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DukePA
03-04-2008, 06:17 PM
Here's the link to the Tent 1 blog responding to the recent SI article (the link to article is included in the blog). Well Done Crazies! I'm proud of you guys. Can't wait to see what you come up with on Saturday!!

http://web.mac.com/andersc/Tent_Blog/Blog/Entries/2008/3/4_.html

GTHC, GTH

dukegirlinsc
03-04-2008, 06:28 PM
I'm thankful this blog was originally shared with us a few weeks ago. It gives me a pretty good insight on what life would be like spending a huge part of my life in K-Ville. (Being that will more than likely never happen for me.)

feldspar
03-04-2008, 06:28 PM
Oh gracious. Tent 1 is being a little overdramatic here, don't you think?

The Crazies were only a blip on the radar screen of that column, which I quite enjoyed.

Jumbo
03-04-2008, 06:42 PM
Agreed, Feldspar. Grant Wahl's original story barely criticized the Crazies, if at all. Oregon and Illinois were singled out. Heck, UNC took more criticism than Duke. In fact, when Duke was discussed, it was more as an example of the blurry line between clever and abusive. In fact, Wahl basically writes just that: "But what is that line? When Duke's Cameron Crazies donned caps and gowns on Feb. 13 and held up signs reading MARYLAND BASKETBALL: FEAR THE CLASSROOM, was it a creative dig at their rival's ACC-lowest graduation rate or a boorish put-down?"

Tent1's reaction is WAAAAAAAY over the top and doesn't show a particularly strong understanding of the overall point of the article.

weezie
03-04-2008, 09:04 PM
They're all great kids in those tents. Their dedication is unparalleled in the college game, they are the gold standard in fandom. Speaking as a member of a much removed generation, the Crazies have to take it once in a while in addition to dishing it out.
Just channel that always handy anger at SI into cheering the roof off Cameron on Saturday.

Wander
03-04-2008, 09:26 PM
Tent1's reaction is WAAAAAAAY over the top and doesn't show a particularly strong understanding of the overall point of the article.

You better be careful with that criticism, Jumbo, or Tent 1 will write a blog entry about you.

DavidBenAkiva
03-04-2008, 09:28 PM
I have to agree with Tent 1 on this. The article in the print version of Sports Illustrated was fair and balanced, but the online article was not. EVERY picture on the website was of a Duke player or taken at Cameron Indoor Stadium. I understand that they can't and shouldn't reprint every article from the magazine online, but that editorial decision didn't seem fair to Duke University, the Cameron Crazies, and especially Tent 1.

The article discussed terrible incidents, but if you just looked at the pictures (which many people do on the internet...) you would be left with the perception that Duke is the home of some of the most vulgar, terrible fan behavior this side of a soccor riot. Your average Terrapin or Tar Heel may agree with that, but it is hard to objectively argue that Duke fans are way out of line. Those pictures, just by ONLY being of Duke students, seems to tell that story.

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana

jipops
03-04-2008, 09:33 PM
Based on what I read in the SI article, it certainly seems as though tent 1 could be getting a little Roy Williams-ish in sensitivity.

Edit- I read the magazine article, not the online one.

Jumbo
03-04-2008, 09:34 PM
I have to agree with Tent 1 on this. The article in the print version of Sports Illustrated was fair and balanced, but the online article was not. EVERY picture on the website was of a Duke player or taken at Cameron Indoor Stadium. I understand that they can't and shouldn't reprint every article from the magazine online, but that editorial decision didn't seem fair to Duke University, the Cameron Crazies, and especially Tent 1.

The article discussed terrible incidents, but if you just looked at the pictures (which many people do on the internet...) you would be left with the perception that Duke is the home of some of the most vulgar, terrible fan behavior this side of a soccor riot. Your average Terrapin or Tar Heel may agree with that, but it is hard to objectively argue that Duke fans are way out of line. Those pictures, just by ONLY being of Duke students, seems to tell that story.

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana

What? The very first picture is of the UNC crowd. The second picture shows no fans -- just Deron Washington jumping over Paulus. If the best argument to defend Tent 1 is the idea that people might draw conclusions from pictures because they are too lazy to actually read the story, that's not much of an argument at all.

Cavlaw
03-04-2008, 09:43 PM
The article itself wasn't particularly critical of the crazies, but the site editors certainly targeted them with the selection of pictures (3 for 3 featuring Duke)and if I recall correctly the text links on quite a few pages over the past several days mentioned Duke.

jlear
03-04-2008, 10:09 PM
The blog response seemed fine to me. It didn't slam the article it slamed how posters making fun of a 0% graduation rate were in the same list with death threats, and F*#^ You chants. I took exception to that as well.

The article wasn't that bad but the Photo Gallery (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0802/campus.fan.abuse/content.14.html)was titled "Abusive College Hoops Fans" had 14 pictures - 4 of Duke - 2 of UNC (both making fun of Duke)- 2 for Memphis - 1 of everyone else. I thought the Duke and UNC pictures did not even approach abusive, maybe a couple of the others were abusive. A photo gallery with a nasty title is far from unbiased reporting.

