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DukePA
03-02-2008, 08:52 AM
Okay, break out your hatchel voo doo dolls and get to work. I've already PM'd EarlJam with this request :) Seriously, I hope the women are ready to play a cohesive game and that they flat out bring it!

GO DUKE!!

gadzooks
03-02-2008, 10:45 AM
OK, I'll confess I'm nervous about this game, but I'm throwing down all the anti-Sylvia mojo I can muster and hope our ladies are ready for this! C'mon, you can do it! GTHC! GO BLUE DEVILS!

CameronBornAndBred
03-02-2008, 11:01 AM
We showed against Tenn, Md. and UNC that we can play, we just need to prove that we can close it out. We've done it once before this year Vs. Rutgers. As long as we don't keep missing so many inside shots and losing those second chance points we'll be ok. Take it to em ladies! GO DUKE!!

godukecom
03-02-2008, 12:37 PM
I going to need a long chlorox bath or something, because i am descending into carmicHELL to see the ladies play in person. I'm in the duke section, but I have a feeling im going to have that icky-I-cant-believe-I-was-in-that-baby-blue-inferno. At least it ain't the nose dome; no rediculous banners in carmichael.

I broke out the new duke hoodie for tonight's game... I have a good feeling about it. I know there is no better feeling than walking out after a Duke win over there, but I have some bad memories from leaving Kenan about 3 months ago... and leaving wallace wad about 15 months ago (which really was nothing more than kenan with a bunch of Duke fans; still tons of unc fans there).

GO TO HELL carolina!

CameronBornAndBred
03-02-2008, 12:56 PM
CREATE THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PRO-DUKE SIGN THAT YOU CAN THINK OF!!
Have a blast in hell, I hope you and your hoodie will us to victory. Some of us local clamdiggers are getting together to watch, but we need all the onsite support we can get. I took my mom to last year's game in Cameron, it was just as great of an environment as any men's game I've been to. But on the inside, it was the right color blue, too..lol.

godukerocks
03-02-2008, 05:22 PM
41-23. Ick.

heyman25
03-02-2008, 05:31 PM
Duke women's team is really out of sync. I heard the announcers say Coach Palumbo stressed composure before the game. As usual a total lack of composure. They need to recruit some women that can make plays that are available. This season they got 20 wins,but they have fallen apart when they see Carolina Blue thus far. Don't expect them to advance very far in the NCAA tourney,but hope I am wrong.

roywhite
03-02-2008, 05:39 PM
I've watched some of the first half, and this is really not a good performance at all by Duke. They look over-matched vs Carolina in terms of speed and quickness. The Duke backcourt in particular is struggling. I believe veteran players Abby Waner and Wannisha Smith are scoreless at half-time, and have several turnovers. Is the team packing it in for the season?

heyman25
03-02-2008, 05:53 PM
I don't know what is wrong with this team. They need to start over. Fundamentals are completely lacking..

throatybeard
03-02-2008, 05:58 PM
Well, they've roughed up everyone in the conference not named MD and UNC, and they're going to finish the RS 21-8. I fail to see how we need to "start over."

DevilCastDownfromDurham
03-02-2008, 05:59 PM
Something seems different from the last few seasons. I just can't quite put my finger on it . . .

Duvall
03-02-2008, 06:01 PM
Well, they've roughed up everyone in the conference not named MD and UNC, and they're going to finish the RS 21-8. I fail to see how we need to "start over."

Misleading, given the fact that the rest of the conference blows ^$%^$%^$%.

heyman25
03-02-2008, 06:04 PM
Don't worry Throaty beard I"ll put on my Duke Blue shades . This team is wonderful They will be 21 and 8.

godukerocks
03-02-2008, 06:12 PM
Something seems different from the last few seasons. I just can't quite put my finger on it . . .

Little things...not being able to make that pass, below average from long range, free throws, lapses on defense, etc...

Yes, we have beaten everyone in the conference not named unc and Maryland. But in the tournament, those are the types of teams your going to have to beat.

