Duke MBB v NCSU post-game thread

[throatybeard]

My retinas were harmed by Sidney Lowe's jacket during the making of this thread.

PS 800

[Karl Beem]

Never a doubt!:D

[runanhide21]

huge win...HUGE!!! huge for confidence, huge for 1 seed, just a HUGE win

[dukelion]

Talk about getting 800 in style!

What a win!!!!!!!!!!!!

[godukerocks]

Congrats to Coach K on his 800th, and what a way to earn it.

[_Gary]

I think this win was H-U-G-E for the team. Had they lost I could have seen us spiraling out of control and looking at an earlier than planned exit from the tourney. This helps confidence and keeps us on top of the ACC (tied, to be technical), in my opinion.


Gary

[BCGroup]

I do think it's helpful to have a win like this late--coming back from behind and holding on at the end. That seems to epitomize this team--figuring out a way to win no matter what. Congrats on 800 Coach K!

[prefan21]

Awesome win for the team.

Builds confidence in their toughness! And it's K's 800th!

[throatybeard]

I think this win was H-U-G-E for the team. Had they lost I could have seen us spiraling out of control and looking at an earlier than planned exit from the tourney. This helps confidence and keeps us on top of the ACC (tied, to be technical), in my opinion.

How illogical. If we were so mentally fragile that a one-possession RS loss would cause that, then we wouldn't have much of a shot in the NCAAs anyway. Or have made it this far in the RS in a tie for 1st.

This team is tough.

[Saratoga2]

Never a doubt!:D

I'm an emtional wreck after watching this game. Tough guys came through when it counted. The 5 guys on the floor at the end are super tough. State played their very best, yet in the end, Duke showed the determination to get it done.

I loved Scheyer's game, but Nelson also was great making his freee throws at the end. Paulus played well as did Henderson. Not one of Singler's best but he is so versitile he just keeps making plays.

I would have liked more of Zoubek against McCauley. He seemed to be the only one to be able to rebound and to offer more resistence against the inside game of State.

[EKU1969]

Lowe had 2 timeouts to work with, why not take one just off the rebound? Breathtaking; this old heart can't take too many more of these.

[freedevil]

I was screaming at DeMarcus most of this game. He played a HUGE role in the comeback and you gotta love that he never gave up, even when playing pretty poorly.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

NC State played one of their best games of the year and really challenged Duke today..... not a surprise really (Senior Day, playing Duke). Our team struggled, but when it counted at the end the guys were able to control the clock and hold on to the lead. This one goes into the record book as a W!

[Johnny B]

I agree on the confidence thing. Clutch plays towards the end; both FTs and 3-point shots. Confidence can be fragile in a young team and this type of victory, when it's about making plays at the end, will do them wonders.

Congrats to the best coach in college basketball!!
:D

[duke211]

My body cant take it

[_Gary]

How illogical.

Whatever. I said it was my opinion, so feel free to belittle it all you want. But many of these players were on last year's team, and that team did have a poor second half to the season. I just think it was critical that they get this one.

Gary

[WeepingThomasHill]

Last year, this team folds. What a great win - Nelson put us on his back at the end of the game. Scheyer with his usual all-around brilliance. Singler, Paulus and Henderson just kept making big plays. Despite State's bigs, our smaller lineup played tremendously. We were better off without Zoubek in the second half- he just does not have the strength and quickness now to defend in the post or finish in traffic.

Great confidence boost heading into the final 2 games. Congrats to K on his 800th.

[wilko]

GD what a game!!
wow... just when I was feeling sorry for myself and conceeding the loss mentally... We gut it out and win. GD!

Wow couldnt be more thrilled at this moment with the team.

PS:
How DARE State find a heart a play us with fierce emotion and passion like that. They roll over over and dry up for the heels but fight us like men possessed. Bah! They should bring more often that every 3rd game.

[loran16]

WE BLOODY <insert profanity here> WIN!

Okay, now that i got this out of my system.....

K we played a terrible game with a bad team.

The Good:
Not much here. Well we were incredible on the line, and managed to win despite them nailing 25-29 FTs (a rediculous number). Despite the large amount of foul shots, none of our players fouled out. And we made a few clutch 3s and clutch Free Throws down the last 2 minutes.

The Bad
A lot. Before UNC we were a top 4 defensive team in the nation. And our D is still ranked 6th in the Ken Pom ratings. Still, 85 to NC State is unacceptable. I understand that if they shot like a normal team on Free throws, they'd have scored maybe 80. Which is still way too much. They had a way too easy time at bits getting easy baskets, finding open men (due to Double Teams) under the basket, etc. etc.

Truely sloppy.

---------------------------

All in all, i almost had a heart attack. We need to regroup. We did not look like a team deserving to play in the NCAA Tournament for most of today.

[freshmanjs]

Whatever. I said it was my opinion, so feel free to belittle it all you want. But many of these players were on last year's team, and that team did have a poor second half to the season. I just think it was critical that they get this one.

Gary

Totally agree...there is a huge difference in mental state between "we've lost 3 of our last 4 acc games" and "we just came back from 11 down to win coach k's 800 on the road"

[Johnny B]

How illogical. If we were so mentally fragile that a one-possession RS loss would cause that, then we wouldn't have much of a shot in the NCAAs anyway. Or have made it this far in the RS in a tie for 1st.

This team is tough.

I agree this team is tough, but they are still young. I seem to remember K in an interview (recently?) talk about the differences between young and experienced teams. He described confidence as being relatively thin in a young team, and deeper in a more experienced bunch of players. I presume the concept is that confidence can be more easily challenged in a younger team. This game shows we are tough, but the W helps reinforce that confidence further.

[bluepenguin]

I love watching this team play. Whether they win or lose, they leave it all on the floor. And this afternoon's win was truly a gutsy performance and worthy of giving K his 800th.

Gotta say I was shocked by what was being said on snubchat. I have never heard so many negative, personal attacks on Duke players outside of IC. And, clearly, these were not trollers. I couldn't enjoy the game on snubchat. I was so disgusted by what was being said, I had to leave. Pretty sad that we can't watch a game with each other without all the b*tching.

[Madrasdukie]

How illogical. If we were so mentally fragile that a one-possession RS loss would cause that, then we wouldn't have much of a shot in the NCAAs anyway. Or have made it this far in the RS in a tie for 1st.

This team is tough.

I absolutely agree.

When we were down 13 I was telling myself that we were playing hard, very hard, and very resilient. To beat a State team when Gonzalez is like perfect from beyond the arc, and the State team in general is playing like never before in this season is just incredibly super. That it would be K's 800th is icing.

[Jumbo]

There is a lot to be said for winning a game like this. On the one hand, I'm sure everyone in the Duke locker room would be the first guys to admit that the team has some defensive issues to address. But, they can still address those without adding another mark in the loss column. And, in the process, we saw the following stuff happen:

-Jon Scheyer do what the coaches have been asking and playing like a star. He looked to create all game and while his 19 points were nice, so were the numerous attacking moves he made that consistently led to open shots for teammates.
-DeMarcus Nelson knocking down meaningful FTs. So sweet!
-Greg Paulus knocking down a couple of clutch open threes after rushing a really long one that made me want to rip my own tonsils out.
-Getting a key stop up one with 40 seconds left.
-Terrific offensive execution down the stretch that led to open shot after open shot (or FTs). Duke scored 87 points and could have had WAY more if numerous open threes from Singler, layups/dunks from Markie, etc. had gone down.

Everyone else has commented on this team's toughness, and it's yet another example of how this team differs from last year's. Just remember that last year's team suffered a defensive breakdown late in the season, and couldn't find a way to overcome that in the ACC Tourney against NC State. This might not be a great team, but it is one that still has room for improvement, displays tremendous heart and is really developing some mental toughness. Let's enjoy this win.

[hc5duke]

Lowe had 2 timeouts to work with, why not take one just off the rebound? Breathtaking; this old heart can't take too many more of these.

that's what i was thinking as well. I guess he was hoping to catch a defensive lapse from us after the missed shot with 5 seconds to go. Bad move in my 20/20 hindsight.

[EKU1969]

know why Coach K is not getting more COY props. Who would have thought that this team would be tied for the ACC lead, have only lost 3 games, and wins without a real inside presence? I didn't; to me this has been one of Coach K's best teaching and motivating seasons in my memory. To get these young men to blend and meld together and learn a relatively new system so quickly and adroitly is fantastic. Also, congrats for #800!

[DevilYouthCoach]

State made their first 22 free throws and shot incredibly well until the end. By my count DeMarcus missed five straight lay-ups in the second half. Yet this team kept the pressure up the entire game, never gave up for an instant. I was dazzled by their toughness. I don't know if they can do that night after night, but I doubt they'll play many teams that are playing out of their minds like State was. Almost a shame they had to lose. But a magnificent win for us.