GTHC GTH!

snowdenscold
03-04-2008, 10:32 PM
The article discussed terrible incidents, but if you just looked at the pictures (which many people do on the internet...) you would be left with the perception that Duke is the home of some of the most vulgar, terrible fan behavior this side of a soccor riot. Your average Terrapin or Tar Heel may agree with that, but it is hard to objectively argue that Duke fans are way out of line. Those pictures, just by ONLY being of Duke students, seems to tell that story.


Huh? Are we talking about the same online article? I went here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/sioncampus/02/26/abusive.fans0303/index.html

and based on those three pictures, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Ders24
03-04-2008, 10:38 PM
I believe the newer link has different pictures than those in the original article.

snowdenscold
03-04-2008, 10:43 PM
I believe the newer link has different pictures than those in the original article.

Interesting...

Ders24
03-04-2008, 10:51 PM
Oh my bad, they are the same pictures. I was thinking of some of the pictures from the photo gallery that someone posted. Sorry.

Richard Berg
03-04-2008, 11:34 PM
I think both the SI article and the blog response are non-issues. The blog had kind of an "I'm shocked...shocked I tell you!" feel that wasn't warranted by the treatment in SI, but there was nothing overly grating about it. Tent 1 made their case and stuck to the facts. They just sounded like typical undergrad writers in the process ;)

hc5duke
03-05-2008, 12:22 AM
Tent 1... just sounded like typical undergrad writers in the process ;)

you forgot to shake your fist and yell "dern kids, git off my lawn!" :)

DevilAlumna
03-05-2008, 01:18 AM
Here's the link to the Tent 1 blog responding to the recent SI article (the link to article is included in the blog). Well Done Crazies! I'm proud of you guys. Can't wait to see what you come up with on Saturday!!

http://web.mac.com/andersc/Tent_Blog/Blog/Entries/2008/3/4_.html

GTHC, GTH

Three words:

Seriously? Awesome. Seriously!

(Are Tent 1 members wanting to write for "Grey's Anatomy" one day?)

AwesomelyRBD!
03-05-2008, 06:56 AM
Speaking from a tent one perspective, I suppose what offended us are the few lazy swipes at Duke in the absence of actual material. While taking potshots at Duke is nothing new, the “boorish behavior” they criticize was specifically done by us. It was tent one and tent two that dressed up in graduation gowns for the game. We were the ones with the “fear the classroom” signs and the ones who picked up on “the mind is a Terrapin thing to waste”. The pictures for the Maryland game feature our members. The picture gallery mainly featured the Cameron Crazies, despite our scant reference in the article. And given the context of the article, we are mentioned in the same breath as a crowd cheering for Paulus to be tea-bagged.

And regarding the informal language, it’s just a blog, people. Elevated writing can be left elsewhere. Seriously, you should just take it in the spirit it was meant to be read. :) I believe the tone is moderately humorous and capable of being read without expressing overdramatic statements about how overdramatic we are. Even the DBR boards are hating on us. *shakes head* Don't worry, we'll get through this... :D

killerleft
03-05-2008, 07:50 AM
Tent 1 gets the benefit of the doubt. You know, that whole Band of Brothers thing. We don't have to pile on ourselves, there are thousands that will do that for us.

And, with no basketball grads in what, 5 years, A Mind IS a Terrapin Thing to Waste. Heck, why not study and graduate while you're in college?

Jumbo
03-05-2008, 08:12 AM
Speaking from a tent one perspective, I suppose what offended us are the few lazy swipes at Duke in the absence of actual material. While taking potshots at Duke is nothing new, the “boorish behavior” they criticize was specifically done by us. It was tent one and tent two that dressed up in graduation gowns for the game. We were the ones with the “fear the classroom” signs and the ones who picked up on “the mind is a Terrapin thing to waste”. The pictures for the Maryland game feature our members. The picture gallery mainly featured the Cameron Crazies, despite our scant reference in the article. And given the context of the article, we are mentioned in the same breath as a crowd cheering for Paulus to be tea-bagged.

And regarding the informal language, it’s just a blog, people. Elevated writing can be left elsewhere. Seriously, you should just take it in the spirit it was meant to be read. :) I believe the tone is moderately humorous and capable of being read without expressing overdramatic statements about how overdramatic we are. Even the DBR boards are hating on us. *shakes head* Don't worry, we'll get through this... :D

I don't think it was humorous, and I don't think it represents the Crazies (or Duke) well at all. Please point out the precise examples (using quotes) where Grant Wahl took "potshots" at the Crazies. Thanks.

Bluedog
03-05-2008, 08:13 AM
I can understand what Tent 1 is saying. Even though the article doesn't explicitly take a shot at Duke's fans, they imply the behavior is borderline abusive by including it in an article titled "Over the Top: Extreme vulgarity and taunting by college basketball fans this season raise the question: How much is too much? For schools and conferences, it's time to act." Wouldn't you be offended if your clever cheer (I personally think the Maryland graduation signs were clever and not a cheap shot) was included in such an article?!? It's not that there were swipes of the Cameron Crazies in the article, it's the fact that it was even included in the article (with a picture and a brief mention) at all when the supposed purpose of the article is to give examples of over the top fan behavior.

Also, I didn't mind the informal language and the "seriously?!?!"s....Some of you are overly critical. I personally find the Tent 1 blog posts enjoyable.

