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dukediv2013
02-07-2008, 03:01 PM
Did G hurt his wrist in the first half last night or was he anticipating a monster jam on Green and tape it up for protection?;)


Is it just me or does G get up higher than any Duke player ever?

Indoor66
02-07-2008, 03:03 PM
Did G hurt his wrist in the first half last night or was he anticipating a monster jam on Green and tape it up for protection?;)


Is it just me or does G get up higher than any Duke player ever?

Not sure on that. Gene Banks had some S-E-R-I-O-U-S hops and he was 6'7".

77devil
02-07-2008, 03:06 PM
Is it just me or does G get up higher than any Duke player ever?

It might be you. Try Robert Brickey in his prime.

BlueintheFace
02-07-2008, 03:07 PM
I think it would come down to G and Dahntay Jones (see- Jones jumping over a player for a dunk). Either way, that'd be a great dunk contest.

Stray Gator
02-07-2008, 03:08 PM
Maggette had some serious springs, too.

CDu
02-07-2008, 03:09 PM
Corey Maggette had some ridiculous hops. Duke's had a few guys who could really get off the floor. Henderson's not shabby, but I wouldn't necessarily say he has the best hops.

calltheobvious
02-07-2008, 03:09 PM
With Gerald, I think there's an effect at work that makes him seem like he's jumping even higher than he is. He's so incredibly smoothe that he rarely looks as if he's doing anything particularly fast or quickly, until he decides to jump, then all of a sudden he's three-and-a-half feet off the ground. Maggette was faster and maybe a little quicker, so maybe that's why it doesn't seem to some that he jumped higher than GH, but I think he did(does).

pamtar
02-07-2008, 03:09 PM
Is it just me or does G get up higher than any Duke player ever?

Dahntey?

ugadevil
02-07-2008, 03:09 PM
Can Henderson jump higher than Dahntay Jones?

tux
02-07-2008, 03:15 PM
Can Henderson jump higher than Dahntay Jones?

I think yes. Surely the team measures verticals? (Anyone with a connection...)

greybeard
02-07-2008, 03:24 PM
On TV, it looks as if Henderson's head is an inch or so from the rim on occasion. He's only 6'4". I don't recall any of the other guys mentioned getting up like that.

But, this game, he had some Monster leaps in traffic and at risk on defense, among some real trees. After a while, and I'm not kidding, he seemed even to look taller than usual standing among them. They had to think so.

MulletMan
02-07-2008, 03:27 PM
I think yes. Surely the team measures verticals? (Anyone with a connection...)

G - 50 (Or so I was told @ the last game)
DMark - 44
Tay - ???

Jarhead
02-07-2008, 03:29 PM
I believe David Thompson was 45.

dukerev
02-07-2008, 03:29 PM
That dude Grant Hill could jump as I recall.

ugadevil
02-07-2008, 03:33 PM
G - 50 (Or so I was told @ the last game)
DMark - 44
Tay - ???

Tay - As in Taylor King? I'd guess about 4. :D

BD80
02-07-2008, 03:37 PM
Taymon Domzalski - 0.25"

Lavabe
02-07-2008, 03:41 PM
Vince Taylor -- probably 40

Lavabe
02-07-2008, 03:44 PM
Did G hurt his wrist in the first half last night or was he anticipating a monster jam on Green and tape it up for protection?;)


Is it just me or does G get up higher than any Duke player ever?

Are you thinking with the new ACL, you can challenge? I hope the repair job went well. You okay?

What's rehab look like?

Cheers,
Lavabe

Methodistman
02-07-2008, 03:45 PM
Back to the original question in this thread - does anybody know what was up with the wrist? He definitely had tape on it, and it appeared a few times as if he was rubbing/holding his wrist. Not trying to take too big of a leap (sorry, also trying to follow the other theme), but I figure someone on here knows something.

Johnboy
02-07-2008, 03:51 PM
Tay - As in Taylor King? I'd guess about 4. :D

Naw, man, Taymon Domzalski!

gadzooks
02-07-2008, 03:51 PM
He's so incredibly smoothe that he rarely looks as if he's doing anything particularly fast or quickly, until he decides to jump, then all of a sudden he's three-and-a-half feet off the ground.I often say that he's part cat. He jumps and twists his body in like five different directions in midair. Really amazing.

HaveFunExpectToWin
02-07-2008, 03:54 PM
Carmen Wallace had a 40+ inch vertical if I recall correctly.

juise
02-07-2008, 04:14 PM
I found a couple sources that claim Dahntay jumped 39" at the pre-draft camp and Corey is listed at 40" (not sure when that was measured). The best vertical in the 2003 draft class was 41.5" and 41" was best in the 2007 draft.

FishStick
02-07-2008, 04:28 PM
He also had ice on it after the game - I'm hoping it was more precautionary than a requisite.

OldPhiKap
02-07-2008, 05:36 PM
I seem to recall Dawkins being listed as having a 42" vertical leap. Regardless, he could jackknife in midair and change direction. Still don't know how he did that.

jma4life
02-07-2008, 05:55 PM
Gerald Henderson has been quoted as saying that he and Demarcus have 40 inch verticals but it's not like thats official or anything. Gerald defintely gets some rediculous blocks for a sg though. Some of his blocks kind of remind me of some of the rediculous blocks that Tyrus Thomas had on Duke in terms of the fact that it seemed like there should be no chance that the shot should be able to be blocked.

3rd Dukie
02-07-2008, 05:57 PM
On TV, it looks as if Henderson's head is an inch or so from the rim on occasion. He's only 6'4". I don't recall any of the other guys mentioned getting up like that.

But, this game, he had some Monster leaps in traffic and at risk on defense, among some real trees. After a while, and I'm not kidding, he seemed even to look taller than usual standing among them. They had to think so.

Those are really good points. There are times when I would swear he was about to hit his head on the rim! I just can't quite think of him as 6'4".

yancem
02-07-2008, 06:53 PM
Carmen Wallace had a 40+ inch vertical if I recall correctly.

IIRC Wallace had a 44 inch vertical.

BlueintheFace
02-07-2008, 07:24 PM
Taymon has played pick-up in Wilson gym a couple times over the last two or three years. I have seen him posterize some guys in impressive fashion. Still, he is no Dahntay.. or G

cajundevil74
02-07-2008, 07:29 PM
Vertial leap measurements don't really tell the whole story of who jumps the "best". Maggette was a one foot leaper which is Grant Hill. Dahntay, Carmen Wallace and Gerald are primarily two foot leapers. A two foot leaper appears more explosive when he gets off the ground - remember Dominique Wilkins (two-foot leaper). One-foot leapers appear to glide more, e.g., Jordan.

With that being said, I think Gerald is Duke's best athlete ever.

Jumbo
02-07-2008, 07:37 PM
Patrick Davidson. He didn't jump. He pushed the Earth downward.

Truth
02-07-2008, 08:18 PM
I think it would come down to G and Dahntay Jones (see- Jones jumping over a player for a dunk). Either way, that'd be a great dunk contest.


Challenge! Who did Dahntay jump over?

His most impressive dunk was no doubt the push-up dunk at UVa, but that was much more of a "dunk through" than a "jump over."

Clipsfan
02-07-2008, 08:27 PM
Maggette had one of the most impressive put back dunks I've ever seen, and the most impressive I've seen in person. I forget the game, but right at the end of the first half he went WAY up to get a board (it looked like he grabbed the ball above the square) and threw it down. It was sick.

He was also ridiculously ripped for an 18 y.o. (or anyone for that matter).

Methodistman
02-07-2008, 08:43 PM
Did G hurt his wrist in the first half last night or was he anticipating a monster jam on Green and tape it up for protection?;)


it's driving me crazy how bad this thread has been hijacked . . .

Does anyone have any info on Henderson's wrist?
A couple of people mentioned the ice, we all saw the tape - what gives?

DukeDevilDeb
02-07-2008, 09:02 PM
it's driving me crazy how bad this thread has been hijacked . . .

Does anyone have any info on Henderson's wrist?
A couple of people mentioned the ice, we all saw the tape - what gives?

No definitive word, but he clearly did hurt it in the first half... haven't heard anything else.

devildeac
02-07-2008, 10:14 PM
Challenge! Who did Dahntay jump over?

Nick(?) Vanderstiff(or something like that:D )

gotoguy
02-07-2008, 10:30 PM
Maggette's dunk was against Temple in the 99 NCAA tourney. It was unbelievable

mus074
02-07-2008, 10:32 PM
A previous poster mentioned Brickey. His teammate Fresh Phil Henderson (6'4", like our current Henderson) could also get up and throw down. Who here remembers the dunk on/over/through/all-up-in-his-bidness/posterzing Mourning?

That moment was as sweet as Gerald Henderson's left-handed block of Hanstravel, which Bilas said was, when combined with the huge Singler three at the other end, the deciding moment of the game.

Topdevil
02-07-2008, 10:49 PM
He is an awesome leaper, but so was Gene Banks, Robert Brickey, Grant Hill, Corey Magette and Dahntay Jones. More than leaping, G seems to float, and he does it effortlessly, almost as if gravity didn't apply to him.

I believe K has said that G may be the most athletically gifted player he has ever coached. Here's hoping that he stays all four years!

Dukeford
02-08-2008, 12:51 AM
Actually, Gene Banks couldn't really jump worth a crap.
I'm sure it's easy to just remember how he looked, chiseled and ready to fit into a Superman costume, and assume that he could really jump.

And he was strong, and way ahead of everyone as a high schooler, but his leaping ability was average at best. If he could have played as good as he looked, the '81 team would have been better than 17-15, and he would have had a much more successful pro career.
Don't get me wrong, he was definitely strong and tough, but he wasn't explosive. I doubt he was blocking Gminski's shots during practice.

Acymetric
02-08-2008, 12:59 AM
Maggette had one of the most impressive put back dunks I've ever seen, and the most impressive I've seen in person. I forget the game, but right at the end of the first half he went WAY up to get a board (it looked like he grabbed the ball above the square) and threw it down. It was sick.

He was also ridiculously ripped for an 18 y.o. (or anyone for that matter).