And this game's really getting out of hand now.

heyman25
03-02-2008, 06:30 PM
Well they only lost by 31 pts.:confused:

Duvall
03-02-2008, 06:34 PM
I don't know what is wrong with this team. They need to start over.

This *is* starting over.

Thank you, Joe Alleva.

Wander
03-02-2008, 06:47 PM
Well, they've roughed up everyone in the conference not named MD and UNC, and they're going to finish the RS 21-8. I fail to see how we need to "start over."

You're being dishonest. There's no parity in women's basketball. It's the national title contenders and everyone else, and we're clearly in the "everyone else" category. We may not be as awful as some people are making us out to be but there's some serious problems with the team/program right now.

gadzooks
03-02-2008, 07:12 PM
You're being dishonest. There's no parity in women's basketball. It's the national title contenders and everyone else, and we're clearly in the "everyone else" category. We may not be as awful as some people are making us out to be but there's some serious problems with the team/program right now.Exactly. The women's ACC is not as strong overall as the men's, so for MD and UNC to be the only teams we can't beat isn't saying that much. And do not forget that we got beat by 31 points. That's horrible. Humiliating. I've been very willing to give the benefit of the doubt before now, but this game was AWFUL and I don't have a lot of optimism for the ACC or NCAA tournaments at this point.

godukecom
03-02-2008, 07:52 PM
pathetic. just pathetic today.
I almost lost it when the unc student section started to call for the crazy towel guy
I was in the section behind the Duke bench; P seemed mad as hell out there. Those who are saying (both here and on TDD< but mostly on TDD) that P wasn't trying didnt watch the game from the stands as I did. P was extremely angry with the effort (or lack thereof) on the court today.

I'm not sure what is wrong here, but I fear we may be in a decline. Throaty, we are winning those other games on the leftover talent from G. once G's last class is gone in 3 years, I doubt we will win those games. P's offense is so damn frustrating. and no, I disagree, we are not "fine." Everything is far from "fine."

Gadzooks is 100&#37; correct; there is no parity in womens basketball. The glory days of DWB are now wearing high heels in texas, where the longhornes were COACHED to a victory over a much more talented OU team.

I did see one pro-duke sign i liked from some of the students who were at the game:
"It's hot as hell in here. coincidence?"

KandG
03-02-2008, 08:11 PM
I know women's basketball isn't a very popular subject on these boards, but Gail's teams were extremely entertaining to watch and very very rarely overmatched. I was proud to have them representing Duke, and the loss to Maryland in the final game was as depressed as I've ever been about any Duke loss, men or women.

This year's team has come close to ruining my enjoyment of the women's game, and has been completely unwatchable at times -- today's effort was a massive, massive train wreck. I fear we may be seeing the women's version of Doh...except even Doh at least managed to win with players he inherited. Eventually, they quit on him -- which seems to be what's happening with this year's players with relation to Coach P.

diablesseblu
03-02-2008, 08:32 PM
^ Potd

dukegirlinsc
03-02-2008, 10:21 PM
I know women's basketball isn't a very popular subject on these boards, but Gail's teams were extremely entertaining to watch and very very rarely overmatched. I was proud to have them representing Duke, and the loss to Maryland in the final game was as depressed as I've ever been about any Duke loss, men or women.

This year's team has come close to ruining my enjoyment of the women's game, and has been completely unwatchable at times -- today's effort was a massive, massive train wreck. I fear we may be seeing the women's version of Doh...except even Doh at least managed to win with players he inherited. Eventually, they quit on him -- which seems to be what's happening with this year's players with relation to Coach P.

I agree with this 100%. This team became far from entertaining a few weeks ago for me, and tonight was the first night I've watched since. And not a great time to start watching again. :( (I've been keeping up with the women strictly via the internet.)

dukemomLA
03-02-2008, 11:59 PM
Tonight's game was agonizing, horrifying and almost unwatchable.

I have been a HUGE supporter of this team. I also loved what Coach P had to say (and her actions around campus) when she was hired. She embraced the student body in a way that Coach G did not, the team seemed cohesive and in full support of their new coach. Attendance was way up, etc. etc.

