Rule Question regarding GH's travel call...

[bjornolf]

I watched this play like four times on my TiVo in slo-mo. I was watching the game, and there was a play where GP threw it behind GH. GH reached back and caught the ball kind of in his elbow. He had one foot down, stepped to the next foot and elevated without putting his first foot back down. They called a travel. My understanding was that by rule, you can lift your pivot foot as long as you don't put it down, so even if the ref considered his first foot his pivot foot, he didn't walk. Is there something I'm not understanding here, or was it a bad call by the ref? I'm not trying to gripe about the call, I'm trying to understand the rule.

Thanks,
Joe

[pfrduke]

I remember that play as well, and share your impression that it was not a travel. I think it was one of those plays where it didn't "look" like anyone should do that without traveling, so the official whistled what he expected to see. Regardless of whether it was a travel or not though, it was a heck of an athletic play by Gerald.

[riverside6]

Completely agree. Even if he had control of it, he only took two steps and no travel should have been called.

Referees all too often go by the logic that if it looks funny, it's a travel.

[ugadevil]

Referees all too often go by the logic that if it looks funny, it's a travel.

As do opposing coaches and fans.

[devilsadvocate85]

Just a note from my father who told me this story from a coaching clinic he attended. A veteran referee spoke to the coaches at the clinic and asked them all for the definition of a travel. After multiple attempts by the coaches in the audience (all futile), he informed that that a travel occurs when the referee blows his whistle and makes the appropriate motion with his arms. :)

[du_bb1]

totally agree-replay was pretty clear--certainly did not appear to be a travel as defined by any BB rules I know--incredibly athletic catch/move and to make the shot !! wowow !!

[Clipsfan]

I said the same thing after looking at it again, but real time it looked very awkward. The official made what he thought was the right call, even though he was wrong. Collison (UCLA) was called for a travel on a very similar awkward-looking 2-step a few games ago, and actually protested a bit more than G did (it seemed he just took the call in stride). Compared to some of the other calls in the game, this one didn't both me all that much.

[SlimSlowSlider]

My Dad and I also replayed the travel call, and came to the same conclusion.

We also replayed the call on Demarcus's fourth foul. Still have not figured that one out.

[wilson]

...Referees all too often go by the logic that if it looks funny, it's a travel.

Except in the NBA.
Agreed on the consensus of this thread, though.

[Carlos]

I watched this play like four times on my TiVo in slo-mo. I was watching the game, and there was a play where GP threw it behind GH. GH reached back and caught the ball kind of in his elbow. He had one foot down, stepped to the next foot and elevated without putting his first foot back down. They called a travel. My understanding was that by rule, you can lift your pivot foot as long as you don't put it down, so even if the ref considered his first foot his pivot foot, he didn't walk. Is there something I'm not understanding here, or was it a bad call by the ref? I'm not trying to gripe about the call, I'm trying to understand the rule.

Thanks,
Joe

Yes, the reason that Henderson was called for traveling was because he was not wearing a white #50 jersey.

[BlueDevilJay]

Completely agree. Even if he had control of it, he only took two steps and no travel should have been called.

Referees all too often go by the logic that if it looks funny, it's a travel.

Exactly! That is the discussion we had while watching it, they call it walking if it appears like it. He took only 2 steps, hence why the shot he took looked so awkward, as he was avoiding putting down the 3rd step. Plain and simple it wasn't a travel.

[pfrduke]

We also replayed the call on Demarcus's fourth foul. Still have not figured that one out.

I recall actually seeing this as a foul. It was somewhat confusing, as the guy he pushed (I think Green) wasn't the guy who made the tip-in (Ellington - who was untouched). IIRC, the replay showed Nelson's left arm in the back of Green. It certainly wasn't a lot of contact, and there's some chance that Nelson got pushed into Green by Scheyer.

[Channing]

i think it was called traveling because the ref was anticipating a travel. it looked like there was no humanly possible way that GH could catch the ball and do something with it before he traveled. Somehow he got the ball up to the rim but the ref had made his mind up that it wasnt possible - hence the call.

[_Gary]

I too thought the call was bogus and that the whistle was only blown because it "looked" awkward at first blush. But no way did Gerald actually travel on that play - even by college bb rules.

[Lulu]

ditto for me. nothing new to add but i thought the same thing during the game... and waited for a replay that never came. He just caught it funny where maybe he didn't quite have control initially, but no matter what he didn't take enough steps to travel.

[Johnboy]

I think it was Scheyer, anyway. He poked the ball loose from a Carolina player, then appeared to bounce it, catch it with both hands, turn and then start dribbling again (going in for the dunk, IIRC). I kept waiting for the call that never came. I judged then that the refs determined that he didn't get control until he grabbed the ball with both hands, but it seemed to me an instance in which they could have called a double-dribble if they'd wanted to.

Did anyone else notice this/replay it? I haven't taken a second look, though I think there was a replay of the play at the time.

[BigTedder]

As do opposing coaches and fans.

#50 looks funny.....but they don't call him for it. Wonder why?

[ojaidave]

I think it was Scheyer, anyway. He poked the ball loose from a Carolina player, then appeared to bounce it, catch it with both hands, turn and then start dribbling again (going in for the dunk, IIRC). I kept waiting for the call that never came. I judged then that the refs determined that he didn't get control until he grabbed the ball with both hands, but it seemed to me an instance in which they could have called a double-dribble if they'd wanted to.

Did anyone else notice this/replay it? I haven't taken a second look, though I think there was a replay of the play at the time.

I saw that play on Scheyer too and agree that it was probably a double dribble as he basically dribbled once, made a jump stop, turned, and started dribbling again. They showed that play on Sportcenter a few times the following day without comment from anyone, so maybe we both are seeing something that wasn't there.

Dave

[Johnboy]

I saw that play on Scheyer too and agree that it was probably a double dribble as he basically dribbled once, made a jump stop, turned, and started dribbling again. They showed that play on Sportcenter a few times the following day without comment from anyone, so maybe we both are seeing something that wasn't there.

Dave

Glad it wasn't just me. I just watched it on the "condensed game" ESPN link. It's at about the 6:30 mark of the 1st half, I think. They could have called it.

(The Singler/Hansblah abuse is right after that, so it's a good place to watch).

[yancem]

I think it was Scheyer, anyway. He poked the ball loose from a Carolina player, then appeared to bounce it, catch it with both hands, turn and then start dribbling again (going in for the dunk, IIRC). I kept waiting for the call that never came. I judged then that the refs determined that he didn't get control until he grabbed the ball with both hands, but it seemed to me an instance in which they could have called a double-dribble if they'd wanted to.

Did anyone else notice this/replay it? I haven't taken a second look, though I think there was a replay of the play at the time.

Singler had a similar play as well. He kinda bobbled a pass, batted it down, caught the ball, then dribbled. I think that it was right before the turn around jumper.

[rsvman]

I think it was Scheyer, anyway. He poked the ball loose from a Carolina player, then appeared to bounce it, catch it with both hands, turn and then start dribbling again (going in for the dunk, IIRC). I kept waiting for the call that never came. I judged then that the refs determined that he didn't get control until he grabbed the ball with both hands, but it seemed to me an instance in which they could have called a double-dribble if they'd wanted to.

Did anyone else notice this/replay it? I haven't taken a second look, though I think there was a replay of the play at the time.

I have seen this sort of thing A LOT this year. In pretty much every college basketball game I've watched, at LEAST one double-dribble has occurred; in some, 4 or even 5. Not a single one has been called. It seems that if the player just goes ahead and starts his new dribble without hesitation, the refs won't call it. If the player hesitates, as though he's thinking about whether it's going to be a double-dribble, and then proceeds, he'll get the call.

I even wondered whether there was some kind of rule change, because I've seen this so often this season.

[365Duke]

I have seen this sort of thing A LOT this year. In pretty much every college basketball game I've watched, at LEAST one double-dribble has occurred; in some, 4 or even 5. Not a single one has been called. It seems that if the player just goes ahead and starts his new dribble without hesitation, the refs won't call it. If the player hesitates, as though he's thinking about whether it's going to be a double-dribble, and then proceeds, he'll get the call.

I even wondered whether there was some kind of rule change, because I've seen this so often this season.

I have seen this a lot. I too cringe when I see it, yet it is never called. I guess the first bounce is counted as a deflection that happens to hit the floor, and then control is gained for the new possession.

[Indoor66]

I have seen this sort of thing A LOT this year. In pretty much every college basketball game I've watched, at LEAST one double-dribble has occurred; in some, 4 or even 5. Not a single one has been called. It seems that if the player just goes ahead and starts his new dribble without hesitation, the refs won't call it. If the player hesitates, as though he's thinking about whether it's going to be a double-dribble, and then proceeds, he'll get the call.

I even wondered whether there was some kind of rule change, because I've seen this so often this season.

It appears to me that it is an issue of controlling the ball. The questionable plays I have seen have each been a situation where the possible double-dribble could be questioned because the offending player did not appear to (or could be seen as not having) control over the ball prior to commencing his dribble. That would be a judgment call and the ref's saw it the dribbler's way. JMO

[fan345678]

Regarding the Henderson travel call, I too was baffled. I haven't replayed it yet, but each of the two other Duke fans I was watching with thought it was a travel on Paulus.

Anybody else catch that?

Beat BC!

[calltheobvious]

It appears to me that it is an issue of controlling the ball. The questionable plays I have seen have each been a situation where the possible double-dribble could be questioned because the offending player did not appear to (or could be seen as not having) control over the ball prior to commencing his dribble. That would be a judgment call and the ref's saw it the dribbler's way. JMO

I think you're getting toward the heart of the matter. Those of you who think a double-dribble should have been called are slicing things far too thinly. Scheyer deflected the pass from QThomas. Scheyer's first touch is not legally a dribble in that situation. The ball hits the floor, then Scheyer clearly pushes the ball toward the ground with control, i.e. he has begun his dribble. Then we see Scheyer catch the ball and begin another drouble. He definitely dribbled two different times, but did he violate?

The problem in calling a double dribble there is that just after the ball is released on Scheyer's first dribble-touch , QThomas, trying to fix his mistake, swipes at the ball. It was impossible for me to tell at normal speed whether Thomas tipped the ball (if he did, it was only slightly), and I'll bet a round of beers that the (non)calling official Les Jones was thinking the same thing. If Thomas didn't touch the ball, then Scheyer's subsequent catch and dribble would constitute a double dribble. But if Thomas did touch the ball, even a little bit, the dd call would be improper, because the initial dribble, by rule, would have been "interrupted," in which case the ball-handler is allowed another dribble. The rule of thumb in that situation is Don't Blow Unless You're Sure. Jones did the right thing to pass in that situation, knowing that if he guessed incorrectly, he would have cost Duke a sure bucket and had K on his a** (and this topic would have its own 60-post thread).