I heard a story at some point that whenever the players would play pick up games shirts/skins, if their girlfriends were there they wouldn't let Maggette play on the skins team...I got a good laugh about that, and I believe it too.

SilkyJ
02-08-2008, 02:12 AM
I think it would come down to G and Dahntay Jones (see- Jones jumping over a player for a dunk). Either way, that'd be a great dunk contest.

G gets higher than dahntay. dahntay was a great leaper, but gerald is out of this world. ive seen them both live several times, G is better.

bluedev_92
02-08-2008, 07:16 AM
It's a close one. This may have been mentioned, but I remember one particular play (I think I still have it on tape) Where Maggette's entire arm was above the basket & I remember Dickie V. screaming something like "he was so high, oh my god he was so high".

Almost opposite of an earlier post - I think Henderson's movements can look muted because he is so smooth. It sometimes doesn't look like he is doing much, but he is. Grant Hill was that way.

pamtar
02-08-2008, 09:21 AM
Anybody remember that kid from Memphis, Michael Wilson?

I think his vert was around 56.

blueprofessor
02-08-2008, 10:04 AM
It's a close one. This may have been mentioned, but I remember one particular play (I think I still have it on tape) Where Maggette's entire arm was above the basket & I remember Dickie V. screaming something like "he was so high, oh my god he was so high".

Maggette was one of the quickest jumpers I have seen.
As far as highest jumpers, I remember a photo of Guy Rodgers and Wilt Chamberlain in 1963 or 1964 with San Francisco which appeared in Sport magazine,IIRC. Wilt was stuffing on a fast break and his arms were wayyyyy above the rim.Wilt was very fast and athletic (at Kansas, he sprinted a 10.9 100, a 4.4 40, put the shot 56 feet,and won the Big 8 high jump championship 3 straight years -over 6 feet 6 inches). Wilt also had a 50 inch vertical!
Best regards.:D

phaedrus
02-08-2008, 10:17 AM
G - 50 (Or so I was told @ the last game)
DMark - 44
Tay - ???

A 50-inch vertical is off the charts. There are dozens of guys with verts in the low 40s, but probably only a handful of people in the world with 50+. That said, Gerald seems about as likely to be one of those people as anyone else (with the exception of Stefan Holm... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZ3ZcorTF0).

Methodistman
02-08-2008, 10:29 AM
Hello? Aren't we forgetting someone still on the team?

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22727&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=669241&Q_SEASON=2007

"high jump of 6-07.5" - oh yeah!

dukerev
02-08-2008, 10:53 AM
The thread has been hijacked. I'm curious, too, about G's wrist.

However, as long as we're talking about jumping...

How many of the other guys that we're talking about jumped center at the beginning of the game? I know we're small, but we still run two guys four inches taller than G out there in the starting lineup. And G jumps center. And wins a good deal of the tips. I don't remember Magette jumping center. I don't remember Dahntay jumping center. G jumps center. Not only does he get up, he gets up quickly.

gadzooks
02-08-2008, 11:24 AM
It's not really a hijack, since the OP asked about his jumping, it's just not in the thread title. Plus, nobody seems to know anything about his wrist, since there apparently hasn't been anything said publicly about it, so we're left with jumping.

3rd Dukie
02-08-2008, 11:52 AM
It's not really a hijack, since the OP asked about his jumping, it's just not in the thread title. Plus, nobody seems to know anything about his wrist, since there apparently hasn't been anything said publicly about it, so we're left with jumping.

Speaking of which, was it Johnny Green or Sy Hugo Green who could pluck a quarter off the top of the backboard? When asked about whether he might possibly ever jump higher than that, his response was something like "who do you think put the quarter up there to start with?" I may not have the details exactly right, but you get the idea. As I recall, he was about 6'5" or so.

Devilsfan
02-08-2008, 12:14 PM
but I sure wish G would stop trying to be Kobe and take shots he can hit.

blueprofessor
02-08-2008, 03:33 PM
Speaking of which, was it Johnny Green or Sy Hugo Green who could pluck a quarter off the top of the backboard? When asked about whether he might possibly ever jump higher than that, his response was something like "who do you think put the quarter up there to start with?" I may not have the details exactly right, but you get the idea. As I recall, he was about 6'5" or so.

:) Good memory,3rd. Johnny Green was only 6' 5'',but he was a great leaper.He averaged over 10 rebounds a year for the Knicks from 1960 through 1964.Even in his 11th season (with Cincinnati) , he averaged 10.8 rebounds a game.
:) Sihugo (Si) Green was a decent rebounder as a guard at 6'2''. He was not anywhere close to Johnny in hops.
:) In regard to taking a coin off the top of the backboard, the coin was probably a silver dollar. UNC's All-America forward-guard, 6'3'' Bob Lewis ,IIRC,allegedly could grab a silver dollar off the top of the backboard.He was a great shooter and a fine rebounder.Saw him at the 1967 FF.
Best regards,Duke fans!

77devil
02-08-2008, 04:04 PM
Speaking of which, was it Johnny Green or Sy Hugo Green who could pluck a quarter off the top of the backboard? When asked about whether he might possibly ever jump higher than that, his response was something like "who do you think put the quarter up there to start with?" I may not have the details exactly right, but you get the idea. As I recall, he was about 6'5" or so.

Don't know about the Greens but David Thompson could do it which I saw in person at a practice at Reynolds.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-08-2008, 04:22 PM
It's not really a hijack, since the OP asked about his jumping, it's just not in the thread title. Plus, nobody seems to know anything about his wrist, since there apparently hasn't been anything said publicly about it, so we're left with jumping.

I heard from a reliable source today that the wrist is sore and stiff, but there is no ligament damage or anything long term. He is expected to play tomorrow and be fine next week for Maryland. He's getting treatment and they hope it feels better tomorrow. In other words, it's day to day.

An interesting story: G's wrist had been hurt and he shot an air ball during the carolina game. At the next time out, the coaches asked him if his wrist hurt too much for him to play. G said "no" and the coaches told him "fine, then don't shoot anymore air balls!". The next play was when G drove the lane for that dunk over 3 carolina defenders.

Indoor66
02-08-2008, 09:18 PM
:) Good memory,3rd. Johnny Green was only 6' 5'',but he was a great leaper.He averaged over 10 rebounds a year for the Knicks from 1960 through 1964.Even in his 11th season (with Cincinnati) , he averaged 10.8 rebounds a game.

He was know as Jumpin' Johnny Green.

sundown
02-08-2008, 09:24 PM
but I sure wish G would stop trying to be Kobe and take shots he can hit.

Gerald shoots nearly 49% from the field and hasn't had a single game where he's been cold but kept gunning anyway. I don't why you have a problem with his shot selection.

Kimist
02-08-2008, 11:55 PM
(Hopefully these links are OK....)

http://www.wral.com/sports/image/2405219/


And then, for some comic relief, here are a couple of HansFlopMeister's recent defensive :D tactics:

http://www.wral.com/sports/image/2405160/

http://www.wral.com/sports/image/2405149/


Enjoy!!

k

Dukeford
02-09-2008, 02:41 AM
Koubek.....I saw him get up there a few times....

One time I swear I think I saw him touch the rim!
No wait, that was Danny Ferry.

bjornolf
02-21-2008, 07:09 AM
I have a silly question about GH and NS. They are obviously being affected by their injuries and not playing to their potential, and playing through it doesn't seem to be helping. If anything, it's making it worse. Maybe they should take a couple weeks off and get healed up. Maybe come back for the UVA game as a gear-up for the UNC game and the run through the tourneys.

I would think that with the Duke medical staff and two weeks to work with, GH could be 100% and NS at least 90-95% by then. It doesn't seem like they're able to contribute anywhere close to their ability in games anyway at this point. If we are a serious tournament team this year, we should be able to win at least 2 of the next 3 without them. Even if we lost all 3 games (which I don't think will happen), but then with them running at full steam we beat UVA and UNC and then won the ACC tourney, we'd be coming into the NCAAs at full strength with a head of steam.

I love both these guys and their games, but I'd rather have them at full strength for the last run than at 50% or less for all the games. Even if we lose our chance at a first seed, wouldn't it be better to go into the NCAAs at full strength and with confidence than limp in hurt? Just a thought.

Matches
02-21-2008, 07:19 AM
That assumes that time off would heal the injuries. I'm not sure any of us know enough about their injuries to know whether that's the case, or whether they're really making them any worse by playing.

bjornolf
02-21-2008, 07:50 AM
but given the deterioration of both their games (Henderson in particular...you can almost follow an exponential decline curve on his game since the injury), I can't see how it could hurt. With GH's trouble as of late, even if he comes back the same as he is now, I don't see how the team would have lost much in the intervening time. If it gives LT and BZ more pt to improve, it might help that way, kind of like other parts of the team got better when Boozer (I think it was CB, somebody correct me if I'm wrong on that...)went down and was stellar when he returned.

I just worry sometimes that if they tell a player that playing won't hurt it more, the player is so eager to get out there and play that it overrides good judgment. What if playing won't hurt it more, but two weeks off would make it 90-100% healed? Which way is better? I realize that this might not be the case here, but having played college football, I HAVE seen cases like that several times. 9 out of 10 times, the player is so juiced up about playing, they let it get the better of them. Heck, I've been guilty of it before. In fact, I've done it both ways, and while it was hard, sitting while healing up was the better play, for me anyway. It's hard for a player to sit when he'd physically capable of playing, and it's hard for a coach to sit an enthusiastic player who is physically capable of playing, but sometimes, it's the better call. Like I said, I certainly can't say that for sure sitting here now, but I hope the team has at least looked at all the options. I know it sounds silly, but sometimes even the best teams don't. Sometimes, if the player is capable of playing and won't hurt it more and wants to play, he plays, even if a couple weeks off would do a world of good.

Matches
02-21-2008, 08:02 AM
I dunno.. you make a fair point of course... but if they're NOT the type of injuries that will be aggravated by playing, or that will heal with time off, I'd rather they be out there. I'd rather have 40% of Henderson than NO Henderson.

CDu
02-21-2008, 08:12 AM
Smith is one game removed from arguably his best game of the season, so I don't think his game has deteriorated due to injury. I agree about Henderson's ineffectiveness being directly linked to the injury.