Then the wheels started to come off the cart. It's been a train wreck. BUT I'd love us to find a way to be supportive and constructive. This team is incredibly talented............. so what should they do? Can Abby Waner right her own ship and bring the team with her? Can Chante and Joy or another take the bull by the horns?

The way they played today, a good HS team could have given a run for their money. It pains me -- and makes me mad.

cspan37421
03-03-2008, 05:43 AM
Just been following the women's team by the scoreboard and the stories about one of the players taking a surprise leave of absence. I am saddened but hope that somehow their competitiveness against the best teams can turn around later this month. It is interesting that Texas is faring no better under Coach G. Anyone want to say "do over?"

Where the team is this year under the new coach, compared to last year, reminds me of that quip about how you can make a small fortune in winemaking. [You start with a large fortune.]

blueprofessor
03-03-2008, 06:37 AM
...shared . They said the elite teams are scoring machines, with the exception of Rutgers.
Coach G recruited the present players using the same evaluation standards as she did for her other teams over the last 10 years---that they were athletic AND would be outstanding on offense.During the last 10 years ,Duke finished either 1st or 2nd in the ACC EVERY year.That leads me to believe that the players have the talent.
A question arises: Can Coach P recruit and sign the types of top players we need to be an elite program while running the type of offense she has installed?
As there is no parity in the women's game, the top programs get the top players from a (compared to men's high school talent) diminished pool of high school talent.
If we do not recruit with the elite ,as Coach G could and did, we are in for a serious decline, I fear.
One of the pleasures in life for 10 years was watching the Duke team dominate other squads.It has been painful to watch the women this year.Really painful.
Best regards.:)

Duvall
03-03-2008, 06:38 AM
I am saddened but hope that somehow their competitiveness against the best teams can turn around later this month. It is interesting that Texas is faring no better under Coach G.

That's (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/recap?gameId=280440251) not really true (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/recap?gameId=280620201), especially given the relative talent on both teams.

TwoDukeTattoos
03-03-2008, 07:43 AM
As sad as it is, last night's loss was incredibly predictable. Duke women have no marquee wins this year. And many of the turnovers appear to be unforced. They simply have no flow, no rhythm. They have started 11 different lineups this year. Perhaps that says it all. I just hope that McCauley will be able to recruit as well as G did.

EKU1969
03-03-2008, 08:38 AM
would qualify as a marque win, but having said that, it is the only one. Coach P (McCallie) came into Duke with fairly impressive credentials, especially in the US Under 21 arena. She came into a program that had lost the WNPOY in Lindsay Harding and perhaps the best post presence ever at Duke in Alison Bales. As good as Chante Black, Joy Cheek, Wanisha Smith, and Abby Waner are, they had to get used to a new set of personalities on the bench and a completely different system to play under. In looking at the stats for the year, Waner is hitting 33% of 2's and 29% of 3's, that to me is a significant year long slump; Smith is 32% and 30 %, and J Thomas is 34% and 22%. Due to a series of nagging injuries, Coach P has been forced to play like 11 different starting lineups and Duke is still 21-8, 3rd in the ACC, and can make some noise in the tournaments on any given night.
Last night, however, they looked out of sync and in some cases disinterested, at best. But, to characterize what's happening at Duke with what happened with DOH, seems a bit premature and hopefully the problems, conflicts, disagreements, whatever will right themselves.
Remember, also, that Smith is the only Senior on this team (now that E. Waner has left the team) and that 7 of the remaining 11 players are Sophs and Frosh...so,I say give them a chance!

Devilsfan
03-03-2008, 09:17 AM
Good post. I think we should give them a chance although yesterday it looked like coach P was doing her best to do away with title nine.

KandG
03-03-2008, 10:08 AM
I'm a big believer in cutting first year coaches some slack...heck, I was at Duke during Coach K's first 3 seasons, so I know first hand how tough it can be on the best of coaches when they're trying to establish their stamp and struggle along the way.

