Dukie Decision: GM shoots a 325 pound airball

[jzp5079]

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280224021

I know the title is a little edgy - but thats what the real headlines will be looking like if this happens again.

The Suns just beat the Celtics (who are playing poorly as of late, but were the best team in the NBA before the all-star break).

They lost to the Lakers (all though close - the Lakers were in control for most of the game) when the Lakers were missing their muscle (Andrew Bynum) before that (Shaq's first game).

They just got completely destroyed by the Pistons. However, note last year Detroit beat them handidly as well - but Marion had one of his worst games of the season then. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270316021

Marion played a little better in another game they played last year and Pheniox won http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=261231008

Actually - Detroit has won 4 of the last 5 against the Suns - fairly impressive.

It has only been 3 games since Shaq got traded - but is there evidence building already that this trade was off?

Nash has only averaged 6.3 assists since losing Marion - and has gone all 3 games without reaching double digits in assists - his first such stretch of the season. Marion took a lot of pressure off of Nash on the peremiter - it is clear from watching 2 of the last 3 games that teams are applying a whole lot more pressure on Nash. His assist to turnover ratio is down a whole assist per turnover.

In reality the only thing that will bring judgement to this trade is the Suns playoff performance. Mr. Kerr better hope things turn around - there is no doubt if this trade turns out to be a huge flop - his job will be in jeopardy.

Watching the Suns these last few games - it looks like they are missing an engine. Hopefully they can work it out.

[Jumbo]

Huh? What does any of this have to do with Duke?

[DevilWolf]

Unless by "Mr. Kerr", we're talking soccer.

[BD80]

Huh? What does any of this have to do with Duke?

Kerr played against Duke in college. Duh :rolleyes:

No, wait. Grant Hill has replaced Marion in the Suns starting lineup and was shut out by the Pistons for the 27 minutes he played.

Hold on, what I am thinking? It is proof that Duke cannot play Zoubek, as a big man destroys Dantoni's system, which Coach K now uses.

Maybe it is an interesting comment regarding a trade that Duhon was not involved in.

Wait, was that a rhetorical question?

[rthomas]

Kerr played against Duke in college. Duh :rolleyes:

No, wait. Grant Hill has replaced Marion in the Suns starting lineup and was shut out by the Pistons for the 27 minutes he played.

Hold on, what I am thinking? It is proof that Duke cannot play Zoubek, as a big man destroys Dantoni's system, which Coach K now uses.

Maybe it is an interesting comment regarding a trade that Duhon was not involved in.

Wait, was that a rhetorical question?

I remember Laettner kicking Shaq's butt once upon a time. Now everyone is kicking it.

[cspan37421]

I remember Laettner kicking Shaq's butt once upon a time. Now everyone is kicking it.

Let's not get silly here. He had a lot of help - double teams at a minimum.

[wisteria]

I thought Ferry was with the Cavs and Kerr went to Arizona or something.

[Jumbo]

I thought Ferry was with the Cavs and Kerr went to Arizona or something.

That's one of the many reasons why we're all confused. Yes, Kerr went to Arizona.

[shadowfax336]

I think Marty Pocius would solve all of the Suns' problems

[RelativeWays]

I think Marty Pocius would solve all of the Suns' problems
Marty would solve everyone's problems. Thats why he's been injured most of his career. The basketball gods tremble at the prospect of a mere mortal with basketball skills that create new paradigms and defy laws of physics. Pocius tears your world asunder! He's been injured for the good of the universe. There is such a thing as being too awesome.

[Cameron]

jzp:

What are you on?

As for Phoenix, however, there is definitely a BIG difference in their offensive flow now that the Big Aristotle is "commanding" the Sun interior. I've watched two of the three games Shaq as played in so far for the "Greatest Show on Court" and I'm not so sure this change is for the better. It just looks like Nash is wearing some "creative restraint" chains or something. Nash's usual penetrate, zig-zag, and kick to the perimeter/throw reverse behind the head ally-oop routine is currently on hold. The critics who said Shaq would create problems for Nash's slashing game seem to have been right.

Now watch the Suns go win the NBA Finals:)

[mgtr]

Color me totally lost on this thread. But perhaps that is the point about the Suns. Or not.

[Channing]

I think the Suns made this move as a panic response to the Lakers getting Pau. I think Memphis would have much rather traded Pau for Marion.

[sagegrouse]

Let's not get silly here. He had a lot of help - double teams at a minimum.

Shaq was no match for Christian in college, and got so frustrated that Dale Brown had to sit him down.

And all the Internet woofing that Shaq rather than Christian deserved to be on the Dream Team is just so much garbage and not matched by their performance that year, their teams' results, the head-to-head matchup and the NPOY honor.

sagegrouse

[ArkieDukie]

Marty would solve everyone's problems. Thats why he's been injured most of his career. The basketball gods tremble at the prospect of a mere mortal with basketball skills that create new paradigms and defy laws of physics. Pocius tears your world asunder! He's been injured for the good of the universe. There is such a thing as being too awesome.

Speaking of tearing worlds asunder, imagine a team with both Patrick Davidson and Marty Pocius. Kobe would immediately retire if any team in the West had this combo.

[Cameron]

Speaking of tearing worlds asunder, imagine a team with both Patrick Davidson and Marty Pocius. Kobe would immediately retire if any team in the West had this combo.


Throw Horvath in the mix, silently stalking the perimeter, hunting three-point missles, and the NBA realeases an affidavit retracting all six Chicago Bulls Finals trophies.

[Carlos]

I've got my lineup -

Jordan Davidson
Patrick Davidson
Marty Pocius
Nick Horvath
Matt Christensen

I'll go to war with that group.