The question with Henderson is whether or not rest will help more than playing. It's a wrist injury, which doesn't necessarily affect his ability to play defense. If it's only affecting his ability to finish in the lane (his free throw stroke looks really good right now, so I don't know that it is affecting his shot), then who's to say that rest will be much more of a help?

CMS2478
02-21-2008, 08:22 AM
I dunno.. you make a fair point of course... but if they're NOT the type of injuries that will be aggravated by playing, or that will heal with time off, I'd rather they be out there. I'd rather have 40% of Henderson than NO Henderson.

I agree with you that if it is not something that is going to heal with time off, then why sit. However, the way he has played the last three games I would feel better with Scheyer seeing the bulk of the minutes as he did last night. Henderson is playing very timid and if he is hurt that bad then he needs to sit. He looked very timid and scared last night and they either need to sit him or he needs to play aggressive. I don't mean that as a knock on him, bc I don't know the extent of the injury, but if you are going to play......then PLAY!!! If not we need Scheyer or King or someone who can go 100%. At this point 40% of Henderson is hurting the team, not helping. :(

Matches
02-21-2008, 09:06 AM
Hendo only played 19 minutes last night. If he doesn't regain his effectiveness soon I think you'll see his minutes decrease to around 12-15, with Nolan perhaps getting some of those.

greybeard
02-21-2008, 10:37 AM
Wrists are wiley rascals. I hurt mind crankin a drive once; really ripped it and my body lagged behind a bit.

Had the top hand and wrist guy in the DC area. The guy tried everything for a period of like 6 months; immobilization, cortizone, physical therapy, immobization, etc. Never would take an MRI. Said it wouldn't do any good; that he would try to help the pain go away by non surgical means. Only reason for MRI was if surgery was the only option, which he explained would not be good.

It stopped hurting after about six months; does it function the same way as before. I don't hit em anywhere near as long, but that's another story.

Morale of the story: probably the doctors best guess is that there is no percentage for a quick fix, so he plays out the season. In his case, I'm sure that they have done an MRI to see what's what, but that belies the question of what it will take for the pain to stop.

SilkyJ
02-21-2008, 11:16 AM
Wrists are wiley rascals. I hurt mind crankin a drive once; really ripped it and my body lagged behind a bit.

Had the top hand and wrist guy in the DC area. The guy tried everything for a period of like 6 months; immobilization, cortizone, physical therapy, immobization, etc. Never would take an MRI. Said it wouldn't do any good; that he would try to help the pain go away by non surgical means. Only reason for MRI was if surgery was the only option, which he explained would not be good.

It stopped hurting after about six months; does it function the same way as before. I don't hit em anywhere near as long, but that's another story.

Morale of the story: probably the doctors best guess is that there is no percentage for a quick fix, so he plays out the season. In his case, I'm sure that they have done an MRI to see what's what, but that belies the question of what it will take for the pain to stop.

Thats unfortunate. I don't know much about wrist injuries, but it sounds like there is no quick fix so there is little point in resting him.

My only experience with wrist injuries is that once I very mildly sprained my wrist once when I landed on it directly after getting undercut playing ball. I bought one of those splint like things at a sporting goods store and was good to go after a week...sounds like each one is unique and we can only assume that K & Co. know what they are doing.

greybeard
02-21-2008, 11:45 AM
Thats unfortunate. I don't know much about wrist injuries, but it sounds like there is no quick fix so there is little point in resting him.

My only experience with wrist injuries is that once I very mildly sprained my wrist once when I landed on it directly after getting undercut playing ball. I bought one of those splint like things at a sporting goods store and was good to go after a week...sounds like each one is unique and we can only assume that K & Co. know what they are doing.

You heal good Silky; some things are priceless. ;)

HDB
02-21-2008, 11:58 AM
Does anyone know exactly how the Henderson injury occurred? I've read that it happened against UNC, but I don't recall any specific incident.

DukeDevilDeb
02-21-2008, 12:07 PM
Does anyone know exactly how the Henderson injury occurred? I've read that it happened against UNC, but I don't recall any specific incident.

I think it occurred when he blocked Ginyard's shot.

mapei
02-21-2008, 01:37 PM
I don't think the question is whether rest will help G's injury. The real question is whether we are better off with him coming off the bench for limited minutes only. And, right now, the answer to that seems to be an unqualified yes.

Of course, if playing risks hurting him or resting might help some (things I find very likely, as a veteran of wrist injuries myself), then it might be better to sit him altogether.

bjornolf
02-21-2008, 02:15 PM
I'd have to at least partially agree with what mapei said. I've had 12 wrist injuries varying from cysts to tendinitis to mild sprains to severe sprains to hyper-extensions to twists playing everything from tennis to squash to basketball to volleyball to rugby to baseball to throwing shotput. About the only thing I HAVEN'T done to my right wrist is breaking it. I have yet to see a wrist or ankle injury (I've had more sprained and twisted and torn ankles than I can count) on myself or a friend that rest wouldn't help at least somewhat. Yes, there are some that playing won't hurt further, but I haven't seen one that rest won't help at least somewhat. I'm sure there is one out there somewhere, but I haven't seen it or heard of it. Any orthopedists out there?

OldPhiKap
02-21-2008, 02:28 PM
The Duke team probably has a doctor who can answer these questions. Maybe K should call him and find out.

UrinalCake
02-21-2008, 02:41 PM
The Duke team probably has a doctor who can answer these questions. Maybe K should call him and find out.

Seriously people, I mean it's fun to speculate about the team and to talk about these guys like we're all friends and such, but put a little faith in the fact that Coach K and the medical staff know what they're doing. Does anyone really think that K would sacrifice the team's ability to perform in the tournament in order to win some games now?

bjornolf
02-21-2008, 02:52 PM
Seriously people, I mean it's fun to speculate about the team and to talk about these guys like we're all friends and such, but put a little faith in the fact that Coach K and the medical staff know what they're doing. Does anyone really think that K would sacrifice the team's ability to perform in the tournament in order to win some games now?

but unless you've played for a major college or athletic program, you don't understand how it works. A LOT of it is left up to the players. 90% of athletes would play with a broken leg if they could. It's what makes them great. If it's one of those 50/50 things, even if rest would help, they usually let the player decide. And the player will NEVER choose to sit. Medical tests are advanced and they're great in general, but they can't tell the doctor or coach how it is affecting a player. A tendon can swell up very painfully or even just not work right at all, but it can go down before a test can be done and you'll never know. Only the player knows how it affects him/her in game, and with the adrenaline flowing, sometimes THEY can't even tell. I know that K wouldn't do that, but the player might without even realizing it. I have 100% faith in K and the medical staff at Duke. My faith suffers when you ask me to trust a kid, heck, ANY athlete, to sit himself. Just look at all the NFL players that played through concussions and can't function now. They constantly have interviews about how they'd black out in the middle of practice and just thought it was normal and they'd play through it, not wanting to be called sissies. And now they have permanent brain damage. I realize that won't happen to GH. My point is just that if grown men will do that to themselves, you can't expect a kid to know the difference.

bjornolf
02-21-2008, 03:07 PM
but after I mostly tore my MCL and knicked my ACL my first month of my freshman year playing on the scout team for the varsity football team, I went through some nasty rehab and finished out the end of the season on the club team. Realizing that I would never make it on varsity, I switched and was a pretty good player on the club team for 3+ seasons. My knee wasn't too much of a problem after that first season, but I've ALWAYS had bad ankles. Anyway, there were weeks when I'd be on crutches on Monday-Thursday, then I'd get out my 800 mg Motrin bottle I had gotten at the student health center, pop about 5 of those suckers, practice Friday, and pop 5 more to play that weekend. I'd barely be able to get to class on Monday, but I played. And that was for CLUB football. It's not like I was playing to make the NFL and make the big bucks. I did similar things in high school when I tore my rotator cuff in my right shoulder to stay on the varisty squash or baseball team. How much more must GH want to play than I did?

Acymetric
02-21-2008, 03:09 PM
but after I mostly tore my MCL and knicked my ACL my first month of my freshman year playing on the scout team for the varsity football team, I went through some nasty rehab and finished out the end of the season on the club team. Realizing that I would never make it on varsity, I switched and was a pretty good player on the club team for 3+ seasons. My knee wasn't too much of a problem after that first season, but I've ALWAYS had bad ankles. Anyway, there were weeks when I'd be on crutches on Monday-Thursday, then I'd get out my 800 mg Motrin bottle I had gotten at the student health center, pop about 5 of those suckers, practice Friday, and pop 5 more to play that weekend. I'd barely be able to get to class on Monday, but I played. And that was for CLUB football. It's not like I was playing to make the NFL and make the big bucks. I did similar things in high school when I tore my rotator cuff in my right shoulder to stay on the varisty squash or baseball team. How much more must GH want to play than I did?

Anyone watch Friday Night Lights recently? (the movie, not the show that I have to assume is awful even though I never saw it.)

ugadevil
02-21-2008, 03:13 PM
Anyone watch Friday Night Lights recently? (the movie, not the show that I have to assume is awful even though I never saw it.)

The movie is awful compared to the book.

Lauderdevil
02-21-2008, 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by UrinalCake
Seriously people, I mean it's fun to speculate about the team and to talk about these guys like we're all friends and such, but put a little faith in the fact that Coach K and the medical staff know what they're doing. Does anyone really think that K would sacrifice the team's ability to perform in the tournament in order to win some games now?

Reply:
but unless you've played for a major college or athletic program, you don't understand how it works. A LOT of it is left up to the players. 90% of athletes would play with a broken leg if they could. It's what makes them great. If it's one of those 50/50 things, even if rest would help, they usually let the player decide. And the player will NEVER choose to sit.

I think if there's anything we can count on, it's that Coach K has his eyes on the prize, and he's not going to risk tourney time for midseason wins that at this point matter mainly for AP rankings. Fact is, we don't know enough about the injuries even to be able to speculate on the right course of action, because "unlike some other teams," the information hasn't been made public.

What we do know is that we've got a coach who's totally focused on long-term success rather than short-term, and a medical staff that is the best in the nation. I'll go with that.