But the off-court reports of dissension, and the terrible quotes from the coach after losses (essentially blaming everything on players and refusing to place any responsibility on herself) are indicative of a very troubled situation in just the first year. It's one thing for the players to have issues with on-court discipline and focus, or getting adjusted to a different style of play -- there were players on G's teams that had these issues occasionally. But the worst loss in fifteen years, to a rival that also lost two key players to graduation (Latta and Little), with a completely disinterested, disspirited effort? Much more serious.

I hope the coach can pull it together, and perhaps a major tournament run will quiet us all down. So far all the signs, though, are very, very bad.

CameronBornAndBred
03-03-2008, 11:22 AM
I agree with this 100%. This team became far from entertaining a few weeks ago for me, and tonight was the first night I've watched since. And not a great time to start watching again. :( (I've been keeping up with the women strictly via the internet.)

I've watched as many games as possible this year, they did not play with the same ability as they have recently. The UVA game was a good example of how well they CAN play vs. a good team. Unfortunately, what we saw yesterday was just about as bad as it can get. When the threes aren't there, usually they can rely on good defense to keep them in it, but it was as non existent as their inside play was.
The worst for me all year has been seeing what's not happening in the post. I've never seen so many point blank shots missed, and as stated earlier, that's just fundamentals. I know P had them in the weight room a lot, building strength, but other than Abby's arms are larger, I don't see the results. Hopefully they will pull something together for a respectable tourney run, but I don't see much happening past the sweet 16.

cspan37421
03-03-2008, 11:29 AM
As far as things not going so well for Texas, I was looking at their conf record based on an article that had them 4-9. I guess they've won 2 since. Our overall record is still better than theirs. Sorry if you think my comment is completely false. I don't think it is far off, esp. if you cut me some slack for having relied on what turned out to be a week-old article.

Saw the Coach P quotes from yesterday's debacle,

"We continued to play too fast" - didn't someone say this team was recruited by Coach G for offense firepower? Presumably an up-tempo pace?

"They've got people that come ready to play." - you might want to look under the bus, I think there are some of our players there.

Like someone said in another thread, sometimes you have to adapt your system to your players and their skills, not force your players to execute a system that isn't geared toward their strengths.

Duvall
03-03-2008, 11:33 AM
As far as things not going so well for Texas, I was looking at their conf record based on an article that had them 4-9. I guess they've won 2 since. Our overall record is still better than theirs. Sorry if you think my comment is completely false. I don't think it is far off, esp. if you cut me some slack for having relied on what turned out to be a week-old article.

Texas doesn't have nine high school All-Americans. Duke has much more talent to work with.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
03-03-2008, 11:55 AM
Saw the Coach P quotes from yesterday's debacle,

"They've got people that come ready to play." - you might want to look under the bus, I think there are some of our players there.

Yeah. Our new coach hasn't done anything in terms of on-court results to make me like her as a replacement for Gail. The bad feelings we keep hearing about from behind the scenes and practices is strike two. The fact that she has repeatedly thrown her own players under the bus in public makes it pretty hard for me to root for our HC, which has been almost as frustrating as the on-court disappointments this season.

As others have said, I'm still rooting very hard for the team, and I'd love to see us make a great FF run, but the more I see of our new coach, the more I appriciate what a talent, and a class act, Gail was.

merry
03-03-2008, 12:03 PM
Texas doesn't have nine high school All-Americans. Duke has much more talent to work with.

Texas was not ranked in the top 25 preseason; Duke was ranked #6 or #7 depending on the poll.

Duke had a good win vs Rutgers and as McCallie recently said Duke has won "the games we were supposed to win" (meaning I assume that we weren't supposed to win games against higher ranked teams like UNC, Maryland, Tennessee and UConn)

Texas has lost a fair number of games including to Tennessee early in the season but they did upset Baylor (ranked #8 at the time) last month and Oklahoma (#10) this past weekend.

Duke has finished the ACC exactly where predicted - third - so objectively it has not been a bad season. But those of us who have watched in person have seen a team certainly not performing in the manner we expected. I don't know if they are having trouble doing what McCallie wants them to do or if it's more complicated than that but it has not been fun to watch most of the time, IMO.

throatybeard
03-03-2008, 12:06 PM
Duke has finished the ACC exactly where predicted - third - so objectively it has not been a bad season.

