UNC Wins Title, Hans & Co. leave OR Hans & Co stay and he breaks JJ's record

[SilkyJ]

Was watching a bit of the Wake/UNC game yesterday and they posted Hansbrough's scoring mark and it reminded me that he has a very legit shot to break JJ's scoring record next year, if he stays.

Depending on how many games they play in the ACC/NCAA tournament this year. If they play two games in each, which is conservative, and Hansbrough gets 20pts each game, then he would basically need to average 20-21ppg next year, assuming about a 33 game schedule. He's not lock to break the record in that scenario, but barring an injury its hard to imagine him not breaking it.

SO my question to the DBR community is, would you prefer to give UNC another title, giving them 2 more than us, but then get to watch Hansbrough & Co. depart, leave JJ's scoring record in tact, and make us a better team then them for the very near future, or would you rather they not win, everyone stays (No significant seniors graduating, right?), they have another great year next year, and Hansbrough probably breaks JJ's record.

(of course its not a lock that hans & co will stay/go no matter what happens...but lets pretend)

[TwoDukeTattoos]

Was watching a bit of the Wake/UNC game yesterday and they posted Hansbrough's scoring mark and it reminded me that he has a very legit shot to break JJ's scoring record next year, if he stays.

Depending on how many games they play in the ACC/NCAA tournament this year. If they play two games in each, which is conservative, and Hansbrough gets 20pts each game, then he would basically need to average 20-21ppg next year, assuming about a 33 game schedule. He's not lock to break the record in that scenario, but barring an injury its hard to imagine him not breaking it.

SO my question to the DBR community is, would you prefer to give UNC another title, giving them 2 more than us, but then get to watch Hansbrough & Co. depart, leave JJ's scoring record in tact, and make us a better team then them for the very near future, or would you rather they not win, everyone stays (No significant seniors graduating, right?), they have another great year next year, and Hansbrough probably breaks JJ's record.

(of course its not a lock that hans & co will stay/go no matter what happens...but lets pretend)

No matter what, I would never wish for UNC to win a title for any reason.

[SilkyJ]

For the record, I struggled but picked Hans leaving early. JJ is my boy and I want to see him hold that record for a long, long time.

[SilkyJ]

No matter what, I would never wish for UNC to win a title for any reason.

fair enough, fair enough...it literally gave me pain to click "vote"

[EarlJam]

No matter what, I would never wish for UNC to win a title for any reason.

Amen. 'Nuf said.

-EarlJam

[hc5duke]

Amen. 'Nuf said.

-EarlJam

Ditto. Don't really care for JJ's record anyway. Besides, the first poll option is what UNC fans would pick.

[Lord Ash]

How about option 3: No title, and Hans stays and gets hit by an errant handglider and so misses 15 games?

[hc5duke]

How about option 3: No title, and Hans stays and gets hit by an errant handglider and so misses 15 games?

are you volunteering?

[jimbonelson]

i do not see hans leaving early

[pamtar]

I posted a thread like this a few months back. The general consensus was that Hans wont leave cause he knows he'll be garbage in the pros. Therefor, lets hope they don't win because chances are he'll be back next year too.

With that said, I'm much prouder of the way JJ set his record than how Hans might break it. I would much rather JJ loose the record and we win a NC than the holes win one.

We barely brag about JJ anymore. You think the holes could say anything if we're National Champs?

[Orange&BlackSheep]

i do not see hans leaving early

What else does he have to prove at this point. His draft stock will not go up with one more year so he might as well get in the league. If he went to Duke, I would think he would do the same thing (unless he truly loves going to school).

Orange&BlackSheep

[SilkyJ]

Stop asking these stupid questions.

What's your problem? I don't think its stupid at all. Its a question several people have asked me, and one that I struggled with.

We're all on the same team so be nice.

[SilkyJ]

I posted a thread like this a few months back. The general consensus was that Hans wont leave cause he knows he'll be garbage in the pros. Therefor, lets hope they don't win because chances are he'll be back next year too.

With that said, I'm much prouder of the way JJ set his record than how Hans might break it. I would much rather JJ loose the record and we win a NC than the holes win one.

We barely brag about JJ anymore. You think the holes could say anything if we're National Champs?

First, I think that he will be a decent pro player, but not great.

Second, the poll said nothing about us winning a NC. Of course I would rather win a NC then all of the above. That wasn't the question.

[jimbonelson]

i think he has the opportunity to become one of the best players ever for unc,whether he is a good pro or not is yet to be seen but it appears that he loves college ball and i just dont See him leaving although i wish he would
What else does he have to prove at this point. His draft stock will not go up with one more year so he might as well get in the league. If he went to Duke, I would think he would do the same thing (unless he truly loves going to school).

Orange&BlackSheep

[hc5duke]

First, I think that he will be a decent pro player, but not great.

I'd guess somewhere between Songaila and Brendan "Todd" Haywood. Not sure if that qualifies as "decent"

[SilkyJ]

How about option 3: No title, and Hans stays and gets hit by an errant handglider and so misses 15 games?

I'll add that asap ;)


What else does he have to prove at this point. His draft stock will not go up with one more year so he might as well get in the league. If he went to Duke, I would think he would do the same thing (unless he truly loves going to school).

Orange&BlackSheep

I think there is one thing he can do to raise his draft stock, which is work on/showcase his jumper more. He is doing a little this year, and would probably do even more next year in terms of showcasing, and presumably by next year it would be even better (given an off season of work).

[Indoor66]

I think there is one thing he can do to raise his draft stock, which is work on/showcase his jumper more. He is doing a little this year, and would probably do even more next year in terms of showcasing, and presumably by next year it would be even better (given an off season of work).

Next year he will be 24 years old!

[mapei]

Sooner or later, UNC is going to win another championship. Given those two bad choices, I'd rather get it over with and let JJ's record stand for a long time.

[uncwdevil]

He can have the record given those choices.

I think he'll return either way though. He's the man in college and I don't think his NBA stock is going to go down.

[superdave]

First off, records were meant to be broken and hopefully JJ's record gets broken by Singler in 3 years. So let's agree to never wish UNC would win anything resembling a national championship.

Second, http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/tylerhansbrough.asp

Hansborough would be 23 at the beginning of the next NBA season and 24 at the beginning of the one after that were he to stay 4 years.

So...why would he stay in college? He's just reducing his # of years in the NBA and his earning potential.

I think he's gone.

[SilkyJ]

Sooner or later, UNC is going to win another championship. Given those two bad choices, I'd rather get it over with and let JJ's record stand for a long time.

I guess that's kinda my reasoning...I really wouldn't like for them to win twice in 3-4 year tho...especially without us getting one in that time frame.



Hansborough would be 23 at the beginning of the next NBA season and 24 at the beginning of the one after that were he to stay 4 years.

So...why would he stay in college? He's just reducing his # of years in the NBA and his earning potential.

I think he's gone.

now that's actually an argument I hadn't heard before. very interesting and certainly a good point. I wonder how much he cares about that stuff tho. I think he knows he'll make enough to provide for himself and his loved ones several times over, and he seems to really care about the game and I bet winning a college NC is high on his list of life goals. point being if he doesn't get it this year, I think his emotion and competitiveness will win out and he will stay...

[Clipsfan]

I think his best chance to really leave a mark is in college basketball, and with that understanding he will probably stay. He likes being at UNC, and with that extra year he'll have the chance to set records such as the scoring one (and have his jersey "honored"). He'll make enough money in the pros that it is probably worth it to stick around.

[hc5duke]

First off, records were meant to be broken and hopefully JJ's record gets broken by Singler in 3 years. So let's agree to never wish UNC would win anything resembling a national championship.

Second, http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/tylerhansbrough.asp

Hansborough would be 23 at the beginning of the next NBA season and 24 at the beginning of the one after that were he to stay 4 years.

So...why would he stay in college? He's just reducing his # of years in the NBA and his earning potential.

I think he's gone.

That's assuming he will have a contract in his early-to-mid-30s when he's thinking about retiring, which I don't think would be the case.

[DukePA]

Both would suck although I suppose them winning another national title would be completely intolerable. Wonder what would JJ choose?

[DukeDevilDeb]

How about option 3: No title, and Hans stays and gets hit by an errant handglider and so misses 15 games?

I'll vote for this one all day long!!!:p :p :p :p

[hc5duke]

Both would suck although I suppose them winning another national title would be completely intolerable. Wonder what would JJ choose?

WWJJD?

[Cameron]

Don't really care for JJ's record anyway.

Well, I would bet that makes for a handful on this entire board.

Chris Duhon will always be my all-time guy, but JJ was right there behind him. JJ was special, special, special. He gave us four years of greatness, and two of Heaven. When JJ took the court it was an event. I can honestly say the game that was being played on those nights took a back seat. Redick was The Show. Period.

When JJ knocked down that free-throw to become the all-time leading scorer in the history of the greatest conference in college basketball, the historic Atlantic Coast Conference, I felt a rush of pride that I will never forget, and it still lives with me today. JJ personified excellence at the highest of levels, levels that no other player in our conference's wonderful past has ever approached, and we were apart of that. We were lucky enough to live through it firsthand.

JJ scored more points than Thompson, Ford, Scott, Sampson, Duncan, Worthy, Jordan, Price, Anderson, Hemric, Carter, Jamison, Childress, Cunningham, Rosenbluth, Miller, Perkins, Bias, Chappell, Davis, Dixon, Grant, King, McMillan, Smith, Rollins, Monroe, Laettner, Dawkins, Ferry, Hill, Battier, Williams, and on and on and on. Seriously, just think about that for a moment.

I love the record like it's my own and I don't want to see it go anywhere anytime soon. I want to keep my record. I want JJ to be the best there ever was. Forever.

Like SilkyJ, I find this to be a very perplexing question. What to do? If this was the only situation possible, however, I'd pick to preserve JJs record. We have enough talent to win national titles the following two seasons and more beyond (so Carolina having five to our three wouldn't bother me in the long run), but JJs monument frozen in time is something that can never be duplicated. I want it frozen forever.

With all this said, I'm pulling for the handglider.

[wisteria]

Record is set to be broken.

I'll NEVER want UNC to win the title.
Hansbrough can have whatever record he likes to have.

[hc5duke]

Record is set to be broken.

I'll NEVER want UNC to win the title.
Hansbrough can have whatever record he likes to have.

Seriously. Hell, Hansbrough can double JJ's scoring record for all I care, break the rebounding record, win all the POY awards, and I'll even throw in multiple COY awards for Roy, if will somehow guarantee Carolina won't win this year and keep choking year in and year out.

[snowdenscold]

Seriously, how is this even a question. There was no debate for me. Scoring records will eventually be broken. I can live with that. More titles for UNC I cannot.

So what if Tyler passes JJ? It's not like Wake Forest fans have been giving us a hard time for decades over Hemric's accomplishment. Why? Because after a couple of years those things fade out and no one really pays that much attention. But title comparison always remains fresh and relevant.

[mgtr]

Tyler is now truly a BMOC, not just at UNC but in college basketball generally. He will never again be this relatively important -- unless he stays to play in college next year. No matter his experience in the pros, which is not likely to be great, IMHO, he will still be a commodity, liable to be traded at the whim of a GM. I don't think he will be a LeBron or Kobe.
I would love to see him go to the NBA, since I don't watch the NBA, but I doubt that it will happen this year, for the reason stated above (ego).

[wilko]

How about a 3rd choice..

UNC loses in the most emabrrassing, humilating way possible and then they all leave for fear of ridicule and harm from their fellow students.


Thats one I can live with.

There is NO reason whatsoever to be nice to UNC.
Its not even a consideraton until Duke OWNS the all time win mark vs them.

I doubt there was a post like this rooting fo JJ (or any of our players) on any UNC board.

[RelativeWays]

If Hansbeaker is going to leave early, this year is as good as any for him (lets ignore that he's a junior and its his last chance to leave early anyway). I hate to give the guy credit but he's really stepped up his play while Lawson has been hurt, scoring in the upper 20s in several games and willing the Tarholes to win while his teammates seemed unsure at times. His stock isn't going to go any higher.
However, like Matt Leinart with USC, Hans may love playing at UNC and the college game. Barring catastrophic injury, he's going to be a late first round pick either this year or next, he doesn't need money and next year is his last year to have that experience. The Duke fan in me would loathe for him to stay, there is a part...a small part, of the college basketball fan in me that would at least appreciate him staying when so many players leave as soon as they smell the money. I think its hard to argue that early entry has crippled the college game severely.
Also, no UNC national championship ever...or at least a decade or more.

[Channing]

If Mark Madsen can carve out a niche in the pros so can TH. Look at some of the guys roughly his size that are contributing in the NBA (and this is just off the top of my head):

Udonis Haslem
Paul Milsap
Jason Maxiel

IMO TH is just as if not more athletic than these guys, and is certainly a better college player than them. I think a guy willing to get in the trenches, work hard, and fight for garbage points has a place on a lot of teams.

[Salty Breezes]

I don't think there's any question that the pro game needs big guys who are willing to throw their bodies around and play hard every minute. I see Hans as a Brian Cardinal /Troy Murphy type -- every team will want him as a seventh man.

As we watch ESPN count down the top 25 college players of all time, you know Hans would love to be on that list -- and if he stays, he might just do it. Could be National POY twice in a row (although Beasley is clearly the better talent, I can't argue with Hans being the better all-around player and teammate). If he adds the ACC scoring record, all that's missing from his resume is a NC.

He'll stay. He understands what it means to be considered one of the best of all time; one year of late first-round cash doesn't come close to comparing. The real question is whether Lawson and Eliington will stay with him; both are better pro prospects right now.

As for the basic question, no contest; every year that UNC doesn't win a NC is a good year. JJ will always be JJ, record or no.

[Carlos]

I think that Hansbrough will be a fine pro in the Kurt Rambis/Marc Ivaroni sense of the word. However, there's no freakin' way that he's similar to either Maxiell or Millsap other than being undersized for the power positions in the NBA.

Both Maxiell and Millsap are much better leapers and both have exceptional reach, allowing them to make up for their lack of size. Both guys averaged more than 2 blocks a game in their last year in college. Hansbrough averages 2 blocks a season.

[dukegirlinsc]

For the record, I struggled but picked Hans leaving early. JJ is my boy and I want to see him hold that record for a long, long time.

I agree. :p

[Uncle Drew]

Singular records are all freakin' smurfy, but don't really mean squat. JJ was a great ACC player. But did getting the record put him in anyones top 10 greatest ACC players list? (For that matter was D. Hemrick in anyones top 10 before JJ took his record?) Did it elevate his draft status? Has it done him one bit of good in his 2 NBA years? Tyler can have the record, because frankly it's just a stat. Even if he breaks the record IMO I'll bet he is more remembered in 20 years for getting his nose broken in last years game in the Duke vs. UNC saga.

For the record I would rather be arrested and sentenced for a crime I did not commit for the next 10-15 years than UNC win another title.

[Karl Beem]

Clever Hans stays and destroys JJ's record. In his game vs #16 seed Lamar, he ruptures a disk in his back flopping at 19:12 of the 1st half and does not return. The Tools lose.

[JasonEvans]

With all this said, I'm pulling for the handglider.

What is a handlgider? You mean a hang glider, right?

Am I missing something? Is there a "Gerald Henderson blocked your nose" joke here that I am not getting?

--Jason "I am rooting for Carolina to get upset early in the ACC and NCAA tourneys, denying Hasbro the extra games he needs to break JJ's record" Evans

[dukegirlinsc]

What is a handlgider? You mean a hang glider, right?

Am I missing something? Is there a "Gerald Henderson blocked your nose" joke here that I am not getting?

--Jason "I am rooting for Carolina to get upset early in the ACC and NCAA tourneys, denying Hasbro the extra games he needs to break JJ's record" Evans

hahaha, this entire reply made me laugh.
especially the end.
WOOO HOO. GTHC!

[dukegirlinsc]

In a perfect world (which I live in...lol) UNC will lose in the first (2nd will also be acceptable) of both tourneys, and Hansbrokenface will leave after this year.

I can dream & hope. :rolleyes:

[SilkyJ]

W
Like SilkyJ, I find this to be a very perplexing question. What to do? If this was the only situation possible, however, I'd pick to preserve JJs record. We have enough talent to win national titles the following two seasons and more beyond (so Carolina having five to our three wouldn't bother me in the long run), but JJs monument frozen in time is something that can never be duplicated. I want it frozen forever.

With all this said, I'm pulling for the handglider.

Word and word. Someone had a good point that the NC count comparison is relevant year in and year out, but I guess thats true, but year in and year out being able to point and say "yea, but we had JJ, and he owns all the players you had" would be pretty satisfying.

Some say its inevitable that JJ's record will be broken. Well yea, probably. But do you want it broken tomorrow or 50 years from now??



I doubt there was a post like this rooting fo JJ (or any of our players) on any UNC board.

No comparisons to UNC boards please. We are supposed to be a cut above (thank you, Bob ;) )


What is a handlgider? You mean a hang glider, right?

Am I missing something? Is there a "Gerald Henderson blocked your nose" joke here that I am not getting?

--Jason "I am rooting for Carolina to get upset early in the ACC and NCAA tourneys, denying Hasbro the extra games he needs to break JJ's record" Evans

Haha. No, I think it was a typo, though the fact that you interpreted another layer humor out of that is funny.


In a perfect world (which I live in...lol) UNC will lose in the first (2nd will also be acceptable) of both tourneys, and Hansbrokenface will leave after this year.

I can dream & hope. :rolleyes:

I know we're not supposed to be acting so childish anymore, but come on, Hansbrokenface is just funny. I don't care who ya are.

[elvis14]

I couldn't even vote. Can we get this thread moved to Inside Carolina and get SilkyJ suspended for a few weeks for starting it?

9F and screw Hansblahblah!