[MChambers]

I've got my lineup -

Jordan Davidson
Patrick Davidson
Marty Pocius
Nick Horvath
Matt Christensen

I'll go to war with that group.

Maybe have Andre Buckner coming off the bench?

[rthomas]

Shaq was no match for Christian in college, and got so frustrated that Dale Brown had to sit him down.

And all the Internet woofing that Shaq rather than Christian deserved to be on the Dream Team is just so much garbage and not matched by their performance that year, their teams' results, the head-to-head matchup and the NPOY honor.

sagegrouse


You are both correct. We did double, sometimes triple, on Shaq when he had the ball. Shaq could do nothing when Laettner had the ball.

[DukeDevilDeb]

I remember Laettner kicking Shaq's butt once upon a time. Now everyone is kicking it.

We played LSU twice during Christian's tenure here. He whopped Shaq both times... at Cameron and in Baton Rouge... yes, he had help, but Shaq had four other players on his team too!

[johnb]

I wish Steve Kerr had played at Duke. His outside shooting could very well have been the oomph that we needed to win it all in '86.

[Chard]

We played LSU twice during Christian's tenure here. He whopped Shaq both times... at Cameron and in Baton Rouge... yes, he had help, but Shaq had four other players on his team too!

Hail, Ceasar!

[Tom B.]

We played LSU twice during Christian's tenure here. He whopped Shaq both times... at Cameron and in Baton Rouge... yes, he had help, but Shaq had four other players on his team too!

Well, let's not get too carried away. Yes, Laettner and Duke owned Shaq the first time around, in Cameron in 1991. I can't find a box score, but I think Shaq only scored 15 points and, if I recall correctly, he was still in single digits well into the second half -- he only got to 15 because he scored six or seven points in garbage time against Duke's bench players. Laettner, on the other hand, went for 20-plus, I'm pretty sure.

Shaq actually had a very good game in 1992 -- he had 25 points and 12 rebounds (actually better than Laettner's 22 and 10). Shaq also had seven blocks, while Laettner had none. Laettner had a better supporting cast, though, which is why Duke won.

This was the first of five games that Duke played without Bobby Hurley, who had broken is foot against UNC. Grant Hill took over at the point and had a fine all-around game, with 16 points, nine rebounds and six assists. Thomas Hill added 15 points, five boards and four assists, and Tony Lang (starting in place of the injured Hurley) had a nice game, with 12 points, five boards and three assists.

The game was actually pretty competitive the whole way. Duke held a small lead for much of the game, but never really pulled away until the end when LSU had to start fouling, and Duke ended up winning by 10.

[CMS2478]

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280224021

I know the title is a little edgy - but thats what the real headlines will be looking like if this happens again.

The Suns just beat the Celtics (who are playing poorly as of late, but were the best team in the NBA before the all-star break).

They lost to the Lakers (all though close - the Lakers were in control for most of the game) when the Lakers were missing their muscle (Andrew Bynum) before that (Shaq's first game).

They just got completely destroyed by the Pistons. However, note last year Detroit beat them handidly as well - but Marion had one of his worst games of the season then. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270316021

Marion played a little better in another game they played last year and Pheniox won http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=261231008

Actually - Detroit has won 4 of the last 5 against the Suns - fairly impressive.

It has only been 3 games since Shaq got traded - but is there evidence building already that this trade was off?

Nash has only averaged 6.3 assists since losing Marion - and has gone all 3 games without reaching double digits in assists - his first such stretch of the season. Marion took a lot of pressure off of Nash on the peremiter - it is clear from watching 2 of the last 3 games that teams are applying a whole lot more pressure on Nash. His assist to turnover ratio is down a whole assist per turnover.

In reality the only thing that will bring judgement to this trade is the Suns playoff performance. Mr. Kerr better hope things turn around - there is no doubt if this trade turns out to be a huge flop - his job will be in jeopardy.

Watching the Suns these last few games - it looks like they are missing an engine. Hopefully they can work it out.

heck, I don't know what he was trying to say. :confused:

[Indoor66]

Well, let's not get too carried away. Yes, Laettner and Duke owned Shaq the first time around, in Cameron in 1991. I can't find a box score, but I think Shaq only scored 15 points and, if I recall correctly, he was still in single digits well into the second half -- he only got to 15 because he scored six or seven points in garbage time against Duke's bench players. Laettner, on the other hand, went for 20-plus, I'm pretty sure.

Shaq actually had a very good game in 1992 -- he had 25 points and 12 rebounds (actually better than Laettner's 22 and 10). Shaq also had seven blocks, while Laettner had none. Laettner had a better supporting cast, though, which is why Duke won.

This was the first of five games that Duke played without Bobby Hurley, who had broken is foot against UNC. Grant Hill took over at the point and had a fine all-around game, with 16 points, nine rebounds and six assists. Thomas Hill added 15 points, five boards and four assists, and Tony Lang (starting in place of the injured Hurley) had a nice game, with 12 points, five boards and three assists.

The game was actually pretty competitive the whole way. Duke held a small lead for much of the game, but never really pulled away until the end when LSU had to start fouling, and Duke ended up winning by 10.

1991 game Box: http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19910210

1992 game Box: http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19920208

[NovaScotian]

I've got my lineup -

Jordan Davidson
Patrick Davidson
Marty Pocius
Nick Horvath
Matt Christensen

I'll go to war with that group.

dont forget MY BOY tommy novick

[Cameron]

Remember when Marty went four days without missing a three-pointer in practice? Like 30 of 30 from beyond the arc and 900 straight FT makes?

Those practice updates were of legendary proportions, almost SLAM worthy. Perhaps someone should have given Scoop Jackson a ring...