Watch out Merry, if you say things like that, Wander might call you "dishonest."

Wander
03-03-2008, 12:45 PM
Watch out Merry, if you say things like that, Wander might call you "dishonest."

Why would I call out Merry? His post was very reasonable. I'm very sorry you lose sleep at night over me calling you dishonest. I will give you a smiley face if it helps you sleep better: :)

throatybeard
03-03-2008, 01:00 PM
Why would I call out Merry? His post was very reasonable. I'm very sorry you lose sleep at night over me calling you dishonest. I will give you a smiley face if it helps you sleep better: :)

1) Merry's not a dude.

2) I don't lose sleep over rude posts on the DBR, like yours.

diablesseblu
03-03-2008, 01:05 PM
Yeah. Our new coach hasn't done anything in terms of on-court results to make me like her as a replacement for Gail. The bad feelings we keep hearing about from behind the scenes and practices is strike two. The fact that she has repeatedly thrown her own players under the bus in public makes it pretty hard for me to root for our HC, which has been almost as frustrating as the on-court disappointments this season.

As others have said, I'm still rooting very hard for the team, and I'd love to see us make a great FF run, but the more I see of our new coach, the more I appriciate what a talent, and a class act, Gail was.


Excellent post!!

diablesseblu
03-03-2008, 01:18 PM
Yeah. Our new coach hasn't done anything in terms of on-court results to make me like her as a replacement for Gail. The bad feelings we keep hearing about from behind the scenes and practices is strike two. The fact that she has repeatedly thrown her own players under the bus in public makes it pretty hard for me to root for our HC, which has been almost as frustrating as the on-court disappointments this season.

As others have said, I'm still rooting very hard for the team, and I'd love to see us make a great FF run, but the more I see of our new coach, the more I appriciate what a talent, and a class act, Gail was.


Excellent post!!

duke98
03-03-2008, 01:59 PM
Yeah. Our new coach hasn't done anything in terms of on-court results to make me like her as a replacement for Gail. The bad feelings we keep hearing about from behind the scenes and practices is strike two. The fact that she has repeatedly thrown her own players under the bus in public makes it pretty hard for me to root for our HC, which has been almost as frustrating as the on-court disappointments this season.

As others have said, I'm still rooting very hard for the team, and I'd love to see us make a great FF run, but the more I see of our new coach, the more I appriciate what a talent, and a class act, Gail was.

I absolutely disagree with the previous poster's characterization of this as an "excellent post". It compares apples to oranges (14 years under Gail to one year under Coach P) and relies on rumors of dissent between the coach and players to prove its point. I've got news for you: I heard more of these rumors over the years of Gail's tenure than I care to repeat. I choose not to repeat them because they're just that: rumors.

I also disagree with the suggestion that Coach P has "thrown her players under the bus" for underperforming. Call me old-fashioned, but I think we need a little personal responsibility here. It's the coach's job to scout, plan, recruit, adapt and analyze in-game, and yes, in some ways, to motivate. But I think it's important to consider the possibility that this team of 18-21 year old women is reacting poorly to the change in leadership, and that they should bear some of the responsibility themselves. I'm not criticizing them for being upset by the change, but it's happened. I think they need to suck it up, motivate themselves if they have to, and do honor to that four-letter name on their uniforms.

Finally, I think that leaving a school in the lurch after they gave you the opportunity to establish yourself and your career is about the least classy thing that one can do. Just MHO.

CameronBornAndBred
03-03-2008, 02:20 PM
Yeah. Our new coach hasn't done anything in terms of on-court results to make me like her as a replacement for Gail. The bad feelings we keep hearing about from behind the scenes and practices is strike two. The fact that she has repeatedly thrown her own players under the bus in public makes it pretty hard for me to root for our HC, which has been almost as frustrating as the on-court disappointments this season.

As others have said, I'm still rooting very hard for the team, and I'd love to see us make a great FF run, but the more I see of our new coach, the more I appriciate what a talent, and a class act, Gail was.