Jumbo
03-05-2008, 08:19 AM
I can understand what Tent 1 is saying. Even though the article doesn't explicitly take a shot at Duke's fans, they imply the behavior is borderline abusive by including it in an article titled "Over the Top: Extreme vulgarity and taunting by college basketball fans this season raise the question: How much is too much? For schools and conferences, it's time to act." Wouldn't you be offended if your clever cheer (I personally think the Maryland graduation signs were clever and not a cheap shot) was included in such an article?!? It's not that there were swipes of the Cameron Crazies in the article, it's the fact that it was even included in the article (with a picture and a brief mention) at all when the supposed purpose of the article is to give examples of over the top fan behavior that is offensive.

I'm sorry, this is just driving me nuts. No, I wouldn't be angry, because I'd understand the context. The writer did not call Duke's behavior boorish. The writer used it as an example of the difficulty of deciding where to draw the line. Just because it's mentioned in the same article as the stuff Oregon fans did to Kevin Love does not equate the two acts. If I write a story about places to get great sandwiches and say "Chains like Subway and Quiznos try to compete with traditional delis, but fail on all counts," I'm not saying that Subway or Quiznos have good sandwiches, regardless of that being the subject of the article.

Bluedog
03-05-2008, 08:34 AM
I'm sorry, this is just driving me nuts. No, I wouldn't be angry, because I'd understand the context. The writer did not call Duke's behavior boorish. The writer used it as an example of the difficulty of deciding where to draw the line. Just because it's mentioned in the same article as the stuff Oregon fans did to Kevin Love does not equate the two acts. If I write a story about places to get great sandwiches and say "Chains like Subway and Quiznos try to compete with traditional delis, but fail on all counts," I'm not saying that Subway or Quiznos have good sandwiches, regardless of that being the subject of the article.

I definitely understand your point and agree with your assessment of the author's intent. It's just that many people are stupid or lazy or don't have much time and just glance at the article. From that, they'd see Duke students included in an article with that title. But I understand that this is somewhat of a poor argument since people who don't fully read the article shouldn't expect to understand its contents. I'm just saying I can understand both sides of the coin. To each his own.... Cheers!

RPS
03-05-2008, 08:55 AM
I'm sorry, this is just driving me nuts.Moe grist for the mill here (http://www.thebrushback.com/threat_full.htm) (heh, heh). Oh, and I'm with you, Jumbo....

devil84
03-05-2008, 09:45 AM
I think that the average, level-headed fan (which may be an oxymoron :)) who reads that article online will see that Duke's example is left as an exercise for the reader to question whether it's over the line. Here is the exact quote:


Some of the same conditions that make college basketball so popular-an intimate atmosphere, passionate crowds, heated rivalries -- can also create a volatile situation when fans cross the line. But what is that line? When Duke's Cameron Crazies donned caps and gowns on Feb. 13 and held up signs reading MARYLAND BASKETBALL: FEAR THE CLASSROOM, was it a creative dig at their rival's ACC-lowest graduation rate or a boorish put-down?

The average, level-headed fan will smile and note Duke students score high for cleverness, particularly in contrast to the abusive and hateful examples mentioned. The same average, level-headed fan would then be left to wonder why they didn't show pictures of these same abusive situations cited in the article (and being an average fan, they will note such pictures have been published before, so it's not that the content of signs or actions of fans requires censorship).

However, not all fans fall into the "average and level-headed." These are:

- The residents of Tent 1 & Tent 2. These above average fans are cited as examples and pictured under a caption referencing abusive fans. Their actions are not cited specifically as attaining the "clever" status; rather it is left ambiguous in the text (see quote, above). Their picture appears on the next page, with the following caption:


Duke's Cameron Crazies donned caps and gowns to mock Maryland's ACC-lowest graduation rate.

The text of the article next to the picture states this:


"One fan said, 'I wish you would die.' Another said, 'I hope you break your leg. Don't come to Illinois territory,' " Gordon says. "I thought it was crazy, but there was nothing I could do about it. Thousands of people were writing stuff like that. I knew they were going to get on my parents and throw stuff, which they did."

Yes, I think they can be unhappy, even angry. It's not flattering, as it allows (encourages?) the reader to lump the Duke creative dig (or boorish put-down, should you side with their other characterization) with the threatening, physically and verbally abusive actions at other venues cited in the article.

IMHO, Tent 1's blog is an appropriately humorous response to their article, written in the college vernacular. I enjoyed it.

- Duke haters. These people are not level-headed. ANY mention of Duke in an article entitled "Over the top" is immediate fodder. Doesn't even matter what it is. It could present that same issue as a shining example of "something creative but clean, devastating but decent, mean but wholesome, witty but forceful but G-rated for television" (in the words of our own Uncle Terry), but the shining example would be discarded by detractors as a single deviant datapoint in a whole body of work, or simply ignored. These people's minds will not be changed.

- Casual readers. These are the ones who are likely to innocently perpetuate negative connotations about the Crazies. These people clicked on the link to get to the article because of some interesting lead and barely skimmed the article and looked at the pictures. While these people may be average, level-headed fans, they assumed they'd get the point of the article by reading the first paragraph, skimming the rest, and assuming that the pictures/captions pull out the highlights of the story. A fair assumption, IMHO. Since all three online pictures feature Duke, the logical conclusion is that Duke is the main problem. The reality is that the Duke example is one that presents something that could straddle that line, while there are many fans that are crossing the line to abusive and threatening. The pictures placed on the website do not convey that, and SI is mischaracterizing its own article.