[Indoor66]

I love watching this team play. Whether they win or lose, they leave it all on the floor. And this afternoon's win was truly a gutsy performance and worthy of giving K his 800th.

Gotta say I was shocked by what was being said on snubchat. I have never heard so many negative, personal attacks on Duke players outside of IC. And, clearly, these were not trollers. I couldn't enjoy the game on snubchat. I was so disgusted by what was being said, I had to leave. Pretty sad that we can't watch a game with each other without all the b*tching.

I agree completely with the snrubchat comments. It was disgusting to read. I left several times, came back and left again. My comment then and now is that some there needed to watch the game more and type less.

[pfrduke]

Put yourself in Sidney Lowe's shoes... down 1 with 40 seconds to go.

Do you:
a) foul, extend the game
b) play some kind of pressure defense, try to force a turnover (or quick shot) but don't try to foul
c) play normal defense, let Duke run 35 seconds off the clock, leaving yourself with just ~4 seconds left to try to get a winning shot.

Personally, I go with (a). I think (c) is close to conceding the game - after a missed shot, there's just not enough time to get a good look.

[throatybeard]

Gotta say I was shocked by what was being said on snubchat. I have never heard so many negative, personal attacks on Duke players outside of IC. And, clearly, these were not trollers. I couldn't enjoy the game on snubchat. I was so disgusted by what was being said, I had to leave. Pretty sad that we can't watch a game with each other without all the b*tching.

I agree completely with the snrubchat comments. It was disgusting to read. I left several times, came back and left again. My comment then and now is that some there needed to watch the game more and type less.

Generally, we don't kick Duke fans out of chat unless they get amazingly negative. We've tossed a couple people for the duration of the game and then unbanned them (like a warning sort of). Loopy did eject one user today for the rest of the game. There's sort of an expectation that during a game, people are gonna vent in the moment. So it's a lot more Laissez-faire than here.

Snrubchat belongs to Breen, so we can have a discussion with him about whether a little more monitoring of excessive negativity is warranted. So I would urge people not to give up on it solely because of what was going on in this game's 2H.

Another issue is that I don't have a set-up where I can see the game at the same time I'm in chat, so I stick my head in at every timeout. Breen's often gone during games, so that means Loopy is often the only one. I'm moving this month, and I will have a wireless router going at my new place, so there should be two of us most of the time paying attention to the room.

[pfrduke]

I'll add that after all the whining and complaining about broadcasters, it was a pleasure to listen to Lundquist and Raftery call the game - very even-handed, focused on the actual game (what a concept), and informative.

[captmojo]

The shot from the corner, within 7-8 feet of the baseline, is the worst shot in the game. Here, you do not have a backboard to assist with depth perception. This shot has been left available for Duke for several of the latest games. They have been fortunate to knock a few down.

Defensively, this team has been playing the overplay to their own detriment. State was able far too often to have their ball driver be able to find a wide open teammate, many times close to the basket, for an uncontested shot and they made them. This tide did turn somewhat at the end when less doubling down did not afford them the same open looks. Their shooting was great. Why couldn't they shoot this well against the holes?

Free throws were a definite plus for both sides until State began choking a few at the end.

Great win for Coach. All congrats to him and the team. DeMarcus really shined. Next victim please.

[BlueintheFace]

Is anybody really shocked that the two guys who pretty much scored all of our points in the last 4 minutes (including 2 three-pointers each) were Demarcus and Paulus. What a HUGE three by paulus there at the end!

That being said, everyone seems to be saying the EXACT same question. "How did we win that game?"

[The1Bluedevil]

Wow most excited I've been in a Duke game in quite a while. Love this team.

No negative comments just a questions

I don't understand why Duke goes and doubles when Z is guarding in the post?

I thought when Duke started doubling late in the 2nd block to block they started getting stops. Didn't understand the wing double downs.

[91devil]

Last year, this team folds. What a great win - Nelson put us on his back at the end of the game. Scheyer with his usual all-around brilliance. Singler, Paulus and Henderson just kept making big plays. Despite State's bigs, our smaller lineup played tremendously. We were better off without Zoubek in the second half- he just does not have the strength and quickness now to defend in the post or finish in traffic.

Great confidence boost heading into the final 2 games. Congrats to K on his 800th.



Last WEEK this team folds. Down thirteen with twelve minutes to go.

Only eight turnovers all game....we will take that every time. Major props to this week's free throw shooting coach.

[D9u9k9e]

Put yourself in Sidney Lowe's shoes... down 1 with 40 seconds to go.

Do you:
a) foul, extend the game
b) play some kind of pressure defense, try to force a turnover (or quick shot) but don't try to foul
c) play normal defense, let Duke run 35 seconds off the clock, leaving yourself with just ~4 seconds left to try to get a winning shot.

Personally, I go with (a). I think (c) is close to conceding the game - after a missed shot, there's just not enough time to get a good look.

I'm glad it isn't just me thinking that may have been a mistake on Lowe's part.

[JStuart]

Throaty,
I can personally assure you that the effect is temporary, at worst. Besides, your corneae and lenses filter nearly all of the Wolfpack red wavelengths
Jstuart, Duke Ophth, '78-'81
Just wear your shades from the photos from Cameron Indoor, drink some Fat Tire (or your local generic equivalent), listen to some Mahler, and you'll be fine.
What an ending, though.

[loran16]

Put yourself in Sidney Lowe's shoes... down 1 with 40 seconds to go.

Do you:
a) foul, extend the game
b) play some kind of pressure defense, try to force a turnover (or quick shot) but don't try to foul
c) play normal defense, let Duke run 35 seconds off the clock, leaving yourself with just ~4 seconds left to try to get a winning shot.

Personally, I go with (a). I think (c) is close to conceding the game - after a missed shot, there's just not enough time to get a good look.

I gotta agree. Especially when duke has some bad FT shooters who are known for it. If you foul demarc or lance, odds are pretty good they're down 2 with 35 to play.

I mean, they had 4 seconds to go floor to floor and we were set on defense to press them.

But i won't complain.

[blueprofessor]

...according to Lowe and we were 22/57 (38&#37;) from floor; 13/28 (46%) from 3-line; Duke 9 off. rebounds,only 2 in 2nd half;Duke 8 TOs and 5 steals; NC State 17 TOs and we scored over 20 on their TOs; NC State 4 steals.
We hit 5 of our last 6 3-pointers.
Today's game was our 2nd worst shooting(%) game of the year.
AND our tough sons of guns WON!
Congrats , you gutty,no quit ,fighting Blue Devils!
Best regards.:)
K:"This was a remarkable game and D Nelson was fabulous,as were rest of guys."

[sagegrouse]

I'll add that after all the whining and complaining about broadcasters, it was a pleasure to listen to Lundquist and Raftery call the game - very even-handed, focused on the actual game (what a concept), and informative.

I'm in the tank for Verne Lundquist, who lives here in Steamboat. He is just a pleasant, pleasant human being.

What I appreciate about Raftery is that he treats basketball like it's a game, not like it's war or life-and-death.

sagegrouse

[DoubleDuke Dad]

At one point in the first half of the game NC State had the following stats:

Field goals: 15/25 = 60&#37;
Foul Shots: 14/14 = 100%
3-Point shots: 7/10 = 70%

I just shook my head and said if NC State keeps this up they could beat the Dream Team.

[grossbus]

"drink some Fat Tire"

fat tire, mmmmmm!

[ugadevil]

Does Ben McCauley have any other low post move besides his drop step to the middle of the lane & the baby hook shot as he drifts across the middle? There doesn't seem to be anything complicated about it, but he seems to get open looks every time.

[EarlJam]

At one point in the first half of the game NC State had the following stats:

Field goals: 15/25 = 60%
Foul Shots: 14/14 = 100%
3-Point shots: 7/10 = 70%

I just shook my head and said if NC State keeps this up they could beat the Dream Team.

Totally agreed and I was thinking the same thing but I was getting ticked at all the open looks they were getting. They must have had five or six shots from deep where there wasn't a Duke defender within three feet of them. Some of that was because of good ball movement, reversal on State's side; but much of it was just horrid defense.

Still, State was shooting ridiculous lights out at that time.

-EarlJam

[EarlJam]

Great, gutsy win!

Just a quick question: Did anyone else thing Singler got by with a walk big time in the first half? The play with the steal, transition thent lay-up?

-EarlJam

P.S. Also felt like State got by with a lot of over-the-back no calls.

[dukegirlinsc]

I do think it's helpful to have a win like this late--coming back from behind and holding on at the end. That seems to epitomize this team--figuring out a way to win no matter what. Congrats on 800 Coach K!

It's not very helpful to have a potential loss like this game could VERY easily have been. While "holding on" at the end of the game doesn't always work, and isn't always fun to watch, it still counts as a win...and I'll take it over a loss any day.

