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View Full Version : Do you think Kentucky was crazy.....



dynastydefender
02-10-2008, 04:17 PM
For Getting Rid of Tubby Smith? My opinion is that the best thing Tubby Did was not call any timeouts during the last three minutes of the 1998 UK/Duke Game,

Definitely Interested in hearing the Duke/ACC Perspective.

Oh for your entertainment!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTQbxPZcqiA


You guys are turning me into a closet Duke Fan!!!!

mus074
02-10-2008, 04:23 PM
For Getting Rid of Tubby Smith? My opinion is that the best thing Tubby Did was not call any timeouts during the last three minutes of the 1998 UK/Duke Game,

Definitely Interested in hearing the Duke/ACC Perspective.

Oh for your entertainment!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTQbxPZcqiA


You guys are turning me into a closet Duke Fan!!!!

Smith knew good and well that he was leaving a team capable of making a .500 record seem like an accomplishment. Given the handwriting on the wall, he said, "later" at an opportune time.

dynastydefender
02-10-2008, 04:26 PM
Smith knew good and well that he was leaving a team capable of making a .500 record seem like an accomplishment. Given the handwriting on the wall, he said, "later" at an opportune time.
You are right AGAIN.....I put a misnomer on this AGAIN!!

Oh and Tubby did call one timeout during the 1998 game with like 4.5 seconds left.

He did leave on his own HOWEVER....The UK FANatics got rid of him a long time ago.

RWD
02-10-2008, 04:36 PM
In a word, yes.

Also, unless I'm wrong, whoever put together that video might want to do some fact checking. If I remember correctly, Duke-Kentucky 1992 went to one, not two, overtimes.

RWD

dynastydefender
02-10-2008, 04:39 PM
I tell you..fellow UK fanatics aren't helping me at all here!

CDu
02-10-2008, 05:15 PM
I don't think they were crazy to encourage Smith to go, but I don't know that they weren't crazy to bring in the guy they brought in.

Smith took a juggernaut built by Pitino and turned it into an also-ran. He was headed in the wrong direction, and there was no sign of righting the ship. In that regard, parting ways with Smith (or making it clear that he was persona non grata) makes sense.

However, I think they gambled on Gillespie. He lacks experience and a proven track record at the elite level. When you have the pedigree of Kentucky, you can't gamble and miss. And they had the means to pursue a more proven coach. It could be that Gillespie scored with one great recruit (Law III), and that he's not ready to be the coach of a big-time program. If it turns out that Gillespie is the real deal, no one will be questioning the move.

NYC Duke Fan
02-10-2008, 05:35 PM
I don't think they were crazy to encourage Smith to go, but I don't know that they weren't crazy to bring in the guy they brought in.

Smith took a juggernaut built by Pitino and turned it into an also-ran. He was headed in the wrong direction, and there was no sign of righting the ship. In that regard, parting ways with Smith (or making it clear that he was persona non grata) makes sense.

However, I think they gambled on Gillespie. He lacks experience and a proven track record at the elite level. When you have the pedigree of Kentucky, you can't gamble and miss. And they had the means to pursue a more proven coach. It could be that Gillespie scored with one great recruit (Law III), and that he's not ready to be the coach of a big-time program. If it turns out that Gillespie is the real deal, no one will be questioning the move.

Didn't Duke gamble on a West Point Point coach. with no recruiting experience ..I'd say it turned out pretty well !!!!.

yancem
02-10-2008, 05:41 PM
For Getting Rid of Tubby Smith? My opinion is that the best thing Tubby Did was not call any timeouts during the last three minutes of the 1998 UK/Duke Game,

Definitely Interested in hearing the Duke/ACC Perspective.

Oh for your entertainment!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTQbxPZcqiA


You guys are turning me into a closet Duke Fan!!!!

I think that Tubby is a solid coach. He led the Wildcats to the NC in 98 which means he can coach. Yes, KY was very good that year but there are a lot of very good teams that don't get to the final four or win the championship (see Kansas, UCLA and Arizona most years). I think that this shows that he can coach.

The problem with Tubby is that either isn't a very good recruiter/talent evaluator or doesn't like to recruit/evaluate talent. KY should basically recruit itself but when you look at the recruiting classes that Tubby brought in, they were rarely stacked with McD AA's. It is very hard to compete at a high level year in and year out if you aren't bringing in big time studs every year. Just look at MD as an example. They found some diamonds in the rough and for a 2-3 year period competed at the highest level but Gary hasn't been able to consistently bring in AA's so the program has been up and down.

I think that Tubby saw where things were heading and jumped ship before it sank. I think that KY problem is that they didn't have a replacement ready before they shoved him out the door. Gillespie may turn out to be a great coach and therefore everything may work out for the best but right now its still a gamble. Ask the question again in a few years, then we'll have a more accurate answer.

Olympic Fan
02-10-2008, 06:36 PM
Interesting that Tubby couldn't return to the Final Four after winning the 1998 title with Pitino's players. At a school like Kentucky (and Duke and UNC), that's the measure by which coaches are judged.

But from 1998-2007, Kentucky was the ONLY NCAA team to win at least one NCAA Tournament game every year.

Personally, I always thought Tubby was a superb game coach and an excellent teacher, but I couldn't understand why the coach at Kentucky couldn't recruit more five-star prospects. Don't get me wrong, he got some -- but Kentucky should be up there with UNC and Duke in terms of signing the best prospects. For some reason, they were justa cut below that level.

JBDuke
02-10-2008, 06:53 PM
For Getting Rid of Tubby Smith? My opinion is that the best thing Tubby Did was not call any timeouts during the last three minutes of the 1998 UK/Duke Game,

Definitely Interested in hearing the Duke/ACC Perspective.

Oh for your entertainment!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTQbxPZcqiA


You guys are turning me into a closet Duke Fan!!!!

Crazy? Not really.

As others have stated, I think highly of Tubby as a coach. I think he prepares his team well and manages a game well. He's a man of integrity. When he's your coach, you're gonna have a clean program that's will be competitive in just about any conference in the nation. But I think Tubby struggles in recruiting, and doesn't compete well in that arena with Duke, UNC, UCLA, Kansas, etc.

So, given that we're talking about Kentucky here, he probably wasn't a good fit. My understanding of Kentucky fans is that entirely too much of their self-worth is tied up in the success of their basketball program. They're not going to settle for a coach who will be competitive in the SEC, run a clean program, but be very unlikely to put together a team together that can get to the Final Four.

Is Gillespie the answer? It remains to be seen. I don't think he's a better game day coach than Tubby, and he's not going to get any more out of the guys on the current bench than Tubby would have. But he may be able to pull more talent to Lexington, and may be able to take that talent back to the Final Four. Kentucky fans will need to be patient for a couple of years, not something they are renowned for.

dynastydefender
02-11-2008, 09:32 AM
I don't think they were crazy to encourage Smith to go, but I don't know that they weren't crazy to bring in the guy they brought in.

Smith took a juggernaut built by Pitino and turned it into an also-ran. He was headed in the wrong direction, and there was no sign of righting the ship. In that regard, parting ways with Smith (or making it clear that he was persona non grata) makes sense.

However, I think they gambled on Gillespie. He lacks experience and a proven track record at the elite level. When you have the pedigree of Kentucky, you can't gamble and miss. And they had the means to pursue a more proven coach. It could be that Gillespie scored with one great recruit (Law III), and that he's not ready to be the coach of a big-time program. If it turns out that Gillespie is the real deal, no one will be questioning the move.
I understand completely. Didn't something similar happen to UNC with Brad Daugherty? The Holes thought that he could run the program just as well and well we all know what happened there. Maybe the same will be true with Gillespie. My opinion is that the Kentucky faithful will give him three years to win the SEC if he can't in three years then it's time to go. UK could have pursued an A+ coach. I still don't understand why Billy Donovan turned down the job. Here is something to think about. I was calling into sports shows last year when UK was looking for a coach and I talked about getting the likes of Pat Riley to coach the Cats. Heck at this point I would have givne Travis Ford or Pelphry the opportunity. We all know that they have the passion to make UK a dominant program again.

As far as being patient goes. The more I hear the rest of the UK Fanatics whine the more I am glad that Gardner Webb beat us at home. It's times like this make the times of greatness that much more great.