These pictures show taunting of a Duke player (which I thought was pretty creative -- or a least a ripoff of things we've done in Cameron that I enjoyed -- until I read the last line of the Wanted poster. Citing "public douchebaggery" is juvenile and doesn't relate at all to the incident), a game-action photo in Cameron where the fans are simply watching the action, and a photo of Duke fans mocking Maryland. It does NOT illustrate the vicious abuse of Kevin Love or Eric Gordon cited in the article. On just the first page, the schools called out are Memphis, UAB, Oregon, and Illinois. Pictures?

OK, maybe the print version has it. But I won't see it until I go to the doctor's office in about six months. But the online article stands alone. I don't think it's asking too much of SI to choose photographs that support the described over the top behavior. The ones they chose sure don't.

MulletMan
03-05-2008, 10:12 AM
I'm sorry, this is just driving me nuts. No, I wouldn't be angry, because I'd understand the context. The writer did not call Duke's behavior boorish. The writer used it as an example of the difficulty of deciding where to draw the line. Just because it's mentioned in the same article as the stuff Oregon fans did to Kevin Love does not equate the two acts. If I write a story about places to get great sandwiches and say "Chains like Subway and Quiznos try to compete with traditional delis, but fail on all counts," I'm not saying that Subway or Quiznos have good sandwiches, regardless of that being the subject of the article.


Ah-HA! But here's the problem, Jumbo... the author of that article asked "Where do you draw the line?" but never answered the question. He judt kept listing off different instances of fan behavior, but implied that all of it was over the line. I mean c'mon... he lumped the grad rate stuff and the UNC fan pics of G (funny as h**l, BTW) in with death-threats left on Love's cell phone and people throwing things at Gordon's family. At no point does he draw a distinction. I think that's where the problem lies.

Jumbo
03-05-2008, 10:20 AM
Ah-HA! But here's the problem, Jumbo... the author of that article asked "Where do you draw the line?" but never answered the question. He judt kept listing off different instances of fan behavior, but implied that all of it was over the line. I mean c'mon... he lumped the grad rate stuff and the UNC fan pics of G (funny as h**l, BTW) in with death-threats left on Love's cell phone and people throwing things at Gordon's family. At no point does he draw a distinction. I think that's where the problem lies.

No, he didn't. The grad rate stuff was lumped in with the Deron Washington/Paulus taunting. That's it.
I had originally read the print version. I don't know if that influences my thinking, but what you said, Monsieur Mullet, is not correct.

DukeDevil
03-05-2008, 10:40 AM
I guess I can see what the new tent 1-ers are saying, but it still seems a bit of an overreaction. I think everyone is sensitive to SI, and with good reason, for their much displayed anti-dukitism. Keeping that in mind, I think it's hard to write an article about fan behavior without somehow mentioning Duke, we're so prevalent and there is just so much media access to photographs/incidents/etc. out there involving Duke just because we are on TV so much. Consider it an Homage.

PS: even though I hate UNC (GTHC GTH!) and think the whole gerald/hansblahblah incident was overblown...the "assault, battery, public douchbaggery" thing made me chuckle. I'm lowering my humor standards here, but it was a little funny.

Wander
03-05-2008, 10:44 AM
Even the DBR boards are hating on us. *shakes head*

Oh god. You guys have really done it now. I warned you all earlier in this thread. The boards are now completely in danger of having a Tent 1 blog entry written about them. It's over...

jlear
03-05-2008, 10:51 AM
No, he didn't. The grad rate stuff was lumped in with the Deron Washington/Paulus taunting. That's it.
I had originally read the print version. I don't know if that influences my thinking, but what you said, Monsieur Mullet, is not correct.

Jumbo, what are your thoughts on the photo blog?

I think SI did draw the line of all the behavior they mention as being out of line when in the first online version having a photo blog "Abusive College Hoops Fans (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0802/campus.fan.abuse/content.14.html)" attached. Unless I am overly sensitive and being abusive is a positive.

AwesomelyRBD!
03-05-2008, 10:52 AM
Oh god. You guys have really done it now. I warned you all earlier in this thread. The boards are now completely in danger of having a Tent 1 blog entry written about them. It's over...

Hey, you forgot the part when I said we would get over it. Jeez, be a little sensitive, I'm still nursing my pain here... ;)

CathyCA
03-05-2008, 10:53 AM
Hey, Tent 1--I think you guys are awesome! You are clever and funny. Keep up the good work. Enjoy today's game and stay healthy for Saturday's game.

This old alumna wishes that she could join in your fun this week. . .

Jumbo
03-05-2008, 11:00 AM
Jumbo, what are your thoughts on the photo blog?

I think SI did draw the line of all the behavior they mention as being out of line when in the first online version having a photo blog "Abusive College Hoops Fans (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0802/campus.fan.abuse/content.14.html)" attached. Unless I am overly sensitive and being abusive is a positive.

There were 14 photos. The were of the Crazies. Two were of Indiana fans. Two were of UNC fans. Two were of Memphis fans. I don't see much of a problem.

