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DavidBenAkiva
03-05-2008, 09:19 PM
Fred Mitchell of the Chicago Tribune wrote an article (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-080303-black-magic-fred-mitchell,1,6557152.column) previewing an upcoming ESPN documentary entitled "Black Magic" about segregation, discrimination, and Black athletes in basketball. Among the nuggets in the article, Mitchell talked about the "Secret Game" that took place in Durham, NC in March of 1944.

The all-white Duke basketball team, hiding under their jackets as they walked from the bus to the gym, went to North Carolina College for Negroes and played the all-black team. They lost 88-44. I applaud Duke for breaking the law, as it was illegal for the White team to play an African-American team in basketball.

We've discussed in the past that Duke is "White Team," with what appears to be an abundance of White players. I thought that this was a cool perspective on Duke and the history of African-Americans in the sport, as well as segregation and other forms of bigotry. I'm looking forward to watching the two-part series.

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana

Cameron
03-05-2008, 09:49 PM
When you really do sit down and think about it, we've probably had more white superstars than any other college basketball program over the last 20 to 25 years. Think of the list: Ferry, Laettner, Hurley, Parks, Wojociehowski, Dunleavy, Redick, Paulus, McRoberts (I mention him for mere nationally recognized reasons, not because he was a superstar), Scheyer, and now Singler.

I realize, however, that this means little to nothing. Coach K is not "choosing" races when he recruits. But still interesting nevertheless.

RelativeWays
03-05-2008, 09:52 PM
Those players are also more likely to stick around than just a year or two, which is probably more important to K than their skin color (McRoberts being the exception...and Dunleavy, except he stayed at least 3 years).

fan345678
03-05-2008, 10:06 PM
I wouldn't say all those guys were superstars. Of Duke players during the integrated era whose parents were apparently both caucasian, only Gminski, Ferry, Laettner, Hurley, and Redick have been "superstars."

But still, that's probably more than any other school has had.

When can we get an article about our superstars whose parents were of two different races?

Uncle Drew
03-05-2008, 11:45 PM
In an era where we are probably going to elect our first US president of African descent. It's amazing to think about an era I never knew, glad I didn't grow up in and am glad is behind us.

At the same time race is thrust into our living rooms and lives if not on a daily, then at least monthly basis. I have had African American fans for other schools tell me point blank they don't like Duke because Duke is too "white". And as much as some would like to deny it, there has to be a small portion of fans who like Duke because they get a high number of white players. That's not to say these people are quote unquote racist. But we as human beings tend to want to congregate with people like us and see people on TV that resemble and act like us. In a sport with a high percentage of African American players in the pros and college it really isn't a shock that people enjoy seeing someone they relate to playing a sport.

Tiger Woods has probably inspired tons of minority children to take up golf, a sport that until he came along was about as white as you can get. Arthur Ashe proved in tennis that an African American can compete and excell. While I could care less if Duke sported a team of all blacks, whites, asians etc. I think it's VERY important to note the intelligence of all players playing for Duke as opposed to other schools especially after 4 years. Duke players white and black are for the very most part articulate when speaking to the media and regardless of background are bettering themselves attending Duke. I will never forget Ed Cota's famous quote as a SENIOR after losing to Duke, "If Antawan and Vince had been here it wouldn't have been no contest". And taking a look at Maryland's graduation rate of all players speaks volumes to how much their players are truly bettering themselves in school.

I do have one question perhaps someone could explain to me. An athlete like Shane Battier, Tiger Woods or Langdon who is of mixed race, why is it they seem to wear one side of their race on their sleeve like a badge of courage and identity, yet barely acknowledge the white portion. Battier while in Memphis was noted to doing several charitable works for African American causes. Tiger Woods rarely gets noted for being Asian except when he goes to his mothers home country to play a tournament. I have no problem with anyone being proud of their race. But it seems sometimes with people of mixed race they want to focus on one part and it's almost like they are ashamed of the other. In some sectors of the black community speaking with good grammer, in an articulate manner is regarded as selling out and being "too white". I for one applaud the African American players we have had who not only scored baskets and made touchdowns, but especially those who took the time to learn something durring their Duke days and represent the school with class and dignity.