[RelativeWays]

I'm so glad we gutted that one out, particularly after the failed Miami comeback. I saw a good bit of the second half when I was having lunch with a friend and we were getting clobbered (down by 15 at one point I think). When we left and came back to his house we were down by 6 with about 2:30 left to play, but State was playing so well at that point I didn't think we would win so I was estatic to turn on the DRN and hear K's thoughts on his 800th win and how D-marc sealed it with FTs.

I feel a little bad for State, this game they showed up big time and still lost.

[Highlander]

...according to Lowe and we were 22/57 (38%) from floor; 13/28 (46%) from 3-line; Duke 9 off. rebounds,only 2 in 2nd half;Duke 8 TOs and 5 steals; NC State 17 TOs and we scored over 20 on their TOs; NC State 4 steals.
We hit 5 of our last 6 3-pointers.
Today's game was our 2nd worst shooting(%) game of the year.
AND our tough sons of guns WON!
Congrats , you gutty,no quit ,fighting Blue Devils!
Best regards.:)
K:"This was a remarkable game and D Nelson was fabulous,as were rest of guys."

That seems to be the MO of how to beat Duke now. Take away (or hope for a cold night) their outside shot, then let us drive into the trees and try to get a shot off. That completely neutralizes Greg's two biggest assets, the dish and the long ball. I'd add to that our on the ball defense has been particularly poor lately, and both Smith and Paulus were burned repeatedly. Paulus twice left his man to double the post and twice gave up a 3 on the kickout.

I'll admit that I actually gave up today at one point, and was pleasantly surprised when we came back to win. That being said, I thought we were outplayed for most of the game, and were very fortunate to get the W. Our defense was pretty poor, and it's becoming a bad habit. Part of the reason State had a monster shooting game was that we gave them open looks. The only difference between this game and the Miami game was the size of the 2nd half deficit. This time we kept it close enough to stay in the game.

We have to address our poor defense and soon. We can probably beat UVA playing this way, but we'll need to play a lot better to get past UNC or win more than a game in either tourney.

[freshmanjs]

This had some similarity to coach k's 500th win at home vs UNC in 1998. 77-75 after a 2nd half comeback...complete with hugs

[dukegirlinsc]

At one point in the first half of the game NC State had the following stats:

Field goals: 15/25 = 60%
Foul Shots: 14/14 = 100%
3-Point shots: 7/10 = 70%

I just shook my head and said if NC State keeps this up they could beat the Dream Team.

That's just insane.

[jjasper0729]

i think miami exposed how to "beat" duke with their sagging 2-3 zone defense. you're right about "daring' us to win by hitting the 3. by sagging, that takes away the drive and dish and it seems like our offense really breaks down when that happens. it's as if they don't have a back up plan. dunno right now. still wrapping my brain around the ability to make the comeback.

[wisteria]

I still can't believe we made the come back.
I simply don't understand how we made it. It was insane!!

I was there in RBC center, behind the hoop at Duke's bench end. I was so close that I could see Nelson's face SO clearly. He absolutely willed us to the win. His face was full of determination and anger, just plainly saying "I'm not gonna let you take this one." The last two minutes, he slapped the floor emphatically almost every single possession. He looked like a wounded warrior. That's a lot of heart.

[3rd Dukie]

Great, gutsy win!

Just a quick question: Did anyone else thing Singler got by with a walk big time in the first half? The play with the steal, transition thent lay-up?

-EarlJam

P.S. Also felt like State got by with a lot of over-the-back no calls.

When I first saw it in realtime, I was positive he did.
When they showed the replay I was not so sure. Tough call, but I still think he got away with a walk on the play.

[dukegirlinsc]

This had some similarity to coach k's 500th win at home vs UNC in 1998. 77-75 after a 2nd half comeback...complete with hugs

The hugs were a great touch to the end of the game. Loved those!

[Jumbo]

I love watching this team play. Whether they win or lose, they leave it all on the floor. And this afternoon's win was truly a gutsy performance and worthy of giving K his 800th.

Gotta say I was shocked by what was being said on snubchat. I have never heard so many negative, personal attacks on Duke players outside of IC. And, clearly, these were not trollers. I couldn't enjoy the game on snubchat. I was so disgusted by what was being said, I had to leave. Pretty sad that we can't watch a game with each other without all the b*tching.

I love your new avatar.

[pamtar]

I drank their beer, I ate their prime rib, I pulled against their team!!

Heart attack city! MAN that was a good game. In case you couldnt tell from TV, about 1/4 of the crowd was wearing blue. Way to travel Dukies!

Great win for our guys. Congrats to Coach! I have to compliment NCSU on a fine facility and a speedy wait staff. If anyone gets the chance to go see a game from the box seats, do it! (I was lucky enough to get a call at 11:00 last night with an invite attached.)

Lets hope this BC score holds up!! LGD! 9F!

[Jumbo]

Put yourself in Sidney Lowe's shoes... down 1 with 40 seconds to go.

Do you:
a) foul, extend the game
b) play some kind of pressure defense, try to force a turnover (or quick shot) but don't try to foul
c) play normal defense, let Duke run 35 seconds off the clock, leaving yourself with just ~4 seconds left to try to get a winning shot.

Personally, I go with (a). I think (c) is close to conceding the game - after a missed shot, there's just not enough time to get a good look.

Agreed. C works if he's coaching in the NBA, where he could advance the ball to halfcourt on a timeout. It was a silly decision in a college game -- almost as bad as Gary Williams trying to do that with a 3-second differential against Butler in the NCAA Tourney last year.

[Jumbo]

i think miami exposed how to "beat" duke with their sagging 2-3 zone defense. you're right about "daring' us to win by hitting the 3. by sagging, that takes away the drive and dish and it seems like our offense really breaks down when that happens. it's as if they don't have a back up plan. dunno right now. still wrapping my brain around the ability to make the comeback.

I don't agree at all. We played fantastic offense for most of the day. How many contested shots did we take? Not many. Singler missed a number of wide-open threes that he normally knocks down. We scored 87 points. We missed layups and a dunk. The passing late in the game was fantastic and led to open look after open look. I love the way our offense attacked after a slow shooting start.

[TillyGalore]

I drank their beer, I ate their prime rib, I pulled against their team!!

Heart attack city! MAN that was a good game. In case you couldnt tell from TV, about 1/4 of the crowd was wearing blue. Way to travel Dukies!

Great win for our guys. Congrats to Coach! I have to compliment NCSU on a fine facility and a speedy wait staff. If anyone gets the chance to go see a game from the box seats, do it! (I was lucky enough to get a call at 11:00 last night with an invite attached.)

Lets hope this BC score holds up!! LGD! 9F!

I was at the game too. Really disappointed in State fans. When Greg was elbowed at the beginning of the game the wolves I was surrounded by were booing him. Then when the jumbotron had a shot of Greg being treated for the cut under his eye from said elbow, the wolves were cheering. From that point on I was praying even harder for a W. Though I loved when the crowd chanted "Paulus, Paulus...you suck" and he hit a 3. Sweet!!!

Gutsy play by the team. And, congrats to Coach K for his 800th victory. Am hoping I can catch up with him somehow to sign my tix. Anyone have any ideas on how I can get that to happen?

[dukestheheat]

I think this win was H-U-G-E for the team. Had they lost I could have seen us spiraling out of control and looking at an earlier than planned exit from the tourney. This helps confidence and keeps us on top of the ACC (tied, to be technical), in my opinion.


Gary

So, I was at the game today and had tickets given to me by a fat cat last week; sat up a couple rows almost directly behind the State bench. Folks, that arena was HOSTILE towards our guys today and also the game was extremely physical. Duke is very, very fortunate to come back, down by at least 13 points deep into that second half, and win it. The team was elated to get this win!

Couple points:

1) Paulus was completely decked by their PG and it looked like a very bad play from what I could see. I saw it all unfold very clearly. What got me was the reaction of the fans! All were calling for Paulus's head to be chopped off and many around me were laughing at him as he lay on the floor, bleeding. I was astounded. Grown men and grown women were up and shouting expletive deleteds at Paulus!!! This was out of control and it shows how crazy many people have gotten at college basketball games the last couple years. The play was thug life at its best, Paulus was very clearly injured, badly, and many grown fans (these were not State students where I was sitting) were completely out of control with their emotions towards Duke and in particular, Paulus, today.

2) Good chats with Taylor King and also Kyle Singler today afterwards; King was business-like and we talked about how well State shot the ball today, and he was obviously well aware of the stats. I said State shot out the lights and I think they hit about 57% and he said well actually it was 54% and yeah they were lights out. Singler is a portrait. His face is scarred from all his injuries this year and he looks like a dude right out of the Friday the 13th horror movies or something like that. I told him we'd nicknamed him 'Iron Man' on the DBR and he really loved that! I took the chance to thank him for representing Duke so well and he appreciated it. He grinned the whole time we chatted and he gives you that impression that he just knows something you don't know!