Jumbo
03-05-2008, 11:01 AM
I guess I can see what the new tent 1-ers are saying, but it still seems a bit of an overreaction. I think everyone is sensitive to SI, and with good reason, for their much displayed anti-dukitism. Keeping that in mind, I think it's hard to write an article about fan behavior without somehow mentioning Duke, we're so prevalent and there is just so much media access to photographs/incidents/etc. out there involving Duke just because we are on TV so much. Consider it an Homage.

PS: even though I hate UNC (GTHC GTH!) and think the whole gerald/hansblahblah incident was overblown...the "assault, battery, public douchbaggery" thing made me chuckle. I'm lowering my humor standards here, but it was a little funny.


S.I. is anti-Duke? Since when? Was that huge feature on "The Duke Way" a couple of years ago anti-Duke?

jlear
03-05-2008, 11:05 AM
There were 14 photos. The were of the Crazies. Two were of Indiana fans. Two were of UNC fans. Two were of Memphis fans. I don't see much of a problem.

Do you agree with SI that they are all abusive?

AwesomelyRBD!
03-05-2008, 11:05 AM
I could make an impassioned defense of our tent here, but instead I will say: Dude. Jumbo. Calm down!!!

Like for real, it's just a blog entry.

yeesh, the Carolina game is on Saturday. It's going to be AWESOME

pfrduke
03-05-2008, 11:12 AM
Do you agree with SI that they are all abusive?

Did SI say they were all abusive? There were at least two that very clearly were not - the "Nifong is a UNC graduate" sign, and the Krzyzewski-Count von Count "1-2-3-4 losses" sign.

jlear
03-05-2008, 11:14 AM
Did SI say they were all abusive? There were at least two that very clearly were not - the "Nifong is a UNC graduate" sign, and the Krzyzewski-Count von Count "1-2-3-4 losses" sign.

Yes the title of the photo blog above every picture says"Abusive College Hoops Fans".

DukeDevil
03-05-2008, 11:32 AM
S.I. is anti-Duke? Since when? Was that huge feature on "The Duke Way" a couple of years ago anti-Duke?

Never been torn down by a moderator before... I feel like I'm finally a member of this board.

Perhaps I should have said "as many here seems to feel, SI has an anti Duke bias." I haven't read too many SI articles but a few seemed to bash on Duke.

_Gary
03-05-2008, 11:42 AM
Jumbo, I may be wrong but I think some of this is cumulative. You are only taking that one article into account, while I think Tent 1 and others are looking at the bigger picture. Many of us feel the media (not just SI) have taken too many shots at Duke just because we are Duke. That's a part of what the blog was responding too, they just used the SI as a good jumping off spot. Again, I may be wrong on that point but I do think you have to consider more than just that one article in this discussion. There's a much bigger picture that adds to the feeling of being dumped on.

Just my two cents.


Gary

Exiled_Devil
03-05-2008, 11:43 AM
There were 14 photos. The were of the Crazies. Two were of Indiana fans. Two were of UNC fans. Two were of Memphis fans. I don't see much of a problem.

And this one was funny, even though it was at our expense:

http://i.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0802/campus.fan.abuse/images/73455_02.jpg

Ders24
03-05-2008, 11:52 AM
Oh god. You guys have really done it now. I warned you all earlier in this thread. The boards are now completely in danger of having a Tent 1 blog entry written about them. It's over...

So much hate. Everyone here is on the same side.

Duvall
03-05-2008, 11:57 AM
And this one was funny, even though it was at our expense:

Well, it's doubly funny because they were wrong.

I don't really understand the criticism of the student's post. The post was a bit sensitive, but it didn't strike me as over the top. Writing a snippy blog post may not be a necessary response to an article that connected your antics, however tenuously, with death threats and homophobic slurs, but it's certainly an *understandable* reaction.

EarlJam
03-05-2008, 12:14 PM
I personally do not think SI is on the "Attack Duke" train, but even if they are.....

WHO CARES?

Doesn't matter if they love us, hate us, or whatever. Worst case scenario would be apathy. As the adage goes, "Any press is good press."

Someone posted earlier something to the effect of, "If you're gonna dish it out, be strong enough to take it."

Word.

I personally thought the article was fine; and that nearly all the pictures were hilarious.

See the one on Bruce Pearl? "Bruce Pearl is half the man Pat Summit is?"

Shoot me down. Call me whatever. But you all know that's funny/clever!

-EarlJam

Ders24
03-05-2008, 12:15 PM
See the one on Bruce Pearl? "Bruce Pearl is half the man Pat Summit is?"

Shoot me down. Call me whatever. But you all know that's funny/clever!

-EarlJam

That poster was/is hilarious.

Jumbo
03-05-2008, 12:24 PM
I could make an impassioned defense of our tent here, but instead I will say: Dude. Jumbo. Calm down!!!

Like for real, it's just a blog entry.

yeesh, the Carolina game is on Saturday. It's going to be AWESOME

I'm very calm. But if you want people to read your blog entry, you need to be able to handle the reaction.

EarlJam
03-05-2008, 12:34 PM
I'm very calm. But if you want people to read your blog entry, you need to be able to handle the reaction.

