/05/auburn_0306_web1.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

ne1btunc
03-06-2008, 12:27 PM
maybe the crazies will show a nice gesture or something during the game to remember this young lady?

dukelifer
03-06-2008, 12:27 PM
That is really sad news. Condolences to her family and friends and the whole UNC campus. It does make the game this weekend seem very insignificant.

GopherBlue
03-06-2008, 12:33 PM
I cannot even begin to comprehend - what a horribly tragic and senseless loss. My thoughts and prayers go out to her family, friends, and the entire Carolina community.

At this time of year, it really puts things into perspective. Would it be out of line to suggest some form of tribute at the game on Sat - perhaps a moment of silence?

Indoor66
03-06-2008, 12:37 PM
My condolences to her family and to the UNC community. I lived about a block from that intersection 20 years ago; it is a quiet, delightful neighborhood of older homes. Not an area to expect such a crime.

EasternDB
03-06-2008, 12:42 PM
Our prayers go out to her family...

adam
03-06-2008, 12:49 PM
maybe the crazies will show a nice gesture or something during the game to remember this young lady?

This is truly horrible. I agree that the crazies should do something for her. Maybe the Blue Devil could write something on his headband. Just my thoughts.

dukelifer
03-06-2008, 12:51 PM
This is truly horrible. I agree that the crazies should do something for her. Maybe the Blue Devil could write something on his headband. Just my thoughts.
Maybe a moment of silence would be appropriate.

miramar
03-06-2008, 01:04 PM
This is just awful.

billybreen
03-06-2008, 01:04 PM
Wow, that is just horrible. With the tragic death of Jason Ray less than a year ago, it's been a really tough stretch. Condolences.

ugadevil
03-06-2008, 01:09 PM
This is horrible. Whats more, this is the second time something like this has happened in a week. A girl at Auburn was murdered, her car found up in flames a few miles away just the other day.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/stories/2008/03/05/auburn_0306_web1.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

I heard about that story as well. Two truly horrible incidents. The one at Auburn looks like the girl's car was set on fire in an attempt to hide evidence. Here's to hoping that all involved in both murders are brought to justice.

bluepenguin
03-06-2008, 01:25 PM
What's even more bizarre is that another GA coed, attending Auburn was also murdered. http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=112445

Udaman
03-06-2008, 01:30 PM
Tuesday night a woman was killed at Auburn University. It certainly could be coincidental. One site said investigators were trying to see if they might be related.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/06/auburn.student.ap/index.html?eref=rss_crime

Regardless, both are just awful tragedies.

BD80
03-06-2008, 01:33 PM
Maybe a moment of silence would be appropriate.

Definitely

Condolences to her family and to the UNC community.

Mike Corey
03-06-2008, 01:49 PM
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r22/Coreyo34/Eve.jpg

Eve Marie Carson was elected UNC's student body president a little over a year ago.

Most fervent thoughts and prayers go out to Ms. Carson's friends and family.

captmojo
03-06-2008, 01:51 PM
Sad. It truly transcends basketball.

DukePA
03-06-2008, 01:58 PM
I am truly sorry to hear this news. My deepest sympathy to her family, friends, and the entire UNC community.

fan345678
03-06-2008, 02:17 PM
Maybe a moment of silence would be appropriate.


Sould "Go to hell, Carolina, go to hell" be toned down, too?

Or is that such a colloquialism that nobody will take it offensively?

I mean...I don't think anybody actually means it, but it's still kinda soon.

devil84
03-06-2008, 02:28 PM
Sould "Go to hell, Carolina, go to hell" be toned down, too?

Or is that such a colloquialism that nobody will take it offensively?

I mean...I don't think anybody actually means it, but it's still kinda soon.

How about, "Rest in Heaven, Eve Carson, Rest in Heaven" in addition to/instead of GTHC, GTH?

WTVD just televised the remembrance at UNC for her. She was a young lady who was so involved at Carolina and had everything going for her.

Just an incredible tragedy. My condolences to the Carson family, and the entire UNC family.

Biscuit King
03-06-2008, 02:30 PM
This is simply unbelievable. I think it would say a lot about the rivalry and the bond between the schools if Duke fans could show some kind of support.

I don't know if that is a moment of silence, some sort of display at the game or on ESPN gameday, a monetary contribution taken up by the members of K-ville for a memorial fund or something else. But it would be very, very classy and it would be a way of acknowledging the true nature of the relationship between the two schools.

wumhenry
03-06-2008, 02:36 PM
Sould "Go to hell, Carolina, go to hell" be toned down, too?
I, for one, sure hope not to hear that chant during this Saturday's game.
I hope the Crazies will avoid *any* sort of gratuitous razzing (e.g., "airball! airball!") on this occasion.

ChiDevil
03-06-2008, 02:37 PM
Make us proud, Crazies. Show everyone, and SI, how truly classy you are on Saturday.

What a terrible loss. Deepest sympathies to the Carson family and to the UNC community.

Bluedog
03-06-2008, 02:40 PM
I, for one, sure hope not to hear that chant [GTHC! GTH!] during this Saturday's game.
I hope the Crazies will avoid *any* sort of gratuitous razzing (e.g., "airball! airball!") on this occasion.

I'm fairly certain that's not going to happen. But I think a moment of silence and other cheers to remember her would be appropriate. Terrible tragedy...seems like every person who goes to UNC is friends with her. Extremely well-liked individual and this senseless crime is almost unfathomable.

blublood
03-06-2008, 03:26 PM
If anyone's going to hell, it's the person who did this, especially if it turns out that the two murders are related. Certainly our thoughts are with the families and friends of both of these lovely young ladies.

4decadedukie
03-06-2008, 03:27 PM
maybe the crazies will show a nice gesture or something during the game to remember this young lady?

I hope they will, too. That would be the appropriate thing to do. Eve Carson seems like a superb young lady. My sincere condolences are extended to her family, friends, and the UNC community.

pfrduke
03-06-2008, 03:30 PM
I, for one, sure hope not to hear that chant during this Saturday's game.
I hope the Crazies will avoid *any* sort of gratuitous razzing (e.g., "airball! airball!") on this occasion.

With all due respect, I think this is a little over the top. The senseless murder of this young woman and the basketball game on Saturday are two completely unrelated incidents, and the former does not mean that an "airball!" chant suddenly becomes inappropriate at the latter.

I agree wholeheartedly with the posters above who suggest that the school and the fans should do something in tribute - whether it be a moment of silence, a cheer in her honor, a fundraiser, or some combination of the above. But there's no reason that the Crazies can't simply be their ordinary selves for the rest of the game.

BluBones
03-06-2008, 03:36 PM
I offer my condolences and prayers to her family and friends. I offer my sympathy to all of our UNC visitors this week.

RelativeWays
03-06-2008, 03:40 PM
This may sound mean, but crap like this makes me long for public executions. What a sensless death. I really feel for her family. I had the unfortunate experience of seeing first hand three families devestated when they lost their college age children at an apartment fire off of the UNCG campus, a fire that was set as a prank. The Carson family is going to need a lot of strength.

cspan37421
03-06-2008, 03:46 PM
I agree with pfrduke. It would be classy to honor her with a moment of silence, but turning Cameron into Wimbledon - on - the - Eno is not going to bring her back. Why should we abandon our role as the 6th man because of this tragedy? Should we not still support our team to the utmost? Obviously we don't want to do anything classless, but once the tribute has been given, the game is on, and we should still try and do what we can to root our team to victory.

I understand how some might feel a "rest in heaven" chant is a nice tribute, and maybe no one will buy this opinion coming from a skeptic like me, but I think it lacks the solemnity that seems more appropriate for a tribute. Cheers are by nature boisterous and I don't think a cheer for her seems like the right thing. JMO.

Devil in the Blue Dress
03-06-2008, 03:49 PM
What a terrible tragedy! The administrators at Carolina have done a great job of responding to the sad and tragic situation. Check out the university web site www.unc.edu to see the fine example these college administrators set.