3) Paulus looked totally haggard after the game and he just limped onto our bus and didn't say a word! He waved over at me and that was it. He just looked totally drained. I was so proud of him to SHUT UP THAT CROWD today with dagger after dagger. The same stupid woman who was deriding him when he was on the floor shook her head and said 'well, he plays hard and he can shoot, I gotta give it to him'.

Anyways, we needed this win and this comeback, and for Duke to hang in there and overcome all that adversity and win it, it says a lot for the team.

dth.

[1Devil]

How illogical. If we were so mentally fragile that a one-possession RS loss would cause that, then we wouldn't have much of a shot in the NCAAs anyway....

In case you didn't notice, there's a big difference between winning and losing, even if the difference is only a point.

[jjasper0729]

I thought the offense finally came around, but it looked, int he first half and the first part of the second half that they didn't quite know the best way to attack the zone NCSU was in. I noticed a lot of isolation and a lot of isolation. Not that that was totally bad the way we were nailing the free throws today. That saved our skins totally. We started the first half 1-11, then went 6-7 and finished up 4-14. I'm just posting my observations. The second half of the second half, we had a lot better spacing and movement. There was a lot more drawing and kicking that we're used to getting (see Scheyer driving and dishing to DMarc who backed up to the 3 line and nailed it as an example).

not to belabor the point, but either way, we need to figure out the shooting funk so we dont get caught like this in the tournament.

[ArkieDukie]

My retinas were harmed by Sidney Lowe's jacket during the making of this thread.

PS 800

LOL! I wondered if he got it at a Nolan Richardson garage sale.

[ArkieDukie]

I love watching this team play. Whether they win or lose, they leave it all on the floor. And this afternoon's win was truly a gutsy performance and worthy of giving K his 800th.

Gotta say I was shocked by what was being said on snubchat. I have never heard so many negative, personal attacks on Duke players outside of IC. And, clearly, these were not trollers. I couldn't enjoy the game on snubchat. I was so disgusted by what was being said, I had to leave. Pretty sad that we can't watch a game with each other without all the b*tching.

ITA. If it makes you feel any better, I think things improved a bit after you got disgusted and left.

[Classof06]

Wasn't the prettiest thing ever but we got it done. I think this is a big win and I think it's the kind of win that can really set the tone for the rest of the season.

With about 8-9 minutes left, this team had their back against the wall with any chance at a 1 seed in the balance. We collectively manned up and worked through the difficulties. The fact that Krzyzewski let the team decide what to do down the stretch shows why he has 800 wins; what a coaching move.

I thought I learned a lot about this team when we came back from 9 down at Maryland and I think we learned something about this team this afternoon. Besides beating UNC, this was arguably one of the most satisfying wins of the season for me.

[beltwayBD]

800! Phenomenal. Incredible emotion when K gave Scheyer a big hug at the end of the game. I saw Coach K get choked up in a post-game interview, crediting Coach Knight with his success. I've never been a big fan of Knight, but it's hard not to respect him with the kind of praise K was giving him.

Defense was pretty ugly tonight. And for most of the game, our shooting confidence seemed shaken. It's like whatever disease Taylor King has, has been affecting the team on-and-off for the last 5 games.

High Points: Free throw shooting. Scheyer and Nelson really delivered the win. Zoubek had some productive minutes (4 points, 3 rebounds in 8 minutes). We won! Am I missing something? 800 wins for K!

[jjasper0729]

I agree about the defense. we are really overplaying the passing and the help defense steps in at the top of the circle and around the perimeter. the concern i have is that we are leaving too many people and there have been quite a few dishes by someone driving the lane on us to someone wide open. I hope it can get corrected quick.

[mgtr]

A w is a w is a w. But we were lucky, lucky, lucky. It also helped that State was outcoached in the last minute or so. Happy for the win, happy for Coach K''s 800th.

[blueprofessor]

i think miami exposed how to "beat" duke with their sagging 2-3 zone defense. you're right about "daring' us to win by hitting the 3. by sagging, that takes away the drive and dish and it seems like our offense really breaks down when that happens. it's as if they don't have a back up plan. dunno right now. still wrapping my brain around the ability to make the comeback.

...that the NC State matchup zone had its intended effect.:(
Best regards.:)

[Saratoga2]

I thought the offense finally came around, but it looked, int he first half and the first part of the second half that they didn't quite know the best way to attack the zone NCSU was in. I noticed a lot of isolation and a lot of isolation. Not that that was totally bad the way we were nailing the free throws today. That saved our skins totally. We started the first half 1-11, then went 6-7 and finished up 4-14. I'm just posting my observations. The second half of the second half, we had a lot better spacing and movement. There was a lot more drawing and kicking that we're used to getting (see Scheyer driving and dishing to DMarc who backed up to the 3 line and nailed it as an example).

not to belabor the point, but either way, we need to figure out the shooting funk so we dont get caught like this in the tournament.

We probably missed a dozen shots within two feet of the basket. We have to either make a good percentage of those shots or get fouled trying.

[FerryFor50]

I was at this game and had pretty good seats.

A few things I noticed being there:

1) State fans are pretty uneducated about the game. Booing an offensive foul call when Paulus took an elbow to the face and bleeding? Booing the intentional foul call, which was OBVIOUS? That, and vitriol towards the refs on any and every call that went against State, legit or not.

2) There were a LOT of fouls called. The first 8 possessions had fouls called. It was a bit excessive. I thought the refs did a good job overall, though.

3) Ben McCauley is a punk. From showboating after making a layup to intentionally running through Kyle Singler at the end of the game after turning the ball over... then jawing down the court afterwards. Classless. I can't believe that no ref made a call after he ran through Singler like that.

4) NCSU fans have no loyalty. All I heard around me for the first half was lamenting about their team sucking... until they got up 8-10 points. Then it was cheer time! Not to mention the hate they were spewing regarding some of their players, like Marcus Johnson. For one, NCSU recruited him for a reason - give him time and be patient. Why wouldn't you want your young players to play and be given valuable experience and a chance to succeed?

Overall, it was fun, despite the obnoxiousness of the fans. Glad they pulled out the win.

[pratt '04]

Just remember that last year's team suffered a defensive breakdown late in the season, and couldn't find a way to overcome that in the ACC Tourney against NC State.

While I'm obviously psyched about today's win, I'm a little concerned that we're suffering a bit of a defensive breakdown here at the end of the season similar to last year. I think there is a much better chance of us being knocked out of the tournament due to a bad defensive performance than due to a bad shooting night. So what gives with the defense? What can we do to step the D up a notch for March Madness?

[SDfan]

So, I was at the game today and had tickets given to me by a fat cat last week; sat up a couple rows almost directly behind the State bench. Folks, that arena was HOSTILE towards our guys today and also the game was extremely physical. Duke is very, very fortunate to come back, down by at least 13 points deep into that second half, and win it. The team was elated to get this win!

Couple points:

1) Paulus was completely decked by their PG and it looked like a very bad play from what I could see. I saw it all unfold very clearly. What got me was the reaction of the fans! All were calling for Paulus's head to be chopped off and many around me were laughing at him as he lay on the floor, bleeding. I was astounded. Grown men and grown women were up and shouting expletive deleteds at Paulus!!! This was out of control and it shows how crazy many people have gotten at college basketball games the last couple years. The play was thug life at its best, Paulus was very clearly injured, badly, and many grown fans (these were not State students where I was sitting) were completely out of control with their emotions towards Duke and in particular, Paulus, today.

2) Good chats with Taylor King and also Kyle Singler today afterwards; King was business-like and we talked about how well State shot the ball today, and he was obviously well aware of the stats. I said State shot out the lights and I think they hit about 57% and he said well actually it was 54% and yeah they were lights out. Singler is a portrait. His face is scarred from all his injuries this year and he looks like a dude right out of the Friday the 13th horror movies or something like that. I told him we'd nicknamed him 'Iron Man' on the DBR and he really loved that! I took the chance to thank him for representing Duke so well and he appreciated it. He grinned the whole time we chatted and he gives you that impression that he just knows something you don't know!

3) Paulus looked totally haggard after the game and he just limped onto our bus and didn't say a word! He waved over at me and that was it. He just looked totally drained. I was so proud of him to SHUT UP THAT CROWD today with dagger after dagger. The same stupid woman who was deriding him when he was on the floor shook her head and said 'well, he plays hard and he can shoot, I gotta give it to him'.

Anyways, we needed this win and this comeback, and for Duke to hang in there and overcome all that adversity and win it, it says a lot for the team.

dth.

Check out the current issue of SI, it addresses the current hostilities found in a lot of college arena's around the country. Several Duke references.