And now we turn to a segment of the show we call, "Duke arguments that couldn't happen in 1992."

Not sure of any of your real names, but flash back to the early nineties. You're walking the grounds of Duke University. Future Man walks up to each of you and says:

"Man, Jumbo and AwesomelyRBD! are having quite the Message Board discussion regarding Tent1's Blog on the SI Web article!"

With modern technology, we can really argue about everything in so many ways!

Remember when The Chronicle put out that hardcopy "report card" on Duke's players and Coach K went ballistic? The Internet and all its capabilities makes stuff like that look like Pong vs. Wii.

Sorry, I just find it all fascinating. Anyone else remember the Report Card debacle?

-EJ

Wander
03-05-2008, 12:41 PM
I don't think it was humorous, and I don't think it represents the Crazies (or Duke) well at all.

This is exactly the point. This is why I get pissed off whenever DBR puts some idiotic idea on the front page, like when it was suggested Duke students protest ESPN by turning their backs when the camera was pointed at them. DBR has the right and freedom to say whatever stupid thing it wants, but for better or worse the reality is that this website does represent Duke fans to some degree or another, and it'd be nice to see it take that as a responsibility to represent Duke fans well (I think mostly it does).

Same thing with tenters - whether it's good or bad tenters do represent the fan base somewhat. Like everyone else they have the freedom to say stupid things but it would be nice if they didn't act like your average ignorant fans who interpret any comment about Duke that isn't overtly positive as "hate."

DukeFan08
03-05-2008, 01:32 PM
As a fellow tenter, I just wanted to let y'all know that tent 1 doesn't really represent the crazies very well this year. In fact, they seem to have isolated themselves from the rest of kville for most of the season. So please don't think that all of us are as sensitive to an SI article as they are. Though we all do share the same passion and excitement for Duke basketball, and we are ready to wreck havoc upon Tyler Hanztravel's ears on Saturday. GTHC.

21fish
03-05-2008, 03:27 PM
In fact, they seem to have isolated themselves from the rest of kville for most of the season.

as a third year tenter, i wanted to vouch for tent 1 and say the reason they may seem isolated is because tent 1 this year was put together from people who were always at the front of every line for every game last year. so they are all upperclassmen (minus 1 freshman), and everybody already knew each other and knew that the whole tent shares the desire to be front and center for every home game, obviously including the carolina game.

and also - kville just IS isolated. the top 3-5 tents all know each other (from bonding in december when nobody else is around), but after that it depends on who is in your tent, if you're all freshmen, etc etc. i remember thinking it was hard to talk to new people in k-ville as a freshmen, and i still think its hard unless you happen to be giving out free food or something. i met new people usually waiting in line for other games, not just from wandering around and introducing myself to other tenters. anyway, i love kville and hate to see tents bashing on each other. any tenters out there, you should try talking to the tentone-ers. they love to give kville-related adivce, they arent trying to be exclusive, and most of them wont bite ;)

gthc...gth.

Jumbo
03-05-2008, 03:49 PM
Okay, folks, let's not let this turn this into tent-on-tent bashing. Cool?

ugadevil
03-05-2008, 03:54 PM
See the one on Bruce Pearl? "Bruce Pearl is half the man Pat Summit is?"

Shoot me down. Call me whatever. But you all know that's funny/clever!



I also laughed at that one. I wonder if Bruce Pearl will begin to threaten to cancel series with teams who have fans that make signs like that?

detule
03-05-2008, 05:09 PM
Okay, folks, let's not let this turn this into tent-on-tent bashing. Cool?

I actually thought this was a positive direction for the thread to develop in. I mean seriously, who doesn't want the dirty behind the scenes factoids about k-ville this year, that are bound to emerge in "the on-line tent wars" (I am hoping the name will catch on.)

Since the spring cleaning thread warned against using subtle sarcasm, I will make it unsubtle by declaring this message sarcastic.

MonitorMom
03-05-2008, 06:58 PM
Bloggers must be excused if their post is not worthy of a Pulitzer. Keep in mind they are cold, hungry, tired, muddy and in danger of failing their midterms (from too much attention to basketball and too little attention to classes) and then having to tell their parents about it next week over Spring break.




They pray for grace......

77devil
03-05-2008, 08:28 PM
I'm sorry, this is just driving me nuts. No, I wouldn't be angry, because I'd understand the context. The writer did not call Duke's behavior boorish. The writer used it as an example of the difficulty of deciding where to draw the line. Just because it's mentioned in the same article as the stuff Oregon fans did to Kevin Love does not equate the two acts.

The author chose a bad example to illustrate where the line is. The use of clever phrases by the Crazies to illustrate a fact does not come close to approaching the line.


I'm very calm.

In the many years I have participated in this forum, and I've been here from the beginning, I have rarely found this to be the case when you are challenged.

miramar
03-05-2008, 09:53 PM
As a Duke grad and tent 1 parent, I can assure you that this bunch is passionate and dedicated, so we need to chill a bit and support them. After all, who else is clever enough to hold up signs in Spanish that even the churlish Greivis Vazquez had to laugh at?