Namtilal
03-06-2008, 03:50 PM
A moment of silence is appropriate, out of respect to her importance to the student body at UNC. But in no way does this unrelated tragedy lessen the fervor of both sides to win, and our students should do their part to help the team.

Chitowndevil
03-06-2008, 03:51 PM
My thoughts and prayers go out to this young woman's family and friends. I sincerely hope something is done at Cameron Saturday to express sympathy from the entire Duke community (I'd actually be shocked if they didn't do something).

The Cameron Crazies will find a way to express the sympathy we are all feeling, and then cheer just as hard as always for Duke vs. UNC. That's why they are the best fans in sports, and why those of us on these boards who had the chance will always be proud to be a part of that tradition.

Mike Corey
03-06-2008, 03:53 PM
Duke will in fact be having a moment of silence at the men's basketball game Saturday night, and also at the men's baseball game over the weekend that also pits Duke against UNC.

The Cameron Crazies are in the process of determining the best way in which to honor Ms. Carson, as well.

mehmattski
03-06-2008, 03:54 PM
With all due respect, I think this is a little over the top. The senseless murder of this young woman and the basketball game on Saturday are two completely unrelated incidents, and the former does not mean that an "airball!" chant suddenly becomes inappropriate at the latter.

I agree wholeheartedly with the posters above who suggest that the school and the fans should do something in tribute - whether it be a moment of silence, a cheer in her honor, a fundraiser, or some combination of the above. But there's no reason that the Crazies can't simply be their ordinary selves for the rest of the game.

As someone going to the game, I hope that there is a tribute by Duke.

As fans, we should do an "Eve Marie Car-Son (clap clap, clap-clap-clap)" chant early and loudly. Signs paying tribute are in order. Let's show the utmost class and respect for human life on Saturday.

As for basketball.... I expect the same normal fervor from the Duke fans on Saturday night. Maybe a little less on the attack, and a lot more focus on support of our own team.

Spret42
03-06-2008, 03:56 PM
Have a moment of silence. Then go ahead and support Duke and Duke's basketball team by being positive towards Duke. Do it loudly and with gusto. Let UNC play their game.

To do so is the ultimate sign of sportsmanship and respect.

Lavabe
03-06-2008, 04:00 PM
Thoughts go out to the family and the community. I trust the Crazies will tribute her somehow, and with the class we have come to expect. Agreed 1000% with cspan's comments.

Although I appreciate the comments about the "airball!" chant, I personally believe that Cameron CANNOT become such a solemn place for the game itself. The players will be ready; the band will be ready; the fans will be as well.

And let's make it a special night for Markie.

Lavabe

RelativeWays
03-06-2008, 04:00 PM
I wonder if it was gang related. We've had a couple of instances where random people were attacked in broad daylight as part of gang initiations. Seems excessively brutal though.

Lotus000
03-06-2008, 04:13 PM
I wonder if it was gang related. We've had a couple of instances where random people were attacked in broad daylight as part of gang initiations. Seems excessively brutal though.

It seems excessively brutal on a number of accounts...the victim in question, the location, the type of murder it was.

You really HATE to question 'what in the world happened' if you're not in on the investigation, but as somebody who has prosecuted crimes in the past, I can tell you that this really, really doesn't seem like a 'random' crime in the least.

I really hope that they (the police, prosecutors, investigators) have some sort of lead as to who did this.

Channing
03-06-2008, 04:18 PM
Maybe its just me - but I think a chant of her name, or the rest in heaven Anne Carson rest in heaven just sounds Hokie.

This senseless murder is really a serious tragedy. A chant seems contrived. Personally, I think a moment of silence and perhaps a donation in her honor from the residents of K-Ville seems much more appropriate.

dukelifer
03-06-2008, 04:21 PM
It seems excessively brutal on a number of accounts...the victim in question, the location, the type of murder it was.

You really HATE to question 'what in the world happened' if you're not in on the investigation, but as somebody who has prosecuted crimes in the past, I can tell you that this really, really doesn't seem like a 'random' crime in the least.

I really hope that they (the police, prosecutors, investigators) have some sort of lead as to who did this.

I agree. This is the second coed to be killed in a few days- the other was at Auburn. In both cases a car was involved. Very odd coincidence.

acciconoclast
03-06-2008, 04:25 PM
http://www.moreheadscholars.org/FLASH/content.html

http://www.dailytarheel.com/

mehmattski
03-06-2008, 04:27 PM
Maybe its just me - but I think a chant of her name, or the rest in heaven Anne Carson rest in heaven just sounds Hokie.

This senseless murder is really a serious tragedy. A chant seems contrived. Personally, I think a moment of silence and perhaps a donation in her honor from the residents of K-Ville seems much more appropriate.

Personally, I would feel honored if the Cameron Crazies chanted my name.

Jim3k
03-06-2008, 04:37 PM
This is just awful and I grieve for her, her family and her university.

Hopefully, Duke can do or say something appropriate to the situation Saturday

Rivalries are one thing. Tragedies are another.

billybreen
03-06-2008, 04:45 PM
http://www.moreheadscholars.org/FLASH/content.html

http://www.dailytarheel.com/

Such a person to lose. Just horrible.

bdh21
03-06-2008, 04:46 PM
In Cameron let's be respectful: a moment of silence, maybe even after the tip, and then move on. There is no need for opposing fans to dwell on the situation, even if in a positive manor.

The one cheer that is absolutely inappropriate is 9F. That's just insensitive (and not in the PC-wishywashy way).

watzone
03-06-2008, 05:12 PM
They found her car.
http://media.www.dailytarheel.com/media/storage/paper885/news/2008/03/06/University/Carsons.Car.Reported.Abandoned.In.Chapel.Hill-3257113.shtml

wumhenry
03-06-2008, 05:23 PM
I agree with those who say that a moment of silence would be better than chanting the victim's name, which IMO would be tacky.

And I still think it would be a good thing if, this one time, the Crazies confine themselves to cheering on the Duke team and abstain from gratuitously dissing anyone.

For that matter, it would suit me just fine if I never hear "airball! airball!" from the Crazies again. The charm of novelty has long since worn off with that chant, and it's downright churlish.

hc5duke
03-06-2008, 05:30 PM
Maybe its just me - but I think a chant of her name, or the rest in heaven Anne Carson rest in heaven just sounds Hokie.

This senseless murder is really a serious tragedy. A chant seems contrived. Personally, I think a moment of silence and perhaps a donation in her honor from the residents of K-Ville seems much more appropriate.

I agree with this post. A moment of silence should be appropriate, but a cheer in her honor seems inappropriate at best, and disrespectful at worst.

SoCalDukeFan
03-06-2008, 05:31 PM
go out to her family and friends.
This is really sad.

SoCal

hc5duke
03-06-2008, 05:32 PM
I wonder if it was gang related. We've had a couple of instances where random people were attacked in broad daylight as part of gang initiations. Seems excessively brutal though.

Not that I doubt what you're saying, but snopes has debunked many of these "gang initiation" stories.

DukePA
03-06-2008, 05:37 PM
I agree with this post. A moment of silence should be appropriate, but a cheer in her honor seems inappropriate at best, and disrespectful at worst.

I agree. I am concerned that a chant, regardless of how well-intentioned, could be misconstrued as disrepectful. I would hate for us to inadvertently cause her family more pain. A moment of silence will be most appropriate.

kramerbr
03-06-2008, 05:58 PM
Almost a year ago the student who was UNC's mascot was also killed. This trully another tragedy and my thoughts and prayers go out to her family and her UNC family.

godukerocks
03-06-2008, 06:06 PM
Senseless murder,
My prayers for her and her family.

cspan37421
03-06-2008, 06:10 PM
Let me add to the voices suggesting that a chant that deals with the incident could easily be taken the wrong way, esp. by those who reflexively think the worst about us to begin with. Many chants aren't clearly audible on TV so context and content could easily be muddled, and it would not be surprising at all if we were accused, however unjustly, of ribbing UNC about this tragedy. Thus I think only something unmistakably respectful, like a moment of silence and perhaps the announcement of a charitable donation in her honor, are advisable, as far as anything the Crazies to in regard to acknowledging the incident. And then on to the game. I don't see a problem with 9F, but I can see how others would.

It would be nice to for the Crazies to be noted on such a night for both their humanity, their class, and then, once it the ball is tipped, for their cleverness. Personally I don't think it is necessary to solely chant for Duke and avoid ribbing UNC for something legit, unrelated to the tragedy. I think it is part of our advantage, getting in their minds. Well, that's the idea anyway . Cue "Speedo guy."

dukepsy1963
03-06-2008, 06:13 PM
My deepest sympathy to the family and friends of this wonderful young lady.

RelativeWays
03-06-2008, 06:13 PM
Not that I doubt what you're saying, but snopes has debunked many of these "gang initiation" stories.

It wasn't one of those "DON'T FLICK YOUR HEADLIGHTS AT A CAR WITHOUT HEADLIGHTS ON" type thing. We had two instances at the same gas station where a couple of random people were attacked by youths with bottles or sticks or something. They weren't even robbed. After they kicked the crap out of the people, they got in a car and drove off, one victim was hospitalized. Latta may have heard of it as well. As bad as those events were, its a far cry from being shot multiple times and left in the road. Since they found the car, maybe it was a crime of passion or stalking poorly disguised as a robbery. Because of this and and the NIU and VT stuff, I bet they throw the book at that goof at App.

Devil07
03-06-2008, 06:15 PM
I agree. I am concerned that a chant, regardless of how well-intentioned, could be misconstrued as disrepectful. I would hate for us to inadvertently cause her family more pain. A moment of silence will be most appropriate.

I agree with you and everyone else who has expressed a similar opinion. I frankly would find a chant to be tacky, and inappropriate for the situation. A tragedy of this nature calls for something more toned down. I'm very glad to hear that there will be an official moment of silence, and I think an unofficial crazies moment of silence would also be tasteful. Regardless I think a more restrained acknowledgment would be most appropriate.

ChiDevil
03-06-2008, 06:17 PM
Couldn't agree more with hc5Duke about the chant. While I would be honored to have Cameron chant my name, I think it is VERY likely that a chant would be construed as mean spirited (however genuine the sentiment actually was). Someone who didn't understand would say that it was to distract the players or was the height of insensitivity and tackiness.

A moment of silence, a donation from K-ville would be lovely. A sign saying "Our thoughts and prayers are with the Carson Family and the UNC Community" would be great.

I have no doubt that the Crazies will do the right thing.

But cheer exuberantly and positively for the Blue Devils. No true Tar Heel fan would want anything less.

Uncle Drew
03-06-2008, 06:50 PM
My wife was shocked to hear the news just like I was. She is a native of Georgia and I have been to Athens many many times. Both Chapel Hill and Athens are true college towns that rarely see this type of violent senseless crime. I actually lived in Chapel Hill for over a year in my younger days and I can honestly say there were many times out at 3 to 4AM or later I never felt unsafe. I know exactly where the police discovered her body, I've been by there many, many times. I guess in this crazy world we shouldn't be shocked when this kind of thing happens anywhere to anyone. But my thoughts go out to her family in their loss.

MulletMan
03-06-2008, 06:54 PM
I have no doubt that the Crazies will do the right thing.




Its in the works.

DukeDevilDeb
03-06-2008, 07:07 PM
I agree with pfrduke. It would be classy to honor her with a moment of silence, but turning Cameron into Wimbledon - on - the - Eno is not going to bring her back. Why should we abandon our role as the 6th man because of this tragedy? Should we not still support our team to the utmost? Obviously we don't want to do anything classless, but once the tribute has been given, the game is on, and we should still try and do what we can to root our team to victory.

I understand how some might feel a "rest in heaven" chant is a nice tribute, and maybe no one will buy this opinion coming from a skeptic like me, but I think it lacks the solemnity that seems more appropriate for a tribute. Cheers are by nature boisterous and I don't think a cheer for her seems like the right thing. JMO.

I agree, cspan37421, that 'Rest in Heaven' would be really inappropriate. The Crazies needs to be allowed to be the Crazies. Obviously, any cheers or mention of this would be absolutely unacceptable. But we don't know what her or her family's beliefs are and whether 'Rest in heaven' would be seen as negative or positive.

I hope somebody who knows him better than I can get to Joe Alleva. I think he's the guy who needs to orchestrate a formal moment of silence, perhaps right before the Star Spangled Banner. Frankly, I don't see how the Crazies could do this and communicate what it is for.

There is no excuse for this, none at all. I'm furious at the person who did this, at the legislators who have voted against handgun laws, and to everyone who says, "Guns don't kill people; people kill people." Had this crazy person not had a gun, Eve might well be alive today!

DukeDevilDeb
03-06-2008, 07:10 PM
As someone going to the game, I hope that there is a tribute by Duke.

As fans, we should do an "Eve Marie Car-Son (clap clap, clap-clap-clap)" chant early and loudly. Signs paying tribute are in order. Let's show the utmost class and respect for human life on Saturday.

As for basketball.... I expect the same normal fervor from the Duke fans on Saturday night. Maybe a little less on the attack, and a lot more focus on support of our own team.

Cheering her name as you suggest would likely infuriate the Tarheels. They might think we were mocking her or trying to upset them.

Can't you guys see that putting this tragedy within the context of the evening is OK, but putting it among cheers and signs and whatever other ideas people have would cheapen it AND us.

Imagine how you would feel if you were her parents and the hated Dukies were chanting your dead daughter's name? No one is EVER going to see that as a tribute or as appropriate. I'm delighted to read that the Crazies are thinking of a way to memorialize her, but please let's not do anything like these suggestions.

ugadevil
03-06-2008, 07:41 PM
My wife was shocked to hear the news just like I was. She is a native of Georgia and I have been to Athens many many times. Both Chapel Hill and Athens are true college towns that rarely see this type of violent senseless crime. I actually lived in Chapel Hill for over a year in my younger days and I can honestly say there were many times out at 3 to 4AM or later I never felt unsafe. I know exactly where the police discovered her body, I've been by there many, many times. I guess in this crazy world we shouldn't be shocked when this kind of thing happens anywhere to anyone. But my thoughts go out to her family in their loss.

Sadly, Athens is not really considered to be a very safe town. The university (probably to a serious fault) does its best to stay separated from the local community. Just this week there was a shooting near campus, and stories like this are not all that uncommon.
http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/030608/news_2008030600478.shtml

Ironically, Eve Carson was first in her class at Clarke Central, which is in the heart of Athens and considered to be a very racially divided school.

holdonvoltaire
03-06-2008, 07:57 PM
I am sure that Krzyzewski, Broadhead, and the student leadership will get together tomorrow to determine a plan for Saturday's game. I bet they will encourage fans to cheer for the Devils but not against the Heels. Certainly "Go To Hell, Carolina" should be taken off the table for this game. These are smart kids; they know basketball takes a backseat to this tragedy and they'll do the right thing.

godukerocks
03-06-2008, 08:12 PM
I am sure that Krzyzewski, Broadhead, and the student leadership will get together tomorrow to determine a plan for Saturday's game. I bet they will encourage fans to cheer for the Devils but not against the Heels. Certainly "Go To Hell, Carolina" should be taken off the table for this game. These are smart kids; they know basketball takes a backseat to this tragedy and they'll do the right thing.

Welcome to the boards holdon.

Whatever Duke does, it'll be classy and respectful. This Saturday is going to be a special day.

dw0827
03-06-2008, 08:24 PM
I hope there's no chant . . . no youthful exuberance . . . no stupidity . . . no classlessness.

Think of her family, her friends, her university . . .

This is a tragedy. Respect it as such.

In comparison, basketball is nothing. A game. Meaningless . .

And I know that the Duke University family will show show the proper respect this Saturday . . .

Make me proud, Duke.

hc5duke
03-06-2008, 08:33 PM
I bet they will encourage fans to cheer for the Devils but not against the Heels. Certainly "Go To Hell, Carolina" should be taken off the table for this game. These are smart kids; they know basketball takes a backseat to this tragedy and they'll do the right thing.

I don't agree with this, but my guess about half the crazies would go for it (as in, chant GTHC) and the other half would choose not to. If they choose not to, that's fine, but I don't agree that not chanting GHTC (ugh, double negative) is "the right thing to do" because of this event, as sad as it may be.

CameronBornAndBred
03-06-2008, 08:50 PM
Condolences to the family and her friends. I'm positive the crazies will do what's right, I will look forward to reading first hand reports of the game after. I'm sure it will be one of the strangest atmospheres for a Carolina game.

rthomas
03-06-2008, 08:52 PM
How about a before the game chant:
We're so sor-ry, clap clap clapclapclap
We're so sor-ry, clap clap clapclapclap
We're so sor-ry, clap clap clapclapclap.

Channing
03-06-2008, 08:57 PM
How about a before the game chant:
We're so sor-ry, clap clap clapclapclap
We're so sor-ry, clap clap clapclapclap
We're so sor-ry, clap clap clapclapclap.

I dont know, maybe others see it differently, but I dont think that getting the clapping or the cadence cheering going is an appropriate response. This is a young lady who tragically had her life taken from her. While some may see it as celebrating her life, I tend to think of the cheering and the clapping as reserved for happy moments - bringing a former player back, making a recruit feel good about himself. The solemnity of this is best handled with silence.

IMO this is a situation where one can easily get caught in the trap of overdoing things. The simpler and more reserved the better.

cspan37421
03-06-2008, 08:57 PM
rthomas, if you're serious, it's going to come across as mocking.

If you're not serious, it's not funny - IMO.

Your sig line is funny though. [btw, to be pedantic, I'd guess the line in the John Denver song about "blowing like a breeze" refers to life (which is old there), not the mountains.]

rthomas
03-06-2008, 09:15 PM
rthomas, if you're serious, it's going to come across as mocking.

If you're not serious, it's not funny - IMO.

Your sig line is funny though. [btw, to be pedantic, I'd guess the line in the John Denver song about "blowing like a breeze" refers to life (which is old there), not the mountains.]

Not trying to be funny. You might be right.

billybreen
03-06-2008, 09:17 PM
Everyone should wear black armbands. That's all it would take to show respect, and it can't be misconstrued.

Uncle Drew
03-06-2008, 09:18 PM
Sadly, Athens is not really considered to be a very safe town. The university (probably to a serious fault) does its best to stay separated from the local community. Just this week there was a shooting near campus, and stories like this are not all that uncommon.
http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/030608/news_2008030600478.shtml

Ironically, Eve Carson was first in her class at Clarke Central, which is in the heart of Athens and considered to be a very racially divided school.

The last time I hung around Athens for long periods of time was probably about the same period I hung around Chapel Hill for long periods of time. So most every town that could have been considered remotely safe back then probably isn't today. Hey for that matter in THIS crazy world with people trying to kill one another over a piece of land that doesn't even belong to them none of us are safe in our own homes much the less out in public.


I ask caution on this thread about expressing views about things like "gun control" and making THIS incident about politics. It's a tragedy all around there is no need to hash out ones feelings on the right to bear arms.

Channing
03-06-2008, 09:26 PM
Everyone should wear black armbands. That's all it would take to show respect, and it can't be misconstrued.

or perhaps those little ribbons that are handed out for various causes. That would seem quite appropriate - good suggestion BB.

weezie
03-06-2008, 09:34 PM
Now, the ribbons are actually a GREAT idea. Dukies all hate the baby blue but this would be a genuine show of respect for the loss of such a fine young woman. Could they be handed out to fans before the game, like the towels all season? I'll bet K would approve.

Bluedog
03-06-2008, 09:35 PM
I again want to extend my condolences to the entire UNC family. They have lost a great individual who clearly touched many people.

I don't want to take anything away from the support given to this amazing young woman on this site and others, but I am curious as to why there is such an outpouring of support in this instance when there was no thread on DBR or headline article that I can recall when a Duke student was murdered about a month ago. (at least I can't find any from a quick search) Was Abhijit Mahato not an important individual because he was from India? I don't get it....Carolina fans didn't pay condolences or give any tribute to him during the Feb 6 game as far as I recall even though the murder took place 2 weeks before the game...Is it because she was student body president and he wasn't? I don't want this to turn into a public policy debate - I'm just honestly curious as to why the situations are so different that the responses are so varied. And that UNC paid no respects whatsover to Mahato, while people are suggesting that GTHC cheers should no be used.

But again, I want to express my sincerest sympathies to both victims. Both are senseless murders that are almost incomprehensible.

RelativeWays
03-06-2008, 09:48 PM
Bluedog wrote: "I again want to extend my condolences to the entire UNC family. They have lost a great individual who clearly touched many people.

I don't want to take anything away from the support given to this amazing young woman on this site and others, but I am curious as to why there is such an outpouring of support in this instance when there was no thread on DBR or headline article that I can recall when a Duke student was murdered about a month ago. (at least I can't find any from a quick search) Was Abhijit Mahato not an important individual because he was from India? I don't get it....Carolina fans didn't pay condolences or give any tribute to him during the Feb 6 game as far as I recall even though the murder took place 2 weeks before the game...Is it because she was student body president and he wasn't? I don't want this to turn into a public policy debate - I'm just honestly curious as to why the situations are so different that the responses are so varied. And that UNC paid no respects whatsover to Mahato, while people are suggesting that GTHC cheers should no be used.

But again, I want to express my sincerest sympathies to both victims. Both are senseless murders that are almost incomprehensible."

Honestly....

1. She's white
2. She's female
3. She's student body president
4. Its Chapel Hill

If I remember correctly, Mahato was shot during an apartment robbery. Its a terrible thing, but people can rationalize and see the motive better than a girl shot multiple times and dumped in the middle of the road, nobody knows why that happened. Mahato's death got very little media coverage, I heard about it on NPR after they caught the shooter, this one has captured the interest of the state. Call it Twin Peaks syndrome.

EDIT: My bet is they honor both Mahato and Carson before the game.

BuschDevil
03-06-2008, 09:49 PM
My thoughts & prayers are with Eve's family & friends. May she forever rest in peace.

MulletMan
03-06-2008, 09:51 PM
I again want to extend my condolences to the entire UNC family. They have lost a great individual who clearly touched many people.

I don't want to take anything away from the support given to this amazing young woman on this site and others, but I am curious as to why there is such an outpouring of support in this instance when there was no thread on DBR or headline article that I can recall when a Duke student was murdered about a month ago. (at least I can't find any from a quick search) Was Abhijit Mahato not an important individual because he was from India? I don't get it....Carolina fans didn't pay condolences or give any tribute to him during the Feb 6 game as far as I recall even though the murder took place 2 weeks before the game...Is it because she was student body president and he wasn't? I don't want this to turn into a public policy debate - I'm just honestly curious as to why the situations are so different that the responses are so varied. And that UNC paid no respects whatsover to Mahato, while people are suggesting that GTHC cheers should no be used.

But again, I want to express my sincerest sympathies to both victims. Both are senseless murders that are almost incomprehensible.

I think that there are a couple of issues at play here. One is the immediateness of the whole thing. The closeness of it to the game, etc. The other issue is that this is Duke's chance to reach out to the Carolina family and Eve's family and say "we're sorry for your loss". We don't know how people from UNC may or may not have reached out to the families of the Duke students who've passed on this year, but that doesn't mean that the Crazies should not share thier condolences.

camcraz25
03-06-2008, 09:58 PM
My vote is no to the cheers of her name or anything in cadence form. I was actually going to suggest little carolina blue ribbons or something, but see it's already been suggested. I think those, a moment of silence, and a couple of signs would be the most appropriate. NO cheers please, I really don't think they would be perceived appropriately.

billybreen
03-06-2008, 09:59 PM
or perhaps those little ribbons that are handed out for various causes. That would seem quite appropriate - good suggestion BB.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Armband is what came to mind, but i just meant a black ribbon tied around the upper arm.

billybreen
03-06-2008, 10:00 PM
My vote is no to the cheers of her name or anything in cadence form. I was actually going to suggest little carolina blue ribbons or something, but see it's already been suggested. I think those, a moment of silence, and a couple of signs would be the most appropriate. NO cheers please, I really don't think they would be perceived appropriately.

I think black ribbons out of mourning would work. Carolina blue would just be weird (:)) and might not be as obvious.

wumhenry
03-06-2008, 10:01 PM
Everyone should wear black armbands. That's all it would take to show respect, and it can't be misconstrued.
It's not easy to explain why, but I think a moment of silence (for both murder victims) would be better.

billybreen
03-06-2008, 10:02 PM
It's not easy to explain why, but I think a moment of silence (for both murder victims) would be better.

I don't think they are mutually exclusive, but the moment of silence will be less obvious to the millions who will be watching at home. Arm bands would honor the victims by keeping them in the minds of viewers (without being distracting).

Jim3k
03-06-2008, 10:11 PM
Even the team could get into it. They are already wearing the black bar for the VT tragedy. Maybe they could wear a second black bar with light blue trim under it. Or, perhaps, the light blue curled ribbon under it.

Truth
03-06-2008, 10:13 PM
Even the team could get into it. They are already wearing the black bar for the VT tragedy. Maybe they could wear a second black bar with light blue trim under it. Or, perhaps, the light blue curled ribbon under it.

I agree that this would be most appropriate. Classy signage and a moment of silence would also be a terrific show of support, but absolutely under no condition should the customary GTHCGTH chant be abandoned.

buzz
03-06-2008, 10:30 PM
I agree that this would be most appropriate. Classy signage and a moment of silence would also be a terrific show of support, but absolutely under no condition should the customary GTHCGTH chant be abandoned.

I have to strongly disagree with you on this one. There are some conditions where the GTHC cheer has the potential to offend, and this happens to be one of them. I can only imagine some gung-ho journalist trying to make a name by taking Duke fans to task. Much better to exercise discretion. No tribute cheers either. A moment of silence along with some armbands/ribbons/etc is the way to go.

This link was shared earlier in the thread. I'd encourage folks to really check it out. Miss Carson, in her own words, recounts her experience in Ecuador. A very sad loss.

http://www.moreheadscholars.org/FLASH/content.html

Channing
03-06-2008, 10:32 PM
Ill be honest - I had not heard that a duke student was murdered on campus. This story was front page news on AJC.com which is where I saw it.

The moment of silence should certainly cover both victims, and perhaps also the young lady at Auburn - another college student brutally murdered for no apparent rhyme or reason.

Was there no moment of silence at a game already for the Duke student murdered?

MulletMan
03-06-2008, 10:48 PM
Was there no moment of silence at a game already for the Duke student murdered?

No. And there was not a moment of silence for the undergraduate who collapsed and died while playing basketball in the Wilson gym either. The difference here is that Duke students and faculty had a way to grieve and support the families of both Aalok Modi and Abhijit Mahato. Here I think that Duke students are trying to find a way to support Carolina at this difficult time, and the Duke-UNC game can be their platform to make a sincere show of support.

mehmattski
03-06-2008, 11:23 PM
Cheering her name as you suggest would likely infuriate the Tarheels. They might think we were mocking her or trying to upset them.

Can't you guys see that putting this tragedy within the context of the evening is OK, but putting it among cheers and signs and whatever other ideas people have would cheapen it AND us.

Imagine how you would feel if you were her parents and the hated Dukies were chanting your dead daughter's name? No one is EVER going to see that as a tribute or as appropriate. I'm delighted to read that the Crazies are thinking of a way to memorialize her, but please let's not do anything like these suggestions.


All right, no chant, that seems like the consensus. I guess I'm thinking too much like a Dukie... if it were a Duke student and the game was in UNC I think I may well interpret it the way you suggest the Carolina fans might interpret a chant.

What are some ideas for a tasteful sign? I'm going to have a few hours in line on Saturday to create something, so let me know what people think it should say.

Lotus000
03-06-2008, 11:42 PM
Honestly....

1. She's white
2. She's female
3. She's student body president
4. Its Chapel Hill

If I remember correctly, Mahato was shot during an apartment robbery. Its a terrible thing, but people can rationalize and see the motive better than a girl shot multiple times and dumped in the middle of the road, nobody knows why that happened. Mahato's death got very little media coverage, I heard about it on NPR after they caught the shooter, this one has captured the interest of the state. Call it Twin Peaks syndrome.

EDIT: My bet is they honor both Mahato and Carson before the game.

Why honor one just because you honor the other? Why not treat it as JUST A BASKETBALL GAME. If you want to support UNC and her family and friends (which is absolutely warranted and acceptable) go to one of the vigils held on the UNC campus. I really simply don't see what this has to do with a (in relative terms) meaningless basketball game. Do you think her parents are going to be watching the game wondering what a bunch of teenage kids are going to do or say regarding their daughter. Um, no, sorry, but the people in Cameron that night are not going to be that important to that girl's parents, other family, and friends.

So, say a quick prayer for them, head to Chapel Hill for a vigil, etc. But don't belittle the situation by bringing it up at......a basetball game. Game. GAME. It's just...a....game.

Kimist
03-07-2008, 12:03 AM
One really nice gesture would be to have a dean or similar from both Duke and UNC together make a simple statement of remembrance, followed by an appropriate moment of silence. A completely silent Cameron Indoor Stadium prior to a UNC game would be unique.

I do NOT like anything resembling a chant. Regardless of the intent, it can come across very tacky, and would fuel the fires of those Duke haters out there!!

Someone could also perhaps come up (quickly!) with a nice combination Duke blue/"non-Duke" blue ribbon that fans of either school could wear in remembrance. Perhaps even the coaches/players could participate?

And then there's, showing my age, the really simple concept of a moment of prayer in her memory lead by an appropriate member of the clergy. For years every major Wake Forest sports event began with a prayer, until someone decided such an action was "inappropriate."

Lastly, what a horrible loss for her family and friends, for her university, and for just about everyone!

k

devil in chapel hill
03-07-2008, 12:09 AM
OK, please let's show class -that is what separates us from so many other institutions - no chants, no claps - that's tacky. Armbands and signs are a good idea. A moment of silence as well. Maybe cut down on the jeering of the heels and focus on cheering on the Devils.

jlear
03-07-2008, 05:53 AM
Bluedog wrote: "
I don't want to take anything away from the support given to this amazing young woman on this site and others, but I am curious as to why there is such an outpouring of support in this instance when there was no thread on DBR or headline article that I can recall when a Duke student was murdered about a month ago. (at least I can't find any from a quick search) Was Abhijit Mahato not an important individual because he was from India? I don't get it....Carolina fans didn't pay condolences or give any tribute to him during the Feb 6 game as far as I recall even though the murder took place 2 weeks before the game...Is it because she was student body president and he wasn't? I don't want this to turn into a public policy debate - I'm just honestly curious as to why the situations are so different that the responses are so varied. And that UNC paid no respects whatsover to Mahato, while people are suggesting that GTHC cheers should no be used.

But again, I want to express my sincerest sympathies to both victims. Both are senseless murders that are almost incomprehensible."

Honestly....

1. She's white
2. She's female
3. She's student body president
4. Its Chapel Hill



In my mind, the additional media coverage is due to the fact the she was the student body president in UNC's most prestigious scholars' program and a women. She was very high profile so her murder is very high profile. As for why a small tribute will be paid at the game, this happened a couple of days before our showdown not a couple of weeks.

Here is the Chronicle article about Abhijit Mahato's murder. (http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/01/18/News/Crime.Wave.Sweeps.Durham-3161014.shtml)

devilsadvocate85
03-07-2008, 08:07 AM
OK, please let's show class -that is what separates us from so many other institutions - no chants, no claps - that's tacky. Armbands and signs are a good idea. A moment of silence as well. Maybe cut down on the jeering of the heels and focus on cheering on the Devils.

If possible, I think it would be awesome for the Crazies to wear Duke blue t-shirts with Eve's picture on them. Probably hard to accomplish, but that would be an incredible tribute.

pratt '04
03-07-2008, 08:09 AM
Letter to the editor from Duke's DSG President and others:

Chronicle (http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2008/03/07/Letters/Celebrate.Unc.Duke.Connections-3258869.shtml)

Bluedog
03-07-2008, 08:36 AM
As for why a small tribute will be paid at the game, this happened a couple of days before our showdown not a couple of weeks.


Ok, but there was a game vs. Clemson the day after Mahato's murder in Cameron and there was no moment of silence....so that argument doesn't work.

blazindw
03-07-2008, 08:49 AM
I do NOT like anything resembling a chant. Regardless of the intent, it can come across very tacky, and would fuel the fires of those Duke haters out there!!

I agree. No chants. Just a moment of silence would be appropriate.

BuschDevil
03-07-2008, 08:57 AM
I agree... No chants, cheers, or signs regarding this tragedy.

A moment of silence & some little black &/or light blue ribbons are the right things to do.

Cheer for Duke.

MulletMan
03-07-2008, 10:03 AM
Ok, but there was a game vs. Clemson the day after Mahato's murder in Cameron and there was no moment of silence....so that argument doesn't work.

Your point is well taken, however, I will point out that Mahato's identity was not released until just before the game on Saturday... most people in Cameron didn't even know that he had been confirmed as a student. The next home game was 12 days later.

Devil07
03-07-2008, 10:26 AM
If possible, I think it would be awesome for the Crazies to wear Duke blue t-shirts with Eve's picture on them. Probably hard to accomplish, but that would be an incredible tribute.

Sorry, but I completely disagree with you on this one. I think this too would fall under the umbrella of over-the-top, inappropriate tributes. While I think that she should no doubt be memorialized (a ribbon in addition to a moment of silence would be nice), this is still just a basketball game and not a memorial. Duke students should honor and acknowledge her, but I certainly hope no one does this. Let's keep it tasteful, respectful, and appropriate for a basketball game.

OldPhiKap
03-07-2008, 10:30 AM
A moment of silence and a black ribbon would be appropriate. Some of the other suggestions -- while well intentioned -- would distract from both the game and the point of the remembrance.

$.02

unexpected
03-07-2008, 10:49 AM
MulletMan, I agree with what you're saying (the Crazies couldn't do anything), but it wouldn't have been so hard for the PA announcer to say, "and now can we take a moment of silence for Mahato".

Those away games after the Mahato murder- did any one of those teams (VTech, Maryland) do a tribute?

It's interesting to see the different PD responses. When Mahato died, Durham PD wouldn't even give a response, saying that "it was the weekend and our office is open 9 - 5, M-F". Here we're getting detailed press conferences, active updates, specific reports on the crime, and everything.

Also, what about Aalok Modi? He died on the basketball court, and there was no tribute to him in Cameron. I know I will get a lot of responses saying, "well he wasn't brutally murdered," but his death was sudden and unexpected as well. I find death in itself a tragedy.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a tribute, but Duke should be equally capable of remembering its own as well.

It seems to me that the difference is "white attractive female" vs. "minority male". If it is so be it, but we should own up to that, and not try to explain it away.

OldPhiKap
03-07-2008, 10:54 AM
It seems to me that the difference is "white attractive female" vs. "minority male". If it is so be it, but we should own up to that, and not try to explain it away.


Puh-lease. You cannot be serious. This story has broken nationally. It is appropriate to show that we are not the bunch of heartless pr!cks that many feel we are.

dukechem
03-07-2008, 10:59 AM
If those who are making decisions are listening, I, too, vote for a moment of silence, perhaps prefaced by a few words from the Duke student government president, and the wearing of Carolina blue (not black) ribbons.

I would not want any chants or large signs in the crowd; these could easily be taken the wrong way no matter what the intent.

jlear
03-07-2008, 11:05 AM
A moment of silence and a black ribbon would be appropriate. Some of the other suggestions -- while well intentioned -- would distract from both the game and the point of the remembrance.

$.02

I understand this is what is planned.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
03-07-2008, 11:06 AM
Puh-lease. You cannot be serious. This story has broken nationally. It is appropriate to show that we are not the bunch of heartless pr!cks that many feel we are.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the "white attractive female" vs. "minority male" factor is a huge part of the story breaking nationally. "Cute, blond white girl slain" sells papers, TV time, etc. "Brown person dead" does not. It's really nauseating, but it's true.

All that said, I agree completely with both the high-minded human and cynical PR reasons for a tribute.

freshmanjs
03-07-2008, 11:07 AM
Puh-lease. You cannot be serious. This story has broken nationally. It is appropriate to show that we are not the bunch of heartless pr!cks that many feel we are.

I don't think anyone is arguing against doing something in this case. It is, however, fair to question why nothing was done in the other cases.

dukechem
03-07-2008, 11:22 AM
It is, however, fair to question why nothing was done in the other cases.

This is not hard to understand. This young woman was the president of the student body at UNC, the elected leader of 30,000 (or whatever the correct number is) students, and she was a member of their board of trustees. She was apparently known by many people. She had a resume at her young age that many will not achieve in a lifetime. The reaction would have been the same for anyone in her position regardless of race, gender, etc.

The untimely or violent death of anyone, especially a young person, is always a tragedy to his or her family and friends, but it's never going to get the attention that the death of a public figure and leader garners.

DukeDevilDeb
03-07-2008, 11:36 AM
There is official word that there WILL be a moment of silence just before the tip tomorrow night. I think this is a powerful way of showing our support for Eve's family, friends and the entire Tarheel community.

But I'm sitting and shaking my head over some of the suggestions on this board...

Can you imagine what Duke haters would say if we wore Duke Blue Shirts with her picture? They would get off on the color, saying that we were taunting.

And how can anyone suggest that the Crazies and the rest of the spectators wear Carolina blue to a basketball game? I totally agree that the importance of basketball pales in comparison with Eve's murder, but please....~! We want to be respectful, but we don't want to go overboard.

I'm waiting for someone to suggest that we deliberately lose the game in her memory! :)

unexpected
03-07-2008, 11:38 AM
None of her accomplishments affect Duke though. (FWIW, she was president of her CLASS not the student body - not to diminish anything). I don't see how anything on her resume directly impacts Duke - which is why I find so troubling that we're so willing to memorialize her and not OUR own kids, with their own accomplishments.

Have you looked at Modi's and Mahato's resume? They're pretty good too. As I've said before, I have no problem with doing some sort of tribute- it's the classy thing to do. I have a problem with the attitude of "we should hold it because its the classy thing to do". While we're all so eager to do it when the everyone is watching, but we don't do it when no one is watching - when Mahato and Modi died.

ChiDevil
03-07-2008, 11:49 AM
Ok, but there was a game vs. Clemson the day after Mahato's murder in Cameron and there was no moment of silence....so that argument doesn't work.

The distinction that I see is that UNC is coming onto our turf immediately following a tragic event on their campus, for Duke not to acknowledge that would be totally insensitive.

This is a unique situation that deserves a unique response. I don't believe that moments of silence are de rigueur for every death (whether or not it should be is a totally separate issue.) I'm also not saying that it wouldn't be nice if Duke acknowledged its own tragedies, but it would be unthinkable not to acknowledge the tragedy of a fellow school immediately after its occurance. If UNC came to Duke four weeks after the incident, I doubt we would be discussing a moment of silence, but the timing here is important. MOreover, this was a unique incident in a number of other ways: 1) gruesome and seemingly random murder, 2) Student Body President --very high profile student, 3) same week as the seemingly random murder of another young southern college girl. These are unique cirucumstances warranting a uniquely sensitive response.

I don't mean to downplay the tragedy or loss of the other deaths at all. My deepest sympathies to their families and friends. I just hate to see racial issues popping up in this discussion. I think there are PLENTY of places where race is the real issue, but I just don't think that is the case this time.

Duvall
03-07-2008, 11:53 AM
Puh-lease. You cannot be serious. This story has broken nationally.

The media, of course, has consistently demonstrated good judgment on such matters.

acciconoclast
03-07-2008, 11:56 AM
http://universityrelations.unc.edu/alert/carson/

Just to clarify one point. Ms. Carson was president of the whole Carolina student body, not just her class.

OldPhiKap
03-07-2008, 12:08 PM
The media, of course, has consistently demonstrated good judgment on such matters.

That's not my point. I wish folks like Nancy Grace, for example, would fall of the end of the Earth for the good of us all. But this is not a little local story. If the roles were reversed -- our student body president (whatever his/her race, religion, gender, etc. happens to be) was brutally murdered a day or two before we played at Carolina, wouldn't we appreciate them making a simple humane gesture?

Some folks (not you, Duvall) act like showing sympathy here is inapproprate. If you feel that way, fine. Talk during the moment of silence, refuse to wear a ribbon, knock your socks off. To those who say that such sympathy should have been shown for others in the past -- you're probably right. But if someone was wronged in the past, that should force us to change the situation -- not perpetuate it.

End of soap box. Sorry.

unexpected
03-07-2008, 12:10 PM
http://universityrelations.unc.edu/alert/carson/

Just to clarify one point. Ms. Carson was president of the whole Carolina student body, not just her class.

My bad. I totally misread something then.

Again, I totally agree we should do something. It's the right thing to do, but I think it should happen in all cases.

When we played VTech and Maryland, were they any less vitriolic and hateful? Did they show special concern? No. Because they're them, and we're us, and I'm fine with that-

BUT, if it had been some random UNC student, (not racial or anything), it wouldn't have broken nationally, and we wouldn't be doing anything.

This imbalance is what I find unfair- we seem to be doing it because it became such a huge story. Why does this ethos only manifest itself when other people are watching? Why can't we do it when they're not, especially when it comes to "protecting our own"?

freshmanjs
03-07-2008, 12:13 PM
That's not my point. I wish folks like Nancy Grace, for example, would fall of the end of the Earth for the good of us all. But this is not a little local story. If the roles were reversed -- our student body president (whatever his/her race, religion, gender, etc. happens to be) was brutally murdered a day or two before we played at Carolina, wouldn't we appreciate them making a simple humane gesture?

Some folks (not you, Duvall) act like showing sympathy here is inapproprate. If you feel that way, fine. Talk during the moment of silence, refuse to wear a ribbon, knock your socks off. To those who say that such sympathy should have been shown for others in the past -- you're probably right. But if someone was wronged in the past, that should force us to change the situation -- not perpetuate it.

End of soap box. Sorry.

I have not seen any posts on this board that suggest we do nothing.

OldPhiKap
03-07-2008, 12:14 PM
Why does this ethos only manifest itself when other people are watching? Why can't we do it when they're not, especially when it comes to "protecting our own"?

I wholly agree, but I'm a (reformed) hippie. Ultimately, we have to start somewhere. Why not now, why not with this.

thewebb
03-07-2008, 12:35 PM
Cheering her name as you suggest would likely infuriate the Tarheels. They might think we were mocking her or trying to upset them.

Can't you guys see that putting this tragedy within the context of the evening is OK, but putting it among cheers and signs and whatever other ideas people have would cheapen it AND us.

Imagine how you would feel if you were her parents and the hated Dukies were chanting your dead daughter's name? No one is EVER going to see that as a tribute or as appropriate. I'm delighted to read that the Crazies are thinking of a way to memorialize her, but please let's not do anything like these suggestions.

Amen to above, how touching it could be before anthem for all of Cameron to sing " Fire and Rain"

weezie
03-07-2008, 12:39 PM
....how touching it could be before anthem for all of Cameron to sing " Fire and Rain"

Are you seriously suggesting this?

BD80
03-07-2008, 12:44 PM
It seems pretty obvious to me that the "white attractive female" vs. "minority male" factor is a huge part of the story breaking nationally. "Cute, blond white girl slain" sells papers, TV time, etc. "Brown person dead" does not. It's really nauseating, but it's true.



I don't think anyone is arguing against doing something in this case. It is, however, fair to question why nothing was done in the other cases.

Question, yes. Accuse, no.

There are a number of reasons this story in gaining national attention - the achievements of the young lady chief among them. I believe the Duke/UNC rivalry and tomorrow's game is another significant reason. The fact that she is attractive entices editors to run the story more prominently and with a picture to attract readership or viewership, and the picture will attract readers and viewers.

To raise the race card is nauseating. The circumstances in the events are greatly disparate. To claim there is some kind of prejudice because there are disparate reactions is unfair. It reminds me of my kids when they were young whining because one brother "got" something that the other didn't. Not everything in life is equal.

Please don't diminish the efforts to express sympathy for one tragedy by complaining about the reaction for other tragedies. What exactly did those complaining here do to see that the other tragedies were appropriately acknowledged?

weezie
03-07-2008, 12:52 PM
I now think we have debased both tragedies. This discussion is veering into moral nitpicking.

OldPhiKap
03-07-2008, 12:53 PM
I have not seen any posts on this board that suggest we do nothing.

I have taken some to say that we have not done anything for various folks in the past, therefore there is no reason to do anything in this situation. If I have misread any of those posts, my bad.

Bluedog
03-07-2008, 01:02 PM
Sorry for my contribution to the veering off the path of the main point of the thread. I didn't intend for that to occur. I think we can all agree that both murders were senseless acts of violence and the Duke community should extend its support to the UNC community. A moment of silence to honor Eve Carson should (and will) most definitely occur, and I think we'd seen the same from UNC basketball fans if the situation was reversed. She was clearly a remarkable individual who touched many people.

DukieInKansas
03-07-2008, 01:06 PM
FYI - Duke, appropriately, held a memorial service for the grad student. (I wasn't aware of the other death.)

I believe a moment of silence to acknowledge the UNC loss is completely appropriate.

TwoDukeTattoos
03-07-2008, 01:14 PM
It seems that more than ever, senseless crimes such as this are being committed. From Columbine to OK City to Va Tech to NIU to UNC to Auburn, etc. It's almost as though random killings are becoming glamorous in the eyes of the troubled.

My sincere thoughts and prayers go out to her friends, family, and aquaintances. In Nov 2004, I lost a good friend and co-worker on the job @ UNC to murder, so I can relate somewhat to what everyone is feeling. I pray that all can find comfort and peace.

unexpected
03-07-2008, 01:37 PM
I wholly agree, but I'm a (reformed) hippie. Ultimately, we have to start somewhere. Why not now, why not with this.

I agree with this. Saturday is going to be special. Maybe I'm too jaded, but the cynic tells me that this won't happen again in the future. Here's hoping, though.

Bluedog
03-07-2008, 01:43 PM
I agree with this. Saturday is going to be special. Maybe I'm too jaded, but the cynic tells me that this won't happen again in the future. Here's hoping, though.

Let's hope this does NOT happen again....but I know what you meant in regards to the moment of silence. But for the moment of silence to occur, something tragic has to occur...so, clearly, nobody wants that to happen again.

MulletMan
03-07-2008, 01:58 PM
FYI - Duke, appropriately, held a memorial service for the grad student. (I wasn't aware of the other death.)

I believe a moment of silence to acknowledge the UNC loss is completely appropriate.

This was my point earlier in this thread. The Duke family was able to reach out to and deal with our own tragedies in person... memorials on campus, I believe that there was a charter bus that took students to Alook's funeral in Ohio, etc. This is not a student from Duke, but perhaps we should share our condolences through a subtle, yet supportive display.

slower
03-07-2008, 03:02 PM
It seems pretty obvious to me that the "white attractive female" vs. "minority male" factor is a huge part of the story breaking nationally. "Cute, blond white girl slain" sells papers, TV time, etc. "Brown person dead" does not. It's really nauseating, but it's true.

All that said, I agree completely with both the high-minded human and cynical PR reasons for a tribute.

IMO, it's more a case of "Student body president" vs. "Random student" than the other cynical yet obvious comparisons that you cite.

tecumseh
03-07-2008, 03:11 PM
I would hope that perhaps the parents have picked out a charity and that they could "pass the hat" to collect for the charity at the game and maybe even have Roy and K come out and say a few words and even say donate to this living memorial. This is obviously a terrible thing but some sort of memorial foundation or scholarship could be set up and on national TV some serious dollars could be donated and at least a little good could come from it and hopefully a small amount of solace in the coming years.

tecumseh
03-07-2008, 03:16 PM
I was at Duke when we lost our student body president Reggie Howard and though it was not murder he was just as dead and it was extremely tragic that someone with so much potential was taken from us. The Reggie Howard scholarship fund since then has provided great opportunities for deserving students. It is five full merit scholarships a year for minority students. Eve Carson was a scholarship student perhaps something similar could come of this. Anyone connected would need to work quickly though

PumpkinFunk
03-07-2008, 03:50 PM
There will be a moment of silence. Nobody knows what else is going to happen.

blazindw
03-07-2008, 04:03 PM
I was at Duke when we lost our student body president Reggie Howard and though it was not murder he was just as dead and it was extremely tragic that someone with so much potential was taken from us. The Reggie Howard scholarship fund since then has provided great opportunities for deserving students. It is five full merit scholarships a year for minority students. Eve Carson was a scholarship student perhaps something similar could come of this. Anyone connected would need to work quickly though

DSG also named their award for cabinet member of the year after Reggie Howard, of which I was a proud recipient in 2004.

mapei
03-07-2008, 04:46 PM
How horrible that we have this event to talk about. I hope we do acknowledge it, and with dignity.

JBDuke
03-07-2008, 10:07 PM
None of her accomplishments affect Duke though. (FWIW, she was president of her CLASS not the student body - not to diminish anything). I don't see how anything on her resume directly impacts Duke - which is why I find so troubling that we're so willing to memorialize her and not OUR own kids, with their own accomplishments.

Have you looked at Modi's and Mahato's resume? They're pretty good too. As I've said before, I have no problem with doing some sort of tribute- it's the classy thing to do. I have a problem with the attitude of "we should hold it because its the classy thing to do". While we're all so eager to do it when the everyone is watching, but we don't do it when no one is watching - when Mahato and Modi died.

Stop.

If you want to discuss racial issues, that discussion belongs on the Public Policy Board. The death of any college student is tragic, but this thread is about the death of Eve Carson and how, if at all, the subject should be addressed at the game Saturday night.

Further discussions not sympathetic to this theme will be deleted from this thread.

CameronBornAndBred
03-07-2008, 11:40 PM
Stop.
Further discussions about other students will be deleted from this thread.

JB, please don't stand behind your words. Part of mourning is sharing, which might include hearing to stories from students/alumni/friends with close experiences. We on this forum most likely have not met this woman, but she has generated enough passion in our community to prompt the number of responses in this thread. Not all of them are about her per se, but they are all prompted by her untimely loss. Let the people share the stories and blessings they have, please. Thanks

CameronBornAndBred
03-08-2008, 12:07 AM
She had the world on her shoulders..

Nods to the plagiarism clause, this is from here.. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23504235)
"Carson was a prestigious Morehead-Cain scholar and a North Carolina Fellow, taking part in a four-year leadership development program for undergraduates. A premed student, she majored in political science and biology, taught science at a Chapel Hill elementary school, studied abroad in Cuba and spent summers volunteering in Ecuador, Egypt and Ghana as part of a school program."

watzone
03-08-2008, 12:21 AM
She will be honored by both teams in a way that I feel is appropriate tomorrow.

billybreen
03-08-2008, 10:04 AM
JB, please don't stand behind your words. Part of mourning is sharing, which might include hearing to stories from students/alumni/friends with close experiences. We on this forum most likely have not met this woman, but she has generated enough passion in our community to prompt the number of responses in this thread. Not all of them are about her per se, but they are all prompted by her untimely loss. Let the people share the stories and blessings they have, please. Thanks

I think JB is drawing the line where people are using this story to make broader points about unfair media coverage (or lack thereof) of other tragedies. I agree with JB -- those posts don't belong here.

unexpected
03-08-2008, 10:35 AM
I think JB is drawing the line where people are using this story to make broader points about unfair media coverage (or lack thereof) of other tragedies. I agree with JB -- those posts don't belong here.

I'm sorry if that's how I came off. That wasn't my intent at all. I could care less about media coverage. The point I was trying to make was about us, as Duke fans, and the way we handle tragedies. Since it was about us and basketball, I really don't feel like it belongs on a board filled with McCain, Obama, and Hillary.

In any case, this is my last post on this thread. I think a lot of people understood my point, and I just want to get pumped for the game!

Jumbo
03-08-2008, 10:51 AM
I think JB is drawing the line where people are using this story to make broader points about unfair media coverage (or lack thereof) of other tragedies. I agree with JB -- those posts don't belong here.

Indeed. And I have no problem with someone starting another thread on the PP board about this issues. That we people can grieve/analyze/share stories in multiple ways. Let's just leave this thread for people to discuss what is a horrible tragedy and what is/would be an appropriate tribute at a basketball game. I'll add my name to those sending thoughts and prayers to Eve's family and friends.

BlueDevilBaby
12-20-2011, 02:53 PM
CNN just reported that the man arrested for killing Eve Carson was found guilty.

MulletMan
12-20-2011, 03:29 PM
CNN just reported that the man arrested for killing Eve Carson was found guilty.

Well, sort of. A second man has been convicted murdering Eve Carson. (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10518672/) The first suspect confessed over a year ago. Thankfully the brutal details that came out in this trial are not contained in the article that I've linked.

It should also be noted that Lovette, the man convicted today, is also accused of shooting and killing Duke graduate student Abhijit Mahato. This dirt bag was on parole when he killed these two promising young people. Truly sad. And I'm sorry, the end of this WRAL article paints a sympathetic picture of Lovette, but its hard for me to care one ounce about him or how hard this is on him or how he's going to better himself during his lifetime behind bars.

OZZIE4DUKE
12-20-2011, 03:32 PM
Well, sort of. A second man has been convicted murdering Eve Carson. (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10518672/) The first suspect confessed over a year ago. Thankfully the brutal details that came out in this trial are not contained in the article that I've linked.

It should also be noted that Lovette, the man convicted today, is also accused of shooting and killing Duke graduate student Abhijit Mahato. This dirt bag was on parole when he killed these two promising young people. Truly sad. And I'm sorry, the end of this WRAL article paints a sympathetic picture of Lovette, but its hard for me to care one ounce about him or how hard this is on him or how he's going to better himself during his lifetime behind bars.
Let's be thankful that this trial was in Orange County and not Durham, and hope that their D.A. is more competent (and honest) than those in Durham, so these convictions don't get thrown out a couple of years down the road and these dirtbags go free.

Newton_14
12-20-2011, 06:30 PM
Well, sort of. A second man has been convicted murdering Eve Carson. (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10518672/) The first suspect confessed over a year ago. Thankfully the brutal details that came out in this trial are not contained in the article that I've linked.

It should also be noted that Lovette, the man convicted today, is also accused of shooting and killing Duke graduate student Abhijit Mahato. This dirt bag was on parole when he killed these two promising young people. Truly sad. And I'm sorry, the end of this WRAL article paints a sympathetic picture of Lovette, but its hard for me to care one ounce about him or how hard this is on him or how he's going to better himself during his lifetime behind bars.

I followed the trial closely and you are right about the details, previously unknown, that came out. Sickening. One of the most senseless taking of life I have ever seen, with the excuse given that "she saw our faces". Well, hello, so did the rest of us when we saw the surveillance video's the very next day. Just senseless. Two guys with no regard for human life. Yet somehow, as you note, his lawyer today, spoke of Lovette's "compassion". Nice try. We saw his true compassion the day he stood over a helpless and terrified young woman in the middle of a road and decided to take her life, while she was asking him to pray with her.