Jumbo
03-05-2008, 11:54 PM
Everyone, please tread carefully in this thread. I don't want to have to move it to the public policy board. This tends to be a very sensitive subject.

crimsondevil
03-06-2008, 12:03 AM
The all-white Duke basketball team, hiding under their jackets as they walked from the bus to the gym, went to North Carolina College for Negroes and played the all-black team. They lost 88-44. I applaud Duke for breaking the law, as it was illegal for the White team to play an African-American team in basketball.

I hesistated before posting in this thread since I'm not sure I like where this is going, but my natural inclination for accuracy got the best of me:
I don't want to diminish what such a game represents, but for clarity's sake, a couple minutes research revealed that the "Duke team" was not the varsity team but a med school intramural team (though reportedly composed of some pretty good former players from other schools). It's very possible the varsity would also have lost, but probably not by 44 points. It's a neat enough story without embellishment.
See link:
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=94352&SPID=1841&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1306520

Mike Corey
03-06-2008, 12:31 AM
I do have one question perhaps someone could explain to me. An athlete like Shane Battier, Tiger Woods or Langdon who is of mixed race, why is it they seem to wear one side of their race on their sleeve like a badge of courage and identity, yet barely acknowledge the white portion.

The questions you raise regarding identity require extensive, probing answers, ones that I will not pretend to have within me or within my intellectual or anecdotal grasp.

I have thoughts on the subject, as do most here I'd imagine, but rather than offer an amateur's opinion--mine--I think it would be more productive of me to direct you to a professional's.

Maddeningly, the author and book title I'd like to direct you toward are both escaping me at the moment...but suffice it to say, it is an autobiographical consideration of a white man's discovery that he was of black ancestry, and how that knowledge impacted his self-identification, and much more.

So I will hope that someone will have a better memory than I, and can offer up the author and title accordingly...or the author and title of superior articles/books on the subject at hand.

Kilby
03-06-2008, 02:31 AM
The reason why people of mixed races identify with the minority is simple. Racism. No matter how subtle it's still there and it's still felt. If the person of mixed race felt equally welcomed you would not find this phenomenon. Did you guys know that genetically there are really only three races. Aboriginals, Eskimos and everybody else. Some anthropologist would argue a forth in that Germans have some neanderthal mixing (why they may tend to be bigger and stronger). There is not enough difference in the genes of everyone else to make a distinction. And, the differnce in genes that make up what "we" call race is so small that an African-American is likely to have be closer genetically to an asian or caucasion as another than another African-American.

mgtr
03-06-2008, 02:49 AM
The IP tells a story of which I was not aware. Perhaps the next leg of this story (though not involving Duke), is the movie Glory Road, a mostly true representatiion of basketball turning color. I remember seeing that game on National TV. I also recall when Rick Barry (a long forgotten superstar) came into the league about that same time (mid-sixties), and how he was was referred to as "the great white hope." You no longer hear such references, which is a sign of how our civilization has advanced.

4decadedukie
03-06-2008, 03:12 AM
During my Navy career, everyone was "Navy blue." For this (and similar) threads, every athlete (and member of the Duke Community, for that matter) is "Duke Blue." Some may believe this makes me sociologically naive, but racism (to me) simply means any treatment, attitude, behavior, and so forth -- favorable or unfavorable -- that is racially-based. I hope -- and I sincerely believe --that the Duke Basketball Programs are FAR past that archaic paradigm.

I have attempted commented with care, and urge others participants to judiciously evaluate their input before designating "submit reply."

Kilby
03-06-2008, 03:38 AM
4decadedukie,
So who is your favorite Duke player?

4decadedukie
03-06-2008, 04:21 AM
Battier

JStuart
03-06-2008, 05:59 AM
I will never forget Ed Cota's famous quote as a SENIOR after losing to Duke, "If Antawan and Vince had been here it wouldn't have been no contest". And taking a look at Maryland's graduation rate of all players speaks volumes to how much their players are truly bettering themselves in school.