I am glad that SI brought up the question of abusive fans, but after seeing real abuse when Duke played at the University of Miami recently, I don't think the crazies should have been mentioned at all. As you might have heard, when Greg Paulus was fouled while attempting a three, the entire student section (standing right behind the backboard he was shooting at) started chanting "F.U. Paulus" during the first and third free throws. People all around me were surprised and asking, "Are they saying what I think they're saying?" They were.

When it started, Haith should have gotten up immediately to quiet the crowd, and since he didn't, President Shalala should have. Instead, the abuse was allowed to continue, and it wasn't until after the third free throw that the public address announcer finally reminded the crowd that the university did not allow abusive comments by fans. That would have been appropriate previously, when they chanted "BS," but at that point it was too little too late.

Jumbo
03-05-2008, 09:54 PM
I actually thought this was a positive direction for the thread to develop in. I mean seriously, who doesn't want the dirty behind the scenes factoids about k-ville this year, that are bound to emerge in "the on-line tent wars" (I am hoping the name will catch on.)

Since the spring cleaning thread warned against using subtle sarcasm, I will make it unsubtle by declaring this message sarcastic.

The sarcasm was quite clear and hilarious. I still prefer "tent-on-tent violence," though.

Jumbo
03-05-2008, 09:56 PM
The author chose a bad example to illustrate where the line is. The use of clever phrases by the Crazies to illustrate a fact does not come close to approaching the line.



In the many years I have participated in this forum, and I've been here from the beginning, I have rarely found this to be the case when you are challenged.

I can assure you that you have little understanding of my pulse rate. Also, please read the "Spring Cleaning" thread. We want to stay away from this type of stuff.
The author's use of one example from the Crazies was not wrong at all. What is clever to one man is cruel to another. That's why he chose it.

watzone
03-05-2008, 10:19 PM
I am the Watcher! I see and remember everything. Pity the poor chronic that grades the Devils.

Tenters beware! I will be out and about campus the next couple of days. If you want a group shot pic and plug on my site, post number here or pm me. I may even bring the court jester known as CTG.


And now we turn to a segment of the show we call, "Duke arguments that couldn't happen in 1992."

Not sure of any of your real names, but flash back to the early nineties. You're walking the grounds of Duke University. Future Man walks up to each of you and says:

"Man, Jumbo and AwesomelyRBD! are having quite the Message Board discussion regarding Tent1's Blog on the SI Web article!"

With modern technology, we can really argue about everything in so many ways!

Remember when The Chronicle put out that hardcopy "report card" on Duke's players and Coach K went ballistic? The Internet and all its capabilities makes stuff like that look like Pong vs. Wii.

Sorry, I just find it all fascinating. Anyone else remember the Report Card debacle?

-EJ

Channing
03-06-2008, 10:11 AM
(1) I dont think anyone can really expect an article to be written about college basketball fans, addressing the topic of when fans go too far, and not expect to see the Cameron Crazies in there somewhere. When I first read the thread I didnt find it offensive (and my anti-Duke sense is pretty strong). Even if someone just looks at the picture, and they see a Duke student holding up a sign that says "Fear the Classroom," they would have to be a complete lemming to think that is over the proverbial line.

(2) I have no problem with the blog response. It's tent 1's blog and they can write what they want. However, when I read the blog post my initial response was that it was just pouring fuel on the fire. The primary dig at Duke fans are that they are whinny elitists who think they are just the meat AND the potatoes. In no way do I think that is valid (I was a proud Cameron Crazy for 4 years), but the blog post did nothing to temper that view.

KintheVille
03-06-2008, 01:14 PM
I'm going to do something that may not be the smartest thing I've ever done but oh well, this is getting ridiculous. I wrote that blog entry. And I will admit that after looking back on it and looking at all this conversation it does sound a little crazed and whiny.

My initial (over)reaction was to the photo gallery of abusive fans. I personally don't view the Crazies as abusive when you compare them to many other fan sections around the country. To see us featured multiple times in there - and for what we thought was an awesome dig at MD based on fact - I got a little upset. Also, I believe the photos accompanying the online article might have changed and I know I saw the earliest version - but when they are talking about all sorts of abusive and vulgar actions in the text, they also represented that text with pictures - and I didn't think our picture from the MD game was the best choice.

I wrote the entry as a fun rant - I like to do that. I can assure you I'm capable of proper grammar and style when I write papers - but this wasn't a paper I was turning in - it's a blog. I understood the dramatic tone I was taking but didn't realize how strongly people would react to it - perhaps I went too far in my rant but I often find I get carried away when I start writing something like that. So sorry if I riled your feathers; SI riled mine and it appears more than it should have – I’m over it.

As for tent 1 - we're proud of being tent one; our senior captain especially, who has been tent 2 for the past 3 years. Yes, we've been obnoxious about it and we likely could have benefited from toning it down - but we're just a group of really good friends who have fun together. We're not so exclusive and if it appears that way it's likely because we enjoy each others' company so much and only had the chance to really get to know the top few tents during pre-blue that it seems that way. If you've ever tented with a group of your friends you can find it will make or break friendships - and sometimes it can be better to band with people who are more acquaintances than anything else. But we found that our friendship has gotten stronger. We're all avid fans like everyone else in KVille who has decided to brave the long and sometimes cold season (the warm weather has been great this year however) and while KVille is an event all its own, we're all really there for one thing: helping to beat the tar holes.