CDu
02-11-2008, 10:10 AM
Didn't Duke gamble on a West Point Point coach. with no recruiting experience ..I'd say it turned out pretty well !!!!.

Yeah, and I bet it works out that well all of the time, too. (end sarcasm)

You can always find exceptions to the rule. Actually, the Coach K hire was an even BIGGER gamble, because he didn't even have the success Gillespie had. My point is that a program like UK has the cache to pull the likes of Pitino, Williams, etc. The fact that they took Gillespie was a gamble that may not have been necessary. Hence they're subject to criticism (like Duke was when they hired Coach K). If he turns out great, the criticism will go away. If not, they look crazy for hiring him. Hence, it's a gamble.

CDu
02-11-2008, 10:15 AM
I understand completely. Didn't something similar happen to UNC with Brad Daugherty? The Holes thought that he could run the program just as well and well we all know what happened there. Maybe the same will be true with Gillespie. My opinion is that the Kentucky faithful will give him three years to win the SEC if he can't in three years then it's time to go. UK could have pursued an A+ coach. I still don't understand why Billy Donovan turned down the job. Here is something to think about. I was calling into sports shows last year when UK was looking for a coach and I talked about getting the likes of Pat Riley to coach the Cats. Heck at this point I would have givne Travis Ford or Pelphry the opportunity. We all know that they have the passion to make UK a dominant program again.

As far as being patient goes. The more I hear the rest of the UK Fanatics whine the more I am glad that Gardner Webb beat us at home. It's times like this make the times of greatness that much more great.

It was Matt Doherty, not Brad Daugherty. But yes, they took a gamble on a less proven coach, and it failed.

As for UK, they DID technically pursue an A+ coach: Donovan. He turned them down. And I completely understand why he did it. Why would he take the UK job over UF? He's pretty much got the perfect job: good weather, low pressure (UF is still a football school, so he's SLIGHTLY under the radar), and a newly great program. And he's already built his reputation there. He won them two national championships and three final game appearances. He has bought himself years of good will from the fan base, especially by not leaving for the NBA or another program. If he went to UK, the pressure to win would be far greater, and he'd be starting from a position that's no more likely to have success (UF is now the premier program in that conference, not UK). Going to UK made no sense for Donovan.

dynastydefender
02-11-2008, 01:17 PM
Uk needs to turn down the pressure cooker and be patient. If UK can't do that then the slide down into obscurity will continue indefinitely. No sane coach will want the Job and no recruit will want to have a spoiled fan base blaming them when they don't win a championship right away. This doesn't look good I'm afraid.

However it's still fun to wear my UK Dynasty Defender Cap in North Carolina!
:)



It was Matt Doherty, not Brad Daugherty. But yes, they took a gamble on a less proven coach, and it failed.

As for UK, they DID technically pursue an A+ coach: Donovan. He turned them down. And I completely understand why he did it. Why would he take the UK job over UF? He's pretty much got the perfect job: good weather, low pressure (UF is still a football school, so he's SLIGHTLY under the radar), and a newly great program. And he's already built his reputation there. He won them two national championships and three final game appearances. He has bought himself years of good will from the fan base, especially by not leaving for the NBA or another program. If he went to UK, the pressure to win would be far greater, and he'd be starting from a position that's no more likely to have success (UF is now the premier program in that conference, not UK). Going to UK made no sense for Donovan.

loran16
02-11-2008, 01:26 PM
Uk needs to turn down the pressure cooker and be patient. If UK can't do that then the slide down into obscurity will continue indefinitely. No sane coach will want the Job and no recruit will want to have a spoiled fan base blaming them when they don't win a championship right away. This doesn't look good I'm afraid.


For more on this phenomenon, see half of the SEC in football (Alabama, Arkansas, much?). Most schools cant pull off the recruiting to never need to rebuild. And even those that USUALLY can pull it off have years that dont go according to plan, (duke and Uconn last year for example).

The problem is that with certain schools (especially SEC schools) , they have fanbases used to winning, and if they arent winning, the fanbases/boosters raise hell, which makes the program worse than better.

Billy donovan rightfully stayed at florida, where he got good money, proved his worth, and will be able to recruit easily, and moreover will still have football able to distract boosters from ever calling for his head.