I would have agreed with the comments about G until her exit last year, not just metaphorically, but physically. I will never shake that image of her walking off the sidelines after their loss last year. It was totally classless.

GrayHare
03-03-2008, 02:48 PM
It's the coach's job to scout, plan, recruit, adapt and analyze in-game, and yes, in some ways, to motivate.

Exactly so! When should we expect her to begin?

diablesseblu
03-03-2008, 03:04 PM
My experience as the parent of daughters, and as a former coach, prompt me to have very strong opinions of what "works" with them.

Yes, our athletes bear a responsibility to work hard and try their best. And I'm certain that Coach G could be tough on them and that there are stories to tell about her efforts to motivate them.

However, a coach talking about/denigrating the abilities of her athletes to others is simply unacceptable. A young woman and her family who choose that approach can simply play for Geno.

It is not the approach I want to see affirmed by anyone in the Duke athletic department. Have been a Duke fan for sixty years but would not my daughter to remain on the team if, in fact, there has been sea change in the way she's treated.

One's college years are too important to one's emotional and intellectual development to stay in a toxic situation out of a sense of obligation. Yes, they have a responsibility ...... as does Duke.

merry
03-03-2008, 03:24 PM
I absolutely disagree with the previous poster's characterization of this as an "excellent post". It compares apples to oranges (14 years under Gail to one year under Coach P) and relies on rumors of dissent between the coach and players to prove its point. I've got news for you: I heard more of these rumors over the years of Gail's tenure than I care to repeat. I choose not to repeat them because they're just that: rumors.

I also disagree with the suggestion that Coach P has "thrown her players under the bus" for underperforming. Call me old-fashioned, but I think we need a little personal responsibility here. It's the coach's job to scout, plan, recruit, adapt and analyze in-game, and yes, in some ways, to motivate. But I think it's important to consider the possibility that this team of 18-21 year old women is reacting poorly to the change in leadership, and that they should bear some of the responsibility themselves. I'm not criticizing them for being upset by the change, but it's happened. I think they need to suck it up, motivate themselves if they have to, and do honor to that four-letter name on their uniforms.

Finally, I think that leaving a school in the lurch after they gave you the opportunity to establish yourself and your career is about the least classy thing that one can do. Just MHO.

It's a long time ago now but it's my understanding that people (players etc.) were pretty miserable when Gail first arrived as the new coach as well. Change is not always easy and my guess is this transition is not the toughest thing these women will ever go through. I agree it would be nice to see them pull themselves together. I think they tried to do that, tried to bond as a team and play for each other and for Duke but for whatever reason that attitude hasn't really produced consistent performances.

As for your last comment, I can't blame Gail for leaving Duke. I wished she hadn't done it but I can't see where she did anything wrong in leaving for Texas. She was here for 14 years and did more than establish herself, she established Duke as a national power and kept us there for the better part of a decade. It's not like she made it to one final four then bolted for greener pastures.

Devilsfan
03-03-2008, 04:13 PM
It's hard to believe these rumored character flaws suddenly appeared.

Duvall
03-03-2008, 04:25 PM
It's hard to believe these rumored character flaws suddenly appeared.

It's not hard to believe that Duke fans have more informal conversations with Duke players and parents than they do with Michigan State players and parents.

diablesseblu
03-03-2008, 04:50 PM
It's not hard to believe that Duke fans have more informal conversations with Duke players and parents than they do with Michigan State players and parents.


Absolutely true. However, her husband's felony arrest in March 2007 for assault on a airport police officer (while traveling with JMP) would have caused me to exercise extraordinary due diligence in her hire.

My goodness...the fellow threatened the officer with a trash can, screamed obscenities and bit the fellow. Shouldn't that have prompted an unusual amount of care with this hire?

Also, MSU fans were not happy with how the coach handled this situation. Given Duke's recent problems with law enforcement, this would have been a dealbreaker for me from the outset. :rolleyes:

merry
03-03-2008, 05:54 PM
Absolutely true. However, her husband's felony arrest in March 2007 for assault on a airport police officer (while traveling with JMP) would have caused me to exercise extraordinary due diligence in her hire.