[bjornolf]

I know I mentioned this before about the SJU game, but I just noticed this again on the CBS telecast today. They listed UNC at 11-2 ahead of Duke at 11-2, despite the fact that Duke beat UNC head-to-head. Some mentioned that it was UNC's overall record that warranted this listing, however, again today, they listed VT at 8-6 ahead of MD at 8-6. In this case, VT has beaten MD twice, but MD is 18-11 overall, while VT is 17-11. So, they're listing VT ahead of MD despite MD having a better overall record based on VT winning head-to-head, but they're listing UNC ahead of Duke by better overall record despite Duke being ahead on head-to-head results. Seems a little conveniently inconsistent to me. Just bugs me, I guess.

[bluepenguin]

I love your new avatar.
I'll share my bud light with you now;)

[jeff]

I know I mentioned this before about the SJU game, but I just noticed this again on the CBS telecast today. They listed UNC at 11-2 ahead of Duke at 11-2, despite the fact that Duke beat UNC head-to-head. Some mentioned that it was UNC's overall record that warranted this listing, however, again today, they listed VT at 8-6 ahead of MD at 8-6. In this case, VT has beaten MD twice, but MD is 18-11 overall, while VT is 17-11. So, they're listing VT ahead of MD despite MD having a better overall record based on VT winning head-to-head, but they're listing UNC ahead of Duke by better overall record despite Duke being ahead on head-to-head results. Seems a little conveniently inconsistent to me. Just bugs me, I guess.

The official acc site also list unc in first place.

[TwoDukeTattoos]

My son, Grant, and I were jumping up and down and double high-fiving! And my 10-month old, Quin was gripping his little Duke basketball and squealing with glee as his family and Devils were all pumped with victory!

It was a grueling game to watch. It seemed that State couldn't miss and Duke couldn't hit. Thank goodness for a solid effort from the line to give us a shot at winning down the stretch. I am gaining a lot of confidence in DeMarcus's ability to will his team to victory and that quality will be huge come Tourney time!

GO DUKE!!!

[CDu]

I know I mentioned this before about the SJU game, but I just noticed this again on the CBS telecast today. They listed UNC at 11-2 ahead of Duke at 11-2, despite the fact that Duke beat UNC head-to-head. Some mentioned that it was UNC's overall record that warranted this listing, however, again today, they listed VT at 8-6 ahead of MD at 8-6. In this case, VT has beaten MD twice, but MD is 18-11 overall, while VT is 17-11. So, they're listing VT ahead of MD despite MD having a better overall record based on VT winning head-to-head, but they're listing UNC ahead of Duke by better overall record despite Duke being ahead on head-to-head results. Seems a little conveniently inconsistent to me. Just bugs me, I guess.

And as was mentioned when you mentioned it before, the material for an in-game graphic probably isn't heavily scrutinized for tiebreaker consistency. I've seen worse mistakes than that in graphics.

Moreover, it's not the type of thing that really matters anyway. If we somehow wind up in a tie with UNC (looking unlikely), we'll most likely get the tiebreaker, because it looks like Maryland will wind up ahead of Wake. But ultimately, the graphic at the end of the season is all that will matter.

[loran16]

For the record, if i ever complain that the refs game the opponent's team the game again....shoot me.

The way NC State fans are I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing about that on their board makes me want to throw up. 4 of every 5 fans think the refs cost em the game, whereas only 1 of every 5 posts is logical and addresses their failures in the game.

Morons.

EDIT: The best part is that anyone who says "Oh that wasn't a foul by duke against us" gets quoted in a question asking for a ban.

[Indoor66]

I know I mentioned this before about the SJU game, but I just noticed this again on the CBS telecast today. They listed UNC at 11-2 ahead of Duke at 11-2, despite the fact that Duke beat UNC head-to-head. Some mentioned that it was UNC's overall record that warranted this listing, however, again today, they listed VT at 8-6 ahead of MD at 8-6. In this case, VT has beaten MD twice, but MD is 18-11 overall, while VT is 17-11. So, they're listing VT ahead of MD despite MD having a better overall record based on VT winning head-to-head, but they're listing UNC ahead of Duke by better overall record despite Duke being ahead on head-to-head results. Seems a little conveniently inconsistent to me. Just bugs me, I guess.

The logic of that is, after the conference record they look to the overall record, to determine the standing. UNC has one less losses than Duke. That gives UNC a better overall winning percenage. The DBR ACC Roundup table, referenced on the home page, lists UNC ahead of Duke for this reason, as well.

[arnie]

For the record, if i ever complain that the refs game the opponent's team the game again....shoot me.

The way NC State fans are I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing about that on their board makes me want to throw up. 4 of every 5 fans think the refs cost em the game, whereas only 1 of every 5 posts is logical and addresses their failures in the game.

Morons.

EDIT: The best part is that anyone who says "Oh that wasn't a foul by duke against us" gets quoted in a question asking for a ban.

The State whining about the refs essentially occurs after every loss in any sport. The atmosphere in the RBC is atrocious during the games. I've asked State fans if they think they are getting screwed in every contest, why do they continue to pay attention to the games. I think many of them genuinely believe the world is against them and to me, that is no way to enjoy collegiate competition/

[DukeDevil]

On the last Duke possession of the game, do you guys think that Duke just couldn't get an open look, like DBR said in the article? I think it was more played just as K wanted it. With a 5 second shot/play clock differential, the smartest thing seemed to be to wait till there was 1 second on the shot clock and to shoot a three. Hit or miss, it's a great way to help finish the game. Hit it, games over. Miss, and just the time of the ball in the air plus the time to grab the rebound takes off like...what...2 more seconds? Giving state only 3-4 seconds to take the ball downcourt against pressure from Duke and get a shot off.

[SMO]

On the last Duke possession of the game, do you guys think that Duke just couldn't get an open look, like DBR said in the article? I think it was more played just as K wanted it. With a 5 second shot/play clock differential, the smartest thing seemed to be to wait till there was 1 second on the shot clock and to shoot a three. Hit or miss, it's a great way to help finish the game. Hit it, games over. Miss, and just the time of the ball in the air plus the time to grab the rebound takes off like...what...2 more seconds? Giving state only 3-4 seconds to take the ball downcourt against pressure from Duke and get a shot off.

I was wondering the same thing. Pretty smart play to shoot a long shot with 4 left in the game. As long as you draw iron the other team has to do a lot just to get a shot off in the remaining seconds.

[jjasper0729]

agreed... the key thing was to get a shot that hit the rim. otherwise, the whistle would blow and they'd be setting up an out of bounds play. I didn't really think about it at first, but then, after the game was over, that popped into my head about just holding it until the very last second.

[merry]

1) State fans are pretty uneducated about the game. Booing an offensive foul call when Paulus took an elbow to the face and bleeding?

The State radio guys (who are usually pretty good IMO) stated that Paulus "sold that one" to the refs when they called the charge. On TV you could clearly see he was bleeding from a cut near the cheekbone and had to come out of the game. After he went to the bench the radio guys commented briefly that it looked like he had a nosebleed or something. Maybe many of the fans didn't have a good angle on the incident and I can understand that, but the radio team is courtside, aren't they?

Just fanning the flames I guess.

[ugadevil]

On the last Duke possession of the game, do you guys think that Duke just couldn't get an open look, like DBR said in the article? I think it was more played just as K wanted it. With a 5 second shot/play clock differential, the smartest thing seemed to be to wait till there was 1 second on the shot clock and to shoot a three. Hit or miss, it's a great way to help finish the game. Hit it, games over. Miss, and just the time of the ball in the air plus the time to grab the rebound takes off like...what...2 more seconds? Giving state only 3-4 seconds to take the ball downcourt against pressure from Duke and get a shot off.

This might seem absurd but, in a situation like that, could you just throw the ball up in the air as high as you can for the last four seconds and not worry about if it hits the rim or not? I don't know the physics of how long it would take, but would that effectively run out the clock? Is that against the rules?

[fogey]

This might seem absurd but, in a situation like that, could you just throw the ball up in the air as high as you can for the last four seconds and not worry about if it hits the rim or not? I don't know the physics of how long it would take, but would that effectively run out the clock? Is that against the rules?
not against the rules, but risky. If the toss hits the scoreboard or other fixture, it's a turnover, clock stops at the instant the ball makes contact, NC State gets possession, presumably at half court.

[TNTDevil]

This might seem absurd but, in a situation like that, could you just throw the ball up in the air as high as you can for the last four seconds and not worry about if it hits the rim or not? I don't know the physics of how long it would take, but would that effectively run out the clock? Is that against the rules?I don't think the scenario you describe is possible. The Shot Clock violation would stop the clock and State would be awarded the ball.

The shot that Jon took was spot on and, halfway down, (we were right behind the basket) prior to it rattling out. The shot clock buzzer sounded as the ball rattled in the cylinder.

We did everything right on that last play and that's why we won.