Jumbo
02-23-2008, 07:15 PM
Coach K finally went public today, so everyone can stop speculating about/hiding information as the case may be:

"Henderson played with a brace protecting his injured right wrist, and Krzyzewski said on his pregame radio show that the sophomore guard will require surgery on it after the season."

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1395955

norduck
02-23-2008, 07:44 PM
Already mentioned in another thread

Jumbo
02-23-2008, 08:18 PM
Already mentioned in another thread

Thank you for contributing so much to this thread. See, people have been asking a lot of questions about Gerald's wrist lately. So, in case they don't stumble upon the information in the other thread, they have a very clearly labeled place called "GERALD'S WRIST" to find relevant information.

rthomas
02-23-2008, 08:23 PM
Get well soon, Gerald! We need you back and healthy! Let's go, Duke.

billybreen
02-23-2008, 08:27 PM
Get well soon, Gerald! We need you back and healthy! Let's go, Duke.

Word to that. Heroic effort to keep playing through pain.

Classof06
02-23-2008, 08:37 PM
Word to that. Heroic effort to keep playing through pain.

Yeah, Gerald played very well today. Better than he's played in 4-5 games. He seems to have more confidence in his stroke and it's showing.

pfrduke
02-23-2008, 08:39 PM
I wonder the doctors reached this conclusion sometime after the Miami game (as we know, K doesn't release injury reports ;) ). If so, it may explain why he was more aggressive this afternoon - he knew what the diagnosis was, what the plan was to fix it, and (presumably) that he couldn't do more harm to it.

Either way, kudos to Gerald for playing through this injury.

Jumbo
02-23-2008, 08:42 PM
I wonder the doctors reached this conclusion sometime after the Miami game (as we know, K doesn't release injury reports ;) ). If so, it may explain why he was more aggressive this afternoon - he knew what the diagnosis was, what the plan was to fix it, and (presumably) that he couldn't do more harm to it.

Either way, kudos to Gerald for playing through this injury.

Nah, he's known he couldn't do more damage for a while.

Cameron
02-23-2008, 08:43 PM
Perhaps I am out of the loop on this, but was Gerald's hampered wrist why he did not start today? Or was Jon placed in the lineup to shake things up a little, since he played so well against Miami?

Thanks in advance. Was just wondering.

Jumbo
02-23-2008, 08:45 PM
Perhaps I am out of the loop on this, but was Gerald's hampered wrist why he did not start today? Or was Jon placed in the lineup to shake things up a little, since he played so well against Miami?

Thanks in advance. Was just wondering.

It's hard to separate one from the other. Gerald hasn't played well since hurting his wrist. He only played 19 minutes against Miami. Coach K clearly was trying to get more production out of that spot, but it's not like Gerald's lack of production was his fault -- he's hurt. That said, he played very well off the bench today.

norduck
02-23-2008, 09:01 PM
Thank you for contributing so much to this thread. See, people have been asking a lot of questions about Gerald's wrist lately. So, in case they don't stumble upon the information in the other thread, they have a very clearly labeled place called "GERALD'S WRIST" to find relevant information.

I like being attentive to all threads !

RelativeWays
02-23-2008, 09:02 PM
If our players can play hurt, they will play...unlike other schools.

Cameron
02-23-2008, 09:11 PM
Thanks for the response, Jumbo. That is pretty much what I would have guessed, but just wanted to find out for sure.

I do agree that we often have some of the toughest guys in the nation. Coach recruits character, that's for sure.

Jumbo
02-23-2008, 09:19 PM
Thanks for the response, Jumbo. That is pretty much what I would have guessed, but just wanted to find out for sure.

I do agree that we often have some of the toughest guys in the nation. Coach recruits character, that's for sure.

Here's K's take:

On the lineup change:
It was partially because of Gerald [Henderson]s injury. Since the injury hes probably averaged six points a game and has seemed distracted a little bit on defense. We may not stay with that line up, but sometimes just a little time off, not a punishment, just Dont think about it, just try to play the best you can with what you have. I thought he did that today. It was probably the thing that I was most pleased with along with Brian Zoubek (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=620667) getting extended minutes. He got 20 minutes.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1396082

gep
02-23-2008, 09:30 PM
Here's K's take:

On the lineup change:
“It was partially because of Gerald [Henderson]’s injury. Since the injury he’s probably averaged six points a game and has seemed distracted a little bit on defense. We may not stay with that line up, but sometimes just a little time off, not a punishment, just ‘Don’t think about it, just try to play the best you can with what you have.’ I thought he did that today. It was probably the thing that I was most pleased with along with Brian Zoubek (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=620667) getting extended minutes. He got 20 minutes.”

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1396082

As Cameron says... Coach K recruits character. "Same thing" happened to Jon... but he's responded as one of the best 6th men. I like what Gerald did today... coming off the "bench"... and Coach K saying it's "not a punishment", which he probably said from relatively "poor" showing in the last few games. I llove this team:D

SilkyJ
02-24-2008, 12:01 AM
Maybe bringing G off the bench will allow him to play more loose...keep his head from getting in the way to take a line from Tin Cup. from what I hear he did that today.

Also, hafta assume Jumbo is right above WRT to the fact that Gerald has known the extent of the injury and what risks he may or may not be running by playing through it (and presumably, almost undoubtedly frankly, there is little risk of further/permanent damage...I say almost undoubtedly cause K just wouldn't let him keep playing if there was any real risk for serious further injury)

Also, saw scheyer had a solid game but that he scored all his points in a 8-10 minute span in the late 1st half. was he keyed on a lot during the 2nd half? just dissapear? were we trying to get Zoubek the ball?

dukie8
02-24-2008, 12:11 AM
i didn't see anything on the link that described the injury. if it's a sprain, then how is there no chance of injuring it further? maybe some of the doctors can pipe up but i've never heard of ligament damage that cannot be further damaged.

NYC Duke Fan
02-24-2008, 03:55 AM
If our players can play hurt, they will play...unlike other schools.

Your innuendo is unfair. We know you are talking about UNC and Ty Lawson. You have no idea as to the extent of his injury. In the past Duke has had players who were injured and did not play

ice-9
02-24-2008, 05:11 AM
Question about Gerald's play in the St. John's game (they weren't showing here in Asia) -- were his points from his usual drive, stop, mid-range jumpers? Or were they easy lay-ups/dunks? I hope it's the former and a sign that he's back...we need him!

MChambers
02-24-2008, 06:25 AM
He hit one 3, and a couple of tough mid-range jumpers while being closely defended. Also had some dunks. Watching the game, I thought maybe his wrist was much better. The announcers also said he looked great in practice Friday.

I'm not surprised by Jumbo's news, however. I am getting tired of having players having surgery after the season, however. Seems to be a regular event the last few years.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-24-2008, 08:31 AM
I am getting tired of having players having surgery after the season, however. Seems to be a regular event the last few years.

Suppose you're told: "MChambers, you have a booboo on your typing hand. You will need surgery to properly correct the problem. You can keep typing for the next 6 weeks on a slightly limited basis, enduring some discomfort and then have the surgery, or you can have the surgery on Tuesday and be ready to go resume "normal" activities by June. Which would you prefer?"

That is why some highly motivated players keep playing and have surgery after the season (Gerald). Others decide that the pain and recovery time during the season would ruin the season and would rather "save" the year eligibility-wise and get a medical red-shirt and have the surgery now (Marty). It's really not hard to understand both decisions. They are best for both the team and the player, at the player's option.

billy
02-24-2008, 09:23 AM
i didn't see anything on the link that described the injury. if it's a sprain, then how is there no chance of injuring it further? maybe some of the doctors can pipe up but i've never heard of ligament damage that cannot be further damaged.

From a sports medicine perspective, I think Jumbo described the scenario perfectly for continuing to play as long as it is safe to do so. Regarding the comment "I've never heard of ligament damage that cannot be further damaged," it is rare that sprains (by definition involving some degree of tearing of a ligament) require surgery. Having already made the determination that his sprain needs surgery, it can't get any worse - it is either stretched to the point of being unstable or it is completely torn, either case being in need of a surgical repair. Not that I have any inside information, but, it is most likely a scapholunate ligament sprain (Google it).

Devilsfan
02-24-2008, 09:24 AM
You want to know ANY players physical condition ask the head coach 8 miles away.

DukePA
02-24-2008, 09:27 AM
You want to know ANY players physical condition ask the head coach 8 miles away.

Yeah, Deputy Dadgum Dawg knows that only his team has "real" injuries. . . all others are just a bunch of bunk, Frickin dadgumit!!

mpj96
02-24-2008, 09:42 AM
Your innuendo is unfair. We know you are talking about UNC and Ty Lawson. You have no idea as to the extent of his injury. In the past Duke has had players who were injured and did not play

You may not like the innuendo, but what Relativeways posted is consistent with what I have heard directly from a Rams Club UNC supporter the night after the VA Tech game -- that Lawson's dad won't let Ty play if he has any pain even though he has been medically cleared.

The UNC supporter that told me this was extremely irritated by this. I have no personal knowledge of Lawson's injury, but it is hard to imagine why a strong UNC supporter would want to make up such a story about such a terrific talent for UNC, particularly since Lawson will be critical to the heels' post season success.

MChambers
02-24-2008, 10:00 AM
Suppose you're told: "MChambers, you have a booboo on your typing hand. You will need surgery to properly correct the problem. You can keep typing for the next 6 weeks on a slightly limited basis, enduring some discomfort and then have the surgery, or you can have the surgery on Tuesday and be ready to go resume "normal" activities by June. Which would you prefer?"

That is why some highly motivated players keep playing and have surgery after the season (Gerald). Others decide that the pain and recovery time during the season would ruin the season and would rather "save" the year eligibility-wise and get a medical red-shirt and have the surgery now (Marty). It's really not hard to understand both decisions. They are best for both the team and the player, at the player's option.

I just wish our players wouldn't get hurt so much! I remember Dockery, Ewing, Nelson, Paulus, Marty and there are probably more I don't remember. Just seems like our backcourt is always less than 100% at the end of the season.

I'm not blaming anything or anyone, except Lady Luck.