My goodness...the fellow threatened the officer with a trash can, screamed obscenities and bit the fellow. Shouldn't that have prompted an unusual amount of care with this hire?

Also, MSU fans were not happy with how the coach handled this situation. Given Duke's recent problems with law enforcement, this would have been a dealbreaker for me from the outset. :rolleyes:

And yet according to her he's interviewing for Econ positions at both Duke and UNC right now.

diablesseblu
03-03-2008, 06:04 PM
And yet according to her he's interviewing for Econ positions at both Duke and UNC right now.


Then, there must be a dearth of Econ profs on the horizon. This is not like the Amakers.

McCallie's hubby was a "visiting" prof at MSU. Among her fans on the MSU boards who had him for class..........no positive comments.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
03-03-2008, 06:42 PM
I absolutely disagree with the previous poster's characterization of this as an "excellent post". It compares apples to oranges (14 years under Gail to one year under Coach P) and relies on rumors of dissent between the coach and players to prove its point.

Hmm, since the "point" of the post was the subjective statement that I'm frustrated, I'm not sure how I would go about "proving" it. The struggles of this team loaded with an obscene number of All-Americans has been very disappointing to me. Not just the W-L record, but the in-game performance have been far below almost any of the recent seasons where Gail has had comparable talent. If you are happy with this season, great for you. Being happy always beats being not happy. :)



I've got news for you: I heard more of these rumors over the years of Gail's tenure than I care to repeat. I choose not to repeat them because they're just that: rumors.

Gail has had a line of great players with glowing things to say about her interaction with players. P brings an established history of her and her husband (who, imo has no business being involved with the team in the first place) not generating that type of feeling. I agree that the rumors in isolation are not very meaningful, but since the entire team seems to be playing in a funk they concern me. Again, if you'd rather give P the benefit of the doubt that's your right. For me, G earned that benefit with years of great performance and P hasn't yet. I'm hoping she will.


I also disagree with the suggestion that Coach P has "thrown her players under the bus" for underperforming. Call me old-fashioned, but I think we need a little personal responsibility here. It's the coach's job to scout, plan, recruit, adapt and analyze in-game, and yes, in some ways, to motivate. But I think it's important to consider the possibility that this team of 18-21 year old women is reacting poorly to the change in leadership, and that they should bear some of the responsibility themselves. I'm not criticizing them for being upset by the change, but it's happened. I think they need to suck it up, motivate themselves if they have to, and do honor to that four-letter name on their uniforms.

I think this is where we really disagree. I NEVER want to see the Gary Williams-style "my players let me down" attitude from a Duke coach. When K is critical of the team he'll generally say something like "we really struggled with motivation" (i.e. the team as a whole, including K) or "I failed to get the kids ready to play." Unless you have some evidence that our players are just a bunch of surly McCantsesque malcontents, I think the onus has to be on the coach to prepare the team. The fact that P didn't is bad enough. The fact that she's dodging responsibility by blaming her players is REALLY offputting to me.


Finally, I think that leaving a school in the lurch after they gave you the opportunity to establish yourself and your career is about the least classy thing that one can do. Just MHO.

We may never know why Gail isn't coaching at Duke. Her own changing personal situation undoubtedly played a part. I think the (shameful) discomfort some in the Duke community felt with her new lifestyle did as well. I strenuously disagree with your attempt to cast Gail as the villain in this situation. Gail built this program from a middle-of-the-pack afterthought on campus to a national power that could fill up Cameron for big games. She didn't take a bunch of players with her, she didn't leave mid-season, and she certainly didn't leave the cupboard bare. If this program is in a "lurch" (and I'm increasingly afraid that it is) it sure isn't Gail's fault.

throatybeard
03-03-2008, 07:48 PM
Unless she was tag-teaming, I fail to see what her husband getting into it with a cop has to do with her. If every idiotic thing I've ever done were pinned on my wife, she'd look a lot more irresponsible than she does.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
03-03-2008, 07:58 PM
Unless she was tag-teaming, I fail to see what her husband getting into it with a cop has to do with her. If every idiotic thing I've ever done were pinned on my wife, she'd look a lot more irresponsible than she does.