[Jumbo]

This might seem absurd but, in a situation like that, could you just throw the ball up in the air as high as you can for the last four seconds and not worry about if it hits the rim or not? I don't know the physics of how long it would take, but would that effectively run out the clock? Is that against the rules?

I actually had the same thought. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe if the shot were an airball, thus resulting in a shot clock violation, the game clock would be reset. Could someone verify?

[DoubleDuke Dad]

This might seem absurd but, in a situation like that, could you just throw the ball up in the air as high as you can for the last four seconds and not worry about if it hits the rim or not? I don't know the physics of how long it would take, but would that effectively run out the clock? Is that against the rules?
No, because the time stops when the shot clock expires not when the ball lands.

[Virginian]

In the last two minutes of the game, when things were really close and every possession counted, Duke was called for three fouls, State only one. If State had made their free throws at the end (like they made the first 45 or so free throws they attempted), they would have won the game.

Overall there wasn't that much differential in the number of fouls called on the two teams.

Well, they have to blame someone -- they certainly can't give credit to the Duke guys, I guess.

And the point was made here earlier that some fans don't know the rules very well. I second that heartily. Since I travel a lot, I end up seeing a lot of games (Duke, ACC, Big East, etc.) in sports bars around the country. I'd say that half the fans in full team regalia screaming at the screens in the bars have no clue what constitutes a foul, what makes for a shooting vs. non-shooting foul, etc. When even the TV announcers don't know what constitutes a back-court violation, who can blame the fans for being ignorant? That doesn't stop them (announcers and fans alike) from forming and declaring uninformed opinions of course.

[jaimedun34]

This might seem absurd but, in a situation like that, could you just throw the ball up in the air as high as you can for the last four seconds and not worry about if it hits the rim or not? I don't know the physics of how long it would take, but would that effectively run out the clock? Is that against the rules?

Not only would the shot clock stop, but you might have one of these situations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5bqF4VDSx4

[House G]

Put yourself in Sidney Lowe's shoes... down 1 with 40 seconds to go.

Do you:
a) foul, extend the game
b) play some kind of pressure defense, try to force a turnover (or quick shot) but don't try to foul
c) play normal defense, let Duke run 35 seconds off the clock, leaving yourself with just ~4 seconds left to try to get a winning shot.

Personally, I go with (a). I think (c) is close to conceding the game - after a missed shot, there's just not enough time to get a good look.

I was incredulous that Lowe elected to let most of the clock run out. While this was in progress, I was reminded of the famous Bobby Knight quote: "I was worried about losing until I looked down the floor and saw Dale Brown. Then I knew we had a chance." I believe (a) or (b) would have been better options. I also believe Coach K did exactly what anyone else would have done in this situation--shoot with one second left on the shot clock, narrowing the window State would have to get off a meaningful shot at the end.

[BobbyFan]

This might seem absurd but, in a situation like that, could you just throw the ball up in the air as high as you can for the last four seconds and not worry about if it hits the rim or not? I don't know the physics of how long it would take, but would that effectively run out the clock? Is that against the rules?

Not an absurd thought, but assuming it winds up being an air ball, the refs would have to restrospectively expire the shot clock. With the minimal chance it hits rim, it works great.

Really, short of making the basket, Scheyer played it perfectly. He shot it at the end of the shot clock and with the time of the ball to the basket plus the time for NC State to secure the rebound, they probably had less time to work with than if the shot clock simply expired.

[MChambers]

Find it kind of amazing when the announcers flubbed the call when Zoubs had the ball going to the hoop in the first half and seemed to get stuffed by an NC State player? Live, I thought the play was clean, but on the replay it was obvious that Zoubs got hammered on the arm before the State player hit the ball. The TV announcers seemed to be totally oblivious. (I promise, this is my one and only complaint about the announcers this season.)

[tbyers11]

This might seem absurd but, in a situation like that, could you just throw the ball up in the air as high as you can for the last four seconds and not worry about if it hits the rim or not? I don't know the physics of how long it would take, but would that effectively run out the clock? Is that against the rules?

At the end of the NCSU game yesterday this wouldn't have worked because as others have mentioned the clock would have been stopped by the refs when the shot clock violation occurred.

However, a scenario similar to the one you mentioned happened at the end of the Wisconsin-Texas game in December. Michael Flowers hit the go-ahead three for UW with about 3 seconds left. On the ensuing inbounds pass, Flowers stole the ball near the end line and his momentum was carrying him out of bounds. As he was falling out-of-bounds, he tossed the ball straight up in the air as hard as he could. Even though he was out, the ball was still in the air (and close enough to the end line that the refs were not sure if the ball would come down in or out of bounds) and by the time that it came down the 2 seconds or so left on the clock had expired and the game was over.

[Truth]

Last WEEK this team folds. Down thirteen with twelve minutes to go.

Only eight turnovers all game....we will take that every time. Major props to this week's free throw shooting coach.

Hmm... within the last "WEEK" are you referring to the 30-point win against St. Johns or the 13-point win against Georgia Tech?

[jjasper0729]

I actually had the same thought. I'm not 100&#37; sure, but I believe if the shot were an airball, thus resulting in a shot clock violation, the game clock would be reset. Could someone verify?

If the shot is an airball, the refs would stop the clock with the whistle. Then, they would have the opportunity to review the time when the shot clock violation occured and reset the game clock. That could result in maybe 1 second more, but you don't need that many with a well drawn up play (see DU/UK, DU/CU)

[Jim3k]

Put yourself in Sidney Lowe's shoes... down 1 with 40 seconds to go.

Do you:
a) foul, extend the game
b) play some kind of pressure defense, try to force a turnover (or quick shot) but don't try to foul
c) play normal defense, let Duke run 35 seconds off the clock, leaving yourself with just ~4 seconds left to try to get a winning shot.

Personally, I go with (a). I think (c) is close to conceding the game - after a missed shot, there's just not enough time to get a good look.

I'm aware there is general agreement with your sentiment. But this is an area where professionals can reasonably disagree. In fact Coach K has done this very thing, usually off a made basket, but the idea is still the same. With 4 or 5 seconds left on the clock and you choose not to call time, your team must be on the move instantly and your passer tries to take advantage of a not-yet set defense. There are all sorts of holes that present themselves there.

When Lowe played in the 1883 NC game at the end, something similar happened. When Jon passed to McClure in the Clemson game, something similar happened. Dockery's shot against VT. Fastest man on the floor Avery's (failed) rush. Langdon's desperation drive and turnover. So coach K would probably not disagree with Lowe's decision.

Sometimes they work; most often not.

Besides, If McCauley had called timeout on the rebound, they'd have had to inbound the ball in from the side in the backcourt. That's pretty far and the defense would have had time to set. The matchups would have then been wrong for State. The inbound pass would have been contested and the shot would most likely not been too much better than the heave that was taken.

I think that decision depends on the coach's confidence in his team's ability to score in a helter-skelter situation v. its need for direction. If Lowe thinks his team can get off a shot in that short time, I don't have a problem with it. As it turned out, the Duke defense was alert enough to prevent a decent shot. But to say that State couldn't have pulled off a miracle because Lowe didn't call timeout is to ignore the validity of his thinking.

As others have mentioned, the best part of the play was Jon's willingness to wait for the last instant to shoot. The long rebound forced McCauley to decide too quickly what to do. I think it is also fair to observe that State did not react quickly enough to execute what I'm talking about. They needed someone downcourt for McCauley to find with a touchpass. I don't think anyone was there. I'm pretty sure Lowe must have taught that; I just don't think the players were ready for it.

[dukestheheat]

On the last Duke possession of the game, do you guys think that Duke just couldn't get an open look, like DBR said in the article? I think it was more played just as K wanted it. With a 5 second shot/play clock differential, the smartest thing seemed to be to wait till there was 1 second on the shot clock and to shoot a three. Hit or miss, it's a great way to help finish the game. Hit it, games over. Miss, and just the time of the ball in the air plus the time to grab the rebound takes off like...what...2 more seconds? Giving state only 3-4 seconds to take the ball downcourt against pressure from Duke and get a shot off.

The whole issue there, in my opinion, was merely to run that clock ALL the way down and throw up a shot; little chance for State to grab the rebound off of a high-arching shot, dribble the length of the floor, and cogently set up a great shot for the win.

If anything, we were fortunate State didn't choose to foul Duke when Duke was coming up the floor with that rebound! From the time we got the ball and came up court until the time the clock was stopped, about 17 seconds had elapsed and I consider that time wasted by the Wolfpack. Down by 1, they should have immediately fouled a Duke player and sent that player to the line.

Assuming we'd hit one free throw, they'd then have about 25 seconds to get off a great shot; if we'd hit two free throws, they could then drive the hoop and get a two and maybe get a foul. Either way, they would have been in a much better position to win, but essentially they were not only fighting Duke but the clock there at the end due to, in my opinion, a strategical blunder with the clock.

dth.

[arbee]

This might seem absurd but, in a situation like that, could you just throw the ball up in the air as high as you can for the last four seconds and not worry about if it hits the rim or not? I don't know the physics of how long it would take, but would that effectively run out the clock? Is that against the rules?


I actually had the same thought. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe if the shot were an airball, thus resulting in a shot clock violation, the game clock would be reset. Could someone verify?

There have been several responses to whether the game clock is reset after a shot clock violation. Most have been incorrect. The game clock is not reset in any way. If a player shoots the ball before the shot clock buzzer goes off, and the ball is in the air when the shot clock buzzer sounds, the referee must wait to see if the shot hits the ring or the flange, before determining if there is a violation. If there is a violation, the referee sounds his whistle to stop play. The game clock is not adjusted at all. If the game clock sounds the end of the game, before the referee can blow his whistle, the game is over.

See the rule book for details:
http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2007/2007_m_w_basketball_rules.pdf

Go to Rule 4, Section 59, Article 1 (page BR-100, which is page 101 of the pdf file).

Here is the text, with the example that follows:

Art. 1. A shot clock is one of the two official visible timepieces that display
the amount of time the team in control has to release a try for a field goal so
that it hits the ring or the flange.

A.R. 102. There are 37 seconds (men) or 32 seconds (women) on the game clock and 35 seconds (men) or 30 seconds (women) on the shot clock. Team A uses time before A1 releases the ball for a try for goal. After A1 releases the ball, the shot-clock horn sounds. The ball does not strike the ring or the flange and the official calls a shot-clock violation. The official’s whistle sounds at the same time as the game-clock horn sounds to end the period. Shall the official put two seconds back on the game clock? RULING: No. The shot-clock horn sounded at the expiration of the shot-clock period. However, this does not stop play unless recognized by the official’s whistle. The official’s whistle for the shot-clock violation stopped play. The expiration of playing time was indicated by the official timer’s signal, which shall terminate player activity. The period shall end with the violation.

[astoria26]

Scheyer is so funny: “[We] definitely [made] it as memorable as possible.” Oh, did you ever! You gave him every type of suspense you could!

This game had it all: there was blood within the first 2 minutes, a surprise 2-3 zone that would frustrate us to no end, full court pressure, amazing 100% FT shooting for a long while, a Singler dunk, a King three, a lot of NC State players that apparently weren’t on the scouting report but wound up with career highs, 9 guys who played 8 minutes or more, an intentional foul, a couple comeback bids snuffed out, a litany of insanely gut-wrenching wolf howls piped into the arena, a late barrage of threes, a last critical defensive stop, two nail-biting Nelson free throws, one last possession running down the clock to perfection, and:

One sweet victory on the first day of March that signifies this team’s willingness and poise to fight through a brick wall to get this win. Did I miss anything? 87-86. We wouldn’t have had it any other way.

[Jumbo]

There have been several responses to whether the game clock is reset after a shot clock violation. Most have been incorrect. The game clock is not reset in any way. If a player shoots the ball before the shot clock buzzer goes off, and the ball is in the air when the shot clock buzzer sounds, the referee must wait to see if the shot hits the ring or the flange, before determining if there is a violation. If there is a violation, the referee sounds his whistle to stop play. The game clock is not adjusted at all. If the game clock sounds the end of the game, before the referee can blow his whistle, the game is over.

See the rule book for details:
http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2007/2007_m_w_basketball_rules.pdf

Go to Rule 4, Section 59, Article 1 (page BR-100, which is page 101 of the pdf file).

Here is the text, with the example that follows:

Art. 1. A shot clock is one of the two official visible timepieces that display
the amount of time the team in control has to release a try for a field goal so
that it hits the ring or the flange.

A.R. 102. There are 37 seconds (men) or 32 seconds (women) on the game clock and 35 seconds (men) or 30 seconds (women) on the shot clock. Team A uses time before A1 releases the ball for a try for goal. After A1 releases the ball, the shot-clock horn sounds. The ball does not strike the ring or the flange and the official calls a shot-clock violation. The official’s whistle sounds at the same time as the game-clock horn sounds to end the period. Shall the official put two seconds back on the game clock? RULING: No. The shot-clock horn sounded at the expiration of the shot-clock period. However, this does not stop play unless recognized by the official’s whistle. The official’s whistle for the shot-clock violation stopped play. The expiration of playing time was indicated by the official timer’s signal, which shall terminate player activity. The period shall end with the violation.

Perfect! Thanks for looking that up -- exactly the response I was hoping for.

[dwbstm]

Scheyer is so funny: “[We] definitely [made] it as memorable as possible.” Oh, did you ever! You gave him every type of suspense you could!

This game had it all: there was blood within the first 2 minutes, a surprise 2-3 zone that would frustrate us to no end, full court pressure, amazing 100% FT shooting for a long while, a Singler dunk, a King three, a lot of NC State players that apparently weren’t on the scouting report but wound up with career highs, 9 guys who played 8 minutes or more, an intentional foul, a couple comeback bids snuffed out, a litany of insanely gut-wrenching wolf howls piped into the arena, a late barrage of threes, a last critical defensive stop, two nail-biting Nelson free throws, one last possession running down the clock to perfection, and:

One sweet victory on the first day of March that signifies this team’s willingness and poise to fight through a brick wall to get this win. Did I miss anything? 87-86. We wouldn’t have had it any other way.


Yes, this was an exciting game...however, you forgot to mention the phantom foul on McCauley at the end...Shouldn't an offensive foul be called when the player with the ball hooks his arm around the defender?

[chrisheery]

Yes, this was an exciting game...however, you forgot to mention the phantom foul on McCauley at the end...Shouldn't an offensive foul be called when the player with the ball hooks his arm around the defender?

if that is the first contact that is made, it should be. but, the replay clearly shows that markie was bumped by mccauley prior to the hook, which was more of an effort to stay on his feet. even the announcers who initially said that should have been a hook changed their minds after seeing the replay. check the game tape. the first foul is the one that has to be called because anything after it was influenced by that contact.

[Truth]

Yes, this was an exciting game...however, you forgot to mention the phantom foul on McCauley at the end...Shouldn't an offensive foul be called when the player with the ball hooks his arm around the defender?

I've watched this play many times on DVR. There was definitely a hooking violation; HOWEVER, McCauley first bumped Nelson on the drive. The foul was called for the bump, so in effect, the hook never happened.

[Lulu]

Anyone else think that they ought to start throwing players out for cheap shots like the elbow that bloodied Paulus at the start of the game? It's really getting ridiculous at this point, play is too rough, the intent to injure is too obvious, and I personally think a tad more of it is directed at Duke, but it's all-around. People can point to Henderson last year, but he did after all serve his suspension.

I just think this needs to be discussed and brought to the forefront of attention. Pretty soon we'll have to steal a page from the hockey rulebook and start imposing penalty minutes. Seriously. At this point I think I've seen hockey players sat down for less...

[Jumbo]

Anyone else think that they ought to start throwing players out for cheap shots like the elbow that bloodied Paulus at the start of the game? It's really getting ridiculous at this point, play is too rough, the intent to injure is too obvious, and I personally think a tad more of it is directed at Duke, but it's all-around. People can point to Henderson last year, but he did after all serve his suspension.

I just think this needs to be discussed and brought to the forefront of attention. Pretty soon we'll have to steal a page from the hockey rulebook and start imposing penalty minutes. Seriously. At this point I think I've seen hockey players sat down for less...

I really didn't think the elbow was a "cheap shot." It was a foul, but I don't think the guy was trying to injure Paulus. Stuff like that happens a lot in basketball.

[Jarhead]

I really didn't think the elbow was a "cheap shot." It was a foul, but I don't think the guy was trying to injure Paulus. Stuff like that happens a lot in basketball.
I guess that's because the only way to hold a basketball is with both elbows splayed out and swinging like a helicopter rotor.

[CDu]

I really didn't think the elbow was a "cheap shot." It was a foul, but I don't think the guy was trying to injure Paulus. Stuff like that happens a lot in basketball.

Agreed. It looked like Gonzalez was trying to clear space (which is pretty common), and Paulus leaned/reached in at the same time. Bad timing for Paulus.

[CDu]

I guess that's because the only way to hold a basketball is with both elbows splayed out and swinging like a helicopter rotor.

Actually, that's a pretty common approach. Big guys do it all the time on rebounds. It allows you to apply more pressure on the ball, reducing the likelihood of getting stripped. And, it creates incentive for the defender to give you room.

[Jumbo]

I guess that's because the only way to hold a basketball is with both elbows splayed out and swinging like a helicopter rotor.

That's actually what a lot of coaches teach you to do after grabbing a rebound. You chin the ball with elbows out and turn.

[Jarhead]

With the elbows out, and turn until you hit somebody? No matter, because I think it's still a foul.