Jumbo
02-24-2008, 10:03 AM
i didn't see anything on the link that described the injury. if it's a sprain, then how is there no chance of injuring it further? maybe some of the doctors can pipe up but i've never heard of ligament damage that cannot be further damaged.

When did Coach K say it was a sprain or ligament damage? Not saying you're wrong, just saying I didn't see that in any of yesterday's comments.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-24-2008, 10:17 AM
I just wish our players wouldn't get hurt so much! I remember Dockery, Ewing, Nelson, Paulus, Marty and there are probably more I don't remember. Just seems like our backcourt is always less than 100% at the end of the season.

I'm not blaming anything or anyone, except Lady Luck.

I'm with you on your first and last points!

As to our backcourt (and frontcourt too) hurting at the end of the season, or any of our players, it comes from the bumps and bruises of playing your heart out on every play, diving for loose balls with 20 seconds left at the end of a blowout game (yes, a positive reference to Hanstravel), and just generally leaving it all out on the court every time out. I'm all for that.

Devil in the Blue Dress
02-24-2008, 10:23 AM
I'm not surprised by Jumbo's news, however. I am getting tired of having players having surgery after the season, however. Seems to be a regular event the last few years.

This is a good observation. Is the frequency of such injuries a pattern? Does it have anything to do with the kind of physical play which has emerged since the conference expanded?

Jumbo
02-24-2008, 10:28 AM
This is a good observation. Is the frequency of such injuries a pattern? Does it have anything to do with the kind of physical play which has emerged since the conference expanded?

It's hard to tell whether Duke's # of postseason surgeries is actually frequent without looking at other schools for a comparison. It could just be that it seems like a lot because we follow Duke so much closer than we do everyone else.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-24-2008, 10:28 AM
This is a good observation. Is the frequency of such injuries a pattern?

You mean like the plethora of fifth metatarsal breaks our big guys suffer?

Devil in the Blue Dress
02-24-2008, 10:37 AM
It's hard to tell whether Duke's # of postseason surgeries is actually frequent without looking at other schools for a comparison. It could just be that it seems like a lot because we follow Duke so much closer than we do everyone else.
I agree. As we say at Duke, "It would be interesting" to examine that notion more closely.

AtlDuke72
02-24-2008, 10:38 AM
Your innuendo is unfair. We know you are talking about UNC and Ty Lawson. You have no idea as to the extent of his injury. In the past Duke has had players who were injured and did not play

I completely agree. Injuries are not imaginary and not something a player can just ignore. If you have ever played basketball you know you simply cannot play effectively, if at all, on a sprained ankle. It is very unfair to imply that Lawson should just ignore it and play on. Coach K said it best when he said it was a big game and he expected Lawson to play if he could. The fact is he could not and it is not a character flaw.

CDu
02-24-2008, 06:53 PM
Interestingly, since the UNC game, Gerald has shot 15-20 from the line. He's actually been better in the past five games from the line (75%) than he was before the injury (63%).

MChambers
02-25-2008, 09:48 AM
It's hard to tell whether Duke's # of postseason surgeries is actually frequent without looking at other schools for a comparison. It could just be that it seems like a lot because we follow Duke so much closer than we do everyone else.

I agree. Didn't mean to suggest Duke had any special problem. Also, 15 or 20 years ago it was a lot harder to get information about injuries, recruiting, etc. Today, we tend to know much more about the injuries.

Still wish our players wouldn't get hurt!

Clipsfan
02-25-2008, 11:56 AM
It's hard to tell whether Duke's # of postseason surgeries is actually frequent without looking at other schools for a comparison. It could just be that it seems like a lot because we follow Duke so much closer than we do everyone else.

I think that this is a key point. I follow UCLA basketball very closely as well, and they've actually been even more injury riddled recently than Duke, but we don't notice it as much on this board because it's not our team. I think that there are just always a lot of injuries in the game, and we focus on the ones that affect us the most.

godukecom
02-27-2008, 10:45 PM
FWIW, G told Bob Harris in the postgame interview that his wrist was fine and it wasn't hampering his play in any way. described it as a "sore ligament"

I know hes not going to come out and say "my wrist is killing me," but it is nice to hear it straight from the horse's mouth.

Gerald is a very well-spoken young man, and I think he is beginning to feel more and more confident with that wrist.

Madrasdukie
02-27-2008, 10:51 PM
FWIW, G told Bob Harris in the postgame interview that his wrist was fine and it wasn't hampering his play in any way. described it as a "sore ligament"

I know hes not going to come out and say "my wrist is killing me," but it is nice to hear it straight from the horse's mouth.

Gerald is a very well-spoken young man, and I think he is beginning to feel more and more confident with that wrist.

Thanks for the info. It does feel good to know that G's wrist is "fine" (though I agree with you that he maybe underplaying it).

Also, loved that small emotional exchange between G and K in the second half after G made a play.

ice-9
02-27-2008, 11:02 PM
That's good to hear, but if I remember right, GH didn't penetrate and attempt a mid-range jump shot. He might've made only one jump shot in the game, and it was an open one.

This was a weapon we sorely missed tonight. Even though we won by double digits, a better offensive team than GT might've beaten us tonight with the way we were shooting 3s. Cut off penetration (or at least make it extremely difficult) and hope that Duke misses open 3s -- that's what happened tonight and that's what I fear will happen to us in the tourney.

dukelifer
03-15-2008, 10:41 PM
Well some good news- xrays were negative. K thinks he will need some rest and rehab and should be ready to go.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=384088

gofurman
03-15-2008, 11:20 PM
Well some good news- xrays were negative. K thinks he will need some rest and rehab and should be ready to go.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=384088

needed that...

socaldukie
03-16-2008, 01:20 AM
did you expect anything different?

BCGroup
03-16-2008, 05:42 AM
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=henderson_s_x_rays_are_negative&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

"Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said, because Henderson and other Devils are either ailing or worn out, he wanted to make sure Duke got in some practice time without contact next week as the Devils prepare for NCAA Tournament play."

JasonEvans
03-16-2008, 06:10 AM
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=henderson_s_x_rays_are_negative&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

"Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said, because Henderson and other Devils are either ailing or worn out, he wanted to make sure Duke got in some practice time without contact next week as the Devils prepare for NCAA Tournament play."

I found K's bench use unusual in the game yesterday. At a time of year when almost everyone generally shortens the bench, he gave more minutes to the bench than he has since December. I think Duke was really tired ... or K secretly did not care that much about winning the game. He knew our NCAA seed was locked in as a #2 or #3 (and I contend there is almost no difference at all between those seeds) and he wanted the team to be as rested as possible for the Dance next week.

--Jason "I know, K always wants to win -- but I think maybe he did not mind losing as much as he sometimes does" Evans

grossbus
03-16-2008, 07:03 AM
"I think Duke was really tired"

i think they are too and i am not sure they have enough time to remove the fatigue in some legs (like singler) that is causing the J woes.

BobbyFan
03-16-2008, 07:28 AM
Nice that the x-rays were negative, but I don't think a fracture was a serious consideration anyway. The question is whether and how much his ligament/tendon was affected. We probably won't know until our next game.

bluebear
03-16-2008, 09:56 AM
I found K's bench use unusual in the game yesterday. At a time of year when almost everyone generally shortens the bench, he gave more minutes to the bench than he has since December. I think Duke was really tired ... or K secretly did not care that much about winning the game. He knew our NCAA seed was locked in as a #2 or #3 (and I contend there is almost no difference at all between those seeds) and he wanted the team to be as rested as possible for the Dance next week.

--Jason "I know, K always wants to win -- but I think maybe he did not mind losing as much as he sometimes does" Evans

Agree completely...He was subbing most of the game like he had blue team and a white team...Bobby Knight was on friday talking about his dislike for the conference tournament unless you're on the bubble..Think K had a similar sense about it this year given fatigue and nagging injuries...

houstondukie
03-16-2008, 10:38 AM
Agree completely...He was subbing most of the game like he had blue team and a white team...Bobby Knight was on friday talking about his dislike for the conference tournament unless you're on the bubble..Think K had a similar sense about it this year given fatigue and nagging injuries...

When you really think about, who cares about winning the conference tournament when you are already locked in as one of the top seeds. All you are doing is putting your team through a grueling 3 games in 3 days with potential injuries (Duhon in 2004, Henderson yesterday). Of course you want to win but, at the end of the day, all that matters is the NCAA tournament. So I say, play your bench regardless. Even if you lose, at least your bench gets more post-season experience/confidence (e.g. Zoubek)

ArtVandelay
03-16-2008, 11:22 AM
I think Duke was really tired ... or K secretly did not care that much about winning the game. He knew our NCAA seed was locked in as a #2 or #3 (and I contend there is almost no difference at all between those seeds) and he wanted the team to be as rested as possible for the Dance next week.

I think you may have nailed it here. The thought actually occurred to me as well while watching yesterday. K said something in an interview this week about it being unfortunate that our conference tourney ends on a sunday, giving us one less day of rest. Dykes also made a comment during the broadcast about how Duke had been going 5-on-5 in practice this week, and that it was pretty grueling. The implication seemed to be that they were preparing for next weekend, not this weekend.

As JasonEvans said, you always want to win, but sometimes a loss hurts less. Data points: Kyle was getting a LOT of rest, the 5 for 5 subs, and the fact that we were playing with McClure in there during crunch time. Now, granted, G aggravated his wrist and Dave played well in the tournament, but I thought it was odd as well not to see more heavy reliance on the usual end of game rotation.

Kewlswim
03-16-2008, 11:54 AM
Hi,

In reading these posts, I am starting to get excited about the NCAA Tournament again. I was in a bit of a funk yesterday. Now, I am like, "Bring 'em on." I really love this team and it makes me sad to think that on any given day it could be the last time I get to see them play live as a team again--ever. In some ways I love the end of the year, in others I hate it. I have grown to really like seeing Markie and don't want him to go...guess this happens almost every year. It just seems like more and more the seniors we have are really special kids I will really miss. In seasons past kids came and went and I wasn't as sad, but in the last 7-8 years that has not been the case. Even kids who had NO chance to have their numbers retired I thought added a lot to both the basketball program and the school as a whole.

GO DUKE and 9F for good measure.

dukejim1
03-16-2008, 06:42 PM
I have been away today. Any word on results of Henderson x-ray at Bobcatys arena after the game yesterday?

mnk1010
03-16-2008, 06:44 PM
results were negative

mgtr
03-16-2008, 09:43 PM
And we are a 2 seed playing in Washington DC. Not terrible, not terrible at all. I certainly hope G recovers for this season, and that Singler gets a little rest. We might want to shift around our starters for the first game.

Cameron
03-16-2008, 09:55 PM
When you really think about, who cares about winning the conference tournament when you are already locked in as one of the top seeds. All you are doing is putting your team through a grueling 3 games in 3 days with potential injuries (Duhon in 2004, Henderson yesterday). Of course you want to win but, at the end of the day, all that matters is the NCAA tournament. So I say, play your bench regardless. Even if you lose, at least your bench gets more post-season experience/confidence (e.g. Zoubek)

Well, considering THE ACC Championship banner is on the line every year, I think our conference tournament has tons of significance. I want to win that tournament just as much as I do the entire NCAA. Not more-so, but just as much. The ACC Tournament is one of the finest events in all of college athletics and I'm sure K wants to take the prize home each and every year.

I would agree that K was more than likely trying to get our bench ready for the upcoming Dance should we need them to lend a bigger hand at some point or another, and that by doing so K was also able to help our shooters rest their legs a bit, but there is no way in hell that K was systematically trying to rest up early and tank in the Grand Daddy. Not a chance. His competitive spirit would not allow it. He knows the ACC Tournament is the true ACC Champion and he wants to take that prize home EVERY year, especially when that means Carolina won't be adding another.

I'm sorry, but unless someone has some solid proof that K was deliberately fixing for a loss--whether on a small or very organized level--I'm not buying it.

DevilWolf
03-16-2008, 09:56 PM
I don't think for one second that K wasn't trying to put Duke in the best position to win the ACC tournament. I think us fans who say that are just trying to soften the blow of not winning.

Having said that, the hope is that we can take it easy this week, work on some walkthroughs, some film sessions, some technical work, and get some rest. Then HOPEFULLY the first round game is one where we can rest some guys as well.

CMS2478
03-17-2008, 09:29 AM
I don't think for one second that K wasn't trying to put Duke in the best position to win the ACC tournament. I think us fans who say that are just trying to soften the blow of not winning.

Having said that, the hope is that we can take it easy this week, work on some walkthroughs, some film sessions, some technical work, and get some rest. Then HOPEFULLY the first round game is one where we can rest some guys as well.


I trust Coach K to do what is best for the team, but I really hope they take it easy this week in practice and rest up. By this point in the season the team needs rest and recovery time for their legs more than they need "grueling practices." I really hope Coach K uses all ten guys A LOT against Belmont and if, and I do stress IF, we blow them out I hope he rests some of the guys who look really tired (Markie and Singler).

GopherBlue
03-17-2008, 09:39 AM
When you really think about, who cares about winning the conference tournament when you are already locked in as one of the top seeds. All you are doing is putting your team through a grueling 3 games in 3 days with potential injuries (Duhon in 2004, Henderson yesterday). Of course you want to win but, at the end of the day, all that matters is the NCAA tournament. So I say, play your bench regardless. Even if you lose, at least your bench gets more post-season experience/confidence (e.g. Zoubek)

Roy, is that you? ;)

_Gary
03-17-2008, 09:40 AM
I trust Coach K to do what is best for the team, but I really hope they take it easy this week in practice and rest up. By this point in the season the team needs rest and recovery time for their legs more than they need "grueling practices." I really hope Coach K uses all ten guys A LOT against Belmont and if, and I do stress IF, we blow them out I hope he rests some of the guys who look really tired (Markie and Singler).

Absolutely agree. I guess I'm kinda relieved to know that I wasn't just imagining things when I said the team looked tired in the ACC tournament. That's been such a powder keg over the last several years that I'm really hesitant any more to even bring it up. But it did look to me like the team as a whole, and Singler in particular, were running low on energy. What I can't understand is why it's happening this year. During the majority of the JJ years, and last year, I could easily understand why we were worn out at the end of the season - we had to run our top 6 or 7 into the ground just to try and eak out victories, especially in the ACC. But this year I did feel Coach did a decent job of using the bench. My only complaint in that area was that I thought he did have a long stretch where it seemed like he didn't use the bench quite enough during the second half of games. It wasn't a big deal at all, but it would have been nice to see King get a few minutes during the second half of games, but it just wasn't to be on many nights. But other than that, I thought we had done a decent job in limiting minutes. The only thing I can imagine is that we have more nagging injuries that most know about, and that the practices are just so intense that it drains us. That may be as much mental as physical, but it's the only thing I can think of.

Bottom line: I hope we get sufficient rest and are ready to go on Thursday. We are going to need the guys at full strength to make a legit run at the Final Four.


Gary

The Gordog
03-17-2008, 09:45 AM
I think you may have nailed it here. The thought actually occurred to me as well while watching yesterday. K said something in an interview this week about it being unfortunate that our conference tourney ends on a sunday, giving us one less day of rest. Dykes also made a comment during the broadcast about how Duke had been going 5-on-5 in practice this week, and that it was pretty grueling. The implication seemed to be that they were preparing for next weekend, not this weekend.

As JasonEvans said, you always want to win, but sometimes a loss hurts less. Data points: Kyle was getting a LOT of rest, the 5 for 5 subs, and the fact that we were playing with McClure in there during crunch time. Now, granted, G aggravated his wrist and Dave played well in the tournament, but I thought it was odd as well not to see more heavy reliance on the usual end of game rotation.
I think he does this to some extent in the ACCT every year. You can't shorten your bench until and unless you make it to the final.

Some guys are saying Duke has to hit 40% from 3-pt land to win. Fact is, nost nights 33% will do it. I think he was saving the team for Carolina, not for the NCAAT.

greybeard
03-17-2008, 09:59 AM
Media-driven schedules, more games, higher RPIs whatever the hell that means, and da MONEY in college basketball all contribute to a ridiculous number of injuries in the college game. Young men in the prime of their lives going to the university to mature and develop are being injured in unseemly and unnecessary ways so ESPN, Nike, and, oh, the universities themselves can make more money.

At least K had the good sense to dumb down the schedule this year, which keep the number of injuries down. I'd like to see even more of it in years to come. The NCAA should be ashamed of itself for allowing the number of games to increase, the intensity of play to increase (call the games according to the rules), and for allowing scheduling to be driven by TV demands for basketball 7 nights and 2 days per week, except on holidays when it gets even crazier.

EarlJam
03-17-2008, 10:06 AM
Roy, is that you? ;)

My thoughts exactly. Come on ya'll. We tried hard; we wanted it; we gave it our all; we lost. Clemson beat us.

-EarlJam

Stray Gator
03-17-2008, 10:09 AM
Absolutely agree. I guess I'm kinda relieved to know that I wasn't just imagining things when I said the team looked tired in the ACC tournament. That's been such a powder keg over the last several years that I'm really hesitant any more to even bring it up. But it did look to me like the team as a whole, and Singler in particular, were running low on energy. What I can't understand is why it's happening this year. During the majority of the JJ years, and last year, I could easily understand why we were worn out at the end of the season - we had to run our top 6 or 7 into the ground just to try and eak out victories, especially in the ACC. But this year I did feel Coach did a decent job of using the bench. My only complaint in that area was that I thought he did have a long stretch where it seemed like he didn't use the bench quite enough during the second half of games. It wasn't a big deal at all, but it would have been nice to see King get a few minutes during the second half of games, but it just wasn't to be on many nights. But other than that, I thought we had done a decent job in limiting minutes. The only thing I can imagine is that we have more nagging injuries that most know about, and that the practices are just so intense that it drains us. That may be as much mental as physical, but it's the only thing I can think of. ...Gary

Would you allow for the possibility that the underlying premise of your complaints about K's failure to develop depth during the season was erroneous? Perhaps this season demonstates that those people who disagreed with you by maintaining that the difference between playing the starters 35-38 minutes per game instead of only 27-30 minutes was not a material contributing factor to the apparent end-of-season decline in performance. Players can get "fatigued" for reasons that have little to do with expending physical energy, and late-season losses can be attributed in some measure to other factors--including the ability of opponents to prepare better for what they've seen of Duke's offensive and defensive tendencies throughout the season.

I think this season confirms what many long-time Duke fans here have been saying--that K is perfectly willing to employ a deeper rotation when he has the players who are capable. Maybe it also dispels the notion that Duke has been getting more "worn out" towards the end of the season solely or even mainly because K has used a shorter rotation in recent years. I know that K and JJ were quoted a few years ago as saying the team was tired at the end of the season; but I don't recall them attributing that exhaustion entirely to the extra minutes that the starters played.

CMS2478
03-17-2008, 10:14 AM
Absolutely agree. I guess I'm kinda relieved to know that I wasn't just imagining things when I said the team looked tired in the ACC tournament. That's been such a powder keg over the last several years that I'm really hesitant any more to even bring it up. But it did look to me like the team as a whole, and Singler in particular, were running low on energy. What I can't understand is why it's happening this year. During the majority of the JJ years, and last year, I could easily understand why we were worn out at the end of the season - we had to run our top 6 or 7 into the ground just to try and eak out victories, especially in the ACC. But this year I did feel Coach did a decent job of using the bench. My only complaint in that area was that I thought he did have a long stretch where it seemed like he didn't use the bench quite enough during the second half of games. It wasn't a big deal at all, but it would have been nice to see King get a few minutes during the second half of games, but it just wasn't to be on many nights. But other than that, I thought we had done a decent job in limiting minutes. The only thing I can imagine is that we have more nagging injuries that most know about, and that the practices are just so intense that it drains us. That may be as much mental as physical, but it's the only thing I can think of.

Bottom line: I hope we get sufficient rest and are ready to go on Thursday. We are going to need the guys at full strength to make a legit run at the Final Four.


Gary

I agree with you about the practices being intense. I can't speak for the players because I am not there in practice, but I would guess that since we have 10 really good players all battling for playing-time and pushing each other, the practices are VERY INTENSE!!! Over the course of 4-5 months that would wear down anybody and then throw in the competitive play of the ACC games.

CMS2478
03-17-2008, 10:17 AM
Would you allow for the possibility that the underlying premise of your complaints about K's failure to develop depth during the season was erroneous? Perhaps this season demonstates that those people who disagreed with you by maintaining that the difference between playing the starters 35-38 minutes per game instead of only 27-30 minutes was not a material contributing factor to the apparent end-of-season decline in performance. Players can get "fatigued" for reasons that have little to do with expending physical energy, and late-season losses can be attributed in some measure to other factors--including the ability of opponents to prepare better for what they've seen of Duke's offensive and defensive tendencies throughout the season.

I think this season confirms what many long-time Duke fans here have been saying--that K is perfectly willing to employ a deeper rotation when he has the players who are capable. Maybe it also dispels the notion that Duke has been getting more "worn out" towards the end of the season solely or even mainly because K has used a shorter rotation in recent years. I know that K and JJ were quoted a few years ago as saying the team was tired at the end of the season; but I don't recall them attributing that exhaustion entirely to the extra minutes that the starters played.

Personally, I think the fatigue has to do with intense style of play Duke uses. They play intense defense and give 100% everyday in games and practice. That is bound to wear anybody down. Now I'm not saying I don't like this style, I love it. We just need to get all the rest we can before heading into the tournament so we're playing on fresh legs.

Stray Gator
03-17-2008, 10:29 AM
Personally, I think the fatigue has to do with intense style of play Duke uses. They play intense defense and give 100% everyday in games and practice. That is bound to wear anybody down. Now I'm not saying I don't like this style, I love it. We just need to get all the rest we can before heading into the tournament so we're playing on fresh legs.

I agree that the consistent level of intensity that K demands is a big factor, as well as the pressure of wearing a Duke jersey, which most opponents see as a target deserving their best effort, the pressure of having every game televised and then having their performance scrutinized by media commentators and on Internet message boards, and the added demands of a rigorous academic curriculum. The fact that our players cope with such pressures and demands so well and so gracefully is a big part of what makes us so proud of them. IMO, we should also keep those factors in mind and try to be understanding of what extraordinary challenges confront them whenever we are inclined to criticize.

Devilsfan
03-17-2008, 10:30 AM
I've got a funny feeling after watching G on the bench that he may not be available this week, if at all this tourney. i hope I'm wrong. Also it takes a lot to wear 20 year olds out, but all our shots were short on Saturday. Coach K must be as great a leader as advertised (I think so) because his troups are willing to die for him (and nearly are).

CMS2478
03-17-2008, 10:38 AM
I agree that the consistent level of intensity that K demands is a big factor, as well as the pressure of wearing a Duke jersey, which most opponents see as a target deserving their best effort, the pressure of having every game televised and then having their performance scrutinized by media commentators and on Internet message boards, and the added demands of a rigorous academic curriculum. The fact that our players cope with such pressures and demands so well and so gracefully is a big part of what makes us so proud of them. IMO, we should also keep those factors in mind and try to be understanding of what extraordinary challenges confront them whenever we are inclined to criticize.


Agreed.......and I hope my comments didn't come across critical because that was not my intent at all. It was to simply say I hope we rest up this week before our tournament run. I trust Coach K knows what's best for his team.

greybeard
03-17-2008, 11:05 AM
The loss of the two bigs from the Junior class hurt this team badly. Singler was overworked. Well said SG, very well said.

Saratoga2
03-17-2008, 11:07 AM
I believe David Thompson was 45.

I heard he had the highest vertical ever at 48 so 50 for Gerald seems out of line. Very few guys jump over 40 but Gerald may be in that group. My guess is between 40 and 44 inches.

Saratoga2
03-17-2008, 11:09 AM
Back to the original question in this thread - does anybody know what was up with the wrist? He definitely had tape on it, and it appeared a few times as if he was rubbing/holding his wrist. Not trying to take too big of a leap (sorry, also trying to follow the other theme), but I figure someone on here knows something.

Said he injured the wrist again but xrays showed no breaks, just soreness. They did say the results were preliminary and they were going to have a second look.

_Gary
03-17-2008, 11:51 AM
Would you allow for the possibility that the underlying premise of your complaints about K's failure to develop depth during the season was erroneous? Perhaps this season demonstates that those people who disagreed with you by maintaining that the difference between playing the starters 35-38 minutes per game instead of only 27-30 minutes was not a material contributing factor to the apparent end-of-season decline in performance. Players can get "fatigued" for reasons that have little to do with expending physical energy, and late-season losses can be attributed in some measure to other factors--including the ability of opponents to prepare better for what they've seen of Duke's offensive and defensive tendencies throughout the season.

I think this season confirms what many long-time Duke fans here have been saying--that K is perfectly willing to employ a deeper rotation when he has the players who are capable. Maybe it also dispels the notion that Duke has been getting more "worn out" towards the end of the season solely or even mainly because K has used a shorter rotation in recent years. I know that K and JJ were quoted a few years ago as saying the team was tired at the end of the season; but I don't recall them attributing that exhaustion entirely to the extra minutes that the starters played.

Actually, other than my few remarks here at the end of the season, I've said virtually nothing about lack of depth this season. So I believe you are talking more about past seasons when it comes to me personally.

I don't think the answer is as simple as either/or. First off, Coach K seems to have been concerned with too many minutes because he's made the comments himself about trying to limit practices and such. So there's something to that. And during the JJ years, as you mentioned, both Coach K and JJ mentioned being worn down near the end of multiple seasons. On top of that, more than once there were comments at the beginning of a season about looking forward to more depth. So I think it would be a mistake to completely dismiss the bench/depth issue out of hand. And for what it's worth, I never thought it was a big issue for Duke until the JJ years. It may have been mentioned by me, rarely, before the JJ years. But I never saw a "trend" or anything like that.

Having said that, of course there's more to it than just depth. I think we've all hit on it with the discussion of intensity and style of play, as well as the mental stress that comes from playing every game on TV and being the most hated team in the nation, bar none. All of that has to contribute. And I believe Coach K is doing his best to adjust, year by year, to those issues.

But I do think there is a difference between playing 28 minutes a night versus 38, especially with the style of play we employ. Our defense is non-stop and every extra minute out on the court means that much more energy being exerted. So while minutes played/depth is clearly not the only issue, I'm not comfortable saying it's never an issue. But to be honest, I'd rather not beat this horse any more.


Gary

gep
03-17-2008, 11:26 PM
Said he injured the wrist again but xrays showed no breaks, just soreness. They did say the results were preliminary and they were going to have a second look.

I"ve been wanting to mention this... In Coach K's post-game interview, he said (without benefit of test results) that Gerald was more scared than hurt. This kinda reminded me of when he first hurt his wrist, his next few games were not good. But, it seemed that as soon as all tests were done and he apparently knew is situation, he started playing like the player of old again... without worry. Hopefully, with the current test results that he is injury is not "trouble", he can play as his normal self through the NCAA.

BD80
03-18-2008, 06:52 AM
I heard he had the highest vertical ever at 48 so 50 for Gerald seems out of line. Very few guys jump over 40 but Gerald may be in that group. My guess is between 40 and 44 inches.

DY's 45 was a standing jump. Are the current measures with a stride or perhaps a running start? That could explain the difference.

blueprofessor
03-18-2008, 11:46 AM
DY's 45 was a standing jump. Are the current measures with a stride or perhaps a running start? That could explain the difference.
************************************************** *********
...of a backboard taking only ONE step before he jumped (witnessed by 3 fellow players,including a future Kansas AD and also a 76er trainer ).

One link to the 50" :

http://www.nbdlalbuquerque.com/warri...amberlain.html
The vertical has been reported by several sources.This one is by the NBA beat reporter for USA Today.It appears on the Golden State Warriors Official Website.

Best regards.:)

Indoor66
03-18-2008, 12:06 PM
************************************************** *********
...of a backboard taking only ONE step before he jumped (witnessed by 3 fellow players,including a future Kansas AD and also a 76er trainer ).

One link to the 50" :

http://www.nbdlalbuquerque.com/warri...amberlain.html
The vertical has been reported by several sources.This one is by the NBA beat reporter for USA Today.It appears on the Golden State Warriors Official Website.

Best regards.:)

That link leads to a page that has been removed. Any additional link or info?

Indoor66
03-18-2008, 12:18 PM
I Googled Wilt Chamberlain + 50" vertical and found a number of sites. These two were the best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OugQ16KaR50 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OugQ16KaR50)
http://www.nba.com/history/chamberlain_50.html (http://www.nba.com/history/chamberlain_50.html)

From the history site Q & A session with Wilt:


"Q: How did that feel to know that you were basically unstoppable? A: That is something that I really loved. I loved the fact that no one could really block my shot. I jumped so high that there was nothing that they could do. When you have no fear, it's just going to make you much better at what you're doing. My ability to jump so high gave me such an advantage. People say "OK, he's 7-foot tall, he should be able to do whatever he wants," but I'm also getting 50 inches off the ground on a vertical! (laughs) This puts me so far above people. So, while they were reaching for the ball this way, I was going on top of them and just taking it out of their hands. It gave me a sense of superiority. What hurt me was that I wanted to be a consummate basketball player, and I wanted to be able to shoot the ball instead of just taking it to the basket and dunk it like I should have. I was shooting fadeaway shots, hook shots, finger-rolls... whatever came to my mind that I thought would be pleasing. A lot of times that was a negative more than a positive. If I just went out and took it to the basket every time I'd have averaged 70 or 80 points a game."

blueprofessor
03-18-2008, 01:05 PM
I Googled Wilt Chamberlain + 50" vertical and found a number of sites. These two were the best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OugQ16KaR50 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OugQ16KaR50)
http://www.nba.com/history/chamberlain_50.html (http://www.nba.com/history/chamberlain_50.html)

From the history site Q & A session with Wilt:


"Q: How did that feel to know that you were basically unstoppable? A: That is something that I really loved. I loved the fact that no one could really Rblock my shot. I jumped so high that there was nothing that they could do. When you have no fear, it's just going to make you much better at what you're doing. My ability to jump so high gave me such an advantage. People say "OK, he's 7-foot tall, he should be able to do whatever he wants," but I'm also getting 50 inches off the ground on a vertical! (laughs) This puts me so far above people. So, while they were reaching for the ball this way, I was going on top of them and just taking it out of their hands. It gave me a sense of superiority. What hurt me was that I wanted to be a consummate basketball player, and I wanted to be able to shoot the ball instead of just taking it to the basket and dunk it like I should have. I was shooting fadeaway shots, hook shots, finger-rolls... whatever came to my mind that I thought would be pleasing. A lot of times that was a negative more than a positive. If I just went out and took it to the basket every time I'd have averaged 70 or 80 points a game."
************************************************** ***
for the one step and touch the top of the backboard: page 47 of "Wilt", by Robert Cherry,foreword by Jerry West,called by the late Dick Schapp "the definitive biography...."

Re Wilt's 50" vertical:Other source,besides the Golden State site and story by the NBA beat writer that was still up a month ago---good article,sorry it is down--maybe in archives) and your sources,Indoor :
Oxford U's "American National Biography", in the Chamberlain section page 106.

Apparently, Wilt,according to the Cherry bio,high jumped 6'9",as well.

The videos you provided reminded me of the photo of Wilt I mentioned earlier on DBR that appeared in the early '60s of Wilt's dunking a ball off a Guy Rodgers pass on a fast break.I have never seen anyone with a bball so high above the rim!

I always got the impression that Wilt jumped as high as he needed---if he had wanted 55" or more,given that he could put his hand on top of the backboard with a 1 step start, he could ,and probably did, do it on a running start!

Best regards.:D

CDu
03-18-2008, 01:17 PM
I Googled Wilt Chamberlain + 50" vertical and found a number of sites. These two were the best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OugQ16KaR50 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OugQ16KaR50)
http://www.nba.com/history/chamberlain_50.html (http://www.nba.com/history/chamberlain_50.html)

From the history site Q & A session with Wilt:


"Q: How did that feel to know that you were basically unstoppable? A: That is something that I really loved. I loved the fact that no one could really block my shot. I jumped so high that there was nothing that they could do. When you have no fear, it's just going to make you much better at what you're doing. My ability to jump so high gave me such an advantage. People say "OK, he's 7-foot tall, he should be able to do whatever he wants," but I'm also getting 50 inches off the ground on a vertical! (laughs) This puts me so far above people. So, while they were reaching for the ball this way, I was going on top of them and just taking it out of their hands. It gave me a sense of superiority. What hurt me was that I wanted to be a consummate basketball player, and I wanted to be able to shoot the ball instead of just taking it to the basket and dunk it like I should have. I was shooting fadeaway shots, hook shots, finger-rolls... whatever came to my mind that I thought would be pleasing. A lot of times that was a negative more than a positive. If I just went out and took it to the basket every time I'd have averaged 70 or 80 points a game."

A personal statement of a 50-inch vertical doesn't sound like valid scientific evidence. If Wilt could jump 50 inches, his head would be more than a foot above the rim. I'll be honest - that's just unrealistic. Not saying he's not a freakish athlete, but having his head more than a foot above the rim? And that's not to mention the absurdity of the idea that he could jump nearly that high from a standstill.

That's not meant to be a slap at Wilt. I think these "estimated" verticals are either miscalculated or just made up for a lot of players.

blueprofessor
03-18-2008, 02:30 PM
A personal statement of a 50-inch vertical doesn't sound like valid scientific evidence. If Wilt could jump 50 inches, his head would be more than a foot above the rim. I'll be honest - that's just unrealistic. Not saying he's not a freakish athlete, but having his head more than a foot above the rim? And that's not to mention the absurdity of the idea that he could jump nearly that high from a standstill.

That's not meant to be a slap at Wilt. I think these "estimated" verticals are either miscalculated or just made up for a lot of players.

************************************************** ********
...1. could touch the top of the backboard with a 1-step start(there are witnesses to that in the cited bio,above);2.could high jump 6'9"? David Thompson needed a running start to touch the top of the backboard and,as fine a triple-jumper as he was, could not high jump 6'9".Could a man who did not need a running start to touch the top of the backboard jump 6" higher with a running start than Thompson's 44" max?
The beat writer for the Golden State Warriors and other sources (see Oxford's American biography mentioned above) attested to the 50".I don't think there is much doubt that Wilt could do 50" or higher--with no disrespect to your always facile mind and posts,CDu.

Others, much shorter and not as strong and perhaps lacking Wilt's 4.4 40 yard explosiveness, have had 44" verticals.Wilt was one of the very greatest,strongest, and most explosive running and jumping machines of the 20th c.He was the greatest rebounder in basketball history.

Personal memories,if you will permit:

I saw a photo in Sport magazine circa 1963(mentioned in an earlier post) that looked like Wilt's head was very high above the rim (that is why I taped that photo to my wall at school).He had been sprinting on the fast break and dunked on a Guy Rodgers pass.

In the game Wilt scored 100 vs. the Knicks (March 2,1962,Hershey,PA), I recall reading an account ,as the Knicks kept fouling to prevent Wilt from scoring baskets, of Wilt dunking the ball with 2 Knicks players holding on to him.That is a ton,no pun intended, of thrust!



Best regards.:D

yancem
03-18-2008, 06:16 PM
************************************************** ********
...1. could touch the top of the backboard with a 1-step start(there are witnesses to that in the cited bio,above);2.could high jump 6'9"? David Thompson needed a running start to touch the top of the backboard and,as fine a triple-jumper as he was, could not high jump 6'9".Could a man who did not need a running start to touch the top of the backboard jump 6" higher with a running start than Thompson's 44" max?
The beat writer for the Golden State Warriors and other sources (see Oxford's American biography mentioned above) attested to the 50".I don't think there is much doubt that Wilt could do 50" or higher--with no disrespect to your always facile mind and posts,CDu.

Others, much shorter and not as strong and perhaps lacking Wilt's 4.4 40 yard explosiveness, have had 44" verticals.Wilt was one of the very greatest,strongest, and most explosive running and jumping machines of the 20th c.He was the greatest rebounder in basketball history.

Personal memories,if you will permit:

I saw a photo in Sport magazine circa 1963(mentioned in an earlier post) that looked like Wilt's head was very high above the rim (that is why I taped that photo to my wall at school).He had been sprinting on the fast break and dunked on a Guy Rodgers pass.

In the game Wilt scored 100 vs. the Knicks (March 2,1962,Hershey,PA), I recall reading an account ,as the Knicks kept fouling to prevent Wilt from scoring baskets, of Wilt dunking the ball with 2 Knicks players holding on to him.That is a ton,no pun intended, of thrust!



Best regards.:D

Your argument makes no sense. It completely ignores the fact that Wilt was 9" taller than Thompson and that doesn't factor in Wilts longer arms and therefore higher reach. If Thompson needed a 44" vertical to reach the top of the backboard at 6'4", Wilt would need at least 9" few inches to accomplish the same thing. Don't get me wrong, Wilt was an amazing athlete and I have know idea what his actual vertical leap was, but I highly doubt that it a guy who was 7'1" would need a 50" vertical leap to reach the top of the backboard.

BCGroup
03-19-2008, 07:08 AM
I"ve been wanting to mention this... In Coach K's post-game interview, he said (without benefit of test results) that Gerald was more scared than hurt. This kinda reminded me of when he first hurt his wrist, his next few games were not good. But, it seemed that as soon as all tests were done and he apparently knew is situation, he started playing like the player of old again... without worry. Hopefully, with the current test results that he is injury is not "trouble", he can play as his normal self through the NCAA.

That sounds more than reasonable. I know after I injured my ankle, I was much more careful anytime I even tweaked it. I'm looking forward to a fresh start and a new city, and that all our players look rested and confident!

blueprofessor
03-19-2008, 07:22 AM
Your argument makes no sense. It completely ignores the fact that Wilt was 9" taller than Thompson and that doesn't factor in Wilts longer arms and therefore higher reach. If Thompson needed a 44" vertical to reach the top of the backboard at 6'4", Wilt would need at least 9" few inches to accomplish the same thing. Don't get me wrong, Wilt was an amazing athlete and I have know idea what his actual vertical leap was, but I highly doubt that it a guy who was 7'1" would need a 50" vertical leap to reach the top of the backboard.
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...but the point was he was a great,powerful,almost effortless jumper who could touch the top of the backboard with only a 1-step approach.The people who saw him do it were certainly impressed and they included an NBA trainer familiar with the great leapers of the day,as well as a future Kansas AD.

In this thread and another, sources have been listed that assert Wilt had a 50" vertical. I have not read a source that questioned his 50" vertical.

On the other hand, any person has the freedom to post an "opinion" that Wilt did not have a 50" vertical,even though there is no authority beyond that opinion.
With no offense , I believe the NBA beat writer and the other sources.


Wilt was a phenomenal athlete and any discussion about what he could accomplish has the salutary effect of introducing the Big Dipper to younger basketball fans.Every post I have read on the DBR about him acknowledges what an incredible athlete he was.Since one of the great pleasures in my life in the 1960s was watching Wilt and Russell play, I am appreciative of the reverence of younger fans for those players.

Best regards.:D

gofurman
03-19-2008, 07:59 AM
I thought this was about Gerald's wrist...

Any news - anyone seen him around?

CMS2478
03-19-2008, 09:10 AM
I thought this was about Gerald's wrist...

Any news - anyone seen him around?

You beat me.......I was going to ask how any of this pertained to Gerald's wrist. I too, am interested in hearing the latest if anyone has anything new. Once again, hopefully we will win big tommorrow and can rest G, Markie, and Singler particularly.

blueprofessor
03-19-2008, 09:13 AM
I thought this was about Gerald's wrist...

Any news - anyone seen him around?

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....http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080318/NRSTAFF/803180304

Most of the thread is about Gerald's injury. Posts 141-144,146,and others address fatigue of the team.A few review vertical jumping regarding post 148,IIRC.

Best regards.:D