[77devil]

I couldn't even vote. Can we get this thread moved to Inside Carolina and get SilkyJ suspended for a few weeks for starting it?


If tongue is firmly in cheek, I agee; otherwise, get over it.

[DukeDevil]

Can I vote option 3? The earth opens up and swallows Chapel Hill whole. Once in Hell, Hansblahblah is sent to the lesser known 10th circle of Hell, where refs continue to call him for travelling.

[The Gordog]

Can I vote option 3? The earth opens up and swallows Chapel Hill whole. Once in Hell, Hansblahblah is sent to the lesser known 10th circle of Hell, where refs continue to call him for travelling.
I have to say I think this a rediculous question. No Duke fan wants either of those to happen and there is no reason that one or the other has to happen.

[elvis14]

If tongue is firmly in cheek, I agee; otherwise, get over it.

Yes, smilies implied, tongue in cheek, etc. I wouldn't post something like that publicly otherwise.

Well except for the part where I couldn't vote because both choices suck :D

[MarineTwinsDad]

The truth is that Hansbrough will not make it in the NBA, and if they did win a national championship, he still will return next year because he knows that. So the vote has to be something different. In watching the game between Memphis and Tennessee, the refs REALLY let them play. I can't imagine what Hansbrough would do if the games were called the same as the Memphis - Tenn game (it actually seemed to benefit both teams, since Memphis couldn't hit free throws anyway). I imagine that somewhere there are statistics comparing the number of free throws JJ shot in college that could be compared to the number of points on average that Hansbrough collects through foul shooting. This season his free throws count for 240 of his 654 points. Without all those free throws (296 in 28 games) he's only averaging 15 points a game.

Granted, one could argue that he's so quick and agile that he is just naturally fouled all the time, or simply so overpowering that his defenders have to foul him to stop him. However, that won't happen in the NBA. He won't get the calls, and he won't be overpowering anyone.

[SilkyJ]

I have to say I think this a rediculous question. No Duke fan wants either of those to happen and there is no reason that one or the other has to happen.

Well obviously no one WANTS it to happen, the poll is "would you rather" which is just the like the game you play as an 8 year old where you have to decide whether you would rather eat poop or shave your teacher's legs. Both options suck. That's the point.

There is no reason that one or the other HAS to happen, but as has been discussed, if Tyler stays and does not get injured it is not only conceivable, but probably LIKELY that he will break the record.

If you think its ridiculous then just don't post in this thread and go find some better way to use your time instead of wasting mine/ours.


I couldn't even vote. Can we get this thread moved to Inside Carolina and get SilkyJ suspended for a few weeks for starting it?

9F and screw Hansblahblah!

Thats MISTER silkyj to you, bub ;)

[jipops]

Heels win it all, Hans will bolt. If not, he'll be back in the Dean Dome averaging fewer fouls per game than any walk-on.

I think Tyler will be a much better pro than many are willing to admit. I fail to see the lack of athleticism that others harp on. Must have something to do with the color of his skin. The only issue I see is his lack of defense in the paint. His greatest defensive asset in the college game is getting everyone in foul trouble thereby putting them on the bench.

[wilson]

I choose option #3: "Stab rusty nails into both of my eyes."

[superdave]

Twist a great Fletch quote and you've got Hansborough's problem, he's not that tall.

Does anyone actually think he can get that shot off against any of the 4's in the league? He tosses it up over his shoulder. He does not sky hook it, he does not take a hard dribble and step back for his shot. He creates contact then flips it up. That gets blocked every time by taller players who can jump.

Without the refs protecting him, where does that leave his career? A Kurt Rambiss/Mark Madsen energy guy. He could be the 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench and be the dirty work/garbae buckets players. But he's not going to knock anyone's socks off.

And please, again, dont ever wish unc wins anything under any circumstances. You have to question your entire existence if that's how you think....please...for the children....

[SilkyJ]

I fail to see the lack of athleticism that others harp on. Must have something to do with the color of his skin.

you know, I was thinking that recently as well. don't know what it has to do with (could be skin color I suppose) but from what I've seen he's got good hops, quickness and strength.

I know a lot of people judge athleticism by dunks and jumping but I feel like I've seen hansbrough throw down some serious dunks so I really don't know where people are coming from with this...



And please, again, dont ever wish unc wins anything under any circumstances. You have to question your entire existence if that's how you think....please...for the children....

sigh...why do people insist on saying i wish for this. i dont want either one! i am making up a scenario and asking which would you prefer...see below from my original post. we're pretending those are the only two options.



(of course its not a lock that hans & co will stay/go no matter what happens...but lets pretend)