Maybe its too late to be writing this defense and even apology but better late than never. So here it is: I'm sorry that some people have come to hate us. While I'm not willing to accept full responsibility for that I'll take some of the blame - we could have and should have toned down the obnoxiousness of our tent 1 pride. We could have mingled in the late-night party scene more - perhaps tent 1 next year should place one of its tents in the center of KVille so as to not be as isolated as they can become on the fringes. But tenting is essentially over, so those of you tenting on the boards - let's just all have fun the next 2 nights for p-checks and lets all channel any pride or animosity into making the floor of Cameron shake and the decibels reach unbearable levels on Saturday night.

See, I have a tendency to ramble. It’s perhaps a fatal flaw.

GTHC

tbyers11
03-06-2008, 01:48 PM
I hope not to re-ignite the debate about whether the layout of the original SI article lumped the Crazies in with Oregon's homosexual slurs directed at Kevin Love, but Grant Wahl's mailbag (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/grant_wahl/03/06/the.bag/1.html) today re-addresses the fan behavior issue and answers some e-mail from fans.

I think his answers to questions are pretty good. I particularly liked his response to an e-mail from a man (from Lexington, KY :D ) about the Cameron Crazies being held responsible for other teams fans personal attacks on players. He responded that "Duke fans are no angels, but should they be held responsible for Oregon fans who are unable to match their creativity and resort to profane chants?"

This quote really nails the essence of this issue for me. Everyone has different opinions of what crosses the line, but I loved majoring in smartass for a couple of months out of the year without getting extremely personal or profane.

Also, I was at the Loren Woods Wake game that Charles from Philly's e-mail mentions. While Chris Carrawell may have came out to address the students before the game also, I distinctly remember Coach K coming out before the game asking the students to lay off Woods because of his friendship with his high school teammate, Carrawell, and because his issue (he was having some psychological issues, IIRC) wasn't something that should be mocked by opposing fans.

pfrduke
03-06-2008, 03:21 PM
Also, I was at the Loren Woods Wake game that Charles from Philly's e-mail mentions. While Chris Carrawell may have came out to address the students before the game also, I distinctly remember Coach K coming out before the game asking the students to lay off Woods because of his friendship with his high school teammate, Carrawell, and because his issue (he was having some psychological issues, IIRC) wasn't something that should be mocked by opposing fans.

Before the St. John's game in '00, K made the same request regarding Erick Barkley and prep school/qualification issues (I believe - don't remember 100%).

Chitowndevil
03-06-2008, 04:36 PM
Before the St. John's game in '00, K made the same request regarding Erick Barkley and prep school/qualification issues (I believe - don't remember 100%).

I do remember--Barkley was being investigated by the NCAA for eligibility issues. The whole thing was really shaky, and in fact the Crazies actually chanted "Stop the Witch Hunt" at several points during the game (which was nationally televised) including while Barkley was at the free throw line. Several days later Barkley wrote a very nice, sincere letter that appeared in the Chronicle thanking the Cameron Crazies for their support. I also remember the Loren Woods game referenced in the third letter in Grant Wahl's mailbag. I spent eight years (undergrad and Ph.D.) as a Cameron Crazy, and though nothing comes close to Coach K's 500th, I actually remember those two games fondly (even though we lost to St. Johns!).

As for the original article, I did have a problem with Wahl's talking about the Crazies ridiculing Maryland within a few sentences of the shameful actions by Indiana and Oregon fans this season. That, along with the fact that three of the pictures with the article were Duke-related, seemed a little too close to accusing Duke fans of similar behavior. But I agree where the line should be drawn is part of the point, and after reading Wahl's responses in his mailbag (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/grant_wahl/03/06/the.bag/1.html), I'm convinced he wasn't just idly bashing Duke to draw readers. Of course, I may be biased since one of the letters was mine ;)

Atlanta Duke
03-06-2008, 04:43 PM
With regard to Grant Wahl's responses to questions on the SI fan behavior article in his online mailbag this week, this is an excerpt from Wahl's view of the Crazies:

But opposing coaches have diverging views on the Crazies. One coach of a Top 20 team told SI that he thinks Duke's fans are the most foul-mouthed and distasteful that he's seen, "but then they're held up as the best ones." But then Roy Williams told me, "I think Duke several years ago did some things to get their crowd back across the line. I thought they did a nice job of it." At UNC and at Kansas, Williams has dealt with two of the most vocal rival fan groups in the nation: Duke's Crazies and Missouri's Antlers. ("Every year I got a call at 3 o'clock in the morning for the two or three nights before we played Missouri," he says.) But Ol' Roy also credits administrators at Duke and Missouri for taking an active role in improving their hardcore fans' behavior. "I think they should be applauded for that," he says. "And this is coming from a North Carolina/Kansas guy."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/grant_wahl/03/06/the.bag/1.html

Not surprising Ol' Roy gives a backhanded compliment. As for the less favorable comment from the "coach of a top 20 team" it sounds like classic Gary, but the Terps are not in the top 20. Any guesses as to the coach who is not a big fan of the atmosphere at Cameron?

TheTrain
03-06-2008, 05:02 PM
I'm guessing Rick Barnes

jlear
03-06-2008, 07:50 PM
I'm guessing Pat Summitt.