And then there was Walter Davis (Sweet Pea, I believe was his nickname), after his Tarheels were upset by Duke, "Sometimes it just be's that way,"
my favorite UNC student-athlete quotation.

doctorhook
03-06-2008, 06:58 AM
JStuart,

Glad to see the clarification about the team composition, it was a med school team, not the varsity. Also, I think that quote is attributable to Al Wood rather than James Worthy. Doc

upstateny
03-06-2008, 07:00 AM
Walter Davis was Sweet D, are you still bitter about his shot to send the UNC-Duke game into overtime?

MChambers
03-06-2008, 07:04 AM
Walter Davis was Sweet D, are you still bitter about his shot to send the UNC-Duke game into overtime?

One of his nicknames was Pea Head.

upstateny
03-06-2008, 07:15 AM
Never heard that one. Walter was 11-1 for his career against Duke, maybe that had something to do with his difficulty to find the right words at that time.

snowdenscold
03-06-2008, 07:33 AM
I will never forget Ed Cota's famous quote as a SENIOR after losing to Duke, "If Antawan and Vince had been here it wouldn't have been no contest". And taking a look at Maryland's graduation rate of all players speaks volumes to how much their players are truly bettering themselves in school.


Perhaps he was acknowledging that it was no contest (in Duke's favor) since they weren't there - but if they had been, there would have been a contest. That's plausible, right? ;)

doctorhook
03-06-2008, 08:14 AM
Again, wasn't that a quote from Al Wood, not James Worthy? Doc

Spret42
03-06-2008, 08:35 AM
I do have one question perhaps someone could explain to me. An athlete like Shane Battier, Tiger Woods or Langdon who is of mixed race, why is it they seem to wear one side of their race on their sleeve like a badge of courage and identity, yet barely acknowledge the white portion.


As a person of with a white parent and a black parent I can tell you with a fair degree of certainty there is no one answer to this question. Every person comes to grips with who they are and how they identify themselves in their own way.

My parents raised me to understand that a large part of me was black, but they were also very clear that a part of me came from my mother too. The question then came, what did I do with that. I have recently come to the idea that I am both black and white, but neither black or white.

And I will be honest with you, I am not all that impressed with any racial group enough that I feel the need to identify with it, wear it as a badge of honor etc, or on the flip side ignore it completely. To be quite honest, all of you people annoy the hell out of me, black, white or whatever. I say that as a half joke, half dead serious.

On Duke being a "white" team. I used to be bothered by Duke having as many white players as it did, and its black players being the Grant Hill's (for God sake his mother was Hillary Clinton's college roommate:D), Shane Battier's and Jason Williams' of the world.

A friend pointed out to me once that this was not a bad thing. Duke is a private, very prestigous, very difficult academic institution. Coach Krzyzewski has in his years identified and recruited young men both black and white who mostly (not entirely, but mostly) were blessed with solid two parent families or where there was prior education and an interest in academics and athletics. He did so because he believes, I am sure, that those are the young men who can best utilize what he and the school has to offer.

There have been other coaches, John Chaney for example who felt their mission was to a different group of young men with a different background and set of circumstances. God bless them for that. For every Coach Krzyzewski looking to provide the best place for the Battier's and Hills, there needs to be a John Chaney working the other side. That is balance. Everything is better when it is in balance.

My problem is with Duke fans whose pride in the type of young men Duke has recruited etc, leads to a "high and mighty" attitude and looking down at others as not measuring up to Dukedom or not "bettering themselves" enough while in college.

JStuart
03-06-2008, 08:42 AM
JStuart,

Glad to see the clarification about the team composition, it was a med school team, not the varsity. Also, I think that quote is attributable to Al Wood rather than James Worthy. Doc

Indeed, Al Wood was the speaker, and not M. Davis. NNot enough caffeine this am, I suppose. Thanx for the correction.

DevilDad
03-06-2008, 08:57 AM
My son (Trinity `09) is multi-racial. My wife who is Asian and yours truly typical white guy. He tends to congregate with guys and gals that have the same major and outside interest. Race / ethinicity does not come into play.

upstateny
03-06-2008, 09:00 AM
Well said, Spret42. I sense some of this in mocking the comments of Cota, Davis, etc.