Ditto for me big time.:D

I thought that her husband had also had some interaction with players/former players that involved semi-abusive behavior (yelling, profanity, etc). If I'm incorrect about that, I'll gladly rescind that part of my comments.

KandG
03-03-2008, 08:13 PM
Finally, I think that leaving a school in the lurch after they gave you the opportunity to establish yourself and your career is about the least classy thing that one can do. Just MHO.


Stupid and clueless to call this "classless". She didn't owe the school anything other than the opportunity to listen to their offer. If she felt that the way she was negotiated with wasn't to her liking, then so be it. If the school felt she wasn't worth some of the things she was asking for, that was the school's right. But she didn't leave Duke "in the lurch" -- unless you believe the administration and Joe Alleva bear no responsibility for her departure. It was a mutual arrangement that could definitely have been handled better, but to pin it completely on one side or the other is ridiculous -- unless you're affiliated with one of the parties in question, or you're a toadie for McCallie or Alleva and can't deal with having them get any heat.

DukeDevilDeb
03-03-2008, 08:27 PM
As sad as it is, last night's loss was incredibly predictable. Duke women have no marquee wins this year. And many of the turnovers appear to be unforced. They simply have no flow, no rhythm. They have started 11 different lineups this year. Perhaps that says it all. I just hope that McCauley will be able to recruit as well as G did.

Let me introduce you to our new women's b-ball coach: Joanne P. McCallie

Seems to me that after nearly a season with her on campus, you probably should know how to spell her name!:D

cspan37421
03-03-2008, 08:33 PM
Her own changing personal situation undoubtedly played a part. I think the (shameful) discomfort some in the Duke community felt with her new lifestyle did as well.

Please elaborate ... what new lifestyle? Something more than trading in Duke Blue for burnt orange?

diablesseblu
03-03-2008, 08:33 PM
Unless she was tag-teaming, I fail to see what her husband getting into it with a cop has to do with her. If every idiotic thing I've ever done were pinned on my wife, she'd look a lot more irresponsible than she does.


I would normally agree with this position. However, McCallie was traveling with his wife. Given her high profile position at MSU, I fault them both for this having escalated to the point of assault/arrest.

Can you imagine if Mr. Hatchell or Mrs. K pulled this stunt? Simple answer....they wouldn't.

DukeDevilDeb
03-03-2008, 08:33 PM
I absolutely disagree with the previous poster's characterization of this as an "excellent post". It compares apples to oranges (14 years under Gail to one year under Coach P) and relies on rumors of dissent between the coach and players to prove its point. I've got news for you: I heard more of these rumors over the years of Gail's tenure than I care to repeat. I choose not to repeat them because they're just that: rumors.

I also disagree with the suggestion that Coach P has "thrown her players under the bus" for underperforming. Call me old-fashioned, but I think we need a little personal responsibility here. It's the coach's job to scout, plan, recruit, adapt and analyze in-game, and yes, in some ways, to motivate. But I think it's important to consider the possibility that this team of 18-21 year old women is reacting poorly to the change in leadership, and that they should bear some of the responsibility themselves. I'm not criticizing them for being upset by the change, but it's happened. I think they need to suck it up, motivate themselves if they have to, and do honor to that four-letter name on their uniforms.

Finally, I think that leaving a school in the lurch after they gave you the opportunity to establish yourself and your career is about the least classy thing that one can do. Just MHO.

Question for all of you who are banging on Coach P and singing love songs about Coach G... If Coach G were so great, why the h*ll isn't she still here? I have real trouble with your praising a woman who RAN from this program (to Texas, not a Tennessee or Rutgers or Connecticut with established programs) with very little notice at a time when the kids were really down.

I don't know either of them as individuals, but Coach G went VERY FAR DOWN on my list after her race to get out of NC. Convince me that I'm wrong!:confused: