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throatybeard
02-27-2008, 10:09 PM
Len Elmore was not harmed in the making of this thread.

slower
02-27-2008, 10:15 PM
on a previous post from the in-game thread, Mike Patrick "thinks Len Elmore is an idiot" because Mike Patrick IS an idiot.

But yes, Len doesn't seem quite impartial in matters Duke-related.

DukeBlood
02-27-2008, 10:17 PM
Len Elmore was not harmed in the making of this thread.

Should he have been? J/k.. Although that was difficult to liston to at times.

Causey, Hope he see's a DR soon.

Will take a 13 point win after shooting 2-16 from 3. Excellent defense for the most part. Have to believe that was Hendersons best defensive game or at lesat right up there.

Paulus looked lost at times.. I dont know. I harp on the kid alot. So im sorry. I just expect alot I guess. GO PAULUS :)

Madrasdukie
02-27-2008, 10:17 PM
Loved the way Henderson played.
Kudos to the team to get a win in a game that was so physical.

rthomas
02-27-2008, 10:18 PM
on a previous post from the in-game thread, Mike Patrick "thinks Len Elmore is an idiot" because Mike Patrick IS an idiot.

But yes, Len doesn't seem quite impartial in matters Duke-related.

Paulus has worked so hard at becoming a better player. Mike Patrick told me so 5 or 6 times this game and the last game and the last game too.

CDu
02-27-2008, 10:21 PM
Gutty effort on a night when the shots weren't falling. The physical nature of the game was not captured in the foul calls - I felt there was a lot more fouling than was called. Player of the game for me was Henderson - he made a lot of plays on the defensive end when we needed to silence Ga Tech, and had some nice moments offensively.

And the "debate" by Elmore and Patrick about what is actually an over-and-back violation was absurd. For one thing, when they actually got to the rulebook, the rulebook clearly stated that the ball isn't considered in the frontcourt until the ball and both feet are across the line. That should have clearly answered the question (and proven Patrick right, for whatever that's worth). But after reading it, neither seemed to get it. Or maybe Elmore got it and didn't want to admit he was wrong (and Patrick just wasn't smart enough to understand it). Yet they kept yapping about it for 5 minutes or so, even though they both agreed that the actual play wasn't an over-and-back. Sheesh.

We survived Ga Tech's physical play. On to the weekend.

jipops
02-27-2008, 10:24 PM
Best defensive performance this year as a team. Scheyer and Henderson were especially tough on D.

GTech only got 3 assists.

91devil
02-27-2008, 10:24 PM
Paulus has worked so hard at becoming a better player. Mike Patrick told me so 5 or 6 times this game and the last game and the last game too.

What do you think Coach K and Coach Hewitt were chatting about there at the end of the game?

Coach K: Good game, Paul. Who do you think is worse, Mike Patrick or Len Elmore?

Coach Hewitt: Digger Phelps.

michal
02-27-2008, 10:30 PM
Great game by Henderson. Nice to see him adjusting to the wrist injury by taking fewer jump shots and using his athleticism to score and play defense.

Patrick and Elmore were painful.... particularly the debate about crossing halfcourt, completely not being able to wrap their minds around the fact that their argument was about a hypothetical and not what happened in the game.

Nice effort by the team on a night when the 3 was not going down.

dukelifer
02-27-2008, 10:31 PM
Duke struggled tonight but what really showed is why they need Henderson to play well. His athleticism and defense/rebounding is key to a successful run. He looked much better today. Perhaps the wrist is healing. Duke will shoot better than tonight- but fortunately this was a home game. The D was pretty good is stretches but Duke still gives up a lot of inside points - here again the strong rebounding of Henderson is big. Paulus played well in the second half- a good team win against a pretty physical team. Two road games in a row with unpredictable teams. State has been struggling of late but will be up for this one. Virgina is playing well of late and seniors tend to play very well when they realize their college careers are coming to an end. Expect some tough games.

Duvall
02-27-2008, 10:31 PM
If you finish a game with Georgia Tech with a win and no new injuries, it's a good night.

It was a good night.

dyedwab
02-27-2008, 10:32 PM
Best defensive performance this year as a team. Scheyer and Henderson were especially tough on D.

GTech only got 3 assists.

Exactly what I was thinking. Also, we didn't stop playing defense till we got the ball, so we were hustling for loose balls and tips, and really crashing the boards.

DukeFencer
02-27-2008, 10:32 PM
Best wishes to a full recovery for the Blue Devil!

Ignatius07
02-27-2008, 10:36 PM
I was very happy with the effort. Some games, the 3s will not fall - you have to make up for that with good decisions and great defense, which we did tonight.

Henderson had a great all-around game, including a few that won't show up on the stat sheet.


Great game by Henderson. Nice to see him adjusting to the wrist injury by taking fewer jump shots and using his athleticism to score and play defense.

I'd like him to take more pull-up shots off his drives, though I agree I wasn't ecstatic seeing all those 3s recently. He showed a couple times tonight that he can get open for a mid-range jumper, and clearly - based on his free throws recently and hitting that open shot - he can still hit it. I just wish he'd take that when it's there. He was more assertive tonight than he has been, but still not at pre-injury level in that regard. Still, definitely an encouraging effort by him on offense and defense.

devildeac
02-27-2008, 10:38 PM
Len Elmore was not harmed in the making of this thread.

but he should have been...

Devil07
02-27-2008, 10:38 PM
Ugly game. We really didn't seem "on," but still a good win. Being at home and having the crowd certainly did help. And the defense was a strong point although GaTech didn't do themselves any favors with missed easy shots. We can't count on teams missing so many close ones. On our side, the shooting will come, but for me the most encouraging sign was to see G string together 2 good games. We really need him to be in on for us to have a good run in March. He was the most dominant force on our team tonight and that's very refreshing to see.

Other thoughts: Nelson is still getting his but hasn't been asserting his will on the game as much recently.
-Singler seems to be struggling a bit recently. Hopefully it's a hump and he'll rebound. Not that he's playing poorly by any means, but he also has not been as effective as he can be.
-Same old dependable contribution from Scheyer. It's so easy to take him for granted, but he really does all the little things we need.
-All in all I'm happy we won but don't feel overly satisfied. A win's a win, but we still have a long way to go to be back in top form for the tourney.

Finally, MOTM (or should it be WOTM) should go to Stacey Dale (the sideline reporter) for finally telling Mike and Len to shut up. I think I speak for most of America in saying that her contribution was greatly appreciated.

yancem
02-27-2008, 10:40 PM
Well I guess we can win a game without hitting many 3's! Man I hope our guys can re-find their shooting touch, 2-16 3's is really bad! On the plus side we only turned the ball over 8 times but caused 20.

gofurman
02-27-2008, 10:41 PM
) Go Henderson - Duke is so much better when Henderson is aggressive

) GLAD to hear the announcers (Len) harp on the refs for not calling more fouls in general - too much rough play allowed in the whole league. I wish they would do like Len said and call a couple of quick fouls early and shut down play that could possibly hurt someone

ChrisP
02-27-2008, 10:50 PM
) Go Henderson - Duke is so much better when Henderson is aggressive

) GLAD to hear the announcers (Len) harp on the refs for not calling more fouls in general - too much rough play allowed in the whole league. I wish they would do like Len said and call a couple of quick fouls early and shut down play that could possibly hurt someone

Cuz...I didn't hear that. I heard him harping about the eternal block/charge conundrum but my impression was that Lenny was more interested in giving the impression that Duke was getting most (if not all the calls), or at least, the KEY calls in the game. There was a foul discrepancy and a discrepancy in the number of FT's taken, but I really thought is was because Duke was aggressively attacking the basket and drawing a lot more fouls - in particular, more shooting fouls than GT.

ugadevil
02-27-2008, 10:57 PM
)

) GLAD to hear the announcers (Len) harp on the refs for not calling more fouls in general - too much rough play allowed in the whole league. I wish they would do like Len said and call a couple of quick fouls early and shut down play that could possibly hurt someone

I think tonight showed that Len Elmore is not qualified to harp on the officiating in any game. He does not understand the definitions of the rules and how they are supposed to be called.

CDu
02-27-2008, 11:03 PM
I think tonight showed that Len Elmore is not qualified to harp on the officiating in any game. He does not understand the definitions of the rules and how they are supposed to be called.

Agreed. I noted two glaring instances in which he misinterpreted the rules.

First, on the intentional foul, he said that "as long as the player is going for the ball, it's not an intentional foul." Well, that's not actually the extent of the rule anymore. They've amended the rule to include any excessive contact to be an intentional foul (sort of like the flagrant foul in the NBA).

Second, he misinterpreted the over-and-back rules. As discussed (and subsequently read from the rulebook verbatim by Elmore), it's not over-and-back unless both the ball and the player cross into the frontcourt and then either the ball or the player step into the backcourt again.

The first is somewhat tolerable given that it's a new adaptation of the rule (although a professional color commentator should know the rule). The second is unacceptable for a former professional basketball player not to know, as the rule hasn't changed in years.

chrisheery
02-27-2008, 11:13 PM
) Go Henderson - Duke is so much better when Henderson is aggressive

) GLAD to hear the announcers (Len) harp on the refs for not calling more fouls in general - too much rough play allowed in the whole league. I wish they would do like Len said and call a couple of quick fouls early and shut down play that could possibly hurt someone


Cuz...I didn't hear that. I heard him harping about the eternal block/charge conundrum but my impression was that Lenny was more interested in giving the impression that Duke was getting most (if not all the calls), or at least, the KEY calls in the game. There was a foul discrepancy and a discrepancy in the number of FT's taken, but I really thought is was because Duke was aggressively attacking the basket and drawing a lot more fouls - in particular, more shooting fouls than GT.

he did both. he started out talking about how duke gets too many calls, lost his train of thought, started talking about how the acc is too physical in general, and then lost his train of thought again and went back to the block/charge argument (which was also an absurd argument by elmore/patrick).

to address this issues:

1. the acc is too physical these days. we (the acc) lose what makes our conference great when we take away the skill by allowing brutish teams to get away with thugary (is that a word?). basketball can be partially physical, but it should not be determined by who is stronger. simply, a foul is contact that gives a player an advantage. by that rule, there are a ton of calls that can be made every game that are not. i agree that the acc refs have gotten too far away from the basis of what a foul is and calling it as such.

2. patrick and elmore should never do a game together again. elmore is so biased against duke and patrick loves duke so much, its amazing this hasn't happened before.

3. that call elmore was harping on, of any in the game, was the best no call there was. singler slightly over committed and the guy lowered his shoulder into him. both were at fault but neither enough to gain an advantage.

diesel
02-28-2008, 02:14 AM
Hurt wrist or not, I was wondering if I have ever seen Gerald Henderson play a better game at Duke. I’m really looking forward to seeing not only what he does in the rest of this season, but in his senior year.

I’ve been reluctant to criticize Elmore, but he repeatedly called attention tonight to the disparity in FT calls for Duke, regardless of who was at fault in the calls. He is clearly feeding the “Duke gets all the calls” crusade.

Finally, it was a pleasure for me at last to see Matt Causey play. But is anybody else concerned at the fact that he was allowed to return to the game after that apparent concussion? The symptoms like eye-rolling we saw on the screen alarmed me and I must question Paul Hewitt’s putting him back in the game after the collision with Greg Paulus.

Bob Green
02-28-2008, 02:32 AM
I don't find Elmore to be anti-Duke in his comments. Obviously, many posters on DBR disagree with me. Perhaps you guys are over-sensitive or my tolerance threshold is high. I actually leave the sound on when Elmore is commentating. When Vitale or Packer are doing the color commentary, I immediately mute my TV. Packer irritates me because I believe he forgot where he came from and never misses a chance to badmouth the ACC. Vitale is just plain annoying.

Saratoga2
02-28-2008, 06:35 AM
1. the acc is too physical these days. we (the acc) lose what makes our conference great when we take away the skill by allowing brutish teams to get away with thugary (is that a word?). basketball can be partially physical, but it should not be determined by who is stronger. simply, a foul is contact that gives a player an advantage. by that rule, there are a ton of calls that can be made every game that are not. i agree that the acc refs have gotten too far away from the basis of what a foul is and calling it as such.

The 3 points shots weren't falling last night but the team compensated by going to the basket more, both by forcing turnovers and by being determined to get points inside. That resulted in some nice dunks and trips to the foul line. The game appeared quite physical and rough as most of our ACC games have become these days. Our defense was very active so GT had problems with turnovers compared to us. The announcers seemed to be hung up on Duke getting to the lline more, but it was because we were going to the basket more than GT.

Kudos to our team with so many good ball handlers we had relatively few turnovers. It seems like coach K has stressed communication and avoidance of turnovers. Special notice should be given to Paulus who played flawlessly with the ball the entire game. He also made some nice passes and got his points as well. Also, it appears that David McClure understands that he also must provide some offensive play along with his defense and rebounding.He made several offensive plays last night and was more aggressive and successful when he did so.

Scheyer, Singler, Henderson and Thomas all had good games and it shows that we can win without the three if we play solid defense, are solid with the ball and take the ball to the basket. It may not be a 25 point win but it is effective.

bjornolf
02-28-2008, 07:08 AM
Gutty performance after the concussion, but I have a few questions about it:

1. When was the last time a player tried to draw a charge in the open court and got a concussion for his troubles without at least the offensive player falling on him or him landing on somebody? I've seen guys hit things OFF the court trying to draw a charge, but Paulus just ran into him, didn't even jump and land on him.

2. How the HECK can GT's trainers and Hewitt let him play? That's just insane. I've done some studying up on concussions as a former football and rugby player who's had one myself. Doctors and trainers KNOW now that the first couple days are the MOST critical during a concussion, as it's the secondary concussions that can occur that can really cause the harm (part of the reason so many boxers have trouble). Man, they were risking possible permanent brain damage sending that kid back out there. AND his parents were there. I would think, if nothing else, the parents would have been begging Hewitt to take him off.

3. Refs kick players off the court all the time when they have a little cut because of the whole HIV scare. Refs call bouts when a fighter looks dazed. Why can't refs kick players off the court when they clearly shouldn't be on the court? Maybe the GT bench couldn't see all the trouble he was having on the court, but the refs sure as heck could. Couldn't they at least have pulled Hewitt aside and strongly ADVISED him to take the kid off?

4. What the hell do they do during practices at GT? The kid's suffered cartilege damage to his left knee, a dislocated kneecap, a separated shoulder, and a dislocated jaw, ALL in practice! Maybe Hewitt should have Causey sit practices out and just play in games and participate in conditioning and walk-thrus. I always thought AI was a chump for his comments about practice, but MAN, maybe Causey should be the one person to follow that advice.

Just my $0.01.

ugadevil
02-28-2008, 07:29 AM
I don't find Elmore to be anti-Duke in his comments. Obviously, many posters on DBR disagree with me. Perhaps you guys are over-sensitive or my tolerance threshold is high. I actually leave the sound on when Elmore is commentating. When Vitale or Packer are doing the color commentary, I immediately mute my TV. Packer irritates me because I believe he forgot where he came from and never misses a chance to badmouth the ACC. Vitale is just plain annoying.


I'm not sensitive about Elmore's feelings towards Duke, although I do think he's biased (which is normal seeing as how he went to a rival institution). However, if he is going to criticize the officiating so much, it would be nice if he actually articulated the rules of the game correctly.

gw67
02-28-2008, 07:31 AM
It was an ugly game to watch. The Devils defense was superb but there was a lot of pushing under the basket and hands on defense by both sides. The coaching staff may have picked up some things from looking at game films because the Tech inside non-defense allowed a bunch of uncontested layups/dunks by wings coming along the baseline and getting passes from up top. Sorta like a backdoor from the spread offense that Duke runs. In addition to being a poor defensive team, Tech had trouble getting into their offense. It wasn’t a pretty sight if I am a Tech fan.

The Devils seemed to run a couple of plays from their old offense as well. In one case, Singler ran off some inside screens and got an open shot from the side. I found it interesting that neither Smith nor Zoubek got time in the second half. Neither played well in the first half but I would have figured that they would have gotten some minutes to rest the starters.

It is hard to buy into the notion that Henderson’s wrist, while injured, is bothering him during the game. If so, it doesn’t seem prudent to throw down dunks when he could either hit his wrist on the rim or have an opposing player hit his wrist during the shot.

gw67

Salty Breezes
02-28-2008, 07:34 AM
This win made me as happy as any this year (except UNC), because we definitely had that defensive spark back for long stretches of the game. That was my fondest memory of the Laettner/Hurley/Hill and the Battier/Williams/Boozer/Dunleavy teams -- a defensive intensity that seemed to scare the bejeezus out of the other team. I've wondered all year how we could win games when the three wasn't falling. The answer, apparently, is simple -- we get a whole lot of extra posessions through intense defense.

I'd say this was our most complete defensive effort of the year. I'd also say it was better than any defensive effort last year, with the possible exception of the Georgetown game. Going out on a limb here, I'd say this was our most complete defensive game since Jan 11, 06, when we held a ranked UMD team to 30% shooting and turned them over 29 times.

Man, I love good defense!

fogey
02-28-2008, 07:39 AM
The 3 points shots weren't falling last night but the team compensated by going to the basket more, both by forcing turnovers and by being determined to get points inside. That resulted in some nice dunks and trips to the foul line. The game appeared quite physical and rough as most of our ACC games have become these days.

While GT gets credit for aggressive defense, our shooters tend to rush their 3 pointers without rythm or getting their footwork (balance, alignment) set. You can pretty much predict Kyle's misses immediately upon release- when he squares and shoots in rythm, very high%; when his feet are not aligned, or he rushes the shot, very low%. Same for GP and JS. More patience and ball movement may be the solution, so we can create more "open looks" and take advantage. I know, easy for me to say....

dukegirlinsc
02-28-2008, 07:42 AM
I'm not sensitive about Elmore's feelings towards Duke, although I do think he's biased (which is normal seeing as how he went to a rival institution). However, if he is going to criticize the officiating so much, it would be nice if he actually articulated the rules of the game correctly.

Very well said, and I agree 100%. The biased opinions (or somewhat biased, whichever...) don't annoy me as much as not knowing the rules of the game. That's something you can change, easily, by reading a book.

bjornolf
02-28-2008, 07:52 AM
And what about the powers that be picking the Georgetown dunk as the dunk of the night? I thought GH's dunk on the alley oop in the 1st half was way better, especially with the pullup to avoid the contact. There was also a GT player that dunked over Zoubek that I thought was better. Heck, I thought Nelson's dunk at the 4:20 mark of the 2nd half was just as good.

ArnieMc
02-28-2008, 07:55 AM
It is hard to buy into the notion that Henderson’s wrist, while injured, is bothering him during the game. If so, it doesn’t seem prudent to throw down dunks when he could either hit his wrist on the rim or have an opposing player hit his wrist during the shot.

gw67

Did you notice how he was dunking? He was throwing it down and then pulling his hand back instead of following through and grabbing the rim - at least on one I noticed. I suspect that he injured the wrist throwing down a big one and has had to be careful ever since.

Carlos
02-28-2008, 08:08 AM
Count me in on the "WTF was Hewitt thinking" camp in letting Causey back into the game. I was at the game so I didn't get the benefit of the close up shots until I watched the highlights online and it was scary to see the look in his eyes. He had that kind of vacant and dazed look like a Terp player in the classroom.

It seemed irresponsible on Hewitt's part to say the least.

dyedwab
02-28-2008, 08:24 AM
I'm with those of you who couldn't believe he went back in the game. It was outright scary to see how he was reacting on the bench and at the line.

And for all the deserved criticism of Patrick and Elmore, I thought that Patrick was dead on and pretty emphatic about the fact that the choice of whether he went back in the game or not had to be taken out of his hands by the coaching and medical staff.

Causey didn't appear to sustain another big hit during his time in the game, so we can be thankful that what appeared to be a bad decision didn't have more adverse consequences

bjornolf
02-28-2008, 08:26 AM
Gutty performance after the concussion, but I have a few questions about it:

1. When was the last time a player tried to draw a charge in the open court and got a concussion for his troubles without at least the offensive player falling on him or him landing on somebody? I've seen guys hit things OFF the court trying to draw a charge, but Paulus just ran into him, didn't even jump and land on him.

2. How the HECK can GT's trainers and Hewitt let him play? That's just insane. I've done some studying up on concussions as a former football and rugby player who's had one myself. Doctors and trainers KNOW now that the first couple days are the MOST critical during a concussion, as it's the secondary concussions that can occur that can really cause the harm (part of the reason so many boxers have trouble). Man, they were risking possible permanent brain damage sending that kid back out there. AND his parents were there. I would think, if nothing else, the parents would have been begging Hewitt to take him off.

3. Refs kick players off the court all the time when they have a little cut because of the whole HIV scare. Refs call bouts when a fighter looks dazed. Why can't refs kick players off the court when they clearly shouldn't be on the court? Maybe the GT bench couldn't see all the trouble he was having on the court, but the refs sure as heck could. Couldn't they at least have pulled Hewitt aside and strongly ADVISED him to take the kid off?

4. What the hell do they do during practices at GT? The kid's suffered cartilege damage to his left knee, a dislocated kneecap, a separated shoulder, and a dislocated jaw, ALL in practice! Maybe Hewitt should have Causey sit practices out and just play in games and participate in conditioning and walk-thrus. I always thought AI was a chump for his comments about practice, but MAN, maybe Causey should be the one person to follow that advice.

Just my $0.01.

The NFL, arguably the most violent sport out there (some might argue NHL or European or South American futbol ;) ), has strict rules about concussions. No player can return to a game that has a concussion, and a player is not allowed to return to practice or game play unless he shows no symptoms AND has a normal neurological test. I think ALL sports need a rule like that. There were a few hits Causey took in the 2nd half that REALLY had me cringing. Man, that was dangerous. If nothing else, Hewitt opened GT up to a possible lawsuit if something worse HAD happened. Not good.

should_be_working
02-28-2008, 08:57 AM
Ugly game. We really didn't seem "on," but still a good win. Being at home and having the crowd certainly did help. And the defense was a strong point although GaTech didn't do themselves any favors with missed easy shots. We can't count on teams missing so many close ones. On our side, the shooting will come, but for me the most encouraging sign was to see G string together 2 good games. We really need him to be in on for us to have a good run in March. He was the most dominant force on our team tonight and that's very refreshing to see.

I had to read that a couple times to get past the g-string, it cracked me up!

Anyway, this was one boring game, i found myself yawning in the second half, i never thought we were going to lose but a couple of bounces here and there and we could have had a tight one. Good win, but the shooting needs to hurry up and come back.

_Gary
02-28-2008, 08:59 AM
I don't find Elmore to be anti-Duke in his comments.

Bob, you really don't think Elmore is even the slightest bit biased against Duke? His comments over the last several years have left absolutely no doubt in my mind. Granted, I think there are several guys who are biased against Duke, but Elmore has actually passed Packer on my list (and that's saying something, because I do think deep down Packer hates Duke). But last night was really bad in that regard, IMHO. His insistence that the take out of Singler wasn't an intentional foul was way out there. He obviously doesn't get the "excessive" contact part of intentional foul rules. For me, it's not just what he says, but the way he says it. If he's not anti-Duke, I don't know who is in the broadcast media.

Just my two cents.

Gary

The Gordog
02-28-2008, 09:09 AM
The NFL, arguably the most violent sport out there (some might argue NHL or European or South American futbol ;) ), has strict rules about concussions. No player can return to a game that has a concussion, and a player is not allowed to return to practice or game play unless he shows no symptoms AND has a normal neurological test. I think ALL sports need a rule like that. There were a few hits Causey took in the 2nd half that REALLY had me cringing. Man, that was dangerous. If nothing else, Hewitt opened GT up to a possible lawsuit if something worse HAD happened. Not good.

I agree 100%. Putting him back in was absolutely disgusting. Hewitt is a dangerous person and should be censured for this behavior. Some things are more important than winning, the kids future was at stake for Pete's sake!

FerryFor50
02-28-2008, 09:11 AM
he did both. he started out talking about how duke gets too many calls, lost his train of thought, started talking about how the acc is too physical in general, and then lost his train of thought again and went back to the block/charge argument (which was also an absurd argument by elmore/patrick).

to address this issues:

1. the acc is too physical these days. we (the acc) lose what makes our conference great when we take away the skill by allowing brutish teams to get away with thugary (is that a word?). basketball can be partially physical, but it should not be determined by who is stronger. simply, a foul is contact that gives a player an advantage. by that rule, there are a ton of calls that can be made every game that are not. i agree that the acc refs have gotten too far away from the basis of what a foul is and calling it as such.

2. patrick and elmore should never do a game together again. elmore is so biased against duke and patrick loves duke so much, its amazing this hasn't happened before.

3. that call elmore was harping on, of any in the game, was the best no call there was. singler slightly over committed and the guy lowered his shoulder into him. both were at fault but neither enough to gain an advantage.

I would say that because the ACC is so physical is why Tyler Hansbrough is in the running for NCAA player of the year.

I can't think of anyone else who initiates more contact on offense and flops more on defense, yet only fouls out once a year.

It's stupid.

- UNC rant over -

Lid
02-28-2008, 09:20 AM
I was screaming at Hewitt and at Causey's parents during that game -- agree with everyone who said it was downright irresponsible for Hewitt to allow him to go in. Causey's parents were in an awful position there. It's one of the few times I've had a "Hallelujah!" moment with Mike Patrick, because he was the only adult there who seemed to realize that the decision to return shouldn't be left up to the kid with the concussion. Unconscionable.

Leaving aside Elmore's bias (which I think is noticeable, if not extreme), I just feel that he is the leader of the pack when it comes to discussing officiating and not the game. I don't care if he doesn't like my team (in fact, given what I know of him, it would worry me if he did), but I only wish he'd internalize the fact that he's paid to call the game, not the refs.

For the important things: our communication seemed markedly improved last night, which definitely doesn't hurt. It was great to see K so animated with Henderson -- the psychologist wins again!

lmb
02-28-2008, 09:46 AM
When he first went back in after the concussion, he only played for a brief time. Then they showed him heading back to the bench. He sat down and you could clearly read his lips. He said, "I can't see straight,". Scary stuff!

Also, others mentioned Gerald's wrist related to dunking the ball. Count me as one who doesn't understand that either. How could you need surgery on your wrist and yet it be okay (and seemingly not hurt) to dunk and also to hang on the rim by your wrist. Anybody, with some medical knowledge have an explanation for that?

Chard
02-28-2008, 09:46 AM
I was really worried for Causey. That did not look good at all. I hope he is able to recover. I had a bad feeling that we would hear something this morning about him being in the hospital. I hope he is alright.

Anyone notice how Dave McClure is taking more shots? I wonder if his meeting with Coach K had anything to do with this. Ditto on Henderson's defense.

Indoor66
02-28-2008, 09:58 AM
Hurt wrist or not, I was wondering if I have ever seen Gerald Henderson play a better game at Duke. I’m really looking forward to seeing not only what he does in the rest of this season, but in his senior year.

I’ve been reluctant to criticize Elmore, but he repeatedly called attention tonight to the disparity in FT calls for Duke, regardless of who was at fault in the calls. He is clearly feeding the “Duke gets all the calls” crusade.

Finally, it was a pleasure for me at last to see Matt Causey play. But is anybody else concerned at the fact that he was allowed to return to the game after that apparent concussion? The symptoms like eye-rolling we saw on the screen alarmed me and I must question Paul Hewitt’s putting him back in the game after the collision with Greg Paulus.

And just think, he has his junior season to play before he gets to his senior season. :rolleyes:

IStillHateJimBain
02-28-2008, 10:11 AM
Had to work and couldn't see the game.
A couple of things stand out from the box score:

*Zero turnovers and six assists from Paulus and Nelson in a combined 61 minutes.
*Held GT to 18-for-47 on 2-point FGs while allowing just 11 free throws.
*At least six REBs each by Singler, Thomas, Nelson and Scheyer.
*FOURTEEN steals, four by Singler.
*THREE assists and 20 turnovers by GT
*16-9 edge in second-chance points.
*Largest lead by GT: 1

diesel
02-28-2008, 10:47 AM
To Indoor 66, I had indeed forgotten that Hendo was a sophomore this year. His maturity must have led me to believe otherwise.

On the rest of this thread, I am glad that others share my concern about Causey being allowed to play after the concussion. There are some things more important than basketball—not many, I’ll grant you, but the health of the participants ranks up there for me.

On a lighter note on a serious topic, I was glad to see Carlos’ analogy to the effect that Causey “had that kind of vacant and dazed look like a Terp player in the classroom.” I thought that was brilliant.

But may I seize this opportunity of flattering Carlos to ask him and other DBR honchos why the press clippings following games no longer feature Luciana Chavez? It can’t be timing. I saw her piece online before the press clippings on last night’s game were on DBR. There are also newspapers in the press clippings I don’t even recognize.

So what has Chavez done to DBR to deserve this fate? She is one of the few N&O reporters I actually appreciate. I guess it can’t be a dislike of the N&O since DBR still features Saunders, whom I stopped reading some time ago. So what gives?

Bluedog
02-28-2008, 10:55 AM
How full was the student section for this game? During highlight clips when they showed Causey running up and down on the sidelines after suffering the concussion, it looked as if the non-TV side student section was pretty empty in the corner beyond the baseline....I was somewhat disappointed to see that...

Truth
02-28-2008, 11:06 AM
...for me the most encouraging sign was to see G string...

An encouraging sign indeed!

billy
02-28-2008, 11:26 AM
Regarding Causey's return to play, there are no universally accepted criteria for concussions at present. There have been several "consensus" statements in the past few years but none are considered authoritative (at least for sports medicine testing purposes). Generally, if there is no loss of consciousness, no previous concussion, and any symptoms associated with a head injury last less than 10 minutes (i.e. completely resolve), a player is allowed to exercise (Causey running up and down beside the bench, for example). If the symptoms don't return with exercise, the player is often "cleared" to play. (I'm not saying that Causey wasn't having symptoms, eye blinking, whatever, just stating what is usually going through the mind of a trainer or team doc in this situation.) These criteria help to reduce the liklihood of a second impact syndrome from happening (as mentioned by an earlier post).

DukeDevil
02-28-2008, 11:31 AM
When he first went back in after the concussion, he only played for a brief time. Then they showed him heading back to the bench. He sat down and you could clearly read his lips. He said, "I can't see straight,". Scary stuff!

Also, others mentioned Gerald's wrist related to dunking the ball. Count me as one who doesn't understand that either. How could you need surgery on your wrist and yet it be okay (and seemingly not hurt) to dunk and also to hang on the rim by your wrist. Anybody, with some medical knowledge have an explanation for that?

Not yet finished with med school but my impression is that the brace keeps him for rotating his hand and twisting his wrist, as well as preventing dorsiflexion (as demonstrated by the flap that goes over the first third of his hand). As a result, I imagine he doesn't have much pain palmar flexing his hand (bending it forward) which would make me think he doesn't have pain with things like making a fist, grabbing the rim, throwing down the ball, etc. It also makes me think that might be why he was shooting less, as this involves dorsiflexion of the hand.

I could also be talking out of my derriere (to quote Battier).

Constantstrain 81
02-28-2008, 11:32 AM
After watching Nolan the last several games ...

I believe that he needs to better understand the flow of the game at times. There are games that he looks marvelous in and games he looks out of sync. Yet, he plays the same in both. It seems that it is a matter of understanding how the game is being played and what his PG role is in it. It's fixable.

DukeDevilDeb
02-28-2008, 11:37 AM
How full was the student section for this game? During highlight clips when they showed Causey running up and down on the sidelines after suffering the concussion, it looked as if the non-TV side student section was pretty empty in the corner beyond the baseline....I was somewhat disappointed to see that...

The students section was full, very full. But remember that Paulus and Causey had the collision with 2 seconds left in the half... So the empty student seats you saw were because students were running for pizza, bathroom, whatever at the half.

Chitowndevil
02-28-2008, 11:40 AM
1. Elmore isn't biased against Duke. He's just bad. It was abundantly clear that he understood none of (a) what constitutes a backcourt violation, (b) the rules on intentional fouls, or (c) the concept that a foul is contact initiated by a player that gives that player an advantage.

2. Patrick is decent when he has a good color guy and horrible when he doesn't. I like his play-by-play, but the minute he has to start talking about anything else things degenerate very quickly (see his "What's up with Britney??" comment during a close college football game last fall).

3. I took a lot of solace in this game as we were able to beat a decent team with our defense on an off shooting night. This is very much like what we might have to do in a second round NCAA game.

4. I also agree that the ACC is too physical. I don't blame Psycho T for that, he just happens to be playing at a time when the officiating favors his style of play. I do think the officiating needs to be tightened up substantially or you're going to see more VT-type thuggery from everybody. I do NOT want to see the ACC turn into the damn Big 10.

pamtar
02-28-2008, 12:25 PM
Goodman article - G says he's at 100%

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7850412/Henderson-and-defense-have-Duke-back-on-track

gadzooks
02-29-2008, 07:53 AM
Hewitt says he wasn't aware of the eye-fluttering and wouldn't have played Causey had he seen it. Causey claims "I got some weird eye movements anyway...I was just trying to get my perception, my vision, back." Sure, kid. Story. (http://www.ajc.com/gatch/content/sports/gatech/stories/2008/02/28/techhoops_0229.html)

I agree with previous posters, I think it's questionable judgment to rely so much on the player saying he was OK. Of course he's going to say he's fine, he wants to get back out on the court--and the guy just sustained a head injury, for pete's sake. I won't say Hewitt was terribly negligent, but I wish he had decided to err on the side of caution, because I was genuinely worried for that kid and very surprised to see him back out on the court.

billy
02-29-2008, 08:01 AM
I agree with previous posters, I think it's questionable judgment to rely so much on the player saying he was OK. Of course he's going to say he's fine, he wants to get back out on the court--and the guy just sustained a head injury, for pete's sake. I won't say Hewitt was terribly negligent, but I wish he had decided to err on the side of caution, because I was genuinely worried for that kid and very surprised to see him back out on the court.

I wouldn't say Hewitt was negligent at all. The Tech staff did cognitive testing (as quoted in the article you linked) and had Causey perform exercise to see if any symptoms occured with exertion. This is the standard of care for this type of injury.

ChrisP
02-29-2008, 08:08 AM
I'm not sensitive about Elmore's feelings towards Duke, although I do think he's biased (which is normal seeing as how he went to a rival institution). However, if he is going to criticize the officiating so much, it would be nice if he actually articulated the rules of the game correctly.

Lenny would criticize the officiating BOTH ways and not just question the calls that are in Duke's favor. I'm sorry, I know I'm biased, but I simply can't believe some of the people on this board who don't seem to recognize the Lenny constantly harps on calls that go our way and very rarely questions the ones that go against us. Are you sure you guys are really listening to him?