Devil in the Blue Dress
03-06-2008, 09:07 AM
And then there was Walter Davis (Sweet Pea, I believe was his nickname), after his Tarheels were upset by Duke, "Sometimes it just be's that way,"
my favorite UNC student-athlete quotation.

My recall was that this quote occurred on a day the sports writers called "Black Sunday" (March 11, 1979) when both Duke and Carolina were high seeds in the NCAA being played in Raleigh. Carolina lost to Penn State and Duke lost to St. Johns. I was watching on TV when the post game interview occurred and remember James Worthy as the one credited with it. Perhaps someone who's better at sports history than I can clarify.

IStillHateJimBain
03-06-2008, 09:14 AM
If Bob Verga hadn't come down with the flu before the 1966 National semifinal against Kentucky, it might have been Duke that played Texas Western in the famous championship game at Cole Field House.
Just think how history might have changed had it been Duke vs. Texas Western.
Funny how no one ever mentions the 1963 Loyola of Chicago team that started four black players.

IStillHateJimBain
03-06-2008, 09:16 AM
My recall was that this quote occurred on a day the sports writers called "Black Sunday" (March 11, 1979) when both Duke and Carolina were high seeds in the NCAA being played in Raleigh. Carolina lost to Penn State and Duke lost to St. Johns. I was watching on TV when the post game interview occurred and remember James Worthy as the one credited with it. Perhaps someone who's better at sports history than I can clarify.

I think it was Penn that Carolina lost to. Penn went on to make the Final Four and lose to Michigan State by around 40. All I remember about that day was that Duke couldn't stop Wayne McKoy.

Devil in the Blue Dress
03-06-2008, 09:24 AM
I think it was Penn that Carolina lost to. Penn went on to make the Final Four and lose to Michigan State by around 40. All I remember about that day was that Duke couldn't stop Wayne McKoy.
You're right that the team who beat Carolina was Penn. I was asking about which player was interviewed afterwards. . . . Was it James Worthy?

slower
03-06-2008, 09:30 AM
Well said, Spret42. I sense some of this in mocking the comments of Cota, Davis, etc.

is what's on their jersey. That's why they get mocked.

upstateny
03-06-2008, 09:31 AM
I'm pretty sure that James Worthy was still in high school when UNC lost to Penn.

Olympic Fan
03-06-2008, 10:10 AM
Perhaps the next leg of this story (though not involving Duke), is the movie Glory Road, a mostly true representatiion of basketball turning color.

If you think Glory Road is "mostly true" then I have a bridge to sell you. It was a badly distorted account of a real basketball story, one that managed the warp the real meaning of Texas Western's historic victory.

You might want to check out this DBR article about the film:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=20571

Uncle Drew
03-06-2008, 10:16 AM
My son (Trinity `09) is multi-racial. My wife who is Asian and yours truly typical white guy. He tends to congregate with guys and gals that have the same major and outside interest. Race / ethinicity does not come into play.

My appologies to all if my previous post stirred up a hornets nest, but I do thank those who took the time to try and explain an answer to my question. I myself am a quarter Cherokee and my first wife was Filipino. (Yes I know it's the Philippines, but the name of the people starts with an F.) I don't cling to my Native American heritage anymore than I think all Filipinos are insane due to my exwife. (Hey, she threw a meat cleaver at me that stuck in the wall 3 inches behind my head.)

While I am proud of the Claibornes, Banks and African American players who came to Duke. When Elliot Williams, Olek Czyz and Mason Plumlee step on the court for Duke I could care less what color or nationality they are, as long as they can play ball. And I have no doubt like most all past athletes, atending Duke will better them and the university itself for having them.

Devilsfan
03-06-2008, 10:18 AM
IMHO, Coach K is color blind when it comes to players. He seems to go by qualities like integrity, itelligence, family values and ability.

doctorhook
03-06-2008, 10:18 AM
Devilinthebluedress,

I am fairly certain it was Al Wood. Doc

greybeard
03-06-2008, 10:57 AM
If you think Glory Road is "mostly true" then I have a bridge to sell you. It was a badly distorted account of a real basketball story, one that managed the warp the real meaning of Texas Western's historic victory.