[Jumbo]

With the elbows out, and turn until you hit somebody? No matter, because I think it's still a foul.

No, no. You don't try to hit someone. But, like CDu said, it discourages people from reaching for the ball. And, as you said, it's a foul if you nail someone like Gonzalez did. I just don't think it's dirty.

[dukegirlinsc]

I guess that's because the only way to hold a basketball is with both elbows splayed out and swinging like a helicopter rotor.

I don't know why those shots aren't called as fouls more often. I see it in almost every basketball game that I watch. Especially *cough* a certain player from UNC. :confused:

[pfrduke]

I'm aware there is general agreement with your sentiment. But this is an area where professionals can reasonably disagree. In fact Coach K has done this very thing, usually off a made basket, but the idea is still the same. With 4 or 5 seconds left on the clock and you choose not to call time, your team must be on the move instantly and your passer tries to take advantage of a not-yet set defense. There are all sorts of holes that present themselves there.

When Lowe played in the 1883 NC game at the end, something similar happened. When Jon passed to McClure in the Clemson game, something similar happened. Dockery's shot against VT. Fastest man on the floor Avery's (failed) rush. Langdon's desperation drive and turnover. So coach K would probably not disagree with Lowe's decision.

Sometimes they work; most often not.

Besides, If McCauley had called timeout on the rebound, they'd have had to inbound the ball in from the side in the backcourt. That's pretty far and the defense would have had time to set. The matchups would have then been wrong for State. The inbound pass would have been contested and the shot would most likely not been too much better than the heave that was taken.

I think that decision depends on the coach's confidence in his team's ability to score in a helter-skelter situation v. its need for direction. If Lowe thinks his team can get off a shot in that short time, I don't have a problem with it. As it turned out, the Duke defense was alert enough to prevent a decent shot. But to say that State couldn't have pulled off a miracle because Lowe didn't call timeout is to ignore the validity of his thinking.

As others have mentioned, the best part of the play was Jon's willingness to wait for the last instant to shoot. The long rebound forced McCauley to decide too quickly what to do. I think it is also fair to observe that State did not react quickly enough to execute what I'm talking about. They needed someone downcourt for McCauley to find with a touchpass. I don't think anyone was there. I'm pretty sure Lowe must have taught that; I just don't think the players were ready for it.

We may be talking past each other - I don't necessarily disagree with the decision not to call a timeout once they got the ball back with 4 seconds. Duke was on its heels trying to get back on defense, and NCSU got as good a shot as they could once time ran down. It's the decision made with 40 seconds left I take issue with. With 40 seconds to play, Coach Lowe essentially decided the only shot he wanted for the remainder of the game was the scrambled one with just a second or so remaining. He didn't try to extend the game by fouling to give his team several more opportunities to even the score or take the lead (and, as we all know, Duke is not the best free throw shooting team as a whole, and Nelson had the ball for a good 20 seconds on offense). He didn't have his team try to force a turnover, double team, etc. They backed off and played normal defense for 35 seconds, and it cost them. And if Scheyer's shot goes in - game over. You're down 4 with 5 seconds left.

I guess I just don't think that conceding 35 of the 40 remaining seconds in the game is a good decision when you're not winning.

[CDu]

We may be talking past each other - I don't necessarily disagree with the decision not to call a timeout once they got the ball back with 4 seconds. Duke was on its heels trying to get back on defense, and NCSU got as good a shot as they could once time ran down. It's the decision made with 40 seconds left I take issue with. With 40 seconds to play, Coach Lowe essentially decided the only shot he wanted for the remainder of the game was the scrambled one with just a second or so remaining. He didn't try to extend the game by fouling to give his team several more opportunities to even the score or take the lead (and, as we all know, Duke is not the best free throw shooting team as a whole, and Nelson had the ball for a good 20 seconds on offense). He didn't have his team try to force a turnover, double team, etc. They backed off and played normal defense for 35 seconds, and it cost them. And if Scheyer's shot goes in - game over. You're down 4 with 5 seconds left.

I guess I just don't think that conceding 35 of the 40 remaining seconds in the game is a good decision when you're not winning.

Agreed. If I were Lowe, I'd have fouled Nelson as soon as he got the ball. The worst-case scenario (barring a make then a miss and a Duke rebound) is that you get the ball down three with plenty of time left to run a play for a good look at a three. Best case scenario is you get the ball down one with plenty of time to draw up a play to go for the win.

Instead, the Pack got less than five seconds left to get a good look at the basket. That is definitely not the ideal situation to be in, in my opinion.

[_Gary]

I really didn't think the elbow was a "cheap shot." It was a foul, but I don't think the guy was trying to injure Paulus. Stuff like that happens a lot in basketball.

I agree with you in principle that elbows out do not generally equate to "cheap shot." But in this instance I thought Gonzalez was trying to take a swipe at Paulus. I don't have the replay (I'm going to have to start recording every game whether I'm watching it in live time or not), but my impression at the time was that Gonzalez actually took a glance over at Paulus before he lifted the elbow. I'm pretty sure he tee'd that one up.


Gary

[Jim3k]

PFR: You're probably right about fouling early in the possession, particularly since State had two fouls to give. Of course Scheyer was the ball handler and maybe Lowe didn't want to put Scheyer on the line. It was a kind of 'pick your poison' situation.

BTW, after making the post, I was reviewing some of the newspaper stories about the game, I saw that the Greensboro paper (not going to search for the link) said in its first graf that Lowe was trying to call a timeout after McCauley got the rebound. So, much of what I said was a defense of something that did not happen. My bad.

[astoria26]

Hi guys, just wanted to invite everyone to check out my game blog:

http://5on5.blogspot.com/2008/03/duke-at-nc-state-game-blog-good-bad-and.html

Gracias!

[bird]

I agree with you in principle that elbows out do not generally equate to "cheap shot." But in this instance I thought Gonzalez was trying to take a swipe at Paulus. I don't have the replay (I'm going to have to start recording every game whether I'm watching it in live time or not), but my impression at the time was that Gonzalez actually took a glance over at Paulus before he lifted the elbow. I'm pretty sure he tee'd that one up.


Gary


Objectively viewed, it didn't look that bad. HOWEVER, viewed in context of the first game, I was waiting for something to happen to Paulus, and it did. Paulus really got under the collective skin of NC State the first game (not just the hard foul on, I think it was, Costner). Just a real irritant. I put it down as being 100 percent intentional, if motives matter.

I liked that Paulus, when he came back in, immediately hit a 3. Hurley-esque, JJ-esque, moment.

[_Gary]

Objectively viewed, it didn't look that bad.

After the initial live-time hit, I didn't think it was purposeful either. But when they went to replay it showed an angle where Gonzalez actually looked up at Paulus out of the corner of his eye just before he threw the elbows up. I felt he was measuring a shot myself. But you need the replay to see his eyes. That was the key. He knew exactly where Greg was when he lifted his elbows, but I don't think a ref could have seen that and determined intent in real-time action.

Gary

[dukestheheat]

After the initial live-time hit, I didn't think it was purposeful either. But when they went to replay it showed an angle where Gonzalez actually looked up at Paulus out of the corner of his eye just before he threw the elbows up. I felt he was measuring a shot myself. But you need the replay to see his eyes. That was the key. He knew exactly where Greg was when he lifted his elbows, but I don't think a ref could have seen that and determined intent in real-time action.

Gary

I was there and that play happened about 35 feet right in front of me; we sat a few rows back of the State bench and I watched that play unfold from the get-go; I couldn't see Gonzalez's eyes but he was very measured in the way he swung his elbows at Greg; he was very clearly trying to clear out space, hyper-aggressively, and I wondered if that was intentional. It looked like it to me. ?

dth.

[-jk]

I seem to recall that swinging elbows along with the torso isn't considered a foul (it's your space), but throwing elbows without the torso is a foul.

I can't, however, site chapter and verse.

-jk

[bjornolf]

When Lowe played in the 1883 NC game at the end, something similar happened.

I usually don't point out mistakes, but this one just had me crackin' up.

[crackinthepavement]

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but the ONLY positive thing I see from the State game was actually winning...

It just seems like our basketball team is on some sort of inevitable decline. Although we've won the past few games, our opponents have been very mediocre, and we've shown an inability to put the ball in the hoop. We simply haven't shot the ball well (which happens during a season), but we've been missing very high-percentage shots. Nelson and Henderson played well, but their midrange game has completely crumbled. Remember when we were penetrating the ball with ease with those guys, setting up the 3 or slashing to the basket for points? ...That's not happening anymore. Our 3 point shots are coming off of screens at the top of the key or are just pull-up jumpers.

Don't mean to be a downer--certainly, many will disagree. I was impressed with the win. Last year's team would have surely lost. I'm just distressed by this team seemingly falling into the recent pattern at Duke of peaking early, then losing its focus at the end of the season when it truly counts.