You might want to check out this DBR article about the film:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=20571

Thanks for the link. The article is fabulous. didn't know the DBR guys were that capable. ;)

wumhenry
03-06-2008, 11:29 AM
The reason why people of mixed races identify with the minority is simple. Racism. No matter how subtle it's still there and it's still felt.
Au contraire, it stands to reason that in a society where discrimination against a racial minority is both potent and pervasive, mixed-race people will try to "pass" as members of the majority race insofar as possible. I think that was how it was in the USA some decades ago. If it's true that nowadays mixed-race people who could pass for caucasian readily classify themselves as members of racial minority groups that would seem to suggest that affirmative action trumps majority-on-minority racism in practical effect.

wilko
03-06-2008, 12:24 PM
Spret42,
Thanks for your post. I found you had some very interesting things to say. A different perspective. So thanks for sharing your thoughts.


I used to be bothered by Duke having as many white players as it did, and its black players being the Grant Hill's, Shane Battier's and Jason Williams' of the world.

I totally dont get the sentiment here and why that would be bothersome on any level.

It could almost be interpreted as a poke in the eye, to David Henderson, Robert Brickey, Ricky Price, Dahntay Jones, Roshawn McLeod, John Smith, Andre Buckner (those come to mind quickly) and other fellows of color cut from this cloth who didnt have a silver-spoon, be it real or percieved.

The "cloth" Im reffering to is guys that can play; that K thinks fits the system.
Just curious about your line of thought.

The underlying implication of that almost seems to be that Basketball is solely the domain of underprivledged people of color. But that cant be the right conclusion based on your next statement about balance...


There have been other coaches, John Chaney for example who felt their mission was to a different group of young men with a different background and set of circumstances. God bless them for that. For every Coach Krzyzewski looking to provide the best place for the Battier's and Hills, there needs to be a John Chaney working the other side. That is balance. Everything is better when it is in balance.

Or are you saying you've learned how to tolerate Duke based on looking at a larger landscape of NCAA basketball.



My problem is with Duke fans whose pride in the type of young men Duke has recruited etc, leads to a "high and mighty" attitude and looking down at others as not measuring up to Dukedom or not "bettering themselves" enough while in college.

Whats high and mighty exactly? I like that our player are clean cut. I like that (aside from the occasional DUI) they dont beat up women, bait minors, shoot people, cheat on tests and generally avoid scandal. When things occur its fairly infrequent (as far as I know anyway).

Im a townie, from Durham. Just a fan. If I can razz your teams players cuz he has big ears, a bad haircut, a funny looking nose or he busted a parking meter looking for loose change; Im gonna do it. I dont care about race or status in that equation.

In fact... to cop Seinfeld.. "Im rooting for the laundry."
I dont care if college basketball is reduced to guys my height and weight running the Princeton O and takes 5 hours to play... I dont care if the goals are removed and replaced with holes in the floor for "little people" to score by dunking the ball in the hole.

If they call it basketball; I want Duke to be the best at it. PERIOD.

I realize I hit the the lottery of fandom. I was a fan when Duke wasnt so hot.
Its been a great ride, but pardon me for not being ready for it to end.

fogey
03-06-2008, 12:52 PM
One of his nicknames was Pea Head.

Walter Davis broke my heart. Shallow as this may be, I still recall watching the tube while feeding my infant daughter in her high chair in Glen Burnie, Maryland, when UNC rallied from 8 points down (long before 3 point shots) with 16 seconds left...and his chuck from the sideline just over half court (a la Sean Dockery) was the killer.

Davis actually resembled Jiminy Cricket (!) and so he enjoyed that nickname bequest from Dukies at the time as well.

Spret42
03-06-2008, 03:30 PM
Wow, there is a lot there.


I totally dont get the sentiment here and why that would be bothersome on any level.

Suffice it to say it shouldn't be bothersome and that was of course the whole point. But it was bothersome to a young person, a teenager, being raised by a black man, as I was at the time, who hadn't learned to view the world through more reasoned and grown up eyes. A teenager who viewed the game and it's participants in a very narrow manner. I hadn't begun to recognize the incredible amount of subtlety and variance in the lives and experiences of people and how the game wasn't the domain of a particular group of people or institutions.


It could almost be interpreted as a poke in the eye, to David Henderson, Robert Brickey, Ricky Price, Dahntay Jones, Roshawn McLeod, John Smith, Andre Buckner (those come to mind quickly) and other fellows of color cut from this cloth who didnt have a silver-spoon, be it real or percieved.

The players you mentioned above were indeed a part of Duke basketball and I obviously cannot speak to their backgrounds. However, there was something in them that lead Coach Krzyzewski to feel they could succeed and thrive in his program and at Duke while maintaining the integrity of the program. For him and for those young men, success was graduation and winning a tremendous amount of games.

Other coaches, like Chaney, have taken and reached out to young men they knew damned good and well could struggle, whose backgrounds, personalities were borderline, in an attempt to try to change those things. It was a risk for them. For them, success could be staying together for four years, learning to respect themselves and their lives. Graduation might not actually be a possibility or the goal. Maybe it was just a matter of building a foundation enough in life that the young man eventually would be able to build a life for themselves.




Or are you saying you've learned how to tolerate Duke based on looking at a larger landscape of NCAA basketball.


I am saying I grew the hell up.


Whats high and mighty exactly?

I only said this as a way of highlighting the need for perspective on things. Duke has a ton to be proud of, but pride is a dangerous thing when it leads to the idea that others are failures because they fail to measure up to your standards. I am sure Coach Krzyzewski would tell you how proud he is of fellow coaches who reach out to the young men he cannot and how he hurts for them and their young men when things don't turn out well. He seems like that kind of person.

Please don't view this as an argument for no standards. I believe in very high standards, a very high bar. We should not accept it when young men fail to live up to basic standards of decent conduct, the consequences should remain, but I refuse to beat on people for stats, grad rates etc. For some folks, just making it to tomorrow without going mad from the pain is a victory.

Lotus000
03-06-2008, 03:36 PM
This thread is sort of...a) worthless b) disturbing for a number of reasons.

1) What does this REALLY have to do with Duke Basketball?

2) If some person said the converse, "Memphis is a black team..." they'd probably be stoned and put in a pillory.

weezie
03-06-2008, 04:10 PM
Second the above.

Life's too short for such agonizing.

Spret42
03-06-2008, 04:15 PM
Second the above.

Life's too short for such agonizing.

I derailed the thread. It is my fault. I just read something Latta said (none of which was bad or anything) and wanted to comment on it.

When it comes to basketball it gets viewed by so many people through such a racial prism, I suppose I let loose on some things that were knocking around in my head regarding the attitude towards certain teams, coaches, etc.

weezie
03-06-2008, 04:20 PM
I derailed the thread. It is my fault. I just read something Latta said (none of which was bad or anything) and wanted to comment on it.

When it comes to basketball it gets viewed by so many people through such a racial prism, I suppose I let loose on some things that were knocking around in my head regarding the attitude towards certain teams, coaches, etc.

No, no, you're entitled to your feelings and beliefs. It was just making me sad. After the loss of the poor girl at unc, it's just a long afternoon.
Big ups to you spretster.

Duvall
03-06-2008, 04:22 PM
This thread is sort of...a) worthless b) disturbing for a number of reasons.

1) What does this REALLY have to do with Duke Basketball?

2) If some person said the converse, "Memphis is a black team..." they'd probably be stoned and put in a pillory.

Yeah, is there some way this thread can get spiked, or at least renamed? I realize that an apparent declaration of racial allegience is probably less problematic than unchecked unsubtle sarcasm, but the moderators may want to step in here.

GDT
03-06-2008, 04:34 PM
I derailed the thread. It is my fault.

Maybe, I don't think so, but it was an honest answer to an interesting question in my opinion. I appreciate your candor and I agree that graduation statistics don't tell the whole story. You can paint Juan Dixon as a Maryland player with their bad rate or you can see him in the light he deserves. Which maybe reflects back on MD in a favorable way (oh, it hurt to write that).

wilko
03-06-2008, 05:27 PM
I derailed the thread. It is my fault. I just read something Latta said (none of which was bad or anything) and wanted to comment on it.

When it comes to basketball it gets viewed by so many people through such a racial prism, I suppose I let loose on some things that were knocking around in my head regarding the attitude towards certain teams, coaches, etc.

Dude, you have nothing to apolgize for. I wasnt joking when I said I liked your earlier post. You had some good stuff. I was genuinely trying to get a better understanding. Sorry if I rambled a on a bit. I couldnt tell if you were a Duke fan or not quite frankly. I guess I missed your initial point.

I must be the one to apologize if you took my tone to be anything other than civil and my intent to less than genuine for having open honest discussion. I wasnt trying to pick a fight or make an enemy.

Its hard to have an honest discourse on race by well meaning people. Maybe this isnt the best forum for such things, and maybe I was off base a bit, but I could help but think you were looking for a similar conversation or you wouldnt have posted what you did.

That took guts I thought. I wasnt going to let an opportunity to expand my awareness pass me by like that.


maybe I should have said something like Duke is a white team when they play at home. (referring to jersey color)

mgtr
03-06-2008, 06:21 PM
If you think Glory Road is "mostly true" then I have a bridge to sell you. It was a badly distorted account of a real basketball story, one that managed the warp the real meaning of Texas Western's historic victory.

You might want to check out this DBR article about the film:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=20571

I still believe that Glory Road is mostly true, and a great movie. The major distortion (or lie, or what have you) is compressing 3-4 years into one year. Virtually every review makes this point. That doesn't bother me, it is not supposed to be a documentary, it is a movie. I think the makers captured the essence of the story.
As stated in my original post, I remember clearly watching the final game on TV.
The Buddy Holly Story was a good movie, but not historically accurate. Thats OK with me -- it captured the essence of Buddy Holly.

Uncle Drew
03-06-2008, 06:40 PM
I derailed the thread. It is my fault. I just read something Latta said (none of which was bad or anything) and wanted to comment on it.

When it comes to basketball it gets viewed by so many people through such a racial prism, I suppose I let loose on some things that were knocking around in my head regarding the attitude towards certain teams, coaches, etc.

Oh yeah blame me!! I'm kidding. My initial question was addressed via private message very well by Down Under earlier today, and I completely understand about ones own self perspective. While it disappoints me to hear a black friend say "Duke is too white" like anyone he is allowed to have his own view. I don't agree with him anymore than I truly think UNC is a University FOR the people (i.e. the average Joe). But every school and fanbase has it's view of itself and how the rest of the world looks at it.

It kind of reminds me of the recent back and forth between Coach K and Roy toy. Coach K for the most part let Roy say what he wanted to say without addressing it. Perhaps he didn't care what Roy had to say or he let people think what they wanted to think. It took a media person listening to the initial interview and saying oops for the truth to come out. It seems Coach K has figured out no amount of campaining is going to make certain people like Duke and give the school, coaches and players their due. Most all of us have commented in the Duke Hatred Tsunami thread over the past months. But he truth is people are going to think what they want to think and little if anything will change a truly biased mind.

Again I do appologize to the readers and mods if my comments have taken this thread off it's initial focus.

Lauderdevil
03-12-2008, 02:49 PM
Didn't see anyone else mention that the the upcoming ESPN series "Black Magic" (it's been promoted heavily during games the last couple of weeks) has a segment about the 1944 "Secret Game." The following is an excerpt from Newsweek's article in this week's issue (http://www.newsweek.com/id/120089)


On March 16 and 17, ESPN will air director Dan Klores's four-hour "Black Magic," which examines the rise of basketball at black colleges during the civil-rights era, a time when hardwood floors were the only level playing field around. Klores's film has great stories to tell, such as the secret 1944 scrimmage between white Duke University students and a team from the North Carolina College for Negroes, a game that could've been deadly if word got out. (NCCN won, 88-44.)

Bluedog
03-12-2008, 02:53 PM
Didn't see anyone else mention that the the upcoming ESPN series "Black Magic" (it's been promoted heavily during games the last couple of weeks) has a segment about the 1944 "Secret Game." The following is an excerpt from Newsweek's article in this week's issue (http://www.newsweek.com/id/120089)

See the Duke-NCCU secret game (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7544) thread.